Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2  All

Author Topic: The point counter/game tracker  (Read 15111 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
The point counter/game tracker
« on: July 20, 2012, 01:55:43 pm »
+3

Alright, I know this is a touchy subject, but here we go again...

I have encountered quite a few players recently who use the extensive version of the point tracker AND who disallow their opponent from disabling.  Maybe the prevalence hasn't increased and I'm only now noticing this because I now understand just how much of an advantage it provides to the player running the tracker vs. their opponent. But regardless, it seems like a problem.

My understanding is that this has been clearly labeled a variant - and thus unacceptable unless all players agree to it. 

Is there any way to stop people from preventing disabling?  Shouldn't that element be built into the add-on?

It is seriously reducing my desire to play Dominion.
Logged

shark_bait

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
  • Shuffle iT Username: shark_bait
  • Luckyfin and Land of Hinter for iso aliases
  • Respect: +1868
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2012, 01:59:07 pm »
0

I don't know if you can stop people from preventing a disable, but you can restrict automatch to prohibit point counter.  It might take a bit more time to find a match, but you won't encounter that situation.
Logged
Hello.  Name's Bruce.  It's all right.  I understand.  Why trust a shark, right?

Is quite curious - Who is the mystical "Celestial Chameleon"?

olneyce

  • 2011 DS Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 245
  • Respect: +210
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 02:09:52 pm »
0

Hmmm, I guess that works.

The problem is that I know that are a ton of great players who I enjoy playing with that use the simple point counter and/or allow disabling.  I don't want to restrict myself from playing them.  And I have no problem whatsoever with the simple point counter - I don't use it myself, but I enjoy games just fine when it's involved.

But for the sake of not playing against the super-tracker, I guess I'll just be banning the counter entirely.  Seems like an unfortunate situation.
Logged

Fabian

  • 2012 Swedish Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 666
  • Respect: +542
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 02:17:35 pm »
+1

The other easy way to see which players do this, if you don't want to prohibit point counter in the auto-match pool (which is indeed the easiest way, but potentially restricts you from other people too like you say) is to look for those who have the Auto Count status message. It's still not fool proof, as there might be people who have that message who still allow !disabling, but overall I would think the amount of people who do would be pretty small. Of course, it means checking the status message of every player you're paired with beforehand, which I imagine would be annoying too.
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 03:47:35 pm »
0

The other easy way to see which players do this, if you don't want to prohibit point counter in the auto-match pool (which is indeed the easiest way, but potentially restricts you from other people too like you say) is to look for those who have the Auto Count status message. It's still not fool proof, as there might be people who have that message who still allow !disabling, but overall I would think the amount of people who do would be pretty small. Of course, it means checking the status message of every player you're paired with beforehand, which I imagine would be annoying too.
Exactly this. The default setting for the extension is allow disabling, no status message. So if the status message is on, it's very likely because that player disabled disabling. (Although not always! I turn on disabling when playing in IsoDom, but don't bother turning off the status message.)
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:50:09 pm by blueblimp »
Logged

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 04:19:28 pm »
0

The problem is that I know that are a ton of great players who I enjoy playing with that use the simple point counter and/or allow disabling.  I don't want to restrict myself from playing them.

Having recently become much more of a purist, I find that prohibiting the counter in auto-match maybe costs me a minute of time getting into a game.  As far as not getting to play against people who require the simple counter... well, I don't know what to tell you, there.

And yeah, if they don't allow disabling, they'll have the status message on by default.  So, don't match with people who have the status message on and you'll always be able to disable.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

Eevee

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1010
  • Shuffle iT Username: Eevee
  • A wild Eevee appears!
  • Respect: +867
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 09:48:37 pm »
0

I changed my status message into saying something like "only accept games w/ me if you are fine with the PCE" because that variant is the one I enjoy the most. I havent noticed any delay in getting opponents after that but then again I never anymore play because of forum mafia. I think I'll be quitting for good when we change to funsockets (I understood they are not very hot on point trackers).
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 11:35:46 pm »
0

I play and allow disabling.
I think I should change my status message to match Eevee's, though.

There's something I hate about people who type !disable when I start a game.  Playing with a game tracker is a variant, a dang good one imo, but still a variant.  But when someone types !disable, they aren't saying "sorry, I don't wish to play a variant of Dominion, I want to play standard Dominion", they are saying "sorry, I refuse to play your variant of Dominion.  Instead, I now force you to play my variant of Dominion, in which there is an official point tracker".  That's wrong in principle. 
Of course, if the game tracker allowed you to play games with the official point tracker disabled, I would just do that, but it doesn't.  Which doesn't make too much sense when the !status command is available anyway if the point tracker hasn't been disabled.  Though I understand the intent of that restriction.

On the automatch subject, I think checking the status of your opponent is a reasonable prerequisite for accepting a game.  That restriction is a good one.
Logged

greatexpectations

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1097
  • Respect: +1067
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2012, 01:17:28 am »
0

wrong in principle?  you are going a little overboard here pops.  people check the auto box to include games with the standard point counter, inherent in the interface.  i am honestly confused as to how you can seek to paint the disabler as a villain when you are introducing an outside element to the game.

and again, i disagree. i don't think players should be forced to check a status before accepting a game. by doing that you move away from the point of automatch in the first place. as the one introducing an outside element to the gaming interface, any added burden should lie on you.
Logged
momomoto: ...I looked at the tableau and went "Mountebank? That's for jerks."
rrenaud: Jerks win.

drheld

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • I work on the open source dominion point counter.
  • Respect: +1
    • View Profile
    • Dominion Point Counter Chrome Extension
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2012, 01:53:11 am »
+1

I changed my status message into saying something like "only accept games w/ me if you are fine with the PCE" because that variant is the one I enjoy the most. I havent noticed any delay in getting opponents after that but then again I never anymore play because of forum mafia. I think I'll be quitting for good when we change to funsockets (I understood they are not very hot on point trackers).

What makes you think they are so against point counters?
Logged

Jfrisch

  • Conspirator
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
  • Respect: +166
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2012, 02:13:33 am »
0

as somebody who does use the regular point tracker but does not use the mega-point tracker. This makes me a bit sad. Though, honestly, I wonder how much of a difference it makes. If the game had been written with the rule that "you can look in discard piles" point-tracker would be unneccessary (and, beyond that, you would get a tiny bit of extra information) the extent to which this changes the game is very minor. Why do people get SO worked up over which way they play?
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2012, 09:21:56 am »
0

people check the auto box to include games with the standard point counter, inherent in the interface.  i am honestly confused as to how you can seek to paint the disabler as a villain when you are introducing an outside element to the game.
It's not really their fault I guess, since the issue is I can't set the official point tracker to "off"
Logged

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +643
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 09:50:47 am »
0

people check the auto box to include games with the standard point counter, inherent in the interface.  i am honestly confused as to how you can seek to paint the disabler as a villain when you are introducing an outside element to the game.
It's not really their fault I guess, since the issue is I can't set the official point tracker to "off"

Yes you can turn the in game point counter "off".
Auto match option: point counter "prohibit".
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2012, 10:03:28 am »
0

The addon specifically prevents you from doing it.
Logged

Rabid

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 840
  • Shuffle iT Username: Rabid
  • Respect: +643
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2012, 10:07:15 am »
0

Sorry, disable add on, then follow above.
Logged
Twitch
1 Day Cup #1:Ednever

Kirian

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7096
  • Shuffle iT Username: Kirian
  • An Unbalanced Equation
  • Respect: +9411
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2012, 11:28:58 am »
0

Sorry, disable add on, then follow above.

Indeed, if you disable the addon, no one else can disable it for you.
Logged
Kirian's Law of f.DS jokes:  Any sufficiently unexplained joke is indistinguishable from serious conversation.

rls22

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
  • Respect: +9
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 06:32:03 pm »
0

So, if you don't want people to type !disable, why not just prohibit disabling in your PCE? 

I'm in the camp that's fine with the regular point counter (generally, because I can and do keep track of the score in my head IRL games and when I play games with no point tracker on Iso... the point tracker just allows me to be lazy) but would rather not play with the mega-PCE (because there's no way I could keep track of the score and the exact contents of my deck and my opponent's, because it does provide a significant advantage in some games to the person using it).

Also, I'm basically never going to hunt for the name of the person I auto-matched with and see what their status says before accepting a game.  That's just not going to happen.  So, sometimes I get matched with someone and I can't disable the PCE, which is not ideal, but not a huge problem for me (if I cared that much, I'd search for their status before accepting...).
Logged

shraeye

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 690
  • Shuffle iT Username: shraeye
  • More Graph Theory please
  • Respect: +299
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 06:41:35 pm »
0

So I may be confused about this.  If I see a message displayed by my opponent about the point tracker, I can type !disable to disable it, or can I not do that?  Is is possible to play an opponent who uses point tracker, but never see a message regarding it?

Those questions are mostly out of curiosity, I've seen the message before and didn't even worry about it.  If the opponent wants to count my deck up, that won't stop me from beating them if my deck is better. (and it isn't the reason I lost if their deck is better)
Logged

blueblimp

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2849
  • Respect: +1559
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2012, 06:51:01 pm »
0

So I may be confused about this.  If I see a message displayed by my opponent about the point tracker, I can type !disable to disable it, or can I not do that?  Is is possible to play an opponent who uses point tracker, but never see a message regarding it?

There are two messages: the status message, and the message that prints at the start of the game. You always see the message at the start of the game, no exceptions.

If you don't see the status message, that means the extension can be disabled. So if you enter a game with somebody running the extension but without "Auto Count" in their status, then it will print a message at the beginning of the game, and you will have the option to disable it.

If the status message is there, you don't know whether the extension can be disabled, so click "Yes" at your own risk.
Logged

WanderingWinder

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5275
  • ...doesn't really matter to me
  • Respect: +4381
    • View Profile
    • WanderingWinder YouTube Page
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2012, 07:17:54 pm »
0

In short, if you can disable it, it will tell you that you can disable it, and how to do it. If it doesn't tell you this, you can't disable it.

verikt

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 272
  • Respect: +65
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2012, 08:40:18 pm »
+4

I'm with Olneyce. I don't mind the regular point counter, I do mind the mega point counter. And having to look through the whole board to see the status of who I'm automatching is a pain. I started prohibiting the point counter altogether, even though I found it convenient. I wish there was some other option.
Quote
But when someone types !disable, they aren't saying "sorry, I don't wish to play a variant of Dominion, I want to play standard Dominion", they are saying "sorry, I refuse to play your variant of Dominion.
I typed disable when that was an option, and didn't think I was saying that all. I thought I was saying thank you for giving me the option not to play a variant I don't like, yes, I'll take that option.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2012, 11:14:25 pm »
0

I'm with Olneyce. I don't mind the regular point counter, I do mind the mega point counter. And having to look through the whole board to see the status of who I'm automatching is a pain. I started prohibiting the point counter altogether, even though I found it convenient. I wish there was some other option.
Quote
But when someone types !disable, they aren't saying "sorry, I don't wish to play a variant of Dominion, I want to play standard Dominion", they are saying "sorry, I refuse to play your variant of Dominion.
I typed disable when that was an option, and didn't think I was saying that all. I thought I was saying thank you for giving me the option not to play a variant I don't like, yes, I'll take that option.
Ok, yes, that's fair.. I didn't say what I meant to at all really.  I wish the addon could go straight from game tracking to stone age
Logged

mgallop

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +14
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2012, 01:57:52 pm »
0

So, I just got matched w/ someone who had the PCE that prevented not only disabling but also me checking details, which to my mind seems kind of outrageous, has anyone else noticed this?
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2860
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2012, 03:18:09 pm »
0

Are you sure you didn't confuse it with the autocount message from the game before?

That does seem kind of outrageous.
Logged

mgallop

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Respect: +14
    • View Profile
Re: The point counter/game tracker
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2012, 05:23:38 pm »
0

Message only offered option to type !status to check status.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  All
 

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 21 queries.