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Honkeyfresh

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What cards do you ban and why?
« on: May 25, 2022, 05:33:13 pm »
0

Kind of curious to see what cards people ban and what their reasons are.  I imagine this info would be informative to Donald X and the resst of the crew to hear why people ban certain cards too. I imagine there is a way that the site can see what cards people have banned, do we have that info available?  I'd be curious to see the data on that.
but here's mine

rebuild and sauna are just the same game every time and bore me to tears. Cartographer and Apothecary  just take too damn long, an Ghost ship is just unbearable, though now that it's gone can I put a new card in here?

wolf den is just annoying to track so much, and baths and raid are also just too unfun to waste an event on, as most events are pretty cool.

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Gubump

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2022, 06:47:25 pm »
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My banlist:

Chariot Race: One of the two most tiltingly-swingy cards in the game imo. It would be WAY better if it discarded the opponent's card so that you don't just get 5 free VP just because your opponent had a Copper on their deck once. It might even not be on my banlist if that were the case. But keeping the same competition for the entirety of a given turn gives it the dishonor of being my most hated card in all of Dominion.

Rebuild: The most boring official card ever made.

Tournament: The other of the two most tiltingly-swingy cards in the game.

Torturer: Makes games too torturous. Fitting for the name.

Mountebank: Same reason as Torturer.

Tax: Serves no other purpose than slowing the game down and giving a disadvantage to the first player, that's imo worse than the advantage they normally get.

Mountain Pass: Easy to forget it exists, until someone buys the first Province and then it suddenly creates an overly-lengthy pause in the game while everyone thinks about how much to bid and is very easy to get wrong and screw yourself over.
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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2022, 06:49:05 pm »
+2

We do have that info available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0

My bans are:


Most are probably self-explanatory. Lighthouse is just dumb overall because if it's relevant, its contribution to the game is that it's a vanilla split-over-two-turns Silver that everyone needs to have a few copies of, and a bunch of other cards that used to have player interaction are now also vanilla (except when your opponent gets blessed by the RNGsus and their attack actually goes through). Keep is very memory-intensive and once you've had the realization that buying a Gold with Keep in the kingdom is this close to being strictly better than buying Province (which is a fun realization to have, to be fair), it's not that exciting to play the games where both players will just buy Golds for a really long time.
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trivialknot

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2022, 07:34:42 pm »
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I only play offline, so we don't have banlists exactly, so there are just some cards we keep out of rotation, or frequently veto.

Out of rotation: Alchemy, 1st edition cards except Tribute
Almost always veto: King's Court, Goons, Rebuild, Cultist, Ambassador
Sometimes veto: Chapel, Donate, Peasant, Page, Governor, Sauna/Avanto

We tend not to like the most powerful cards, I guess.  We're not so much bothered by randomness, we're more bothered by long turns with lots of tracking, or forced early resigns.  I actually like the cards in the sometimes-veto list but sometimes we draw them and we're just not in the mood.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2022, 08:52:04 pm »
0

We do have that info available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0

My bans are:


Most are probably self-explanatory. Lighthouse is just dumb overall because if it's relevant, its contribution to the game is that it's a vanilla split-over-two-turns Silver that everyone needs to have a few copies of, and a bunch of other cards that used to have player interaction are now also vanilla (except when your opponent gets blessed by the RNGsus and their attack actually goes through). Keep is very memory-intensive and once you've had the realization that buying a Gold with Keep in the kingdom is this close to being strictly better than buying Province (which is a fun realization to have, to be fair), it's not that exciting to play the games where both players will just buy Golds for a really long time.


I mean I know a lot of people hated possession, but i did not know how great strong that majority is.

It is likely that more people have banned the card possession than the total of all other bans of any other card combined! someone who knows excel better than me can probably answer this quickly.





« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 08:55:02 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2022, 09:07:19 pm »
+1

My banlist:

Chariot Race: One of the two most tiltingly-swingy cards in the game imo. It would be WAY better if it discarded the opponent's card so that you don't just get 5 free VP just because your opponent had a Copper on their deck once. It might even not be on my banlist if that were the case. But keeping the same competition for the entirety of a given turn gives it the dishonor of being my most hated card in all of Dominion.

Rebuild: The most boring official card ever made.

Tournament: The other of the two most tiltingly-swingy cards in the game.

Torturer: Makes games too torturous. Fitting for the name.

Mountebank: Same reason as Torturer.

Tax: Serves no other purpose than slowing the game down and giving a disadvantage to the first player, that's imo worse than the advantage they normally get.

Mountain Pass: Easy to forget it exists, until someone buys the first Province and then it suddenly creates an overly-lengthy pause in the game while everyone thinks about how much to bid and is very easy to get wrong and screw yourself over.

As i suggested in my "dominion labs" thread I do something IRL to make 2 of your swingiest banned cards awesomeley fun!

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http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=20854.msg873395#msg873395

Anyone who has played with me has probably heard me throw in my philosophical opinions of certain aspects of dominions that I don't Like.  My most frequent is that I kind of hate Black Market and tournament because I find them fundamentally unfair.  The swings are so great with the prizes in Tournament that games are often almost over based on who gets the prize that is most useful in that particular kingdom (ie it lacks, actions, curses, buys, etc).  Same with Black market.  I once got a Fortune on t5.  That game was already over. Or a wall game where one person gets chapel and the other doesn't.  That game is essentially already over.  Because the uniqueness of the cards creates a wild imbalance.  IRL I rectified this by playing "Honkeyfresh's Black AF market" where I set up BM the same, but make TWO decks. One for each.  Then it truly is an easter egg game, where you start seeing cards appear in the other player's deck and get excited knowing what possibilities are out there.  I've also done this with tourney, but the prizes were just defaced coppersmiths that I turned into "Honkeyfresh's  Tourney for Two".  It is SOOOO much more fun and allows you to build the prizes to make a sweet engine, not by saying what do I have to get so that the other player doesn't first.  It would b really neat if somehow this tweak was added to the non rated games section to where you could play with two BM decks/prize piles, as it makes for a really fun, and eminently fairer game.



« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 09:09:45 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2022, 10:32:02 pm »
+7

I mean I know a lot of people hated possession, but i did not know how great strong that majority is.

It is likely that more people have banned the card possession than the total of all other bans of any other card combined! someone who knows excel better than me can probably answer this quickly.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Possession is actually banned by default? So it's more that a lot of people haven't bothered to un-ban it.

Also, in terms of number of bans, Possession is actually only the second most hated card in the game. The most hated is... Stash. :P
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 10:33:09 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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kieranmillar

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2022, 01:49:20 am »
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Before the banlist was introduced, dominion.games kept Possession out of the ranked card pool. When they introduced the ban list, all existing accounts had possession automatically placed on their banlist. Accounts created since do not have it on the banlist, but there's loads of dormant accounts that have not changed it since.

While I'm here, here's my banlist:

Posession: The only card I truly consider a mistake, there's just so many problems with this. The stackabke full extra turns is super boring to play against is my worst gripe, before getting to the awful unfun effects it has on many games.

Cultist: Mega-swingy and too dominant while creating games that aren't fun.

Mountebank: Mega-swingy and too dominant while creating games that aren't fun.

Urchin: Tired of opening double-Urchin being good but swingy and if you miss it you're doomed.

Knights: Just too many unfun games that I got tired of.

I don't ban any landscapes.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 01:50:22 am by kieranmillar »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2022, 02:49:53 am »
+1

  Banned:  (I think these are all obvious why)
Possession, Tournament, Lurker, Rebuild, Barbarian, Keep, Salt the Earth
  Disliked:
Swamp Hag, Page (should be obvious)
King's Court - Too crazy. and I think this is too swingy for the person who hits $7 first with some good Actions in their deck.
Governor - monolithic. also, I just suck with it.
Flag Bearer - very unfun fighting over the artifact imo.

Black Market is one of my favorite cards. It's way less swingy than Tournament. The times when it gives one player a big advantage are rare, and some of those times are when the better player played Black Market more times in order to find it.

I don't like Cultist but for some reason it doesn't bother me as much as it seems to bother other people.
I don't ban Ghost Ship or Mountebank because they're getting cut (most likely for MB anyway), otherwise I would.
I like Chariot Race.

There are several more cards that I don't use IRL, mostly because they're just not interesting or fun enough compared to other more fun cards.

My bans are:
The one I don't understand is Magpie. Why ban Magpie?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 02:51:00 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Awaclus

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2022, 04:40:26 am »
+1

The one I don't understand is Magpie. Why ban Magpie?

Because both players buy it and then one of the players at random gets 6 extra ones for free.
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brokoli

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2022, 09:49:50 am »
0

I don't have banlist, even my most hated cards comes sometimes with super interesting games. I used the dislike list for Tournament and Scrying pool though (nowadays I don't play on d.g, only on TGG).

Scrying Pool would be fine without the attack, but the attack makes the card painful and long to solve. Tournament is very swingy and sometimes getting one of the prizes is too important for the game.

I would be inclined to add Governor (very monolothic and speeds up the game a lot), Sauna (monolithic also, though I think a overrate it), Urchin. And I suffered a lot from Minion recently.
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Chappy7

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2022, 11:44:17 am »
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Ban: Possession, Urchin, Governor, Ghost Ship, Minion, Quest, Donate.  All either un-fun or swingy to me. Quest is often a waste of a slot, and I don't like that Donate is a must buy. It's just too strong of an affect for me to enjoy in dominion.

Dislike: Tournament, Saunavanto, Chapel, Rebuild, Cultist, Keep, City Gate, Raid.  Sauna, Rebuild, Cultist are too monolithic.  I got bored of Chapel and I prefer more interesting trashers (I don't really hate it, just didn't want to see it for a while) Tournament is too swingy, Keep is annoying, city gate is great, but it's annoying and makes the game way longer, Raid is just stupid, and a waste of a slot.
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humcalc216

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2022, 01:56:55 pm »
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My only bans are Harvest and Philosopher's Stone, since they basically reduce the kingdom size by 1 card each.

My disliked list is Border Guard, Guardian, Lighthouse, Governor, Rebuild, Annex, Triumphal Arch, Tower. I don't like the play pattern of games with Lighthouse/Guardian and strong attacks. Border Guard tends to snowball too quickly for such an innocent-looking card. Governor and Rebuild lead to too many monotone strategies. Annex is basically blank. The landmarks are there because I don't like boards that incentivize quickly emptying 3 piles and not really doing much else.

I have these as disliked rather than banned because they do do something, some people want to play with them sometimes, and I do enjoy seeing some of them occasionally.
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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2022, 10:31:56 am »
+1

When playing ladder / with my friends I only have rebuild banned - just makes the game not very interesting. Even possession is unbanned since I don't mind the occasional game with it rarely.
When playing league matches I add possession and donate (the latter mainly just because I'm not very good at using it well)

My dislike list is a bunch of cards that rarely do anything - transmute, harvest, bureaucrat, duchess, merchant ship, baths.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2022, 03:57:24 pm »
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We do have that info available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0

My bans are:


Most are probably self-explanatory. Lighthouse is just dumb overall because if it's relevant, its contribution to the game is that it's a vanilla split-over-two-turns Silver that everyone needs to have a few copies of, and a bunch of other cards that used to have player interaction are now also vanilla (except when your opponent gets blessed by the RNGsus and their attack actually goes through). Keep is very memory-intensive and once you've had the realization that buying a Gold with Keep in the kingdom is this close to being strictly better than buying Province (which is a fun realization to have, to be fair), it's not that exciting to play the games where both players will just buy Golds for a really long time.

I just checked the list and it seems that all the info is the same (and I know I at least un-banned ghost ship so that # should have changed).  Can you list this again, but updated?  I am curious to see how many people have banned OP Barbarian like I am going to do.

It's just so Op and literally dominates any game, even ones with other super strong attacks.  Here is an example of why people hate barbarian, and what many Barbarian games end up looking likeóthree piles of Barbarian, curses, and the lowest available action card.



« Last Edit: July 19, 2022, 04:02:33 pm by Honkeyfresh »
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Imrahil3

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2022, 08:26:02 pm »
+5

We do have that info available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0

My bans are:


Most are probably self-explanatory. Lighthouse is just dumb overall because if it's relevant, its contribution to the game is that it's a vanilla split-over-two-turns Silver that everyone needs to have a few copies of, and a bunch of other cards that used to have player interaction are now also vanilla (except when your opponent gets blessed by the RNGsus and their attack actually goes through). Keep is very memory-intensive and once you've had the realization that buying a Gold with Keep in the kingdom is this close to being strictly better than buying Province (which is a fun realization to have, to be fair), it's not that exciting to play the games where both players will just buy Golds for a really long time.

I just checked the list and it seems that all the info is the same (and I know I at least un-banned ghost ship so that # should have changed).  Can you list this again, but updated?  I am curious to see how many people have banned OP Barbarian like I am going to do.

It's just so Op and literally dominates any game, even ones with other super strong attacks.  Here is an example of why people hate barbarian, and what many Barbarian games end up looking likeóthree piles of Barbarian, curses, and the lowest available action card.



Posting about Barbarian in every thread doesnít make any of the rest of us agree with your assessment. Iím sorry youíre having a rough time of it but I look at Barbarian and see nothing more than an alternate Knight. Attacks add variety to the game by forcing you to play differently. If Barbarian wasnít affecting anything it would have been a wasted slot.
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2022, 04:56:22 am »
0

We do have that info available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0

My bans are:


Most are probably self-explanatory. Lighthouse is just dumb overall because if it's relevant, its contribution to the game is that it's a vanilla split-over-two-turns Silver that everyone needs to have a few copies of, and a bunch of other cards that used to have player interaction are now also vanilla (except when your opponent gets blessed by the RNGsus and their attack actually goes through). Keep is very memory-intensive and once you've had the realization that buying a Gold with Keep in the kingdom is this close to being strictly better than buying Province (which is a fun realization to have, to be fair), it's not that exciting to play the games where both players will just buy Golds for a really long time.

I just checked the list and it seems that all the info is the same (and I know I at least un-banned ghost ship so that # should have changed).  Can you list this again, but updated?  I am curious to see how many people have banned OP Barbarian like I am going to do.

It's just so Op and literally dominates any game, even ones with other super strong attacks.  Here is an example of why people hate barbarian, and what many Barbarian games end up looking likeóthree piles of Barbarian, curses, and the lowest available action card.



Posting about Barbarian in every thread doesnít make any of the rest of us agree with your assessment. Iím sorry youíre having a rough time of it but I look at Barbarian and see nothing more than an alternate Knight. Attacks add variety to the game by forcing you to play differently. If Barbarian wasnít affecting anything it would have been a wasted slot.

Um this thread wasn't about barbarian only.  But I would say that asking about the frequency of barbarian banning in a thread on what cards you have banned is on point. 

And I love attacks, and I love Barbarian, but neither of those changes the fact that Barbarian is mad OP.  Not sure why some people are so butt hurt about the fact that a card is OP.  many cards are, and this one certainly is.

But it is hilarious that you think that my mission here is to change your opinion on Barbarian.  Frankly I could give two shits about how you value the card, I just like discussing cards and don't mind mocking people who are wrong.  And anyone who says "barbarian is just ok and doesn't really dominate a board". probably hasn't played very much with it.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 05:02:26 am by Honkeyfresh »
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Imrahil3

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2022, 09:48:35 am »
0

We do have that info available.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zjm0G-dQWvUlghlBMeryRGJmHUH_4Miey2n5-O-kV9I/edit#gid=0

My bans are:


Most are probably self-explanatory. Lighthouse is just dumb overall because if it's relevant, its contribution to the game is that it's a vanilla split-over-two-turns Silver that everyone needs to have a few copies of, and a bunch of other cards that used to have player interaction are now also vanilla (except when your opponent gets blessed by the RNGsus and their attack actually goes through). Keep is very memory-intensive and once you've had the realization that buying a Gold with Keep in the kingdom is this close to being strictly better than buying Province (which is a fun realization to have, to be fair), it's not that exciting to play the games where both players will just buy Golds for a really long time.

I just checked the list and it seems that all the info is the same (and I know I at least un-banned ghost ship so that # should have changed).  Can you list this again, but updated?  I am curious to see how many people have banned OP Barbarian like I am going to do.

It's just so Op and literally dominates any game, even ones with other super strong attacks.  Here is an example of why people hate barbarian, and what many Barbarian games end up looking likeóthree piles of Barbarian, curses, and the lowest available action card.



Posting about Barbarian in every thread doesnít make any of the rest of us agree with your assessment. Iím sorry youíre having a rough time of it but I look at Barbarian and see nothing more than an alternate Knight. Attacks add variety to the game by forcing you to play differently. If Barbarian wasnít affecting anything it would have been a wasted slot.

Um this thread wasn't about barbarian only.  But I would say that asking about the frequency of barbarian banning in a thread on what cards you have banned is on point. 

And I love attacks, and I love Barbarian, but neither of those changes the fact that Barbarian is mad OP.  Not sure why some people are so butt hurt about the fact that a card is OP.  many cards are, and this one certainly is.

But it is hilarious that you think that my mission here is to change your opinion on Barbarian.  Frankly I could give two shits about how you value the card, I just like discussing cards and don't mind mocking people who are wrong.  And anyone who says "barbarian is just ok and doesn't really dominate a board". probably hasn't played very much with it.

I wasnít criticizing you for bringing up Barbarian here specifically, I was criticizing you for talking about it everywhere you could in a one-man campaign to prove Barbarian is the worst thing since ever. Iíll admit I donít have experience to back up my assertions about Barbarian, but most of the people here that I recognize as particularly experienced, skilled, or knowledgeable donít have a problem with Barbarian, so I donít think Iím off the mark in thinking itís fine.

Everyone has something they donít like: cloud-guy hates that Donald axed copper-focused cards; experienced players hate non-engine cards; I hate that we throw cards out for being non-engine cards; you hate Barbarian. Itís fine for everyone to have their own opinion, but at some point we need to question what the purpose of continued discussion is. If you want to keep complaining about Barbarian, thatís great! I love reading everyoneís posts here and Iíll continue to try and refute you as long as it interests me and I can do it without being toxic.

Keep on banning it; time will tell whether the community comes around to hating it or accepts it as-is.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2022, 09:51:04 am by Imrahil3 »
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DaveColMD

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2022, 05:17:54 pm »
0

Banned: Rebuild, Sauana/Avanto, Page

Rebuild is just a race to see who can get and play the most rebuilds.
Sauna/Avanto - whoever has the most wins
Page - whoever gets to Champion first wins.

I used to like Governor but now I find  once people figure it out, the games become the same.

The problem with Magpies is if they are in the game, you have to have some, but you can end up with too many and  draw Magpie afte Magpie from your deck to no benefit.

I must be one of the few who doesn't mind Possession. It can be a doubled edged sword. You may take over a crappy hand from someone.

I also must be one of the few that didn't mind Ghost Ship - I liked it.

Barbarian is nasty - it can take away anything including provinces, colonies, and platinums, but I won't ban it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2022, 06:04:04 pm by DaveColMD »
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arcee

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2022, 04:12:39 pm »
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Banned: Lurker, Coin of the Realm, Graverobber, Rogue, Royal Carriage, Tomb, Keep.  Room for another landscape - had Basilica for a bit until it got fixed.  I don't like the reliability of Coin/Carriage and the other cards allow the game to move forwards less. Lurker is particularly annoying for also being swingy/powerful.  Could welcome Rogue back in if I needed the slot since it usually doesn't do that much.  Keep is just annoying to track.

Disliked: Possession, Villa, Procession, Cultist, Stonemason, Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Training.  Sad about possession - in some senses it and Mindslaver are my favourite cards in their games, Possession a much improved version - but in practice in modern Dominion there's just too much ability to make a mess with it.  The others are very explosive.  The Adventures tokens again lead to too much consistency and don't feel like they fit in to me.

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Jack Rudd

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2022, 05:05:45 am »
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Possession is, I think, a card where I'd like a specific ban list that only applies to games featuring that particular card. (Way of the Horse, Way of the Butterfly, Ambassador, Masquerade are, I think, the main offenders.)
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Honkeyfresh

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2022, 07:51:52 am »
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Banned: Lurker, Coin of the Realm, Graverobber, Rogue, Royal Carriage, Tomb, Keep.  Room for another landscape - had Basilica for a bit until it got fixed.  I don't like the reliability of Coin/Carriage and the other cards allow the game to move forwards less. Lurker is particularly annoying for also being swingy/powerful.  Could welcome Rogue back in if I needed the slot since it usually doesn't do that much.  Keep is just annoying to track.

Disliked: Possession, Villa, Procession, Cultist, Stonemason, Lost Arts, Pathfinding, Training.  Sad about possession - in some senses it and Mindslaver are my favourite cards in their games, Possession a much improved version - but in practice in modern Dominion there's just too much ability to make a mess with it.  The others are very explosive.  The Adventures tokens again lead to too much consistency and don't feel like they fit in to me.

Is Mindslaver Mastermind?   
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chipperMDW

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2022, 01:03:41 pm »
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Is Mindslaver Mastermind?

Mindslaver is a Magic: The Gathering card similar to Possession.
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arcee

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Re: What cards do you ban and why?
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2022, 11:18:34 pm »
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Is Mindslaver Mastermind?

Mindslaver is a Magic: The Gathering card similar to Possession.

Correct.  In Magic I love playing the opponent's deck and trying to use the cards weirdly/poorly but it also skips their turn / gives you another (normal) turn which is already a very powerful effect and makes repeated Mindslaver unfun.

The Dominion version fixes this by making it an extra turn so they still get the normal turn.  (I've played that version in Magic also, a friend put Possession into one of his homebrew sets).  But now the problem is if their Dominion deck is good, you can often just ruin a turn or seven with bad draw/shuffle play even outside of bizarre interactions.  That is kind of a cool thing to do once in a while, but not often.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2022, 11:25:02 pm by arcee »
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