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Author Topic: Actually Passable Card Ideas  (Read 4429 times)

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D782802859

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #75 on: June 10, 2020, 03:01:03 pm »
+1

The wording is weird, you cannot track cards. So I guess you want to say something like „copies of cards„ or whatever but then it does not work either. Simply say non-Horse cards, that is pretty clear.
I don’t get the card though, it just seems like a double worse Upgrade.
I know the wording is weird, it had to be in order to make it so the card functions as it is suppose to without any issues or broken combos. Saying non-horses wouldn't work because they aren't the only problem card with Refine. For example, after playing one Refine border villages cost 7 in your deck and 6 in the supply, so it would be possible to buy one border village and empty the entire supply. Same goes for Falconer.

I'm not sure what you mean though with the tracking issue. While it may be tricky for cards to have different prices depending on where they are, it shouldn't be that confusing. If the card is in the trash, it costs 1 more. If it is in your deck and you haven't gained it this turn, it costs 1 more. If you return a card to its supply the cost returns to normal. I'm not really an expert on tracking issues though, so I would like to hear what you mean.

As for as Refine being a double worse Upgrade, it is worse because it doesn't give you +1 card, but it makes up for it in a few other ways. For one, both the trashing and gaining are optional, which makes it slightly better than the "exactly one more" clause. But the most important thing is the price increase. It makes all your cards more expensive while the supply cards remain the same, so in that way it has synergy with itself and other TfB cards without hurting your buy power (anti-bridge). Of course not getting +1 card is a big negative, but I think the TfB synergy makes up for that.
You have no way of tracking what cards are in your deck. Also, cost increases have issues (interactions with cost reduction, Livery).
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spineflu

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #76 on: June 10, 2020, 03:05:21 pm »
+1

The wording is weird, you cannot track cards. So I guess you want to say something like „copies of cards„ or whatever but then it does not work either. Simply say non-Horse cards, that is pretty clear.
I don’t get the card though, it just seems like a double worse Upgrade.
I know the wording is weird, it had to be in order to make it so the card functions as it is suppose to without any issues or broken combos. Saying non-horses wouldn't work because they aren't the only problem card with Refine. For example, after playing one Refine border villages cost 7 in your deck and 6 in the supply, so it would be possible to buy one border village and empty the entire supply. Same goes for Falconer.

I'm not sure what you mean though with the tracking issue. While it may be tricky for cards to have different prices depending on where they are, it shouldn't be that confusing. If the card is in the trash, it costs 1 more. If it is in your deck and you haven't gained it this turn, it costs 1 more. If you return a card to its supply the cost returns to normal. I'm not really an expert on tracking issues though, so I would like to hear what you mean.


The way the entire cost reduction schemes so far work is that each card, regardless of zone, type, etc, has the same cost as every other copy of that card with the same name*. Even a "your cards cost $1 more this turn" runs into tracking issues with like, Ambassador or Masquerade.

*one further, at any given time, each card has the same text, cost, and abilities as each other copy of that card. This was an issue with the old version of Inheritance.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 03:06:38 pm by spineflu »
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segura

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #77 on: June 10, 2020, 03:36:51 pm »
+1

The wording is weird, you cannot track cards. So I guess you want to say something like „copies of cards„ or whatever but then it does not work either. Simply say non-Horse cards, that is pretty clear.
I don’t get the card though, it just seems like a double worse Upgrade.
I'm not sure what you mean though with the tracking issue. While it may be tricky for cards to have different prices depending on where they are, it shouldn't be that confusing. If the card is in the trash, it costs 1 more. If it is in your deck and you haven't gained it this turn, it costs 1 more. If you return a card to its supply the cost returns to normal. I'm not really an expert on tracking issues though, so I would like to hear what you mean.
There is a village in my discard. I play Workshop to gain a Village, then I play a Smithy and shuffle. Now there is no way to distinguish the „old“ from the „new“ Village in my deck.
As tracking does not work, the basic idea of your card (create cost deltas) does not work either.
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #78 on: June 10, 2020, 04:25:09 pm »
+2

I would eliminate the restriction on cards gained this turn because the tracking doesn't work and just not put it in the same kingdom with Livery (or other cards that make it broken). That's a thing you can do with fan cards.

I have a fan card involving raising the cost of your cards like that, but I don't post it here because raising costs is taboo. I mean, it's never going to be on an official card, but with fan cards we can do what we want with them (like not put them in games together with certain other cards or houserule how it works with cost reducers).

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2020, 05:52:23 pm »
+1

The wording is weird, you cannot track cards. So I guess you want to say something like „copies of cards„ or whatever but then it does not work either. Simply say non-Horse cards, that is pretty clear.
I don’t get the card though, it just seems like a double worse Upgrade.
I know the wording is weird, it had to be in order to make it so the card functions as it is suppose to without any issues or broken combos. Saying non-horses wouldn't work because they aren't the only problem card with Refine. For example, after playing one Refine border villages cost 7 in your deck and 6 in the supply, so it would be possible to buy one border village and empty the entire supply. Same goes for Falconer.

I'm not sure what you mean though with the tracking issue. While it may be tricky for cards to have different prices depending on where they are, it shouldn't be that confusing. If the card is in the trash, it costs 1 more. If it is in your deck and you haven't gained it this turn, it costs 1 more. If you return a card to its supply the cost returns to normal. I'm not really an expert on tracking issues though, so I would like to hear what you mean.


The way the entire cost reduction schemes so far work is that each card, regardless of zone, type, etc, has the same cost as every other copy of that card with the same name*. Even a "your cards cost $1 more this turn" runs into tracking issues with like, Ambassador or Masquerade.

*one further, at any given time, each card has the same text, cost, and abilities as each other copy of that card. This was an issue with the old version of Inheritance.

Thank you for pointing out the issues with tracking and price increase! I've attempted to refine it so the cost increase is simple, but still benefits you in most cases.

Refine
$5
Action

+1 Action
+1 Coin

You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to 1 more than it.
Then, name up to three different supply piles. Cards from these supply piles cost 1 more this turn.

Now, you simply name the supply piles you would like to increase the price of, instead of applying a price increase to all cards in your deck. This should fix all tracking issues and make it easier to follow. This change does make the card worse in that has little utility outside of trashing your bad cards, so it gives you +1 coin to compensate. Also because you are naming a supply pile and not a specific card, there is no way to gain all the horses with Livery. Let me know if this fixes all the issues and if you think the +1 coin is too much.
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Minotaur

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #80 on: June 10, 2020, 07:15:49 pm »
0

I think Refine already has potential self-synergy if you rearrange and remove text.  So my thought is this:

+1 Action
You may name a Supply pile.  Cards from that pile cost $1 more this turn.
You may trash a card from your hand to gain a card costing up to $1 more than it.


This already stacks with itself.  Non-terminal, I guess it can cost $5?  Maybe too cheap for a non-terminal Remodel with stacking power, really not sure on balance or if $6 is balanced or if it's just crazy.


I think I was reading two versions back-to-back and got them smashed together in my head, and then I didn't reload the page and this version more or less was already given.  Overall, it's kind of similar to that new Workshop variant that lowers costs, but for Remodel, so it's fair I think.  Non-terminal at $5 remains questionable for me but idk without testing.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 07:19:49 pm by Minotaur »
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Carline

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #81 on: June 10, 2020, 07:26:51 pm »
+1

The wording is weird, you cannot track cards. So I guess you want to say something like „copies of cards„ or whatever but then it does not work either. Simply say non-Horse cards, that is pretty clear.
I don’t get the card though, it just seems like a double worse Upgrade.
I know the wording is weird, it had to be in order to make it so the card functions as it is suppose to without any issues or broken combos. Saying non-horses wouldn't work because they aren't the only problem card with Refine. For example, after playing one Refine border villages cost 7 in your deck and 6 in the supply, so it would be possible to buy one border village and empty the entire supply. Same goes for Falconer.

I'm not sure what you mean though with the tracking issue. While it may be tricky for cards to have different prices depending on where they are, it shouldn't be that confusing. If the card is in the trash, it costs 1 more. If it is in your deck and you haven't gained it this turn, it costs 1 more. If you return a card to its supply the cost returns to normal. I'm not really an expert on tracking issues though, so I would like to hear what you mean.


The way the entire cost reduction schemes so far work is that each card, regardless of zone, type, etc, has the same cost as every other copy of that card with the same name*. Even a "your cards cost $1 more this turn" runs into tracking issues with like, Ambassador or Masquerade.

*one further, at any given time, each card has the same text, cost, and abilities as each other copy of that card. This was an issue with the old version of Inheritance.

Thank you for pointing out the issues with tracking and price increase! I've attempted to refine it so the cost increase is simple, but still benefits you in most cases.

Refine
$5
Action

+1 Action
+1 Coin

You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to 1 more than it.
Then, name up to three different supply piles. Cards from these supply piles cost 1 more this turn.

Now, you simply name the supply piles you would like to increase the price of, instead of applying a price increase to all cards in your deck. This should fix all tracking issues and make it easier to follow. This change does make the card worse in that has little utility outside of trashing your bad cards, so it gives you +1 coin to compensate. Also because you are naming a supply pile and not a specific card, there is no way to gain all the horses with Livery. Let me know if this fixes all the issues and if you think the +1 coin is too much.

Increase card’s cost is always a source of confusion. Maybe you could achieve your goal of a TFB that becomes better at each play in the same turn with something like this:

Refine
$5
Action

+1 Action
+$1

You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card +$1 for each Refine you have in play.


Because it doesn’t draw, maybe it would be hard to have in hand in the same turn many Refines and their targets to make it improve. A duration version which you may leave in play till you align three of them could be better:

Refine
$5
Action - Duration

+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card +$1 for each Refine you have in play.
------
At Clean-up, if you have less than three Refines in play, you may leave this card in play instead of discard it.


I don't know for sure if this version needs to be $6 cost to be balanced.
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Minotaur

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #82 on: June 10, 2020, 07:31:42 pm »
+1

I once had a few Star Trek parody cards.  "The Bridge" was a sort of backward parody on Bridge:

+3 Actions
Cards not in the Supply cost $1 more this turn.

So it was a super-Necropolis that hurt you and/or a TFB enabler.  I never play tested it and it was probably a dead card on most boards but there you go.

EDIT:  Could also be a reasonable double-edged Ruins/Heirloom.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 09:30:29 pm by Minotaur »
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Minotaur

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #83 on: June 10, 2020, 08:19:30 pm »
+1

Refine
$5
Action

+1 Action
+$1

You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card +$1 for each Refine you have in play.


Because it doesn’t draw, maybe it would be hard to have in hand in the same turn many Refines and their targets to make it improve. A duration version which you may leave in play till you align three of them could be better:

Refine
$5
Action - Duration

+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card +$1 for each Refine you have in play.
------
At Clean-up, if you have less than three Refines in play, you may leave this card in play instead of discard it.


I don't know for sure if this version needs to be $6 cost to be balanced.

These are better as a standalone "stacking Remodel" variant.  If they really wanted a TFB enhancer, the other versions sort of work, but would often fail to do anything extra.  TFB enhancement is sort of an awkward concept, but maybe could work with a split pile as a last resort, somehow.
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spineflu

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #84 on: June 10, 2020, 09:10:31 pm »
+1

i think the best cost increase idea i've read has been a +$1 Cost adventure token (that affects all players). That way it can be a buy deterrent, a TFB enabler, a Remake fizzler, etc, and you just have to make its placement card/landscape not able to put it on the Horse pile.

segura

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #85 on: June 11, 2020, 01:30:30 am »
+1

The wording is weird, you cannot track cards. So I guess you want to say something like „copies of cards„ or whatever but then it does not work either. Simply say non-Horse cards, that is pretty clear.
I don’t get the card though, it just seems like a double worse Upgrade.
I know the wording is weird, it had to be in order to make it so the card functions as it is suppose to without any issues or broken combos. Saying non-horses wouldn't work because they aren't the only problem card with Refine. For example, after playing one Refine border villages cost 7 in your deck and 6 in the supply, so it would be possible to buy one border village and empty the entire supply. Same goes for Falconer.

I'm not sure what you mean though with the tracking issue. While it may be tricky for cards to have different prices depending on where they are, it shouldn't be that confusing. If the card is in the trash, it costs 1 more. If it is in your deck and you haven't gained it this turn, it costs 1 more. If you return a card to its supply the cost returns to normal. I'm not really an expert on tracking issues though, so I would like to hear what you mean.


The way the entire cost reduction schemes so far work is that each card, regardless of zone, type, etc, has the same cost as every other copy of that card with the same name*. Even a "your cards cost $1 more this turn" runs into tracking issues with like, Ambassador or Masquerade.

*one further, at any given time, each card has the same text, cost, and abilities as each other copy of that card. This was an issue with the old version of Inheritance.

Thank you for pointing out the issues with tracking and price increase! I've attempted to refine it so the cost increase is simple, but still benefits you in most cases.

Refine
$5
Action

+1 Action
+1 Coin

You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to 1 more than it.
Then, name up to three different supply piles. Cards from these supply piles cost 1 more this turn.

Now, you simply name the supply piles you would like to increase the price of, instead of applying a price increase to all cards in your deck. This should fix all tracking issues and make it easier to follow. This change does make the card worse in that has little utility outside of trashing your bad cards, so it gives you +1 coin to compensate. Also because you are naming a supply pile and not a specific card, there is no way to gain all the horses with Livery. Let me know if this fixes all the issues and if you think the +1 coin is too much.

Increase card’s cost is always a source of confusion. Maybe you could achieve your goal of a TFB that becomes better at each play in the same turn with something like this:

Refine
$5
Action

+1 Action
+$1

You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card +$1 for each Refine you have in play.


Because it doesn’t draw, maybe it would be hard to have in hand in the same turn many Refines and their targets to make it improve. A duration version which you may leave in play till you align three of them could be better:

Refine
$5
Action - Duration

+1 Action
+$1
You may trash a card from your hand. If you did, you may gain a card costing up to the cost of the trashed card +$1 for each Refine you have in play.
------
At Clean-up, if you have less than three Refines in play, you may leave this card in play instead of discard it.


I don't know for sure if this version needs to be $6 cost to be balanced.
This is a much clearer version. Cost increase is simply something you should not do.
About the strength, as it does not draw and needs cards, I think that it is a weak $5.
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JimJammer

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2020, 11:03:04 am »
0

My friend wanted a card to kill engines ???. I think this should do the job. 20 in the supply. Could maybe add +1 action

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LordBaphomet

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2020, 05:21:39 pm »
0

My friend wanted a card to kill engines ???. I think this should do the job. 20 in the supply. Could maybe add +1 action


Even if you win this is worse then duchies
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2020, 05:48:47 pm »
0

My friend wanted a card to kill engines ???. I think this should do the job. 20 in the supply. Could maybe add +1 action


Even if you win this is worse then duchies
I'd suggest 3 or 4 if you win, and something if you lose as consolation.
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JimJammer

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2020, 08:54:13 am »
0



Here's an update. Note that
  • It now gives +1 action, making it easier to play multiple pyramids a turn
  • I have added the Attack type, this means it now triggers reactions and also it now has 3 types, making it useful with cards like courtier
  • It now gives 3 VP if you win
  • I've priced it at four, so it could have some trash for benefit value
  • clarification for ties
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2020, 03:58:46 am »
+2

A couple more silly but probably playable cards:

a lucky one,
Quote
Unicorn
$4 - Action
+1 Card. +1 VP.
All players receive the next Boon. Discard any number of cards. Gain a Horse for each card you discarded this way.

and an unlucky one
Quote
Monkey's Paw
$4 - Treasure - Victory
Choose one: Gain a Curse and if you do, gain a Wish; or +$2 and the player to your left gains this on top of their deck.
-
Worth 1 VP if you gained this after your last turn of the game. Otherwise, worth -1 VP.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 03:59:59 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Minotaur

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2020, 02:09:30 pm »
+1

A couple more silly but probably playable cards:

a lucky one,
Quote
Unicorn
$4 - Action
+1 Card. +1 VP.
All players receive the next Boon. Discard any number of cards. Gain a Horse for each card you discarded this way.

and an unlucky one
Quote
Monkey's Paw
$4 - Treasure - Victory
Choose one: Gain a Curse and if you do, gain a Wish; or +$2 and the player to your left gains this on top of their deck.
-
Worth 1 VP if you gained this after your last turn of the game. Otherwise, worth -1 VP.

If the bar were higher than this, it would be Very Good Card Ideas.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #92 on: September 09, 2020, 03:05:03 pm »
+1

I was looking at Way of the Chameleon and misread the name, which lead to this:



Probably way too strong, but does require having multiple actions in hand at once to do anything.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 03:18:03 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #93 on: September 09, 2020, 03:20:42 pm »
0

I was looking at Way of the Chameleon and misread the name, which lead to this:



Probably way too strong, but does require having multiple actions in hand at once to do anything.
With this you can make up your deck of just terminal draw cards. Who needs villages anyway?
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Minotaur

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #94 on: September 09, 2020, 03:21:14 pm »
+3

I think "Lighthouse that doesn't make $" would have been actually passable, but WotC as originally presented doesn't really belong here.   ::)
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #95 on: September 09, 2020, 11:33:45 pm »
0

I was looking at Way of the Chameleon and misread the name, which lead to this:



Probably way too strong, but does require having multiple actions in hand at once to do anything.

The image doesn't work for me.
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #96 on: September 10, 2020, 01:03:24 am »
0

I was looking at Way of the Chameleon and misread the name, which lead to this:



Probably way too strong, but does require having multiple actions in hand at once to do anything.

The image doesn't work for me.

It worked earlier and now it doesn't for me either.  It was a Way Of The Champion that does the action part, but just for this turn.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #97 on: September 10, 2020, 03:20:15 pm »
0


The image doesn't work for me.

It worked earlier and now it doesn't for me either.  It was a Way Of The Champion that does the action part, but just for this turn.

Weird. It's hosted on Google Images, and apparently they make it basically impossible to get an actual link to the image. Even if the image is "available to anyone with the link", the link they give you only goes to a page in their site which shows the photo, not a link to the actual photo. And if you right-click to "copy image url", it gives you a url which apparently works for a little while and then suddenly stops working. Fixed now; using some third-party site that allows you to get a fixed url for a Google photo.
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  • Jester
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Re: Actually Passable Card Ideas
« Reply #98 on: September 10, 2020, 04:05:38 pm »
+3

I was looking at Way of the Chameleon and misread the name, which lead to this:



Probably way too strong, but does require having multiple actions in hand at once to do anything.
Strictly better than Ox and utterly broken.
Now a card that says +5 Actions is not that impressive. But in combination with the flexibility of Ways it becomes broken and also pretty boring. Managing terminal space well is one of the usual tasks in Dominion.
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