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[infangthief]

Alright, it seems this is becoming a big deal.  I recognize (and did recognize when I posted it) that many of you would disagree with what/how I was posting.  I realize that f.ds mafia doesn't like prompting/leading to the next exile.  It might be semantics, but I see a difference with saying "if we exile e today and he's town, then we need to exile MiX tomorrow because he's probably scum then"... and "I think it's quite likely that one of Mix and e are scum - I don't know which one, but I'm fairly sure one of them is".  Some of you seem to think that by saying the 2nd, I'm implying the 1st.  I disagree.

What I posted was my version of a reads list.  As an overall, many of you will post "this person is the scummiest, then this person, then this person... etc. and this is my chummiest", or "these 3 people I'm fairly sure are town, these 2 I think are, these 3 are probably scum, and I'm definitely sure this person is scum".  To me, people don't fit on a sliding scale like that, even D1.  Yes, I see MiX as scummy right now.  Yes, I see e as scummy.  They would probably be my top 2 (though Didds might have jumped ahead of e recently).  But I've got a gut feeling, based on their interactions, posts, and reads, that they cannot be scum together.  So I state that.

Would that be more useful for me to say D2 if we exile one and find out they're town?  Maybe.  But what if I don't make it through N1?  (I'm not counting on flipping as a hatched tree stump!)  Then, even though f.ds usually doesn't look at dead townie players' posts and reads (and I really think they should, and will continue to say that)... at least I've shared my opinions on people *and* my interpreted connections, which start becoming more useful D2.  I recognize that I have some polarizing views, and that might make me a D1 exile or a N1 kill, so I feel that getting my thoughts out there early is more helpful than taking them with me to the abyss (or wherever it is we get exiled to).

If you want to policy-exile me for saying "if not x, then y" on D1, I can't stop you.  But at some point, f.ds will realize that's not me being scummy.  That's just me.  And really, if I was scum trying to stay under the radar, knowing this would raise a flag, would I really say it?  (I know, WIFOM, but still.) 

Ok, useful question. mathdude, do you still play mafia elsewhere (online or in person), or is f.ds the only place you play these days?

I do play fairly regularly with a group of people still.  Often we're in person, but sometimes we use an online site to play virtually.

But now, this post I read pretty scummy. It comes off as being very aware of how he might be perceived and trying to stop any wagon momentum before it picks up. But, I think he misses the point of why he is getting votes.

This is in regard to fang, right? Just asking because you included the Math quote at the bottom.

Swowl, I'm fairly sure gkrieg is talking about mathdude's scumminess here.

[infangthief]

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

[infangthief]

Interesting to see how e doubled down on his gkrieg vote when the mathdude wagon started.

It is like mathdude and e are competing to see who can be scummiest.

[infangthief]

And I feel like it is ages since we've had a vote count.
vote count please

[2.71828.....]

Gkrieg's read-and-reply regarding math feels.... Genuine? But I don't see it as townie.

Just feels like he was about to white knight math then decided to keep some shade going.

Not calling math scum, but just keeping the option alive

Genuine?
White-knighting + shading?
Which one?

Genuine in the sense that he read the first post, reacted one way, then kept reading and reacted another way

[2.71828.....]

Interesting to see how e doubled down on his gkrieg vote when the mathdude wagon started.

It is like mathdude and e are competing to see who can be scummiest.

I will probably lose this one. I don't think math is all that scummy

[J Reggie]

Vote Count 1.3
Did you know? Vote counts now include linked posts!

2.71828..... (3) : Galzria, Dylan32, jotheonah
mathdude (3) : EFHW, Swowl, infangthief
Dylan32 (2) : faust, WestCoastDidds
MiX (2) : gkrieg13, mathdude
gkrieg13 (1) : 2.71828.....
WestCoastDidds (1) : MiX
 
Not voting (1) : scolapasta
 
Currently, 2.71828..... is set to be exiled!  Day 1 ends at February 22, 2022, 09:00:00 am your time.

Galzria has been prodded.

[faust]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

[Galzria]

Wow, yikes. Time slips away when life starts happening.

Today is the second (last) day of the meet Swowl & I are at. I’m busy timing & coaching until mid-afternoon, but I’ve set notifications for myself to make sure I get caught up here tonight once I’m home.

[EFHW]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

[EFHW]

I've forgotten what the case on e is.

[faust]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

[EFHW]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

  By that reasoning no one can ever scumread him.

[gkrieg13]

I like EFHW's 6 posts in a row with questions.

[gkrieg13]

Dylan has posted but refused to answer this question:

I think faust is town. I have a very specific reason for thinking it that is a sort of tell that I have been slowly becoming more convinced about over time (that probably wouldn't be extremely persuasive to anybody else until I go back and get the receipts), but I don't want to give it away just for a D1 early read.

At which point would you be willing to give it away?

I feel like this is not the kind of thing you know in advance.

[gkrieg13]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

I think I agree with you.

[infangthief]

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?
In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

[MiX]

This post makes me feel like math is scum hunting.

Why do you care about math posts beyond this? This seems like a cut and dry strong townread.

you have a cut and dry town read on math, or you think this comes off as GK has a cut and dry town read on Math?

The latter.

I just ISO'd Swowl, wow he has only asked questions this entire game.

Swowl, can you state your conclusions after finding the answers of at least 2 of your questions? You can pick the questions, I just want to see something written from you that isn't a question.

Ooh, ooh, you can start with why you're voting math! That might help others too.

[J Reggie]

6. If a majority exile is not reached by the Day's deadline, a plurality exile takes place. If there is a tie, the player who has had that number of votes for the longest is exiled.

Could you confirm if this is exactly what you mean?
Suppose A has 5 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves off A so that they've got 4 each. B gets exiled because they've been on 4 for longer?
Suppose A has 6 votes and B has 4 votes. Then just before deadline someone moves from A to B so that they've got 5 each. They both hit 5 votes at exactly the same moment. Who gets exiled?
In other games I've seen majority exile tiebreaking done in favour of the player who was most recently in the lead.

Yes, this is exactly what I meant. For your first example, your assumption is correct. For the second example, I will consider a player switching votes to have an implied unvote in between, so A would be exiled.

(I realized when setting up the vote count spreadsheet that the way you said would be simpler and more intuitive. I'm not changing it in the middle of the game though.)

[faust]

This whole fixation on mathdude and e seems unhealthy. e has been townie and mathdude is just someone that can easily be painted as scummy.

Except that is what everyone said last time math was scum.

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.

  By that reasoning no one can ever scumread him.

That's wrong. But I don't see anything that looks particularly scummy there.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m en route and getting caught up.

Swowl, weird that you think I’m not usually a fan of EAL (LAL), but that just means that you’re not paying super close attention to my D1s. Lurking is perhaps the only think I find overtly scummy. That is often where I vote.

But I will submit that an ISO on Dylan will reveal him to have done nothing overtly towny.

[mathdude]

1. Don't wait, wagon was only 2. (Or if you've really not read at all, don't come into the game intending to vote for a default person.)
2. "Enlightening but NAI." So not enlightening. Long paragraph to come up with nothing.
3. The "I agree with faust, by the way" (by gkrieg) was actually an interesting moment, because it had seemed like gkrieg was arguing against faust.
4. If you think this was fluff to look engaged then award scum points!
5. I felt I disagreed with it when I first read it, but I don't know really. Maybe it's ok.
6. gkrieg was saying that you were joking about being anti-town (wanting people to stop posting), not that being jokey is anti-town.
7. Taking my line completely out of context, like it was a read. Ok, that one's the most subjective because it's about my own post. Maybe no-one else got what I was on about either.

So there we go. I've numbered them and would say:
(3), (6) and (7) are just differences in understanding.
(1) and (4) are anti-town, unless they (along with (2) and (5)) are part of some hidden agenda to buddy faust and malign MiX, in which case they are scummy.

1. I wasn't holding off because the wagon was "already up to 2".  It was because there were already about 40 posts when I first read and posted, and it definitely seemed to be moving beyond RVS.  Look at past games, and you'll find I almost always post early and almost always vote MiX in RVS.  I just didn't feel that was appropriate here anymore.  But even through my brief mobile reading, my gut was saying vote him anyway, but I wanted to reread before I did that.  I did reread.  I did follow up with a vote for him.

2. NAI this game, yes.  Still enlightening, helping me see some individual thoughts, and insights into individual metas and the f.ds mafia meta in general.  I know my posts have maybe sounded like I care nothing about meta-play, and have just said "screw it, I'll play my way".  But I am still (and probably always will be) trying to find some reasonable balance between those two.

3. I had been mobile reading/skimming, and didn't pick up that gkrieg was arguing with faust, so I guess that's why it didn't stand out as important to me at the time.  Thanks for clarifying.

4. Fair enough point.  Maybe I should have.

5. *thumbs up!*

6. I misunderstood.  Makes sense now.  Thanks for clarifying.

7. Based on other replied since, I believe I wasn't the only one to misunderstand or take it out of context.  Oh well... moving on.

[mathdude]

I think any sort of "if X is scum Y is town" (along with any other combination of that statement) is premature at best

You're entitled to your opinion.  I think you're wrong.  Those are my thoughts.  So I posted them.

And those were his thoughts. Why so antagonistic?

I didn't intend for it to come across antagonistic.  It was just meant to be in a lighter tone.  I guess I say such things to people IRL all the time, but it wouldn't come across that way to strangers online.

[mathdude]

I agree with fang about mathdude, except for one thing. I'm voting him and fang isn't. Why not? That was part of your criticism of him, that he called things out but didn't vote.

You agree with me about mathdude? Do you agree with this thing I said to mathdude:

I don't have a problem with the format of your reads list, or you saying that you think MiX and e are not both scum. That is all fine in my view (though you need to be prepared for people to ask "why" you think that).

Yes, but when I asked what was behind his MiX/e read, he had nothing to point to. That makes the either/or scummy.

It was mostly a D1 gut read.  I felt like they were on different paths/priorities, but not an intentional "we need to not be connected" type of way.  And at the time I was making those initial thoughts, they seemed to be 2 of the most active.

Looking back now, I found 1 quote from each that probably influenced my reads as well.

There's a wagon on e? Haven't noticed. Have we even gotten a VC yet?

All these MiX votes. Did he do something recently that I should know about?

Or just MiX being MiX

Those two seem to be commenting on the other to stay relevant, but not getting connected.

[mathdude]

We're finally having our family Christmas today... got postponed 3 times from people being sick

Wait, what?? That is a catastrophic chain of illness.

Yup, true story.  In my wife's family, there are 4 siblings, each with kids (many connected to daycare or similar).  So between her parents plus 4 other family units, 2 "units" were sick right at Christmas so we postponed once.  We tried again about 5 days later but one of those still had some illness and a new "unit" was sick.  We tried again part-way into January, but another family was sick then.  And with weekend work schedules (and some vacations), this was the next available weekend.  We had a blast, and it's over now... all grandkids (cousins) had a fun time, and all the parents got to play some fun games together too (like Dominion).