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[markusin]

You could always cycle the dignitary though:

"When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, +1 card and trash a card from your hand."

This is perhaps worth trying. The reason I hadn't tried it yet is because I assumed there was a reason it hadn't been done on published cards. That reason was redrawing it and using it again. So, another player plays an Attack. You discard Dignitary and trash a card from your hand, then draw a card. Say that makes you shuffle and you redraw your Dignitary. Then you can do it again, and so on. But really the chance that you're going to keep drawing more Dignitaries is slim. And even if you do, so what? Causing a reshuffle is a logistics issue, but attacks and Secret Chamber already do that. So, yeah, maybe it's worthwhile. I'd probably try:

When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this. If you do, trash a card from your hand, then draw 2 cards.

Maybe drawing 2 cards is a bit much, but I'd probably try that first. Again, you've got crazy Fortress stuff where you could potentially keep increasing your handsize by trashing Fortresses, but that's not likely to work. And if you do pull it off, woohoo!

Either way, this wording avoids infinite loop issues, because you can just choose to stop using the reaction.

You can try the stronger "trash a card from your hand, then draw 2 cards" version if you feel the current version is too weak. The version that draws only one card is pretty much the same as the current version in terms of power.

[LastFootnote]

You can try the stronger "trash a card from your hand, then draw 2 cards" version if you feel the current version is too weak. The version that draws only one card is pretty much the same as the current version in terms of power.

It's pretty much the same IF the average card in your deck is about as good as Dignitary. If your deck is loaded with trash, it's worse. If your deck is great, it's better. I'm guessing it'll need the +2 Cards, but I'll need to test it to make sure.

EDIT: So if I simplify both halves of Dignitary, it probably ends up looking like this (also here's the current version to compare).

[LastFootnote]

Huh, maybe I could take the top half of the current Dignitary, bump it up to 3 cards, and cost it at $5. I think a terminal +$3 for $5 isn't too crazy.

[pacovf]

Somewhat related to the issue at hand: is there anything preventing a player from revealing a Tunnel multiple times when discarding it? As far as I can tell, there is nothing that differentiates "when another player plays an Attack card" from "when you discard this", in both cases you are sort of interrupting the game flow.

PPE: well, the problem with grafting a "discard this" reaction into an expensive card is that the reaction better be as strong as the main part of the card, which means that an opponents attack card might help you much more than it is hurting you, which means people don't buy attack cards? My two cents on the issue.

EDIT: ah sorry you would be taking the reaction part out, nevermind.

[LibraryAdventurer]

At first glance, I didn't like the new version of dignitary (the one on the left) mainly because I liked the old version, but on second look I thought, hey both halves have the same feel and almost the same effect as the old dignitary, and it looks nicer. It's a little stronger, but I like keeping it at $4.

The only little issue is that it doesn't block attacks that depend on players having 5 cards in hand (like Minion & Axeman). Wasn't that part of the original idea of the card?
To change it back I'd make this the reaction:

When another player plays an attack card, you may discard this. If you do, +1 card and trash a card.

The upper half is slightly stronger than it used to be, so I think it's fine to work with a 4 card hand after using the reaction.

If it were me, I would do this:

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this. If you do, trash a card from your hand.

Because I don't remember reading anywhere official that said you could reveal a reaction multiple times.

[market squire]

Somewhat related to the issue at hand: is there anything preventing a player from revealing a Tunnel multiple times when discarding it? As far as I can tell, there is nothing that differentiates "when another player plays an Attack card" from "when you discard this", in both cases you are sort of interrupting the game flow.

Because I don't remember reading anywhere official that said you could reveal a reaction multiple times.

Just looked though the Rules questions forum backwards. Here you are:

Border Village causes something else to happen when you gain it (and Tunnel optionally does when it's discarded). You only gain it once so it only causes that thing to happen once.

The reason "when an opponent plays an attack card" is an exception to this is because we can't tell if you drew that Moat off of Secret Chamber or had it in your hand already, and if you had it in your hand you could use it, because you would just be picking the order to do two things you wanted to do at the same time. So we let you use it whether it was in your hand or not, and ditto a second Secret Chamber.

The reason that we let you reveal Moat / Secret Chamber twice is because we can't tell if you had multiples or what.

So you can't reveal Tunnel twice because you just discarded that copy.

[LibraryAdventurer]

Ok so the suggestion of

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this. If you do, trash a card from your hand.

would be bad because there's no way of knowing whether the person had more than one dignitary in his hand or not.
That makes sense now.

[LastFootnote]

The only little issue is that it doesn't block attacks that depend on players having 5 cards in hand (like Minion & Axeman). Wasn't that part of the original idea of the card?

This is a good point. It wasn't part of the original idea exactly, but I did like that interaction. Still, I'll try it this way and then nerf it down to +1 Card if it seems too strong.

[LastFootnote]

Tested this version of Vendor once, and here's the bigger Dignitary for testing.

Vendor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Action. +$1. Look through your discard pile. You may pay a Trade token to put a card from it into your hand. Otherwise, +1 Card.

Harbor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
Look at the top 3 cards of your deck. Put any number of them into your hand. Put the rest back in any order. +$1 per card you put back.

[Asper]

I like Harbor, and i'm not too much a fan of Smithy+ usually. It also reminds me of Mandarin and Harvest. Harvest looks a bit weak in comparison, but it's not strictly worse.

I'd actually vote to split Dignitary up and make Harbor real.

[Awaclus]

Harvest looks a bit weak in comparison

It looks weak in comparison to everything.

[LibraryAdventurer]

As long as we're voting, I'd vote to keep Dignitary as you have it*. The problem with Harbor is that it's redundant with Dignitary and Dignitary is better.

(*Except for tweaking the reaction depending on whether +1 or +2 cards works better of course.)

[LastFootnote]

As long as we're voting, I'd vote to keep Dignitary as you have it*. The problem with Harbor is that it's redundant with Dignitary and Dignitary is better.

(*Except for tweaking the reaction depending on whether +1 or +2 cards works better of course.)

Well, I'm assuming we're talking about the version of Dignitary that's [+2 Cards; +$2; Put 2 cards on your deck]. It is similar to Harbor, but not so similar that I can't do both. Dignitary now always puts you down a card in hand, whereas you can use Harbor as a Smithy. But let's say that they are too similar. If Harbor works out, I'd rather just change Dignitary's top, since Dignitary's concept is "Reaction that trashes cards". In fact I'd change Dignitary's top to discard 2 cards (rather than putting them on your deck), but I'm pretty convinced that would be too strong for $4. Anyway, I'd rather just change Dignitary's top entirely than kill Harbor if Harbor ends up being a hit.

[Asper]

The problem with Harbor is that it's redundant with Dignitary and Dignitary is better.

That really depends on preferences. Harbor is a simple card that seems very much like it would work on its own (like the Seaside reference, btw) while we obviously struggle to get Dignitary in line. More effects =/= better cards.

Sorry for the edit, i try to stop doing that...

[LastFootnote]

I'm on a gaming retreat this weekend, so I've gotten in several games with Enterprise cards and will hopefully get more.

• We had another game yesterday where Auction got completely ignored, but in a Sea Hag game today, my wife opened Auction/Harbor and was regularly getting $2 or $3 from Auction. I also got one and used the +1 Buy a bunch of times to load up on good $2 cards.
• Convoy isn't getting much love so far this trip, even from me. I should buy it more and see how it goes.
• Bookkeeper seems fine, but unremarkable. I'll play more games with it before deciding if it's worth keeping.
• The new Dignitary is seeming good, although maybe a bit strong. Ben got 3 against my Sea Hag and was trashing Curses pretty effectively. I still won by one VP, but that probably had more to do with my other cards. On the other hand, he said that he ended up putting back junk most of the time and it eventually came back to haunt him. Anyway, seems promising.
• I finally won a game with Profiteer. By a lot, even. It was a Prosperity/Enterprise game with Colonies. I started getting hit pretty hard with Curses eventually, but I was too far ahead at that point. My victory probably had more to do with my Vendors, but at least Profiteer didn't sink me. No other attacks that game.
• Axeman might be too weak. I think I've said this before, but it remains a concern.
• Harbor is seeming OK after a few games. It's a popular buy.
• Magic Mirror is not looking promising. The decision of whether to play or gain a copy of a card is no fun.
• I am the only one buying the new Vendor, but man did it work for me. I pulled Platinum a few times in one game and Sea Hag in another. It's nice to have another Trade token card working out.

I'm thinking of trying a Cathedral-like card (where you get tokens while it's in play by buying certain stuff) that lets you spend two Trade tokens to gain a card. I'm thinking it would either gain a Gold in hand or gain an Action and play it.

[Minotaur]

Is Enterprise going to be canon?  The artwork looks very much in line with Dominion proper, and the more-finalized cards seem about as stable and varied as the real thing.

Harbor is a nice, safe, "feel-good" terminal.

[Minotaur]

• Magic Mirror is not looking promising. The decision of whether to play or gain a copy of a card is no fun.

Have you tried having it copy an Action card in play and trash the Mirror?  Might be more like a $4 card at that point.

i.e.,


Treasure
Cost: $4

$2
You may gain a copy of an Action card you have in play.  If you do, trash this card.

[Minotaur]

• I am the only one buying the new Vendor, but man did it work for me. I pulled Platinum a few times in one game and Sea Hag in another. It's nice to have another Trade token card working out.

$5 Peddler variant... It seems fine, but also seems to depend heavily on whether you have a good source of Trade tokens.  I'm not sure I'd get it over Scavenger, though.  The flexibility of getting the card you want right now exactly with the hand you want it could justify it, maybe.  But I can see it being unpopular.

[LastFootnote]

Is Enterprise going to be canon?  The artwork looks very much in line with Dominion proper, and the more-finalized cards seem about as stable and varied as the real thing.

Canon? As in published? Probably not. I guess anything's possible, but Donald is generally not receptive to fan cards.

• Magic Mirror is not looking promising. The decision of whether to play or gain a copy of a card is no fun.

Have you tried having it copy an Action card in play and trash the Mirror?  Might be more like a $4 card at that point.

i.e.,


Treasure
Cost: $4

$2
You may gain a copy of an Action card you have in play.  If you do, trash this card.

Well, it shouldn't be a Silver+ at $4, but in general I like that idea. It's almost coming back full circle to the original Surveyor (which was my first "gain a copy of a card you have" card.

Surveyor
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Cards. You may discard a non-Victory card. If you do, gain a copy of it and trash this.

$5 Peddler variant... It seems fine, but also seems to depend heavily on whether you have a good source of Trade tokens.  I'm not sure I'd get it over Scavenger, though.  The flexibility of getting the card you want right now exactly with the hand you want it could justify it, maybe.  But I can see it being unpopular.

I'm not sure there's much of a "get it over Scavenger" decision. I mean they're not really mutually exclusive in any way, since Vendor is non-terminal and you can just load up on them. So far it seems like a pretty good $5 value even at one token, but my small sample space did include a game with Platinum. Perhaps it could give two tokens when you gain it.

[LastFootnote]

I had one more 3-player game this morning. All-Enterprise.


Each Domain was worth 3 VP if you had at least two of them, otherwise 0 VP.

We all got $5/$2 splits. I bought Barrister, Liisa bought Axeman, and Michael bought Barracks. I lost my Barrister to the Axeman on turn 3 and foolishly gained a Craftsman to replace it instead of a Silver. Anyhow I never really recovered and lost the game very badly. Michael won, ending the game by giving out all the Curses. The Conscripts were easy to connect with his Barristers and Axemen. He also had 2 of the 3 Domains by the end. It really sucks when the good card you topdeck to an Axeman gets discarded by a Barrister, I'll say that.

[LastFootnote]

Here's a quick state-of-the-set post. I'll update the main post once I've tested some of the new cards more.



EDIT: Updated on 2015/2/13.

[LastFootnote]

I'm thinking of simplifying Convoy. I like that right now you can see the top two cards of your deck before deciding whether to spend a token, but the wordiness of the card is off-putting. Also it's a lot of fiddly-ness to draw, then look at the top three, put two back, draw again, maybe repeat, etc. My current best idea is:

Convoy
Types: Action
Cost: $3
Discard a card. +3 Cards. You may spend a Trade token to play this again.
When you gain this, take a Trade token.

Vendor continues to be unpopular. I'm thinking of buffing it like so:

Vendor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. Look through your discard pile. You may pay a Trade token to put a card from it into your hand.
When you gain this, take a Trade token.

[Minotaur]

Vendor continues to be unpopular. I'm thinking of buffing it like so:

Vendor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. Look through your discard pile. You may pay a Trade token to put a card from it into your hand.
When you gain this, take a Trade token.

Still depends heavily on the availability of trade tokens.  Wording is slightly simplified, which is nice.  It's worded so that you look through your discard pile no matter what, which isn't horrible design, but doesn't strike me as Dominion standard.

[LastFootnote]

Vendor continues to be unpopular. I'm thinking of buffing it like so:

Vendor
Types: Action
Cost: $5
+1 Card. +1 Action. +$1. Look through your discard pile. You may pay a Trade token to put a card from it into your hand.
When you gain this, take a Trade token.

Still depends heavily on the availability of trade tokens.

Well, is it a good enough one-time bonus to buy a $5 Peddler? I thought maybe yes, but perhaps it's not. It could give 2 Trade tokens, I guess.

Wording is slightly simplified, which is nice.  It's worded so that you look through your discard pile no matter what, which isn't horrible design, but doesn't strike me as Dominion standard.

Counting House, Inn, Hermit, and Scavenger all look through your discard pile every time; I think the only comparison point here is Herald. Herald is packed full of text, so even if it were possible to say "look through your discard pile before deciding to overpay", there wouldn't be room for it. Anyhow, Vendor here originally only had you look of you paid the token, but in practice that just makes the ability so much worse (unless you're perfect at tracking your deck). If you don't remember whether there's something worthwhile in your discard pile, you probably won't use the token because your'e afraid of wasting it. Really it just makes sense to let you look before deciding. I was worried it would slow the game down but it hasn't yet. It's pretty easy to pick out the good stuff; you don't spend much time agonizing over whether to fish out e.g. a Curse.

[Minotaur]

I don't know if Vendor actually needs a buff.  The Platinum game is a special case and not worth balancing around, but it still might be good enough, and the crazy combos with Jubilee or even being able to buy two Vendors lets you stock tokens and use them to make finesse plays.  I favor Scavenger a lot - maybe too heavily.  Getting the chosen card in your hand immediately rather than in your next hand seems like it should be a really strong one-shot (or multi-shot if you have Jubilee on the board)

Anyway, if it's balanced, then I wouldn't buff it just to make it more popular.  The extra token would stand out as kind of odd anyway.

As far as the lookthrough goes, Scavenger always makes you put a card on your deck.  Inn always lets you choose any number of cards on buy.  Counting House lets you choose "any number".  Herald is the only example where you have to pay to do something with your discard pile, and you don't get to look and then choose whether to overpay (never mind that there isn't a way to "choose later" X-D ).  Anyway, the "look through and pick one" feels like a single unit, and I feel like Donald would be like, "what, can't remember where your KC is?  Are you asleep?"  But he hates fan sets regardless.

Off topic, but is the art that you use public domain somehow, or from DeviantArt or something else?