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Author Topic: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results  (Read 33235 times)

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TrojH

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #150 on: December 28, 2012, 01:29:10 am »
+1

Mith, it's been nice knowing you.  ;)
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DG

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #151 on: December 28, 2012, 06:09:27 am »
0

For Rob vs Stef :

Game 2 - Harvests comes in here surely sometime for grand markets, for Rob at least?
Game 3 - Caravans are still ok here. You can still get more play from less actions when you start with a larger hand size.
Game 5 - The masquerade deck can take a courtyard, caches, and banks.
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mith

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #152 on: December 28, 2012, 11:44:22 am »
+4

Mith, it's been nice knowing you.  ;)

Fun fact: I've gone up 13 levels since the tournament seeding was determined... and am still 14 levels below -Stef-.
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Zem

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #153 on: January 02, 2013, 06:56:38 pm »
+3

Chapel Division; Round 4; Match BC; Jonts26 - Zem

Results:       Zem:4 - jonts26:2


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-150401-1bc4410d.html     Zem:47 - jonts26:25
cards in supply: Apothecary, Council Room, Cutpurse, Festival, Mandarin, Noble Brigand, Peddler, Pirate Ship, Potion, Stash, and Watchtower
I absolutely love Apothecary, and this was *the* board for it. I opened Watchtower/Potion, and was lucky enough to draw them together on turn 3 and topdeck an Apothecary for turn 4, which gave me just enough copper to buy a festival.
Turn 5 - another hand with watchtower, potion and 2 coppers. I am not sure whether I deserved this win, or if it was all due to the RNG.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-151103-06f84af1.html     Zem:53 - jonts26:52
cards in supply: Colony, Farming Village, Menagerie, Platinum, Silk Road, Spice Merchant, Throne Room, Trade Route, Trading Post, Treasure Map, Village, and Warehouse
I open Warehouse / Spice Merchant, with the plan to get two Treasure Maps asap. Jonts26 opens Silver / Spice Merchant, and a turn 3 Trading Post but goes for Treasure Maps soon after.
In the end the game comes down to a single estate.
One thing I really would like to know is the best way to deal with the 4 gold hand from the treasure maps in a colony game. I went for Platinum, jonts26 bought a Colony instead. Not sure what was the better choice



http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-151446-2a756841.html   jonts26:38 - Zem:24
cards in supply: Adventurer, Apprentice, Coppersmith, Crossroads, Embassy, Fortune Teller, Oasis, Treasury, Wishing Well, and Witch
Curse war; jonts26 gets two witches, I only one, mostly due to lack of opportunity. I get a few Oases, not sure if that was a good idea. The Oases help get through the bad cards faster, but they can be drawn dead by the witch.


http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-151820-bcc9221c.html   jonts26:34 - Zem:32
cards in supply: Adventurer, Cartographer, Chapel, Duchess, Jack of All Trades, Navigator, Quarry, Shanty Town, Thief, Wishing Well♦, and Young Witch
Basic Chapel / Jack of All Trades.  Jonts26 get a Young Witch later, which serves him well, possibly the deciding factor. I admit I never considered Young Witch here, and I thought Chapel / JoAT would be better than Silver/JoAT in any case, probably wrong thought.



http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-152239-b9b9880e.html   Zem:45 - jonts26:35
cards in supply: Courtyard, Crossroads, Harvest, Jester, Masquerade, Nobles, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Tactician, Tribute, and Wishing Well
This was a Masquerade vs. Courtjard fight.
I open Masquerade/Silver, jonts26 Courtyard/Silver.
I get a second Masquerade far too early (turn 3), and suffer for it, since it collides several times. At one point I pass my second masquerade over to jonts26, just to get it back some time later. A silver would really have been the better choice. I probably should have gotten a Courtyard too, perhaps I am overestimating the power of Masquerade.



http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/02/game-20130102-153109-d49476e6.html   Zem:5 - jonts26:4
cards in supply: Apothecary, Bridge, Cache, Caravan, Council Room, Great Hall, Merchant Ship, Navigator, Potion, Scheme, and Worker's Village
What can I say, I cannot resist Apothecary.
We both build a Bridge engine, powered by Worker's Villages, Schemes, Caravans, and in my case Apothecaries, jonts26: council room. Piles are empty before either of our engines are big enough for the mega-province turn, and this could really have gone either way. The last turn took me a while because I kept counting the remaining buys and points in my head and losing track, because i was too nervous and jittery.


Thanks a lot for the fun games, and especially thanks to jonts23 and all the others for organizing this thing, it has been a blast so far!


and a fun board message I got just now:
Quote
Warning - while you were typing 155 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 07:57:14 pm by Zem »
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jonts26

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #154 on: January 02, 2013, 07:13:14 pm »
+1

Zem beat me 4-2. He's got the links above. Overall, I played rather poorly. Maybe I should have played some practice games after a week+ inactive.

Game 1: Watchtower/Festival. He adds in apothecary which is probably the right move. My cutpurse open was stupid. But I have really bad luck connecting festival and watchtower and getting a critical mass of those cards. Ends up fairly lopsided.

Game 2: If it was just provicnes, I would have gone more standard warehouse/Treasure map. Colonies made me think about getting a little more enginey, but maybe not the best move. Anyway I came $1 short of winning.

Game 3: Witch/Apprentice/Big money. He gets oases and I don't. I didn't want them being drawn dead with witch, though I think either way is going to be about the same. I guess I probably got luckier here to win. Boring game.

Game 4: Without Young Witch this is a jack/BM game. With the witch I think Jack/Chapel is better. Zem gets terrible early luck and I get some bad late luck, but not bad enough.

Game 5: My question is which is better - Courtyard/BM or masq/Courtyard/BM. Zem goes just masq/BM, which I'm positive is worse than either CY option. I go just CY/BM and end up losing. Poor luck.

Game 6: Bridge megaturn here. He gets apothecary and I don't again. It might be the best move here to throw it in. But the board is clearly a bridge megaturn engine that's likely going to end on piles if both players go for it. I thought I had the end game under control but he pulls out exactly enough to pile out with the lead.

Thanks for the series and good luck!
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DG

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #155 on: January 02, 2013, 08:21:49 pm »
0

Quote
My question is which is better - Courtyard/BM or masq/Courtyard/BM

Simulator gives masquerade/silver+courtyard the edge, assuming the nobles arrive too late to change anything.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #156 on: January 02, 2013, 08:25:16 pm »
0

Quote
My question is which is better - Courtyard/BM or masq/Courtyard/BM

Simulator gives masquerade/silver+courtyard the edge, assuming the nobles arrive too late to change anything.
Ah, but a few questions. First, are you using standard courtyard bot? Because it should change a little. Second, how close? Because both courtyard and masquerade have nontrivial decisions, so if it's very close, there is some wiggle room.
Having said that, I *think* masq first is a little better, but it ought to be close.

jonts26

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #157 on: January 02, 2013, 09:05:40 pm »
0


One thing I really would like to know is the best way to deal with the 4 gold hand from the treasure maps in a colony game. I went for Platinum, jonts26 bought a Colony instead. Not sure what was the better choice

If I connected first, I probably take plat like you did. When I hit, it was a little later and I felt I needed to push some points earlier so went for Colony. It's possible we both did the right thing.
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #158 on: January 02, 2013, 11:28:12 pm »
0

Quick thoughts on Zem-Jonts:
Game 3 oasis can't be good. You can draw it dead, but the cycling isn't worth the lost money anyway in this kind of deck - really you'd want it in an engine...
Game 5 is a real shame, because courtyard should pretty clearly beat masq, which itself is a bit worse than double masq. And nobles I would expect to exacerbate this...
Game 6 something is up. I think you might both have invested a little too much in cheap engine components, because with such 3 pile endings likely, you can actually buy some mid-level green as a defense to them being able to get more components, because then YOU can end it. But also, I don't think either of you was super close to getting a significant points turn. Particularly jonts. But maybe I'm just insane.

jonts26

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #159 on: January 03, 2013, 12:34:22 am »
0

Game 6 something is up. I think you might both have invested a little too much in cheap engine components, because with such 3 pile endings likely, you can actually buy some mid-level green as a defense to them being able to get more components, because then YOU can end it. But also, I don't think either of you was super close to getting a significant points turn. Particularly jonts. But maybe I'm just insane.

I was certainly behind this game and I would have bought some green, but I didn't think he'd have enough to win it that turn. I miscalculated there obviously. Reviewing the game, I could have played it quite a bit better. I needed more schemes to allow me to set up my turns better. I had a number of weak turns which slowed me down a lot.
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dondon151

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #160 on: January 03, 2013, 11:53:08 pm »
+4

(11) dondon151 wins the set against (35) michaeljb, 4-1-1

Set rules: PCE off, official PC on, identical starting hands, michaeljb gets first player in game 1 (higher location in bracket).

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/03/game-20130103-185135-13e09d86.html
Bridge, Counting House, Courtyard, Explorer, Fishing Village, Ironworks, Mint, Native Village, Salvager, and Treasure Map

dondon151 12 - 18 michaeljb

I saw NV/Bridge immediately. I'm not sure what michaeljb saw with his opening, but he saw a sort of Bridge engine at some point anyway and transitioned very quickly into that with a turn 3 Mint that trashed 6 Coppers. I always get subpar luck when playing NV/Bridge and end up never being able to buy more than 2 Bridges until very late, and by then I was behind by a lot. On my last turn I was thinking "yes I can 3 pile and end the game in a tie," only to realize that emptying 2 piles is not emptying 3 piles. Not my brightest moment.

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/03/game-20130103-190027-73da94d2.html
Cartographer, Cellar, Counting House, Laboratory, Militia, Mine, Royal Seal, Smithy, Venture, and Workshop

The cards were specified because I botched the original settings on the match proposition.

dondon151 41 - 33 michaeljb

This looked like a really weak board. My plan was to open with a Militia, grab a Mine, and then get 1 Gold and Ventures with $5-7. We both got stuck at 3 Provinces, and after the Duchies split 5-3 in my favor, it became clear that michaeljb's best option at winning was to get the last 2 Provinces. We both ended up trying to rebuild a little bit, which resulted in the Ventures emptying, but neither of us managed to get another Province before the Estates piled out.

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/03/game-20130103-191459-49e3e2ed.html
Governor, Hamlet, Horn of Plenty, Possession, Potion, Royal Seal, Scheme, Talisman, Trade Route, Treasury, and Tunnel

dondon151 30 - 30 michaeljb

I dunno how I managed to eke out a tie in this game as second player and hitting $4/$4 on turns 3 and 4. I get to Possession first but michaeljb wins the Province split. On my last Possession turn I think I actually had the chance to end the game on a win with Gold -> Province and buying Duchy + Estate, but I probably overlooked it.

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/03/game-20130103-193234-02b55098.html
Ambassador, Chancellor, City, Colony, Harvest, Highway, Island, Lookout, Moat, Platinum, Quarry, and Treasure Map

dondon151 50 - 38 michaeljb

This game was an Amb slog with some interesting decisions. I get ahead in Amb tennis but then hit a series of bad shuffles where my Ambs collide without very many cards to return, and michaeljb ends up pulling ahead in the midgame. The difference here were my 3 Moats, which blocked a number of opponent Amb plays and kept my deck from bloating during the greening phase whereas michaeljb's deck stalled with 4 of 5 Cities and 2 Platinums in his discard, letting me break PCR and win.

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/03/game-20130103-194352-ca4d490f.html
Cellar, Ill-Gotten Gains, Ironworks, Margrave, Navigator, Outpost, Peddler, Stash, Tactician, and Venture

dondon151 22 - 19 michaeljb

I postulated from the outset that this would be a bit more complicated than IGGs into Duchies, and I detoured for a Margrave, a Tactician, and a Gold at some point. Meanwhile, michaeljb forgets to open Navigator and hits $4/$4 on turns 3 and 4. I think that my general plan to go for some Provinces was a good decision, as I manage to grab 3 of them, and michaeljb graciously piles out the last IGG when he doesn't really have much of a choice to come back.

Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/03/game-20130103-200349-e9bf5fbd.html
Courtyard, Horse Traders, Masquerade, Peddler, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Scrying Pool, Spice Merchant, Spy, Stables, and Vineyard

dondon151 32 - 27 michaeljb

We open differently but aim for the same end result. Despite delaying his Potion, michaeljb actually manages to get ahead of me on the SPs. With only terminal +buy and no +actions, I stop buying Actions once I hit 4 VP Vineyards and just focus on Vineyards and Provinces. I get a nearly disastrous turn when I fail to draw any SPs, but I find my HT with 2 Potions in hand. The resulting favorable Vineyard split contributes in part to my win.

Thanks to michaeljb for the games!
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michaeljb

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #161 on: January 05, 2013, 03:00:48 pm »
+2

I'm not sure what michaeljb saw with his opening

I saw pretty much what happened (though I didn't expect it go quite so well): Courtyard should help a hand of Salvager/4 Coppers to not happen, and should also let me get 5 Coppers to trash with a Mint buy. Fortunately I got both, topdecking an Estate and ending up with 6 Coppers to trash to Mint. With the trashing of Salvager and Mint, I figured Fishing Village/Bridge was the way to go from the start.
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-Stef-

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #162 on: January 05, 2013, 03:33:02 pm »
+4

Mith & I just finished our round 5 match. 4-0 for me :)

This match was over very quickly. No really fascinating kingdoms happening, or maybe I just didn't notice them.

Counting House, Crossroads, Horn of Plenty, Horse Traders, Mining Village, Minion, Scout, Secret Chamber, Treasury, and Warehouse
We both opened Silver/Horse Traders and went for the Minion mirror. I looked at an alternative for a while, because Horn Of Plenty megaturn is somewhere hidden in there, but I really don't see it happening. If you don't contest Minions you'll have to start it up from a four card hand, and crossroads is already very hard to start with from a 5 card hand. Plus uncontested Minions is very reliable/strong.
I got lucky on t3/4, hitting $5 both for two minions. He got $4/$6, and picked up another Horse Traders and a Gold. I agree with the first but not the second. I won the minion split 6-4, but he loaded up on Horse Traders (4) and they brought him a long way. In fact he got ahead with a double duchy turn 16, and I felt compelled to break PPR. Fortunately he got only $4 on his next turn and I hit $8 again.

One silly tactical thing: on my turn 7 my hand is minion, estate, horse traders, 2 copper. I want to buy a minion, so I really only need the Horse Traders. Silly me playing the minion and of course he holds two Horse Traders of his own :-[

City, Gardens, Menagerie, Moat, Nobles, Pearl Diver, Potion, Secret Chamber, Village, Vineyard, and Watchtower
This kingdom was mostly noted for the things it was missing: no +buy, no gaining, no attacks, no destruction. We opened an identical 5/2 here, and I still don't really know how to play this. BigMoney-Watchtower is not known for it's superior strength, but now that I look at it that just may have beaten our plans. The problem with BigMoney is that you may or may not be in time against the City stack. You'll have to get all the provinces because of vineyards and/or gardens once the cities go up. Anyway... we both opened with a City and not before long it was clear they'd run out. He spend a turn more investing on money though, and once we split the cities 5-5 we both had a kind of unstoppable deck. With enough money anyway I had a clean 1 turn advantage. Since we both had the same amount of 'fizzling' turns after that, so I won. He broke PPR right after I had a very bad turn; may not have been the best plan but he was behind anyway.

Ambassador, Chancellor, Conspirator, Herbalist, Minion, Monument, Nobles, Oracle, Scout, and Wharf
A good old ambassador war. He opened amb/silver into amb, I went for amb/amb into silver. But my ambs didn't nicely spread around (0 on t3, 1 on t4, 2 on t5) so it wasn't immediately over. After turn 5, he bought 3 silvers to my 1. I like not buying silvers early on in an amb war. Often it's better not to do it even when you have $3, although that didn't happen to me here.
Somehow on turn 6 we were both faced with a $5 decision. He went for the Minion and I went for the Wharf. Even though that clashes with amb when they're in the same hand, amb loves big hand sizes so much that I thought it was worth it. And it worked wonderfully because soon his deck was getting more and more fat, not just with the minions he put in there himself.

Bazaar, Crossroads, Cutpurse, Embargo, Laboratory, Mine, Nomad Camp, Oracle, Pearl Diver, and Trading Post
This was the most interesting set if you ask me. We started out identical on the first three turns: Silver, Nomad Camp, Trading Post+Crossroads. After that we split ways, because he went on with a money strategy (Silver on t4) while I bought an oracle and started building an engine. I still had some vague plans on embargo (provinces) or Cutpurse, but never got to it and didn't have to either. If we both go engine, I would be in serious doubt here between labs, bazaar+oracle or bazaar+crossroads+green.

... onto the division finals :)
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mith

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #163 on: January 05, 2013, 03:52:31 pm »
+3

Congrats, -Stef-!

Game 1 - My thinking with the Gold was that I was going heavier on Horse Traders, and wasn't going to be discarding with Minion as often. Probably still the wrong move, as I should have contested the Minion split more heavily. I felt like I had a bit of bad luck at the end of this one, as when -Stef- decides to break PPR I'm holding two HTs in hand and he doesn't play a Minion... as he pointed out chatting about it, if he sees me set aside two HT he's not going to break PPR, but since I was up a Duchy and an Estate at that point, I like my chances if the game continues.

Game 2 - I think I lost this on the opening $2 buy; I was scared of Moat drawing my City dead, but so what if it does, still better than Pearl Diver here. Anyway, that's why I'm a turn behind, as I settle for two Silvers turns 3/4. Probably should have bought Estate over Secret Chamber late (his SC was helpful, but that point could have been important to me). My only hope from pretty early on was winning the Province split, as he was a turn ahead in greening, but I shouldn't have broken PPR. (That said, if he is able to buy the Province, as he is, and does so, buying a Duchy and then a Province next turn only ties. This is where not buying the Estate hurt.)

Game 3 - I really should have known better than to buy so many Silvers, after we played an Ambassador game earlier in the week. Anyway, Wharf is obviously better than Minion here in retrospect, with Nobles for actions, and Minion is pretty useless. (All I was thinking was "cycling", which was dumb.) I think this game and the next I was pressing to try to catch up, and tried to make the boards play to suit where I felt my strengths lie rather than just playing the board.

Game 4 - Underrated Oracle for the engine. Not the first time, probably won't be the last. I wondered after if I could have gotten an Embargo on one of his key engine parts early enough once he deviated, but that's probably too slow.

Good luck the rest of the way, -Stef-... not that you need it. ;)
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #164 on: January 05, 2013, 05:19:41 pm »
+1

Thoughts on mith v Stef:
Game 1: What is the verdict on HT and minions? I know that HT is supposed to be this really great counter to minion, but on the other hand, they should work decently well together, and then... well, I don't know. I know with scheme, big time horse traders can really happen. But here, you would like to be able to village, then HT, then minion, but that is hard to organize. HoP may be okay here, but I doubt for a mega-turn - there just isn't the draw in any way that's reliable enough. Well, I am not sure exactly what's happening, but I'll assume Stef played pretty close to correct - that is usually pretty safe.

Game 2: yeah, moat has to be better than pear diver. Drawing your city dead on turn 3 or 4 just really don't matter for you - it's just a cantrip at that point anyway. The best money thing on 5-2 is probably actually silver/moat, but this inspires basically NO confidence. VERY weak set for BM - nobles isn't terrible, but it's not that good. City stack will happen, but with no +buy I am not sure how good the vineyard plan is - you probably don't have time to take them past 4. Well, I don't know what you do here, maybe BM-Nobles is good? Eh, probably this will fail to cities which go for nobles, and then they DO have buy, and can get vineyards and whatever else they want. Money has nothing to give it any longevity here. This board is just so weak, and with a 5/2 split, even worse....

Game 3: I have to worry about skipping ambassador altogether and going for wharves and money here, with no village except nobles. Mmmm, maybe one ambassador - I am not sure. But losing the war would not be so bad, I think. I guess a super-thin player can go minion/conspirator, huh? Well, is this fast enough? I am not sure, but I'm inclined to go for wharf, either with 0 or 1 ambassador.

Game 4: Is trading post that good? I guess. I think I would want to go with trashing coppers preferrentially, with the post, end up going for a bazaar/oracle/crossroads engine. But probably a more conventional trash-the-estates, bazaar/oracle engine is a bit better, getting one crossroads as a super-village. This is the wrong opening if you want to go money - in that case, you probably go oracle-BM, but this is not so impressive. And oracle is quite nice as an engine card. Lab is nice, but I think bazaar should really be preferred in any case.

dondon151

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #165 on: January 11, 2013, 06:47:21 pm »
0

I gotta go somewhere and will post the logs later, but (11) dondon151 wins the set against (7) Zem, 4-3.
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dondon151

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #166 on: January 12, 2013, 01:13:52 am »
+4

Okay, here they are:

(11) dondon151 wins the set against (7) Zem, 4-3

Set rules: PCE off, official PC on, identical starting hands, veto mode, Zem gets first player in game 1 (higher location in bracket).

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-135225-20436983.html
Caravan, Courtyard, Crossroads, Island, Lighthouse, Loan, Peddler, Remake, Stables, and Walled Village

dondon151 21 - 30 Zem

There's nothing really amazing here, so Remake into a Stables engine was pretty obvious. Zem gets 2 Golds over Stables, which I think is a mistake in this kingdom since Remake gives free Silvers and Stables are pretty good at clumping at least $8 together in Silvers and Coppers. Anyway my Remake falls to turn 5, which already puts me at a disadvantage. I grab an early Island and set aside an Estate with it, which helps on this board with no +buy. On my last turn I decide to break PPR after noticing that Zem had no Caravans in play, and I was basically counting on him not drawing a hand with Stables so that I could Province consecutively and tie, or if I got really lucky, I could come out on top with buying Province and Remaking a Silver into an Island. Almost got it, but didn't happen.

Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-140645-a33b9aba.html
Ambassador, Duke, Herbalist, Nomad Camp, Pearl Diver, Saboteur, Secret Chamber, Smithy, Tactician, and Torturer

dondon151 38 - 36 Zem

Neither of us saw an engine here, so it became apparent that Duke would be a major consideration. There's no non-terminal draw for a double Tactician engine to be possible with SC. I open with Amb anyway because I still think it's the best choice when going for Duke, since giving the opponent Estates hurts his money density. I get a Tactician, Zem gets a Sab, I get a Sab of my own. I play mine a bit more due to having a slightly tighter deck and it hits 2 of Zem's Duchies, which basically hands me the game. I lose the Duchy split after some poor luck with not hitting $5, but Zem's deck was bogged down enough with green that he hit the Dukes very slowly, allowing me to rebuild with Golds on $6 hands and then 3 Provinces of my own. I got a little lucky that Zem's Sab didn't hit anything good.

Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-142048-6dcd9cdc.html
City, Embassy, Harem, Mint, Outpost, Quarry, Royal Seal, Village, Worker's Village, and Workshop

dondon151 46 - 31 Zem

Zem goes Embassy-BM; I get multiple Quarries and Worker's Villages, then buy out the entire City stack very quickly on my own. Once I got rolling, Minting Harems/Golds and a robust Outpost turn let me cruise to an easy victory.

Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-143320-a77065b6.html
Conspirator, Coppersmith, Crossroads, Haggler, Inn, Mining Village, Peddler, Remodel, Tunnel, and Warehouse

dondon151 31 - 36 Zem

I should have kept track of the Tunnel split, but the game basically came down to that and Zem's first player advantage. Crossroads was kind of useless despite all the green floating around since every other card reduced handsize, and I feel like Zem got just a slight bit luckier with lining up his Tunnel discards. Overall pretty evenly matched though.

Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-145623-3e097213.html
Bank, Embargo♦, Fairgrounds, Fishing Village, Harem, Hunting Party, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Steward, Walled Village, Woodcutter, and Young Witch

dondon151 54 - 42 Zem

Zem opened with YW/FV; I liked YW/Silver better because it has a pretty good chance at hitting $5 and HP looked like the power card in this set. I get the first 4 HPs before Zem gets any, and then I Embargo them, which basically kills him. He gets to 6 VP Fairgrounds, but I make my way up there too, and I just have too many Provinces.

Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-152112-dff4bf07.html
Apothecary, Bank, City, Council Room, Horn of Plenty, Lighthouse, Potion, Quarry, Remake, Spy, and Tactician

dondon151 39 - 40 Zem

HoP and Bank made for interesting choices; both have high mega-turn potential. Zem opened Potion for Apothecary, but I preferred Remake for improving consistency. He focuses on getting that one big turn with HoPs, and he manages to get that on turn 14. That put me in a bad position, because I was also able to get a big turn on turn 14, but I didn't have enough buys/gains to win: I needed 7 Duchies and 2 Provinces, but I could only gain 5 Duchies and 2 Provinces maximum.

I made 2 mistakes here on turns 14 and 15: turn 14 I could have gained another HoP using HoP instead of trashing it for a Duchy, and turn 15 I could have used Remake to trash Bank -> Province mid-turn to level up my Cities and get a couple more buys. Had I not made those mistakes, I would have been easily able to muster the extra Estate buys to come out on top despite losing the Province split 6-2. I'm usually good about finding ways to win, but this one totally escaped me. Sigh. So onto game 7.

Game 7: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-153246-927aa6bf.html
Bureaucrat, Colony, Explorer, Feast, Mandarin, Nomad Camp, Peddler, Platinum, Salvager, Spy, Treasure Map, and Venture

dondon151 74 - 52 Zem

This looked like a really dull board. I went straight for the Venture stack while Zem detoured for other bits and pieces. I think Venture is fairly strong in Colony money games and without good ways to overcome a VP deficit, I cruised to victory.

Thanks to Zem for the good games! Onwards to the top 8.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 01:24:01 am by dondon151 »
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DG

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #167 on: January 12, 2013, 10:33:43 am »
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In game 2 it looks like Zem twice used a secret chamber against a saboteur, put coppers/estates back onto the deck both times, and both times the saboteur trashed an 8vp duchy deeper in the draw deck. That's got to hurt.
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Zem

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #168 on: January 12, 2013, 05:04:26 pm »
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Here are my comments on the games dondon151 - Zem

Game 1: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-135225-20436983.html
Caravan, Courtyard, Crossroads, Island, Lighthouse, Loan, Peddler, Remake, Stables, and Walled Village

I still would favor getting a gold first with 6, but my second gold should probably have been a stable.


Game 2: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-140645-a33b9aba.html
Ambassador, Duke, Herbalist, Nomad Camp, Pearl Diver, Saboteur, Secret Chamber, Smithy, Tactician, and Torturer

I don't see the need for ambassador in a duke game.
I opened nomad camp for the extra coppers; then on turn 3 by force of habit I simply bought a gold and no copper.
Perhaps even Duchy+copper would have been better.
On turn 6 I get a Saboteur, figuring that if I can hit some of the key cards it will pay of big, but that fails to materialize throughout the game, so a duchy would clearly have been better here.

Still, I was in good shape later, but then I took some bad risk when I decided not to use my secret chamber to put a sacrificial card for saboteur to hit, and instead put some trash back on top for discarding. I figured the chance that it hit a duchy would be low enough, and otherwise I would not have had 5$. Baaad idea, which basically costs me the game.


Game 3: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-142048-6dcd9cdc.html
City, Embassy, Harem, Mint, Outpost, Quarry, Royal Seal, Village, Worker's Village, and Workshop

I totally failed to see the city megaturn, going for a simple Embassy/Big Money. I figured since embassy is a great sifter but a bad engine draw card, netting only 2 cards, getting to that many cities and two empty stacks would take far too long. Turns out I was wrong :)

During the opening I was quite distracted by one interesting thing: it seems that for 'identical starting hands', 5/2 split, there may be a strong second player advantage, since if the first player opens embassy, the second player can open mint, so the first player should probably avoid opening embassy. I was freaked out a bit when I realized that after my vetoing. We got 4/3 though, so it did not matter.


Game 4: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-143320-a77065b6.html
Conspirator, Coppersmith, Crossroads, Haggler, Inn, Mining Village, Peddler, Remodel, Tunnel, and Warehouse

This was a very obvious Tunnel/Warehouse game, with some help from Remodel and Inn.
The crossroads performed lackluster in this game.
Dondon151 gets an early Haggler, which I am not sure is better than Inn or Remodel, since the next few buys will mostly be tunnels.



Game 5: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-145623-3e097213.html
Bank, Embargo♦, Fairgrounds, Fishing Village, Harem, Hunting Party, Philosopher's Stone, Potion, Steward, Walled Village, Woodcutter, and Young Witch

Quote
Zem opened with YW/FV; I liked YW/Silver better because it has a pretty good chance at hitting $5 and HP looked like the power card in this set. I get the first 4 HPs before Zem gets any, and then I Embargo them, which basically kills him. He gets to 6 VP Fairgrounds, but I make my way up there too, and I just have too many Provinces.

Yeah, that embargo hurt. I failed to get to 5 every time before, and just when I finally have a hand of 5, the embargo hits. But I think I was too far behind on hunting parties and curses at this point anyway.
I am too fond of Fishing Village, silver would have been better. Still, Dondon151 got silver + 4 coppers on turn 3, so with that draw a fishing village would have sufficed to get to 5. And an early hunting party is a tremendous help on this board.


Game 6: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-152112-dff4bf07.html
Apothecary, Bank, City, Council Room, Horn of Plenty, Lighthouse, Potion, Quarry, Remake, Spy, and Tactician

I think Apothecary is a better choice here than remake. It provides some variance for HoP, and some draw so I do not need so many Council Rooms.

I probably cashed in a HoP too early for a province on turn 12, should perhaps have gotten another HoP instead. That tactican may also have been a bad decision, instead of another council room.


Game 7: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201301/11/game-20130111-153246-927aa6bf.html
Bureaucrat, Colony, Explorer, Feast, Mandarin, Nomad Camp, Peddler, Platinum, Salvager, Spy, Treasure Map, and Venture

I went off the rails here, my concentration was really slipping. I thought I saw a rare chance for Mandarin to be useful, and opened Mandarin/Salvager. I have very little experience with Mandarin, so that was probably a bad idea.
I did not consider simply Venture/Big money.
Although I did draw Mandarin and Salvager together on turn 5 for a gold, and then 2 Salvagers on turn 6 for another gold, I am not sure if that was lucky or unlucky, since it meant I did not get to trash estates.
It soon became apparent that my plan would not work. Very frustrating game, this one.


Thanks a lot for the games, and good luck to Dondon151 for the next rounds!
« Last Edit: January 12, 2013, 05:13:31 pm by Zem »
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shark_bait

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #169 on: January 12, 2013, 06:18:10 pm »
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In game 7, Mandarin is actually a really good addition to a Venture/BM deck.  I would actually open Mandarin/Venture/Nothing.  You can put an estate or other green on top to be passed by a Venture play.
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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #170 on: January 12, 2013, 07:14:25 pm »
+1

In game 7, Mandarin is actually a really good addition to a Venture/BM deck.  I would actually open Mandarin/Venture/Nothing.  You can put an estate or other green on top to be passed by a Venture play.
Mandarin is a nice addition to this deck.... but still loses quite badly to opening Salvager/- into Spies & Peddlers.

Yes, really, focus on getting some Spies first :)

Having all the Peddlers for yourself, accidently flipping over good cards, going straight from Coppers to Platinum and in the endgame maybe sack some Peddlers... I'm not going to call it a great plan but it's decent in a kingdom where everything else is quite weak.
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dondon151

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Re: Chapel Division: Bracket and Results
« Reply #171 on: January 12, 2013, 08:47:48 pm »
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Yep, Salvager into Spies/Peddlers does beat all forms of Venture-BM in the last kingdom. Can't resist that Venture stack, though ;) and it might face some issues if Peddlers get contested.
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