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[A Drowned Kernel]

Welcome to M126: Something something flavor

Setup:

This game will use an invented open (ish?) setup, detailed in post 2. Criticisms/suggestions of the setup are welcome, changes can be made before the game starts.

Mod:

A Drowned Kernel

Player List:

1. Joseph2302 Mafia Goon- lynched Day Two
2. MiX Vanilla Townie- survived
3. Dylan32- One-shot Cop- survived
4. WestCoastDidds- Vanilla Townie- survived
5. Xxraptorslayer96 Mafia Godfather- lynched Day Three
6. yuma Vanille Townie lynched Day Five
7. faust Vanilla Townie- killed Night Two
8. shraeye Vanilla Townie- killed Night One
9. cayvie ashersky Mafia One-Shot Bulletproof0 lynched Day Six
10. LaLight Vanilla Townie- lynched Day Four
11. DatSwan- Vanilla Townie- survived
12. scolapasta- Universal Backup- survived

The rules of mafia are in effect. The mod is color is green. Day deadlines will be 7 IRL days, night deadlines will be 2 IRL days.

[A Drowned Kernel]

This game will use asher9++, a semi-open 12 player setup made by ashersky.

All possible role descriptions are available here.

[Galzria]

/tag

[Joseph2302]

/in

[MiX]

/in

[silverspawn]

Not that I'm playing, but I don't think this setup is balanced. Town's total power is significantly less than that of two masons, and I wouldn't bet on town if they had 2 masons and rest VTs.

I *think* it's more balanced if all neighborhoods have 3 players.

[Dylan32]

/in

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not that I'm playing, but I don't think this setup is balanced. Town's total power is significantly less than that of two masons, and I wouldn't bet on town if they had 2 masons and rest VTs.

I *think* it's more balanced if all neighborhoods have 3 players.

I considered that, but that would put the overwhelming majority of players in the neigborhoods, which seems odd to me

[WestCoastDidds]

/in

[silverspawn]

Not that I'm playing, but I don't think this setup is balanced. Town's total power is significantly less than that of two masons, and I wouldn't bet on town if they had 2 masons and rest VTs.

I *think* it's more balanced if all neighborhoods have 3 players.

I considered that, but that would put the overwhelming majority of players in the neigborhoods, which seems odd to me

You could also add a Friendly Neighbor as a town PR.

[cayvie]

tbh i think i'm not excited about this one rn because hunger games already has neighborhoods and adding another one sounds like just a lot to keep up with for me!

[A Drowned Kernel]

tbh i think i'm not excited about this one rn because hunger games already has neighborhoods and adding another one sounds like just a lot to keep up with for me!

I'm not married to the setup, if there's something people would rather see I'm open to ideas

[Joseph2302]

Not that I'm playing, but I don't think this setup is balanced. Town's total power is significantly less than that of two masons, and I wouldn't bet on town if they had 2 masons and rest VTs.

I *think* it's more balanced if all neighborhoods have 3 players.

I considered that, but that would put the overwhelming majority of players in the neigborhoods, which seems odd to me

I think that would be fun anyway. Most people know things, but not who to trust in their neighbourhood

Also, I assume neighbourhoods don't get revealed with the flip?

[silverspawn]

fwiw I think the idea of the setup is good, just not the balance.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Not that I'm playing, but I don't think this setup is balanced. Town's total power is significantly less than that of two masons, and I wouldn't bet on town if they had 2 masons and rest VTs.

I *think* it's more balanced if all neighborhoods have 3 players.

I considered that, but that would put the overwhelming majority of players in the neigborhoods, which seems odd to me

I think that would be fun anyway. Most people know things, but not who to trust in their neighbourhood

Also, I assume neighbourhoods don't get revealed with the flip?

No

[Xxraptorslayer96]

/in

[A Drowned Kernel]

Interest seems low for this; would more people join if I switched it to asher++?

[Galzria]

Interest seems low for this; would more people join if I switched it to asher++?

For me personally, even with Quarantine, I feel I really only want to be in one game - which at the moment is Ash's. The actual setup isn't an inhibitor to my joining.

[scolapasta]

Interest seems low for this; would more people join if I switched it to asher++?

For me personally, even with Quarantine, I feel I really only want to be in one game - which at the moment is Ash's. The actual setup isn't an inhibitor to my joining.

same here.

[yuma]

/in

[mail-mi]

/in

Why hello there 

[yuma]

/in

Why hello there 

[cayvie]

/in

Why hello there 

fuck man it's uh been a while

[ashersky]

/in

Dude.

[faust]

/in

Ohmygod /in

[faust]

Interest seems low for this; would more people join if I switched it to asher++?

I have reservations about the setup yes, particularly the balance issues pointed out by silver. I was thinking of asking a friend to join too, but I wanted to fell comfortable about the setup to do that.

[LaLight]

/in

oh my

[Swowl]

Interest seems low for this; would more people join if I switched it to asher++?

So assuming one of the ones I am doing finishes in time I am in for whatever.

That being said... if you do not want to switch this one (which is totally fine)... I, personally, would LOOOOVVVEEE for you to run another one of those GREATER IDEA set ups that you did in the bid/bad/bud series

[A Drowned Kernel]

Interest seems low for this; would more people join if I switched it to asher++?

So assuming one of the ones I am doing finishes in time I am in for whatever.

That being said... if you do not want to switch this one (which is totally fine)... I, personally, would LOOOOVVVEEE for you to run another one of those GREATER IDEA set ups that you did in the bid/bad/bud series

Unfortunately that was kind of a hassle to run and I don't see myself doing again any time soon

[yuma]

/in

Why hello there 

fuck man it's uh been a while

Hey! Tou disappeared for a long time. So did I... When did you get back?

[yuma]

/in

Dude.

Duuudeee. How ya been?

[yuma]

/in

Ohmygod /in

Yay!

[shraeye]

/inininin

[cayvie]

/in

Why hello there 

fuck man it's uh been a while

Hey! Tou disappeared for a long time. So did I... When did you get back?

this year, turns out i timed my return to forum mafia well

[A Drowned Kernel]

I'm going to go ahead and change the setup

[cayvie]

I'm going to go ahead and change the setup

oh in that case

/in

[MiX]

Will you also change the title of the game?

While I'm at it I must say, it's an honor to be in the same game as yuma's revival. I've read a lot about you.

[MiX]

Will you also change the title of the game?

Dammit you're fast.

[ashersky]

/in

Dude.

Duuudeee. How ya been?

Cool. Cool cool cool.

(All six seasons are on Netflix now.)

Mostly inactive, just came back recently myself.

[LaLight]

/in

Dude.

Duuudeee. How ya been?

Cool. Cool cool cool.

(All six seasons are on Netflix now.)

Mostly inactive, just came back recently myself.

WAIT WHAT???

[LaLight]

/in

[ashersky]

/in

Dude.

Duuudeee. How ya been?

You know, with Modern Family ending this week, it may be time for Modern Community 2.

[Swowl]

I will go ahead and /in. Even if it is 2 games for a while... not like I got anything else going on

[scolapasta]

/in if there's still a spot.

[cayvie]

/in if there's still a spot.

i think you hammered

[scolapasta]

/in if there's still a spot.

i think you hammered

My first hammer!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Ok, let's do this. PMs will go out in a little bit.

THREAD LOCKED

[A Drowned Kernel]

PMs will actually go out this evening, sorry for the delay.

[A Drowned Kernel]

PMs are out. Please confirm in your QT during Night Zero by posting anything. Day One will begin at 7 pm US central (8 pm forum time) on April 9th.

Additionally, the setup post now includes a link to all of the possible role descriptions.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Day One Start

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (12): Joseph2302, MiX, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, yuma, faust, shraeye, cayvie, LaLight, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[Joseph2302]

I'm the SK

[Joseph2302]

Vote: LL

[Joseph2302]

What do people think about a mass role claim?

[MiX]

Hi Dylan, haven't seen you in a while, I don't think we even finished a game together!

Vote: Dylan

What do people think about a mass role claim?

I don't wanna.

Also, what's the meta with asher++? I've seen a lot about it but never paid attention to the details. Anything I should know off hand?

[cayvie]

Hi Dylan, haven't seen you in a while, I don't think we even finished a game together!

Vote: Dylan

What do people think about a mass role claim?

I don't wanna.

Also, what's the meta with asher++? I've seen a lot about it but never paid attention to the details. Anything I should know off hand?

IDK I've never played it before. From what I have read, most games seem to turn into discussions of when to mass claim. Also a lot of probability arguments.

There was one infamous example where scum claimed masons day one and rode that to victory. Otherwise I think town usually wins by POE.

But again that's just my perspective from reading, not playing.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Vote: Swan

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy hey!

Scola! I’m glad you’re playing again. And Dylan, it’s been awhile. Yuma, we have not met but everyone seems totally amped to see you. Cool! Raptor, have you replaced Swan’s plate?

[scolapasta]

Thanks! I'm looking forward to yet another baffling Day 1.

[Swowl]

Hey all, welcome back to a lot of you. Good to see you again.

Raptor has not replaced my plate.. but...  Upside of quarantine... like nothing in my house has been broken for the last month!

[cayvie]

What do people think about a mass role claim?

I see no upside tbh

[Joseph2302]

What do people think about a mass role claim?

I see no upside tbh

I wasn't being serious, too early
But, as someone pointed out, this setup often becomes a discussion in probability and "when should we mass claim" discussion

[LaLight]

hey guys!

vote: Joseph

[LaLight]

3 games at the same time, asher9++ setup, is this 2016? i LOVE THAT

usually yeah, people speculate on setup, then we know couple of roles and probabilities come into play. Usually SpaceAnemone or Calamitas counted how probable the roles are and we tried to win with this.

oh, the shower of nostalgia.

[MiX]

Surely there's nothing about the setup that's important day 1, right?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to yet another baffling Day 1.

Vote: scolapasta

[Joseph2302]

Surely there's nothing about the setup that's important day 1, right?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to yet another baffling Day 1.

Vote: scolapasta

You can spend the whole day messing around with maths/probabilities if you want

But doesn't mean that much D1 except for confusing people

[shraeye]

Surely there's nothing about the setup that's important day 1, right?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to yet another baffling Day 1.

Vote: scolapasta

You can spend the whole day messing around with maths/probabilities if you want

But doesn't mean that much D1 except for confusing people

Ya basically

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 1.1

LaLight (1): Joseph2302
DatSwan (1): Xxraptorslayer96
Joseph2302 (1): LaLight
scolapasta (1): MiX
Not Voting (8): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, yuma, faust, shraeye, cayvie, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

[Dylan32]

Hey guys, yeah it's been a while. Current events have me in front of a computer a bit more than my normal amount, so thought I'd come back for a game or so. Vote: LaLight for old times sake.

[Dylan32]

I do have to say, I keep forgetting that I actually did join this game since there was a fairly long gap between saying I was in and it starting, so it may take me a few irl days to get back into the habit of checking f.ds more than once every few days, but I'm gonna do my best!

[cayvie]

I do have to say, I keep forgetting that I actually did join this game since there was a fairly long gap between saying I was in and it starting, so it may take me a few irl days to get back into the habit of checking f.ds more than once every few days, but I'm gonna do my best!

nice! have we played together before? i don't think so. nice to meet you.

[LaLight]

Hey guys, yeah it's been a while. Current events have me in front of a computer a bit more than my normal amount, so thought I'd come back for a game or so. Vote: LaLight for old times sake.

i missed that you're here, man!!! cool. cool cool cool

[yuma]

Hi Guys! Semi-forgot the game was on. I see the set-up changed. I think I was in the game with the mason claiming. I also kinda think it was a low light of my career, but I don't remember much.

It is weird to be back. I am curious how this game will go for me. I'll be honest, sometimes this game brought out stuff in me that I didn't love. Because this can be a pretty intense game, which is why it can be so fun! So I am going to be monitoring myself pretty highly in that regard. I kind of feel like I am a different person since I last played in 2016 (wow! 2016... those were the days).

Also, that was a long time ago and I don't fully remember games/metas/feelings about certain things. Brains are weird. I have half-synapses for shortcuts and phrases and acronyms, but they aren't fully there right now. So treat me like a 1/2-newb for a bit.

Also my feelings about set-ups and strategies I think are a bit different. Mostly I think I am tending more to making games fun and figuring out if things work, so I think I might be more into mass-claiming and other ideas that would throw mafia for a loop and make it harder for them to plan.

But I am not going to force anyone to do anything, but I think it would be fun. So I am all for it if say... 4 other people are up for claiming, I'll join in and really push for it.

[cayvie]

Hi Guys! Semi-forgot the game was on. I see the set-up changed. I think I was in the game with the mason claiming. I also kinda think it was a low light of my career, but I don't remember much.

It is weird to be back. I am curious how this game will go for me. I'll be honest, sometimes this game brought out stuff in me that I didn't love. Because this can be a pretty intense game, which is why it can be so fun! So I am going to be monitoring myself pretty highly in that regard. I kind of feel like I am a different person since I last played in 2016 (wow! 2016... those were the days).

Also, that was a long time ago and I don't fully remember games/metas/feelings about certain things. Brains are weird. I have half-synapses for shortcuts and phrases and acronyms, but they aren't fully there right now. So treat me like a 1/2-newb for a bit.

Also my feelings about set-ups and strategies I think are a bit different. Mostly I think I am tending more to making games fun and figuring out if things work, so I think I might be more into mass-claiming and other ideas that would throw mafia for a loop and make it harder for them to plan.

But I am not going to force anyone to do anything, but I think it would be fun. So I am all for it if say... 4 other people are up for claiming, I'll join in and really push for it.

what about a mass claim where we agree beforehand that the universal backup (if we have one) claims to be a VT? that way scum can't just off our power roles indiscriminately.

[MiX]

Hi Guys! Semi-forgot the game was on. I see the set-up changed. I think I was in the game with the mason claiming. I also kinda think it was a low light of my career, but I don't remember much.

It is weird to be back. I am curious how this game will go for me. I'll be honest, sometimes this game brought out stuff in me that I didn't love. Because this can be a pretty intense game, which is why it can be so fun! So I am going to be monitoring myself pretty highly in that regard. I kind of feel like I am a different person since I last played in 2016 (wow! 2016... those were the days).

Also, that was a long time ago and I don't fully remember games/metas/feelings about certain things. Brains are weird. I have half-synapses for shortcuts and phrases and acronyms, but they aren't fully there right now. So treat me like a 1/2-newb for a bit.

Also my feelings about set-ups and strategies I think are a bit different. Mostly I think I am tending more to making games fun and figuring out if things work, so I think I might be more into mass-claiming and other ideas that would throw mafia for a loop and make it harder for them to plan.

But I am not going to force anyone to do anything, but I think it would be fun. So I am all for it if say... 4 other people are up for claiming, I'll join in and really push for it.

what about a mass claim where we agree beforehand that the universal backup (if we have one) claims to be a VT? that way scum can't just off our power roles indiscriminately.

I agree with this thought but still not the massclaim.

Massclaiming is boring and the only people that know if it's a good thing to do are scum.

[cayvie]

what about a mass claim where we agree beforehand that the universal backup (if we have one) claims to be a VT? that way scum can't just off our power roles indiscriminately.

I agree with this thought but still not the massclaim.

Massclaiming is boring and the only people that know if it's a good thing to do are scum.

can you expand on that second thought? how do scum know if massclaiming is protown or not?

i guess the implicit question is: in what situations would massclaiming be good? in what ones would it be bad? if possible, do you have specific example setups for each?

[MiX]

what about a mass claim where we agree beforehand that the universal backup (if we have one) claims to be a VT? that way scum can't just off our power roles indiscriminately.

I agree with this thought but still not the massclaim.

Massclaiming is boring and the only people that know if it's a good thing to do are scum.

can you expand on that second thought? how do scum know if massclaiming is protown or not?

i guess the implicit question is: in what situations would massclaiming be good? in what ones would it be bad? if possible, do you have specific example setups for each?

If there's no town PRs, massclaiming is great! You lose nothing and gain everything.

If the setup was rolled properly, massclaiming is bad! You lose everything and gain very little, depending on the setup.

I don't like massclaims. Scum have more information than town. Therefore they must know if we're in the good or bad conditions more than town.

[cayvie]

what about a mass claim where we agree beforehand that the universal backup (if we have one) claims to be a VT? that way scum can't just off our power roles indiscriminately.

I agree with this thought but still not the massclaim.

Massclaiming is boring and the only people that know if it's a good thing to do are scum.

can you expand on that second thought? how do scum know if massclaiming is protown or not?

i guess the implicit question is: in what situations would massclaiming be good? in what ones would it be bad? if possible, do you have specific example setups for each?

If there's no town PRs, massclaiming is great! You lose nothing and gain everything.

If the setup was rolled properly, massclaiming is bad! You lose everything and gain very little, depending on the setup.

I don't like massclaims. Scum have more information than town. Therefore they must know if we're in the good or bad conditions more than town.

huh, your instincts on which scenarios are good are exactly opposite to mine. which makes me go from neutral to bearish on pushing for one. because if we can't agree on what scenarios are protown, then supporting-the-massclaim is NAI, no matter what the actual setup turns out to be.

[Swowl]

what about a mass claim where we agree beforehand that the universal backup (if we have one) claims to be a VT? that way scum can't just off our power roles indiscriminately.

I agree with this thought but still not the massclaim.

Massclaiming is boring and the only people that know if it's a good thing to do are scum.

can you expand on that second thought? how do scum know if massclaiming is protown or not?

i guess the implicit question is: in what situations would massclaiming be good? in what ones would it be bad? if possible, do you have specific example setups for each?

If there's no town PRs, massclaiming is great! You lose nothing and gain everything.

If the setup was rolled properly, massclaiming is bad! You lose everything and gain very little, depending on the setup.

I don't like massclaims. Scum have more information than town. Therefore they must know if we're in the good or bad conditions more than town.

huh, your instincts on which scenarios are good are exactly opposite to mine. which makes me go from neutral to bearish on pushing for one. because if we can't agree on what scenarios are protown, then supporting-the-massclaim is NAI, no matter what the actual setup turns out to be.

Just gonna but into this conversation because I have nothing else to do - I will gladly be the one to do some of the set up math!

This is the "scaling list" of skums overall power:
TTTTTT*** = Goon x2 --------------- Everyone claims VT.
TTTTT*** = Goon x2 ---------------- Everyone claims VT, except for the one town PR who paints a target for skum.
-------- So pretty much on the double Goon option... we learn nothing at all. It is not good, in fact it is probably bad. That is the confusion point I think I am having on that.

Moving on...
TTTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker  ------------- Two town PRs claim,
TTT = 1-Shot Strongman; Roleblocker ---------------- Three town PRs claim
----------------So for 3x and 4x T's, we gain the same information. We learn the existence of a 1shot SM and a skum RB in the game. Where as skum learns who is what... bad still.
Next section...
TT = Strongman; Roleblocker ------------------------- Four town PRs Claim
T = Strongman; Roleblocker -------------------------- Five Town PRs Claim
---------So for that section, we could gain the info that skum has the ability to break through a shot as much as they like. But also, they will know who all the PRs are... so yeah.. probably still neg utility.

0 Ts = Strongman; Roleblocker; 1-Shot Bulletproof****
---------Same, except with the actual jump of if there is a vig that is claimed we might be able to figure something out. But as 0 T's are an outlier, and that is a small upside... so not likely


TLDR;
1) There are a FINITE amount of roles variations that skum could have, whereas there are (not doing the addition) a LOT, of roles Town can have. Claiming without reason, honestly even at L-1 situations for individuals in some spots, is just straightforward anti-town in this set up.
2) Skum can always just take the most straightforward apporach of all and just claim VT across the board. Then, when claim is done, they know who has what, and we have... limited the pool down to the VT claims. They pick off the PRs and we sort through the VTs.... which is like literally the same as playing without the info, except on a slightly higher scale, and of course skum doesn't know who has what.
3) Because of the value scale of skum's potential powers vs the value scale of town's potential powers, every piece of the puzzle that is publicly announced is far more valuable for skum than it is town (i.e. example being - Doctor and Cop claim/flip/whatever. A third Town!PR says "YAY, now I know there is at least a 1 shot SM and a RB in skum". Value that vs skum knowing who the cop and doctor are... it isn't worth it).

So yeah - I am against the mass claim idea.

[cayvie]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

[Swowl]

Your logic is sound. Except to the point that scum can always just claim VT which crates a fairly unlikely scenario in regards to isolating claims later on.

Powerrole claiming... i guess like UB claims vt and others claim. But it only has an upside if there are more than 1-2 PRs in town. If there are 2 or less PRs chances are probably about the same field as just going at it straight  no math to back that up - just eyeballing it.

[yuma]

I think my point is that everytime I have ever been mafia I have never actually planned with my teammates on how to coordinate it.

The maths are nice, but only if mafia thought about the maths, came up with a coordinated plan of action and actually performs it. Most scum doesn't do that. At least they didn't in my day. Most scum QTs are like "Hey" "What is up" "Peace" N0. At the most they say, buss me D1.

Going the massclaim route makes scum do something they weren't planning on coordinating with each other. But that is probably all I'll say about it, cause I don't do the maths.

[Dylan32]

I do have to say, I keep forgetting that I actually did join this game since there was a fairly long gap between saying I was in and it starting, so it may take me a few irl days to get back into the habit of checking f.ds more than once every few days, but I'm gonna do my best!

nice! have we played together before? i don't think so. nice to meet you.

I don't think so. Nice to meet you too, and also all the rest of you that I haven't.

Yeah I'm generally against massclaiming, at least this early. I could be wrong, but my gut says it would just be better after we've had a shot of getting info from PRs.

[Swowl]

I think my point is that everytime I have ever been mafia I have never actually planned with my teammates on how to coordinate it.

The maths are nice, but only if mafia thought about the maths, came up with a coordinated plan of action and actually performs it. Most scum doesn't do that. At least they didn't in my day. Most scum QTs are like "Hey" "What is up" "Peace" N0. At the most they say, buss me D1.

Going the massclaim route makes scum do something they weren't planning on coordinating with each other. But that is probably all I'll say about it, cause I don't do the maths.

I mean yeah fair enough can't argue with that. But would you not say that in a scenario where no plan was made that the default mindset for any player as skum (let's say the first one up in claims) would not be to just claim VT?

[faust]

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

I was just going to

Vote: cayvie

and now it looks like OMGUS. Thanks.

[faust]

supporting-the-massclaim is NAI

Indeed it is, and always has been.

I get that we need something to talk about but does it have to be something that won't yield any useful result? We could talk about how cayvie takes some effort to appear helpful without doing anything that really pushes us forward or is at least original.

[faust]

I think my point is that everytime I have ever been mafia I have never actually planned with my teammates on how to coordinate it.

The maths are nice, but only if mafia thought about the maths, came up with a coordinated plan of action and actually performs it. Most scum doesn't do that. At least they didn't in my day. Most scum QTs are like "Hey" "What is up" "Peace" N0. At the most they say, buss me D1.

Going the massclaim route makes scum do something they weren't planning on coordinating with each other. But that is probably all I'll say about it, cause I don't do the maths.

I mean yeah fair enough can't argue with that. But would you not say that in a scenario where no plan was made that the default mindset for any player as skum (let's say the first one up in claims) would not be to just claim VT?

It's one thing to talk about massclaiming, but come on now, we really don't need to be giving out play advice to scum.

[MiX]

It's one thing to talk about massclaiming, but come on now, we really don't need to be giving out play advice to scum.

Ha, Swan is obv!traitor, lynch them!

The only thing I learned with Swan's wall post is that massclaiming gives scum info (wow) and that scum will want to all claim VT. Why they would do this, I have no idea. But hey now I know what to claim, so thanks Swan! Best traitor.

I think my point is that everytime I have ever been mafia I have never actually planned with my teammates on how to coordinate it.

The maths are nice, but only if mafia thought about the maths, came up with a coordinated plan of action and actually performs it. Most scum doesn't do that. At least they didn't in my day. Most scum QTs are like "Hey" "What is up" "Peace" N0. At the most they say, buss me D1.

Going the massclaim route makes scum do something they weren't planning on coordinating with each other. But that is probably all I'll say about it, cause I don't do the maths.

Scum does not plan as much as we think they do, but I'm never taking the chance that someone was there actually putting in effort to try to win against a D1 massclaim.

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

Scum only cares if you're "POWER ROLE" or not, so this claim is just as helpful to scum but much, MUCH worse to town. Scummy points for not thinking about things.

Your logic is sound. Except to the point that scum can always just claim VT which crates a fairly unlikely scenario in regards to isolating claims later on.

Powerrole claiming... i guess like UB claims vt and others claim. But it only has an upside if there are more than 1-2 PRs in town. If there are 2 or less PRs chances are probably about the same field as just going at it straight  no math to back that up - just eyeballing it.

Fluff, fluff and helping scum, Swan really wished he was scum this game. Good job, you just gained town points from this.

My vote on scola is still perfect.

[MiX]

supporting-the-massclaim is NAI

Indeed it is, and always has been.

I get that we need something to talk about but does it have to be something that won't yield any useful result? We could talk about how cayvie takes some effort to appear helpful without doing anything that really pushes us forward or is at least original.

Why do you think cayvie wouldn't do this as town? Seems on character for her.

[Joseph2302]

I think my point is that everytime I have ever been mafia I have never actually planned with my teammates on how to coordinate it.

The maths are nice, but only if mafia thought about the maths, came up with a coordinated plan of action and actually performs it. Most scum doesn't do that. At least they didn't in my day. Most scum QTs are like "Hey" "What is up" "Peace" N0. At the most they say, buss me D1.

Going the massclaim route makes scum do something they weren't planning on coordinating with each other. But that is probably all I'll say about it, cause I don't do the maths.

I mean yeah fair enough can't argue with that. But would you not say that in a scenario where no plan was made that the default mindset for any player as skum (let's say the first one up in claims) would not be to just claim VT?

It's one thing to talk about massclaiming, but come on now, we really don't need to be giving out play advice to scum.

Agreed. Also, it wasn't a serious suggestion to mass claim right now

[WestCoastDidds]

supporting-the-massclaim is NAI

Indeed it is, and always has been.

I get that we need something to talk about but does it have to be something that won't yield any useful result? We could talk about how cayvie takes some effort to appear helpful without doing anything that really pushes us forward or is at least original.

Dude, that’s cold.

Vote: faust

[cayvie]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

Scum only cares if you're "POWER ROLE" or not, so this claim is just as helpful to scum but much, MUCH worse to town. Scummy points for not thinking about things.

wanna clarify: i'm literally suggesting that everyone say "I'm VT or cop" or "I'm VT or doctor" or "I'm VT or vigilante"

people with power roles claiming "I'm VT or (my actual power role)" and VT/UB claiming "I'm VT or (made up power role)"

[MiX]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

Scum only cares if you're "POWER ROLE" or not, so this claim is just as helpful to scum but much, MUCH worse to town. Scummy points for not thinking about things.

wanna clarify: i'm literally suggesting that everyone say "I'm VT or cop" or "I'm VT or doctor" or "I'm VT or vigilante"

people with power roles claiming "I'm VT or (my actual power role)" and VT/UB claiming "I'm VT or (made up power role)"

Oh wait this is a good idea! Scum points! If you can't tell, I have a blind spot for reading you.

What would masons claim?

[cayvie]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

Scum only cares if you're "POWER ROLE" or not, so this claim is just as helpful to scum but much, MUCH worse to town. Scummy points for not thinking about things.

wanna clarify: i'm literally suggesting that everyone say "I'm VT or cop" or "I'm VT or doctor" or "I'm VT or vigilante"

people with power roles claiming "I'm VT or (my actual power role)" and VT/UB claiming "I'm VT or (made up power role)"

Oh wait this is a good idea! Scum points! If you can't tell, I have a blind spot for reading you.

What would masons claim?

yeah that was the problem i saw too. it felt awkward for masons. didn't really have a good solution.

i mean maybe it does force masons to basically claim d1, but that's not the worst thing right? seems like they do that fairly frequently anyway. and if you're a VT and someone before you in the claim order claims "vt or Mason" that opens up "vt or Mason" claims to you, right? so it's really only truly terrible if the masons are the last two people to claim.

[MiX]

Thinking about it some more, I don't think it harms scum enough nor helps town enough for the effort in convincing town to go with this plan, so I'm against it.

In fact, it's anti-town. I can expand on this much later in the game if it's necessary. Have some more scummy points.

PPE: Forcing any claim is pretty much the worst case scenario.

[yuma]

vote: mix for saying not thinking things through is scummy. Spit balling is what town does. Throw out ideas and see what sticks. Scum thinks things through carefully because they know more.

[MiX]

vote: mix for saying not thinking things through is scummy. Spit balling is what town does. Throw out ideas and see what sticks. Scum thinks things through carefully because they know more.

The plan I thought cayvie had thought of was insanely bad to the point where cayvie would never say that if she was town, but could if she was scum because then she doesn't need to care if what she's saying makes sense or not.

[faust]

vote: mix for saying not thinking things through is scummy. Spit balling is what town does. Throw out ideas and see what sticks. Scum thinks things through carefully because they know more.

The plan I thought cayvie had thought of was insanely bad to the point where cayvie would never say that if she was town, but could if she was scum because then she doesn't need to care if what she's saying makes sense or not.

But the point is exactly that scum needs to care way more about whether they're making sense than town.

[MiX]

vote: mix for saying not thinking things through is scummy. Spit balling is what town does. Throw out ideas and see what sticks. Scum thinks things through carefully because they know more.

The plan I thought cayvie had thought of was insanely bad to the point where cayvie would never say that if she was town, but could if she was scum because then she doesn't need to care if what she's saying makes sense or not.

But the point is exactly that scum needs to care way more about whether they're making sense than town.

Town!cayvie thinks enough to not say what I thought she was saying. Town wants to be right, so they'll think through things, and cayvie's smarter than to say what I thought she said.

[Swowl]

vote: mix for saying not thinking things through is scummy. Spit balling is what town does. Throw out ideas and see what sticks. Scum thinks things through carefully because they know more.

The plan I thought cayvie had thought of was insanely bad to the point where cayvie would never say that if she was town, but could if she was scum because then she doesn't need to care if what she's saying makes sense or not.

But the point is exactly that scum needs to care way more about whether they're making sense than town.

+1. also MiX... your stream of nonsense posts is obviously off the top of your head. So if "town cares about being elegant and correct", then are you just soft claiming skum here?

[Swowl]

also is MiX trolling me or am I actually missing something in the set up? There cannot be a traitor in this game.. right?

[MiX]

vote: mix for saying not thinking things through is scummy. Spit balling is what town does. Throw out ideas and see what sticks. Scum thinks things through carefully because they know more.

The plan I thought cayvie had thought of was insanely bad to the point where cayvie would never say that if she was town, but could if she was scum because then she doesn't need to care if what she's saying makes sense or not.

But the point is exactly that scum needs to care way more about whether they're making sense than town.

+1. also MiX... your stream of nonsense posts is obviously off the top of your head. So if "town cares about being elegant and correct", then are you just soft claiming skum here?

What nonsense? I stand by the scumpoints I gave cayvie had I read her post correctly. I would do it again had I the option.

also is MiX trolling me or am I actually missing something in the set up? There cannot be a traitor in this game.. right?

I am, or I would've voted for you and then be voted for saying "traitor" in a traitor setup.

[Swowl]

Fair enough.

I feel like your string of previous posts was very on the offensive, which for you checks out NAI. I don't agree with your logic, but again that checks out.

Just to clarify - do you think Cayvie's claim idea is good, or do you think organizing any claims is bad? or both I guess?

[MiX]

Fair enough.

I feel like your string of previous posts was very on the offensive, which for you checks out NAI. I don't agree with your logic, but again that checks out.

Just to clarify - do you think Cayvie's claim idea is good, or do you think organizing any claims is bad? or both I guess?

I think cayvie's idea is bad, but not scummy. Overall I like cayvie's effort as the plan looked very good on paper. I have no idea what that says about cayvie overall.

I was on the offensive because I was explaining my thought process. I changed my mind a lot so it's fair if someone wanted a clarification.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I'm against any D1 claims, but I can appreciate Cayvies creative idea for claiming.

[cayvie]

also is MiX trolling me or am I actually missing something in the set up? There cannot be a traitor in this game.. right?

no actually every T that is rolled is a traitor, there can be six traitors

(no there's no traitors)

also i'm realizing i have a tendency to townread MiX regardless of alignment so i'm going to step back and recalibrate there

I'm against any D1 claims, but I can appreciate Cayvies creative idea for claiming.

i always got "most original!" and "most creative!" awards in elementary school

as an adult, i realize that those awards meant "didn't follow the instructions"

[MiX]

also i'm realizing i have a tendency to townread MiX regardless of alignment so i'm going to step back and recalibrate there

Remember this when I flip town D1. This is towny by itself, however.

It also feels weird that you have a game where you were trying to reading me but I don't have one where I was trying to reading you.

[cayvie]

also i'm realizing i have a tendency to townread MiX regardless of alignment so i'm going to step back and recalibrate there

Remember this when I flip town D1. This is towny by itself, however.

It also feels weird that you have a game where you were trying to reading me but I don't have one where I was trying to reading you.

man that's fatalistic

did you used to get mislynched a lot or something? i haven't seen it happen yet, yet here you are with like 2 votes on you.

[yuma]

also i'm realizing i have a tendency to townread MiX regardless of alignment so i'm going to step back and recalibrate there

Remember this when I flip town D1. This is towny by itself, however.

It also feels weird that you have a game where you were trying to reading me but I don't have one where I was trying to reading you.

man that's fatalistic

did you used to get mislynched a lot or something? i haven't seen it happen yet, yet here you are with like 2 votes on you.

2 votes is a bit much to be worried about flipping anything at all

[MiX]

also i'm realizing i have a tendency to townread MiX regardless of alignment so i'm going to step back and recalibrate there

Remember this when I flip town D1. This is towny by itself, however.

It also feels weird that you have a game where you were trying to reading me but I don't have one where I was trying to reading you.

man that's fatalistic

did you used to get mislynched a lot or something? i haven't seen it happen yet, yet here you are with like 2 votes on you.

I don't remember a town game in which I haven't had to fight a significant wagon on me, and I still haven't recovered from the L-2 quickhammer, so I'm a bit paranoid.

Besides, I like the drama. Living on the edge is how you're properly read, after all. I base a lot of my town play on "what would I absolutely hate to do as scum" and it pays off, I hate acting towny as scum because if it.

[MiX]

also i'm realizing i have a tendency to townread MiX regardless of alignment so i'm going to step back and recalibrate there

Remember this when I flip town D1. This is towny by itself, however.

It also feels weird that you have a game where you were trying to reading me but I don't have one where I was trying to reading you.

man that's fatalistic

did you used to get mislynched a lot or something? i haven't seen it happen yet, yet here you are with like 2 votes on you.

I don't remember a town game in which I haven't had to fight a significant wagon on me, and I still haven't recovered from the L-2 quickhammer, so I'm a bit paranoid.

Besides, I like the drama. Living on the edge is how you're properly read, after all. I base a lot of my town play on "what would I absolutely hate to do as scum" and it pays off, I hate acting towny as scum because if it.

This is all about day 1, by the way. Everything changes when the scum attack at night.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 1.2

LaLight (2): Joseph2302, Dylan32
DatSwan (1): Xxraptorslayer96
Joseph2302 (1): LaLight
scolapasta (1): MiX
faust (2): cayvie, WestCoastDidds
cayvie (1): faust
MiX (1): yuma
Not Voting (3): shraeye, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

[shraeye]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

[yuma]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

Fun! Let's follow you!

[Swowl]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

could you elaborate on how in the bloody hell you see this playing out in a favorable way for town?

[faust]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

could you elaborate on how in the bloody hell you see this playing out in a favorable way for town?

Could you elaborate on how in the bloody hell you see shraeye answering that question playing out in a favorable way for town?

[yuma]

Oh. That is good.

[Swowl]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

could you elaborate on how in the bloody hell you see this playing out in a favorable way for town?

Could you elaborate on how in the bloody hell you see shraeye answering that question playing out in a favorable way for town?

I could. But also I admit I did not think the situation all the way through. Have now. Question is withdrawn, for now at least. Carry on.

[cayvie]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

i... think i kind of want to hug you right now. that's a really cool move, shraeye.

[LaLight]

vote: DatSwan for his reaction

[MiX]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

i... think i kind of want to hug you right now. that's a really cool move, shraeye.

It's a shraeye move, but not a town!shraeye move. I'm interested in seeing what happens, but I think it's scummy.

Prod: scolapasta, my scola vote is still perfect.

vote: DatSwan for his reaction

I agree with this the more I think about it.

[Joseph2302]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

i... think i kind of want to hug you right now. that's a really cool move, shraeye.

Vote: shraeye
Don't see how it's a good town move right now

[faust]

Vote: LaLight for their reaction

[yuma]

I will reiterate my vote on MiX

[A Drowned Kernel]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

i... think i kind of want to hug you right now. that's a really cool move, shraeye.

It's a shraeye move, but not a town!shraeye move. I'm interested in seeing what happens, but I think it's scummy.

Prod: scolapasta, my scola vote is still perfect.

vote: DatSwan for his reaction

I agree with this the more I think about it.

Prod sent

[MiX]

I will reiterate my vote on MiX

That's just a phase every newcomer has to come through if they get scum. I look like a D1 wagon, don't I? Well, I am, but good luck pushing it through without getting caught in the process.

What was scummy of my previous post?

[scolapasta]

Sorry, no posts. Weekends not always best for me.

That, and I have nothing but random thoughts. (and which may be wrong based on my (mis?) understanding of the setup rules.

I agree mass claiming D1 seems bad.

I'm not in love with shraeye's claiming Cop, but I don't hate it either. Either there's a doctor who saves him, or we learn there's not and if there's a universal backup they become cop (with now the knowledge that there's no doctor).

Or he's scum, but then the real cop can claim and we know 1 of the two.

So seems more likely town than not to me.

Not ready to vote yet.

[Swowl]

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

[Swowl]

to all that care...

HAPPY EASTER

[Joseph2302]

Sorry, no posts. Weekends not always best for me.

That, and I have nothing but random thoughts. (and which may be wrong based on my (mis?) understanding of the setup rules.

I agree mass claiming D1 seems bad.

I'm not in love with shraeye's claiming Cop, but I don't hate it either. Either there's a doctor who saves him, or we learn there's not and if there's a universal backup they become cop (with now the knowledge that there's no doctor).

Or he's scum, but then the real cop can claim and we know 1 of the two.

So seems more likely town than not to me.

Not ready to vote yet.

There could be more than 1 cop in the game, so another cop claim wouldn't guarantee shraeye is lying

[scolapasta]

Sorry, no posts. Weekends not always best for me.

That, and I have nothing but random thoughts. (and which may be wrong based on my (mis?) understanding of the setup rules.

I agree mass claiming D1 seems bad.

I'm not in love with shraeye's claiming Cop, but I don't hate it either. Either there's a doctor who saves him, or we learn there's not and if there's a universal backup they become cop (with now the knowledge that there's no doctor).

Or he's scum, but then the real cop can claim and we know 1 of the two.

So seems more likely town than not to me.

Not ready to vote yet.

There could be more than 1 cop in the game, so another cop claim wouldn't guarantee shraeye is lying

Good point. Not that Shraeye would know that, but it would make revealing maybe good for town? Having one uniformed cop to trust and one undercover as backup?

[cayvie]

1. Joseph2302
2. MiX
3. Dylan32
4. WestCoastDidds
5. Xxraptorslayer96
6. yuma
7. faust
8. shraeye
9. cayvie
10. LaLight
11. DatSwan
12. scolapasta

narrowing down my preferred lynch list!

Sorry, no posts. Weekends not always best for me.

That, and I have nothing but random thoughts. (and which may be wrong based on my (mis?) understanding of the setup rules.

I agree mass claiming D1 seems bad.

I'm not in love with shraeye's claiming Cop, but I don't hate it either. Either there's a doctor who saves him, or we learn there's not and if there's a universal backup they become cop (with now the knowledge that there's no doctor).

Or he's scum, but then the real cop can claim and we know 1 of the two.

So seems more likely town than not to me.

Not ready to vote yet.

There could be more than 1 cop in the game, so another cop claim wouldn't guarantee shraeye is lying

Good point. Not that Shraeye would know that, but it would make revealing maybe good for town? Having one uniformed cop to trust and one undercover as backup?

i mean it's just infinite wifom, right? and an invitation to... *dun dun dun*... setup probability arguments

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

[cayvie]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

i was hoping you'd be around to chat with today!

i mean can you blame me? you've hardly posted at all! share some of those thoughts

[Joseph2302]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

Vote: WCD

[MiX]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

Vote: WCD

You, sir, are not hiding in the shadows. What's wrong?

Vote: Joseph

[WestCoastDidds]

Indeed, vote: Joseph

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

i was hoping you'd be around to chat with today!

i mean can you blame me? you've hardly posted at all! share some of those thoughts

True fact. This is my third game so I’m spread a bit thin and not feeling terribly engaged.

That said, I feel like MiX is being MiX. But Raptor...he’s a plate breaker. And Joseph, he told us he was the SK. Let’s believe him!

[MiX]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

i was hoping you'd be around to chat with today!

i mean can you blame me? you've hardly posted at all! share some of those thoughts

True fact. This is my third game so I’m spread a bit thin and not feeling terribly engaged.

That said, I feel like MiX is being MiX. But Raptor...he’s a plate breaker. And Joseph, he told us he was the SK. Let’s believe him!

What does me being me and raptor breaking a plate some months ago have to do with this game? I've been me for a loooong time, and same with raptor's situation.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

i was hoping you'd be around to chat with today!

i mean can you blame me? you've hardly posted at all! share some of those thoughts

True fact. This is my third game so I’m spread a bit thin and not feeling terribly engaged.

That said, I feel like MiX is being MiX. But Raptor...he’s a plate breaker. And Joseph, he told us he was the SK. Let’s believe him!

What does me being me and raptor breaking a plate some months ago have to do with this game? I've been me for a loooong time, and same with raptor's situation.

I don’t think you’re being scummy. I’d take you off the list.

Raptor is still stained by his transgression so more scummy.

[yuma]

That's just a phase every newcomer has to come through if they get scum. I look like a D1 wagon, don't I? Well, I am, but good luck pushing it through without getting caught in the process.

What was scummy of my previous post?

This:

vote: DatSwan for his reaction

I agree with this the more I think about it.

And this:

That's just a phase every newcomer has to come through if they get scum.

And this:

Well, I am, but good luck pushing it through without getting caught in the process.

And this:

What was scummy of my previous post?

[MiX]

That's just a phase every newcomer has to come through if they get scum. I look like a D1 wagon, don't I? Well, I am, but good luck pushing it through without getting caught in the process.

What was scummy of my previous post?

This:

vote: DatSwan for his reaction

I agree with this the more I think about it.

And this:

That's just a phase every newcomer has to come through if they get scum.

And this:

Well, I am, but good luck pushing it through without getting caught in the process.

And this:

What was scummy of my previous post?

Thank you for clarifying. I'll keep being scummy in that specific way. I love it too much.

[shraeye]

Sure sounds like MiX wants votes

vote: MiX

[Dylan32]

Sorry for the Easter weekend semi-vla. Catching up now.

[scolapasta]

i mean it's just infinite wifom, right? and an invitation to... *dun dun dun*... setup probability arguments

This game is always just infinite wifom, though, no? I'm ok with probability arguments, just don't understand the setup enough to make them myself.

[Joseph2302]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

Vote: WCD

You, sir, are not hiding in the shadows. What's wrong?

Vote: Joseph

I don't usually hide in the shadows....

[Joseph2302]

i mean it's just infinite wifom, right? and an invitation to... *dun dun dun*... setup probability arguments

This game is always just infinite wifom, though, no? I'm ok with probability arguments, just don't understand the setup enough to make them myself.

Somewhat, yes it is

[Joseph2302]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

Vote: WCD

You, sir, are not hiding in the shadows. What's wrong?

Vote: Joseph

I don't usually hide in the shadows....

In fact random voting to responses like this is a very common thing for me to do D1

[Dylan32]

Interesting couple of pages. Going to leave my vote on LL as a real vote for now.

[shraeye]

Interesting couple of pages. Going to leave my vote on LL as a real vote for now.

why's that?

[faust]

3. Dylan32

Whatever did Dylan do that warrants their erasure from the lynch list?

[MiX]

Joseph's right enough.

Vote: scolapasta, he's not town. That's all I need to vote.

[scolapasta]

Joseph's right enough.

Vote: scolapasta, he's not town. That's all I need to vote.

Every time*, my non-towniness is expressed with such certainty.

* 2 out of 2, very small sample set

How are you so certain?

[MiX]

Joseph's right enough.

Vote: scolapasta, he's not town. That's all I need to vote.

Every time*, my non-towniness is expressed with such certainty.

* 2 out of 2, very small sample set

How are you so certain?

You haven't said anything about anyone this game.

[cayvie]

3. Dylan32

Whatever did Dylan do that warrants their erasure from the lynch list?

I just don't wanna day 1 lunch somebody on their first day back

[scolapasta]

Joseph's right enough.

Vote: scolapasta, he's not town. That's all I need to vote.

Every time*, my non-towniness is expressed with such certainty.

* 2 out of 2, very small sample set

How are you so certain?

You haven't said anything about anyone this game.

Not entirely accurate, but accurate enough. It's mostly because I don't have much of a read on anyone, which the more you play with me, you'll learn is how I feel about D1s in general.

I mean besides random (seeming) voting all we've had is a some discussion on whether to mass claim. While I don't think it makes sense to, I'm not convinced that someone who argues for it is doing that because they're scum. Sure, it's something to keep track of for later, but for right now? Seems pretty flimsy evidence.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 1.3

LaLight (3): Dylan32, faust, DatSwan
DatSwan (2): Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight
faust (1): cayvie
MiX (2): yuma, shraeye
WestCoastDidds (1): Joseph2302
Joseph2302 (1): WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (1): MiX
Not Voting (1): scolapasta

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Catching up in the next few hours!

[MiX]

Okay, I have reread the thread a bunch of times and ISO'd more people than I can count.

Vote: Swan, bad setup analysis Swan is scum!Swan IIRC.

[yuma]

Floppity flip

[WestCoastDidds]

Floppity flip

MiX is very flip floppy

[shraeye]

Catching up in the next few hours!

Great!

[Swowl]

Okay, I have reread the thread a bunch of times and ISO'd more people than I can count.

Vote: Swan, bad setup analysis Swan is scum!Swan IIRC.

yes yes mix votes swan day 1 whatever... what is wrong with my set up analysis though exactly?

[faust]

Vote: MiX

[MiX]

Okay, I have reread the thread a bunch of times and ISO'd more people than I can count.

Vote: Swan, bad setup analysis Swan is scum!Swan IIRC.

yes yes mix votes swan day 1 whatever... what is wrong with my set up analysis though exactly?

#77 is outright saying what you think scum should do. I would not have come to the conclusion that scum would all claim VT, yet everything said here is based on scum doing only this.

It's possible that #79 had the same misinterpretation I had of cayvie's previous post, but otherwise I don't understand what he was trying to convey here. The point of cayvie's plan was to lock scum into a specific PR while giving doctors and roleblockers hopefully better targets, it has nothing to do with the amount of PRs that exist. Of course any claim plan will have less of an impact if there's not enough PRs, but that's all of them, not specific to cayvie's plan.

Then I don't like any of your posts since then, but I've tried to explain why and it's pretty flimsy. I guess you can be town, meh, I just like LaLight's vote and I wanna sheep it.

Vote: MiX

Original. One day this will get you scumread, you know.

[faust]

Vote: MiX

Original. One day this will get you scumread, you know.

But that day is not now!

[faust]

Catching up in the next few hours!

Empty promises.

[Joseph2302]

Do things, people

Nothing to comment on

[MiX]

Do things, people

Nothing to comment on

Which one of Swan/LL would you vote for?

[scolapasta]

I'll try to review some time tonight and see who I'd prefer to vote for.

[yuma]

Do things, people

Nothing to comment on

Maybe we are all waiting for you?

[Dylan32]

It intrigues me that a couple of the people that read scummiest to me have been going back and forth at each other a bit so far. Not sure if it's distancing or just very rusty reading instincts.

[Swowl]

Okay, I have reread the thread a bunch of times and ISO'd more people than I can count.

Vote: Swan, bad setup analysis Swan is scum!Swan IIRC.

yes yes mix votes swan day 1 whatever... what is wrong with my set up analysis though exactly?

#77 is outright saying what you think scum should do. I would not have come to the conclusion that scum would all claim VT, yet everything said here is based on scum doing only this.

It's possible that #79 had the same misinterpretation I had of cayvie's previous post, but otherwise I don't understand what he was trying to convey here. The point of cayvie's plan was to lock scum into a specific PR while giving doctors and roleblockers hopefully better targets, it has nothing to do with the amount of PRs that exist. Of course any claim plan will have less of an impact if there's not enough PRs, but that's all of them, not specific to cayvie's plan.

Then I don't like any of your posts since then, but I've tried to explain why and it's pretty flimsy. I guess you can be town, meh, I just like LaLight's vote and I wanna sheep it.

1) VT fake claim from skum is fairly accepted standard for day 1 mass claims in a C9 set up. Nothing far fetched about that. Also, we have done this dance before. You are aware this is how I skum hunt, I try to think what I would do as skum. Thus the opening post where I was like "someone is gonna come in and say 'its skummy that you are thinking like skum'".

2) I already admitted to responding to Cayvie's plan prior to understanding exactly what she meant. She elaborated on it, and I dialed it back.

3) fair enough, sheep away.

[MiX]

2) I already admitted to responding to Cayvie's plan prior to understanding exactly what she meant. She elaborated on it, and I dialed it back.

Where is this?

My problem is my scumreads are bad D1 lynches so my vote feels kinda useless...

[yuma]

2) I already admitted to responding to Cayvie's plan prior to understanding exactly what she meant. She elaborated on it, and I dialed it back.

Where is this?

My problem is my scumreads are bad D1 lynches so my vote feels kinda useless...

Who dat?

[MiX]

1) VT fake claim from skum is fairly accepted standard for day 1 mass claims in a C9 set up. Nothing far fetched about that. Also, we have done this dance before. You are aware this is how I skum hunt, I try to think what I would do as skum. Thus the opening post where I was like "someone is gonna come in and say 'its skummy that you are thinking like skum'".

Also this isn't scumhunting. In fact it's kinda the opposite since you're opening up your argument after a potential massclaim to be turned down to WIFOM since you said that publically.

Why is your vote on LL?

2) I already admitted to responding to Cayvie's plan prior to understanding exactly what she meant. She elaborated on it, and I dialed it back.

Where is this?

My problem is my scumreads are bad D1 lynches so my vote feels kinda useless...

Who dat?

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Same old D1 schmooze.. I don't think that we are going to claim today. I'm very intrigued by shraeye cop claim thing, so i kinda want to see how that plays out.

Vote: Faust

Catching up in the next few hours!

Empty promises.

You are incorrect good sir, guess we just have different definitions of a few..
jk yeah I totally lost track of time.



 

[Dylan32]

Vote: raptor

[MiX]

Vote: raptor

Vote: Dylan

[Swowl]

1) VT fake claim from skum is fairly accepted standard for day 1 mass claims in a C9 set up. Nothing far fetched about that. Also, we have done this dance before. You are aware this is how I skum hunt, I try to think what I would do as skum. Thus the opening post where I was like "someone is gonna come in and say 'its skummy that you are thinking like skum'".

Also this isn't scumhunting. In fact it's kinda the opposite since you're opening up your argument after a potential massclaim to be turned down to WIFOM since you said that publically.

Why is your vote on LL?

2) I already admitted to responding to Cayvie's plan prior to understanding exactly what she meant. She elaborated on it, and I dialed it back.

Where is this?

My problem is my scumreads are bad D1 lynches so my vote feels kinda useless...

Who dat?

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

openly stated I am omgus voting LL when I did it.
also, my methods of hunting, while you may not accept them, have purpose. stating the set up stuff publicly is needed in order to get it off the ground, because if it is not public, there is nothing to be gained. WIMFO will always exist regardless of the method, so that point is pretty null tbh.

[MiX]

openly stated I am omgus voting LL when I did it.

I don't get it. Do you think he's scum? Do you think his vote is scummy? Do you think your vote is applying pressure and thus it's well placed? OMGUS is just a scum maneuver, town has no reason to vote for someone because they voted for them.

Vote: Swan

[shraeye]

Do things, people

Nothing to comment on

Which one of Swan/LL would you vote for?

as of right now, probably neither

[Swowl]

openly stated I am omgus voting LL when I did it.

I don't get it. Do you think he's scum? Do you think his vote is scummy? Do you think your vote is applying pressure and thus it's well placed? OMGUS is just a scum maneuver, town has no reason to vote for someone because they voted for them.

Vote: Swan

I am ok with you not getting it.

[MiX]

openly stated I am omgus voting LL when I did it.

I don't get it. Do you think he's scum? Do you think his vote is scummy? Do you think your vote is applying pressure and thus it's well placed? OMGUS is just a scum maneuver, town has no reason to vote for someone because they voted for them.

Vote: Swan

I am ok with you not getting it.

Then you are deliberately choosing to not answer my previous question on why you voted LL. That's fine, whatever, don't help me, I'll just be voting you for the near future doing nothing pro-you.

[yuma]

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

Well, I guess it is because I feel like you are withholding information if you aren't actively sharing who you think is mafia. There are some counter argument to make here about in-game mechanics but they why bring it up in the first place. There isn't anything such thing as a bad D1 lynch. Well maybe individuals that have claimed, but even then they aren't off the table. What makes them bad lynches? Seems like you have already picked who you want to get lynched and who you don't. That isn't a townie mindset.

You are the one that brought up you had scumreads on people but didn't want to vote for them. I didn't bring it up. You did. I just would like to know now that you mention it. Maybe I share a scumread on one of them? Or someone else does? Who knows?!?!

[MiX]

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

Well, I guess it is because I feel like you are withholding information if you aren't actively sharing who you think is mafia. There are some counter argument to make here about in-game mechanics but they why bring it up in the first place. There isn't anything such thing as a bad D1 lynch. Well maybe individuals that have claimed, but even then they aren't off the table. What makes them bad lynches? Seems like you have already picked who you want to get lynched and who you don't. That isn't a townie mindset.

You are the one that brought up you had scumreads on people but didn't want to vote for them. I didn't bring it up. You did. I just would like to know now that you mention it. Maybe I share a scumread on one of them? Or someone else does? Who knows?!?!

Well uh I like that you're town this game. It sounds much more fun than you!scum.

I really want to lynch shraeye, his claim removes him from the lynch pool today and because shraeye is shraeye he can follow up with anything, so his claim does nothing. However, I don't want to do so today, so he's off the table for me.

Second scumread is Didds, her vote on Joseph with me is just OMGUS with a small buddy, otherwise she hasn't done anything that tells me she's super-duper-town. Unfortunately, I have a habit of scumreading Didds regardless of alignment, and I believe she's much easier to solve given more days, so she's also off the table.

As you can see here, I like to scumread Swan. I used to be able to read him very well, but a bunch of games as scum can remove this habit out of me, so I think I can't do this as well. I also wouldn't like to see a D1 Swan lynch, but I believe that's the best right now.

Dylan came back and like cayvie I don't want to lynch them, however they're probably the one that has the highest probability of being scum that I actually scumread. Not that he's scummier than everyone else, just that it should be my most accurate scumread (as the others have some bias).

I wanted to see what the heck is going on with LaLight, I saw there's a wagon on them but I like their singular action this game: their vote on Swan. I chose to side with them on that, but I have no idea if that's the right move. I would vote for them if I wasn't pursuing Swan first.

Then there's varying levels of "too towny to be lynched D1" in the remaining players, and hopefully with this you understand why I don't know where to place my vote.

[yuma]

unvote

[Dylan32]

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

Well, I guess it is because I feel like you are withholding information if you aren't actively sharing who you think is mafia. There are some counter argument to make here about in-game mechanics but they why bring it up in the first place. There isn't anything such thing as a bad D1 lynch. Well maybe individuals that have claimed, but even then they aren't off the table. What makes them bad lynches? Seems like you have already picked who you want to get lynched and who you don't. That isn't a townie mindset.

You are the one that brought up you had scumreads on people but didn't want to vote for them. I didn't bring it up. You did. I just would like to know now that you mention it. Maybe I share a scumread on one of them? Or someone else does? Who knows?!?!

Well uh I like that you're town this game. It sounds much more fun than you!scum.

I really want to lynch shraeye, his claim removes him from the lynch pool today and because shraeye is shraeye he can follow up with anything, so his claim does nothing. However, I don't want to do so today, so he's off the table for me.

Second scumread is Didds, her vote on Joseph with me is just OMGUS with a small buddy, otherwise she hasn't done anything that tells me she's super-duper-town. Unfortunately, I have a habit of scumreading Didds regardless of alignment, and I believe she's much easier to solve given more days, so she's also off the table.

As you can see here, I like to scumread Swan. I used to be able to read him very well, but a bunch of games as scum can remove this habit out of me, so I think I can't do this as well. I also wouldn't like to see a D1 Swan lynch, but I believe that's the best right now.

Dylan came back and like cayvie I don't want to lynch them, however they're probably the one that has the highest probability of being scum that I actually scumread. Not that he's scummier than everyone else, just that it should be my most accurate scumread (as the others have some bias).

I wanted to see what the heck is going on with LaLight, I saw there's a wagon on them but I like their singular action this game: their vote on Swan. I chose to side with them on that, but I have no idea if that's the right move. I would vote for them if I wasn't pursuing Swan first.

Then there's varying levels of "too towny to be lynched D1" in the remaining players, and hopefully with this you understand why I don't know where to place my vote.

Ok, MiX had been one of the people I was kind of scumreading earlier, but this post seems townier to me than the rest did scummy, so townread there.

I had been waiting for yuma to show up and actually have some good content based on reputation, and I love their end of this interaction too.

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

Well, I guess it is because I feel like you are withholding information if you aren't actively sharing who you think is mafia. There are some counter argument to make here about in-game mechanics but they why bring it up in the first place. There isn't anything such thing as a bad D1 lynch. Well maybe individuals that have claimed, but even then they aren't off the table. What makes them bad lynches? Seems like you have already picked who you want to get lynched and who you don't. That isn't a townie mindset.

You are the one that brought up you had scumreads on people but didn't want to vote for them. I didn't bring it up. You did. I just would like to know now that you mention it. Maybe I share a scumread on one of them? Or someone else does? Who knows?!?!

To the withholding info comment, there's definitely good pro-town reasons to withhold info, reads, and motivations sometimes. But choosing to say "I have reads but saying them won't do anything" like MiX does come across as scummy compared to just not saying anything about them or saying there's a good reason not to share that you will talk about later, so that seems like a town reaction from yuma to MiX there.

[Dylan32]

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

Well, I guess it is because I feel like you are withholding information if you aren't actively sharing who you think is mafia. There are some counter argument to make here about in-game mechanics but they why bring it up in the first place. There isn't anything such thing as a bad D1 lynch. Well maybe individuals that have claimed, but even then they aren't off the table. What makes them bad lynches? Seems like you have already picked who you want to get lynched and who you don't. That isn't a townie mindset.

You are the one that brought up you had scumreads on people but didn't want to vote for them. I didn't bring it up. You did. I just would like to know now that you mention it. Maybe I share a scumread on one of them? Or someone else does? Who knows?!?!

Well uh I like that you're town this game. It sounds much more fun than you!scum.

I really want to lynch shraeye, his claim removes him from the lynch pool today and because shraeye is shraeye he can follow up with anything, so his claim does nothing. However, I don't want to do so today, so he's off the table for me.

Second scumread is Didds, her vote on Joseph with me is just OMGUS with a small buddy, otherwise she hasn't done anything that tells me she's super-duper-town. Unfortunately, I have a habit of scumreading Didds regardless of alignment, and I believe she's much easier to solve given more days, so she's also off the table.

As you can see here, I like to scumread Swan. I used to be able to read him very well, but a bunch of games as scum can remove this habit out of me, so I think I can't do this as well. I also wouldn't like to see a D1 Swan lynch, but I believe that's the best right now.

Dylan came back and like cayvie I don't want to lynch them, however they're probably the one that has the highest probability of being scum that I actually scumread. Not that he's scummier than everyone else, just that it should be my most accurate scumread (as the others have some bias).

I wanted to see what the heck is going on with LaLight, I saw there's a wagon on them but I like their singular action this game: their vote on Swan. I chose to side with them on that, but I have no idea if that's the right move. I would vote for them if I wasn't pursuing Swan first.

Then there's varying levels of "too towny to be lynched D1" in the remaining players, and hopefully with this you understand why I don't know where to place my vote.

Ok, MiX had been one of the people I was kind of scumreading earlier, but this post seems townier to me than the rest did scummy, so townread there.

I had been waiting for yuma to show up and actually have some good content based on reputation, and I love their end of this interaction too.

A bunch of people that I won't mention because there's no point. Why do you want to know?

Well, I guess it is because I feel like you are withholding information if you aren't actively sharing who you think is mafia. There are some counter argument to make here about in-game mechanics but they why bring it up in the first place. There isn't anything such thing as a bad D1 lynch. Well maybe individuals that have claimed, but even then they aren't off the table. What makes them bad lynches? Seems like you have already picked who you want to get lynched and who you don't. That isn't a townie mindset.

You are the one that brought up you had scumreads on people but didn't want to vote for them. I didn't bring it up. You did. I just would like to know now that you mention it. Maybe I share a scumread on one of them? Or someone else does? Who knows?!?!

To the withholding info comment, there's definitely good pro-town reasons to withhold info, reads, and motivations sometimes. But choosing to say "I have reads but saying them won't do anything" like MiX does come across as scummy compared to just not saying anything about them or saying there's a good reason not to share that you will talk about later, so that seems like a town reaction from yuma to MiX there.

To be clear, my comment about MiX's post coming across as scummy at the bottom of the post was how I interpreted it prior to his longer explanation post, but when he gave in and answered yuma, it made sense why he would feel that way. The two halves of my post probably should have been flipped around.

[faust]

unvote

Boo.

[faust]

Ok, MiX had been one of the people I was kind of scumreading earlier, but this post seems townier to me than the rest did scummy, so townread there.

Can you elaborate?

[cayvie]

man i have lost all my reads. i think i am just overstimulated in general, maybe i just need a good night's sleep. suddenly Swan is pinging as scum, and so is LaLight and i'm pretty sure that's not where my brain was before but *shrug*

[LaLight]

i, for once, townread MiX. he is much more collected and less opportunistic as scum, now we see a classic town!MiX. others, i have no idea, Swan still feels like scum.

[faust]

i, for once, townread MiX. he is much more collected and less opportunistic as scum, now we see a classic town!MiX. others, i have no idea, Swan still feels like scum.

No, you have it the wrong way around, Swan is town and MiX is scum.

[LaLight]

i, for once, townread MiX. he is much more collected and less opportunistic as scum, now we see a classic town!MiX. others, i have no idea, Swan still feels like scum.

No, you have it the wrong way around, Swan is town and MiX is scum.

I think you have it the other way around

[faust]

Well, it's less than 2 day to the deadline, and nothing much has happened here.

scolapasta, have you figured out who to vote for yet?

[Swowl]

i, for once, townread MiX. he is much more collected and less opportunistic as scum, now we see a classic town!MiX. others, i have no idea, Swan still feels like scum.

No, you have it the wrong way around, Swan is town and MiX is scum.

I think you have it the other way around

Your both wrong.

[Swowl]

This is town mix. Tunneling little things and being jumpy until something latches. It looks skummy but it is not for them.

I don’t have much of a case for LL other than Idk why i am skummy and that they have played with mix so this shouldn’t be fresh news.

[faust]

This is town mix. Tunneling little things and being jumpy until something latches. It looks skummy but it is not for them.

What is scummy for MiX?

[Swowl]

This is town mix. Tunneling little things and being jumpy until something latches. It looks skummy but it is not for them.

What is scummy for MiX?

This is gonna seem like a joke but it’s not - when he does t vote for me.

[Swowl]

*doesn't vote for me*

[shraeye]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

[faust]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

[Joseph2302]

Do things, people

Nothing to comment on

Which one of Swan/LL would you vote for?

Not particularly keen on voting for either

[WestCoastDidds]

Wait, what?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: raptor

[Joseph2302]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

You could think for yourself instead?

[faust]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

You could think for yourself instead?

Nah I've tried that, didn't suit me.

[MiX]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

Eww.

Vote: raptor

Why?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

Eww.

Vote: raptor

Why?

Why not? We wouldn’t miss his input and there’s as good a chance that it’s scumlurking as it is just general lurking or disinterest.

[yuma]

vote: scolapasta

[Dylan32]

Ok, MiX had been one of the people I was kind of scumreading earlier, but this post seems townier to me than the rest did scummy, so townread there.

Can you elaborate?

Not particularly. The earlier scumread was just a mid D1 gut read, no specifics behind it, but that post seemed towny, so I changed my read to fit evidence instead of my gut.

[faust]

Ok, MiX had been one of the people I was kind of scumreading earlier, but this post seems townier to me than the rest did scummy, so townread there.

Can you elaborate?

Not particularly. The earlier scumread was just a mid D1 gut read, no specifics behind it, but that post seemed towny, so I changed my read to fit evidence instead of my gut.

And what in that post did you feel was "evidence" for MiX being town?

[yuma]

hmmmm

[Dylan32]

As I was reading the thread and his and yuma's interaction, his "at least you're town" bit echoed my own reaction to yuma's previous post. Honestly, now that I've slept and am rereading it, I think that agreement with my own read colored how I read the rest of the post. So I don't know anymore.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 1.3

LaLight (1): DatSwan
DatSwan (2): LaLight, MiX
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
WestCoastDidds (3): Joseph2302, shraeye, faust
Xxraptorslayer96 (2): Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
scolapasta (1): yuma

Not Voting (1): scolapasta

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

[faust]

3. Dylan32

Whatever did Dylan do that warrants their erasure from the lynch list?

I just don't wanna day 1 lunch somebody on their first day back

And yet the same courtesy wasn't extended to Joseph.

[faust]

I'm still open for a cayvie lynch by the way. Just say the word.

[scolapasta]

Well, it's less than 2 day to the deadline, and nothing much has happened here.

scolapasta, have you figured out who to vote for yet?

Not really, got distracted by Ken Burn's the Gene last night. Honestly, though, I rarely see good strong evidence on D1s.

Right now, maybe leaning Raptor, but I forget why. Just there was something that felt like maybe. That said, I think my reads are not great and maybe I should look for someone who is staying more quiet.

[faust]

Well, it's less than 2 day to the deadline, and nothing much has happened here.

scolapasta, have you figured out who to vote for yet?

Not really, got distracted by Ken Burn's the Gene last night. Honestly, though, I rarely see good strong evidence on D1s.

Right now, maybe leaning Raptor, but I forget why. Just there was something that felt like maybe. That said, I think my reads are not great and maybe I should look for someone who is staying more quiet.

More than Raptor? Good luck with that.

[shraeye]

Out of all reactions/no reactions to my claim, aDidds is the furthest from expectation.

Hence the vote.  Stack that on top of earlier suspicion and it's good enough for me.  Hope it's good enough for y'all too.

[shraeye]

I'm unlikely to go cayvie. Scolapasta is a possible lynch target

[MiX]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

How about following scum reads, is that a good thing? Oh well.

Vote: Didds

[WestCoastDidds]

Out of all reactions/no reactions to my claim, aDidds is the furthest from expectation.

Hence the vote.  Stack that on top of earlier suspicion and it's good enough for me.  Hope it's good enough for y'all too.

What do you want me to do? I feel like you’re goofing around. It’s not scummy, it’s not town, it’s just Shraeye.

But I know I’m not as present in this game as I’d like to be, so that could read as scummy. It isn’t actually scummy though. If you want to lynch scum, you’ll need to work harder. Killing me will yield nothing interesting.

[yuma]

So I got town vibes out of MiX and Dylan from my and faust's exchange surrounding them. So I am not loving the mini-Dylan wagon. Is it weird that we haven't had any large wagons? Is that normal these days. I feel like we usually got to at least L-2 a couple of times early in the day in most games.

That said I could join a larger wagon as my votes have been on smaller wagons for the most part. People voting for West or Raptor tell me why one is a better vote than the other.

[Dylan32]

So I got town vibes out of MiX and Dylan from my and faust's exchange surrounding them. So I am not loving the mini-Dylan wagon. Is it weird that we haven't had any large wagons? Is that normal these days. I feel like we usually got to at least L-2 a couple of times early in the day in most games.

That said I could join a larger wagon as my votes have been on smaller wagons for the most part. People voting for West or Raptor tell me why one is a better vote than the other.

I noticed that (lack of large wagons) too. Seems weird, so if it's normal now it's just within the last year or so.

I parked my vote on raptor because he talked about catching up, but then came back and really said nothing of substance and vanished again. I was hoping a vote or two his way would spur some engagement. It obviously didn't. So I mean, he's a good wagon if you aren't wanting to get rid of an active person D1, but he's essentially a coin flip at this point, so we wouldn't really be gaining any info going forward, so I'm probably going to be moving my vote soon-ish unless people want to put a real wagon on him to see if he'll speak up a bit.

[Joseph2302]

3. Dylan32

Whatever did Dylan do that warrants their erasure from the lynch list?

I just don't wanna day 1 lunch somebody on their first day back

And yet the same courtesy wasn't extended to Joseph.

Not my first day back. Been in BM game recently

[Joseph2302]

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

How about following scum reads, is that a good thing? Oh well.

Vote: Didds

This is an interesting wagon. Not sure I agree WCD is that scummy

[yuma]

vote: Lalight

[MiX]

vote: Lalight

Vote: LaLight

[Dylan32]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

[MiX]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

Hmm, yes, yes I do.

I'm fundamentally against a Didds lynch D1 in general, which is why I moved, but it's a fine wagon. I don't think usual Didds tells apply nowadays, however.

[WestCoastDidds]

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

[WestCoastDidds]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

Yes, MiX jumps around a lot

[LaLight]

vote: WCD then

that was out of nowhere

[faust]

So I got town vibes out of MiX and Dylan from my and faust's exchange surrounding them. So I am not loving the mini-Dylan wagon. Is it weird that we haven't had any large wagons? Is that normal these days. I feel like we usually got to at least L-2 a couple of times early in the day in most games.

That said I could join a larger wagon as my votes have been on smaller wagons for the most part. People voting for West or Raptor tell me why one is a better vote than the other.

It's just a slow game I think, due to the large amount of games currently running.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

[MiX]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

insert "Didds why did you claim" here

Why is LL scum?

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

insert "Didds why did you claim" here

Why is LL scum?
 

How could I annoy you and be on brand without over sharing? xoxo but really, it feels like the writing is on the wall. No one thinks I’m not scum and we’re rounding the corner to deadline. It’s in the best interest of town to find scum. But if we think lynching town sounds like fun, at least I’m no big loss. Other than my quick wit and lively banter, of course.

As for LL, I don’t know that he is. I only know that I am not, and I am certain there is scum on my wagon.

[Swowl]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

[Swowl]

Raptor - there is no work to blame this one man... cmon. Some thoughts bro.

[Dylan32]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

[WestCoastDidds]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

Well, I like that I know there is town on it.

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

[Dylan32]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

[WestCoastDidds]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

Quote fail.. what I like is that I know there is town on it!

[WestCoastDidds]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

And what is the compelling scum case on me that’s keeping you there?

[Dylan32]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

And what is the compelling scum case on me that’s keeping you there?

We need to consolidate towards a lynch. You were the better viable option to LL's wagon. Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere, I just haven't taken the time to go back and reread to see where I'd rather go yet.

[MiX]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

And what is the compelling scum case on me that’s keeping you there?

We need to consolidate towards a lynch. You were the better viable option to LL's wagon. Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere, I just haven't taken the time to go back and reread to see where I'd rather go yet.

The claim actually maker her scummier, as scum!Didds would never claim anything else, whereas town!Didds might get a PR.

[MiX]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

That I'm in it, duh. You deliberately took away the only town on the wagon, obv!scum.

When's deadline?

[Dylan32]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

And what is the compelling scum case on me that’s keeping you there?

We need to consolidate towards a lynch. You were the better viable option to LL's wagon. Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere, I just haven't taken the time to go back and reread to see where I'd rather go yet.

The claim actually maker her scummier, as scum!Didds would never claim anything else, whereas town!Didds might get a PR.

It isn't the claim that I thought was towny, of course VT is the most likely fake claim here. But the attitude they've had about it seems townier to me. Getting lynched D1 as scum is terrible for their win chances, but for town it's just not good as opposed to terrible, so I think scum may be more likely to push back harder than WCD is.  It's been long enough since I played I might have that 180 degrees off from the meta, but that's my reasoning.

[Dylan32]

vote: Lalight

Vote: LaLight

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

insert "Didds why did you claim" here

Why is LL scum?

Sorry, didn't mean to forget you. But this doesn't make the LL wagon any better.

[Dylan32]

Day ends 8pm forum time tomorrow

[MiX]

Day ends 8pm forum time tomorrow

Thank you. I will be here for deadline.

This is town vs town and I need a good night of rest before I can crack this. Or LaLight's scum, honestly. Lalight's probably scum the more I think about it. What have they done this game? Vote Swan?

What is there to like about Didds' wagon?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

[MiX]

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Maybe I'm acting town because...I'm town! Dang, takes some serious deduction there.

Also because I've been scum a bunch in a row and so now I look different.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Things are starting to pick up a lot so I will try to up my activity till the deadline, which I should be here for!

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Maybe I'm acting town because...I'm town! Dang, takes some serious deduction there.

Also because I've been scum a bunch in a row and so now I look different.

I guess it could be that sawn and you have been scum a lot lately... or on the other hand maybe you are just scum.

[Dylan32]

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Why faust and Swan as your top 2?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Why faust and Swan as your top 2?

Gut feeling, both seem to be playing abnormal / don't like their arguments.

convince me to vote WCD.

[Dylan32]

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Why faust and Swan as your top 2?

Gut feeling, both seem to be playing abnormal / don't like their arguments.

convince me to vote WCD.

Bolded part feels lazy when I said not even an hour ago that I'm looking for alternatives to WCD since I'm leaning town on them.

[Dylan32]

How do you think faust has been off meta so far? And what did you disagree with that they've said?

[WestCoastDidds]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

That I'm in it, duh. You deliberately took away the only town on the wagon, obv!scum.

When's deadline?

23 hours

[Dylan32]

Eh, to put my money where my mouth is, unvote. I'd go back to avoid no lunch.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 1.4

LaLight (4): DatSwan, yuma, MiX, WestCoastDidds
DatSwan (1): LaLight
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
WestCoastDidds (4): Joseph2302, shraeye, faust, LaLight

Not Voting (2): scolapasta, Dylan32

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

[yuma]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

[Swowl]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

And what is the compelling scum case on me that’s keeping you there?

We need to consolidate towards a lynch. You were the better viable option to LL's wagon. Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere, I just haven't taken the time to go back and reread to see where I'd rather go yet.

The claim actually maker her scummier, as scum!Didds would never claim anything else, whereas town!Didds might get a PR.

that is actually a good point. why did you come to LL?

[faust]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

[faust]

Last ditch effort!

Vote: cayvie

She's scum, I feel it in my bones.

[Joseph2302]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

[Joseph2302]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

This doesn't seem like normal faust to me. Normally they're posting a lot, making logical arguments

This just seems a lot different

[Swowl]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

... then why you on didds?

[Swowl]

oh nvm joke/sarcasm, didn't read the post fully.

[Joseph2302]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

... then why you on didds?

Because I was on didds from earlier on. And don't like putting people on L2

[Swowl]

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

... then why you on didds?

Because I was on didds from earlier on. And don't like putting people on L2

So wait just clarifying. That was not sarcasm? You think LL is more likely skum than WCD, with 15 hours to DL, and you are voting for the person you find to be more likely skum... bc you were on them already and don’t like putting people at L2?

That is just giving yourself an open door to vote for whoever you want with essentially no reason at all.

Vote: Dylan

[Swowl]

Vote: Joseph

Got the players mixed up.

[shraeye]

No one thinks I’m not scum and we’re rounding the corner to deadline. It’s in the best interest of town to find scum. But if we think lynching town sounds like fun, at least I’m no big loss. Other than my quick wit and lively banter, of course.

This is overly defeatist, and wrong ("no one thinks I'm not scum").  And makes me even happier with my vote.

[shraeye]

Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere,

You'd rather lynch somebody who claims PR?? Or will you only lynch if the lynchee refuses to claim?

[shraeye]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

This doesn't seem like normal faust to me. Normally they're posting a lot, making logical arguments

This just seems a lot different

I can guarantee it's on-brand Faust.  Townfaust? Don't know; but it is definitely normal Faust

[MiX]

Like, I have no idea if LL is scum or not, but that wagon is just weak. If somebody has a good reason to think LL is actually scum, I'm open to hear it, but as it stands now, I wouldn't jump on that as long as there are other alternatives.

And what is the compelling scum case on me that’s keeping you there?

We need to consolidate towards a lynch. You were the better viable option to LL's wagon. Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere, I just haven't taken the time to go back and reread to see where I'd rather go yet.

The claim actually maker her scummier, as scum!Didds would never claim anything else, whereas town!Didds might get a PR.

that is actually a good point. why did you come to LL?

Because I don't vote people due to their claims.

So wait just clarifying. That was not sarcasm? You think LL is more likely skum than WCD, with 15 hours to DL, and you are voting for the person you find to be more likely skum... bc you were on them already and don’t like putting people at L2?

That is just giving yourself an open door to vote for whoever you want with essentially no reason at all.

Vote: Dylan

This is the towniest post Swan has ever made in the history of Swans. Except the vote is pretty bad.

I will ISO LaLight and come up with a case probably maybe not we'll see who knows.

[MiX]

ISO'd LaLight, he usually throws opportunist votes as any alignment, but basically every post is an opportunist vote this game.

Too much lurking to be town. Please show up and be towny, kthx.

[WestCoastDidds]

No one thinks I’m not scum and we’re rounding the corner to deadline. It’s in the best interest of town to find scum. But if we think lynching town sounds like fun, at least I’m no big loss. Other than my quick wit and lively banter, of course.

This is overly defeatist, and wrong ("no one thinks I'm not scum").  And makes me even happier with my vote.

I’m sure it’s just me, but I feel like whenever I’m at the end of a Shraeye tunnel that I’m town. It’s defeatist because whenever this happens, there is no moving you. I don’t even know what to say, and when I get frustrated, you tend to say that I’m using emotion and the double down. So, like I said, I’m okay with being the lynch. But you’re wrong about me being scum and at some point you really should cut this ish out. Unless you’re scum, then, well, of course.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

I know, right? In a perfect world, I’d be able to use this run out to root out the baddies, but unfortunately I’ve got to do the real work for the paying job so not as free as I’d like to be. But you can do it, faust, I believe in you! : )

[WestCoastDidds]

Last ditch effort!

Vote: cayvie

She's scum, I feel it in my bones.

This is not a terrible vote, although I think her level of activity is related to practicing for the championship thingy

[shraeye]

No one thinks I’m not scum and we’re rounding the corner to deadline. It’s in the best interest of town to find scum. But if we think lynching town sounds like fun, at least I’m no big loss. Other than my quick wit and lively banter, of course.

This is overly defeatist, and wrong ("no one thinks I'm not scum").  And makes me even happier with my vote.

I’m sure it’s just me, but I feel like whenever I’m at the end of a Shraeye tunnel that I’m town. It’s defeatist because whenever this happens, there is no moving you. I don’t even know what to say, and when I get frustrated, you tend to say that I’m using emotion and the double down. So, like I said, I’m okay with being the lynch. But you’re wrong about me being scum and at some point you really should cut this ish out. Unless you’re scum, then, well, of course.

Ok sure; I'll cut out "voting incorrectly for Didds" from my toolkit, great overall gameplay suggestion.  While I'm at it, I'll cut out "voting incorrectly for anybody".  I'm gonna be so freaking good at this game, thanks for the suggestion!

[faust]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

I know, right? In a perfect world, I’d be able to use this run out to root out the baddies, but unfortunately I’ve got to do the real work for the paying job so not as free as I’d like to be. But you can do it, faust, I believe in you! : )

But what about my real work?

... you're probably right, it's not that important.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

I know, right? In a perfect world, I’d be able to use this run out to root out the baddies, but unfortunately I’ve got to do the real work for the paying job so not as free as I’d like to be. But you can do it, faust, I believe in you! : )

But what about my real work?

... you're probably right, it's not that important.

I’m certain that your work is important as mine. I just thought you might be closer to being at the end of your work day. Or we could ask MiX to do it!

[MiX]

No one thinks I’m not scum and we’re rounding the corner to deadline. It’s in the best interest of town to find scum. But if we think lynching town sounds like fun, at least I’m no big loss. Other than my quick wit and lively banter, of course.

This is overly defeatist, and wrong ("no one thinks I'm not scum").  And makes me even happier with my vote.

I’m sure it’s just me, but I feel like whenever I’m at the end of a Shraeye tunnel that I’m town. It’s defeatist because whenever this happens, there is no moving you. I don’t even know what to say, and when I get frustrated, you tend to say that I’m using emotion and the double down. So, like I said, I’m okay with being the lynch. But you’re wrong about me being scum and at some point you really should cut this ish out. Unless you’re scum, then, well, of course.

Ok sure; I'll cut out "voting incorrectly for Didds" from my toolkit, great overall gameplay suggestion.  While I'm at it, I'll cut out "voting incorrectly for anybody".  I'm gonna be so freaking good at this game, thanks for the suggestion!

I suggest working through each person one at a time, otherwise you'll cut "voting correctly for X" as well. I know this because I've gone through this thought process.

I’m at L-2 at deadline is in 26 hours.

I’m a VT, so not the worst lynch and I won’t be mad. But seriously, y’all, if you want to lynch scum you’ve got to get to work.

How 'bout you get to work?

I know, right? In a perfect world, I’d be able to use this run out to root out the baddies, but unfortunately I’ve got to do the real work for the paying job so not as free as I’d like to be. But you can do it, faust, I believe in you! : )

But what about my real work?

... you're probably right, it's not that important.

I’m certain that your work is important as mine. I just thought you might be closer to being at the end of your work day. Or we could ask MiX to do it!

I feel called out. Maybe because I am! I don't like the implication that I'm slacking off studying in favor of playing forum mafia. But it's true, so, meh.

Sadly I don't actually want to reread this day again and finding out my scumreads again. It's kinda late in the ingame day to do this. I'll do it tomorrow with a VCA. If you wanna vote LaLight again, go ahead, not sure it does anything but maybe there's a super secret doublevoter in this setup, who knows.

[faust]

Last ditch effort!

Vote: cayvie

She's scum, I feel it in my bones.

This is not a terrible vote, although I think her level of activity is related to practicing for the championship thingy

Maybe? But she wasn't particularly involved even before that started.

[yuma]

I am just saying that Lalight hasn't responded to a single vote on them. No reaction. Zip. Nada. That seems about 100% more mafia than town. Maybe if by not reacting the votes will just go away? Town doesn't think like that so overreacts and responds to each little vote.

Lalight is the better wagon. West is probably the townie reacting to getting votes.

A vote for Lalight is a vote for Lalight!

[MiX]

I am just saying that Lalight hasn't responded to a single vote on them. No reaction. Zip. Nada. That seems about 100% more mafia than town. Maybe if by not reacting the votes will just go away? Town doesn't think like that so overreacts and responds to each little vote.

Lalight is the better wagon. West is probably the townie reacting to getting votes.

A vote for Lalight is a vote for Lalight!

yuma for president!

[LaLight]

I am just saying that Lalight hasn't responded to a single vote on them. No reaction. Zip. Nada. That seems about 100% more mafia than town. Maybe if by not reacting the votes will just go away? Town doesn't think like that so overreacts and responds to each little vote.

Lalight is the better wagon. West is probably the townie reacting to getting votes.

A vote for Lalight is a vote for Lalight!

This is just me on D1, I usually am not active at that particular time of game. Lately people love to vote for me D1 for this, and this happened in last a lot of games. Never ended with something good, to be honest

[yuma]

Utah had an earthquake about a month ago and now we keep getting aftershocks. Just had a 4.2. I know some places in the world have these on a regular basis, but man! I am done with the earth moving under me.

[yuma]

I am just saying that Lalight hasn't responded to a single vote on them. No reaction. Zip. Nada. That seems about 100% more mafia than town. Maybe if by not reacting the votes will just go away? Town doesn't think like that so overreacts and responds to each little vote.

Lalight is the better wagon. West is probably the townie reacting to getting votes.

A vote for Lalight is a vote for Lalight!

This is just me on D1, I usually am not active at that particular time of game. Lately people love to vote for me D1 for this, and this happened in last a lot of games. Never ended with something good, to be honest

Cool. Sounds like it is on you to change and convince us though.

[LaLight]

I am just saying that Lalight hasn't responded to a single vote on them. No reaction. Zip. Nada. That seems about 100% more mafia than town. Maybe if by not reacting the votes will just go away? Town doesn't think like that so overreacts and responds to each little vote.

Lalight is the better wagon. West is probably the townie reacting to getting votes.

A vote for Lalight is a vote for Lalight!

This is just me on D1, I usually am not active at that particular time of game. Lately people love to vote for me D1 for this, and this happened in last a lot of games. Never ended with something good, to be honest

Cool. Sounds like it is on you to change and convince us though.

yeah, i know

would the promise to be more active D2 onwards work?

[Dylan32]

Post your claim, I'm inclined to look elsewhere,

You'd rather lynch somebody who claims PR?? Or will you only lynch if the lynchee refuses to claim?

Do you just reply to a post as you read and catch up before you finish reading everything that happened? Way to isolate half of a sentence out of a whole conversation and then try to straw man it to make it look absurd. Because I already explained specifically why I want to look somewhere else, and it has nothing to do with what was claimed.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Probably time to start narrowing the Lynch pool. LL and WCD lead the count with 3 votes, Faust with 2, Swan, Cayvie and Joseph all with 1 vote. Someone could double check me.

Unless I'm in total disagreement I think that we should focus on LL, WCD and Faust. I'm up for making a last ditch effort on someone but with 12? hours, it needs to happen now. Let me know your guys thoughts!

[scolapasta]

Of those three, I think I lean WCD (sorry!)

[scolapasta]

And yes, I know I haven't actually gotten the chance to reread, make any meaningful comments.

Just trying to keep up during day while I work.

Oh, and I guess I can make that vote official:

Vote: WCD

[yuma]

I see zero reason to prefer WCD over LaLight. Those voting there. Why?

I'll go find out....

And yes, I know I haven't actually gotten the chance to reread, make any meaningful comments.

Just trying to keep up during day while I work.

Oh, and I guess I can make that vote official:

Vote: WCD

Nothing

vote: WCD then

that was out of nowhere

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

How about following scum reads, is that a good thing? Oh well.

Vote: Didds

Yep. Nothing. Y'all just bull-heading into what really looks like a mislynch but with nothing to gain from it looking back.

FoS!

[yuma]

Forgot Joseph.

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

Vote: WCD

But apparently Joseph doesn't actually think WCD is that scummy.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

How about following scum reads, is that a good thing? Oh well.

Vote: Didds

This is an interesting wagon. Not sure I agree WCD is that scummy

And thinks LL is scummier than WCD? I don't know what is going on.

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

[Dylan32]

So when you take my look at LL's wagon earlier and yuma's look at WCD's wagon, our two main wagons haven't had any substance behind them. I do like yuma's recent effort to actually argue specifically for LL instead of just voting LL for the sake of lynching somebody. I'll be around basically all day, so I'm going to be reading and voting here in a little bit.

Also a note on yuma's wagon analysis, note that I already unvoted because I think WCD is probably not a good lunch right now.

PPE1 and on mobile

[LaLight]

i will not be here for deadline

[Dylan32]

I don’t want to be on the lynchlist!

Vote: WCD

A random vote in reaction to WCD's comment.

Do things, people

Nothing to comment on

Which one of Swan/LL would you vote for?

Not particularly keen on voting for either

Not keen on voting for LL.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

You could think for yourself instead?

kind of a strange reaction to faust joining the same wagon as him.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

How about following scum reads, is that a good thing? Oh well.

Vote: Didds

This is an interesting wagon. Not sure I agree WCD is that scummy

Vote is still on WCD at this point.

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

... then why you on didds?

Because I was on didds from earlier on. And don't like putting people on L2

Ok fair enough, but what happened that changed your mind about LL. With no reasoning given, you went from not being keen to vote for LL and voting for WCD to not thinking WCD was scummy, LL is scummier than WCD, and still voting for LL.

It's easy for me to read this throught the narrative of scum parters Joseph and WCD with Joseph getting some subtle early distancing in, but then trying to move people towards an alternate lynch without actually moving his vote off of his partner for the cred of being on a scum wagon/not on a town wagon at the end of the day. I know this would mean I was wrong to unvote WCD, but if we move towards a Joseph lynch, that could be really informative.

vote: Joseph

[MiX]

Hold on. You think Joseph is scum with Didds? No way. If you do, just lynch Didds! It's much easier and your vote will do so much more.

I might join the Joseph wagon, however.

[Joseph2302]

I see zero reason to prefer WCD over LaLight. Those voting there. Why?

I'll go find out....

And yes, I know I haven't actually gotten the chance to reread, make any meaningful comments.

Just trying to keep up during day while I work.

Oh, and I guess I can make that vote official:

Vote: WCD

Nothing

vote: WCD then

that was out of nowhere

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

Vote: WCD

Yup, that's probably where my vote is staying for the rest of teh day.

We were supposed to follow the Cop, right?

Vote: Didds

How about following scum reads, is that a good thing? Oh well.

Vote: Didds

Yep. Nothing. Y'all just bull-heading into what really looks like a mislynch but with nothing to gain from it looking back.

FoS!

Agreed
Vote: LL
PPE: 1

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Joseph

I’m not sure LL isn’t scum, but I have some sympathy with the not being able to catch a break to even seeing D2

Joseph staying on me when he thinks his vote is better elsewhere makes no sense to me

PPE a couple

[Dylan32]

Hold on. You think Joseph is scum with Didds? No way. If you do, just lynch Didds! It's much easier and your vote will do so much more.

I might join the Joseph wagon, however.

Even if I'm wrong about them being partners, I at least have something I can and have pointed to with Didds that I read as towny. I don't have any of that with Joseph, so even ignoring the partner angle, I would still prefer Joseph to WCD right now.

[Joseph2302]

Hold on. You think Joseph is scum with Didds? No way. If you do, just lynch Didds! It's much easier and your vote will do so much more.

I might join the Joseph wagon, however.

Even if I'm wrong about them being partners, I at least have something I can and have pointed to with Didds that I read as towny. I don't have any of that with Joseph, so even ignoring the partner angle, I would still prefer Joseph to WCD right now.

Why Joseph all of a sudden?

And why does it have to be me or WCD? LL seems like a better option to me

[Joseph2302]

Hold on. You think Joseph is scum with Didds? No way. If you do, just lynch Didds! It's much easier and your vote will do so much more.

I might join the Joseph wagon, however.

Joseph isn't scum with Didds, because Joseph isn't scum

[yuma]

Games with 12 players can be hard to lynch scum day1. Have to get 7 to vote! If scum doesn't join in that is 7 out of 9 town players agreeing.

Which wagons have gotten some movement and then halted about 1/2 way?

[faust]

Probably time to start narrowing the Lynch pool. LL and WCD lead the count with 3 votes, Faust with 2, Swan, Cayvie and Joseph all with 1 vote. Someone could double check me.

Unless I'm in total disagreement I think that we should focus on LL, WCD and Faust. I'm up for making a last ditch effort on someone but with 12? hours, it needs to happen now. Let me know your guys thoughts!

If you're up, then go for cayvie!

[faust]

However, unfortunately, I actually do need to go to sleep in like 10 minutes, and it seems I need to switch because you're all boring.

[faust]

Games with 12 players can be hard to lynch scum day1. Have to get 7 to vote! If scum doesn't join in that is 7 out of 9 town players agreeing.

Which wagons have gotten some movement and then halted about 1/2 way?

Is it cayvie? Please say cayvie!

[LaLight]

vote: faust

[MiX]

vote: faust

This is not how faust reacts to being a wagon.

[MiX]

vote: faust

This is not how faust reacts to being a wagon.

Scum!faust I mean. Or faust in general to be honest, but town!faust does whatever he feels like.

[Swowl]

Swan Count - for Reference.

LaLight (3): yuma, MiX, Joseph2302
faust (3): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight
Joseph(3): DatSwan, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (2): shraeye, scolapasta
cayvie (1): faust

Not Voting (0):

[Swowl]

Hold on. You think Joseph is scum with Didds? No way. If you do, just lynch Didds! It's much easier and your vote will do so much more.

I might join the Joseph wagon, however.

Joseph isn't scum with Didds, because Joseph isn't scum

Joseph DEFFFF is NOT skum with didds imo.
But dude... here is the thing.

- You make the post about LL and WCD.
- I say I do not like it because it gives you an open window to switch back and forth between the two leading wagon.

...then it gets into the wagons....

Right before things start off, we are here:
LaLight (4): DatSwan, yuma, MiX, WestCoastDidds
DatSwan (1): LaLight
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
WestCoastDidds (4): Joseph2302, shraeye, faust, LaLight
Not Voting (2): scolapasta, Dylan32


Shortly there after, when I vote for you we are here:
LaLight (3):  yuma, MiX, WestCoastDidds
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
WestCoastDidds (2): Joseph2302, shraeye
Swan (1): LL
Cayvie (1): faust
Joseph (1): Swan
Not Voting (2): scolapasta, Dylan32

First the people with the least influence vote (not talking to their character, just that they were not on one of the wagons already so the swing based on their choices are less significant):

- scolapasta votes for WCD, brings her to tied high wagon of 3.
- Dylan votes for Joseph. Brings Joseph to wagon of 2.

That brings us here:
LaLight (3): yuma, MiX, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (3): Joseph2302, shraeye, scolapasta
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
Joseph (2): Swan, Dylan
Swan (1): LL
Cayvie (1): faust

- This next part is exactly what I was concerned about, and why you ping me as skummy. You, Joseph, find both LL and WCD skummy. The options of wagons for you to move to are essentially...
a) stay on the WCD wagon. faust moved. LL you have to assume will go there to get a lynch off. That would be 5/7 since scolapasta went there.
b) move to faust wagon. would put faust at 3, wcd at 2, and LL at 3. Although, you can't really do that. you own the shovel, you said the reason you were on WCD instead of LL is because you do not "want to put them at L2"... which would no longer be the case. So you are forced into either "a" or "c"....
c) move to the LL wagon. which is what you do. in doing so, you follow you second top skum read, which you were just voting for, and join them on LL to make it this:

LaLight (4): yuma, MiX, WestCoastDidds, Joseph2302
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
WestCoastDidds (2): shraeye, scolapasta
Joseph (2): Swan, Dylan
Swan (1): LL
Cayvie (1): faust

- This part is why WCD is town. WCD moves to Joseph, I am assuming bc of Joseph's move as I mentioned, but obv I don't know for sure. Either way, I like the move.

- LL moves to faust. I would of been soooo pumped if they just voted you, joseph there instead, but still its fine. I find it more likely that you are skum that picked two town players to switch between, then the alt. The alt being somehow LL is skum with you, but that is far ish fetched.

Which finally brings us here, to current:

LaLight (3): yuma, MiX, Joseph2302
faust (3): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight
Joseph(3): DatSwan, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds
WestCoastDidds (2): shraeye, scolapasta
cayvie (1): faust


So you asked "Why does it have to be Joseph or LL?", and then say "it isn't Skum!Joseph and Skum!WCD, because Joseph isn't skum".

1) It could/has to be you because you dug a hole for yourself whether you are town or skum, and given the vote moves over the course of the last 3 pages... it just kind of has to be you or LL.

2) It could be LL because LL did not vote for you and the faust lynch would just be so fucking random. so it is an FOS at [Cayvie, Raptor, LL] from my pov... in which order it goes LL-HUGE GAP-Cayvie-Raptor.

3) I 100% agree that it cannot be WCD ANDDDD Joseph. But it sure could be one of you. More importantly we have to pick someone. And again, as I stated above, I do not think WCD is skum, so you are the easy choice.


TLDR;
We have to, or whatever... should/probably are going to/whatever... pick between LaLight, faust, Joseph, Didds.
- No one should pick Didds. Reference this post for reasoning.
- faust would generate far less information then LL or Joseph.. and also, I just don't dig the wagon.
- LL could possibly be acceptable. however....
- Joseph is without a doubt the skummiest. You made a statement. It put you in a spot. You made the move you had to make... which made almost no sense outside of you blanket statement as reasoning... and now we are here.

so yeah. that is why people should vote Joseph. we got like 2 hours I think.

[MiX]

However, unfortunately, I actually do need to go to sleep in like 10 minutes, and it seems I need to switch because you're all boring.

Did you just...fall asleep? That's so anti-town.

Big Swan Post: Vote: Joseph, Swan is town and I will sheep him until either of us die.

[Joseph2302]

Games with 12 players can be hard to lynch scum day1. Have to get 7 to vote! If scum doesn't join in that is 7 out of 9 town players agreeing.

Which wagons have gotten some movement and then halted about 1/2 way?

Not my one. Didds and LL both halted at about 4

[Dylan32]

Games with 12 players can be hard to lynch scum day1. Have to get 7 to vote! If scum doesn't join in that is 7 out of 9 town players agreeing.

Which wagons have gotten some movement and then halted about 1/2 way?

Not my one. Didds and LL both halted at about 4

It's just as likely scum had tried launching or supporting those wagons, but they died out when there wasn't enough town support for them and scum was trying to push a "it's one of the two, it's too late for other options" narrative.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

How long until deadline?

[yuma]

vote: joseph

[scolapasta]

Lynch better than no lynch, so I'll put Joseph at L-1.

vote: Joseph

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 1.5

LaLight (1): Joseph2302
faust (3): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight
WestCoastDidds (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): faust
Joseph2302 (6): DatSwan, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, MiX, yuma, scolapasta

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch. Day One ends at 8 pm forum time April 16th.

[WestCoastDidds]

I gotta pick up my kids. Probably not back by deadline. Cool with my vote.

xoxo

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Intent to hammer

[yuma]

ok

[Xxraptorslayer96]

ok

I was giving it 15/20 min to see if Joseph was around to claim or say something

[yuma]

would it matter at this point?

[MiX]

ok

I was giving it 15/20 min to see if Joseph was around to claim or say something

I think deadline is before 15/20 min

[scolapasta]

Deadline is in 5 minutes (and counting)

[A Drowned Kernel]

THREAD LOCKED

[A Drowned Kernel]

Final Vote Count

LaLight (1): Joseph2302
faust (3): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight
WestCoastDidds (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): faust
Joseph2302 (6): DatSwan, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, MiX, yuma, scolapasta

No one was lynched! Night one begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time April 18th.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ashersky has replaced cayvie

[A Drowned Kernel]

Day Two Start

shraeye was killed in the night! He was a Vanilla Townie.

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): Joseph2302, MiX, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, yuma, faust, ashersky, LaLight, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day Two begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time April 25th.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[LaLight]

I am sorry i missed the deadline i thought it's much later.

[LaLight]

vote: raptor

[yuma]

vote: lalight

[yuma]

Also haha to shraeye! Amaze

[Joseph2302]

Also haha to shraeye! Amaze

Lol. Good protecting of actual town PRs there

[Joseph2302]

No lynch is always bad. And I'm saying that even as the probable lynch there

[yuma]

That was frustrating but the only way I see raptor doing it intentionally is if you are both mafia. Possible, but not probable. Plus a big gambit.


I want to go back to the wagons that yours distracted away from. Lalight in particular.

[scolapasta]

vote: raptor

[yuma]

vote: raptor

Explain?

[scolapasta]

End of day say was going to hammer, had time, was warned on deadline, still did not. I don't get it.

I'll wait to hear reasoning, until then...

[LaLight]

End of day say was going to hammer, had time, was warned on deadline, still did not. I don't get it.

I'll wait to hear reasoning, until then...

same reasoning for my vote

[yuma]

Huh... raptor is at the bottom of my lunch list.

[MiX]

faust raptor and Joseph are scum.

I didn't expect to be alive, and we didn't have any flip, so I didn't think about this game at all in the night.

Vote: Joseph

Also, shraeye...thanks for taking one for the team. It must suck to be NKd for doing the right play.

[Joseph2302]

That was frustrating but the only way I see raptor doing it intentionally is if you are both mafia. Possible, but not probable. Plus a big gambit.


I want to go back to the wagons that yours distracted away from. Lalight in particular.

We're not both bad because I'm good

[Joseph2302]

faust raptor and Joseph are scum.

I didn't expect to be alive, and we didn't have any flip, so I didn't think about this game at all in the night.

Vote: Joseph

Also, shraeye...thanks for taking one for the team. It must suck to be NKd for doing the right play.

Joseph isn't scum, raptor maybe, faust less sure on

[MiX]

vote: raptor

Vote: LaLight, raptor is the least scummy out of the no-lynch crew.

I presume there's still no reason to claim anything?

[LaLight]

vote: raptor

Vote: LaLight, raptor is the least scummy out of the no-lynch crew.

I presume there's still no reason to claim anything?

well, he came, intended to hammer and didn't. i would believe they both are scum.

[MiX]

Okay, with less of a joke tone Didds is probably scum, also anyone who voted shraeye could easily be scum trying to see who would jump there (I've done this countless times as scum trying to gauge town's reads on a PR claim), overall we should sheep shraeye as if he was alive.

I will set up a "VCA" around shraeye sometime and encourage others to reread him and actions around him specifically, as I believe they're incredibly useful.

Joseph should have a better PoE than everyone else, and I think LaLight too, so I also expect more of those 2.

vote: raptor

Vote: LaLight, raptor is the least scummy out of the no-lynch crew.

I presume there's still no reason to claim anything?

well, he came, intended to hammer and didn't. i would believe they both are scum.

Ha. Then vote Joseph, wouldn't he be a much better lynch?

Never forget faust, who never consolidated his vote. He's as much to blame as raptor.

[LaLight]

Okay, with less of a joke tone Didds is probably scum, also anyone who voted shraeye could easily be scum trying to see who would jump there (I've done this countless times as scum trying to gauge town's reads on a PR claim), overall we should sheep shraeye as if he was alive.

I will set up a "VCA" around shraeye sometime and encourage others to reread him and actions around him specifically, as I believe they're incredibly useful.

Joseph should have a better PoE than everyone else, and I think LaLight too, so I also expect more of those 2.

vote: raptor

Vote: LaLight, raptor is the least scummy out of the no-lynch crew.

I presume there's still no reason to claim anything?

well, he came, intended to hammer and didn't. i would believe they both are scum.

Ha. Then vote Joseph, wouldn't he be a much better lynch?

Never forget faust, who never consolidated his vote. He's as much to blame as raptor.

out of Joseph and raptor, raptor is scummier. Because scum wants us to have no info, so they want a no lynch. And it doesn't really matter if the person they no lynch is scum or town.

[LaLight]

faust went to sleep 4 hours before deadline

[MiX]

faust went to sleep 4 hours before deadline

However, unfortunately, I actually do need to go to sleep in like 10 minutes, and it seems I need to switch because you're all boring.

I think he's very responsible for what happened.

I am sorry i missed the deadline i thought it's much later.

Did you say you were going to show up for deadline?

[WestCoastDidds]

Dude....vote: Raptor

I think he knew exactly what he was doing

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: Raptor

[LaLight]

faust went to sleep 4 hours before deadline

However, unfortunately, I actually do need to go to sleep in like 10 minutes, and it seems I need to switch because you're all boring.

I think he's very responsible for what happened.

I am sorry i missed the deadline i thought it's much later.

Did you say you were going to show up for deadline?

i didn't, but i actually wasn't asleep at this point. i didn't read the thread, but i was on forum. then i read itand turned out deadline was passed

[MiX]

vote: Raptor

He's gonna flip town cause he's raptor and not hammering Joseph just brings a bunch of heat to him and it's completely useless since we start at an even player count so he gains nothing and loses everything.

faust went to sleep 4 hours before deadline

However, unfortunately, I actually do need to go to sleep in like 10 minutes, and it seems I need to switch because you're all boring.

I think he's very responsible for what happened.

I am sorry i missed the deadline i thought it's much later.

Did you say you were going to show up for deadline?

i didn't, but i actually wasn't asleep at this point. i didn't read the thread, but i was on forum. then i read itand turned out deadline was passed

Oh. Well, I'll move my vote when I get conclusions from shraeye VCA.

[Swowl]

It is
Vote: Joseph

If they Flip skum
Vote: Raptor

And then paths and paths and paths.

I have bunch more fun Princess bride stuff to say but I’m on phone and it’s raptors birthday so we are gonna start virtual party soon.

But it is 100% Joseph today

Right. Vote: Joseph


Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

[Swowl]

Dude....vote: Raptor

I think he knew exactly what he was doing

Again if he knew what he was doing then we Lynch joseph first to verify. If Joseph by some freezing miracle is town, raptor don’t look too bad.

[MiX]

It is
Vote: Joseph

If they Flip skum
Vote: Raptor

And then paths and paths and paths.

I have bunch more fun Princess bride stuff to say but I’m on phone and it’s raptors birthday so we are gonna start virtual party soon.

But it is 100% Joseph today

Right. Vote: Joseph


Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

Towntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntown.

Dude....vote: Raptor

I think he knew exactly what he was doing

Again if he knew what he was doing then we Lynch joseph first to verify. If Joseph by some freezing miracle is town, raptor don’t look too bad.

It's not as perfect as you're saying but this is what I thought of all night so uh town thinking is town, everyone say hi to Swan the new IC. Hi Swan!

[MiX]

huh i see now (thanx swan) that every scenario where follow-the-cop (basically, a full cop and doc) is an option, then scum has a roleblocker and a strongman to bust thru that. so that's the one benefit i saw, and it doesn't work.

what about if instead of just claiming roles, everyone claims "I'm either VT or POWER ROLE"

does that help town at all? the main potential benefit of all this is to lock scum into their fakeclaims early, right? and i think this might do it without actually exposing our power roles.

i guess this could be bad for masons, if we have 'em.

anyway, vote: faust, where is that guy.

Follow the cop won't work, huh?

Well I'll test that. I'm a Cop

i... think i kind of want to hug you right now. that's a really cool move, shraeye.

Vote: shraeye
Don't see how it's a good town move right now

I will sleep soon so I'll just sheep Swan with a

Vote: Joseph based on this, and everything else that has happened this game with it.

More detail to come when I rest.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, yeah...of course.

Vote: Joseph

[LaLight]

vote: Joseph, okay

[ashersky]

Hi everyone.

I did read through the first day after I subbed in.  Honestly I didn't get much out of it.

It's nostalgic playing my old setup.

[MiX]

Hi everyone.

I did read through the first day after I subbed in.  Honestly I didn't get much out of it.

It's nostalgic playing my old setup.

I uh. I forgot you were here.

Hi cayvie!

[ashersky]

Also, Jorbles and I are mason.

Also also, Masons should claim here, btw.

[ashersky]

I got the sense that cayvie was scummy on D1?

faust was towny, shraeye was towny...

So far on D2 LL tops the scummy list.

As for yuma my old friend...perma-pass just for coming back.  (Unless you are at L-1, because I can't pass up a hammer.)

[ashersky]

Anything in particular I should pay attention to/give more consideration to?

I did read the entire thread, but when you read without playing, it's not the same.  Happy to go back to certain interactions if people think that's useful.  Otherwise, I think I'll be playing this like a D1 with extra information.

[MiX]

Anything in particular I should pay attention to/give more consideration to?

I did read the entire thread, but when you read without playing, it's not the same.  Happy to go back to certain interactions if people think that's useful.  Otherwise, I think I'll be playing this like a D1 with extra information.

If Jorbles is Joseph, then there's the wagon, which should be pretty cool to look out for. Otherwise there's sheeping shraeye...don't remember much else. I guess Swan did some fun stuff, since I went from scumreading him to townreading him, but...

[ashersky]

Anything in particular I should pay attention to/give more consideration to?

I did read the entire thread, but when you read without playing, it's not the same.  Happy to go back to certain interactions if people think that's useful.  Otherwise, I think I'll be playing this like a D1 with extra information.

If Jorbles is Joseph, then there's the wagon, which should be pretty cool to look out for. Otherwise there's sheeping shraeye...don't remember much else. I guess Swan did some fun stuff, since I went from scumreading him to townreading him, but...

Jorbles was my scum partner in the infamous game where he and I claimed masons as scum from D1 and won the game without ever dying.  I believe shraeye railed against us for making the "wrong" play there, but it worked out swimmingly. So that was just a joke.

I'll wait for some VCA and then go back and read votes.

[MiX]

Obviously that joke flew right past me, but the infamous game was referenced D1 so I didn't trust the mason claim at all. Fun!

Also also, Masons should claim here, btw.

Is this real, or...?

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi everyone.

I did read through the first day after I subbed in.  Honestly I didn't get much out of it.

It's nostalgic playing my old setup.

Welcome! Thanks for subbing in!

[ashersky]

Obviously that joke flew right past me, but the infamous game was referenced D1 so I didn't trust the mason claim at all. Fun!

Also also, Masons should claim here, btw.

Is this real, or...?

I think Masons should claim, yes.  I have zero problem with the D1 NL, as the game is designed with that possibility in mind (even player start).  We lost a VT on N1 to a great play by shraeye (something out of the ashersky manual for town greatness), so we're in a solid "start over" position.

The game is just asher9 with 11 player now.  The possibility of scum claiming masons (after all the talk of how it worked that one time) is low, and dropping our scum pool from 10 to 8 (from the perspective of non masons) is strong, considering we need to find 3.  One mason claiming is also a plan worth considering -- I would leave it to the masons to decide (I'm sure they discussed).

[MiX]

Obviously that joke flew right past me, but the infamous game was referenced D1 so I didn't trust the mason claim at all. Fun!

Also also, Masons should claim here, btw.

Is this real, or...?

I think Masons should claim, yes.  I have zero problem with the D1 NL, as the game is designed with that possibility in mind (even player start).  We lost a VT on N1 to a great play by shraeye (something out of the ashersky manual for town greatness), so we're in a solid "start over" position.

The game is just asher9 with 11 player now.  The possibility of scum claiming masons (after all the talk of how it worked that one time) is low, and dropping our scum pool from 10 to 8 (from the perspective of non masons) is strong, considering we need to find 3.  One mason claiming is also a plan worth considering -- I would leave it to the masons to decide (I'm sure they discussed).

If the point is to drop the pool, the masons can just claim if they're being lynched, and otherwise they can protect themselves through shadier ways in order to not be lynched. I don't see how it's that useful. I suppose 1 mason claim can only happen early, so that's at least one benefit, not sure if worth the risk.

[scolapasta]

With 11, 6 to lynch, yeah?

[scolapasta]

OK, an interesting hypothesis just came to me. Something just doesn't feel right.

If Raptor is town, why wouldn't he just hammer? Seems very strange that they wouldn't be aware of the deadline.

As scum, seems like a very bad move too. Because while no lynch is good for scum, lynching town is always better (no?). So why not lynch Joseph if Joseph is town? So then Joseph is scum partner.

But now both Joseph and Raptor make good lynch targets, so why not just stay quiet and hope for a no lynch happening anyway (as no one else came in at the deadline to hammer).

So doesn't seem like a good move for town or scum. It doesn't add up.

Unless...

Raptor and DatSwan are both scum. They plan on getting DatSwan to convince us to lynch Joseph first, with the argument:

Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

We lynch Joseph, he comes out as town, and now we've been convinced that raptor is town because of it.

Thoughts?

[Swowl]

OK, an interesting hypothesis just came to me. Something just doesn't feel right.

If Raptor is town, why wouldn't he just hammer? Seems very strange that they wouldn't be aware of the deadline.

As scum, seems like a very bad move too. Because while no lynch is good for scum, lynching town is always better (no?). So why not lynch Joseph if Joseph is town? So then Joseph is scum partner.

But now both Joseph and Raptor make good lynch targets, so why not just stay quiet and hope for a no lynch happening anyway (as no one else came in at the deadline to hammer).

So doesn't seem like a good move for town or scum. It doesn't add up.

Unless...

Raptor and DatSwan are both scum. They plan on getting DatSwan to convince us to lynch Joseph first, with the argument:

Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

We lynch Joseph, he comes out as town, and now we've been convinced that raptor is town because of it.

Thoughts?

I mean i know your not asking me - but the obvious flaws would be
A) my logic isn’t far fetched, it follows. Yours is an outside guess.
B) if me and raptor are skum (and Joseph town) Joseph would not be alive rn.
C) You have either on purpose, or accidentally created another skum triangle similar to the play out Joseph did day 1.

1) I am saying Raptor is only being skum read bc no hammer on Joseph. Do you disagree that if Joseph flopped skum you would not be suspicious of him. And flipped, if Joseph flipped green would you not be less suspicious?

2) I made a case, a pretty damn good one, on day 1 about Joseph. So don’t try to spin it off like i am stringing shit together last minute. I wanted Joseph yesterday, and all the actions of the day make me want it even more today.

3) i never made a case on raptor. The case i see on raptor has to do with a fairly straight forward tie to Joseph’s flip..

From my pov i thought Joseph was skum yesterday. I did not feel as so much for raptor. Joseph’s flip could be better in all ways for helping to determine raptors alliance. If we flip raptor, regardless of what they flip. I am still going to think Joseph is skummy.

Essentially - town could maybe make a mistake and forget to come back and hammer an unk player, but skum NEVERRRR makes the mistake the same to hammer non-skum.

I’m just gonna stop there. Your idea is valid in the sense you are allowed your opinion, but it does not follow at all with how the game has played out.

[yuma]

As for yuma my old friend...perma-pass just for coming back.  (Unless you are at L-1, because I can't pass up a hammer.)

You should be reading me as town. I am playing pretty townie.

[yuma]

Joseph doesn't seem likely to be scum. We are using him to figure out Raptor? Raptor is clearly town.

This is a false road to go down.

[A Drowned Kernel]

With 11, 6 to lynch, yeah?

Fixed, thank you.

[yuma]

I want to hold off on talking until Raptor gets here, but I think we are making false assumptions based off false assumptions here. So maybe wait for the players that don't log on quite as much?

[Swowl]

Joseph doesn't seem likely to be scum. We are using him to figure out Raptor? Raptor is clearly town.

This is a false road to go down.

I want to make this super clear - i think Joseph is skum for the pages of reasons i posted on day 1. And yes, i will think less is raptor as town if jospeh flips skum, but ultimately my point here is i do NOT want to lynch raptor today IDO want to lynch Joseph.

There is no false road, there is no road. I already regret using the reasoning i did. It was supposed to deter people from wanting to lynch raptor over Joseph, and yes there was a tone of linking between the two but i can’t help it - what happened happened. So i am suspicious. But i am not advocating raptor, just Joseph.
When Joseph flips skum, then i will deal with raptor, in whichever way makes the most sense to me at that time.

[yuma]

Joseph at L-1?

[yuma]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

[ashersky]

Joseph at L-1?

You called?

vote: Joseph

[Swowl]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

What more evidence do you want from me homie? I undoubtedly had the most articulated following case on Joseph as opposed to anyone else on anyone yesterday. That isn’t rolling dice, that’s making reads.
I mean if evidence = result then yeah, you right. But if we wait for results to find all the skum - we will lose. Gonna have to follow cases when there are cases up know?

I mean by your logic most people seems willing to vote them, so they Town.
Ok, most people seem to find you towny, does that make you skum?

[Swowl]

Joseph at L-1?

You called?

vote: Joseph

Sorry to bum you out. But i believe that is Swan, Mix, LL, WCD, Ash.
Takes 6 so that is L1 i think now

[faust]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Agreed, for the most part.

Sorry for disappearing, I messed up there. But then again, I wouldn't have voted for Joseph, but LaLight I think.

[Swowl]

Also Joseph is my pick. There is essentially nothing that keeps me from that. But i ain’t allowing a hammer until at a minimum all players at least check in.

Unvote

[faust]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

[Swowl]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Agreed, for the most part.

Sorry for disappearing, I messed up there. But then again, I wouldn't have voted for Joseph, but LaLight I think.

So then who is skum y’all?
Or at least who do you more foundation for over my guy?

The ideal that Joseph’s wagon picked up dat one holds literally zero merit BC HE DIDNT GET LYNCHED!
Today - point is taken, different story. But also, he is skummy so i weigh those two am against each other.

[Swowl]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

You think he messed up the math or actually thought he was hammering?

[faust]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

You think he messed up the math or actually thought he was hammering?

I think he didn't bother to check and took the chance hoping it would be a hammer.

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

You think he messed up the math or actually thought he was hammering?

Wouldn't those be the same?

[ashersky]

I figured it was the hammer.  Or, at the least, hoped.  I like hammers.

unvote

[ashersky]

Vote: ashersky

Was scum yesterday, is scum today. Also you can tell that he's fake because he townreads me.

I wasn't in the game yesterday.

If you are voting me because of whatever cayvie did, there is not much I can do about that.

As for townreading you -- forum rules and all, but I think I basically am 100% always correct about you.

[ashersky]

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Agreed, for the most part.

Sorry for disappearing, I messed up there. But then again, I wouldn't have voted for Joseph, but LaLight I think.

So then who is skum y’all?
Or at least who do you more foundation for over my guy?

The ideal that Joseph’s wagon picked up dat one holds literally zero merit BC HE DIDNT GET LYNCHED!
Today - point is taken, different story. But also, he is skummy so i weigh those two am against each other.

Dat, could you summarize your pages of case against Joseph for me?  Or link it?

What's the LL case?

[faust]

If you are voting me because of whatever cayvie did, there is not much I can do about that.

There's not, but you seem to imply that I should disregard it, which is obviously bad play.

[ashersky]

If you are voting me because of whatever cayvie did, there is not much I can do about that.

There's not, but you seem to imply that I should disregard it, which is obviously bad play.

Well, being me now, I would like you to, obviously.  I can't undo it, as it wasn't me.  So, a fresh start, if you will.  (You won't.)

What did she do that was scummy, anyway?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 2.1

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): scolapasta
LaLight (1): yuma
Joseph2302 (3): MiX, WestCoastDidds, LaLight
ashersky (1): faust

Not Voting (4): Joseph2302, Dylan32, Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan, ashersky

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day Two ends at 8 pm forum time April 25th.

[Dylan32]

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

[ashersky]

vote: joseph

[Dylan32]

That's L-1

[faust]

Well, ash... your loss.

Vote: Joseph

[faust]

As for townreading you -- forum rules and all, but I think I basically am 100% always correct about you.

I had to go back and check the five most recent games we played together (where you were town):

RMM53: I'm scum, ash doesn't scumread me until D4.
M120: I'm town, ash scumreads me
M111: I'm town, ash expresses no opinion on me.
RMM43: I'm scum, ash townreads me D1, scumreads me D3.
M91: I'm town, ash scumreads me.

Def 100% record 

[Joseph2302]

Looks like I'm dead
If not, Vote: raptor

Just because I'll flip town, doesn't mean they shouldn't have hammered me D1
We have just wasted a day and given scum and extra NK

[Joseph2302]

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

Vote: Dylan then. Lies

[MiX]

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

Bah, I don't think that was a good claim.

Looks like I'm dead
If not, Vote: raptor

Just because I'll flip town, doesn't mean they shouldn't have hammered me D1
We have just wasted a day and given scum and extra NK

We forced a scum 1v1 so uh if you're town raptor MVP and dylan is weird. But lol you're scum.

Swan IC, Dylan NOT IC, I expect a doctor to do their work tonight.

I feel bad that dylan claimed when he did. It was definitely the worst time to do so I think, since I don't think that's a particularly towny claim, but oh well.

Good night everyone!

[Dylan32]

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

Vote: Dylan then. Lies

There's no point in even really talking about this, but for fun: there's probably some people here who remember the last time I fake claimed 1-shot cop and a fake guilty result as scum. Didn't go well for me at all and pretty directly took it from a reasonably easy scum win at that point to a loss. No chance I do that again my next scum game haha.

ppe 1

[MiX]

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

Vote: Dylan then. Lies

There's no point in even really talking about this, but for fun: there's probably some people here who remember the last time I fake claimed 1-shot cop and a fake guilty result as scum. Didn't go well for me at all and pretty directly took it from a reasonably easy scum win at that point to a loss. No chance I do that again my next scum game haha.

ppe 1

I sorta remember your last scum game, was it that one? I guess not since that game wasn't scum sided at any point IIRC.

Also, the memory I have of "your last scum game" is what makes you unlynchable in my eyes. Take that as you will.

[Dylan32]

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

Vote: Dylan then. Lies

There's no point in even really talking about this, but for fun: there's probably some people here who remember the last time I fake claimed 1-shot cop and a fake guilty result as scum. Didn't go well for me at all and pretty directly took it from a reasonably easy scum win at that point to a loss. No chance I do that again my next scum game haha.

ppe 1

I sorta remember your last scum game, was it that one? I guess not since that game wasn't scum sided at any point IIRC.

Also, the memory I have of "your last scum game" is what makes you unlynchable in my eyes. Take that as you will.

All I remember is Joth was on my scum team, and if my gambit had worked and we lynched the guy I tried to frame, the game was over on an endgame unless a PR blocked a NK

[Dylan32]

btw, yuma is either scum making their best argument or town overthinking:

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

[MiX]

All I remember is Joth was on my scum team, and if my gambit had worked and we lynched the guy I tried to frame, the game was over on an endgame unless a PR blocked a NK

The game I remember also had joth on your scumteam, so maybe it IS the same game!

I loved joth trying very hard to not claim scum. Might be one of the few pre-me games I remember more than vaguely due to rereading it multiple times when I was trying to metaread people.

btw, yuma is either scum making their best argument or town overthinking:

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Yuma is either scum or town, I agree. On a closed setup this would be information but on this one it's not.

[Dylan32]

vote: raptor

Vote: LaLight, raptor is the least scummy out of the no-lynch crew.
...

You were saying later this would change if Joseph flips scum right? Just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying.

[MiX]

vote: raptor

Vote: LaLight, raptor is the least scummy out of the no-lynch crew.
...

You were saying later this would change if Joseph flips scum right? Just wanted to make sure I understood what you were saying.

Yes, if Joseph is scum, so is raptor.

[Dylan32]

All I remember is Joth was on my scum team, and if my gambit had worked and we lynched the guy I tried to frame, the game was over on an endgame unless a PR blocked a NK

The game I remember also had joth on your scumteam, so maybe it IS the same game!

I loved joth trying very hard to not claim scum. Might be one of the few pre-me games I remember more than vaguely due to rereading it multiple times when I was trying to metaread people.

btw, yuma is either scum making their best argument or town overthinking:

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

Yuma is either scum or town, I agree. On a closed setup this would be information but on this one it's not.

I mean, yeah lol. I think my point is that his reasoning lines up with how I would be trying to play this off if I were scum with Joseph right now.  It is possible he's overthinking it, which I would think based on how I was reading him D1, but unless I overhyped his reputation in my mind, I feel like he's more likely making the best scum play than happening into scum's best argument as town.

[Dylan32]

Since we should be in twilight I can wonder out loud, has a real cop ever claimed 1-shot early on in order to share a guilty result and be allowed to live another day?

[Dylan32]

Anyway, I probably won't be back on until after the flip, so later!

[MiX]

Since we should be in twilight I can wonder out loud, has a real cop ever claimed 1-shot early on in order to share a guilty result and be allowed to live another day?

Not that I remember, but it's usually something on people's minds, and was mentioned in M125.

Anyway, I probably won't be back on until after the flip, so later!

Good night, and I hope you die!

[yuma]

Well if I am wrong then I am wrong and glad there is a result so I dont have to try and argue it. It very well could be a situation where scum got themselves into a shitty situation. But it is still the easiest lynch to push through if Joseph and raptor aren't mafia, which makes me not like it. But if they are, then they are.

[yuma]

And my reputation is totally overhyped. My win and lynch record are pretty average.

[Joseph2302]

Since we should be in twilight I can wonder out loud, has a real cop ever claimed 1-shot early on in order to share a guilty result and be allowed to live another day?

You're not a real cop

[faust]

Since we should be in twilight I can wonder out loud, has a real cop ever claimed 1-shot early on in order to share a guilty result and be allowed to live another day?

You're not a real cop

Yeah man, shraeye was the real Cop! The one and only.

[MiX]

Since we should be in twilight I can wonder out loud, has a real cop ever claimed 1-shot early on in order to share a guilty result and be allowed to live another day?

You're not a real cop

Yeah man, shraeye was the real Cop! The one and only.

Well, he did have an innocent result on himself. That's more than dylan for sure!

[Swowl]

Hammered yes?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Joseph2302 has been lynched! He was a Mafia Goon.

Day Two Final Vote Count

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): scolapasta
LaLight (1): yuma
Joseph2302 (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, LaLight, Dylan32, ashersky, faust

Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan

With 11 alive it took 6 to lynch. Night Two begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time April 21st (a little longer night due to my work schedule).

[A Drowned Kernel]

Day Three Start

faust was killed in the night! He was a Vanilla Townie.

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (9): MiX, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96, yuma, ashersky, LaLight, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Three begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time April 28th.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[scolapasta]

OK, So my DatSwan - Raptor hypothesis seems to have been proven incorrect. No problem. Still not sure why Raptor didn't hammer Day 1 (did we ever hear from him, but seems pretty clear he's the one to vote for today.

vote: raptor

[yuma]

Cool. I know I didn't contribute at all, but cool. I am glad Dylan had the result he did cause I probably would have fought all day against the Raptor lynch and probably the Joseph lynch by association. I dont know if I would have been successful in that, but possibly. So good job to Dylan there.

I think actual wagon analysis is still necessary. Raptor certainly looks worse, but I still dont see scum doing what he did. I was about to write more, but did we ever hear from raptor yesterday? I'll wait to say anymore then.

[MiX]

Massclaim, UB says nothing.

I am VT I already softclaimed this anyway. Whoever posts without claiming from now is the same as claiming VT, for obvious reasons.

Dylan and Swan are town. No idea why faust died. Raptor is easily scum, and so is yuma. More thoughts after massclaim.

[yuma]

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I totally understand why I am on the chopping block. It was an honest mistake that I did not hammer on day 1. I really did just loose track of time, i was an hour off of when i thought deadline was. I was not around on open of D2 because it was my IRL bday so wasn't around. I had no problem hammering Joseph, he was not my top but that is not why I didn't hammer.

I honestly rather look at everyone else who wasn't on him end of D1. I understand that some people weren't online, but I feel like I am just the easy scapegoat for scum. I understand that everyone has to to what what they feel is right, but i ask that we at least look at other options before i get lynched.
 

PPE 3

[MiX]

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I am 1- shot doc I have not used my shot.

Massclaim, UB says nothing.

[scolapasta]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

[MiX]

I am 1- shot doc I have not used my shot.

Massclaim, UB says nothing.

Vote: raptor, why didn't you vote dylan?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I am 1- shot doc I have not used my shot.

Massclaim, UB says nothing.

Vote: raptor, why didn't you vote dylan?

what? when?

[LaLight]

vote: raptor

i am a vt

[MiX]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

[ashersky]

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

vote: MiX for scumslip/misdirection.

[MiX]

I am 1- shot doc I have not used my shot.

Massclaim, UB says nothing.

Vote: raptor, why didn't you vote dylan?

what? when?

You're caught scum for not reading the setup. I explaned to scola why you're outed, you can go read the setup to find out why.

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

vote: MiX for scumslip/misdirection.

What???

[MiX]

Okay but seriously, if I said anything wrong, then I don't know what it is and I would like a clarification. What did I get wrong, if at all, and if so, on what? Just voting me isn't helping anyone.

[Swowl]

hold on I need to read - I got shit to say about some of the actions at end of day.

I almost 100% am not going to claim so take that as you will.

[ashersky]

Okay but seriously, if I said anything wrong, then I don't know what it is and I would like a clarification. What did I get wrong, if at all, and if so, on what? Just voting me isn't helping anyone.

Need to be AFK for a bit, will expound later.  But, the short version is, you lied in your post, and I think it would be based on scum thinking.  I think you are partners with either Dylan or Raptor.

[MiX]

Okay but seriously, if I said anything wrong, then I don't know what it is and I would like a clarification. What did I get wrong, if at all, and if so, on what? Just voting me isn't helping anyone.

Need to be AFK for a bit, will expound later.  But, the short version is, you lied in your post, and I think it would be based on scum thinking.  I think you are partners with either Dylan or Raptor.

If the lie is me trusting Dylan's claim, then, sure, I took it as being true. Otherwise I have no idea, but I guess that's how you catch scum? ...Is it about the UB...? I have to admit I didn't think about when the UB claims, but since raptor claimed there's no need to anymore.

I'll sleep on this...

[scolapasta]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

So here's the link that explains it:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797

I'd read it before, but was confused. But I *think* I understand hwo you'r explaining it. You're saying that if of the six letters there had been 0-4 T's then there would not have been a generic mafia goon. Meaning it has to have been at least 5 or 6 T, meaning only one other letter could be none T, and in all those cases, there is only 1 PR.

Is that it?

Now I'll reread to see what you may have missed or misdirected.

[Swowl]

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

this logic checks out. or at least I did it last night and the 5-6 Ts and all that is true.

Raptor has claimed Doc. Dylan has claimed Cop.
There can be at most 1 Town PR. So Both of these cannot be true. 
There can be at most a skum team of Dead!Goon, Goon, and GF.

We have 9 alive. With this play out of events, over today and tomorrow we essentially (or literally I think) find 1 of the remaining skum. There will be a max of 4 flips in that time.
That puts us, worst case, starting Day 5 with 5 players alive - 1 skum and 4 town.

That means on Day 5 if we lynch incorrectly, it goes to last day on Day 6.
MiX, remember I am town before you drill me on this - Skum in this spot would not isolate themselves as raptor has into that kill pool. They would claim VT. The only exception is if Raptor and Dylan are both skum, Raptor is being coached (so he is probably GF in that scenario)... but either way... skum!Anyone, does not open claim knowing that Dylan is town telling the truth.

Also I 100% do not belive Dylan's claim, I was already digging into it last night.

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

So... like that is not how a player plays with a result. They read first. I am 100% on team lynch Dylan right now.
Sigh... However... Dylan is not a bad player, and if they were skum they would of known that flipping a goon means that literally any CC makes it Dylan vs the CC. Which is equally as weird of a play as them being town and claiming the result the way they did.

I am confused. One of them has to be skum at a minimum, but I don't get it. In order:
Dylan is skum Raptor is town
Dylan and Raptor are skum
Raptor is skum Dylan is town

[Swowl]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

So here's the link that explains it:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797

I'd read it before, but was confused. But I *think* I understand hwo you'r explaining it. You're saying that if of the six letters there had been 0-4 T's then there would not have been a generic mafia goon. Meaning it has to have been at least 5 or 6 T, meaning only one other letter could be none T, and in all those cases, there is only 1 PR.

Is that it?

Now I'll reread to see what you may have missed or misdirected.

5-6 Ts generates 2 mafia goons. And I have verified with mod that Godfather cannot be selected for "an additional PR". So If there was an additional PR, it could not be GF. Because everything between 0-4 Ts give 2 PRs to skum, and we have a Goon flip, we have a maximum of 1 pr. Or two I guess, if there are two masons... assuming I understand how that works correctly.

[Swowl]

Okay but seriously, if I said anything wrong, then I don't know what it is and I would like a clarification. What did I get wrong, if at all, and if so, on what? Just voting me isn't helping anyone.

Need to be AFK for a bit, will expound later.  But, the short version is, you lied in your post, and I think it would be based on scum thinking.  I think you are partners with either Dylan or Raptor.

is it the mason thing?
You gotta remember on this one that you created the set up - I had to ask a ton of clarification questions.

Also, there is no reason to lynch anyone other than the counter claims today. 100% one of them at a minimum are lying. And no matter how sure you are, there is a chance you are wrong about mix, which would just put us in the same spot we are today... except it will be tomorrow and if he is town... with 2 town deaths.

[scolapasta]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

So here's the link that explains it:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797

I'd read it before, but was confused. But I *think* I understand hwo you'r explaining it. You're saying that if of the six letters there had been 0-4 T's then there would not have been a generic mafia goon. Meaning it has to have been at least 5 or 6 T, meaning only one other letter could be none T, and in all those cases, there is only 1 PR.

Is that it?

Now I'll reread to see what you may have missed or misdirected.

5-6 Ts generates 2 mafia goons. And I have verified with mod that Godfather cannot be selected for "an additional PR". So If there was an additional PR, it could not be GF. Because everything between 0-4 Ts give 2 PRs to skum, and we have a Goon flip, we have a maximum of 1 pr. Or two I guess, if there are two masons... assuming I understand how that works correctly.

From my now AMAZING understanding of the setup, then yes 5Ts could have 2PR if it's 2 masons (the UB gets replaced by a Mason).

So if we needed to, we could confirm this to be true if the UB wanted to claim. (Is there any reason for UB not to claim at this point? Actually i guess if Raptor is telling the truth, he hasn't spent his shot yet, so that would be the reason).

Anyway, I agree with the we should lynch raptor or dylan today and tomorrow. Not sure which first though anymore. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I kinda believe that raptor honestly forgot.

Is there any realistic scenario for one of them to be town and lie? (at this point?)

[WestCoastDidds]

Howdy hey, friends!

In my experience, it is very like raptor to space on a deadline.

I don’t know Dylan well enough to know if he’d fake a result on his buddy. What would the point of the be? We were well in our way to lynching Joseph without the result.

I’m still a VT.

[Dylan32]

If you're right that the only scenario in which there's another PR is if it's masons, then vote: raptor. DatSwan, I'm flattered you think I'm not a bad player, but my win/loss record would suggest that I very well might be lol.  And having not played in at least a year (or two, don't remember), I was just happy that I found scum D1, turned the wagons away from two people I thought were probably town onto scum!Joseph (yes you were the first to vote, but until my case at #301, there wasn't a wagon or momentum his direction at all) and when I got that result, I just wanted to get it out immediately.  After I had time to think about it and was actually reading the thread, I thought that yeah, might have been good to hold onto that and claim it later, but it got scum lynched so oh well.

[Dylan32]

Howdy hey, friends!

In my experience, it is very like raptor to space on a deadline.

I don’t know Dylan well enough to know if he’d fake a result on his buddy. What would the point of the be? We were well in our way to lynching Joseph without the result.

I’m still a VT.

Let's be honest, your last sentence would answer your own question, but as you can see, people would see right through it if that was what I was trying to do.

[yuma]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

[Dylan32]

If the UB had converted to a mason on a single M roll, they wouldn't be converted. But that doesn't matter because it was TTTTT(E+C) (not sure if regex are usually used to describe the setups or not, but that's what I'm doing)

[Dylan32]

If the UB had converted to a mason on a single M roll, they wouldn't be converted. But that doesn't matter because it was TTTTT(E+C) (not sure if regex are usually used to describe the setups or not, but that's what I'm doing)

Idiot... they wouldn't be informed of the change*

[Dylan32]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

This is interesting since from your perspective there is at least 1 scum in (raptor, Dylan), but rather than going there you just call one of us scummy and vote for someone else. I'm starting to think yuma is the 3rd scum.

[Dylan32]

Oh, and regarding raptor, he's a 1-shot doc that DIDN'T protect a claimed full cop N1.  I'm not going to pretend like I know the intricacies of how to play different PRs correctly, but seems like that would be the wrong move a vast majority of the time. I don't say this because I need convinced, but if you're choosing between a claimed 1-shot doc who let a claimed cop die N1 and a claimed 1-shot cop who accurately called out a scum, I think the right play would be lynch the doc first.

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

[Swowl]

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

explain to me why raptor as skum would claim in the spot they were in. from your pov.

[Swowl]

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

explain to me why raptor as skum would claim in the spot they were in. from your pov.

please, there should of been a please in there.

[Swowl]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

pick one of the people that matter please. splitting the wagons early is only going to rise suspicion down the road. we can limit the WIFOM by just accepting we have to choose between those 2 players.

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

If they are goon goon GF they know that Dylan has to be truthful. They know I (excuse me for assuming) am not getting lynched. yet they choose faust.

The explanation is weird, it is because they are afraid of a doc shot.
They can't be afraid of a doc shot if they think Dylan is telling the truth.
So they are afraid, as Dylan is skum in this scenario, that the doc will target me. So they take the safe kill on a town player that they know is good. Faust.

That explains the Raptor claim. He is town Doctor.
That explains the weirdness behind the Dylan claim, that I have previously brought forth.
That explains the Shraeye kill.

Vote: Dylan

I am trying to bat a perfect game here people - get behind it.

[MiX]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

yuma is the last scum.

Oh, and regarding raptor, he's a 1-shot doc that DIDN'T protect a claimed full cop N1.  I'm not going to pretend like I know the intricacies of how to play different PRs correctly, but seems like that would be the wrong move a vast majority of the time. I don't say this because I need convinced, but if you're choosing between a claimed 1-shot doc who let a claimed cop die N1 and a claimed 1-shot cop who accurately called out a scum, I think the right play would be lynch the doc first.

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

You're right, a 1-shot doc in raptor's position would've doctored someone. They would also vote Dylan first things first today.

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

If they are goon goon GF they know that Dylan has to be truthful. They know I (excuse me for assuming) am not getting lynched. yet they choose faust.

The explanation is weird, it is because they are afraid of a doc shot.
They can't be afraid of a doc shot if they think Dylan is telling the truth.
So they are afraid, as Dylan is skum in this scenario, that the doc will target me. So they take the safe kill on a town player that they know is good. Faust.

That explains the Raptor claim. He is town Doctor.
That explains the weirdness behind the Dylan claim, that I have previously brought forth.
That explains the Shraeye kill.

Vote: Dylan

I am trying to bat a perfect game here people - get behind it.

They left you alive because you clearly have a blindspot for raptor. He had all the heat, he didn't hammer scum and now he's in a conflict with one of the people that most pushed Joseph. How about listening to common knowledge other than lynching the person that had no reason to enter the claiming business?

[MiX]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

[MiX]

Also I 100% do not belive Dylan's claim, I was already digging into it last night.

Haven't read the start of the day, but I am a 1-shot cop and got a guilty result on Joseph. Catching up now.

Vote: Joseph

So... like that is not how a player plays with a result. They read first. I am 100% on team lynch Dylan right now.
Sigh... However... Dylan is not a bad player, and if they were skum they would of known that flipping a goon means that literally any CC makes it Dylan vs the CC. Which is equally as weird of a play as them being town and claiming the result the way they did.

This is exactly how I would play out a Joseph guilty result. Claim it instantly for maximum towncred and lynch them ASAP. Yes, I say towncred, but it's also what town does, they want to make sure their PR makes them townier than others. He was too late to be considered townie, sure, but not due to his play.

From here on, I'm not going to worry too much about accusations or whatever towards me, because as far as I'm concerned, I confirmed Joseph as scum and ended up in a 1v1 with the 2nd scum, so that leaves only 1 other scum to find, so even if y'all decide to lynch me first, I've helped find 2/3 which is better than most of my town games, so I'm not too worried about it.

explain to me why raptor as skum would claim in the spot they were in. from your pov.

Because it's free. He has so much heat, why not claim? That way he gets to share heat with Dylan, which is another lynch candidate. He loses nothing and gains everything! How many times have I said that...

Okay, last post about this, but like, I can't see why you would do this reversal. We lynch raptor first, and that's that. I'm not rewarding not-hammering-scum play, I'm rewarding bussing.

[yuma]

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

pick one of the people that matter please. splitting the wagons early is only going to rise suspicion down the road. we can limit the WIFOM by just accepting we have to choose between those 2 players.

Fine.

vote: Dylan

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 3.1

XXraptorslayer96 (4): scolapasta, MiX, LaLight, Dylan32
MiX (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (2): DatSwan, yuma

Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, Xxraptorslayer96

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Three ends at 8 pm forum time April 28th.

[scolapasta]

Sorry to be "that guy" again, but isn't it 5 to lynch? If so raptor is at L-1.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Sorry to be "that guy" again, but isn't it 5 to lynch? If so raptor is at L-1.

Fixed, thank you.

[LaLight]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

[LaLight]

i think yuma's the last

[MiX]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

[LaLight]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

there is no point for raptor claiming doctor unless he is a doctor. why force 1v1?

yuma just for his play

[scolapasta]

Does anyone disagree that today should be either dylan or raptor and if we're wrong tomorrow is the other one?

I prefer raptor today, but am ok with either so if Dylan gets to L-1, I'll switch.

[MiX]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

there is no point for raptor claiming doctor unless he is a doctor. why force 1v1?

yuma just for his play

There's no point for Dylan to claim cop unless he is a cop. Why force 1v1?

Also, raptor has around 3 misplays already: not hammering, not doctoring anyone knowing he was going to counterclaim Dylan today, and not voting Dylan when claiming. Whereas Dylan made a case and voted Joseph, contributing a lot to Joseph's lynch.

Does anyone disagree that today should be either dylan or raptor and if we're wrong tomorrow is the other one?

I prefer raptor today, but am ok with either so if Dylan gets to L-1, I'll switch.

I hope not.

[yuma]

vote: MIX

[MiX]

vote: MIX

Did you forget about what we were doing today? I can be caught scum and you still lynch in the direct conflict first.

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

[Swowl]

vote: Dylan

sounds about right

i think yuma's the last

Raptor/yuma makes the most sense so far. Why Dylan?

there is no point for raptor claiming doctor unless he is a doctor. why force 1v1?

Correct. This. Yes.

[yuma]

vote: MIX

Did you forget about what we were doing today? I can be caught scum and you still lynch in the direct conflict first.

Nope. Didn't forget. We can still accomplish what we want with or without my vote right now.

Funny thing about votes is that they can move around.

[scolapasta]

RE: raptor claiming doctor, wouldn't the point be for us to lynch dylan first, getting an extra VT kill?

Similarly, not killing Dylan so that aspect could be raised as suspect and again steering us away from raptor for one more day?

I mean Dylan isn't a threat to them anymore. So they could kill him and then we'd lynch raptor.

Or they could leave him alive and cause us to doubt and possibly mislynch.

[MiX]

I will just say, WIFOM, and there's no reason to vote Dylan over Raptor. Let's assume neither one had claimed. Do you think Dylan would be a consideration for today? Maybe, but not as much as he is right now. Raptor's claim makes us have to 50/50, which is MUCH better than the odds he had of living this day. And, again, for hopefully the last time, Raptor has played a pro-Joseph pro-scum game, whereas Dylan has played an anti-Joseph game. I'm never willing to move to Dylan, not before Raptor. I obviously can't see your points with objectivity, Swan, so I'm not going to bother with arguing with them. It's just, everything you say I can point to Dylan and it makes even less sense if he's scum.

Tell me if you want me to try to argue against each and every individual point you have versus Dylan, it's going to take a while and I'm not sure it's worth it.

vote: MIX

Did you forget about what we were doing today? I can be caught scum and you still lynch in the direct conflict first.

Nope. Didn't forget. We can still accomplish what we want with or without my vote right now.

Funny thing about votes is that they can move around.

If you're voting without wanting me lynched then your vote will lose power. Just say "you're scum" or "FoS: MiX", no reason to hinder your wagon while making a point.

PPE: My thoughts exactly.

[scolapasta]

In summary, it seemed extremely likely that after lynching Joseph, we'd go after Raptor. So anything scum can do to delay that a day seems a worthy gambit.

Not NKing Dylan and Raptor claiming 1-shot doctor both fit that gambit.

[scolapasta]

Oh, and I've changed my mind about switching to Dylan if he gets to L-1. At least, not automatically.

I'm not saying it might not be Dylan. But Raptor, then Dylan makes so much more sense than Dylan then Raptor.

[yuma]

I use votes differently than most people. Doesn't mean it loses its power.

[MiX]

I use votes differently than most people. Doesn't mean it loses its power.

Your vote is better off deciding which of Dylan/Raptor is lynched than on me to make a point. Unless this was a covert way of unvoting, in which case I have no idea why you would hide that read, it doesn't matter for scum.

[yuma]

I use votes differently than most people. Doesn't mean it loses its power.

Your vote is better off deciding which of Dylan/Raptor is lynched than on me to make a point. Unless this was a covert way of unvoting, in which case I have no idea why you would hide that read, it doesn't matter for scum.

My vote can still decide that. Once I feel like I want it to decide that. I am not just making a point.

[yuma]

Also I would vastly prefer to hear from ashersky before we end the day.

[Dylan32]

@Datswan, shraeye claimed cop D1, and was killed because scum believed him to be a 1-shot cop knowing that there was a very strong chance of either a 1-shot cop or doc.  I claimed 1-shot cop and peg Joseph as scum, scum knows I already used my shot and CAN'T be a full cop because they are goon, goon, GF, so there's no reason for them TO kill me.

[Dylan32]

As for why raptor claims, he was the obvious next lynch, and either:
A) he didn't understand the setup to realize any claim would be a counterclaim on me and made a mistake (hence not voting for me when he claimed)
or
B) he knew it was a counterclaim and figured he'd have a better chance of surviving another day by forcing a 1v1 than by just trying to fake a case on someone else or relying on his partner to push somewhere else (which would make it easier to find the 3rd scum if he was the lynch)

[Dylan32]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

Or, and this is just as plausible as their "worried about a doc" theory, they were simply more worried about a town!faust than town!DatSwan.

[Dylan32]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

Or, and this is just as plausible as their "worried about a doc" theory, they were simply more worried about a town!faust than town!DatSwan.

And why wouldn't they be afraid of you? Because based on your "I don't believe Dylan's claim" yesterday, they knew they could count on you to push away from scum!raptor's lynch and onto a mislynch. And that's assuming you aren't actually just scum that played a great D1.

[Swowl]

@Datswan, shraeye claimed cop D1, and was killed because scum believed him to be a 1-shot cop knowing that there was a very strong chance of either a 1-shot cop or doc.  I claimed 1-shot cop and peg Joseph as scum, scum knows I already used my shot and CAN'T be a full cop because they are goon, goon, GF, so there's no reason for them TO kill me.

the bolded part is why I am suspicious of you

[Swowl]

OK how bout this.

They killed Shraeye. They didn't kill Dylan.

They killed shraeye! They're obviously not afraid of a doctor. Killing shraeye, knowing there couldn't be any cop, was either to kill a 1-shot cop or just because why not. No scum on their right mind kills Dylan, they would kill you or some random, never the PR claim, since you can win the 1v1.

I don't understand why this is even a question, raptor is also objectively scummier than Dylan, and there's no reason for dylan to do this while raptor has nothing to lose by claiming.

I strongly disagree. and it is a question not to create a comparison between the players.

Shraeye claimed cop. Skum shot shraeye.
Dylan claimed cop... And skum chose NOT to shoot Dylan or ME. Only reason for that is because they are worried there could be a doctor. How would they think that is true? If Dylan is skum.

I guess my point was with the question, that I find it strange they did not catch onto the Shraeye claim being a draw kill because they were worried it could be true.
They chose their kill target last night, because they were worried about something.

I haven't eaten today yet I can probably explain that better later, but I think it is actually an extremely solid point.

Or, and this is just as plausible as their "worried about a doc" theory, they were simply more worried about a town!faust than town!DatSwan.

And why wouldn't they be afraid of you? Because based on your "I don't believe Dylan's claim" yesterday, they knew they could count on you to push away from scum!raptor's lynch and onto a mislynch. And that's assuming you aren't actually just scum that played a great D1.

The only thing I said for the entirty of Day 2, after you had claimed, was this:

Hammered yes?

I did not bring forth my "Dylan could be lying" theory until today... Day 3. So they certainly did not go to night planning to have me help push away from Raptor. If anything, the last things I said about Raptor would suggest I would be gunning for Raptor today.

[Swowl]

Dylan - What was your read on Joseph before you got your result back?

[Swowl]

also people go ahead and weigh in on this theory please...

Raptor claim to NOT of used his shot.
There is a UB in the game.
That essentially makes Raptor the "safe lynch" in the world where we lynch one today and find skum tomorrow if we are wrong.

This is to say, it invites the obvious concept of lynching raptor... UB gets 1 shot doc ... They use it on whoever they like or not whatever... but skum has no idea who has it.
I believe that skum in this spot would claimed to of used the shot on (just saying) myself last night and they do not have a shot left, giving us less incentive to lynch them today.

[Dylan32]

Dylan - What was your read on Joseph before you got your result back?

I thought he was scummier than the two other wagons that were leading D1, which is why at post #301 I made a small case looking at his play and voted for him.  I was the 2nd person on the wagon behind only yourself, and then a wagon formed on him.

[Dylan32]

And sorry, I guess I misremembered how long ago you had said that.

[scolapasta]

Sure, but the alternative there is that of we mislynch raptor, we'll still have the doc as the UB.

[Swowl]

Sure, but the alternative there is that of we mislynch raptor, we'll still have the doc as the UB.

right, fair. My point was more supposed to be focused on the fact that he CLAIMED it. Not how it would ACTUALLY play out.
Does that make sense? Like I feel like skum would claim to of used the shot.

[Swowl]

Raptor - you wanna like... weigh in here somewhere?

[Swowl]

I have only played a few games with Dylan - is it likely he would think of faking that townslip?

[WestCoastDidds]

Raptor - you wanna like... weigh in here somewhere?

Right?

[Dylan32]

I'm willing to engage in good faith that you aren't scum here, so...

also people go ahead and weigh in on this theory please...

Raptor claim to NOT of used his shot.
There is a UB in the game.
That essentially makes Raptor the "safe lynch" in the world where we lynch one today and find skum tomorrow if we are wrong.

This is to say, it invites the obvious concept of lynching raptor... UB gets 1 shot doc ... They use it on whoever they like or not whatever... but skum has no idea who has it.
I believe that skum in this spot would claimed to of used the shot on (just saying) myself last night and they do not have a shot left, giving us less incentive to lynch them today.

If you are wrong about your reads (a given from my perspective, but I digress), then I doubt scum would have been even really thinking you were an obvious lynch target, and so wouldn't have thought out what you think they should have done.

The thing I find harder to believe is town!Raptor holding his doctor shot with a claimed cop out there N1.  Like, if there wasn't a claim, I get holding the shot for a day, but the cop claim is as good a target as you're going to find unless you just straight up think the person is lying.  I think scum!raptor just didn't think through what he actually would have done as a 1-shot doc before he claimed.

ppe 5 distracted by food mid-post

[WestCoastDidds]

Yuma, Asher...why the votes for MiX?

[MiX]

also people go ahead and weigh in on this theory please...

Raptor claim to NOT of used his shot.
There is a UB in the game.
That essentially makes Raptor the "safe lynch" in the world where we lynch one today and find skum tomorrow if we are wrong.

This is to say, it invites the obvious concept of lynching raptor... UB gets 1 shot doc ... They use it on whoever they like or not whatever... but skum has no idea who has it.
I believe that skum in this spot would claimed to of used the shot on (just saying) myself last night and they do not have a shot left, giving us less incentive to lynch them today.

Scum isn't perfect. Regardless of who is scum, they have clearly not played perfectly. Assuming this is crazy. For all we know that's exactly what scum wanted you to think.

I have only played a few games with Dylan - is it likely he would think of faking that townslip?

...what townslip?

[Swowl]

I'm willing to engage in good faith that you aren't scum here, so...

also people go ahead and weigh in on this theory please...

Raptor claim to NOT of used his shot.
There is a UB in the game.
That essentially makes Raptor the "safe lynch" in the world where we lynch one today and find skum tomorrow if we are wrong.

This is to say, it invites the obvious concept of lynching raptor... UB gets 1 shot doc ... They use it on whoever they like or not whatever... but skum has no idea who has it.
I believe that skum in this spot would claimed to of used the shot on (just saying) myself last night and they do not have a shot left, giving us less incentive to lynch them today.

If you are wrong about your reads (a given from my perspective, but I digress), then I doubt scum would have been even really thinking you were an obvious lynch target, and so wouldn't have thought out what you think they should have done.

The thing I find harder to believe is town!Raptor holding his doctor shot with a claimed cop out there N1.  Like, if there wasn't a claim, I get holding the shot for a day, but the cop claim is as good a target as you're going to find unless you just straight up think the person is lying.  I think scum!raptor just didn't think through what he actually would have done as a 1-shot doc before he claimed.

ppe 5 distracted by food mid-post

hmm. that is a decent enough point.

[Swowl]

also people go ahead and weigh in on this theory please...

Raptor claim to NOT of used his shot.
There is a UB in the game.
That essentially makes Raptor the "safe lynch" in the world where we lynch one today and find skum tomorrow if we are wrong.

This is to say, it invites the obvious concept of lynching raptor... UB gets 1 shot doc ... They use it on whoever they like or not whatever... but skum has no idea who has it.
I believe that skum in this spot would claimed to of used the shot on (just saying) myself last night and they do not have a shot left, giving us less incentive to lynch them today.

Scum isn't perfect. Regardless of who is scum, they have clearly not played perfectly. Assuming this is crazy. For all we know that's exactly what scum wanted you to think.

I have only played a few games with Dylan - is it likely he would think of faking that townslip?

...what townslip?

messed up when I came after him.
If I came after him yesterday, which I didn't, it would mean it dictated skums choice. but I didn't and if he were skum that would be fresh in the mind. so either actual oversight, or a fake slip.

[Swowl]

unvote

[MiX]

I have only played a few games with Dylan - is it likely he would think of faking that townslip?

...what townslip?

messed up when I came after him.
If I came after him yesterday, which I didn't, it would mean it dictated skums choice. but I didn't and if he were skum that would be fresh in the mind. so either actual oversight, or a fake slip.

Ah, then no, I don't think Dylan would think about creating that. He can be scum that confused you with someone else, but I don't think he would think about doing this on purpose.

unvote

Yay!

[Swowl]

There is one other thing.

If the roll is 5Ts - Skum is given a choice of assigning BP to a Goon or they can reject it.
If the roll is 6Ts - Skum is RANDOMLY assigned a BP. As in they do not get a choice.

That would be important here because if they were randomly assigned BP, they would know that there are ZERO Town PRs in the game. Whereas if they chose yes or no for BP, they would know there is one. So... not that I am super advocating it at this point - but there is a world in which both of them are skum. I... don't really have a realistic scenario in how they get to this point... so it is probably unlikely, but I want it said.

[MiX]

There is one other thing.

If the roll is 5Ts - Skum is given a choice of assigning BP to a Goon or they can reject it.
If the roll is 6Ts - Skum is RANDOMLY assigned a BP. As in they do not get a choice.

That would be important here because if they were randomly assigned BP, they would know that there are ZERO Town PRs in the game. Whereas if they chose yes or no for BP, they would know there is one. So... not that I am super advocating it at this point - but there is a world in which both of them are skum. I... don't really have a realistic scenario in how they get to this point... so it is probably unlikely, but I want it said.

This is incorrect, the randomly forced BP is at 0Ts, not 6.

[Swowl]

OK more importantly. There are 4 options here:

1) Lynch Dylan, they are Town: Skum kills at night. We lynch Raptor tomorrow. Down 2 town, 1 Skum. UB gets nothing.

2) Lynch Dylan, they are Skum: Skum *probably* kills Raptor at night. Down 1 Town, 1 Skum. UB gets Doc Shot or Raptor is alive the next day. (yes, I am coaching. If that happens - Raptor 100% should NOT shoot at night. It gives us a GTD. Even if they shoot off of him and hit UB Raptor is then alive).

3) Lynch Raptor, they are Town: Skum kills at night. We lynch Dylan. Down 2 town, 1 Skum. UB gets 1 shot Doc.

4) Lynch Raptor, they are Skum: Skum kills Dylan at night. Down 1 Town, 1 Skum. UB gets nothing.


So from a mathematical approach...
- #1 and #3 share the same outcome, except that by lynching Raptor (#3) we get the shot to UB.
- #2 and #4 share the same outcome, except that by lynching Dylan (#2) UB gets a shot if Raptor doesn't use it.

#1 we lynch town and UB gets nadda
#2 we lynch skum and UB gets doc shot
#3 we lynch town and UB gets doc shot
#4 we lynch skum and UB gets nadda


If we lynch Dylan either they are skum AND we still have the Doc shot in play.. or they are Town and there is no upside outside of that which exists in every scenario.
If we lynch Raptor either they are skum and we don't have the doc shot (bc it never existed) or we lynch town and the UB gets the Doc Shot.

Hedge logic would dictate we lynch Raptor here.

IDK what to say other than that. Unless they are both skum, one of them made a mistake. It happens, but it is hard from the outside to decide who that is. So I vote we go with math. Again, Holding off on presenting the option for a quick hammer, but consider my a Raptor vote at this point.


PPE Mix - You are correct I misread. So there is now essentially a 0% chance in my mind they are both skum, so my post here I stand by even more.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Raptor - you wanna like... weigh in here somewhere?

Catching up on what exactly is going on.

Vote: Dylan I know what I am. Dylan must be scum, unless he lied for some reason. I'm sorry team for flopping on the D1 hammer.

[ashersky]

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

[MiX]

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

How about, when are you right about me. Not this game at least.

Also you're exactly the person that would NK faust when he died.

[Dylan32]

So instead of just going with which of the two of us makes more sense to lynch, I thought I'd actually build a more normal case so that people can feel good about lynching him first rather than just "well it makes more strategic sense to lynch raptor first."

Same old D1 schmooze.. I don't think that we are going to claim today. I'm very intrigued by shraeye cop claim thing, so i kinda want to see how that plays out.

Vote: Faust

Catching up in the next few hours!

Empty promises.

You are incorrect good sir, guess we just have different definitions of a few..
jk yeah I totally lost track of time.

His reaction to the claim seems weird, but at the very least, there's no real suggestion of doubt that would suggest he wouldn't use a doc shot on him if other people seemed to buy the claim.  Also, wants faust lynched.

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Again, wants faust gone.  Has made a point twice to say they'd be ok with WCD.

I don't really want to lynch WCD but down to if we need to push it through at deadline.

MIX and Swan are not playing like themselves. Mix is playing way more towny then he normally does, so I don't know what to make of that. Swan is coming off scummy to but he just does that when he talks sometime.


 Faust and swan would be my top pics, I would settle for WCD or Mix today.

Why faust and Swan as your top 2?

Gut feeling, both seem to be playing abnormal / don't like their arguments.

convince me to vote WCD.

Builds on the previous point, puts the onus on someone else to build a case on a lynch candidate for him instead of trying to read himself.  I don't know how much raptor has played as scum, but it seems like it is easier to coast as scum since you know alignments and just wait for other people to build cases. Obviously experienced scum should be better at faking cases, but based on other mistakes in play this game, I think it's fair to guess that raptor fell into that here.

Probably time to start narrowing the Lynch pool. LL and WCD lead the count with 3 votes, Faust with 2, Swan, Cayvie and Joseph all with 1 vote. Someone could double check me.

Unless I'm in total disagreement I think that we should focus on LL, WCD and Faust. I'm up for making a last ditch effort on someone but with 12? hours, it needs to happen now. Let me know your guys thoughts!

One of his two top candidates are one of his own 3 finalists, and yet raptor tries to make himself seem protown by being willing to look elsewhere to get a lynch through instead of trying to actually push faust's wagon.

I totally understand why I am on the chopping block. It was an honest mistake that I did not hammer on day 1. I really did just loose track of time, i was an hour off of when i thought deadline was. I was not around on open of D2 because it was my IRL bday so wasn't around. I had no problem hammering Joseph, he was not my top but that is not why I didn't hammer.

I honestly rather look at everyone else who wasn't on him end of D1. I understand that some people weren't online, but I feel like I am just the easy scapegoat for scum. I understand that everyone has to to what what they feel is right, but i ask that we at least look at other options before i get lynched.
 
PPE 3

I'm even willing to grant that raptor did just mess the time up, and that's why he missed the hammer.  However, he asked when the deadline was. roughly 45 minutes and 3 or 4 posts later there was an official vote count with deadline info.  Intent to hammer came 2 posts and about 6 minutes after that.  10 minutes later:

ok

I was giving it 15/20 min to see if Joseph was around to claim or say something

aka giving Joseph a chance to defend himself to try to steer the wagon somewhere else. There was no real point to delay hammering after this point anyway, because there wasn't enough time left to go anywhere else.

Faust being the nk would be consistent with raptor being a little worried about faust's reputation for scum hunting (and seeing faust hammer Joseph fairly quickly could have fed that a little).

But another point, this is most of his game. Even if you don't think my comments are a good case (probably at least not as good as the one on Joseph), this is pretty much raptor's whole game up until the claim. For the sake of argument, if you lynch him first and he's town, you aren't honestly losing that much since the UB is still hidden and gets the doc shot. If you lynch me first, from a PR standpoint you aren't losing anything anymore, but I would like to think I've been a fairly active player that was a big part of the reason the wagon formed on Joseph in the first place, and if raptor flips scum first, I would think I'd be as close to IC as you can get without a true result on me having been on the right end of confrontations with 2 scum, so I'm probably going to eventually soak up an NK, giving you more time to find the 3rd scum if we don't get them tomorrow.

ppe at least 4, got called outside to help with the doge.

[yuma]

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

Mix dylan

[Dylan32]

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

I'm curious why you think MiX + raptor is a possibility? Because that would mean MiX is driving an extremely hard bus on his only remaining partner.

[ashersky]

This may be backward or stream of consciousness, so feel free to just ask for clarification.

I quoted MiX's post when I voted.  There are two issues inherent in that post that are problematic and triggered my spidey-sense.

1) As has by now been pointed out by others, MiX clearly lied about the possibilities regarding the setup.
2) The by far most likely reasoning for A is that MiX was coming from a scum perspective that needed that false understanding of the setup to be accepted/true for the gambit to work.

I'll explain those shortly, but the gambit itself: manipulate the situation to ensure an extra day of survival for one of the remaining two scum players who was likely to be lynched, namely Dylan or raptor.

Why was this important?  Well, raptor for the failed hammer after intent on D1 of a flipped scum player.  Dylan for the claim on D2.  The various levels of scumminess/towniness of these events are for each player to decide.

Raptor: could be honest that he forgot, missed the deadline, etc.  We've all done it.  Could have been a partner not wanting to bus hammer on D1, although the price to be paid would not be worth it (in my opinion).
Dylan: could be honest and caught scum, yay!  Could be scum ploy to buy cred given what happened on D1.  Other players have provided reasoning on this (shraeye killed while Dylan not, etc.).  This post is about MiX though.

So, anyway, short description of why a gambit occurred.

Back to MiX.  It's clear to me that this day has been dominated by MiX's start to the day.  He calls for claims, he declares the setup, etc.  Generally, this reads to me as premeditated, planned at night, for a purpose.  It's built around finding the next lynch -- I believe because he already knows that there will be a counterclaim to Dylan.  We saw the goon flip.  The most likely scenario then, is no more claims, IF Dylan is telling the truth.  As has been pointed out, what benefit comes from a fake counterclaim when it only buys you a 1v1 at best?  We have the numbers, so giving up a mislynch isn't so bad. 

Yet MiX's post definitely read like he was basically inviting the counterclaim to Dylan.  "The setup must be X so there can't be a counterclaim so counterclaim already so my plan can run its course!!!"  That's scummy.

Back to A above -- MiX forcefully presents false/misleading information about the possibilities of the setup BECAUSE he already knows the fakeclaim in play.  This strongly points to Dylan's claim being fake.  MiX only considers the one PR setup because they've already played that hand, so he forgets to consider all actually possibilities.  It helps that shraeye played into his thinking earlier, then they committed to the plan.  This is the scumslip, in my opinion, because scum do this all time.  They build a false world in which they play townie, try to spread that world view onto the rest to make themselves look townie.  But they forget that there is also a reality out there.

I feel like this is getting long.  I'll try to summarize my feeling: MiX entered today with a plan.  That plan was to force a counterclaim for his team's fake claimant.  That plan was predicated on the fake claim of one scum player, which means one PR, and in building the plan, slipped on including all possibilities.

[ashersky]

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

I'm curious why you think MiX + raptor is a possibility? Because that would mean MiX is driving an extremely hard bus on his only remaining partner.

Getting to that.

Given my strong read on MiX's actions, if you want to argue that Dylan is town, the entire plan works with have pre-planned raptor counterclaiming Dylan.  Again, I don't think that's a good plan -- the Dylan claiming on D2 plan is the better of the scum lie plans -- but it is technically possible. 

The hard bus is just as likely to backfire (which is what he wants) as it is to work.  It's not like he's being that convincing.  You are doing a better job of making a case against raptor, which is good for you if you are town or scum.

[MiX]

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

I'm curious why you think MiX + raptor is a possibility? Because that would mean MiX is driving an extremely hard bus on his only remaining partner.

That's exactly what I would do if I was his scumbuddy. Because I think I'm so right about raptor being the lynch, that I would completely tunnel on it being true as scum. It's not like anyone listens to me lol.

Okay, I'm around now.  Sorry I didn't make it back to a computer yesterday to expound.  I will share my thought process now.  But, in short:

Scum team has to be MiX + Dylan or MiX + raptor.

Mix dylan

And the prize for town tunneling is stolen by me and goes to whichever is town out of you two!

PPE 2: If your argument is that I planned to have a massclaim after Joseph flipped and I thought about it at night, yes, guilty is charged. There was no reason to mention 6T roll before the massclaim was done with, it was much better to pretend Dylan is an IC if no one CCs, that way we hopefully get scum to CC, which is much better.

I was most definitely inviting the counterclaim, and it worked, and it's pro-town, and it's what town!MiX does because it's what I did. Just because my plan worked doesn't mean I had to coordinate it with scum.

PPE: I physically cannot be any more convincing than I am being right now. It's really not up to me whether people believe me or not.

[ashersky]

As for lynching today -- MiX is the common denominator.  100% chance of there, while only 50/50 in the other two.

Plus, I think those two sort themselves out.  Literally we can just lynch in order if they both survive to tomorrow.  You have to think town!raptor dies now, and we still get the UB shot anyway, but if not, scum plays guess the unprotected townie so we have a slight chance of protection either way.  And if it's town!Dylan, well, we can still take care of business.

Finding the third scum is harder, except that I found him.  Let's confirm that, then just go through the motions for the win.

[ashersky]

PPE 2: If your argument is that I planned to have a massclaim after Joseph flipped and I thought about it at night, yes, guilty is charged. There was no reason to mention 6T roll before the massclaim was done with, it was much better to pretend Dylan is an IC if no one CCs, that way we hopefully get scum to CC, which is much better.

I was most definitely inviting the counterclaim, and it worked, and it's pro-town, and it's what town!MiX does because it's what I did. Just because my plan worked doesn't mean I had to coordinate it with scum.

PPE: I physically cannot be any more convincing than I am being right now. It's really not up to me whether people believe me or not.

It is also completely scum!MiX to ignore actual points and move toward ATE as soon as possible, I believe.

You haven't even owned up to the setup lie, which is funny at this point.  I didn't even have to clarify it, as someone else caught it in the meantime.

[MiX]

As for lynching today -- MiX is the common denominator.  100% chance of there, while only 50/50 in the other two.

Plus, I think those two sort themselves out.  Literally we can just lynch in order if they both survive to tomorrow.  You have to think town!raptor dies now, and we still get the UB shot anyway, but if not, scum plays guess the unprotected townie so we have a slight chance of protection either way.  And if it's town!Dylan, well, we can still take care of business.

Finding the third scum is harder, except that I found him.  Let's confirm that, then just go through the motions for the win.

I flip town, the whole game comes crashing down upon us. There's no way we lynch me today. If I'm caught scum, why wouldn't you just do the 50/50 anyway? You've already won, right?

Lynching anyone other than Dylan/Raptor is anti-town, and you know better than that.

PPE 2: If your argument is that I planned to have a massclaim after Joseph flipped and I thought about it at night, yes, guilty is charged. There was no reason to mention 6T roll before the massclaim was done with, it was much better to pretend Dylan is an IC if no one CCs, that way we hopefully get scum to CC, which is much better.

I was most definitely inviting the counterclaim, and it worked, and it's pro-town, and it's what town!MiX does because it's what I did. Just because my plan worked doesn't mean I had to coordinate it with scum.

PPE: I physically cannot be any more convincing than I am being right now. It's really not up to me whether people believe me or not.

It is also completely scum!MiX to ignore actual points and move toward ATE as soon as possible, I believe.

You haven't even owned up to the setup lie, which is funny at this point.  I didn't even have to clarify it, as someone else caught it in the meantime.

Which lie, the omission of 6T rolls?

[ashersky]

Oh, one thing I wanted to mention, although it isn't strong proof of anything:

My very first game was M10.  I was a PR in a ++ setup (or something like it).  Captain_Frisk claimed a PR which could not have existed due to mine, but I didn't catch it in time to counter that day.  So it is possible for a player to have a role which precludes another claim and not realize it.

[yuma]

I was the mod that game! First one! The death of Donald x

[ashersky]

As for lynching today -- MiX is the common denominator.  100% chance of there, while only 50/50 in the other two.

Plus, I think those two sort themselves out.  Literally we can just lynch in order if they both survive to tomorrow.  You have to think town!raptor dies now, and we still get the UB shot anyway, but if not, scum plays guess the unprotected townie so we have a slight chance of protection either way.  And if it's town!Dylan, well, we can still take care of business.

Finding the third scum is harder, except that I found him.  Let's confirm that, then just go through the motions for the win.

I flip town, the whole game comes crashing down upon us. There's no way we lynch me today. If I'm caught scum, why wouldn't you just do the 50/50 anyway? You've already won, right?

Lynching anyone other than Dylan/Raptor is anti-town, and you know better than that.

If you flip town (you won't), the game doesn't end in fire and chaos.  There are other players who can play, you know.  We don't revolve around you.  Also, 100% is better than 50% to me.  Also, I generally feel strongly that following scum's plan, even if you think you have figured it out, is not a good way to play the game.

PPE 2: If your argument is that I planned to have a massclaim after Joseph flipped and I thought about it at night, yes, guilty is charged. There was no reason to mention 6T roll before the massclaim was done with, it was much better to pretend Dylan is an IC if no one CCs, that way we hopefully get scum to CC, which is much better.

I was most definitely inviting the counterclaim, and it worked, and it's pro-town, and it's what town!MiX does because it's what I did. Just because my plan worked doesn't mean I had to coordinate it with scum.

PPE: I physically cannot be any more convincing than I am being right now. It's really not up to me whether people believe me or not.

It is also completely scum!MiX to ignore actual points and move toward ATE as soon as possible, I believe.

You haven't even owned up to the setup lie, which is funny at this point.  I didn't even have to clarify it, as someone else caught it in the meantime.

Which lie, the omission of 6T rolls?

No.  But thank you for admitting to lying.

vote: MiX again and forever.

[ashersky]

Also holy crap M126.  That's so many games!

[MiX]

If I flip town nothing will happen. There are no reads to be obtained with my flip. Unless you want heat on yourself and yuma, which you already have for simply voting me instead of the conflict. That's not pro-you, nor pro-town.

Just because you made a plan it doesn't mean it's better for town than scum's plan.

I'm done defending myself obviously nothing will change by me talking. I'm voting for scum, I suggest you all vote for scum.

For my amusement, can you make an organized list of every lie I said? Should also get people voting for me, that's what you want, right.

[ashersky]

Also, another point:

MiX's plan is pretty ingenious in that mislynching OR correct lynching between Dylan and raptor doesn't connect back to him.  His setup completely built a bubble  around the two -- it in fact discourages looking at anyone else, which is the key to winning for scum at this point.  The second member is lost either way.  They are working together to actively protect the third.

If you want to choose which one is MiX's partner, look at who's actively trying to help.

[yuma]

Dylan!

[ashersky]

If I flip town nothing will happen. There are no reads to be obtained with my flip. Unless you want heat on yourself and yuma, which you already have for simply voting me instead of the conflict. That's not pro-you, nor pro-town.

Just because you made a plan it doesn't mean it's better for town than scum's plan.

I'm done defending myself obviously nothing will change by me talking. I'm voting for scum, I suggest you all vote for scum.

For my amusement, can you make an organized list of every lie I said? Should also get people voting for me, that's what you want, right.

At this point, you sound like caught scum.

I don't need to list your lies -- the fact that you lied, and admit to that, is all that should matter.

[MiX]

If I flip town nothing will happen. There are no reads to be obtained with my flip. Unless you want heat on yourself and yuma, which you already have for simply voting me instead of the conflict. That's not pro-you, nor pro-town.

Just because you made a plan it doesn't mean it's better for town than scum's plan.

I'm done defending myself obviously nothing will change by me talking. I'm voting for scum, I suggest you all vote for scum.

For my amusement, can you make an organized list of every lie I said? Should also get people voting for me, that's what you want, right.

At this point, you sound like caught scum.

I don't need to list your lies -- the fact that you lied, and admit to that, is all that should matter.

When in the history of mafia do you tell the truth early D3? Of course I was baiting scum, why in the world would I say everything I think about the setup and the claims and my personal read on Dylan, etc etc.

It would be a better case if you listed them. I promise I won't argue against it, if that's what you're afraid of. I'll let it be there, unopposed.

If you think this is caught scum, then think again. This is town that is being tunneled for tunneling, and once Raptor flips scum you'll see I was right and you are wrong. But before that I don't have the willpower to fight you and yuma.

[ashersky]

When in the history of mafia do you tell the truth early D3? Of course I was baiting scum, why in the world would I say everything I think about the setup and the claims and my personal read on Dylan, etc etc.

It would be a better case if you listed them. I promise I won't argue against it, if that's what you're afraid of. I'll let it be there, unopposed.

These two lines...

So your argument is that everyone is lying?  Or that no one should tell the truth on D3?  What?  We share information that is useful to town.  We tell the truth to catch bad guys.  Like, the setup is a secret, so telling us what YOU think about the setup as town can only help us.  Scum already knows more about the setup from the first moment than we do, so what did you think you were hiding from them?  There's no town plan to catch scum on D3 after claims in a setup like this, no "baiting scum" to be done.  They most likely know everything.  That is just a flimsy cover for being caught with a scum plan.

The second line is more thinly veiled ATE.  It isn't based on anything other than gaining sympathy from other players.

[MiX]

When in the history of mafia do you tell the truth early D3? Of course I was baiting scum, why in the world would I say everything I think about the setup and the claims and my personal read on Dylan, etc etc.

It would be a better case if you listed them. I promise I won't argue against it, if that's what you're afraid of. I'll let it be there, unopposed.

These two lines...

So your argument is that everyone is lying?  Or that no one should tell the truth on D3?  What?  We share information that is useful to town.  We tell the truth to catch bad guys.  Like, the setup is a secret, so telling us what YOU think about the setup as town can only help us.  Scum already knows more about the setup from the first moment than we do, so what did you think you were hiding from them?  There's no town plan to catch scum on D3 after claims in a setup like this, no "baiting scum" to be done.  They most likely know everything.  That is just a flimsy cover for being caught with a scum plan.

The second line is more thinly veiled ATE.  It isn't based on anything other than gaining sympathy from other players.

I'm using ATE because I have no idea how to say I'm town. I'm town! There.

It's also very late and I can't objectively process your arguments. Okay let's assume I lied. So what...why do I need to explain why a massclaim is good, EXACTLY why it's good, and also explain how the setup works, just to be in favour of a massclaim publically.

Something something I should be better than this when I wake up.

This probably counts as a DAMA but I'm off now so no time for fun questioning.

[Dylan32]

Also, another point:

MiX's plan is pretty ingenious in that mislynching OR correct lynching between Dylan and raptor doesn't connect back to him.  His setup completely built a bubble  around the two -- it in fact discourages looking at anyone else, which is the key to winning for scum at this point.  The second member is lost either way.  They are working together to actively protect the third.

If you want to choose which one is MiX's partner, look at who's actively trying to help.

You're last line is purely confirmation bias, because one has been largely inactive most of the game, and the other has been scumhunting the whole game, so looking at activity level to support your theory is only going to reveal whatever you set out to look for. Some of your points on MiX at least make some sense, but that last part definitely doesn't follow.  Like maybe the 2nd helping protect the 3rd looks like the 2nd letting the 3rd bus him until he flips scum so the 3rd gets that towncred. So that doesn't establish a link between either of us specifically and MiX like you think it does.

[Dylan32]

Your*... ugh...

[Dylan32]

Reading yuma from EoD1 through D2.

vote: joseph

L-2 vote. A good spot to bus.

4 posts in a row:

Intent to hammer

ok

ok

I was giving it 15/20 min to see if Joseph was around to claim or say something

would it matter at this point?

D2
Read from the start of the day at #335 to #349, and literally every part of every interaction in those 15 posts absolutely screams scum team Joseph, raptor, and yuma. I didn't even remember this interaction until I just read it, but I'm sure of it and probably won't vote anywhere else.

Joseph doesn't seem likely to be scum. We are using him to figure out Raptor? Raptor is clearly town.

This is a false road to go down.

I want to hold off on talking until Raptor gets here, but I think we are making false assumptions based off false assumptions here. So maybe wait for the players that don't log on quite as much?

If I were mafia the lynches I would be pushing for and supporting would be joseph and raptor. They are the lynches that have the least resistant. They could still be scum if they are, but that is dice rolling, not evidence based. I won't be voting for either today.

D3

Cool. I know I didn't contribute at all, but cool. I am glad Dylan had the result he did cause I probably would have fought all day against the Raptor lynch and probably the Joseph lynch by association. I dont know if I would have been successful in that, but possibly. So good job to Dylan there.

I think actual wagon analysis is still necessary. Raptor certainly looks worse, but I still dont see scum doing what he did. I was about to write more, but did we ever hear from raptor yesterday? I'll wait to say anymore then.

Here he believes my result unflinchingly.

Datswan is town. Dylan likely mafia. vote: mix

Now in the immediate aftermath of the counterclaim he immediately flips to not believing me.  The only way I can see someone flipping that hard is as scum to support their partner.

Raptor is scum. Yuma is scum.

[Dylan32]

Also, I don't want anyone to miss it, because the biggest part of the case is the first sentence under the D2 heading. Go read the start of D2.

[yuma]

That would be horrible mafia play in every respect. L-2 is the worst place to bus a partner on day1 that early. Abandoning another wagon that had traction to go to my partner? Pah.

Going that hard on protecting partners before everyone had posted. Also a bad move.

Switching hard to protect a player that if flipped scum would directly implicate me.

I am not defending myself from bad play. Just not intentionally playing bad, which I would have as mafia in your scenario. Just possibly bad accidental play as town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 3.2

XXraptorslayer96 (3): scolapasta, MiX, Dylan32
MiX (2): ashersky, yuma
Dylan32 (2): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96

Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Three ends at 8 pm forum time April 28th.

[Swowl]

If I flip town nothing will happen. There are no reads to be obtained with my flip. Unless you want heat on yourself and yuma, which you already have for simply voting me instead of the conflict. That's not pro-you, nor pro-town.

Just because you made a plan it doesn't mean it's better for town than scum's plan.

I'm done defending myself obviously nothing will change by me talking. I'm voting for scum, I suggest you all vote for scum.

For my amusement, can you make an organized list of every lie I said? Should also get people voting for me, that's what you want, right.

At this point, you sound like caught scum.

I don't need to list your lies -- the fact that you lied, and admit to that, is all that should matter.

Homie you wanna talk about lies? Like 2 posts before this you say "there is a 50-50 on Dylan vs Raptor but it is 100% on MiX". By WAYYYYY more coherent logic THAT is a lie.

There is in every way shape and form a better chance of finding skum in lynching one of Dylan/Raptor today. BEST... ABSOLUTE BEST case scenario following your logic we lynch mix... he is actually frikin mafia... then we have to choose between Raptor/Dylan because they sure as hell ain't gonna kill one or other.

We can just as easily take the coin flip today. If wrong lynch the other. Then lynch MiX (in your mind), as we could Lynch miX then take a coin flip. The only difference is that by lynching MiX first... even if he is skum, it gives skum more night ops to shoot at the UB.

[ashersky]

If I flip town nothing will happen. There are no reads to be obtained with my flip. Unless you want heat on yourself and yuma, which you already have for simply voting me instead of the conflict. That's not pro-you, nor pro-town.

Just because you made a plan it doesn't mean it's better for town than scum's plan.

I'm done defending myself obviously nothing will change by me talking. I'm voting for scum, I suggest you all vote for scum.

For my amusement, can you make an organized list of every lie I said? Should also get people voting for me, that's what you want, right.

At this point, you sound like caught scum.

I don't need to list your lies -- the fact that you lied, and admit to that, is all that should matter.

Homie you wanna talk about lies? Like 2 posts before this you say "there is a 50-50 on Dylan vs Raptor but it is 100% on MiX". By WAYYYYY more coherent logic THAT is a lie.

There is in every way shape and form a better chance of finding skum in lynching one of Dylan/Raptor today. BEST... ABSOLUTE BEST case scenario following your logic we lynch mix... he is actually frikin mafia... then we have to choose between Raptor/Dylan because they sure as hell ain't gonna kill one or other.

We can just as easily take the coin flip today. If wrong lynch the other. Then lynch MiX (in your mind), as we could Lynch miX then take a coin flip. The only difference is that by lynching MiX first... even if he is skum, it gives skum more night ops to shoot at the UB.

I disagree with a lot of your post, but the bolded line is worth discussion.

Since you are making that point, you are inherently stating you believe raptor and not Dylan, btw.  Did you mean to do that?  If I am wrong about MiX, as you think could be possible (I'm not), that would be worthy of scumslip territory (except it's MiX, so you are safe).  Of course, me being wrong is helpful to scum and keeping MiX around to be my focus helps scum, which is what you seem to be suggesting we do by not lynching him.

[Swowl]

Please explain to me what you disagree with.

For the bold... more importantly I am dumb and it doesn't matter. If we lynch Mix today and he is skum then town has a GTD win so the UB thing doesn't matter at all.

And more obviously I was talking in terms of "if" not for sure. Assuredly if we lynch mix (or anyone that is not dylan/Raptor) skum is not going to kill dylan or raptor. So if a shot exists, it gives skum another shot at ridding UB prior to ridding the role. But you knew that.

Also also... Here is some math before you try to call me on weak skum slips or whatever:

We have 1 lynched skum
1 of Dylan and Raptor is skum
you are "100% on Mix being skum"

Explain how I slipped if those things are true.

[yuma]

vote: Dylan, but I am pretty much going with ashersky's POV on MiX. I could tell the moment that he posted that he saw something and from that moment I felt it was worth hearing. I still think it is. Call it sheeping. That is fine. But I do see DatSwan's point of view as well and think I will actually get to influence who gets voted today (see MiX!!!).

[ashersky]

Please explain to me what you disagree with.

For the bold... more importantly I am dumb and it doesn't matter. If we lynch Mix today and he is skum then town has a GTD win so the UB thing doesn't matter at all.

And more obviously I was talking in terms of "if" not for sure. Assuredly if we lynch mix (or anyone that is not dylan/Raptor) skum is not going to kill dylan or raptor. So if a shot exists, it gives skum another shot at ridding UB prior to ridding the role. But you knew that.

Also also... Here is some math before you try to call me on weak skum slips or whatever:

We have 1 lynched skum
1 of Dylan and Raptor is skum
you are "100% on Mix being skum"

Explain how I slipped if those things are true.

Not sure how math comes into the discussion.

The slip would be you knowing which of the two is lying (between D and R).  Because assuredly whomever is the partner is aware.  That partner would be called "scum" in many circles, and accidentally posting information they know only because they are scum is often called a "slip" in these types of games.  Hence the term "scumslip" being used to describe a situation in which a player who is scum accidentally slips information into their post.

You have explained this away by calling yourself dumb, which we both know is untrue.  However, as I am 100% convinced that MiX is the partner of whichever claimant is lying, it's not material to the game (at this time).  If I am proven wrong, for example by a MiX flip, then I would want to come back to this conversation.  Since I assume I will be dead before that happens, I have pointed it out for others to use later, were that to come to pass.

As for what I disagree with, I don't think I am lying when I state my opinion that I am 100% sure MiX is scum.  If you read my posting as straight fact and not my opinion, that's on you.  As such, I disagree with the second statement that says there is a better chance of finding scum in the D/R pool today.  I guess I can change my post to say that I agree the best case scenario is that we lynch MiX today if you can change your statement to add a "because" after the ellipses and before "he is actually" in your statement.  I also disagree that one of R/D won't die 100%, as there are conceivable scenarios where scum shoot raptor to avoid the doc shot.

Does that help?

[ashersky]

Vote Count 3.2

XXraptorslayer96 (3): scolapasta, MiX, Dylan32
MiX (2): ashersky, MiX
Dylan32 (2): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96

Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Three ends at 8 pm forum time April 28th.

MiX self-voting seems odd.  I'm assuming that is yuma, who ha since moved.

[Swowl]

Please explain to me what you disagree with.

For the bold... more importantly I am dumb and it doesn't matter. If we lynch Mix today and he is skum then town has a GTD win so the UB thing doesn't matter at all.

And more obviously I was talking in terms of "if" not for sure. Assuredly if we lynch mix (or anyone that is not dylan/Raptor) skum is not going to kill dylan or raptor. So if a shot exists, it gives skum another shot at ridding UB prior to ridding the role. But you knew that.

Also also... Here is some math before you try to call me on weak skum slips or whatever:

We have 1 lynched skum
1 of Dylan and Raptor is skum
you are "100% on Mix being skum"

Explain how I slipped if those things are true.

Not sure how math comes into the discussion.

The slip would be you knowing which of the two is lying (between D and R).  Because assuredly whomever is the partner is aware.  That partner would be called "scum" in many circles, and accidentally posting information they know only because they are scum is often called a "slip" in these types of games.  Hence the term "scumslip" being used to describe a situation in which a player who is scum accidentally slips information into their post.

You have explained this away by calling yourself dumb, which we both know is untrue.  However, as I am 100% convinced that MiX is the partner of whichever claimant is lying, it's not material to the game (at this time).  If I am proven wrong, for example by a MiX flip, then I would want to come back to this conversation.  Since I assume I will be dead before that happens, I have pointed it out for others to use later, were that to come to pass.

As for what I disagree with, I don't think I am lying when I state my opinion that I am 100% sure MiX is scum.  If you read my posting as straight fact and not my opinion, that's on you.  As such, I disagree with the second statement that says there is a better chance of finding scum in the D/R pool today.  I guess I can change my post to say that I agree the best case scenario is that we lynch MiX today if you can change your statement to add a "because" after the ellipses and before "he is actually" in your statement.  I also disagree that one of R/D won't die 100%, as there are conceivable scenarios where scum shoot raptor to avoid the doc shot.

Does that help?

so similiar to mix you lied when you said it is 100% that mix will flip skum?

[Swowl]

the dumb thing was slang for me saying I did not think about how many players were left in the game - which I think I explained but whatever.

Also I am having trouble working out what you mean by this part ... "because" after the ellipses and before "he is actually"

not like I don't get what you are saying, I just can't find the verbiage.

[ashersky]

Please explain to me what you disagree with.

For the bold... more importantly I am dumb and it doesn't matter. If we lynch Mix today and he is skum then town has a GTD win so the UB thing doesn't matter at all.

And more obviously I was talking in terms of "if" not for sure. Assuredly if we lynch mix (or anyone that is not dylan/Raptor) skum is not going to kill dylan or raptor. So if a shot exists, it gives skum another shot at ridding UB prior to ridding the role. But you knew that.

Also also... Here is some math before you try to call me on weak skum slips or whatever:

We have 1 lynched skum
1 of Dylan and Raptor is skum
you are "100% on Mix being skum"

Explain how I slipped if those things are true.

Not sure how math comes into the discussion.

The slip would be you knowing which of the two is lying (between D and R).  Because assuredly whomever is the partner is aware.  That partner would be called "scum" in many circles, and accidentally posting information they know only because they are scum is often called a "slip" in these types of games.  Hence the term "scumslip" being used to describe a situation in which a player who is scum accidentally slips information into their post.

You have explained this away by calling yourself dumb, which we both know is untrue.  However, as I am 100% convinced that MiX is the partner of whichever claimant is lying, it's not material to the game (at this time).  If I am proven wrong, for example by a MiX flip, then I would want to come back to this conversation.  Since I assume I will be dead before that happens, I have pointed it out for others to use later, were that to come to pass.

As for what I disagree with, I don't think I am lying when I state my opinion that I am 100% sure MiX is scum.  If you read my posting as straight fact and not my opinion, that's on you.  As such, I disagree with the second statement that says there is a better chance of finding scum in the D/R pool today.  I guess I can change my post to say that I agree the best case scenario is that we lynch MiX today if you can change your statement to add a "because" after the ellipses and before "he is actually" in your statement.  I also disagree that one of R/D won't die 100%, as there are conceivable scenarios where scum shoot raptor to avoid the doc shot.

Does that help?

so similiar to mix you lied when you said it is 100% that mix will flip skum?

I think maybe we have different languages going here?

1) For you to say that I am lying, you must be saying that MiX will not flip scum.  If that is the case, you know he's town, which makes you scum.
2) There is a difference between lying and being wrong.  While I am firm in my belief that I am right, even if I were to be wrong, I would not be lying.  If a person is 100% convinced the Earth is flat, when they make the statement "the Earth is 100% flat," I would not say that person is lying, only that that person is wrong.
3) I accused MiX of lying and he CONFIRMED that he was lying, going so far as to say that everyone lies as town on D3.  I'm not sure why you are inserting yourself into that portion of my case.

I think you might be saying that I am wrong, but using the word lying.  Is that what is happening? 

[Swowl]

Saving space. But yes ash - that is what i was inferring.
I was just trying to make a point on the fact of 100% - as if you are Town, you cannot be 100% sure.
But at this point the whole thing has derailed a bit.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Okay after doing some rereading and being impartial to myself.. honestly I would be voting me rn. So let me try and explain reasoning behind my actions.

End of D1, I just screwed up. I was just off on when end of day was. I hopped back on to find the tread closed. Its cool if you choose not to believe me but there was 5 others that could have hammered as well.

D2, Open and closed quickly, pushing through the Joseph lynch. I was not online at all during that day. Dylan conveniently shows up to claim cop results on his partner that is already good as dead.

Open D3, Mix pushes for mass-claim. I claim and piece together the fact that Dylan was lying. I felt comfortable claiming knowing there is a UB.     

I understand if you don't believe me, but I was just dealt a bad hand on this one.


I hypothesize that Dylan and Mix are scum. Dylan faked the results that could obviously come back positive, knowing that when Joseph flipped that he  would have to go heads up with any other PR. Effectively outing the PR as well as leaving Dylan with accurate results to fall on as proof. Mix explained the reasoning behind the mass claim in the post before my claim. Wouldn't town!Mix want to kinda keep the reasoning semi- secretive unless he was trying to instigate a heads up? Mix pushed the skum agenda to help try and IC Dylan. 

I am happy with my vote on Dylan but Mix is just as guilty at this point.

[MiX]

I hypothesize that Dylan and Mix are scum. Dylan faked the results that could obviously come back positive, knowing that when Joseph flipped that he  would have to go heads up with any other PR. Effectively outing the PR as well as leaving Dylan with accurate results to fall on as proof. Mix explained the reasoning behind the mass claim in the post before my claim. Wouldn't town!Mix want to kinda keep the reasoning semi- secretive unless he was trying to instigate a heads up? Mix pushed the skum agenda to help try and IC Dylan. 

I am happy with my vote on Dylan but Mix is just as guilty at this point.

No, I will never, ever wait for you to show up before giving clarifications to a newbie. Just look at your D2 to know why.

I will reread the whole ash argument and hopefully defend myself because apparently it's best to lynch a random than in the PR conflict.

[MiX]

1) As has by now been pointed out by others, MiX clearly lied about the possibilities regarding the setup.

The only lie I see, apart from not telling people my read on Dylan, is not saying that there could be 6T rolls. Where were the "other lies" pointed out? I can't see them.

You haven't even owned up to the setup lie, which is funny at this point.  I didn't even have to clarify it, as someone else caught it in the meantime.

Again, what setup lie, who caught it, quote it, if it's Swan then I probably missed it.

At this point, you sound like caught scum.

I don't need to list your lies -- the fact that you lied, and admit to that, is all that should matter.

Since you are "100%" correct on your scumread on me, of course I sound like scum to you. You wouldn't be able to look at my words any other way.

You definitely need to list my lies if you want to make a convincing case instead of just saying they exist.

When in the history of mafia do you tell the truth early D3? Of course I was baiting scum, why in the world would I say everything I think about the setup and the claims and my personal read on Dylan, etc etc.

It would be a better case if you listed them. I promise I won't argue against it, if that's what you're afraid of. I'll let it be there, unopposed.

These two lines...

So your argument is that everyone is lying?  Or that no one should tell the truth on D3?  What?  We share information that is useful to town.  We tell the truth to catch bad guys.  Like, the setup is a secret, so telling us what YOU think about the setup as town can only help us.  Scum already knows more about the setup from the first moment than we do, so what did you think you were hiding from them?  There's no town plan to catch scum on D3 after claims in a setup like this, no "baiting scum" to be done.  They most likely know everything.  That is just a flimsy cover for being caught with a scum plan.

The second line is more thinly veiled ATE.  It isn't based on anything other than gaining sympathy from other players.

My argument is that the parts which I omitted from my posts are towny to omit. I mean, whatever it is scum was planning, it's clearly worse than just playing out a normal day, so I'd like to think I helped in this.

The second line isn't "based" on anything, it's a request. You KNOW it will make me look better once you make it, because it's not grounded on anything, so suddenly it gains me sympathy.

even if he is skum, it gives skum more night ops to shoot at the UB.

I disagree with a lot of your post, but the bolded line is worth discussion.

Since you are making that point, you are inherently stating you believe raptor and not Dylan, btw.  Did you mean to do that?  If I am wrong about MiX, as you think could be possible (I'm not), that would be worthy of scumslip territory (except it's MiX, so you are safe).  Of course, me being wrong is helpful to scum and keeping MiX around to be my focus helps scum, which is what you seem to be suggesting we do by not lynching him.

Lynching me if I'm town is more helpful to scum than keeping me around for a later mislynch, and you know this. You're basically just shaming Swan for not wanting to lynch me, it doesn't follow logically from anything, you can reason that lynching me is pro-you, but it's not pro-town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote count 3.WCD

XXraptorslayer96 (3): scolapasta, MiX, Dylan32
MiX (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, yuma

Not Voting (2): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Three ends at 8 pm forum time April 28th.

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m intrigued with Ash’s argument and I appreciate all the work. I also appreciate both MiX and Ash making their arguments super clear in the exchange. I have a hard time following the setup stuff, but argument is a different story (I hitched my cart to DebatePro after all...)

I’m not quite ready to ready to see MiX go, so I’m going to vote for Dylan, but that will be L-1 and we have some hammer fans roaming about. Are we ready for that to happen now?

[scolapasta]

I’m intrigued with Ash’s argument and I appreciate all the work. I also appreciate both MiX and Ash making their arguments super clear in the exchange. I have a hard time following the setup stuff, but argument is a different story (I hitched my cart to DebatePro after all...)

I’m not quite ready to ready to see MiX go, so I’m going to vote for Dylan, but that will be L-1 and we have some hammer fans roaming about. Are we ready for that to happen now?

Why Dylan over Raptor? I'll explain shortly one reason I think it should be Raptor over Dylan.

[scolapasta]

Had to go back and find the right quote from DatSwan:

OK more importantly. There are 4 options here:

1) Lynch Dylan, they are Town: Skum kills at night. We lynch Raptor tomorrow. Down 2 town, 1 Skum. UB gets nothing.

2) Lynch Dylan, they are Skum: Skum *probably* kills Raptor at night. Down 1 Town, 1 Skum. UB gets Doc Shot or Raptor is alive the next day. (yes, I am coaching. If that happens - Raptor 100% should NOT shoot at night. It gives us a GTD. Even if they shoot off of him and hit UB Raptor is then alive).

3) Lynch Raptor, they are Town: Skum kills at night. We lynch Dylan. Down 2 town, 1 Skum. UB gets 1 shot Doc.

4) Lynch Raptor, they are Skum: Skum kills Dylan at night. Down 1 Town, 1 Skum. UB gets nothing.


So from a mathematical approach...
- #1 and #3 share the same outcome, except that by lynching Raptor (#3) we get the shot to UB.
- #2 and #4 share the same outcome, except that by lynching Dylan (#2) UB gets a shot if Raptor doesn't use it.

#1 we lynch town and UB gets nadda
#2 we lynch skum and UB gets doc shot
#3 we lynch town and UB gets doc shot
#4 we lynch skum and UB gets nadda

Another way of saying that is:
1: bad-bad
2: good-good
3: bad-good
4: good-bad

It seems to me that in the situation we're in we'd prefer to guarantee one good thing rather than risk having two bad things just to possibly get two good things.

i.e. 3 and 4 are significantly better than 1; 2 is not as significantly better than 3 or 4.

This is all assuming 50-50, of course. I think it's more likely Raptor than Dylan, but if you're on the fence, seems like Raptor is the better choice for today.

[MiX]

I don't think it's right to hedge in a game like this. Of course that if raptor's town we have an advantage, so regardless of who we lynch today, if raptor's town then we're better off than the alternative scenario (lynching the other person and Dylan being scum). I also think overall that raptor has been playing much scummier than Dylan.

I can also present an argument for why Dylan wouldn't claim PR if he was scum. He claimed first, at D2. At that point, scum has no idea who the other PR is, or if they exist. They don't know who they are going to counterclaim, they don't know if they end up shooting a PR and out themselves, and most importantly they don't know how favored they are against the town PR in terms of townyness. Imagine if Dylan had counterclaimed Swan, or me, or insert townier person than raptor here: do you think it would be a good 1v1? Dylan had some towncred, but it's not enough to carry him through a 1v1, and if he does end up winning it, it's at the cost of towncred that could've made him win LyLo.

Overall, the doubleclaim business doesn't make sense if Dylan is scum, and therefore it was Raptor's plan to do this. Thus Raptor is scum. It doesn't make much sense for Raptor either, but there's no risk: at worst you're lynched, and you're on a quick track to end up there anyway.

[Swowl]

So MiX - I actually think I agree with you here on the part about "makes no sense that Dylan claimed first". Which was a larger reason of what made me look into things. Oh yeah, there was one other thing too

[Swowl]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

Just seemed more valuable to hold on to at the time. I didn't know what else was out there, I had the mindset that with the UB it would hold value end game.

[Dylan32]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

Just seemed more valuable to hold on to at the time. I didn't know what else was out there, I had the mindset that with the UB it would hold value end game.

I fail to see what would be more valuable than protecting a claimed cop. Even in this answer, where you had the chance to say you didn't believe the cop claim, which was probably your best answer, you didn't. The only reason to not protect a cop is if you don't believe the cop is telling the truth or if you know there's another protective role that is going to target them.  "I didn't know what else was out there" even implies you believed shraeye was a cop and just thought there might be a better target later. You know who believed shraeye's claim and wouldn't protect them? Scum.

[Swowl]

ash - may I know if your auto hammer button is flipped on or off please?

[ashersky]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

Just seemed more valuable to hold on to at the time. I didn't know what else was out there, I had the mindset that with the UB it would hold value end game.

I fail to see what would be more valuable than protecting a claimed cop. Even in this answer, where you had the chance to say you didn't believe the cop claim, which was probably your best answer, you didn't. The only reason to not protect a cop is if you don't believe the cop is telling the truth or if you know there's another protective role that is going to target them.  "I didn't know what else was out there" even implies you believed shraeye was a cop and just thought there might be a better target later. You know who believed shraeye's claim and wouldn't protect them? Scum.

I think this post is very indicative of Dylan not having a town power role in this game.

[ashersky]

ash - may I know if your auto hammer button is flipped on or off please?

There is no off position.

[Dylan32]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

Just seemed more valuable to hold on to at the time. I didn't know what else was out there, I had the mindset that with the UB it would hold value end game.

I fail to see what would be more valuable than protecting a claimed cop. Even in this answer, where you had the chance to say you didn't believe the cop claim, which was probably your best answer, you didn't. The only reason to not protect a cop is if you don't believe the cop is telling the truth or if you know there's another protective role that is going to target them.  "I didn't know what else was out there" even implies you believed shraeye was a cop and just thought there might be a better target later. You know who believed shraeye's claim and wouldn't protect them? Scum.

I think this post is very indicative of Dylan not having a town power role in this game.

If you think I'm wrong in my analysis, it would be very indicative of I don't know how to play a power role in general.  Feels like every time I have a power role I end up in a 1v1 or catching shade because of how I claim or how I play it, so I guess I just have no idea what I'm doing and should just pray I draw VT every game.  Go ahead and lynch me first, I don't care and it would at least get you off the whole MiX and I are partners junk.  Maybe MiX is partners with raptor, but it feels like no matter what I say, you're set on it being me, which is ridiculous given how literally everything raptor has done has been anti-town and there are other people who had actively pushed us away from lynching scum!Joseph both on D1 and D2 prior to my claim.

[Dylan32]

My point in that post is that the reason he gave for not using the shot is scummy, because the only good reason I can think of for town to not use the shot is far from what he actually said. Therefore it's more likely that he's scum rather than telling the truth.

[ashersky]

1) As has by now been pointed out by others, MiX clearly lied about the possibilities regarding the setup.

The only lie I see, apart from not telling people my read on Dylan, is not saying that there could be 6T rolls. Where were the "other lies" pointed out? I can't see them.

Okay, I will break it down for you, although again, this has been pointed out by others.  Here is your post:

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

I quoted this and voted you for the scumslip and lie.  A few points to make:

#1 - You have tried to cover up your lie by saying you omitted the 6T roll.  It's even in the post I am replying to now.  That is yet another misdirect, as we can see CLEARLY that you said "6 Ts" in your post.  So, where did you omit the 6T roll?  That's a compound lie -- a lie building on a lie to cover up the first lie.  Lies abound!

#2 - The original misdirect/lie in your quote, which led to my clear read on you, was when you said "we have a maximum of 1 PR."  You want this to be true because the game environment has been molded to appear that way.  (I will note, I believe this to be the true game state at this time, which is days later than this post.)  However, your statement is blatantly untrue, and I believe it to be blatantly untrue on purpose.

#2a - Why is MiX's line untrue?  MiX predicates his statement on the goon flip.  A goon flip means 5T or 6T, as he says.  So he uses a truth to lull the audience, then slides in a seemingly true statement that is actually a lie, reinforced by immediately hitting the next line to support it ("since we have a 1-shot cop claim").  Note the use and placement of the word "since" in this series.  Meaning-wise, it is used as a "because" for the info that follows (there are no other PRs possible BECAUSE we have a 1-shot cop claim), but its positioning means that readers may also meld it with the previous line -- the lie.  That is, "we have a maximum of 1 PR BECAUSE we have a 1-shot cop claim," which just feels like evidence, even though it isn't.  This is a common language trick used in poetry and other writing (rap lyrics do it all the time). 

#3 - As I've explained, scum planned a fakeclaim.  Scum knows the claim is fake.  The fake claim is for one PR, even though that is not the only possibility in the setup.  In this case, scum ignored all possibilities to push the only possibilities that work with their lie.  That is the scumslip. 

[MiX]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

Just seemed more valuable to hold on to at the time. I didn't know what else was out there, I had the mindset that with the UB it would hold value end game.

I fail to see what would be more valuable than protecting a claimed cop. Even in this answer, where you had the chance to say you didn't believe the cop claim, which was probably your best answer, you didn't. The only reason to not protect a cop is if you don't believe the cop is telling the truth or if you know there's another protective role that is going to target them.  "I didn't know what else was out there" even implies you believed shraeye was a cop and just thought there might be a better target later. You know who believed shraeye's claim and wouldn't protect them? Scum.

I think this post is very indicative of Dylan not having a town power role in this game.

I agree that Dylan is wrong here, but it says nothing about him being town or scum. I was waiting for raptor to answer dylan's inquiries before saying anything, but clearly that's a losing battle.

I fail to see what would be more valuable than protecting a claimed cop. Even in this answer, where you had the chance to say you didn't believe the cop claim, which was probably your best answer, you didn't. The only reason to not protect a cop is if you don't believe the cop is telling the truth or if you know there's another protective role that is going to target them.  "I didn't know what else was out there" even implies you believed shraeye was a cop and just thought there might be a better target later. You know who believed shraeye's claim and wouldn't protect them? Scum.

To Dylan: If you're a 1-shot doctor, chances are there's a Doctor. In which case, you should wait for them to protect shraeye, not you. Also, 1-shot doc's not something you want to use early, so saving it for the UB is a viable, if not correct, strategy for town!raptor here.

I can, however, think of another point: if there's a lot more PRs, holding onto the shot becomes less valuable, because presumably the UB will get something else. But it also makes the 1-shot doc better later in the game, so it's moot.

PPE: ash things, ash things, things ash, lies = scum. Or something. Look I don't know, apparently inconsistency = scum, except as scum I would actually go back and read my posts instead of saying what I think I wrote there. When I said "Dylan is town" (which I believe was in my first post) I think I was trying to omit the fact that he can be scum fakeclaiming and it's 6Ts. I'll give that post a proper response.

[ashersky]

Raptor - Why did you not use your shot on the claimed cop Night 1?

Just seemed more valuable to hold on to at the time. I didn't know what else was out there, I had the mindset that with the UB it would hold value end game.

I fail to see what would be more valuable than protecting a claimed cop. Even in this answer, where you had the chance to say you didn't believe the cop claim, which was probably your best answer, you didn't. The only reason to not protect a cop is if you don't believe the cop is telling the truth or if you know there's another protective role that is going to target them.  "I didn't know what else was out there" even implies you believed shraeye was a cop and just thought there might be a better target later. You know who believed shraeye's claim and wouldn't protect them? Scum.

I think this post is very indicative of Dylan not having a town power role in this game.

If you think I'm wrong in my analysis, it would be very indicative of I don't know how to play a power role in general.  Feels like every time I have a power role I end up in a 1v1 or catching shade because of how I claim or how I play it, so I guess I just have no idea what I'm doing and should just pray I draw VT every game.  Go ahead and lynch me first, I don't care and it would at least get you off the whole MiX and I are partners junk.  Maybe MiX is partners with raptor, but it feels like no matter what I say, you're set on it being me, which is ridiculous given how literally everything raptor has done has been anti-town and there are other people who had actively pushed us away from lynching scum!Joseph both on D1 and D2 prior to my claim.

I didn't mean to make it sound like you don't know how to play.

Your post appears to indicate that you don't have a PR this game specifically.  In this game, town PRs have a literally back-up (almost always).  The imperative to protect any/all town roles is not as strong because of this, and the fact that any one PR doesn't know how many others are in the game also affects decisions.  In retrospect, not protecting shraeye was the 100% right decision, although no doctor could have known it at the time.  Instead, any PR could think it over, decide scum doesn't risk the WIFOM protection, and protects elsewhere or saves their shot.  There was also follow-the-cop discussion specifically during D1 (I think I read that when I first caught up), so that would also go into the decision-making of everyone.

As for you saying that I'm set on it being you -- I'm clearly building my case and pushing for another player.  I do think your claim fits better into what I caught about MiX, so yes, I favor you over raptor at this point.  But when we get to the DvR portion of this game, I'll put more thought into it, including how MiX's scum flip interacts with both of you.

[Dylan32]

1) As has by now been pointed out by others, MiX clearly lied about the possibilities regarding the setup.

The only lie I see, apart from not telling people my read on Dylan, is not saying that there could be 6T rolls. Where were the "other lies" pointed out? I can't see them.

Okay, I will break it down for you, although again, this has been pointed out by others.  Here is your post:

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

I quoted this and voted you for the scumslip and lie.  A few points to make:

#1 - You have tried to cover up your lie by saying you omitted the 6T roll.  It's even in the post I am replying to now.  That is yet another misdirect, as we can see CLEARLY that you said "6 Ts" in your post.  So, where did you omit the 6T roll?  That's a compound lie -- a lie building on a lie to cover up the first lie.  Lies abound!

#2 - The original misdirect/lie in your quote, which led to my clear read on you, was when you said "we have a maximum of 1 PR."  You want this to be true because the game environment has been molded to appear that way.  (I will note, I believe this to be the true game state at this time, which is days later than this post.)  However, your statement is blatantly untrue, and I believe it to be blatantly untrue on purpose.

#2a - Why is MiX's line untrue?  MiX predicates his statement on the goon flip.  A goon flip means 5T or 6T, as he says.  So he uses a truth to lull the audience, then slides in a seemingly true statement that is actually a lie, reinforced by immediately hitting the next line to support it ("since we have a 1-shot cop claim").  Note the use and placement of the word "since" in this series.  Meaning-wise, it is used as a "because" for the info that follows (there are no other PRs possible BECAUSE we have a 1-shot cop claim), but its positioning means that readers may also meld it with the previous line -- the lie.  That is, "we have a maximum of 1 PR BECAUSE we have a 1-shot cop claim," which just feels like evidence, even though it isn't.  This is a common language trick used in poetry and other writing (rap lyrics do it all the time). 

#3 - As I've explained, scum planned a fakeclaim.  Scum knows the claim is fake.  The fake claim is for one PR, even though that is not the only possibility in the setup.  In this case, scum ignored all possibilities to push the only possibilities that work with their lie.  That is the scumslip.

Ok, I've read the setup several times, and I guess I'm just not seeing what possibility would have more than max 1 PR with a goon flip, which seems to be the key to you calling MiX's statement a lie. What could have been true that would mean MiX was lying about the whole max 1 PR thing?

ppe 1

[WestCoastDidds]

Like I said, fan of argumentation. Ash is doing good work. It all hinges on MiX being super devious. Is MiX super devious? I think I’m more yes than no on that possibility.

Vote: MiX

PPE: 3?

[ashersky]

When I said "Dylan is town" (which I believe was in my first post) I think I was trying to omit the fact that he can be scum fakeclaiming and it's 6Ts. I'll give that post a proper response.

This is not what I was talking about, at all.  I literally just laid it all out for you.  And this is what you decide to do to respond? 

"Hey MiX, I think you are lying scum because of A."
"Hey, thanks for whatever you said, sorry B was confusing I think, let me go explain that."

Caught. Scum.

[ashersky]

A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR.

Can you explain this a little more? I know it has to do with the setup, but I'm not sure I completely get how that works.

Okay let's see if I can explain this, maybe I'm wrong lol who knows.

In the setup, the mod rolls 6 letters. So, in theory, we can have any combination of any letters. They can be seperated into T rolls and non-T rolls. T rolls affect scum directly, and essencially means they don't add a PR. Non-T rolls add PRs according to the table (I'm not linking the setup here, but if you want the link just say so). Since a Goon flipped, it means we are in the TTTTTT (6) or TTTTT (5), with a sixth letter. This means we have at most one letter. Now you can look at all the possible letters we can have, and you find out that, other than mason (that replaces UB with mason), we can only have 1 additional PR. Since Dylan claimed 1-shot cop, he's the only claimed PR, which means any other PRs (including the masons) would be counterclaiming him, and thus should claim immediately.

Please ask any questions you may have, this explanation is far from perfect.

So here's the link that explains it:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=10639.msg353797#msg353797

I'd read it before, but was confused. But I *think* I understand hwo you'r explaining it. You're saying that if of the six letters there had been 0-4 T's then there would not have been a generic mafia goon. Meaning it has to have been at least 5 or 6 T, meaning only one other letter could be none T, and in all those cases, there is only 1 PR.

Is that it?

Now I'll reread to see what you may have missed or misdirected.

5-6 Ts generates 2 mafia goons. And I have verified with mod that Godfather cannot be selected for "an additional PR". So If there was an additional PR, it could not be GF. Because everything between 0-4 Ts give 2 PRs to skum, and we have a Goon flip, we have a maximum of 1 pr. Or two I guess, if there are two masons... assuming I understand how that works correctly.

[Dylan32]

When I said "Dylan is town" (which I believe was in my first post) I think I was trying to omit the fact that he can be scum fakeclaiming and it's 6Ts. I'll give that post a proper response.

This is not what I was talking about, at all.  I literally just laid it all out for you.  And this is what you decide to do to respond? 

"Hey MiX, I think you are lying scum because of A."
"Hey, thanks for whatever you said, sorry B was confusing I think, let me go explain that."

Caught. Scum.

I guess I'm just confused about it. I'll read it again, but I promise I'm asking questions in good faith trying to understand what you're saying.

ppe 1

[ashersky]

Ok, I've read the setup several times, and I guess I'm just not seeing what possibility would have more than max 1 PR with a goon flip, which seems to be the key to you calling MiX's statement a lie. What could have been true that would mean MiX was lying about the whole max 1 PR thing?

ppe 1

I just posted DatSwan's catch from earlier in the day.

Also, reinforcing MiX's lie doesn't help your case.

[ashersky]

When I said "Dylan is town" (which I believe was in my first post) I think I was trying to omit the fact that he can be scum fakeclaiming and it's 6Ts. I'll give that post a proper response.

This is not what I was talking about, at all.  I literally just laid it all out for you.  And this is what you decide to do to respond? 

"Hey MiX, I think you are lying scum because of A."
"Hey, thanks for whatever you said, sorry B was confusing I think, let me go explain that."

Caught. Scum.

I guess I'm just confused about it. I'll read it again, but I promise I'm asking questions in good faith trying to understand what you're saying.

ppe 1

This was a reply to MiX, not you.  Sorry if there was confusion there.  I am saying MiX decided to discuss a completely different thing to the thing I pointed out was more scummy behavior.

[Dylan32]

Ok, I've read the setup several times, and I guess I'm just not seeing what possibility would have more than max 1 PR with a goon flip, which seems to be the key to you calling MiX's statement a lie. What could have been true that would mean MiX was lying about the whole max 1 PR thing?

ppe 1

I just posted DatSwan's catch from earlier in the day.

Also, reinforcing MiX's lie doesn't help your case.

But I don't think there could be 2 masons with a goon flip can there? A single M roll results in the UB converting, but "--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion." So does that mean they are converted to a mason and a mason is added and there's no UB?  That isn't how I have been reading it the last few days, which I think is why I was confused.

ppe 1

[Dylan32]

Well, I guess the UB being a mason on his own without a partner is nonsensical, so why that's how I was interpreting it is beyond me.

[MiX]

1) As has by now been pointed out by others, MiX clearly lied about the possibilities regarding the setup.

The only lie I see, apart from not telling people my read on Dylan, is not saying that there could be 6T rolls. Where were the "other lies" pointed out? I can't see them.

Okay, I will break it down for you, although again, this has been pointed out by others.  Here is your post:

I'll be the dumb one and ask for the logic of mass claiming but will already say I am all for it cause it is fun. But have a feeling a bunch of people will be up in arms without the math or talking about it forever. Sooo.... VT

It's very simple. A goon flip means we're in 5 or 6 Ts scenario, which means we have a maximum of 1 PR. Since we have a 1-shot cop claim, that's all the PRs possible, which means any more non-UB claims are a counterclaim, and we definitely want those. That's all. We hide the UB because we only need them to claim a day before LyLo, where scum can't claim it safely. When UB claims and etc is complicated, but the massclaim of non-UB isn't.

I quoted this and voted you for the scumslip and lie.  A few points to make:

#1 - You have tried to cover up your lie by saying you omitted the 6T roll.  It's even in the post I am replying to now.  That is yet another misdirect, as we can see CLEARLY that you said "6 Ts" in your post.  So, where did you omit the 6T roll?  That's a compound lie -- a lie building on a lie to cover up the first lie.  Lies abound!

#2 - The original misdirect/lie in your quote, which led to my clear read on you, was when you said "we have a maximum of 1 PR."  You want this to be true because the game environment has been molded to appear that way.  (I will note, I believe this to be the true game state at this time, which is days later than this post.)  However, your statement is blatantly untrue, and I believe it to be blatantly untrue on purpose.

#2a - Why is MiX's line untrue?  MiX predicates his statement on the goon flip.  A goon flip means 5T or 6T, as he says.  So he uses a truth to lull the audience, then slides in a seemingly true statement that is actually a lie, reinforced by immediately hitting the next line to support it ("since we have a 1-shot cop claim").  Note the use and placement of the word "since" in this series.  Meaning-wise, it is used as a "because" for the info that follows (there are no other PRs possible BECAUSE we have a 1-shot cop claim), but its positioning means that readers may also meld it with the previous line -- the lie.  That is, "we have a maximum of 1 PR BECAUSE we have a 1-shot cop claim," which just feels like evidence, even though it isn't.  This is a common language trick used in poetry and other writing (rap lyrics do it all the time). 

#3 - As I've explained, scum planned a fakeclaim.  Scum knows the claim is fake.  The fake claim is for one PR, even though that is not the only possibility in the setup.  In this case, scum ignored all possibilities to push the only possibilities that work with their lie.  That is the scumslip.

#1 - Why would I cover up a lie with a lie. On purpose. While knowing what I'm doing. You can say you caught me with my pants down, but you can't say you caught anything scummy, you just deconstructed my memory of events in a way for me to contradict myself. For which I say, well done, I didn't think that was possible.

#2 - But we DO "have a maximum of 1 PR". I wasn't thinking about the masons, because that's a total for 1 PR, as the UB is replaced by a mason. Not to mention a mason claim solves this day so there's no need to mention it. Is there any other scenario where we don't have a maximum of 1 PR, prior to the massclaim?

#2a - You never explained why that line is untrue. You just explained how I wrote the paragraph. Which, uh, yeah I guess I did say "since" after a conclusion. It was not my intent to link those two together backwards, only forwards. Again, why is it not true?

#3 - If scum scumslipped, then yes, it was by knowing that there was a fakeclaim before raptor claimed. I did no such thing? I assumed the only thing that could happen after a massclaim, which is either nothing happens, or something happens. Acknowledging the one thing that can happen due to the massclaim isn't scummy.

PPE I'm getting tired of this. I still don't know how I lied about the setup, and I still don't know why that makes me scum. Just because I'm the only one that could've scumslipped about this (let's assume that for a bit since I didn't see any other scumslip) doesn't mean I did.

Also, Didds...really. Really. I thought better of you...

[MiX]

Ok, I've read the setup several times, and I guess I'm just not seeing what possibility would have more than max 1 PR with a goon flip, which seems to be the key to you calling MiX's statement a lie. What could have been true that would mean MiX was lying about the whole max 1 PR thing?

ppe 1

I just posted DatSwan's catch from earlier in the day.

Also, reinforcing MiX's lie doesn't help your case.

But I don't think there could be 2 masons with a goon flip can there? A single M roll results in the UB converting, but "--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion." So does that mean they are converted to a mason and a mason is added and there's no UB?  That isn't how I have been reading it the last few days, which I think is why I was confused.

ppe 1

No, the M roll adds a mason, AND converts UB into mason, so there's 2 masons.

[Dylan32]

Ok, I've read the setup several times, and I guess I'm just not seeing what possibility would have more than max 1 PR with a goon flip, which seems to be the key to you calling MiX's statement a lie. What could have been true that would mean MiX was lying about the whole max 1 PR thing?

ppe 1

I just posted DatSwan's catch from earlier in the day.

Also, reinforcing MiX's lie doesn't help your case.

But I don't think there could be 2 masons with a goon flip can there? A single M roll results in the UB converting, but "--If the Universal Backup converts to a Mason due to a single M roll, that player will not be informed of the conversion." So does that mean they are converted to a mason and a mason is added and there's no UB?  That isn't how I have been reading it the last few days, which I think is why I was confused.

ppe 1

No, the M roll adds a mason, AND converts UB into mason, so there's 2 masons.

Yeah got there eventually...

[MiX]

When I said "Dylan is town" (which I believe was in my first post) I think I was trying to omit the fact that he can be scum fakeclaiming and it's 6Ts. I'll give that post a proper response.

This is not what I was talking about, at all.  I literally just laid it all out for you.  And this is what you decide to do to respond? 

"Hey MiX, I think you are lying scum because of A."
"Hey, thanks for whatever you said, sorry B was confusing I think, let me go explain that."

Caught. Scum.

I was saying why I said that I omitted the 6T roll: in my mind I had done that, and I told you where.

[MiX]

When I said "Dylan is town" (which I believe was in my first post) I think I was trying to omit the fact that he can be scum fakeclaiming and it's 6Ts. I'll give that post a proper response.

This is not what I was talking about, at all.  I literally just laid it all out for you.  And this is what you decide to do to respond? 

"Hey MiX, I think you are lying scum because of A."
"Hey, thanks for whatever you said, sorry B was confusing I think, let me go explain that."

Caught. Scum.

I guess I'm just confused about it. I'll read it again, but I promise I'm asking questions in good faith trying to understand what you're saying.

ppe 1

This was a reply to MiX, not you.  Sorry if there was confusion there.  I am saying MiX decided to discuss a completely different thing to the thing I pointed out was more scummy behavior.

What isn't scummy behavior for me. No seriously, tell me. You wouldn't be able to, I'm sure. This is how I am: eternally scummy, even when I try to say the truth over and over.

I stand by everything I said, including that I omitted the 6T roll, including every admission of whatever ash accused me of that I said in the past. If it makes me scum, then you're wrong, that's all I need, and that's all town needs.

I don't have the mental fortitude to withstand an ash assault head-on. Thankfully there's nothing else to do since I'm already voting for scum.

[Dylan32]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

[MiX]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

You have to admit that it's possible for town to think like raptor, right? So it doesn't make him scum.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

Sorry I don't play to your 'standards'. I explained why I thought it was the right reason, your scum!opinion doesn't really matter to me tbh.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

[MiX]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

Uhuh. Explain why you like the case on me. Details, please. Maybe then you're caught after I flip.

[Dylan32]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

You have to admit that it's possible for town to think like raptor, right? So it doesn't make him scum.

Honestly, in the scenario we had in D1, I just don't see town not protecting the cop unless you didn't believe the claim. Raptor has given no indication that he didn't believe it, even though he's had several chances, and in fact his comments suggest he did believe it, and so no, I don't believe town would have held the shot there at all. In different situations and other games, sure, but here, I wouldn't buy it even if I wasn't the one who was 1v1 with him.

[Dylan32]

Also, you have to consider that in this game, scum absolutely believed the claim enough to warrant shooting them N1. Combine that with the evidence that Raptor believed the claim, and it makes him marginally more likely to be scum, even ignoring the PR claiming stuff. Of course town could have believed the claim too, so I don't pretend that's conclusive, but it's another detail that lines up well with scum!raptor.

[MiX]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

You have to admit that it's possible for town to think like raptor, right? So it doesn't make him scum.

Honestly, in the scenario we had in D1, I just don't see town not protecting the cop unless you didn't believe the claim. Raptor has given no indication that he didn't believe it, even though he's had several chances, and in fact his comments suggest he did believe it, and so no, I don't believe town would have held the shot there at all. In different situations and other games, sure, but here, I wouldn't buy it even if I wasn't the one who was 1v1 with him.

Hmm, people can do strange things...I wouldn't had doctored shraeye, for example. You have to accept that others don't follow the same logic as you, and it doesn't inherently make them scummy. Of course this is a bad example, since you know he's scum, but...it can happen.

Look at me and ash. He's hellbent that I wouldn't do what I did as town. Yet I did. He would never do what I did as town, in his mind what happened is impossible for town to do, yet I did it. And I've played a bunch of games with ash and he's modded some more, he knows me. What you believe people will do in certain situations is not what they will 100% do in those situations.

Also, you have to consider that in this game, scum absolutely believed the claim enough to warrant shooting them N1. Combine that with the evidence that Raptor believed the claim, and it makes him marginally more likely to be scum, even ignoring the PR claiming stuff. Of course town could have believed the claim too, so I don't pretend that's conclusive, but it's another detail that lines up well with scum!raptor.

Weak. There's better arguments for his scummyness. Whoever didn't believe shraeye is scum, because scum knows there couldn't be any full Cop, is an argument that I could make as well and it would be just as bad. Also scum would say they didn't fully believe shraeye because of what you just said, so WIFOM.

Actually, what did YOU think of shraeye throughout this game?

[Swowl]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

lol k

Vote: Raptor


you're up slugger

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

You have to admit that it's possible for town to think like raptor, right? So it doesn't make him scum.

Honestly, in the scenario we had in D1, I just don't see town not protecting the cop unless you didn't believe the claim. Raptor has given no indication that he didn't believe it, even though he's had several chances, and in fact his comments suggest he did believe it, and so no, I don't believe town would have held the shot there at all. In different situations and other games, sure, but here, I wouldn't buy it even if I wasn't the one who was 1v1 with him.

I was honestly flustered with myself for missing the deadline, and I had already decided earlier in the day that my shot was better off to hold on to for end game, I gave it a brief thought then dismissed it. again, I don't expect you to agree with me. 

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

lol k

Vote: Raptor


you're up slugger

LOL Is this me L-1?  annoying.

swan - do you find me scummy or just a better lynch for town?

[MiX]

That's L-1

Do your magic ash. I'm a bit tired of this day, but if it got raptor lynched, then it was worth it.

[Dylan32]

Also, to Ash's questioning my reply to raptor's claimed motivations, the fact that the UB might convert to a mason is even more reason not to hold onto the shot. Sure there probably is a UB most of the time, but I just think you're better off using it.  Until people claim, the odds are that there's probably a better PR out there for the UB to pick up than your 1-shot power, so using it and claiming it early to reduce the odds scum NKs you would boost the odds the UB picks up a better PR than yours, so I don't think raptor's idea of saving it for the UB is good even if it were possible that he was town.

ppe 2

You have to admit that it's possible for town to think like raptor, right? So it doesn't make him scum.

Honestly, in the scenario we had in D1, I just don't see town not protecting the cop unless you didn't believe the claim. Raptor has given no indication that he didn't believe it, even though he's had several chances, and in fact his comments suggest he did believe it, and so no, I don't believe town would have held the shot there at all. In different situations and other games, sure, but here, I wouldn't buy it even if I wasn't the one who was 1v1 with him.

Hmm, people can do strange things...I wouldn't had doctored shraeye, for example. You have to accept that others don't follow the same logic as you, and it doesn't inherently make them scummy. Of course this is a bad example, since you know he's scum, but...it can happen.

Look at me and ash. He's hellbent that I wouldn't do what I did as town. Yet I did. He would never do what I did as town, in his mind what happened is impossible for town to do, yet I did it. And I've played a bunch of games with ash and he's modded some more, he knows me. What you believe people will do in certain situations is not what they will 100% do in those situations.

Also, you have to consider that in this game, scum absolutely believed the claim enough to warrant shooting them N1. Combine that with the evidence that Raptor believed the claim, and it makes him marginally more likely to be scum, even ignoring the PR claiming stuff. Of course town could have believed the claim too, so I don't pretend that's conclusive, but it's another detail that lines up well with scum!raptor.

Weak. There's better arguments for his scummyness. Whoever didn't believe shraeye is scum, because scum knows there couldn't be any full Cop, is an argument that I could make as well and it would be just as bad. Also scum would say they didn't fully believe shraeye because of what you just said, so WIFOM.

Actually, what did YOU think of shraeye throughout this game?

Assuming throughout the game you mean D1 since that's all they had, I was pretty null. Before the flip, I think I liked the play more than I disliked it, and with hindsight obviously I loved it.  But with my role I thought it was statistically more likely to be a lie than true, but definitely thought it was possible. Without going back and reading, I don't remember much else of what they said.

ppe 4

[Swowl]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

lol k

Vote: Raptor


you shouldn't want to or care about lynching mix at all. if you are town the only person ever. ever. that you should be ok with gunning after today is Dylan.
Opening doors to other players is an out.

you're up slugger

LOL Is this me L-1?  annoying.

swan - do you find me scummy or just a better lynch for town?

[Swowl]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

lol k

Vote: Raptor


you're up slugger

LOL Is this me L-1?  annoying.

swan - do you find me scummy or just a better lynch for town?

FIXED.

you shouldn't want to or care about lynching mix at all. if you are town the only person ever. ever. that you should be ok with gunning after today is Dylan.
Opening doors to other players is an out.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

That's L-1

Do your magic ash. I'm a bit tired of this day, but if it got raptor lynched, then it was worth it.

Don't tell people how to live their life, its bad manners.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I like the case on Mix, I don't mind voting there obvi. but would still rather lynch Dylan because I know that he is 100% lying.

lol k

Vote: Raptor

you're up slugger

LOL Is this me L-1?  annoying.

swan - do you find me scummy or just a better lynch for town?

FIXED.

you shouldn't want to or care about lynching mix at all. if you are town the only person ever. ever. that you should be ok with gunning after today is Dylan.
Opening doors to other players is an out.

Dylan and Mix are one in the same at this point to me. Do me a favor and lynch Mix after Dylan flips tomorrow.

[Swowl]

That's L-1

Do your magic ash. I'm a bit tired of this day, but if it got raptor lynched, then it was worth it.

Don't tell people how to live their life, its bad manners.

i love you so much sometimes lol. but you're still skum.

[Swowl]

That's L-1

Do your magic ash. I'm a bit tired of this day, but if it got raptor lynched, then it was worth it.

also thank you for this. I assumed my back and forth with Ash made it clear, but yes this is L-1.

[MiX]

Dylan and Mix are one in the same at this point to me. Do me a favor and lynch Mix after Dylan flips tomorrow.

I guess you can flip town. But how am I scum, again? I forgot where you said why you believe I was scum, which I asked for a clarification a bit back.

[Dylan32]

I'm going offline and don't know what's going to happen re: hammer or nah, so I just want to make a note since the 3rd scum would have no reason to keep me alive once raptor goes down.

When I presented a case on yuma, his response was literally just that would be way to scummy for me to have actually done that.  If you had successfully pushed a lynch away from Joseph and let the heat die down on raptor as a result, it would have been great play, you just ran into a cop result that got the Joseph hammered pretty quickly and set the other up for some high heat (who then got himself into a 1v1). I'm not a believer in too-scummy-to-be-scum.

[Xxraptorslayer96]

I give up, town will still win this one, bummed that I won't be around for it to happen. cheers

PPE 4

[Dylan32]

I give up, town will still win this one, bummed that I won't be around for it to happen. cheers

PPE 4

Nice AtE. Lynching you will get town closer to winning, so yeah, cheers!

[MiX]

I'm going offline and don't know what's going to happen re: hammer or nah, so I just want to make a note since the 3rd scum would have no reason to keep me alive once raptor goes down.

When I presented a case on yuma, his response was literally just that would be way to scummy for me to have actually done that.  If you had successfully pushed a lynch away from Joseph and let the heat die down on raptor as a result, it would have been great play, you just ran into a cop result that got the Joseph hammered pretty quickly and set the other up for some high heat (who then got himself into a 1v1). I'm not a believer in too-scummy-to-be-scum.

Cya Dylan! Good night everyone else! Can't wait to wake up to the flip.

PPE 2: I can't stress how amusing I find these dying messages. From both of you.

[WestCoastDidds]

The only thing I love more than arguments are appeals to emotion.

xoxoxo

Let’s get going....

Vote: raptor

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Dylan and Mix are one in the same at this point to me. Do me a favor and lynch Mix after Dylan flips tomorrow.

I guess you can flip town. But how am I scum, again? I forgot where you said why you believe I was scum, which I asked for a clarification a bit back.

I think that you are scum because Dylans plan would not have come together the way that it did without you. TBH i also just naturally always scum read you, and you have done nothing to prove to me that you are town other than attack me. Also I did explain why I thought that you were Dylans partner in #556.

PPE 3

[Xxraptorslayer96]

Raptor out xoxo

[Swowl]

lynch ash next if we are right.

[WestCoastDidds]

That's L-1

Do your magic ash. I'm a bit tired of this day, but if it got raptor lynched, then it was worth it.

Don't tell people how to live their life, its bad manners.

lynch ash next if we are right.

Love it!

[yuma]

Dylan had just convinced me to vote: raptor but I'll do it anyway just to be sure.

[yuma]

But ash isn't scum.

[scolapasta]

So this is only my 2nd game on here, but Didds seems to be posting a lot less than in the last game. And/or her posts are more terse. Any particular reason for that?

[scolapasta]

If raptor scum, my shortlist is Ash, Mix, Didds, yuma (is that still short?) - not necessarily that order.

DatSwan was on list but you've convinced me finally.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Xxraptorslayer96 has been lynched! He was a Mafia Godfather!

Final Vote Count

XXraptorslayer96 (5): scolapasta, MiX, Dylan32, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): ashersky
Dylan32 (3): LaLight, Xxraptorslayer96, yuma

With 9 alive it took 5 to lynch. Night Three begins now and ends at 12 an forum time April 25th.

[A Drowned Kernel]

THREAD LOCKED

[A Drowned Kernel]

Day Four Start

By request, Day Four is beginning early. No one was killed in the night!

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (8): MiX, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, yuma, ashersky, LaLight, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Four begins now and ends at 5 pm forum time May 2nd.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[MiX]

Vote: No lynch

Why did no one die?

[Swowl]

so. that's weird.

I have like just now re-read the set up yet again to make sure. And yeah, possible set ups were:
- Goon Goon GF with UB and 1 PR
- Goon Goon GF with no UB (M role) and 2 Masons.

There are some variants on Bulletproof and all that but that is where it has to be.

And then here is the thing.... like no one CC'd Dylan and Raptor yesterday. So there is a world I could potentially see VT!Dylan, given the time of the claim and how that all went down, faking that claim bc nk draw and yadda yadda.... but fuck that is way out there with no CC yesterday. No offense Dylan, not that you would not be capable of it, just that for anyone that would be a crazy af play.
So other than that, there are some other concepts I am not gonna bring up regarding dylan in which they are not 1 shot cop, but still town. Saving that for later. No point in stating it now.

But pretty much, if dylan is telling the truth about everything... then everything checks out and the only explaination for why there is no NK is because skum chose for there to be no NK.

Why would they do that?

Real Today - We have 8 alive. 1Skum-7Town
Today If they Killed - We have 7 alive. 1Skum-6Town

Real Tomorrow with Town lynch today and Town Death at night - 6 alive. 1Skum-5Town.
Real Tomorrow with No lynch today and Town Death at night - 7 alive. 1Skum-6Town.
***Tomorrow if they had killed last night, we lynch today, and they kill at night - 5 Alive. 1Skum-4Town.

*** This is the confusing thing. That is like... clearly the best play. I mean they can set up some gambit and try to like I guess paint Dylan up or something by not shooting yeah? But why. If they kill MIC!Dylan, go just 1 day without getting lynched, then kill again... they bring it to 1v4. Given how shitty of a game it is going for skum at this point, getting to win or go home is not like... bad at all.

The method of leaving people alive creates more influence from other players, which I guess skum would think they can use to their advantage or something, but to like what... if dylan is town then it just puts them in the same spot as they were before. So it could be a gambit to try to get us to lynch dylan. They also could of done this by killing like [Swan,Didds,MiX]... people that were on board for skum at all points.. and still would of gotten the NK.

So idk. It doesn't really make sense to me.

Glancing at the set up post, there doesn't seem to be the standard rule about nolynch/nokill 3 days in a row, but I don't see how that can be manipulated in skum's favor.
Maybe they just forgot?

IDK I am a little lost here.

MiX - have you already mathed out the No lynch thing? does that actually work for us somehow? I mean if they did not kill last night and we change nothing I do not see why they would alter the game plan tonight right?

[Swowl]

no one has like.... any secret claims or anything right?

[Swowl]

Also, I have thought about it a bit and I think that it is essentially impossible for Dylan to be skum here. just FWIW

[Swowl]

ash/yuma you got anything to add?

[MiX]

no one has like.... any secret claims or anything right?

If there is we win lol.

Scum wants to not kill, right? So if we no lynch they're forced to kill. So we no lynch.

Also my theory is they shot themselves with the bulletproof, cause that's super funny.

Also, I have thought about it a bit and I think that it is essentially impossible for Dylan to be skum here. just FWIW

Right and wrong at the same time.

[Swowl]

no one has like.... any secret claims or anything right?

If there is we win lol.

Scum wants to not kill, right? So if we no lynch they're forced to kill. So we no lynch.

Also my theory is they shot themselves with the bulletproof, cause that's super funny.

Also, I have thought about it a bit and I think that it is essentially impossible for Dylan to be skum here. just FWIW

Right and wrong at the same time.

agreed on the last part. just saying.

[Swowl]

MOD QUESTION - Does anything happen if we go the 3 days with no death in this game?

[Swowl]

basis behind my question for those that care - if the game never ends, we might as well lynch today.

[MiX]

basis behind my question for those that care - if the game never ends, we might as well lynch today.

I would rather force scum to kill so the game ends than lynch now without a kill. I'm not giving scum what they want, are you?

[WestCoastDidds]

They couldn’t have forgotten, right? Not with the early start. So, it was either no shot, or something happened.

If someone made something happen, they can come tell us, yeah? No reason to wait.

If scum decided not to shoot, I’m with MiX. Let’s lynch someone. Even if we screw up, it narrows the pool and creates more possibilities for cracks up show.

Swan, your last comment/command before the night started was to lynch Ash next. You still feeling it?

[MiX]

They couldn’t have forgotten, right? Not with the early start. So, it was either no shot, or something happened.

If someone made something happen, they can come tell us, yeah? No reason to wait.

If scum decided not to shoot, I’m with MiX. Let’s lynch someone. Even if we screw up, it narrows the pool and creates more possibilities for cracks up show.

Swan, your last comment/command before the night started was to lynch Ash next. You still feeling it?

No, my suggestion is not lynching.

[WestCoastDidds]

So this is only my 2nd game on here, but Didds seems to be posting a lot less than in the last game. And/or her posts are more terse. Any particular reason for that?

Good observation. I’m in a lot of game’s right now, though, and set up y’all is not my jam (it looks like my cat stepped on the keyboard TTTTMGFDYH) so I just chill until we turn back to things I can fruitfully participate in.

[WestCoastDidds]

They couldn’t have forgotten, right? Not with the early start. So, it was either no shot, or something happened.

If someone made something happen, they can come tell us, yeah? No reason to wait.

If scum decided not to shoot, I’m with Swan. Let’s lynch someone. Even if we screw up, it narrows the pool and creates more possibilities for cracks up show.

Swan, your last comment/command before the night started was to lynch Ash next. You still feeling it?

No, my suggestion is not lynching.

Sorry, FTFMe

[WestCoastDidds]

Hey, here is some good news! A new, tiny shraerae arrived today!

[Swowl]

congratz little Shraeye!!!

[Swowl]

also obvious note:

UB should claim right now.

There cannot be 2 masons to CC to make a field of 3, so there can only be a UB claim or a UB plus a CC. We either get an IC or we win the game if there is a CC.

UB should claim.

[Swowl]

hell skum could even claim fake mason partners with someone to make a 1v1 and and then there can be an additional UB claim - and we still win GTD.

[MiX]

also obvious note:

UB should claim right now.

There cannot be 2 masons to CC to make a field of 3, so there can only be a UB claim or a UB plus a CC. We either get an IC or we win the game if there is a CC.

UB should claim.

Wrong, UB claims when there's 5 people alive, no more, no less. That's as far as we can wait for the UB to be an IC, and there's no reason to do so earlier.

Which is also why we no lynch today.

[Dylan32]

I can only think of 2 reasons for a NK. One was mentioned already with the bulletproof shot or something. The other would be to try to make it look like PR shenanigans happened to make it look like I'm not really what I claimed. However, scum can't counterclaim me, because town wins with the 1v1 no matter which of us is lynched. I know there isn't, but if there were a town counter claim against me out there, they should 100% claim now and seal the win for town. Waiting and counterclaiming me later means you're scum no matter what.

[Dylan32]

Also congrats!

[Dylan32]

I think I would be ok with no lynch if it makes sense today, but I do feel pretty confident that if we lynch yuma, ash, and MiX, we would find the 3rd scum and win.  If scum is outside of that set, then it would be one of the lurkiest scum games I've ever seen from LL or scola, but scola's town I think, and LL hasn't really been scummy, just not active.

[MiX]

I think I would be ok with no lynch if it makes sense today, but I do feel pretty confident that if we lynch yuma, ash, and MiX, we would find the 3rd scum and win.  If scum is outside of that set, then it would be one of the lurkiest scum games I've ever seen from LL or scola, but scola's town I think, and LL hasn't really been scummy, just not active.

We can lynch us three after we no lynch.

What's the downside to no lynching?

[Swowl]

I think I would be ok with no lynch if it makes sense today, but I do feel pretty confident that if we lynch yuma, ash, and MiX, we would find the 3rd scum and win.  If scum is outside of that set, then it would be one of the lurkiest scum games I've ever seen from LL or scola, but scola's town I think, and LL hasn't really been scummy, just not active.

We can lynch us three after we no lynch.

What's the downside to no lynching?

hm. thought.
I have been and am assuming you are both town.
this conversation should stop for now.

[Swowl]

I think I would be ok with no lynch if it makes sense today, but I do feel pretty confident that if we lynch yuma, ash, and MiX, we would find the 3rd scum and win.  If scum is outside of that set, then it would be one of the lurkiest scum games I've ever seen from LL or scola, but scola's town I think, and LL hasn't really been scummy, just not active.

We can lynch us three after we no lynch.

What's the downside to no lynching?

hm. thought.
I have been and am assuming you are both town.
this conversation should stop for now.

that sounded bark-y. not intentional. just pretty please put a pause on it for a smig bit.

[Swowl]

how about this for distraction to read over:

day 1 VCA
Final Day 1 Vote Count

LaLight (1): Joseph2302
faust (3): ashersky, Xxraptorslayer96, LaLight
WestCoastDidds (1): shraeye
cayvie (1): faust
Joseph2302 (6): DatSwan, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, MiX, yuma, scolapasta

Day Two Final Vote Count

Xxraptorslayer96 (1): scolapasta
LaLight (1): yuma
Joseph2302 (6): MiX, WestCoastDidds, LaLight, Dylan32, ashersky, faust

Not Voting (3): Joseph2302, Xxraptorslayer96, DatSwan

*Note – the below logic has me “on Joseph wagon”. Technically I was not, but I made my point clear and obviously pushed the shit out of it (and Raptor), and this is more my thought process. So, if you do not accept me as town, you can probably skip this post, as I am making it from my POV*

- Players that were on Joseph both days – [Dylan, WCD, Mix, Swan]
- Players that were off Joseph both days – [Raptor, Joseph]. Both dead skum.
- Players that were on Day 1, off Day 2 – [Yuma, Scola]
- Players that were off Day 1, on Day 2 – [Raptor]; [Ash, LaLight, faust]
The only people that were OFF wagon on both days are conf!skum. Which means the last group is the interesting group:
Faust – dead town
Raptor – dead skum
Ash (Cayvie at the time) – Checked in at 191 on April 15. Last post of day was 427 on April 19. They then subbed out. So, I suppose, Cayvie/Ash – at least to me – get more of a pass. But still to be noted.
LaLight – This would be my top pick. Wagon at the start of the rush of end of day read:


I don't want to flood with my notes, so if you want to know you can ask, but essentially you can read back and check from VC1.4....
1. We have 2 flipped skum and neither of them were an opposing wagon to Joseph.
2. Day 1 when MiX and Yuma moved to Joseph, followed by a small gap by Pasta, there were suitable other town wagons for them to move to with no downside other than potential skum buddy Joseph. Yet they all went to Joseph. 
3. Day 1 Raptor was on faust, with Ash(cayvie) and LaLight. Normally, it would be weird for there to be 2 skum on such a small wagon like that. However, the alternatives were small tied wagons, and then Joseph. This makes me suspicious of Ash and LL.
4. LL got on that Joseph wagon real damn quick Day 2 after not wanting to get there at all Day 1 (i.e. literally trying to solo make a faust wagon within 24 hours and then peacing out instead of voting somewhere useful).
5. Ash then subbed in for Cayvie at this point, that always messes with how I read shit. But regardless LL is skummier here.

Essentially my scenario is
- I cannot find a reason for the people that piled on Joseph on Day 1 to of done so when they did if they are skum with Joseph. It just was not needed to bus at that point... like they created the damn wagon. So, Yuma, Mix, Ash kind of on a pass list at this point.
- Then no one moved. NO ONE MOVED. There is only one person that has not flipped that was off wagon on Day 1 - that is LaLight.
- Then we go to night... skum chat yadda yadda "we got through that but that isn't gonna look good. who looks worst? LL. k yah. LL make sure to bus".
- So, LL jumps on that bus Day 2 when they didn't want to day 1. Even though Day 1 they were a potential lynch candidate.

I am quite satisfied with a

Vote:LaLight

[Swowl]

ashersky has replaced cayvie

also this. to elaborate on why I don't think Cayvie/Ash should be a target as much as LL.
Ash was subbed in during the night phase.
Ash doesn't read Shraeye's claim of cop as true. Ever.

[MiX]

I don't see why you're looking at Day 2. Raptor didn't vote for Joseph day 2 because he wasn't around, for example. I don't think that day has much significance, given it was clear we would lynch Joseph, at least from my perspective, or at least that it looks really good to bus in D2.

Did cayvie/ash vote for Joseph D1? If so, when?

[A Drowned Kernel]

MOD QUESTION - Does anything happen if we go the 3 days with no death in this game?

No.

[Swowl]

I don't see why you're looking at Day 2. Raptor didn't vote for Joseph day 2 because he wasn't around, for example. I don't think that day has much significance, given it was clear we would lynch Joseph, at least from my perspective, or at least that it looks really good to bus in D2.

Did cayvie/ash vote for Joseph D1? If so, when?

agreed on raptor. it is just pasted in from notes for completion. The focus is Day 1.

Also mod note. You still want to no lynch?

[Swowl]

and cayvie/ash voting for shraeye idk for sure. my point was more based around logic from an ash pov. I do not know if Joseph or Raptor would of realized it, they may of for sure, but i am like 100% sure ash would of.

[MiX]

MOD QUESTION - Does anything happen if we go the 3 days with no death in this game?

No.

We're in it for the long haul.

I don't see why you're looking at Day 2. Raptor didn't vote for Joseph day 2 because he wasn't around, for example. I don't think that day has much significance, given it was clear we would lynch Joseph, at least from my perspective, or at least that it looks really good to bus in D2.

Did cayvie/ash vote for Joseph D1? If so, when?

agreed on raptor. it is just pasted in from notes for completion. The focus is Day 1.

Also mod note. You still want to no lynch?

Yes, I'm not taking responsibility for scum not NKing. Unless I'm scum, of course.

and cayvie/ash voting for shraeye idk for sure. my point was more based around logic from an ash pov. I do not know if Joseph or Raptor would of realized it, they may of for sure, but i am like 100% sure ash would of.

Oh I understand what you said now. I don't think that factored much into killing shraeye, and it's also WIFOM.

[Swowl]

MOD QUESTION - Does anything happen if we go the 3 days with no death in this game?

No.

We're in it for the long haul.

I don't see why you're looking at Day 2. Raptor didn't vote for Joseph day 2 because he wasn't around, for example. I don't think that day has much significance, given it was clear we would lynch Joseph, at least from my perspective, or at least that it looks really good to bus in D2.

Did cayvie/ash vote for Joseph D1? If so, when?

agreed on raptor. it is just pasted in from notes for completion. The focus is Day 1.

Also mod note. You still want to no lynch?

Yes, I'm not taking responsibility for scum not NKing. Unless I'm scum, of course.

and cayvie/ash voting for shraeye idk for sure. my point was more based around logic from an ash pov. I do not know if Joseph or Raptor would of realized it, they may of for sure, but i am like 100% sure ash would of.

Oh I understand what you said now. I don't think that factored much into killing shraeye, and it's also WIFOM.

ok I just don't see the point in No lynching with that statement, but you can do you I suppose.

Also, I mean it is technically WIFOM.. but like.. its almost as much not as it is in this case. Remove the WIFOM. No connections - did YOU think that shraeye was a cop after the claim?

[MiX]

Well, I thought he was scum, and I wasn't gonna bother with seeing if he was a PR or not if he was town.

The point of no lynching is to stalemate the game if scum so chooses. I have no intentions of making the game easier for them.

[MiX]

As a follow up, let's say we had 5 players yesterday, and thus today would be Lylo if someone was NKd. But instead, today would be MyLo. Would you lynch? I wouldn't.

[LaLight]

well, for my two cents, it really doesn't metter if we no lynch toDay, or tomorrow, or the day after that. I agree that we should no lynch at one point, but for now, I am content with vote: MiX

as I remember scum!MiX, he very much reminds me of him now.

[LaLight]

well, as harsh as it is to me to confess it, I really take a bit of a pause after Hunger Games, it almost killed me, and that's why I am a bit lurky. Although I read everything that's going on. Being a vt feels more relaxing, I don't remember when I was it the last time.

[MiX]

well, for my two cents, it really doesn't metter if we no lynch toDay, or tomorrow, or the day after that. I agree that we should no lynch at one point, but for now, I am content with vote: MiX

as I remember scum!MiX, he very much reminds me of him now.

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

well, as harsh as it is to me to confess it, I really take a bit of a pause after Hunger Games, it almost killed me, and that's why I am a bit lurky. Although I read everything that's going on. Being a vt feels more relaxing, I don't remember when I was it the last time.

Okay, I guess you're scum. We should definitely not lynch today.

[LaLight]

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

as a wise man once said, if you know your own meta, you can freely change it.

[LaLight]

well, I guess if you're scum, the point is that you ask the mods, knew that nothing happens if you no kill, then you no kill, we no lynch, you no kill, at one point collective mind will get much more bored and eventually lynch someone and you can continue in a MyLo until the end of the game.

[MiX]

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

as a wise man once said, if you know your own meta, you can freely change it.

Booooooriiiiiing. Whoever did it had a better plan for today than push no lynch all day.

well, I guess if you're scum, the point is that you ask the mods, knew that nothing happens if you no kill, then you no kill, we no lynch, you no kill, at one point collective mind will get much more bored and eventually lynch someone and you can continue in a MyLo until the end of the game.

Sigh, I guess I would do this. Man...now I kinda wish I was scum. Voting correctly every day's cool, but 7v1ing sounds cooler.

[LaLight]

but for the record, the situation in which the game can not progress is very bad. Like, ok now, but if there's 4, 1 scum/three town, it's never a good thing to lynch for town and never a good thing to kill for scum. Stalemate, starving to death

[MiX]

but for the record, the situation in which the game can not progress is very bad. Like, ok now, but if there's 4, 1 scum/three town, it's never a good thing to lynch for town and never a good thing to kill for scum. Stalemate, starving to death

The game's never going to end. Which is why this is futile for scum. They started it.

[LaLight]

Booooooriiiiiing. Whoever did it had a better plan for today than push no lynch all day.

yeah, sure. We no lynch, scum no kills again, and you will be like, oh well, didn't work

but you contributed, right? :)

[LaLight]

but for the record, the situation in which the game can not progress is very bad. Like, ok now, but if there's 4, 1 scum/three town, it's never a good thing to lynch for town and never a good thing to kill for scum. Stalemate, starving to death

The game's never going to end. Which is why this is futile for scum. They started it.

if the game doesn't end, scum doesn't lose. And usually town cares less about winning than scum, especially if scum is one.

This is my opinion

[LaLight]

Vote: No lynch

Why did no one die?

This is the first post of the day. And I don't believe it not one bit

[LaLight]

Now I beg to excuse me, it's 5am and I sleep.

I will be here tomorrow. Or you lynch MiX and we win.

[MiX]

Booooooriiiiiing. Whoever did it had a better plan for today than push no lynch all day.

yeah, sure. We no lynch, scum no kills again, and you will be like, oh well, didn't work

but you contributed, right?

Yes, I came that conclusion eventually.

Vote: No lynch

Why did no one die?

This is the first post of the day. And I don't believe it not one bit

What specific part do you not believe?

PPE: Same!

[LaLight]

Booooooriiiiiing. Whoever did it had a better plan for today than push no lynch all day.

yeah, sure. We no lynch, scum no kills again, and you will be like, oh well, didn't work

but you contributed, right?

Yes, I came that conclusion eventually.

Vote: No lynch

Why did no one die?

This is the first post of the day. And I don't believe it not one bit

What specific part do you not believe?

PPE: Same!

Meta: how come us europeans don't sleep and everyone else is away?

I don't believe the sincerity of your question and I don't believe you just decided to no lynch when you saw no flip. I think it was planned.

[MiX]

I did decide to no lynch after I saw no flip. It was (almost, I was very confused for a moment) as a quick reaction as seeing a MyLo.

Also, sleeping's overrated.

[yuma]

No lynch is boring and not fun so I am inherently against it. But won't actively push against it.

[Swowl]

well, for my two cents, it really doesn't metter if we no lynch toDay, or tomorrow, or the day after that. I agree that we should no lynch at one point, but for now, I am content with vote: MiX

as I remember scum!MiX, he very much reminds me of him now.

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

well, as harsh as it is to me to confess it, I really take a bit of a pause after Hunger Games, it almost killed me, and that's why I am a bit lurky. Although I read everything that's going on. Being a vt feels more relaxing, I don't remember when I was it the last time.

Okay, I guess you're scum. We should definitely not lynch today.

lol you are literally delaying the game right now by arguing not to lynch.

[MiX]

well, for my two cents, it really doesn't metter if we no lynch toDay, or tomorrow, or the day after that. I agree that we should no lynch at one point, but for now, I am content with vote: MiX

as I remember scum!MiX, he very much reminds me of him now.

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

well, as harsh as it is to me to confess it, I really take a bit of a pause after Hunger Games, it almost killed me, and that's why I am a bit lurky. Although I read everything that's going on. Being a vt feels more relaxing, I don't remember when I was it the last time.

Okay, I guess you're scum. We should definitely not lynch today.

lol you are literally delaying the game right now by arguing not to lynch.

We're going to skip a day anyway, right? The earlier we do, the shorter the game is.

[MiX]

well, for my two cents, it really doesn't metter if we no lynch toDay, or tomorrow, or the day after that. I agree that we should no lynch at one point, but for now, I am content with vote: MiX

as I remember scum!MiX, he very much reminds me of him now.

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

well, as harsh as it is to me to confess it, I really take a bit of a pause after Hunger Games, it almost killed me, and that's why I am a bit lurky. Although I read everything that's going on. Being a vt feels more relaxing, I don't remember when I was it the last time.

Okay, I guess you're scum. We should definitely not lynch today.

lol you are literally delaying the game right now by arguing not to lynch.

We're going to skip a day anyway, right? The earlier we do, the shorter the game is.

Unless we lynch scum, I forgot we can lynch scum. Lol.

Okay, no sleeping and posting anymore.

[ashersky]

I literally laughed out loud, for a long time.  Amazing.

I caught up, saw a lot of talk about mafia not killing at night and no lynches and what not.  But let's just be real:

If what we thought to be true yesterday was true, there was no reason for mafia not to shoot last night.  If Dylan was honest in his claim, nothing could stop the shot.

Regardless of any other thought process, less living townies is a positive for mafia.  So, what are the possibilities we are working with today?

1. An unclaimed E, D, or B.  This would mean Dylan is the remaining scum, having planned an epic D3 with raptor.
2. Mafia shooting themselves, saved by BP.  MiX pointed out this option idea in thread.
3. Mafia forgot to shoot.
4. Mafia decided not to shoot.

I don't see any other possibilities.

Raptor's flip didn't change anything about the situation we knew about yesterday.  (On a side note, you all need to stop taking away my hammer opportunities.)  As I made the strong case against MiX yesterday, and that case did not hinge on his partner's identity, I of course still believe MiX is the remaining scum.  With the new information we have from the night and so far today, that's only solidified itself further.

Note: If Dylan is actually the final scum, that's a D5 lynch at the earliest.  What an incredibly play in general, and I will just say that the level of scum play since I returned has really increased (referencing HungerLL, of course).

In the case of #1 above, E or B should claim.  E sets up a 1v1 with Dylan again, and B caught scum.  D should remain hidden.
In the case of #2 above, MiX is scum, since who thinks of that?  MiX does, and can't help but admit it in thread.
In the case of #3 above, highly unlikely, but I guess technically possible?  I'm ignoring this for now.
In the case of #4 above, MiX is scum, since who thought that through completely?  MiX did, and couldn't help but admit it in thread.

So in 2 of the 3 possible scenarios (again, ignoring forgetfulness), MiX is the leader. 

Pushing no lynch is scummy.  This isn't 4 alive with 1 scum, no lynching to get to 3-person LYLO.  This is plenty of town alive to scumhunt, so why shut it down?  Who's doing that ? MiX.

Scream confirmation bias all you want.  Of course there's some of that.  Because I am convinced I am right, and I can't just set that aside to find some reason to defend my extremely strong scumread.  And the truth of the matter is, even if I were to somehow to be wrong, whatever.  We have plenty of time and plenty of mislynches to spend.

But I'm not wrong.  I will eat a hat if I'm wrong.

vote: MiX

[WestCoastDidds]

Eating a hat?! That’s amazing.

Ash, can you please tell me what the E,B, and D mean in #1?

[scolapasta]

It's from the set up:
We are TTTTTE, TTTTTB, or TTTTTD (or TTTTTT with Dylan lying and mafia not shooting, trivial to ignore)

E would be a 1-shot doctor (or 1-shot cop as dylan with mafia not shooting)
B would be a Roleblocker
D would be a full Doctor

In any of these cases, Dylan is lying.

Is there any realistic case where Dylan would lie and still be town? though, I'd think if that could've been true, Day 3, he wouldn't continue with it now Day 4.

[scolapasta]

Also to ash's 3, I think Didds pointed out, it was a shortened night. So it can't be that. And shooting BP self, is the same as not shooting. So we're down to 1 and 4:

Dylan is lying
scum chose not to shoot

at first glance, the first to me seems more plausible, as a desperate attempt to have us kill Dylan for them.

i.e if the kill a non Dylan town, then we start the day with 7 alive. If they don't, get us to lynch Dylan, an NK someone same tomorrow, they're at 6 alive in the next situation, having us doing their work for them.

I still think we should vote someone today. For me I think my vote's likely to be either mix or ash.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thanks, Scola! That was really helpful.

For me, the problem with MiX is that he has been on Joseph, Jospeh, raptor at days end. That seems unnecessary, especially since Raptor wasn’t a foregone conclusion.

I like vote: LaLight who was only on the D2 Joseph lynch. Plus I’m still scarred.

[Swowl]

I literally laughed out loud, for a long time.  Amazing.

I caught up, saw a lot of talk about mafia not killing at night and no lynches and what not.  But let's just be real:

If what we thought to be true yesterday was true, there was no reason for mafia not to shoot last night.  If Dylan was honest in his claim, nothing could stop the shot.

Regardless of any other thought process, less living townies is a positive for mafia.  So, what are the possibilities we are working with today?

1. An unclaimed E, D, or B.  This would mean Dylan is the remaining scum, having planned an epic D3 with raptor.
2. Mafia shooting themselves, saved by BP.  MiX pointed out this option idea in thread.
3. Mafia forgot to shoot.
4. Mafia decided not to shoot.

I don't see any other possibilities.

Raptor's flip didn't change anything about the situation we knew about yesterday.  (On a side note, you all need to stop taking away my hammer opportunities.)  As I made the strong case against MiX yesterday, and that case did not hinge on his partner's identity, I of course still believe MiX is the remaining scum.  With the new information we have from the night and so far today, that's only solidified itself further.

Note: If Dylan is actually the final scum, that's a D5 lynch at the earliest.  What an incredibly play in general, and I will just say that the level of scum play since I returned has really increased (referencing HungerLL, of course).

In the case of #1 above, E or B should claim.  E sets up a 1v1 with Dylan again, and B caught scum.  D should remain hidden.
In the case of #2 above, MiX is scum, since who thinks of that?  MiX does, and can't help but admit it in thread.
In the case of #3 above, highly unlikely, but I guess technically possible?  I'm ignoring this for now.
In the case of #4 above, MiX is scum, since who thought that through completely?  MiX did, and couldn't help but admit it in thread.

So in 2 of the 3 possible scenarios (again, ignoring forgetfulness), MiX is the leader. 

Pushing no lynch is scummy.  This isn't 4 alive with 1 scum, no lynching to get to 3-person LYLO.  This is plenty of town alive to scumhunt, so why shut it down?  Who's doing that ? MiX.

Scream confirmation bias all you want.  Of course there's some of that.  Because I am convinced I am right, and I can't just set that aside to find some reason to defend my extremely strong scumread.  And the truth of the matter is, even if I were to somehow to be wrong, whatever.  We have plenty of time and plenty of mislynches to spend.

But I'm not wrong.  I will eat a hat if I'm wrong.

vote: MiX

I think you said "what we thought was true yesterday is still true today" when you meant "what I thought was true yesterday is still true today".

Thoughts on UB claim?

[yuma]

vote: lalight

[Swowl]

ok all can I get some chime in on the UB claim thing pleaseeee.

No like claim it out. Just what people think about it.

[Swowl]

well, for my two cents, it really doesn't metter if we no lynch toDay, or tomorrow, or the day after that. I agree that we should no lynch at one point, but for now, I am content with vote: MiX

as I remember scum!MiX, he very much reminds me of him now.

Meta: I would never, ever delay the game like this. What's the point?

well, as harsh as it is to me to confess it, I really take a bit of a pause after Hunger Games, it almost killed me, and that's why I am a bit lurky. Although I read everything that's going on. Being a vt feels more relaxing, I don't remember when I was it the last time.

Okay, I guess you're scum. We should definitely not lynch today.

i mean if he's skum.... we should probably lynch... skum... right?

[yuma]

Wait a few days until it is necessary. No rush on UB claim here.

[scolapasta]

Not sure I understand the UB claim logic enough to opine. Care to elaborate?

[Swowl]

logic would be that no one can CC because if that happens we win.
if UB claims then we limit the field of players we have to look at by one more.

I don't NOT understand MiX and Yuma wanting to wait it out. I just feel like in this spot it would be better to do it now than later.

[yuma]

logic would be that no one can CC because if that happens we win.
if UB claims then we limit the field of players we have to look at by one more.

I don't NOT understand MiX and Yuma wanting to wait it out. I just feel like in this spot it would be better to do it now than later.

Having the UB claim now will mean a likely town win sooner, but having it wait is better in scenarios where we need that slight advantage in the long run. Each night the UB doesn't claim is a night where they might shoot another townie (instead of the UB) that could have been a potential mislynch.

But I have already claimed VT and don't really care either way. I am not claiming UB but I won't be outraged if the UB personally wants to claim. It is always the prerogative of the role to claim when they choose to do so.

[Swowl]

logic would be that no one can CC because if that happens we win.
if UB claims then we limit the field of players we have to look at by one more.

I don't NOT understand MiX and Yuma wanting to wait it out. I just feel like in this spot it would be better to do it now than later.

Having the UB claim now will mean a likely town win sooner, but having it wait is better in scenarios where we need that slight advantage in the long run. Each night the UB doesn't claim is a night where they might shoot another townie (instead of the UB) that could have been a potential mislynch.

But I have already claimed VT and don't really care either way. I am not claiming UB but I won't be outraged if the UB personally wants to claim. It is always the prerogative of the role to claim when they choose to do so.

I think we are just 2 sides of the same coin on this - which is fine. I think the risk of UB waiting is too high and you believe the reward is potentially high enough. That I can, still not like agree with, but at least get. The exactness of 5 players.. that I still don't get.

[yuma]

I mean as long as we don't accidentally lynch the UB what is the risk of waiting?

[Swowl]

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

[ashersky]

FYI, I think DatSwan's vote on LL wouldn't have counted, so LL has 2 and MiX has 2.

[ashersky]

I've already laid out who I think is okay to claim.  That did not include the UB.

[ashersky]

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

We have eight alive.  The chance we'll need to iso out anyone is slim.  True random lynches still result in a win for town a lot, no?  Let's assume the NK is stopped every other night:

7 v 1, ML+NK
5 v 1, ML
4 v 1, ML+NK
2 v 1

That's three free mislynches before LYLO.  The chance we swing and miss four times in a row is small.  With no NKs, we get even more.  Even with NKs every night, we just NL that third ML to get to the same LYLO.

(This scenario-running is also clear evidence why not shooting is just a terrible idea by scum.)

So I'm not worried about anything.  I think only those I mentioned should claim.  Heck, they don't even need to if they don't want to and we STILL win based on our efforts.

(And by that I mean, we lynch MiX and win.)

[MiX]

I literally laughed out loud, for a long time.  Amazing.

I caught up, saw a lot of talk about mafia not killing at night and no lynches and what not.  But let's just be real:

If what we thought to be true yesterday was true, there was no reason for mafia not to shoot last night.  If Dylan was honest in his claim, nothing could stop the shot.

Regardless of any other thought process, less living townies is a positive for mafia.  So, what are the possibilities we are working with today?

1. An unclaimed E, D, or B.  This would mean Dylan is the remaining scum, having planned an epic D3 with raptor.
2. Mafia shooting themselves, saved by BP.  MiX pointed out this option idea in thread.
3. Mafia forgot to shoot.
4. Mafia decided not to shoot.

I don't see any other possibilities.

Raptor's flip didn't change anything about the situation we knew about yesterday.  (On a side note, you all need to stop taking away my hammer opportunities.)  As I made the strong case against MiX yesterday, and that case did not hinge on his partner's identity, I of course still believe MiX is the remaining scum.  With the new information we have from the night and so far today, that's only solidified itself further.

Note: If Dylan is actually the final scum, that's a D5 lynch at the earliest.  What an incredibly play in general, and I will just say that the level of scum play since I returned has really increased (referencing HungerLL, of course).

In the case of #1 above, E or B should claim.  E sets up a 1v1 with Dylan again, and B caught scum.  D should remain hidden.
In the case of #2 above, MiX is scum, since who thinks of that?  MiX does, and can't help but admit it in thread.
In the case of #3 above, highly unlikely, but I guess technically possible?  I'm ignoring this for now.
In the case of #4 above, MiX is scum, since who thought that through completely?  MiX did, and couldn't help but admit it in thread.

So in 2 of the 3 possible scenarios (again, ignoring forgetfulness), MiX is the leader. 

Pushing no lynch is scummy.  This isn't 4 alive with 1 scum, no lynching to get to 3-person LYLO.  This is plenty of town alive to scumhunt, so why shut it down?  Who's doing that ? MiX.

Scream confirmation bias all you want.  Of course there's some of that.  Because I am convinced I am right, and I can't just set that aside to find some reason to defend my extremely strong scumread.  And the truth of the matter is, even if I were to somehow to be wrong, whatever.  We have plenty of time and plenty of mislynches to spend.

But I'm not wrong.  I will eat a hat if I'm wrong.

vote: MiX

CONFIRMATION BIAAAAAAAAS!

Jokes aside, I can repeat this one more time: just because I said what scum would say, doesn't mean scum said something. I can indeed be the only person that could've scumslipped, but it doesn't mean I did. Your case is just "here's what scum would say, MiX said it, therefore MiX is scum" when you're forgetting about the fact that scum doesn't have to say it. They don't need to say anything, they can play it cool. I wouldn't, yes, because I know that as town I say it, but again, I'm not scum, so that would have to come from the bias of thinking I'm scum in the first place.

I want no lynch because scum doesn't want no lynch. I'm not giving scum what they want, so I'm willing to go back to status quo.

On other scumreads, since no one wants to no lynch, I guess I should say yuma or ash are scum IMO, I don't think LL or Didds would think of not NKing.

[MiX]

ok all can I get some chime in on the UB claim thing pleaseeee.

No like claim it out. Just what people think about it.

Unnecessary.

logic would be that no one can CC because if that happens we win.
if UB claims then we limit the field of players we have to look at by one more.

I don't NOT understand MiX and Yuma wanting to wait it out. I just feel like in this spot it would be better to do it now than later.

Having the UB claim now will mean a likely town win sooner, but having it wait is better in scenarios where we need that slight advantage in the long run. Each night the UB doesn't claim is a night where they might shoot another townie (instead of the UB) that could have been a potential mislynch.

But I have already claimed VT and don't really care either way. I am not claiming UB but I won't be outraged if the UB personally wants to claim. It is always the prerogative of the role to claim when they choose to do so.

I think we are just 2 sides of the same coin on this - which is fine. I think the risk of UB waiting is too high and you believe the reward is potentially high enough. That I can, still not like agree with, but at least get. The exactness of 5 players.. that I still don't get.

If the UB is at L-1, they can safely claim. That reminds me, ash, can you turn off your hammer to just after people claim VT? For example, Didds claimed VT D1, so they can't be UB, so that's fine, whereas everyone else can still be UB.

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

We have eight alive.  The chance we'll need to iso out anyone is slim.  True random lynches still result in a win for town a lot, no?  Let's assume the NK is stopped every other night:

7 v 1, ML+NK
5 v 1, ML
4 v 1, ML+NK
2 v 1

That's three free mislynches before LYLO.  The chance we swing and miss four times in a row is small.  With no NKs, we get even more.  Even with NKs every night, we just NL that third ML to get to the same LYLO.

(This scenario-running is also clear evidence why not shooting is just a terrible idea by scum.)

So I'm not worried about anything.  I think only those I mentioned should claim.  Heck, they don't even need to if they don't want to and we STILL win based on our efforts.

(And by that I mean, we lynch MiX and win.)

Why in the world are you assuming scum will fail to NK again? There's no doctor, and if there is we win the game.

We probably win by lynching you, yuma and then me, yeah. But we can definitely lose, I have 3 scumreads compared to the 2 mislynches we can do (because I also have to defend myself).

[LaLight]

I literally laughed out loud, for a long time.  Amazing.

I caught up, saw a lot of talk about mafia not killing at night and no lynches and what not.  But let's just be real:

If what we thought to be true yesterday was true, there was no reason for mafia not to shoot last night.  If Dylan was honest in his claim, nothing could stop the shot.

Regardless of any other thought process, less living townies is a positive for mafia.  So, what are the possibilities we are working with today?

1. An unclaimed E, D, or B.  This would mean Dylan is the remaining scum, having planned an epic D3 with raptor.
2. Mafia shooting themselves, saved by BP.  MiX pointed out this option idea in thread.
3. Mafia forgot to shoot.
4. Mafia decided not to shoot.

I don't see any other possibilities.

Raptor's flip didn't change anything about the situation we knew about yesterday.  (On a side note, you all need to stop taking away my hammer opportunities.)  As I made the strong case against MiX yesterday, and that case did not hinge on his partner's identity, I of course still believe MiX is the remaining scum.  With the new information we have from the night and so far today, that's only solidified itself further.

Note: If Dylan is actually the final scum, that's a D5 lynch at the earliest.  What an incredibly play in general, and I will just say that the level of scum play since I returned has really increased (referencing HungerLL, of course).

In the case of #1 above, E or B should claim.  E sets up a 1v1 with Dylan again, and B caught scum.  D should remain hidden.
In the case of #2 above, MiX is scum, since who thinks of that?  MiX does, and can't help but admit it in thread.
In the case of #3 above, highly unlikely, but I guess technically possible?  I'm ignoring this for now.
In the case of #4 above, MiX is scum, since who thought that through completely?  MiX did, and couldn't help but admit it in thread.

So in 2 of the 3 possible scenarios (again, ignoring forgetfulness), MiX is the leader. 

Pushing no lynch is scummy.  This isn't 4 alive with 1 scum, no lynching to get to 3-person LYLO.  This is plenty of town alive to scumhunt, so why shut it down?  Who's doing that ? MiX.

Scream confirmation bias all you want.  Of course there's some of that.  Because I am convinced I am right, and I can't just set that aside to find some reason to defend my extremely strong scumread.  And the truth of the matter is, even if I were to somehow to be wrong, whatever.  We have plenty of time and plenty of mislynches to spend.

But I'm not wrong.  I will eat a hat if I'm wrong.

vote: MiX

CONFIRMATION BIAAAAAAAAS!

Jokes aside, I can repeat this one more time: just because I said what scum would say, doesn't mean scum said something. I can indeed be the only person that could've scumslipped, but it doesn't mean I did. Your case is just "here's what scum would say, MiX said it, therefore MiX is scum" when you're forgetting about the fact that scum doesn't have to say it. They don't need to say anything, they can play it cool. I wouldn't, yes, because I know that as town I say it, but again, I'm not scum, so that would have to come from the bias of thinking I'm scum in the first place.

I want no lynch because scum doesn't want no lynch. I'm not giving scum what they want, so I'm willing to go back to status quo.

On other scumreads, since no one wants to no lynch, I guess I should say yuma or ash are scum IMO, I don't think LL or Didds would think of not NKing.

i thought of no nking on the last night of hunger games, don't put that above me.

[yuma]

I want to vote MiX just so I can be right about something for once this game. But I think I like the lalight vote more

[yuma]

And I wouldn't no kill as mafia. Boring!!!!!

[MiX]

And I wouldn't no kill as mafia. Boring!!!!!

Hmmmm okay then, let's play this game: who would?

[yuma]

And I wouldn't no kill as mafia. Boring!!!!!

Hmmmm okay then, let's play this game: who would?

That sounds like a hard game.

[yuma]

Especially when there is so much better info to go off than speculation about what an unknown person would do at night.

Basically the no kill at night made up for the no lynch so we are back to where we should be in the game. Going into a no lynch or trying to figure out who is mafia based off that is wasting all the info already generated from two successful lunches. It isn't something I am interested in.

[MiX]

Especially when there is so much better info to go off than speculation about what an unknown person would do at night.

Basically the no kill at night made up for the no lynch so we are back to where we should be in the game. Going into a no lynch or trying to figure out who is mafia based off that is wasting all the info already generated from two successful lunches. It isn't something I am interested in.

Town answer. My problem with you is you've only pushed town and defended scum at every opportunity, but everything independent of association is towny.

Will anyone lynch ash? Because I think he's most likely to be scum, but I prefer to no lynch. I understand your thought process, and I would agree with you, if it weren't what scum wanted to do. No NK can only lead to either no lynch, which puts the ball in their court again, or a lynch, which is different from how it could be, which means scum wants to lynch with 8 people alive. Maybe they're wrong, sure, but I don't want to give scum the option to choose how many people are alive. Which I suppose we can lock them into killing twice if we lynch twice now, but then we might've rewarded their play of no NK N3, which I don't really want to.

[yuma]

I dont think ash is scum

[scolapasta]

I guess I'm not really understanding the logic for no NK. Can anyone explain why mafia would do that?

To me it just gives us an extra lynch to catch them.

Oh wait, maybe it doesn't (I'll still post this, in case this is wrong).

With 8 left, we lynch 1, then NK, 6 left, we lynch 2, then NK, 4 left, we lynch 3, then NK, 2 left, they win.
With 7 left, we lynch 1, then NK, 5 left, we lynch 2, then NK, 3 left, we lynch 3, 2 left, they win.

So, in that sense, it's still 3 days to catch them either way. Is that it?

If we no lynch, what's to stop them from just no NK again and then how would we actually end such a stalemate? (as mod pointed out there's no such stalemate breaking rule)

[yuma]

If we could force them to kill it would be worth exploring. But it is still boring. But we dont. But makes sense within the framework of the game. You cant force someone to take an action. Stalemate is lame. vote: lalight

[Swowl]

My vote was not correctly formatted from before.

Vote: LaLight

[Dylan32]

I guess I'm not really understanding the logic for no NK. Can anyone explain why mafia would do that?

To me it just gives us an extra lynch to catch them.

Oh wait, maybe it doesn't (I'll still post this, in case this is wrong).

With 8 left, we lynch 1, then NK, 6 left, we lynch 2, then NK, 4 left, we lynch 3, then NK, 2 left, they win.
With 7 left, we lynch 1, then NK, 5 left, we lynch 2, then NK, 3 left, we lynch 3, 2 left, they win.

So, in that sense, it's still 3 days to catch them either way. Is that it?

If we no lynch, what's to stop them from just no NK again and then how would we actually end such a stalemate? (as mod pointed out there's no such stalemate breaking rule)

Ask yourself this. Would you rather try to get yourself and 2 other town on the same wagon to correctly lynch scum, or you and one other person?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 4.1

LaLight (3): WestCoastDidds, yuma, DatSwan
MiX (2): LaLight, ashersky

No Lynch (1): MiX

Not Voting (2): Dylan32, scolapasta

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Day Four ends at 5 pm forum time May 2nd.

[LaLight]

i am so sure mix is scum, so if i had a chance, I'd fake claim a cop having guilty on him

[MiX]

i am so sure mix is scum, so if i had a chance, I'd fake claim a cop having guilty on him

I have no idea how I can be scumread while voting for scum literally every day and pushing scum at every opportunity.

If you were town, you would be considering that ash could be scum.

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today. If we lynch, and scum decided to no NK when there's 4 ppl alive, technically town will be the one that stopped to use their faction kill first. I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

[yuma]

I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

Tell me how to force mafia to kill and I will happily go along with you. Well not happily, cause boring!!! But we can't? Right? So what is the point?

[MiX]

I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

Tell me how to force mafia to kill and I will happily go along with you. Well not happily, cause boring!!! But we can't? Right? So what is the point?

I'm willing to guilt trip mafia into NKing. Just insta no lynch and go back to night. They're the ones responsible for this.

[ashersky]

There's no doctor, and if there is we win the game.

Another scumslip.

[MiX]

There's no doctor, and if there is we win the game.

Another scumslip.

It's either right or wrong, and neither of those are alignment indicative.

[ashersky]

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today.

Said every scum ever.

"Willing to hammer X, but I really don't want to..." is basically required scum vocab.

[MiX]

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today.

Said every scum ever.

"Willing to hammer X, but I really don't want to..." is basically required scum vocab.

For the last time, just because scum says it doesn't mean I'm scum for saying it.

[yuma]

I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

Tell me how to force mafia to kill and I will happily go along with you. Well not happily, cause boring!!! But we can't? Right? So what is the point?

I'm willing to guilt trip mafia into NKing. Just insta no lynch and go back to night. They're the ones responsible for this.

Responsible for what? Why will guilt trips work? Tou think they will feel bad?

vote: mix

[LaLight]

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today.

Said every scum ever.

"Willing to hammer X, but I really don't want to..." is basically required scum vocab.

thanks for not hammering!

[MiX]

I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

Tell me how to force mafia to kill and I will happily go along with you. Well not happily, cause boring!!! But we can't? Right? So what is the point?

I'm willing to guilt trip mafia into NKing. Just insta no lynch and go back to night. They're the ones responsible for this.

Responsible for what? Why will guilt trips work? Tou think they will feel bad?

vote: mix

Yes.

These circumstances make me want to vote LaLight, but I know that's not the town thing to do. I'd rather die being town than live playing into scum's play.

[ashersky]

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today.

Said every scum ever.

"Willing to hammer X, but I really don't want to..." is basically required scum vocab.

thanks for not hammering!

You were at L-2, so I couldn't.

[Swowl]

I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

Tell me how to force mafia to kill and I will happily go along with you. Well not happily, cause boring!!! But we can't? Right? So what is the point?

I'm willing to guilt trip mafia into NKing. Just insta no lynch and go back to night. They're the ones responsible for this.

Responsible for what? Why will guilt trips work? Tou think they will feel bad?

vote: mix

Yes.

These circumstances make me want to vote LaLight, but I know that's not the town thing to do. I'd rather die being town than live playing into scum's play.

I think my LL case is pretty sound. Like more sound than a case I have heard on you. If you are town, and you don't wanna lynch LL... who is it that you wanna lynch? Leave ash out of it for now, that is not happening today.

[LaLight]

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today.

Said every scum ever.

"Willing to hammer X, but I really don't want to..." is basically required scum vocab.

thanks for not hammering!

You were at L-2, so I couldn't.

ah

why didMiX intent to hammer me then

[MiX]

I'm not giving scum the opportunity to say we're the ones that stalled the game.

Tell me how to force mafia to kill and I will happily go along with you. Well not happily, cause boring!!! But we can't? Right? So what is the point?

I'm willing to guilt trip mafia into NKing. Just insta no lynch and go back to night. They're the ones responsible for this.

Responsible for what? Why will guilt trips work? Tou think they will feel bad?

vote: mix

Yes.

These circumstances make me want to vote LaLight, but I know that's not the town thing to do. I'd rather die being town than live playing into scum's play.

I think my LL case is pretty sound. Like more sound than a case I have heard on you. If you are town, and you don't wanna lynch LL... who is it that you wanna lynch? Leave ash out of it for now, that is not happening today.

No one. I think I've been pretty clear on that one.

[MiX]

Willing to hammer LL, but I really don't want to lynch today.

Said every scum ever.

"Willing to hammer X, but I really don't want to..." is basically required scum vocab.

thanks for not hammering!

You were at L-2, so I couldn't.

ah

why didMiX intent to hammer me then

Because if I voted, ash would hammer, so I basically hammer you by putting you at L-1.

FWIW I agree with Swan, but LL's not the only option for scum. And I don't wanna lynch anyway.

[WestCoastDidds]

I am not used to MiX being quite so stubborn. Hhhmmmm

[yuma]

So mix isn't voting today. Everyone else is. Let's move on.

[MiX]

So mix isn't voting today. Everyone else is. Let's move on.

I'll vote, but just to "hammer", which is putting someone at L-1. Obviously I should've done it earlier as I can't see today being anyone other than LL/MiX, but I don't have that kind of foresight.

Since this day is huge (why is it a 2 week day?) I guess I can put forth a case since no one wants to force scum's hand and prefer to play into their plan.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So mix isn't voting today. Everyone else is. Let's move on.

I'll vote, but just to "hammer", which is putting someone at L-1. Obviously I should've done it earlier as I can't see today being anyone other than LL/MiX, but I don't have that kind of foresight.

Since this day is huge (why is it a 2 week day?) I guess I can put forth a case since no one wants to force scum's hand and prefer to play into their plan.

That's a mod error, this will be a normal 1 week day. I will fix the deadline info.

[scolapasta]

I'll be honest, Im actually starting to be swayed my nolynch idea. Once I realized it's still 3 days either way...

Ask yourself this. Would you rather try to get yourself and 2 other town on the same wagon to correctly lynch scum, or you and one other person?

Right. I think getting one other person with you is better than 2, no? (please correct this logic for me if I'm mistaken)

I do think scum will just not NK again and we're back here the same tomorrow. At some point, mod will have to make one of us decide.

[scolapasta]

On a separate track, I asked this before, is there any scenario on which Dylan would lie, and continue to lie, about PR, and be town?

I could see maybe the lie before (similar to shraye (btw, congratulations!)), but I don't think he'd continue now with that NK. i.e. it'd be good to know if there's still a (non Blocker*) PR out there.

*non Blocker, because this one seems trivial to reveal now.

[MiX]

On a separate track, I asked this before, is there any scenario on which Dylan would lie, and continue to lie, about PR, and be town?

I could see maybe the lie before (similar to shraye (btw, congratulations!)), but I don't think he'd continue now with that NK. i.e. it'd be good to know if there's still a (non Blocker*) PR out there.

*non Blocker, because this one seems trivial to reveal now.

No.

[scolapasta]

Making it official (for now):

Vote: No Lynch

[yuma]

Making it official (for now):

Vote: No Lynch

Your logic is fine except we have no way to force mafia to act. They know that killing us better for town. So why would they?

We no lynch. They no kill and we are back in the same place. Repeat. Repeat. Until what? It is a tie? The only way we can progress is by lynching mafia.

Plus BORING

[scolapasta]

Mod to have to break the stalemate. Maybe they find a creative way. Then, no longer boring.

[MiX]

Making it official (for now):

Vote: No Lynch

Your logic is fine except we have no way to force mafia to act. They know that killing us better for town. So why would they?

We no lynch. They no kill and we are back in the same place. Repeat. Repeat. Until what? It is a tie? The only way we can progress is by lynching mafia.

Plus BORING

So you're in the "lynch when there's 4 people alive" camp?

[yuma]

Making it official (for now):

Vote: No Lynch

Your logic is fine except we have no way to force mafia to act. They know that killing us better for town. So why would they?

We no lynch. They no kill and we are back in the same place. Repeat. Repeat. Until what? It is a tie? The only way we can progress is by lynching mafia.

Plus BORING

So you're in the "lynch when there's 4 people alive" camp?

If there is no other course of action. Sure. 3 is better. But if the game rules dont allow then I would rather lynch at 4 than stalemate. This has all been said 10 times instead of talking about who to lynch.

vote: mix

Until something happens to allow town to force a mafia kill  (unlikely) then I think this is just a distraction and a road of futility. And even then no lynch is BORING

[Dylan32]

Ok, I had formerly said that lynching yuma, Ash, and MiX would find scum #3. Scum wouldn't be stuck so hard on the no lynch, because the simple fact is scum wants us to go ahead and lynch. Yes, no lynching doesn't really help since there's no way to force scum to shoot either, but I feel like scum would be in the why not, let's just go ahead and lynch, especially when more than half the town agrees rather than sticking out like this, so I'm considering MiX out of the lynch pool.

Which means the case on LL could be true, but I just think Swan is putting too much stock on the off wagon D1, on wagon D2 pool being scummier.  So it's scummier to be on a wagon that successfully lynches scum than it is to be on one that comes up short? That's basically what you're saying. Yuma went from bussing (after momentum was building towards Joseph, they were the fifth person on out of six, so it's not like it was the pivotal vote to make it viable) D1 when raptor failed to hammer to straight up pushing away from Joseph and raptor saying it was a false road to go down, and LL seeing raptor's fail as scummy and voting Joseph is worse? Ok, as I typed that, I guess LL voting so quickly and confidently does come across as scum planning on bussing there...  But if LL is town, yuma should be our next lynch.

Seriously, the only defense yuma has given is that the start of D2 would have been terrible scum play.  Honestly, it almost was great. People were starting to pull away from the Joseph wagon D2 until I claimed, then faust, ash, and maybe someone else came back to it and pushed the lynch through, so it wasn't a given that Joseph was getting lynched. Also, if I remember past games, it seems like people who survive having big wagons D1 tend to make it fairly deep into the game unless they keep looking scummy or get caught by a PR or lie.  As long as Joseph doesn't flip, that slight pressure away from him combined with yuma's other comment about their lynch record being just so-so and fact they could play the "1st game back, I'm rusty" card would be enough to keep pressure off of you.  It's only the cop result and nearly immediate lynch and flip that makes it look bad, because the simple fact is it could have worked.

All that said, willing to vote LL today, but don't remember what the count is yet, so I'm gonna look back before I do.

[Dylan32]

Ok, I had formerly said that lynching yuma, Ash, and MiX would find scum #3. Scum wouldn't be stuck so hard on the no lynch, because the simple fact is scum wants us to go ahead and lynch. Yes, no lynching doesn't really help since there's no way to force scum to shoot either, but I feel like scum would be in the why not, let's just go ahead and lynch, especially when more than half the town agrees rather than sticking out like this, so I'm considering MiX out of the lynch pool.

Which means the case on LL could be true, but I just think Swan is putting too much stock on the off wagon D1, on wagon D2 pool being scummier.  So it's scummier to be on a wagon that successfully lynches scum than it is to be on one that comes up short? That's basically what you're saying. Yuma went from bussing (after momentum was building towards Joseph, they were the fifth person on out of six, so it's not like it was the pivotal vote to make it viable) D1 when raptor failed to hammer to straight up pushing away from Joseph and raptor saying it was a false road to go down, and LL seeing raptor's fail as scummy and voting Joseph is worse? Ok, as I typed that, I guess LL voting so quickly and confidently does come across as scum planning on bussing there...  But if LL is town, yuma should be our next lynch.

Seriously, the only defense yuma has given is that the start of D2 would have been terrible scum play.  Honestly, it almost was great. People were starting to pull away from the Joseph wagon D2 until I claimed, then faust, ash, and maybe someone else came back to it and pushed the lynch through, so it wasn't a given that Joseph was getting lynched. Also, if I remember past games, it seems like people who survive having big wagons D1 tend to make it fairly deep into the game unless they keep looking scummy or get caught by a PR or lie.  As long as Joseph doesn't flip, that slight pressure away from him combined with yuma's other comment about their lynch record being just so-so and fact they could play the "1st game back, I'm rusty" card would be enough to keep pressure off of you.  It's only the cop result and nearly immediate lynch and flip that makes it look bad, because the simple fact is it could have worked.

All that said, willing to vote LL today, but don't remember what the count is yet, so I'm gonna look back before I do.

there was ppe 1 on this

[Dylan32]

Also, the fact that my 3 people that I think are most likely to be scum are the ones on MiX is a point in his favor.

LL's wagon is down to 2, so if we are going to end up lynching someone, Vote: LL

[MiX]

i am so sure mix is scum, so if i had a chance, I'd fake claim a cop having guilty on him

This is weird enough for me to not feel bad over lynching town!LL to be honest.

Vote: LL

The town play is to no lynch, but there's only 1 town in this game.

[scolapasta]

The town play is to no lynch, but there's only 1 town in this game.

Only 1? You finally get me to side with you on no lynch, and then ignore me? Did we have nothing together at all??

What's the vote count?

[Swowl]

I believe that is L-1 on LL. either L-1 or L-2. Just heads up.

[MiX]

The town play is to no lynch, but there's only 1 town in this game.

Only 1? You finally get me to side with you on no lynch, and then ignore me? Did we have nothing together at all??

What's the vote count?

You're...buddying me, I don't like it.

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I believe that is L-1 on LL. either L-1 or L-2. Just heads up.

It's L-1

[Swowl]

Swan Count:

LaLight (4): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Dylan32, MiX
MiX (3): LaLight, ashersky, yuma
No Lynch (1): scolapasta

Takes 5 to Lynch.

[Swowl]

On a separate track, I asked this before, is there any scenario on which Dylan would lie, and continue to lie, about PR, and be town?

I could see maybe the lie before (similar to shraye (btw, congratulations!)), but I don't think he'd continue now with that NK. i.e. it'd be good to know if there's still a (non Blocker*) PR out there.

*non Blocker, because this one seems trivial to reveal now.

If there was a blocker, I assume they would claim. Just cuz... the likelihood they correctly blocked shot vs no shot.. probably worth it.
Take that logic and apply it to all the 1-shot possibilities that *could* exist if this was somehow a thing.
Like... they would be tunneling the absolute ballsack out of Dylan today regardless of anything. And no one is doing that. So I think probably not a concern. 

[scolapasta]

The town play is to no lynch, but there's only 1 town in this game.

Only 1? You finally get me to side with you on no lynch, and then ignore me? Did we have nothing together at all??

What's the vote count?

You're...buddying me, I don't like it.

Ha - got to love it:

Mix: "Guys, we should no lynch, it's the right town move here"
Others: "Not so sure, it's boring, yadda, yadda, yadda"
Me: "After evaluating, yeah, it's the right town move"
Mix: "I don't like it"

I mean, if it's the right town move, it's the right town move. Are you saying you didn't want others to agree with that evaluation?

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I'm not quite sure everyone else loves me. YET.

[MiX]

The town play is to no lynch, but there's only 1 town in this game.

Only 1? You finally get me to side with you on no lynch, and then ignore me? Did we have nothing together at all??

What's the vote count?

You're...buddying me, I don't like it.

Ha - got to love it:

Mix: "Guys, we should no lynch, it's the right town move here"
Others: "Not so sure, it's boring, yadda, yadda, yadda"
Me: "After evaluating, yeah, it's the right town move"
Mix: "I don't like it"

I mean, if it's the right town move, it's the right town move. Are you saying you didn't want others to agree with that evaluation?

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I'm not quite sure everyone else loves me. YET.

I'm used to everyone disagreeing with me!

[scolapasta]

The town play is to no lynch, but there's only 1 town in this game.

Only 1? You finally get me to side with you on no lynch, and then ignore me? Did we have nothing together at all??

What's the vote count?

You're...buddying me, I don't like it.

Ha - got to love it:

Mix: "Guys, we should no lynch, it's the right town move here"
Others: "Not so sure, it's boring, yadda, yadda, yadda"
Me: "After evaluating, yeah, it's the right town move"
Mix: "I don't like it"

I mean, if it's the right town move, it's the right town move. Are you saying you didn't want others to agree with that evaluation?

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I'm not quite sure everyone else loves me. YET.

I'm used to everyone disagreeing with me!

I'm just trying to "MiX" it up!

[yuma]

vote: lalight

[Swowl]

well that is hammer. GLGL

*sorry if you town LL!*

[WestCoastDidds]

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I'm not quite sure everyone else loves me. YET.

This is pretty much my MO in all things. I will hang around and hang around until I am irresistible!

[MiX]

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I'm not quite sure everyone else loves me. YET.

This is pretty much my MO in all things. I will hang around and hang around until I am irresistible!

I just realized skip read what I said wrong...but it's more polite in the way he interpreted it.

[scolapasta]

I don't love you as much as everyone else because I don't know you as well, so, sorry about forgetting about you.

I'm not quite sure everyone else loves me. YET.

This is pretty much my MO in all things. I will hang around and hang around until I am irresistible!

I just realized skip read what I said wrong...but it's more polite in the way he interpreted it.

Man, now you confuse me with someone who's not even IN THIS GAME?!?

I'd ask "where's the love" but you already answered that...

[MiX]

Friend. You overestimate how much I care about this game after LL was hammered.

Scola, skip, both start with S.

End this day so I can hide my shame.

I haven't done a VCA yet because we've been catching scum without it (lol) which is why I don't actually know who is in this game. I kept forgetting about you and Dylan (yes, even after yesterday).

Sorry.

[scolapasta]

Friend. You overestimate how much I care about this game after LL was hammered.

Scola, skip, both start with S.

End this day so I can hide my shame.

I haven't done a VCA yet because we've been catching scum without it (lol) which is why I don't actually know who is in this game. I kept forgetting about you and Dylan (yes, even after yesterday).

Sorry.

To be clear - in no way was I offended by any of this (it sometimes forget tone doesn't always come out in text messages).

Also, Messi is better than Ronaldo.

[MiX]

Friend. You overestimate how much I care about this game after LL was hammered.

Scola, skip, both start with S.

End this day so I can hide my shame.

I haven't done a VCA yet because we've been catching scum without it (lol) which is why I don't actually know who is in this game. I kept forgetting about you and Dylan (yes, even after yesterday).

Sorry.

To be clear - in no way was I offended by any of this (it sometimes forget tone doesn't always come out in text messages).

Also, Messi is better than Ronaldo.

I will NK you. For checking my personal information.

Also "sorry" means less from me than you'd think, at least like in that way, I'm sure you're cool with things.

You did go along the no lynch so that tells me what kind of person you are, and that kind of person wouldn't be offended with me forgetting about them. I think.

[WestCoastDidds]

Also, Messi is better than Ronaldo.

+1

ADK usually works in the days so I don't expect the flippity flip for awhile

[A Drowned Kernel]

Thread locked, flip in a bit

[A Drowned Kernel]

LaLight was lynched! They were a Vanilla Townie!

Final Vote Count

LaLight (5): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, Dylan32, MiX, yuma
MiX (2): LaLight, ashersky

No Lynch (1): scolapasta

With 8 alive it took 5 to lynch. Night Four begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time April 29th.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Day Five Start

No one died in the night.

Vote Count 5.0

Not Voting (7): MiX, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, yuma, ashersky, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Five begins now and ends at 8 pm forum time May 6th.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[MiX]

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I am now entertaining the idea that I'm scum and I haven't checked my scum QT.

So we lunch yuma/ash/mix and win? Is that what's happening?

Or is scola just really, REALLY noob!scum? I am so confused.

[MiX]

...well, let's move on.

Town because they would never do this: Swan, Didds, Dylan

Big brain doesn't know how QTs work: yuma, scola

Really really evil: ash, MiX

Who disagrees?

[ashersky]

vote: MiX

Just read previous days.

[MiX]

vote: MiX

Just read previous days.

If I don't NK here it's a throw.

Just because you said arguments yesterday doesn't make them correct.

I voted LaLight because they were 100% sure I was scum. Look, town can be wrong. So can you.

Don't make this mistake.

[MiX]

This game's solved from my perspective, I'm gonna say why Swan and Didds are 100% town in a bit, which means I know the 3 lynches we can do.

I can do a freebie, Dylan is town because of their claim. No context here.

Just looked at VCA, it says LaLight's obv!town lol, this is why we no lynch so that town's not divided. Obviously in retrospect a mislynch's better than nothing but that's because scum's throwing.

[MiX]

That reminds me, Vote: ash because this helps me live.

[ashersky]

Everything you say is a lie or an excuse.

The LL votes weren't good.

Your Dylan is town thing is misleading -- a hidden doctor saving lives means he's scum.

Your vote is WIFOM and self-preservationist.

If there was a list of things that are scummy, you are checking every single one.

[yuma]

vote: mix

[MiX]

Everything you say is a lie or an excuse.

The LL votes weren't good.

Your Dylan is town thing is misleading -- a hidden doctor saving lives means he's scum.

Your vote is WIFOM and self-preservationist.

If there was a list of things that are scummy, you are checking every single one.

A hidden doctor's insane and wins the game on the spot why the hell are you even considering that to be a reality.

Why do you think I didn't start the day voting?

There's no list of things people need to check to be scum, otherwise I would always be scum, but I'm not.

vote: mix

Why on earth would I skip NK and throw the game.

[MiX]

The LL votes weren't good.

Do you prefer for me to not self-pres? No, I'm not doing that. I clearly have better reads than town.

The town out of ash/yuma needs to stop tunneling and needs to see how their tunnel got this far.

[WestCoastDidds]

WTF?!

This is so weird

The previous night ended early so it had to have been a choice not to kill. But 2 nights in a row makes no sense.

So confused...

[ashersky]

A hidden doctor's insane and wins the game on the spot why the hell are you even considering that to be a reality.

Why do you think I didn't start the day voting?

There's no list of things people need to check to be scum, otherwise I would always be scum, but I'm not.

Or a hidden doctor is amazing and wants to let us catch scum on our own and is also literally laughing out loud.  You know I don't actually think there is a doctor because I am voting for you.  But your refusal to paint complete pictures and include all options is scummy because scum don't want town to think things through or completely.

I don't know why you didn't start the day voting.  Probably because you thought it would look scummy and you already have enough issues with that.

Someone could make a list.  Sounds like a fun thread.

[Swowl]

no mas votes for a moment please.
given the 2 votes on the person they are on, a fucking quick hammer today on mix would be the worst if they flip green.

[Swowl]

This game's solved from my perspective, I'm gonna say why Swan and Didds are 100% town in a bit, which means I know the 3 lynches we can do.

I can do a freebie, Dylan is town because of their claim. No context here.

Just looked at VCA, it says LaLight's obv!town lol, this is why we no lynch so that town's not divided. Obviously in retrospect a mislynch's better than nothing but that's because scum's throwing.

not asking for a mix wall - I mean feel free if you want - but i ran a pretty deep vca on LL and came to the exact opposite conclusion. so just broad strokes would be appreciated on why you think LL was obv town plz

[Swowl]

Everything you say is a lie or an excuse.

The LL votes weren't good.

Your Dylan is town thing is misleading -- a hidden doctor saving lives means he's scum.

Your vote is WIFOM and self-preservationist.

If there was a list of things that are scummy, you are checking every single one.

you're joking about the dylan thing being misleading right?

[Swowl]

If there was a list of things that are scummy, you are checking every single one.

you are checking a few off yourself their partner

[Dylan32]

Vote: yuma. At some point we will quit trying to be fancy and will actually lynch the person who throughout the game made the strongest defenses of lynched scum and has been one of the two or three people that has pushed the hardest against town.  I hope it's today.

[Swowl]

Dylan - you trust me enough at this point to entertain a plan? I would kind of require your support to make it work.

[scolapasta]

DatSwan, early on in Day 1 or Day 2, I think you said something about you being an IC (I'll look for it later if I have t0). Can you explain the reasoning?

I think right I agree with Dylan and we should lynch yuma.

Vote: yuma

I could probably go eith ash as well, mix less so.

I'm on board with Didds and Dylan as town. Waiting to hear the above, but lean Swan as well.

[scolapasta]

Oh, and I also don't het the double no nk. I mean, could there actually be a doctor?

Going back to my last post where I finally figured no lynch was a good move yesterday, I don't see how scum doesn't kill last night since we didn't. Tired now, but might redo that analysis tomorrow.

[scolapasta]

no mas votes for a moment please.
given the 2 votes on the person they are on, a fucking quick hammer today on mix would be the worst if they flip green.

Oh misread the no mas votes as only for mix. but just in case you mean for anyone:

unvote

ready to go back to yuma.

[scolapasta]

A hidden doctor's insane and wins the game on the spot why the hell are you even considering that to be a reality.

How does the is win the game on the spot?

[Swowl]

1) hidden doctor doesn't exist. If they do, they claim now. we win. if they wait one more day we do not win by GTD. there is no reason for them to of not said anything yesterday. it was a insta-win for town if they did.

2) thank you just trying to prevent quick hammers

3) I said I was MIC. I don't remember which day. It is a forum slang joke. It stands for MiX-IC. And it is based on the fact that I was the leading push for dylan when there was no reason to compltely switch any of the open wagons over to him if we were buddies combined with me stating I had switched from Dylan to Raptor (now given I did not have a chance to actually hammer raptor, but still). I mean you can argue it if you want, but I doubt I am/should be on anyone's radar at this point.

[ashersky]

The "insta-win" argument is based on Dylan being the liar.  Doctor claims, 1v1 with Dylan, if we lynch correctly we win. 

That's not the same as what either DatSwan or MiX are saying, which helps DatSwan creep up the scumminess ladder.

MiX is the last scum.  If he's not, it's got to be Dylan due to hidden doctor.

[ashersky]

1) hidden doctor doesn't exist. If they do, they claim now. we win. if they wait one more day we do not win by GTD. there is no reason for them to of not said anything yesterday. it was a insta-win for town if they did.

This seems super, super wrong to me.

A doctor claim does not insta-win.  Here are a few reasons, off the top of my head:

1) we lynch the doctor, so the game continues
2) we lynch the cop, so the game continues
3) the doctor is actually a VT

I see after writing this that your wording is not "insta-win" but just "win."  That's probably more correct, but not definitive. 

What is GTD?

[Swowl]

GTD means guaranteed (poker slang sorry)

3) VT would never claim that here
2 and 1) so only skum claims it or it is real..... soooooo dylan or claim.

why are you fighting me on this?

[ashersky]

GTD means guaranteed (poker slang sorry)

3) VT would never claim that here
2 and 1) so only skum claims it or it is real..... soooooo dylan or claim.

why are you fighting me on this?

Ah.  I was trying to find a G word to go in front of "the Doctor."

3) I might, as VT, to spite the town not lynching MiX as I've pointed out.
2 and 1) we agree, sets up a 1v1 with Dylan and a win.

My point is that we don't need the claim to win and not claiming has been keeping the game going and giving town chances to correctly lynch.  There are players that would not claim for a variety of reasons, including what I've just said, or not realizing they should, or not trusting the players who say they should and so expect the opposite to be true, trusting players who say don't claim, playing it safe.

Why are YOU fighting ME on this?

[scolapasta]

GTD means guaranteed (poker slang sorry)

3) VT would never claim that here
2 and 1) so only skum claims it or it is real..... soooooo dylan or claim.

why are you fighting me on this?

Ah.  I was trying to find a G word to go in front of "the Doctor."

3) I might, as VT, to spite the town not lynching MiX as I've pointed out.
2 and 1) we agree, sets up a 1v1 with Dylan and a win.

My point is that we don't need the claim to win and not claiming has been keeping the game going and giving town chances to correctly lynch.  There are players that would not claim for a variety of reasons, including what I've just said, or not realizing they should, or not trusting the players who say they should and so expect the opposite to be true, trusting players who say don't claim, playing it safe.

Why are YOU fighting ME on this?

this doesn't make any sense to me. UNLESS someone things Dylan could be lying AND be town, there is NO reason not for Doctor to claim.

If someone out there is doctor, they could have decided to wait yesterday, but I don't understand the why they'd wait another day. That said, not everyone has chimed in today.

And claiming out it spite? I mean, c'mon. If that's really something you'd do, I mean why shouldn't we just lynch you to remove that X-factor?

[scolapasta]

Also my lynch order has been solidified:

yuma > ash > mix  > dylan > swan > didds > scolapasta

[Swowl]

GTD means guaranteed (poker slang sorry)

3) VT would never claim that here
2 and 1) so only skum claims it or it is real..... soooooo dylan or claim.

why are you fighting me on this?

Ah.  I was trying to find a G word to go in front of "the Doctor."

3) I might, as VT, to spite the town not lynching MiX as I've pointed out.
2 and 1) we agree, sets up a 1v1 with Dylan and a win.

My point is that we don't need the claim to win and not claiming has been keeping the game going and giving town chances to correctly lynch.  There are players that would not claim for a variety of reasons, including what I've just said, or not realizing they should, or not trusting the players who say they should and so expect the opposite to be true, trusting players who say don't claim, playing it safe.

Why are YOU fighting ME on this?

this doesn't make any sense to me. UNLESS someone things Dylan could be lying AND be town, there is NO reason not for Doctor to claim.

If someone out there is doctor, they could have decided to wait yesterday, but I don't understand the why they'd wait another day. That said, not everyone has chimed in today.

And claiming out it spite? I mean, c'mon. If that's really something you'd do, I mean why shouldn't we just lynch you to remove that X-factor?

you quoted me. but are you talking to me. those are literally the points I am making.

[Swowl]

Also my lynch order has been solidified:

yuma > ash > mix  > dylan > swan > didds > scolapasta

explain my and didds order in this. in detail. you got time.

[Swowl]

GTD means guaranteed (poker slang sorry)

3) VT would never claim that here
2 and 1) so only skum claims it or it is real..... soooooo dylan or claim.

why are you fighting me on this?

Ah.  I was trying to find a G word to go in front of "the Doctor."

3) I might, as VT, to spite the town not lynching MiX as I've pointed out.
2 and 1) we agree, sets up a 1v1 with Dylan and a win.

My point is that we don't need the claim to win and not claiming has been keeping the game going and giving town chances to correctly lynch.  There are players that would not claim for a variety of reasons, including what I've just said, or not realizing they should, or not trusting the players who say they should and so expect the opposite to be true, trusting players who say don't claim, playing it safe.

Why are YOU fighting ME on this?

this doesn't make any sense to me. UNLESS someone things Dylan could be lying AND be town, there is NO reason not for Doctor to claim.

If someone out there is doctor, they could have decided to wait yesterday, but I don't understand the why they'd wait another day. That said, not everyone has chimed in today.

And claiming out it spite? I mean, c'mon. If that's really something you'd do, I mean why shouldn't we just lynch you to remove that X-factor?

you quoted me. but are you talking to me. those are literally the points I am making.

nvm you quoted ash mb

[Swowl]

Also my lynch order has been solidified:

yuma > ash > mix  > dylan > swan > didds > scolapasta

explain my and didds order in this. in detail. you got time.

wait hold on more importantly how in the hell is dylan more lynchable than me?

[scolapasta]

Yeah, quoting ash, but you caught that.

You're right on dylan - swan, that was a typo, it should've been swan > dylan.

I'm not going to explain any detail tonight, as it's 1am on a work night. But honestly I'm not sure there's much detail as this only showed order, not distance.

Here it is again, with distance, where the fewer >, the easier it would be for me to swap them.


yuma > ash >>> mix  >>>>> swan > dylan > didds >>∞>> scolapasta

Hope that makes sense.

[ashersky]

Any lynch order should not list themselves last, actually.  (There's an argument for not listing yourself at all, but I think any player who is town and believes Dylan is town should list Dylan lower than themselves.)

As for stuff not making sense to people, that's on them, I suppose.  Understanding is not required, anyway.  Just belief.

There are only two players that we should be willing to lynch right now: MiX and Dylan.

MiX because he is the last remaining scum, and Dylan because if there is a doctor, he's lying.  Those are the best explanations for the evening shenanigans.

[yuma]

Vote: yuma. At some point we will quit trying to be fancy and will actually lynch the person who throughout the game made the strongest defenses of lynched scum and has been one of the two or three people that has pushed the hardest against town.  I hope it's today.

My single and only response.

I am not trying to be fancy. I legitimately feel like I am really lost in reading people in this game. It sucks. Sorry? I think we are still going to win despite that. I actually kinda feel embarrassed how bad my reads have been this game.

I did have the strongest defenses of confirmed scum.

I have been quite strong against players that are now confirmed townie or nearly confirmed townie.

I hope it isn't today because I am selfish and want to not be out of a game and the next game probably won't start until this is finished. So that it takes a day longer than it needs to is lame, but that is just the personal gain for me.

[Swowl]

Yeah, quoting ash, but you caught that.

You're right on dylan - swan, that was a typo, it should've been swan > dylan.

I'm not going to explain any detail tonight, as it's 1am on a work night. But honestly I'm not sure there's much detail as this only showed order, not distance.

Here it is again, with distance, where the fewer >, the easier it would be for me to swap them.


yuma > ash >>> mix  >>>>> swan > dylan > didds >>∞>> scolapasta

Hope that makes sense.

ok get some sleep... and all good but then come back and explain why Dylan is more lynch able than WCD?

[yuma]

vote: ashersky

[Swowl]

Any lynch order should not list themselves last, actually.  (There's an argument for not listing yourself at all, but I think any player who is town and believes Dylan is town should list Dylan lower than themselves.)

As for stuff not making sense to people, that's on them, I suppose.  Understanding is not required, anyway.  Just belief.

There are only two players that we should be willing to lynch right now: MiX and Dylan.

MiX because he is the last remaining scum, and Dylan because if there is a doctor, he's lying.  Those are the best explanations for the evening shenanigans.

... who are you and what have you done with Ashersky?

[ashersky]

We have four votes on three players.  That is a clear indication of where this game is -- lost and meandering.

I feel like players aren't as calm as they can be.  Assuming scum kills again, we still have two mislynches before 3-player LYLO.  And by that point, if it were to actually get there, it would be pretty clear who is bad.

If the doctor keeps protecting, or MiX keeps no killing for some crazy reason (he seems wed to this idea), we have three mislynches (6, 5, 4 alive after each) before we have to even worry about another kill.  And a 4 alive, NL is the right answer, if kills started up. 

So a minimum of two mislynches for free, even three.  MiX knows the game is hopeless, hence the odd gambit.

[ashersky]

vote: ashersky

E tu Brute?

[ashersky]

I'm at L-2, MiX at 1 vote, yuma at 1 vote.

[yuma]

vote: ashersky

E tu Brute?

Oh man. That is super embarrasing. I didn't mean to post that...

Awkward. Like super awkward. Here let me fix that...

vote: MIX

[Swowl]

if I am forced to every lynch between MiX and Ash my mind is made on who it is. I will not be lynching either today.

[yuma]

Like I had posted the vote along with some text of why I wanted to go with voting ashersky, but then as a I was typing it I realized that man.... that was a lame reason for voting... and erased the text and then I guess forgot what I was doing and... hit post w/o also erasing the vote.

Anyways, the reason I was going to vote for ashersky is that I am more afraid of him being scum than actually thinking he is scum. If he is scum, he is fooling me. And he could do that. He has done it before (so bravo). And voting someone because you fear their play is kinda lame and makes the game unfun for players that are perceived (or actually are) good.

So I am not voting for ashersky right now. That might change if it needs to, but not right now.

[Dylan32]

..

There are only two players that we should be willing to lynch right now: MiX and Dylan.

MiX because he is the last remaining scum, and Dylan because if there is a doctor, he's lying.  Those are the best explanations for the evening shenanigans.

Ok, we need to lay this to rest right now. If anyone has a town PR besides UB, claim it now so town can win. If scum wants to counterclaim to get me lynched, feel free to do that as well haha.

All remaining players need to commit to lynching anyone who tries to counter claim me after this game day before lynching me, because the only reason anyone would put off the cc at this point is to try to lynch me at LYLO, which would only give scum the win. So town, counterclaim me today if you can, otherwise, you get lynched first.  I want everyone to say whether or not they’ll agree to that.  Functionally, all agreeing to this plan does is eliminate a potential tactic from scum’s arsenal for how to play out LYLO, so for town there is no reason to not agree, unless you buy Ash’s “The hidden doctor is amazing and just wants town to figure it out for themselves” comment.

I don’t know of anyone on f.ds that would do this, but in this situation, I would go so far as to say that if I were scum and a town PR waited until after this game day to cc, it would be such an anti-town play that I would probably never join a game with that person again.  The possibility of being on the same town team as that person would be so not fun worrying about if they are scum or just willfully anti-town town, so I would rather just not be in the same game.  Now, fortunately, I know this isn’t going to happen, so my sleepy-because-still-awake-way-after-bedtime rant is basically meaningless, but if it was possible, I would mean it.

Also, a page ago, Ash, you said you don’t believe there is a doctor, hence your vote on MiX. However you are pretty much the only person who is seriously trying to keep open the possibility I’m lying when all evidence (except for the lack of NKs which has other simpler explanations than an unclaimed doctor) is to the contrary.  I especially want to know if you would be on board with both A) lynching me first today if I’m counterclaimed, and B) lynching the other person first if they wait until a later game day, because if anyone in the game has been possibly dropping breadcrumbs or trying to set up that play or keep it alive as an option for scum, it’s been you.

[Dylan32]

Vote: yuma. At some point we will quit trying to be fancy and will actually lynch the person who throughout the game made the strongest defenses of lynched scum and has been one of the two or three people that has pushed the hardest against town.  I hope it's today.

My single and only response.

I am not trying to be fancy. I legitimately feel like I am really lost in reading people in this game. It sucks. Sorry? I think we are still going to win despite that. I actually kinda feel embarrassed how bad my reads have been this game.

I did have the strongest defenses of confirmed scum.

I have been quite strong against players that are now confirmed townie or nearly confirmed townie.

I hope it isn't today because I am selfish and want to not be out of a game and the next game probably won't start until this is finished. So that it takes a day longer than it needs to is lame, but that is just the personal gain for me.

If you’re town, I feel you and remember having games like that, and I’m sorry. But I’m not saying you’re trying to be fancy, the rest of town is. Like you’re interactions with both dead scum D2 are the kind of interactions you dream of finding when scumhunting, and yet here they are and it feels like no one is even taking them seriously, instead obsessing over the Ash/MiX debates.  In a game where of several different options, Occam’s Razor has held (person who scummily didn’t hammer the scummy D1 wagon was simply scum not hammering scum, not some unfortunately misplay or excuse from town), it seems at least likely enough to warrant a lynch one of the next 2 days (preferably earlier than later) in order to at the very least rule out the most obvious and simplest explanation for who the partner is.

[Dylan32]

Like your* interactions... stupid autocorrect

[MiX]

This game's solved from my perspective, I'm gonna say why Swan and Didds are 100% town in a bit, which means I know the 3 lynches we can do.

I can do a freebie, Dylan is town because of their claim. No context here.

Just looked at VCA, it says LaLight's obv!town lol, this is why we no lynch so that town's not divided. Obviously in retrospect a mislynch's better than nothing but that's because scum's throwing.

not asking for a mix wall - I mean feel free if you want - but i ran a pretty deep vca on LL and came to the exact opposite conclusion. so just broad strokes would be appreciated on why you think LL was obv town plz

LaLight was the scum pushed wagon. It's not enough to clear them but, yeah. Joseph's flippy floppy on LaLight plus his vote on them kinda says LL was town. Not like I think we shouldn't had lynched LL, just thinking there were better things to do, not that it matters.

The "insta-win" argument is based on Dylan being the liar.  Doctor claims, 1v1 with Dylan, if we lynch correctly we win. 

That's not the same as what either DatSwan or MiX are saying, which helps DatSwan creep up the scumminess ladder.

MiX is the last scum.  If he's not, it's got to be Dylan due to hidden doctor.

If we lynch incorrectly we also win the 1v1. God how can you not know your own setup.

1) hidden doctor doesn't exist. If they do, they claim now. we win. if they wait one more day we do not win by GTD. there is no reason for them to of not said anything yesterday. it was a insta-win for town if they did.

This seems super, super wrong to me.

A doctor claim does not insta-win.  Here are a few reasons, off the top of my head:

1) we lynch the doctor, so the game continues
2) we lynch the cop, so the game continues
3) the doctor is actually a VT

I see after writing this that your wording is not "insta-win" but just "win."  That's probably more correct, but not definitive. 

What is GTD?

This is a scumslip because you're not like this as town.

1) Then we lynch the "cop" and win
2) Then we lynch the "doc" and win
3) Then they played terribly, why on earth would anyone cc the claimed cop without a reason

This is just the biggest stretch in mafia history. If there IS a doc, it's most likely Dylan anyway.

So a minimum of two mislynches for free, even three.  MiX knows the game is hopeless, hence the odd gambit.

This game is indeed hopeless if I don't NK twice in a row. So why the hell would I do that?

[MiX]

Something I thought about in the IRL night, and I hope Dylan agrees with this:

Dylan is an IC, so they'll be the NK. When there's 5 people alive, the UB should claim, since that's the last time the UB can claim and not be cc'd. But given we have an IC alive, why wait?

Why not have the UB claim right now? That narrows down the lynch pool to 5 people, and we can lynch 3 of them, so that's already really high odds of winning without any reads.

Dylan, do you agree?

[MiX]

Vote: yuma. At some point we will quit trying to be fancy and will actually lynch the person who throughout the game made the strongest defenses of lynched scum and has been one of the two or three people that has pushed the hardest against town.  I hope it's today.

My single and only response.

I am not trying to be fancy. I legitimately feel like I am really lost in reading people in this game. It sucks. Sorry? I think we are still going to win despite that. I actually kinda feel embarrassed how bad my reads have been this game.

I did have the strongest defenses of confirmed scum.

I have been quite strong against players that are now confirmed townie or nearly confirmed townie.

I hope it isn't today because I am selfish and want to not be out of a game and the next game probably won't start until this is finished. So that it takes a day longer than it needs to is lame, but that is just the personal gain for me.

If you’re town, I feel you and remember having games like that, and I’m sorry. But I’m not saying you’re trying to be fancy, the rest of town is. Like you’re interactions with both dead scum D2 are the kind of interactions you dream of finding when scumhunting, and yet here they are and it feels like no one is even taking them seriously, instead obsessing over the Ash/MiX debates.  In a game where of several different options, Occam’s Razor has held (person who scummily didn’t hammer the scummy D1 wagon was simply scum not hammering scum, not some unfortunately misplay or excuse from town), it seems at least likely enough to warrant a lynch one of the next 2 days (preferably earlier than later) in order to at the very least rule out the most obvious and simplest explanation for who the partner is.

Going on this, yuma can be scum and all, but they haven't actually protected scum. I don't think they did a good effort saving Joseph D1, and in the other days he wasn't pushing very hard on town. It's definitely possible yuma just has terrible reads.

Also I'm positive ash is scum because he's coming up with these terrible setup analysis which are the only way anyone can reason themselves into no NK. That and he's tunneled me from like D3.

[WestCoastDidds]

All remaining players need to commit to lynching anyone who tries to counter claim me after this game day before lynching me, because the only reason anyone would put off the cc at this point is to try to lynch me at LYLO, which would only give scum the win. So town, counterclaim me today if you can, otherwise, you get lynched first.  I want everyone to say whether or not they’ll agree to that.  Functionally, all agreeing to this plan does is eliminate a potential tactic from scum’s arsenal for how to play out LYLO, so for town there is no reason to not agree, unless you buy Ash’s “The hidden doctor is amazing and just wants town to figure it out for themselves” comment.

I’ll commit to that.

[ashersky]

Phone posting

@dylan

If anyone claimed, I would lynch them first every time.  Then, if they were telling the truth, I’d push to lynch MiX, then you.

Why?  If you pulled this off as scum, you deserve to last to the end.

[MiX]

Phone posting

@dylan

If anyone claimed, I would lynch them first every time.  Then, if they were telling the truth, I’d push to lynch MiX, then you.

Why?  If you pulled this off as scum, you deserve to last to the end.

I agree and commit to this plan...if they claim today, which isn't part of dylan's thing. Although I am willing to give scum!Dylan the win because they did an insane gambit and it worked.

[ashersky]

Look, here’s the deal — if we can all just lynch MiX here, we win.

If I’m wrong, I will open the next day with a vote on myself and literally no other words if that will satisfy everyone.  Then you still have a day or two to find scum.

[ashersky]

Phone posting

@dylan

If anyone claimed, I would lynch them first every time.  Then, if they were telling the truth, I’d push to lynch MiX, then you.

Why?  If you pulled this off as scum, you deserve to last to the end.

I agree and commit to this plan...if they claim today, which isn't part of dylan's thing. Although I am willing to give scum!Dylan the win because they did an insane gambit and it worked.

Man, he definitely deserves the win if he’s lying. Especially given his circumstances loses partners so early.

[MiX]

Look, here’s the deal — if we can all just lynch MiX here, we win.

If I’m wrong, I will open the next day with a vote on myself and literally no other words if that will satisfy everyone.  Then you still have a day or two to find scum.

I would offer you the same plan but reverse, except I kinda wanna win this game, which you don't seem interested in.

Face it, you just want to lynch me to see if you're right or wrong.

Phone posting

@dylan

If anyone claimed, I would lynch them first every time.  Then, if they were telling the truth, I’d push to lynch MiX, then you.

Why?  If you pulled this off as scum, you deserve to last to the end.

I agree and commit to this plan...if they claim today, which isn't part of dylan's thing. Although I am willing to give scum!Dylan the win because they did an insane gambit and it worked.

Man, he definitely deserves the win if he’s lying. Especially given his circumstances loses partners so early.

True. But I also think I should be playing to win.

[ashersky]

I mean, of course I want to see that I’m right.  I do feel strongly that I’m not only tunneling — I built a case based on what I’ve read, what I expect you would be capable of/think of doing as the lone remaining scum in a hopeless game, trying to find some way to keep things interesting and a sliver of hope alive.

I just want to crush that sliver.  Sorry.

If I was wrong, I think you’d just give in and let it happen, knowing we’d figure it out anyway, and you’d still get the win posthumously.

If you don’t want the auto self vote in exchange, how about a promise that I do everything in my ability to avenge the wrongness by finding the bad guy and hammering in your honor?

[MiX]

I mean, of course I want to see that I’m right.  I do feel strongly that I’m not only tunneling — I built a case based on what I’ve read, what I expect you would be capable of/think of doing as the lone remaining scum in a hopeless game, trying to find some way to keep things interesting and a sliver of hope alive.

I just want to crush that sliver.  Sorry.

If I was wrong, I think you’d just give in and let it happen, knowing we’d figure it out anyway, and you’d still get the win posthumously.

If you don’t want the auto self vote in exchange, how about a promise that I do everything in my ability to avenge the wrongness by finding the bad guy and hammering in your honor?

That's a good promise, but I wanted to do that myself!

How about this, let's scumhunt outside us two, then we lynch one of us and the other listens to the dead town. Does that sound good?

Because I can say a bunch of things about your (cayvie)'s D1, but it's gotten to the point where nothing influences my read on you other than your tunnel.

[MiX]

Oh, there's a caveat: I wanted to go ISO everyone after the UB claim, if we're doing it.

So I'd like for you to claim if you are/are not now.

I'm not UB because I self-pres'd on LL which I had no need to as UB.

[scolapasta]

Yeah, quoting ash, but you caught that.

You're right on dylan - swan, that was a typo, it should've been swan > dylan.

I'm not going to explain any detail tonight, as it's 1am on a work night. But honestly I'm not sure there's much detail as this only showed order, not distance.

Here it is again, with distance, where the fewer >, the easier it would be for me to swap them.


yuma > ash >>> mix  >>>>> swan > dylan > didds >>∞>> scolapasta

Hope that makes sense.

ok get some sleep... and all good but then come back and explain why Dylan is more lynch able than WCD?

OK, I can remove my self from the list of course.

Dylan was greater than didds, only because of the two no nks leaving a small possibility that there is a doctor.

I am happy with plan that doctor claim now, so if that doesn't happen, I am happy to switch them in order and consider Dylan IC.

The main reason I have Didds as almost IC is that she's lynched both mafia, while at the same time not posting much. i.e. I could imagine a plan where mafia gets together and says ok, let's actively work to lynch two of us, with the third person looking very towny. But for that to work, that person needs to be very active and pushing those. i.e Swan. That said, I currently don't think that happened, just that it's a possibility. But not with low activity.

So does anyone suspect anything of Didds? Of not, and we can agree we have two (almost) ICs with her and Dylan. I'd say they'd both be night targets except for this weirdness with no NKs.

[MiX]

If Didds is scum, she would have to simultaneously bus the crap out both scum D1 and not NK twice out of her own volition.

That is to say, I'm scared. But I don't want to believe it can be her.

Scola, what do you think of the UB claim?

[scolapasta]

Good question. I think I lean towards them claiming today? But I can see an argument for them waiting until "tomorrow".

Obv with 3 left, it's too late.

Unrelated, I am curious to hear what DatSwan's plan for Dylan and Didds is? He seems to agree with me that Dylan and Didds re basically IC, so if he and I trust each other, we could have a bloc of 4 there.

[WestCoastDidds]

If Didds is scum, she would have to simultaneously bus the crap out both scum D1 and not NK twice out of her own volition.

That is to say, I'm scared. But I don't want to believe it can be her.

Scola, what do you think of the UB claim?

Yeah, I’m not made like that

[scolapasta]

If Didds is scum, she would have to simultaneously bus the crap out both scum D1 and not NK twice out of her own volition.

That is to say, I'm scared. But I don't want to believe it can be her.

Scola, what do you think of the UB claim?

Yeah, I’m not made like that

Which is why I have you below Dylan (but not for long; doesn't seem like a Doc claim is coming).

[yuma]

Vote: yuma. At some point we will quit trying to be fancy and will actually lynch the person who throughout the game made the strongest defenses of lynched scum and has been one of the two or three people that has pushed the hardest against town.  I hope it's today.

My single and only response.

I am not trying to be fancy. I legitimately feel like I am really lost in reading people in this game. It sucks. Sorry? I think we are still going to win despite that. I actually kinda feel embarrassed how bad my reads have been this game.

I did have the strongest defenses of confirmed scum.

I have been quite strong against players that are now confirmed townie or nearly confirmed townie.

I hope it isn't today because I am selfish and want to not be out of a game and the next game probably won't start until this is finished. So that it takes a day longer than it needs to is lame, but that is just the personal gain for me.

If you’re town, I feel you and remember having games like that, and I’m sorry. But I’m not saying you’re trying to be fancy, the rest of town is. Like you’re interactions with both dead scum D2 are the kind of interactions you dream of finding when scumhunting, and yet here they are and it feels like no one is even taking them seriously, instead obsessing over the Ash/MiX debates.  In a game where of several different options, Occam’s Razor has held (person who scummily didn’t hammer the scummy D1 wagon was simply scum not hammering scum, not some unfortunately misplay or excuse from town), it seems at least likely enough to warrant a lynch one of the next 2 days (preferably earlier than later) in order to at the very least rule out the most obvious and simplest explanation for who the partner is.

Totally

[yuma]

So I went to look back at my PM to make sure I am town.

Just in case I had completely missed that I am scum and hadn't realized it and was messing everything up. That would be embarrassing. But I am town.

[yuma]

Oh, there's a caveat: I wanted to go ISO everyone after the UB claim, if we're doing it.

So I'd like for you to claim if you are/are not now.

I'm not UB because I self-pres'd on LL which I had no need to as UB.

You already claimed you weren't right? So did I.

[MiX]

So I went to look back at my PM to make sure I am town.

Just in case I had completely missed that I am scum and hadn't realized it and was messing everything up. That would be embarrassing. But I am town.

You have no idea how many times I did this this game.

Does the green text hide a link to the scum QT? Does "Vanilla Town" (or w/e it says not quoting it) mean I'm a goon?

Can I bus without knowing my partners?

Oh, there's a caveat: I wanted to go ISO everyone after the UB claim, if we're doing it.

So I'd like for you to claim if you are/are not now.

I'm not UB because I self-pres'd on LL which I had no need to as UB.

You already claimed you weren't right? So did I.

If you're talking about D3, the UB was meant to claim VT there.

[scolapasta]

So things I'm generally waiting for at this point:

More on DatSwan's plan
More thoughts from the mostly quiet Didds

Barring those, I'm still up for an either yuma or ash lynch.

[WestCoastDidds]

So things I'm generally waiting for at this point:

More on DatSwan's plan
More thoughts from the mostly quiet Didds

Barring those, I'm still up for an either yuma or ash lynch.

I don’t know that I have additional thoughts, although I can articulate some of the things I agree with. (It’s also hysterical that I’m “quiet Didds” because in any context that is patently false!)

I agree that you, Swan, Dylan, and I can act as a block. Absent some new information (we have seen Swan yet today) lynch MiX, Ash, and Yuma in some order. (Ash has built a robust case on MiX so it would be easy enough to test his theory.)

[scolapasta]

What I like about this idea is that with a 4 person bloc, we'll have the majority on each of the 3 days, even if we get NK each night.

The danger of course is if one of us the remaining mafia.

[Dylan32]

So things I'm generally waiting for at this point:

More on DatSwan's plan
More thoughts from the mostly quiet Didds

Barring those, I'm still up for an either yuma or ash lynch.

I don’t know that I have additional thoughts, although I can articulate some of the things I agree with. (It’s also hysterical that I’m “quiet Didds” because in any context that is patently false!)

I agree that you, Swan, Dylan, and I can act as a block. Absent some new information (we have seen Swan yet today) lynch MiX, Ash, and Yuma in some order. (Ash has built a robust case on MiX so it would be easy enough to test his theory.)

Swan talked early this day.  Also said they wouldn't really be looking to vote for either Ash or MiX today, but had made up their mind which they would choose if they had to choose one first.

So I'm starting to second guess myself a little. Like what are the odds Ash vs MiX is town v town, and Yuma has genuinely just had a not-great town game at the same time? Of the currently discussed town block, there is one person I'm a bit worried about, even though I've pretty much thought they were towny the whole game, but I'm trying to decide if it's worth really digging into or just going with the obvious and tipping the hat if they've actually managed to look this towny as scum...

[Swowl]

my plan no longer matters. it essentially is what is being talked about already. Now that mix has claimed not UB it no longer holds any merit. womp womp.

[Swowl]

my plan no longer matters. it essentially is what is being talked about already. Now that mix has claimed not UB it no longer holds any merit. womp womp.

oh but essentially, the end result was to iso *not* ub out of the ash/mix duo

[MiX]

my plan no longer matters. it essentially is what is being talked about already. Now that mix has claimed not UB it no longer holds any merit. womp womp.

oh but essentially, the end result was to iso *not* ub out of the ash/mix duo

What do you think about an UB massclaim?

[Swowl]

I cant decide.
The approach I had in mind was more to isolate pools of people (or possible pairs) and choose one to have claim. But the pairing was based soley on my personal bias of my reads.

Mass claim UB may be something that can work today. but for not speaking about them reasons... if we do it we should wait a smig.

[MiX]

I cant decide.
The approach I had in mind was more to isolate pools of people (or possible pairs) and choose one to have claim. But the pairing was based soley on my personal bias of my reads.

Mass claim UB may be something that can work today. but for not speaking about them reasons... if we do it we should wait a smig.

Boooo I wanted someone else to be UB.

Whatever, we still win.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 5.1

MiX (2): ashersky, yuma
ashersky (1): MiX
yuma (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (3): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Five begins ends at 8 pm forum time May 6th. (Fixed a mod error with the deadline, I had the wrong time)

[Swowl]

I cant decide.
The approach I had in mind was more to isolate pools of people (or possible pairs) and choose one to have claim. But the pairing was based soley on my personal bias of my reads.

Mass claim UB may be something that can work today. but for not speaking about them reasons... if we do it we should wait a smig.

Boooo I wanted someone else to be UB.

Whatever, we still win.

wanna make super super super clear that I am in no way shape or form claiming UB - I have already claimed VT multiple times and that is what I am.

If my wording insinuated otherwise it was un intentional.

[MiX]

I cant decide.
The approach I had in mind was more to isolate pools of people (or possible pairs) and choose one to have claim. But the pairing was based soley on my personal bias of my reads.

Mass claim UB may be something that can work today. but for not speaking about them reasons... if we do it we should wait a smig.

Boooo I wanted someone else to be UB.

Whatever, we still win.

wanna make super super super clear that I am in no way shape or form claiming UB - I have already claimed VT multiple times and that is what I am.

If my wording insinuated otherwise it was un intentional.

I was joking and/or I realized that shortly after.

I just want to stop thinking everyone other than you and Dylan is scum. It's driving me insane.

I think yuma is town and Didds is scum based on their votes. Does that tell you my level of insanity?

[scolapasta]

So, if the 4 I proposed as a block like that idea - who do we lynch?

Swan seems to not want Mix or Ash, though I don't fully follow why. That leaves yuma.

(of course, I don't know if we've gotten buy in from dylan or swan on this fully).

[WestCoastDidds]

So, if the 4 I proposed as a block like that idea - who do we lynch?

Swan seems to not want Mix or Ash, though I don't fully follow why. That leaves yuma.

(of course, I don't know if we've gotten buy in from dylan or swan on this fully).

I'm okay with any of them, especially if someone has a strong opinion. Ash's case on Mix is more comprehensive than anything anyone else has created, so that's a fine idea by me, too.

[MiX]

So, if the 4 I proposed as a block like that idea - who do we lynch?

Swan seems to not want Mix or Ash, though I don't fully follow why. That leaves yuma.

(of course, I don't know if we've gotten buy in from dylan or swan on this fully).

I'm okay with any of them, especially if someone has a strong opinion. Ash's case on Mix is more comprehensive than anything anyone else has created, so that's a fine idea by me, too.

Can...we...lynch...you...?

I can't think properly anymore.

So, if the 4 I proposed as a block like that idea - who do we lynch?

Swan seems to not want Mix or Ash, though I don't fully follow why. That leaves yuma.

(of course, I don't know if we've gotten buy in from dylan or swan on this fully).

If there's a block of 4, the lynch order doesn't matter, you lynch the 3 outside of it.

[scolapasta]

Sure, but I'm not convinced the block will hold. so order matters some.

But generally, yeah.

[MiX]

Sure, but I'm not convinced the block will hold. so order matters some.

But generally, yeah.

Why have scum on the block?

My suggestion is Dylan/Swan/UB and then decide why I'm the town outside the block.

Me or any town, really. If you get it right, you win!

[scolapasta]

I might have the idea of a plan forming in my head. But need to think on it.

I'll get back with it (or that I've decided no good) some time tonight.

[WestCoastDidds]

Can...we...lynch...you...?

I can't think properly anymore.

Oh, MiX. Have you been drinking again? Or just sleep deprived?

[MiX]

Can...we...lynch...you...?

I can't think properly anymore.

Oh, MiX. Have you been drinking again? Or just sleep deprived?

Actually no, I'm sanely insane now. Kinda coming up with reasons to not lynch ash, and the main one is you or scola can be scum.

Specifically the times you scumread raptor D1 are mind boggling. Also the weird things going on with Joseph, it tickles my scummy bone.

[WestCoastDidds]

Mix really wants to be in the block!

[MiX]

Mix really wants to be in the block!

No, if I'm on the block then town has made a terrible mistake. I just want to live forever.

Stop me from posting please.

[MiX]

Mix really wants to be in the block!

No, if I'm on the block then town has made a terrible mistake. I just want to live forever.

Stop me from posting please.

To clarify, I think you only need 3 people on the block. If you have 4, you win, so it's not really a "block" as it is a win condition.

[WestCoastDidds]

But more seriously, between my votes on the first three days, and my general approach to play, I am high on most folks not-scum list.

Even you said that the lack of NK isn't in line with my ethos. Pretty much if its next level, its not me....

[scolapasta]

But more seriously, between my votes on the first three days, and my general approach to play, I am high on most folks not-scum list.

Even you said that the lack of NK isn't in line with my ethos. Pretty much if its next level, its not me....

See this is where my inexperience with this group comes in... from what I know, this feels true. But could you pull off some Keyser Sose level play?

[scolapasta]

OK, I can't decide on my own if the plan is helpful or not, so I'll just say and you guys can opine.

Basically, it's what Swan was saying, instead of pairs, we have two groups. So we have this block I've proposed with 1+ IC in it currently, and then the other three. SO if UB is one of those 3, they should claim.

Since we're leaning towards those three as are three lynches, this allows us to save one lynch if we're wrong.

And if no claim, we then know UB is in the block, and we at least learn that 2+ are IC.

Anyway, how does that sound?

[MiX]

OK, I can't decide on my own if the plan is helpful or not, so I'll just say and you guys can opine.

Basically, it's what Swan was saying, instead of pairs, we have two groups. So we have this block I've proposed with 1+ IC in it currently, and then the other three. SO if UB is one of those 3, they should claim.

Since we're leaning towards those three as are three lynches, this allows us to save one lynch if we're wrong.

And if no claim, we then know UB is in the block, and we at least learn that 2+ are IC.

Anyway, how does that sound?

I see no reason not to have the UB claim regardless of groups.

[scolapasta]

BTW, I found the IC quote. It was actually MiX about you (see below). I'll admin I didn't quite understand this.

It is
Vote: Joseph

If they Flip skum
Vote: Raptor

And then paths and paths and paths.

I have bunch more fun Princess bride stuff to say but I’m on phone and it’s raptors birthday so we are gonna start virtual party soon.

But it is 100% Joseph today

Right. Vote: Joseph


Just to spell it out. Raptor is only skummy if Joseph is skum. So Joseph first, or at thre bare damn minimum Joseph before raptor.

Towntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntowntown.

Dude....vote: Raptor

I think he knew exactly what he was doing

Again if he knew what he was doing then we Lynch joseph first to verify. If Joseph by some freezing miracle is town, raptor don’t look too bad.

It's not as perfect as you're saying but this is what I thought of all night so uh town thinking is town, everyone say hi to Swan the new IC. Hi Swan!

[scolapasta]

OK, I can't decide on my own if the plan is helpful or not, so I'll just say and you guys can opine.

Basically, it's what Swan was saying, instead of pairs, we have two groups. So we have this block I've proposed with 1+ IC in it currently, and then the other three. SO if UB is one of those 3, they should claim.

Since we're leaning towards those three as are three lynches, this allows us to save one lynch if we're wrong.

And if no claim, we then know UB is in the block, and we at least learn that 2+ are IC.

Anyway, how does that sound?

I see no reason not to have the UB claim regardless of groups.

Doesn't that just scum a target?

[MiX]

When Swan said he was a "MiX-IC", you have to wonder why it's called that. Well, you found the answer.

OK, I can't decide on my own if the plan is helpful or not, so I'll just say and you guys can opine.

Basically, it's what Swan was saying, instead of pairs, we have two groups. So we have this block I've proposed with 1+ IC in it currently, and then the other three. SO if UB is one of those 3, they should claim.

Since we're leaning towards those three as are three lynches, this allows us to save one lynch if we're wrong.

And if no claim, we then know UB is in the block, and we at least learn that 2+ are IC.

Anyway, how does that sound?

I see no reason not to have the UB claim regardless of groups.

Doesn't that just scum a target?

Yes, but they already have a target: Dylan.

[WestCoastDidds]

But more seriously, between my votes on the first three days, and my general approach to play, I am high on most folks not-scum list.

Even you said that the lack of NK isn't in line with my ethos. Pretty much if its next level, its not me....

See this is where my inexperience with this group comes in... from what I know, this feels true. But could you pull off some Keyser Sose level play?

No, I cannot. One day, maybe, but that day is not in the last week of remote classes before final exams, and while playing too many mafia games simultaneously.  Plus I am still relatively new and had never even heard of mafia (except the organized crime kind) before I started playing so I have gone from the greenest green newb to regular player, but only just barely. And I was totally on tilt about my complete lack of competence for losing the game in Hunger Games for a couple of weeks, and those weeks are part of this game span, too.

[scolapasta]

But more seriously, between my votes on the first three days, and my general approach to play, I am high on most folks not-scum list.

Even you said that the lack of NK isn't in line with my ethos. Pretty much if its next level, its not me....

See this is where my inexperience with this group comes in... from what I know, this feels true. But could you pull off some Keyser Sose level play?

No, I cannot. One day, maybe, but that day is not in the last week of remote classes before final exams, and while playing too many mafia games simultaneously.  Plus I am still relatively new and had never even heard of mafia (except the organized crime kind) before I started playing so I have gone from the greenest green newb to regular player, but only just barely. And I was totally on tilt about my complete lack of competence for losing the game in Hunger Games for a couple of weeks, and those weeks are part of this game span, too.

I do believe this - you saw my list and you were at the bottom.

What do you think of Swan? That's my only concern with the lynch "yuma, ash, mix plan". I imagine they'll NK Dylan and you next (though still don't get the no NK either night, especially last night!).

[scolapasta]

you know, whta I think I'm ready to vote.

vote: yuma

[Swowl]

So, if the 4 I proposed as a block like that idea - who do we lynch?

Swan seems to not want Mix or Ash, though I don't fully follow why. That leaves yuma.

(of course, I don't know if we've gotten buy in from dylan or swan on this fully).

I have a reason I promise. And i am pretty sure it is a good one.

[scolapasta]

So are you on team lynch yuma, then?

[scolapasta]

And I get you won't say reason now, but when do we get to hear it?

[Swowl]

oh for sure. just not now.

and yes. Yuma is my choice for today. UB should not claim. we should wait for yuma to check in to ensure they are not UB, but then we should lynch yuma.

Tomorrow we should claim UB.

[Swowl]

those that have not already should read Day 3 over again.

[Swowl]

When Swan said he was a "MiX-IC", you have to wonder why it's called that. Well, you found the answer.

OK, I can't decide on my own if the plan is helpful or not, so I'll just say and you guys can opine.

Basically, it's what Swan was saying, instead of pairs, we have two groups. So we have this block I've proposed with 1+ IC in it currently, and then the other three. SO if UB is one of those 3, they should claim.

Since we're leaning towards those three as are three lynches, this allows us to save one lynch if we're wrong.

And if no claim, we then know UB is in the block, and we at least learn that 2+ are IC.

Anyway, how does that sound?

I see no reason not to have the UB claim regardless of groups.

Doesn't that just scum a target?

Yes, but they already have a target: Dylan.

I am so lost on this I don't even know if you are backing me as MIC or not lol

[yuma]

At times like this I normally like to give my reads to help direct town some what once I flip town. But my reads have been horrible so I don't really feel like they would be useful anyway.

But I really do think ash is town and have a feeling that he will be a mislynch after me, which I would be more concerned about if not for the NKs, but that does help town have some wiggle room. After that I feel MIX but understand that it might not happen, especially if ash and I are dead. But maybe it isn't MiX and someone else hiding well but not really sure what the overarching strategy would be here, maybe just having fun and screwing around.

Actually that might be the most logical argument to use against me. Whoever is doing this is probably having fun as mafia, even though they are going to likely lose. But it isn't me. I have had fun, but not that much fun.

[WestCoastDidds]

I do believe this - you saw my list and you were at the bottom.

What do you think of Swan? That's my only concern with the lynch "yuma, ash, mix plan". I imagine they'll NK Dylan and you next (though still don't get the no NK either night, especially last night!).

Swan is one of my favorite favorites. I get the way he thinks and I follow his train of thought even when it’s convoluted. In this game, I trust him completely. I even think it’s funny that he is using MIC to both embrace and poke fun at Mix’s liberal use of IC characterizations.

I feel like the block is solidly town.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ready to vote for Yuma when you say so, Swowl.

[yuma]

Ready to vote for Yuma when you say so, Swowl.

Say no!

[yuma]

Also interestingly I have just noticed that ash hasn't given a conclusive opinion on me.

It is implicated that he is thinking I am townier than MiX by voting there, but after his stance on MiX hasn't really said anything. Which actually isn't that weird at all.

[yuma]

oh for sure. just not now.

and yes. Yuma is my choice for today. UB should not claim. we should wait for yuma to check in to ensure they are not UB, but then we should lynch yuma.

Tomorrow we should claim UB.

Oh and clearly I am not UB. I have claimed VT about 5 times now.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ready to vote for Yuma when you say so, Swowl.

Say no!

I find this charming!

[MiX]

Also interestingly I have just noticed that ash hasn't given a conclusive opinion on me.

It is implicated that he is thinking I am townier than MiX by voting there, but after his stance on MiX hasn't really said anything. Which actually isn't that weird at all.

It says he's scum.

[scolapasta]

unvote

Need some time to think and explain a tiny bit more.

[scolapasta]

Question, when you guys want to reread someone, is there an easy way? I get you can read someone's posts, but with several simultaneous games going on, that doesn't help much. Is there a way to just filter from this thread?

[yuma]

Question, when you guys want to reread someone, is there an easy way? I get you can read someone's posts, but with several simultaneous games going on, that doesn't help much. Is there a way to just filter from this thread?

Go to all and then search for something unique in the person's profile like posts: 695 for me

[yuma]

I just added a user name to my profile so searching "name: yuma" will be easier than remembering my post number, which could change.

[ashersky]

Also interestingly I have just noticed that ash hasn't given a conclusive opinion on me.

It is implicated that he is thinking I am townier than MiX by voting there, but after his stance on MiX hasn't really said anything. Which actually isn't that weird at all.

I've really not wanted to look at you because feelz and who wants to alienate someone who gets you?

It's not like I haven't seen the points/cases put forth by others about your play -- but at this point you are just in the "not MiX, not claimed" pool.  And in the scola/WCD/Datswan/Yuma pool, man, that's a tough pool to rank.

[ashersky]

How about this, let's scumhunt outside us two, then we lynch one of us and the other listens to the dead town. Does that sound good?

I can get on this train, I think.  There is definitely something to the burn out issue we are probably both feeling.

If there's a lynch soon, we can just continue to reread during the night.

How about this?  Let's assign some ISO work from the "not us, not claimant" pool:

ash will ISO scolapasta
MiX will ISO DatSwan

And we can post results.  What do you think?

[MiX]

Does it have to be Swan? I was doing yuma.

[scolapasta]

OK, so I've been reading Swan, trying to find evidence that he in facy is the Keyser Sose. And man, if he is, well done. I'm not all the way through, but rereading I'm mostly convinced he's town.

But also rereading details on set up, I just realized - I've been assuming Dylan is IC because no CC. But there doesn't
to be, right? There could be no town PRs. That still makes scum!Dylans's claim on Day 2 nonetheless dangerous, as he wouldn't know at that point if there would be a CC.

Crap.

I have 2nd and 3rd and 4th guessed myself way too much. I've come up with reasoning in every other player (except Didds).

[MiX]

OK, so I've been reading Swan, trying to find evidence that he in facy is the Keyser Sose. And man, if he is, well done. I'm not all the way through, but rereading I'm mostly convinced he's town.

But also rereading details on set up, I just realized - I've been assuming Dylan is IC because no CC. But there doesn't
to be, right? There could be no town PRs. That still makes scum!Dylans's claim on Day 2 nonetheless dangerous, as he wouldn't know at that point if there would be a CC.

Crap.

I have 2nd and 3rd and 4th guessed myself way too much. I've come up with reasoning in every other player (except Didds).

If you math it, the chances of there not being any PR given the information scum knew at the time is 1/7ths. I'm willing to give Dylan the win if they not only claimed before anyone else, but also entered a conflict with themselves (raptor), essentially making them lose on the spot if the gambit failed.

[yuma]

Also interestingly I have just noticed that ash hasn't given a conclusive opinion on me.

It is implicated that he is thinking I am townier than MiX by voting there, but after his stance on MiX hasn't really said anything. Which actually isn't that weird at all.

I've really not wanted to look at you because feelz and who wants to alienate someone who gets you?

It's not like I haven't seen the points/cases put forth by others about your play -- but at this point you are just in the "not MiX, not claimed" pool.  And in the scola/WCD/Datswan/Yuma pool, man, that's a tough pool to rank.

Exactly what I thought was happening. Or at least what I thought you would say.

[scolapasta]

This is me still learning set up, by why not 1/2? Oh wait, is this effectively the Monty Hall problem? except T is much more likely than any other letter. So maybe not 1/2 but 1/7 seems too low, with the givens. But I haven't fully thought on the math.

I think I need to pause on my thinking about this for tonight.

It's probably not Dylan, probably not Swan, but I l do like throwing out the ideas, in case that helps out someone smarter than me.

[ashersky]

This is me still learning set up, by why not 1/2? Oh wait, is this effectively the Monty Hall problem? except T is much more likely than any other letter. So maybe not 1/2 but 1/7 seems too low, with the givens. But I haven't fully thought on the math.

I think I need to pause on my thinking about this for tonight.

It's probably not Dylan, probably not Swan, but I l do like throwing out the ideas, in case that helps out someone smarter than me.

Everyone knows I suck at probability, and basically don't believe in math.  (And definitely not maths, which is ridiculous.)

The setup is TTTTTX, where X can be T.

Also, did MiX townslip?  Man, I will be so upset if he did.  Or did he fake a townslip?  Argh.

[ashersky]

No, he didn't townslip, phew.  Just misremembering my own invention there.  Mind saved from being blown.

[ashersky]

Does it have to be Swan? I was doing yuma.

I guess?  But he seems to be the least needed target of an ISO, given all that has been posted about him already.  I was looking for new information.

[WestCoastDidds]

Everyone knows I suck at probability, and basically don't believe in math.  (And definitely not maths, which is ridiculous.)

Ash, what do you do? Are you a word person?

[scolapasta]

This is me still learning set up, by why not 1/2? Oh wait, is this effectively the Monty Hall problem? except T is much more likely than any other letter. So maybe not 1/2 but 1/7 seems too low, with the givens. But I haven't fully thought on the math.

I think I need to pause on my thinking about this for tonight.

It's probably not Dylan, probably not Swan, but I l do like throwing out the ideas, in case that helps out someone smarter than me.

Everyone knows I suck at probability, and basically don't believe in math.  (And definitely not maths, which is ridiculous.)

The setup is TTTTTX, where X can be T.

Also, did MiX townslip?  Man, I will be so upset if he did.  Or did he fake a townslip?  Argh.

OK, just did the math, and yeah 1/7 is right.

I got confused and thinking the 1/7 was coming from T vs B vs C vs D, etc, but T is 50% vs the others.

But the real probability is based on if you know it's 5 or 6 Ts, you know it's one of:
TTTTTx
TTTTxT
TTTxTT
TTxTTT
TxTTTT
xTTTTT
TTTTTT

so 6Ts is 1/7.

Sorry for the slow uptake.

[scolapasta]

So yeah, that would be very bold/crazy of Dylan to try there.

#backontheDylanICteam

[yuma]

Am I still alive. I really haven't done any rereading or anything cause I thought I would just be dead.

Would people like me to reread and provide opinions or is my credibility just completely shot?

[Dylan32]

Am I still alive. I really haven't done any rereading or anything cause I thought I would just be dead.

Would people like me to reread and provide opinions or is my credibility just completely shot?

Yuma, of all people, I'm going to be the one to ask you to do a read. Read scola. Please and thank you.

[yuma]

Am I still alive. I really haven't done any rereading or anything cause I thought I would just be dead.

Would people like me to reread and provide opinions or is my credibility just completely shot?

Yuma, of all people, I'm going to be the one to ask you to do a read. Read scola. Please and thank you.

You got it boss.

[yuma]

Scolapasta:

Main points:

Was the L-1 vote on Joseph day 1. In my opinion that is the least scummiest spot to be after where I am at, but maybe I have a bias.

Opened voting Raptor Day 2. Wasn't really around, but it was a short day. Didn't go over to Joseph, but like I said, wasn't really around there.

Day 3 really pushed the Raptor vs Dylan and pushed Raptor.

Day 4 was side tracked by the no lynch roller coaster, but otherwise seemed to be legitimately trying to figure the game out

Day 5 opened on me and has only deviated from that a bit. Although I am happy no longer voting for me right now.

I would give a solid townie grade. Nothing jumped out that would make me want to go in that direction.

[Dylan32]

Random comment: man I wish I was as ballsy and lucky as scum to have pulled off the plan you have suggested for my hypothetical scum play. That would have just been so brilliantly lucky I would think it would be in the running for scum game of the year lol. Alas, I'm not that bold...

Ok, I'm not going to sit here after midnight and do a big reread right now, but I'm going to throw out some of my thoughts and process them better tomorrow.

I like the idea of having a town block (obviously). I'm willing to go all in on Swan and WCD being in the block, and if you're scum, I'll be the first chanting MVP! MVP!

This next paragraph is based solely on gut and memory, no looking back so I could be wrong, but:

Scola worries me a little. Early in the game they seemed somewhat low activity. Enough comments here and there to show they were still following the active conversations, and nothing that really stuck out as either towny or scummy, just present.  Today especially, the activity level has picked up. Of course, it's easier to say more when there are fewer people talking, so on the one hand it's normal. On the other, they have been the single most vocal advocate of our 4 man block.  It's felt like they've repeatedly emphasized that me, Swan, WCD, and themselves are in the conf!town (or nearly so) group way more than the other people who have more specific town cred than they do.  The narrative of scola just coasting under the radar until they are presented with a clear plan that they can push through for the win to save what has otherwise been a terrible or unlucky (or terribly unlucky) game for scum worries me.  So I'm confident in the block of 3, but I would love a couple iso reads on scola from other people (both in and out of the block) to convince me one way or another before we commit to a lynch today.  So on a temporary basis until I am back online tomorrow,

unvote

ppe 2

[Dylan32]

Scolapasta:

Main points:

Was the L-1 vote on Joseph day 1. In my opinion that is the least scummiest spot to be after where I am at, but maybe I have a bias.

Opened voting Raptor Day 2. Wasn't really around, but it was a short day. Didn't go over to Joseph, but like I said, wasn't really around there.

Day 3 really pushed the Raptor vs Dylan and pushed Raptor.

Day 4 was side tracked by the no lynch roller coaster, but otherwise seemed to be legitimately trying to figure the game out

Day 5 opened on me and has only deviated from that a bit. Although I am happy no longer voting for me right now.

I would give a solid townie grade. Nothing jumped out that would make me want to go in that direction.

Darn it yuma, stop giving me towny vibes... 

[ashersky]

Everyone knows I suck at probability, and basically don't believe in math.  (And definitely not maths, which is ridiculous.)

Ash, what do you do? Are you a word person?

I don't talk about my IRL work online, but I did graduate with a degree in Creative Writing.  Essentials of Calculus was the only college level math course I took, and only because I had to have a math credit to graduate and it was literally the lowest level course offered.  My science credits were Intro to Bio and Astronomy 101.

[WestCoastDidds]

Scolapasta:

Main points:

Was the L-1 vote on Joseph day 1. In my opinion that is the least scummiest spot to be after where I am at, but maybe I have a bias.

Opened voting Raptor Day 2. Wasn't really around, but it was a short day. Didn't go over to Joseph, but like I said, wasn't really around there.

Day 3 really pushed the Raptor vs Dylan and pushed Raptor.

Day 4 was side tracked by the no lynch roller coaster, but otherwise seemed to be legitimately trying to figure the game out

Day 5 opened on me and has only deviated from that a bit. Although I am happy no longer voting for me right now.

I would give a solid townie grade. Nothing jumped out that would make me want to go in that direction.

Darn it yuma, stop giving me towny vibes... 

Right?

Also, Scola has only recently joined our merry band. I kind of feel like his increased interaction is correlated to knowing us and the forum better

[WestCoastDidds]

Everyone knows I suck at probability, and basically don't believe in math.  (And definitely not maths, which is ridiculous.)

Ash, what do you do? Are you a word person?

I don't talk about my IRL work online, but I did graduate with a degree in Creative Writing.  Essentials of Calculus was the only college level math course I took, and only because I had to have a math credit to graduate and it was literally the lowest level course offered.  My science credits were Intro to Bio and Astronomy 101.

That is amazing! Creative writing is legit difficult I’m a way that science never can be, and explains why the games you create are multifaceted and rich. I also think it’s particularly delightful that you can remember what courses you took in college. All of that is mostly a hazy memory with lots of snow for me. Pretty sure there was calculus, and finite math, and chemistry....and then I decided not to be an engineer and more wisely hung out in the humanities from then on.

[WestCoastDidds]

The three most likely for me are still MiX, Ash, and Yuma (in that order).

I’ll be here most of today. Timing wise, having the night on the weekend works well for me....so pitter patter!

[MiX]

Scola worries me a little. Early in the game they seemed somewhat low activity. Enough comments here and there to show they were still following the active conversations, and nothing that really stuck out as either towny or scummy, just present.  Today especially, the activity level has picked up. Of course, it's easier to say more when there are fewer people talking, so on the one hand it's normal. On the other, they have been the single most vocal advocate of our 4 man block.  It's felt like they've repeatedly emphasized that me, Swan, WCD, and themselves are in the conf!town (or nearly so) group way more than the other people who have more specific town cred than they do.  The narrative of scola just coasting under the radar until they are presented with a clear plan that they can push through for the win to save what has otherwise been a terrible or unlucky (or terribly unlucky) game for scum worries me.  So I'm confident in the block of 3, but I would love a couple iso reads on scola from other people (both in and out of the block) to convince me one way or another before we commit to a lynch today.  So on a temporary basis until I am back online tomorrow,

unvote

ppe 2

Interesting, Didds is worrying me more about the whole townblock idea, not scola.

I'll ISO Swan as ash said.

[MiX]

No, he didn't townslip, phew.  Just misremembering my own invention there.  Mind saved from being blown.

I am physically incapable of townslipping as scum, but what were you thinking of? Interested.

If you want to, answer in post-game, but I also want to read you this game.

[ashersky]

Started my scola re-read.  Did D1.

Not much there of substance from scola.  They state some incorrect and/or iffy setup stuff after shraeye's cop claim, showing a grand misunderstanding of how the setup works, that they didn't read the setup, or I guess something more sinister (but not really).

Didn't have many reads.  Voted for WCD at some point, did vote Joseph for L-1.  I guess that could have been a setup with raptor (who failed to hammer), but it would have needed to be pre-planned in a general way (we both make sure we're on near deadline, if we can get away with L-1 but no hammer let's do it), but that's 1) unlikely for that particular trio (no offense) and a bad plan (also, no offense).

MiX had an early scum read there, and voted.

That's basically it.  Enough to auto-lynch on D2, really, given lack of helpfulness and lack of reads given.  On D5, though?  More days to read through.

[ashersky]

Day 2 was so short, just read that.

Voted raptor early for not hammered.  Wrote probably their longest post to date in the game mostly defending raptor (called the non-hammer a bad scum move).  Missed voting for Joseph.  The end.

More scum points than town points from D2, albeit in a short time frame.

[ashersky]

D3:

Voted raptor, basically stayed there, although again made one argument for Dylan over raptor.  They quickly switched course when that looked bad (I think) and came up with fairly solid reasons for raptor first in the 1v1.  I'd say those reasons evened out the one scummy post defending raptor.

Then there is a scummy lob right at the end of the day before the flip, calling out WCD.  The content isn't scummy so much as the odd way it is tossed out in a non sequitur way.  I call it "planting the seed of suspicion" and it is a scum tactic.  Town can do it, too, on purpose or not, but it is a legit tactic.

That's my takeaway from D3.

(I will note that my ISO style is read all/only posts by the ISO person first, then re-read all/only posts that mention the ISO person.  I'm on the first part, obviously.)

[ashersky]

It's late, so I'm stopping, but I did read the first post or so of D4 and...

Scola goes from not knowing the setup at all on D1 to needing help understanding the setup on D3 to explaining the setup on D4.

So...fast learner?  Great teachers?  Faking it in the beginning?

[MiX]

It's late, so I'm stopping, but I did read the first post or so of D4 and...

Scola goes from not knowing the setup at all on D1 to needing help understanding the setup on D3 to explaining the setup on D4.

So...fast learner?  Great teachers?  Faking it in the beginning?

I'd say fast learner from what I've seen of him.

I like the analysis in general. I'll try to speed up my Swan.

[scolapasta]

Huh - it's fun reading this analysis. Is it worth explaining different things? I can and will, if y'all want me to.

[MiX]

Huh - it's fun reading this analysis. Is it worth explaining different things? I can and will, if y'all want me to.

Yes, all the feedback on ash's analysis of you is good.

[scolapasta]

OK, sure. Will come later today / tonight, depending on work, Dominion league games, dinner, and virtual Boggle. (SO MANY GAMES!)

[scolapasta]

joth, were you told who gave you the item? or do you just know it was skip because he said he had it?

Also, a lot of things happened late day, but I find it suspicious that there would be two of the exact same role on the same faction. i.e. I'm still on board with lynching either skip or mail-mi.

I mean, both needing rope sure, but it would be much cooler if they needed it for different reasons.

Lean Skip, as Mail-mi claimed first, and skip just said me too.

I mean, there could be two sailors? But like I said, feels suspicious.

[WestCoastDidds]

joth, were you told who gave you the item? or do you just know it was skip because he said he had it?

Also, a lot of things happened late day, but I find it suspicious that there would be two of the exact same role on the same faction. i.e. I'm still on board with lynching either skip or mail-mi.

I mean, both needing rope sure, but it would be much cooler if they needed it for different reasons.

Lean Skip, as Mail-mi claimed first, and skip just said me too.

I mean, there could be two sailors? But like I said, feels suspicious.

Wrong game

[MiX]

joth, were you told who gave you the item? or do you just know it was skip because he said he had it?

Also, a lot of things happened late day, but I find it suspicious that there would be two of the exact same role on the same faction. i.e. I'm still on board with lynching either skip or mail-mi.

I mean, both needing rope sure, but it would be much cooler if they needed it for different reasons.

Lean Skip, as Mail-mi claimed first, and skip just said me too.

I mean, there could be two sailors? But like I said, feels suspicious.

I'm surprised this hasn't happened to me yet.

[WestCoastDidds]

So many games, indeed!!!

[scolapasta]

WHOOPS! Sorry, all.

[Dylan32]

No, he didn't townslip, phew.  Just misremembering my own invention there.  Mind saved from being blown.

I am physically incapable of townslipping as scum, but what were you thinking of? Interested.

If you want to, answer in post-game, but I also want to read you this game.

Ok, I'm not so dense as to miss the fact this is in reply to Ash, who's assumption is that MiX is scum and that this is probably just a tongue in cheek comment referring to that fact, but uh...

[yuma]

Huh - it's fun reading this analysis. Is it worth explaining different things? I can and will, if y'all want me to.

Yes, all the feedback on ash's analysis of you is good.

I am not sure I agree. There is such a thing as over content. I think it is worth responding to if the points actually lead to votes.

If you feel ash is saying something in a certain way to intentionally make you look bad that is another matter. But if it is just clarifying, I dont really see the point and probably won't fully read.

Remember most interactions here are town v town.

[Swowl]

Started my scola re-read.  Did D1.

Not much there of substance from scola.  They state some incorrect and/or iffy setup stuff after shraeye's cop claim, showing a grand misunderstanding of how the setup works, that they didn't read the setup, or I guess something more sinister (but not really).

Didn't have many reads.  Voted for WCD at some point, did vote Joseph for L-1.  I guess that could have been a setup with raptor (who failed to hammer), but it would have needed to be pre-planned in a general way (we both make sure we're on near deadline, if we can get away with L-1 but no hammer let's do it), but that's 1) unlikely for that particular trio (no offense) and a bad plan (also, no offense).

MiX had an early scum read there, and voted.

That's basically it.  Enough to auto-lynch on D2, really, given lack of helpfulness and lack of reads given.  On D5, though?  More days to read through.

agree with the current situation but we are on way off different pages in regards to Scola read on Day 1. Scola Checked in 5 hours previous to DL and voted for WCD. Then without checking in at all, just votes for Joseph, putting them at L-1 with 30mins left on the clock.
Here is the thing - *IF* pasta is skum then he knows that Joseph is skum and Raptor is skum. He knows faust is off. So that means that literally the only people that can make a move to Raptor after he does to make it happen were Cayvie(ash) who had been afk for like 3 full days, and then Shraeye/LL (who were both on the WCD wagon with him).
Why would he put his skum mate at L1 there and risk a having only 1/3 people wake up when they could of just done nothing?
I hard read town on scola for as of day 1.

[Swowl]

Day 2 was so short, just read that.

Voted raptor early for not hammered.  Wrote probably their longest post to date in the game mostly defending raptor (called the non-hammer a bad scum move).  Missed voting for Joseph.  The end.

More scum points than town points from D2, albeit in a short time frame.

my notes for scola on day 2 are null instead of skum over town, but all in all agreed with day 2 read.

[Swowl]

D3:

Voted raptor, basically stayed there, although again made one argument for Dylan over raptor.  They quickly switched course when that looked bad (I think) and came up with fairly solid reasons for raptor first in the 1v1.  I'd say those reasons evened out the one scummy post defending raptor.

Then there is a scummy lob right at the end of the day before the flip, calling out WCD.  The content isn't scummy so much as the odd way it is tossed out in a non sequitur way.  I call it "planting the seed of suspicion" and it is a scum tactic.  Town can do it, too, on purpose or not, but it is a legit tactic.

That's my takeaway from D3.

(I will note that my ISO style is read all/only posts by the ISO person first, then re-read all/only posts that mention the ISO person.  I'm on the first part, obviously.)

I mean after we got Joseph regardless of who the third skum was the plan had to be to bus the shit out of raptor if the day started the way they thought it would right? You think more vote or more bus with scola sit/vote?

[scolapasta]

So, to Ash's read:

It's definitely correct that I didn't understand the set up when we started. There was a point later that someone (MiX?) made post explaining some aspect, when it all clicked, and then yes, it did make complete sense. So I'd say a combo of being taught / quick learner.

The WCD thing was because I wanted to get the idea out there in case I was killed at night. I had been thinking it for a while, and if I died wanted to at least get it on people's radar. Since then, of course, I've read her as the towniest of the bunch (outside of claiming Dylan).

And lastly, the posting more: I think that's just my style. a) I have more of a feel for the particular game after serveral "days" and b) with more people, I can usually just try to follow other people and give 2 cents here and there. Once you play enough with me, you'll see this is NAI.


PPE a lot, as I got distracted by me Dominion league games - good news, went 2-0!

[scolapasta]

I do think yuma is seeming more and more town. Of course, if they were scum they know they'd have to be since we've been discussing their lynch for a while.

I'm starting to like either ash or mix lynch more. Though I know Swan doesn't like that.

[scolapasta]

It's late, so I'm stopping, but I did read the first post or so of D4 and...

Scola goes from not knowing the setup at all on D1 to needing help understanding the setup on D3 to explaining the setup on D4.

So...fast learner?  Great teachers?  Faking it in the beginning?

I'd say fast learner from what I've seen of him.

I like the analysis in general. I'll try to speed up my Swan.

Oh, and thanks for this compliment. You do know you gave it to me and not to skip, right? :p

[Dylan32]

It's late, so I'm stopping, but I did read the first post or so of D4 and...

Scola goes from not knowing the setup at all on D1 to needing help understanding the setup on D3 to explaining the setup on D4.

So...fast learner?  Great teachers?  Faking it in the beginning?

I'd say fast learner from what I've seen of him.

I like the analysis in general. I'll try to speed up my Swan.

Oh, and thanks for this compliment. You do know you gave it to me and not to skip, right? :p

Careful not to refer to ongoing games. No idea if you are doing that because I'm haven't read any of the other ones, but seems possible.

[Dylan32]

Ok, this game feels like it's slowed down quite a bit, and at least part of that is probably on me.  If we are confident in Didds, Swan, scola, and myself being town, we could just go through and lynch yuma, ash, and mix in any order and we should win, so why not just go for it at this point. We could debate the order until we're blue in the face, but I don't think order really matters if the result is the same.  Are we ready to just do that? Seeing a couple people come down towny on scola makes me feel better about it, so I think I'm ready to go whenever.

Request vote count

[Dylan32]

For the three outside of that group, how confident are you that one of the other two in that group is scum?  Ash, I already know how confident you are about MiX, so I guess you get a pass on this question haha.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ok, this game feels like it's slowed down quite a bit, and at least part of that is probably on me.  If we are confident in Didds, Swan, scola, and myself being town, we could just go through and lynch yuma, ash, and mix in any order and we should win, so why not just go for it at this point. We could debate the order until we're blue in the face, but I don't think order really matters if the result is the same.  Are we ready to just do that? Seeing a couple people come down towny on scola makes me feel better about it, so I think I'm ready to go whenever.

Request vote count

Agreed. Ash went all in on a MiX case D4. Said he’d eat his hat.

So, vote: MiX

[Swowl]

I have reasons... not like certain on them, but more confident that they will help out.
We should lynch outside of Ash/MiX today (imo Yuma) - and then, if we have not won, have UB claim tomorrow.

Dylan - if there was a way I could just share the reasons with you I would, but I can't so I kind of just need ya to go with me on this one.

[WestCoastDidds]

I have reasons... not like certain on them, but more confident that they will help out.
We should lynch outside of Ash/MiX today (imo Yuma) - and then, if we have not won, have UB claim tomorrow.

Dylan - if there was a way I could just share the reasons with you I would, but I can't so I kind of just need ya to go with me on this one.

Alright, lfg

Vote: Yuma

[scolapasta]

It's late, so I'm stopping, but I did read the first post or so of D4 and...

Scola goes from not knowing the setup at all on D1 to needing help understanding the setup on D3 to explaining the setup on D4.

So...fast learner?  Great teachers?  Faking it in the beginning?

I'd say fast learner from what I've seen of him.

I like the analysis in general. I'll try to speed up my Swan.

Oh, and thanks for this compliment. You do know you gave it to me and not to skip, right? :p

Careful not to refer to ongoing games. No idea if you are doing that because I'm haven't read any of the other ones, but seems possible.

Thanks; but no worries, I wasn't referring to any other game, just that MiX had confused me and skip (in this game).

[yuma]

I will never be ready to die. But, alas.

[Dylan32]

I have reasons... not like certain on them, but more confident that they will help out.
We should lynch outside of Ash/MiX today (imo Yuma) - and then, if we have not won, have UB claim tomorrow.

Dylan - if there was a way I could just share the reasons with you I would, but I can't so I kind of just need ya to go with me on this one.

Geez, if there was scum in the block, this is what they would want to do. Although I have a reason in mind why you might want to do that first, and if I'm thinking what you are thinking, I can go along with it, at least I might have one of the reasons.

Vote: yuma, and sorry if you're an innocent casualty.

ppe: 1, and it's the saddest ppe ever lol

[scolapasta]

I have reasons... not like certain on them, but more confident that they will help out.
We should lynch outside of Ash/MiX today (imo Yuma) - and then, if we have not won, have UB claim tomorrow.

Dylan - if there was a way I could just share the reasons with you I would, but I can't so I kind of just need ya to go with me on this one.

See, this is where I'm 2nd guessing myself. I just wonder if this doesn't smell scummy to anyone else?

I at least would like to wait on MiX rereading Swan before voting. Maybe that would help easy my concerns.

(note this would have required Swan, Joseph, and Raptor to basically N0 plan this and say, Swan you go hard against us both, and we'll help provide cover for you. I mean is that too far fetched?)

There's one post in particular when I was doing a reread, that has be at both times thinking this is impossible, or this is genius. I'll find it later, now off for some well deserved pizza.

Of the current bloc, he's my main, probably, only concern.

[MiX]

I don't think yuma is scum man. I really don't. I think the only player that wouldn't kill twice is ash, and given cayvie's D1, faust's scumread on both of then, ash's I-think-it-was-scumread-but-honestly-forgot read on faust followed by faust being the...last NK, I think this all points to ash being scum. The fact that he's pushing me and defending raptor all of the rest of the game is just him seeing what he can push as scum.

I'm not moving. I don't think I should be moving either.

Let me answer a bunch of things. yuma's at L-?

[MiX]

No, he didn't townslip, phew.  Just misremembering my own invention there.  Mind saved from being blown.

I am physically incapable of townslipping as scum, but what were you thinking of? Interested.

If you want to, answer in post-game, but I also want to read you this game.

Ok, I'm not so dense as to miss the fact this is in reply to Ash, who's assumption is that MiX is scum and that this is probably just a tongue in cheek comment referring to that fact, but uh...

"but uh..." what?

agree with the current situation but we are on way off different pages in regards to Scola read on Day 1. Scola Checked in 5 hours previous to DL and voted for WCD. Then without checking in at all, just votes for Joseph, putting them at L-1 with 30mins left on the clock.
Here is the thing - *IF* pasta is skum then he knows that Joseph is skum and Raptor is skum. He knows faust is off. So that means that literally the only people that can make a move to Raptor after he does to make it happen were Cayvie(ash) who had been afk for like 3 full days, and then Shraeye/LL (who were both on the WCD wagon with him).
Why would he put his skum mate at L1 there and risk a having only 1/3 people wake up when they could of just done nothing?
I hard read town on scola for as of day 1.

And not yuma? This feels backwards. Me/yuma/scola are in the same position where one of us not voting means raptor doesn't go down with Joseph.

It's late, so I'm stopping, but I did read the first post or so of D4 and...

Scola goes from not knowing the setup at all on D1 to needing help understanding the setup on D3 to explaining the setup on D4.

So...fast learner?  Great teachers?  Faking it in the beginning?

I'd say fast learner from what I've seen of him.

I like the analysis in general. I'll try to speed up my Swan.

Oh, and thanks for this compliment. You do know you gave it to me and not to skip, right? :p

Yes, I do.

I have reasons... not like certain on them, but more confident that they will help out.
We should lynch outside of Ash/MiX today (imo Yuma) - and then, if we have not won, have UB claim tomorrow.

Dylan - if there was a way I could just share the reasons with you I would, but I can't so I kind of just need ya to go with me on this one.

Why are you hiding information, what can scum possibly do, if yuma's scum we win, otherwise I don't see the problem.

I have reasons... not like certain on them, but more confident that they will help out.
We should lynch outside of Ash/MiX today (imo Yuma) - and then, if we have not won, have UB claim tomorrow.

Dylan - if there was a way I could just share the reasons with you I would, but I can't so I kind of just need ya to go with me on this one.

See, this is where I'm 2nd guessing myself. I just wonder if this doesn't smell scummy to anyone else?

I at least would like to wait on MiX rereading Swan before voting. Maybe that would help easy my concerns.

(note this would have required Swan, Joseph, and Raptor to basically N0 plan this and say, Swan you go hard against us both, and we'll help provide cover for you. I mean is that too far fetched?)

There's one post in particular when I was doing a reread, that has be at both times thinking this is impossible, or this is genius. I'll find it later, now off for some well deserved pizza.

Of the current bloc, he's my main, probably, only concern.

I don't think I'm doing the Swan reread in time to be honest. Not that motivated to solve this game. I just think it's ash, but I made a pact with him...

The pact also involves one of us being lynched instead of town.

[Swowl]

Thank you for asking MiX. And yes, you specifically are grouped very close with Scola on my TR list from day 1 because also that point.

Here is a snip it from my notes. The first is the wagon right before the triple switch, the second is the final wagon of Day 1.

Right before this VC, WCD goes over to joseph after joseph joins WCD on LL.

LaLight (3): yuma, MiX, Joseph - UNK, UNK, Skum
Joseph (3): Swan, Dylan, WestCoastDidds - Town, Town, UNK
WestCoastDidds (3): shraeye, LaLight, scolapasta - Town, Town, UNK
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96 - UNK, Skum
Cayvie (1): faust - Town

Then...
- MiX leaves LL for Joseph - why in the holy hell would you not go to WCD there instead of Joseph if you are skum?
- Yuma leaves LL for Joseph - Kind of the same concept but a little less credit because of how it would look to split the wagon that close to DL. But still close.
- Scola leaves WCD for Joseph - Scola was not there. You were. Yuma was. If you just peaced out, it would of looked odd without moving your vote. Now you and Yuma still could of moved it to WCD... which is why I don't find it skummy... but the important part for scola is that they were not there. They didn't even check in and then like "shit, I should of checked the wagons first duh" they just checking by voting for Joseph.
So we get here.

Joseph (6): Swan, Dylan, WestCoastDidds, yuma, MiX, scolapasta
LaLight (1): Joseph
WestCoastDidds (2): shraeye, LaLight
faust (2): cayvie, Xxraptorslayer96
Cayvie (1): faust

So Scola is town for day 1.
gap
followed by WCD and MiX
gap
yuma.
and somewhere around yuma's level is Ash/Cayvie.

[Swowl]

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

[MiX]

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

Yeah well whatever that thought process says you should lynch ash. The fact that Raptor had to save Joseph probably means the other scum was away, which is literally just cayvie in D1.

[yuma]

Counting Votes:


MiX (2): ashersky, yuma
ashersky (1): MiX
yuma (2): WCD, Dylan

Not Voting (2): DatSwan, scolapasta

[scolapasta]

Off to Virtual Boggle. I'll catch up later tonight!

[ashersky]

Started my scola re-read.  Did D1.

Not much there of substance from scola.  They state some incorrect and/or iffy setup stuff after shraeye's cop claim, showing a grand misunderstanding of how the setup works, that they didn't read the setup, or I guess something more sinister (but not really).

Didn't have many reads.  Voted for WCD at some point, did vote Joseph for L-1.  I guess that could have been a setup with raptor (who failed to hammer), but it would have needed to be pre-planned in a general way (we both make sure we're on near deadline, if we can get away with L-1 but no hammer let's do it), but that's 1) unlikely for that particular trio (no offense) and a bad plan (also, no offense).

MiX had an early scum read there, and voted.

That's basically it.  Enough to auto-lynch on D2, really, given lack of helpfulness and lack of reads given.  On D5, though?  More days to read through.

agree with the current situation but we are on way off different pages in regards to Scola read on Day 1. Scola Checked in 5 hours previous to DL and voted for WCD. Then without checking in at all, just votes for Joseph, putting them at L-1 with 30mins left on the clock.
Here is the thing - *IF* pasta is skum then he knows that Joseph is skum and Raptor is skum. He knows faust is off. So that means that literally the only people that can make a move to Raptor after he does to make it happen were Cayvie(ash) who had been afk for like 3 full days, and then Shraeye/LL (who were both on the WCD wagon with him).
Why would he put his skum mate at L1 there and risk a having only 1/3 people wake up when they could of just done nothing?
I hard read town on scola for as of day 1.

I think part of this is that I didn't play the game on D1, so I lose a lot of that context/feel on timing, etc.  I also only read scola's posts that day during my ISO.

[ashersky]

D3:

Voted raptor, basically stayed there, although again made one argument for Dylan over raptor.  They quickly switched course when that looked bad (I think) and came up with fairly solid reasons for raptor first in the 1v1.  I'd say those reasons evened out the one scummy post defending raptor.

Then there is a scummy lob right at the end of the day before the flip, calling out WCD.  The content isn't scummy so much as the odd way it is tossed out in a non sequitur way.  I call it "planting the seed of suspicion" and it is a scum tactic.  Town can do it, too, on purpose or not, but it is a legit tactic.

That's my takeaway from D3.

(I will note that my ISO style is read all/only posts by the ISO person first, then re-read all/only posts that mention the ISO person.  I'm on the first part, obviously.)

I mean after we got Joseph regardless of who the third skum was the plan had to be to bus the shit out of raptor if the day started the way they thought it would right? You think more vote or more bus with scola sit/vote?

Your abbreviations are confusing.

I think a vast majority of the time, once Joseph went down the plan would be to hard~bus raptor due to the missed hammer looking scummy.  There are other options -- soft~bus while seeding doubt by using technically legit arguments like "hey town forgets too" or "man it doesn't make sense for scum to do that."  You could just straight up refuse to bus, which would be a reverse-psychology too scummy to be scum move, which is popular in some sets. 

If scola is scum, they went soft~bus at first, saw the error of those ways, then switched gears.  I'm not sure that's what happened, but there's a narrative there that could fit.

I don't know what "more vote or more bus" means, but I hope that answers your question.

[ashersky]

So, to Ash's read:

It's definitely correct that I didn't understand the set up when we started. There was a point later that someone (MiX?) made post explaining some aspect, when it all clicked, and then yes, it did make complete sense. So I'd say a combo of being taught / quick learner.

The WCD thing was because I wanted to get the idea out there in case I was killed at night. I had been thinking it for a while, and if I died wanted to at least get it on people's radar. Since then, of course, I've read her as the towniest of the bunch (outside of claiming Dylan).

And lastly, the posting more: I think that's just my style. a) I have more of a feel for the particular game after serveral "days" and b) with more people, I can usually just try to follow other people and give 2 cents here and there. Once you play enough with me, you'll see this is NAI.


PPE a lot, as I got distracted by me Dominion league games - good news, went 2-0!

Emojis are scummy.  (Is that still a thing?)

Seriously though, this post has such a different tone than any other post that I read, I don't understand what it means.  I'd say it reads like it was written by someone else super nice (like Space or Didds or something).  Not to say scola isn't nice or anything, but their tone has definitely been very different.

Again, probably NAI, but it really stuck out to me.

[ashersky]

Agreed. Ash went all in on a MiX case D4. Said he’d eat his hat.

So, vote: MiX

Not my hat, a hat.  Someone would need to ship me one.

[ashersky]

Another point against MiX: the FISP is definitely in effect now.

[ashersky]

Another point against MiX: the FISP is definitely in effect now.

This also coincides with the WNGAP.

[MiX]

Another point against MiX: the FISP is definitely in effect now.

Another point against MiX: the FISP is definitely in effect now.

This also coincides with the WNGAP.

Are these joke acronyms or am I missing something.

Agreed. Ash went all in on a MiX case D4. Said he’d eat his hat.

So, vote: MiX

Not my hat, a hat.  Someone would need to ship me one.

The hat. The one that you end up eating.

I'd arrange the shipping if I expected to be lynched this game.

[ashersky]

Another point against MiX: the FISP is definitely in effect now.

Another point against MiX: the FISP is definitely in effect now.

This also coincides with the WNGAP.

Are these joke acronyms or am I missing something.

These are real.  You are missing something.

[MiX]

What do they mean.

[ashersky]

FISP: The Faust is Scum Principle.  As more days pass and faust has not been NKed, the higher his likelihood to be scum.

WNGAP: The Wagons Never Go Anywhere Principle.  When a player has wagons most days but never gets lynched (i.e., reaches L-1 often but doesn't die, has multiple votes every day but never lynched), the likelihood they are scum is higher.

I'm fairly sure these are scientifically provable.

[MiX]

FISP: The Faust is Scum Principle.  As more days pass and faust has not been NKed, the higher his likelihood to be scum.

WNGAP: The Wagons Never Go Anywhere Principle.  When a player has wagons most days but never gets lynched (i.e., reaches L-1 often but doesn't die, has multiple votes every day but never lynched), the likelihood they are scum is higher.

I'm fairly sure these are scientifically provable.

FISP is outdated, but you did update it. It doesn't actually work because you were scumreading me D3.

WNGAP doesn't exist if there's only 1 scum alive.

Yeah, you're scum. I'm not moving my vote.

[WestCoastDidds]

Agreed. Ash went all in on a MiX case D4. Said he’d eat his hat.

So, vote: MiX

Not my hat, a hat.  Someone would need to ship me one.

OMG, that is awesome.

[Swowl]

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

Yeah well whatever that thought process says you should lynch ash. The fact that Raptor had to save Joseph probably means the other scum was away, which is literally just cayvie in D1.

counter argument.

Vote: Yuma

[MiX]

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

Yeah well whatever that thought process says you should lynch ash. The fact that Raptor had to save Joseph probably means the other scum was away, which is literally just cayvie in D1.

counter argument.

Vote: Yuma

Hey remember when LL was town.

I do.

[yuma]

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

Yeah well whatever that thought process says you should lynch ash. The fact that Raptor had to save Joseph probably means the other scum was away, which is literally just cayvie in D1.

counter argument.

Vote: Yuma

 

[Dylan32]

Honestly, the way things have gone, I think Ash is most likely of the three to actually flip scum, but since we can just go down the line I'm fine going yuma first to rule out the too scummy to be scum is really scum scenario first.  For what it's worth yuma, I've read your posts as towny; D2 you were my strongest town read until Joseph and raptor flipped and I read your D2 start in that context...

[yuma]

Honestly, the way things have gone, I think Ash is most likely of the three to actually flip scum, but since we can just go down the line I'm fine going yuma first to rule out the too scummy to be scum is really scum scenario first.  For what it's worth yuma, I've read your posts as towny; D2 you were my strongest town read until Joseph and raptor flipped and I read your D2 start in that context...

I know. Just lynch whomever quickly tomorrow and the next day if necessary so the game doesn't go on toooo long with out me.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yuma, are you gonna be playing with us some more? It’s been nice getting to know you and the OG clearly dig you.

Also, we need more drunk/kite mafia dates!

[WestCoastDidds]

That’s L-1, yeah?

[yuma]

Yuma, are you gonna be playing with us some more? It’s been nice getting to know you and the OG clearly dig you.

Also, we need more drunk/kite mafia dates!

Yeah. I'll stick around.

And yes. I am there right now!

[yuma]

I am town. I am town. I am town.

[scolapasta]

I feel if I had a lot more experience with ya'll, I'd have a much better chance of figuring out some of these crazy scenarios I have in my head. But alas... we'll see in a few games. For now, I'll follow Swan's lead (I mean the bloc was my idea after all):

Vote: yuma

[yuma]

sad day

[yuma]

MiX before ash

[WestCoastDidds]

Yuma, are you gonna be playing with us some more? It’s been nice getting to know you and the OG clearly dig you.

Also, we need more drunk/kite mafia dates!

Yeah. I'll stick around.

And yes. I am there right now!

Friday night! Of course in lockdown every day is Snathurday

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX before ash

Best reason? (Say it’s the hat eating, say it’s the hat eating!)

[yuma]

every day

[yuma]

MiX before ash

Best reason? (Say it’s the hat eating, say it’s the hat eating!)

hat eating

[yuma]

and also ash just seems super town

[yuma]

like not what he is done, but how he is acting

[Swowl]

well shit. looks like a "sorry yuma" is gonna be due... it was great to play with you though.

[WestCoastDidds]

every day

Well, anything goes on Snathurday. Everyone know this.

[yuma]

well shit. looks like a "sorry yuma" is gonna be due... it was great to play with you though.

IT was fun. WE should do it again.

[scolapasta]

So you're saying you were two?

Gah, I thought as much.

Swan I look forward to hearing your idea "tomorrow". I think I might have a guess at what it could be, though I'm probably completely off.

[A Drowned Kernel]

yuma was lynched! He was a Vanilla Townie

Final Vote Count

MiX (2): ashersky, yuma
ashersky (1): MiX
yuma (4): WestCoastDidds, Dylan32, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 7 alive it took 4 to lynch. Night Five begins now and ends at 12 am forum time May 4th.

THREAD LOCKED

[A Drowned Kernel]

Day Six Start

No one died in the night.

Vote Count 6.0

Not Voting (6): MiX, Dylan32, WestCoastDidds, ashersky, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Six begins now and ends at 12 am forum time May 11th.

THREAD UNLOCKED

[scolapasta]

Huh. Again.

I can't wait to wake up in the morning and hear all the new theories.

[Dylan32]

Ok. I can only think of two reasons for this. A) Scum has phoned it in (either on purpose or by not checking their QT). B) Scum actually thinks their best play is to let the status quo continue, which would mean Ash and MiX are town (since the status quo for them is getting lynched the next two nights) and they think they can win the 4 person showdown against me and the other 2 members of the assumed!town block.  If B, creatively and well played and good luck.

I personally think the UB should claim now. I understand waiting until 5 people, but there have been a few not!UB claims already, so the pool isn't exactly big for who it might actually be.

Lol. I was about to ask if it was possible for someone to play a game of mafia and not actually look at the QT to avoid knowing they weren't town so they could for all intents and purposes play exactly like town, but by having to check in in the personal QT before game start I don't think so (if that was something we had to do this game).

[ashersky]

I'm convinced MiX is the only player with the gumption to do this.  My read there hasn't changed, of course.

If Dylan is lying, not killing Dylan makes senses as a way of not giving away the lie (because scum would kill the truthful claimed role to keep him from being IC-ish during the day).  Except no counterclaims makes that unlikely.  Except the possible super doctor theory, which seems outlandish at this point (as opposed to the first time, where it seemed more possible).

Can someone good at stats do the math?  Chances that a doctor successfully blocked Dylan's shot three nights in a row?  Seems pretty slim.

So then, crazy scum ploy, or given up scum, per Dylan's thinking, which seems to track.

The state of play is still heavily in town's favor.  I think the bloc idea is the unsafest move, though, because if the bloc is wrong, we lose.

Six alive...ML = 5 alive.  NoK means 5 alive, 3 to lynch while NK means 4 alive, 3 to lynch.  In the first situation, lynch as normal, in the second, NL to see if they shoot again and give us 3-man LYLO.

Either way, we are guaranteed 3 days (including today) to get this right.

Or we could have won days ago by listening to me from the beginning.

[MiX]

Swan, listen to me for once, will ya?

Vote: ash, he's the only player alive that is capable of doing this.

Also I'm looking at the PPE and he mentioned a doctor again which is negative percent of existing which means he's just pulling stuff out of his ass, he's not trying to help town.

Also also, to other town: stop pushing mislynches, thank you and lynch ash I've had enough of him being scum.

If you don't believe me, then you should've lynched me yesterday instead of towny mctown yuma.

PPE I'm not reading any posts today we autolynch ash. Oh, lol no one died again.

[MiX]

Or we could have won days ago by listening to me from the beginning.

Yes.

Also the ICs are terrible, sorry for saying that but I've had enough of Swan.

I submitted a kill for Swan yesterday. So I can't be super hidden scum.

Just lynch ash please I'm not even trying to push any mislynches I just knew yuma was a terrible lynch except no one fucking cares about what the 1v1 says.

LYNCH IN THE SCUMREADS AND NOT THE TOWNREADS TOWN.

Thank you and I'm tired of this game.

[ashersky]

vote: MiX

You make it too easy.  I didn't even open with a vote because I hoped the somewhat level, MiX would be coming back.

Neutral parties, just read the last two posts by MiX...

He regurgitates my statement that he's the only player capable of this.
He continues to want to control the information that is provided to all, to specifically hide actual possibilities (no matter how far-fetched).  Remember that the only two players who know 100% whether or not Dylan is lying are Dylan and the remaining scum.  The rest of us can only trust/believe/etc.
He complains about mislynches while actively taking part in mislynches all game.  He also helped to make sure the one player who knows me better than any other was removed from the game without using an NK.
He is exasperated.

MiX is scum, my hat offer is still on the table.

[ashersky]

Look, I'll make it easy for all the other town members of this game.

Trust me, lynch MiX.  We win.  If I'm wrong, I promise I wwill do the following:

--vote myself in my first post tomorrow (assuming I'm alive)
--eat a hat
--never play another game of forum mafia ever again

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

Is this an ATE?  Absolutely.  Is it because I'm so incredibly frustrated that I am unable to convince anyone of anything anymore, when at one point in the history of f.ds mafia I was one of the absolute best players on the site?  Yes.  Am I conceited and terrible for saying something like that?  I don't think so -- I think many players who were here during those times would say I am making a fair statement.

I feel like one of those very elite athletes who doesn't retired before they aren't the best anymore; or come back from retirement to play even though they aren't as good as they used to be.  It's a terrible feeling, really, and I am pretty sure I made a huge mistake coming back to play mafia at all.  But man it is fun.

I'm sorry.

[ashersky]

I guess I'm just done.  I can request a sub, although at this late juncture, it seems difficult to do.

[MiX]

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

I'll just say what I need to say.

You are wrong. So now imagine you are lynched. What will you do.

I guess I'm just done.  I can request a sub, although at this late juncture, it seems difficult to do.

Just lynch us both and stop listening to Swan, this is a message to everyone else in this game.

[MiX]

Ok, ash. What is there that makes me 100% scum. Cause I can fight logic forever but if you just assume your previous arguments were correct then idk.

I don't think you have the strength to do this, and I probably don't have the strength to defend either, so you can just accept the fact that if you are...no. This game's fate's sealed regardless of anything, the yuma mislynch means we must lynch me and ash one after the other and scum either wins or loses the game's decided.

GG. The game's over at this point.

[ashersky]

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

I'll just say what I need to say.

You are wrong. So now imagine you are lynched. What will you do.

I don't need to imagine.  I already wrote what I would do.  Selfvote, eat a hat, quit mafia.

[MiX]

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

I'll just say what I need to say.

You are wrong. So now imagine you are lynched. What will you do.

I don't need to imagine.  I already wrote what I would do.  Selfvote, eat a hat, quit mafia.

No I mean if you are lynched. You said you would leave since I was scum. I am not. So what will you do?

[ashersky]

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

I'll just say what I need to say.

You are wrong. So now imagine you are lynched. What will you do.

I don't need to imagine.  I already wrote what I would do.  Selfvote, eat a hat, quit mafia.

No I mean if you are lynched. You said you would leave since I was scum. I am not. So what will you do?

I also said what I would do if I was lynched, just quit mafia.  No hat to eat and no way to self vote.

If you mean if I am wrong and then I am lynched.  Well then we lose.

[MiX]

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

I'll just say what I need to say.

You are wrong. So now imagine you are lynched. What will you do.

I don't need to imagine.  I already wrote what I would do.  Selfvote, eat a hat, quit mafia.

No I mean if you are lynched. You said you would leave since I was scum. I am not. So what will you do?

I also said what I would do if I was lynched, just quit mafia.  No hat to eat and no way to self vote.

If you mean if I am wrong and then I am lynched.  Well then we lose.

Yes, yes we do lose. Will you do anything else?

[ashersky]

What else would I do?

Do you mean apologize?  If you want.

[MiX]

What else would I do?

Do you mean apologize?  If you want.

I mean eat a hat regardless. Idk you can choose.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ash, I hope you keep playing. I can see how entirely frustrating it must be to play with people less skilled than you are, but I like you and think you’re a good dude, and maybe it can be more fun than frustrating sometimes.

[ashersky]

Ash, I hope you keep playing. I can see how entirely frustrating it must be to play with people less skilled than you are, but I like you and think you’re a good dude, and maybe it can be more fun than frustrating sometimes.

I hope I didn't make it sound like I think players are less skilled than me.  I meant I think my skills must have diminished from what they once were.

I was comparing myself to my past self.  I definitely meant no offense toward anyone other than myself.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ash, I hope you keep playing. I can see how entirely frustrating it must be to play with people less skilled than you are, but I like you and think you’re a good dude, and maybe it can be more fun than frustrating sometimes.

I hope I didn't make it sound like I think players are less skilled than me.  I meant I think my skills must have diminished from what they once were.

I was comparing myself to my past self.  I definitely meant no offense toward anyone other than myself.

Oh! I didn’t think you were being insulting at all. Just frustrated.

[WestCoastDidds]

And at least for me, that frustration is genuine.

vote: MiX

[MiX]

And at least for me, that frustration is genuine.

vote: MiX

It ain't.

It literally is not genuine.

If you didn't know it by now from his cases, scum!ash AtEs forever and ever.

Not to mention he's the only alive player that wouldn't kill at 7 players alive.

[MiX]

Okay I have an ash-level case on why ash is 100% scum.

He said I was scum, and that he would do options a b or c if I was lynched and flipped town. He also said what he would do if he was lynched and I was scum. But he didn't say what would happen if I was town. This means he knows that if I'm town and he's lynched, the game is over. This can only happen if he's scum. Therefore he is scum.

There I have ascended as a Mafia player.

[scolapasta]

Meh. I never liked the Yuma lynch. that was a mistake.

Waiting to hear from Swan now.

[Swowl]

Or we could have won days ago by listening to me from the beginning.

Yes.

Also the ICs are terrible, sorry for saying that but I've had enough of Swan.

I submitted a kill for Swan yesterday. So I can't be super hidden scum.

Just lynch ash please I'm not even trying to push any mislynches I just knew yuma was a terrible lynch except no one fucking cares about what the 1v1 says.

LYNCH IN THE SCUMREADS AND NOT THE TOWNREADS TOWN.

Thank you and I'm tired of this game.

yes mix I am so sorry I started us off with 2 back to back correct skum finds and could not keep that pattern up.

secondly, your skum reams and your town reads... not "the skumreads" and "the townreads". I was following my skum reads.

and amazing... LL flips
Mix "omg that was a terrible lynch"
then Yuma flips
"omg that was a terrible lynch"


tldr; chill the eff out dude.

[Swowl]

Look, I'll make it easy for all the other town members of this game.

Trust me, lynch MiX.  We win.  If I'm wrong, I promise I wwill do the following:

--vote myself in my first post tomorrow (assuming I'm alive)
--eat a hat
--never play another game of forum mafia ever again

If you lynch me, only the third option is on the table.  Because there's nothing more frustrating than being right for so long, having no one believe you, and then losing to that player.

Is this an ATE?  Absolutely.  Is it because I'm so incredibly frustrated that I am unable to convince anyone of anything anymore, when at one point in the history of f.ds mafia I was one of the absolute best players on the site?  Yes.  Am I conceited and terrible for saying something like that?  I don't think so -- I think many players who were here during those times would say I am making a fair statement.

I feel like one of those very elite athletes who doesn't retired before they aren't the best anymore; or come back from retirement to play even though they aren't as good as they used to be.  It's a terrible feeling, really, and I am pretty sure I made a huge mistake coming back to play mafia at all.  But man it is fun.

I'm sorry.

in what world is the concept of you agreeing to vote yourself tomorrow beneficial to town?
That is just saying your essentially gonna go pout in the corner if you are incorrect. If it is town v town on you and MiX and we follow you and lynch mix... like I get the ATE part... but there is no incentive here - you made a case... you don't need to like "levy it" with additional stuff not related to this game.

[Swowl]

Meh. I never liked the Yuma lynch. that was a mistake.

Waiting to hear from Swan now.

yes well obv mb. However, dylan did their RR and came to literally the exact same conclusion for the exact same reasons I did on Yuma... and I can 100% trust their read to at least be true... so I kind of could not *not* run with that.

[Swowl]

These are gonna be super short - I am incredibly hung over.

I apologize to anyone that shares MiX's mentality about my efforts, but it's not gonna stop... so...here is some stuff...

[MiX]

Or we could have won days ago by listening to me from the beginning.

Yes.

Also the ICs are terrible, sorry for saying that but I've had enough of Swan.

I submitted a kill for Swan yesterday. So I can't be super hidden scum.

Just lynch ash please I'm not even trying to push any mislynches I just knew yuma was a terrible lynch except no one fucking cares about what the 1v1 says.

LYNCH IN THE SCUMREADS AND NOT THE TOWNREADS TOWN.

Thank you and I'm tired of this game.

yes mix I am so sorry I started us off with 2 back to back correct skum finds and could not keep that pattern up.

secondly, your skum reams and your town reads... not "the skumreads" and "the townreads". I was following my skum reads.

and amazing... LL flips
Mix "omg that was a terrible lynch"
then Yuma flips
"omg that was a terrible lynch"


tldr; chill the eff out dude.

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

Yeah well whatever that thought process says you should lynch ash. The fact that Raptor had to save Joseph probably means the other scum was away, which is literally just cayvie in D1.

counter argument.

Vote: Yuma

Good argument. This time I can say I was right before the flip.

and I am not hiding information. I have a thought process leading to an idea. I am hiding the idea. and I am hiding it because it is equally valueless rn as it would be if it never got said, but after today, it could have value.

What was the idea?

Meh. I never liked the Yuma lynch. that was a mistake.

Waiting to hear from Swan now.

yes well obv mb. However, dylan did their RR and came to literally the exact same conclusion for the exact same reasons I did on Yuma... and I can 100% trust their read to at least be true... so I kind of could not *not* run with that.

One of me/ash is town, and we have a scumread on the other one. Also, by "true" you mean "not lying", ash went through this a couple days back. Just because town has a read doesn't mean they're right.

These are gonna be super short - I am incredibly hung over.

I apologize to anyone that shares MiX's mentality about my efforts, but it's not gonna stop... so...here is some stuff...

I think they're a waste of time. You can't vote ash out of VCA because cayvie didn't exist D1.

[scolapasta]

Meh. I never liked the Yuma lynch. that was a mistake.

Waiting to hear from Swan now.

yes well obv mb. However, dylan did their RR and came to literally the exact same conclusion for the exact same reasons I did on Yuma... and I can 100% trust their read to at least be true... so I kind of could not *not* run with that.

But was was your idea? of why we shoud definitely trust you and not lynch mix or ash?

[Swowl]

MiX starts Day 3 (like 3rd total post of the day) with this:

Massclaim, UB says nothing.

I am VT I already softclaimed this anyway. Whoever posts without claiming from now is the same as claiming VT, for obvious reasons.

Dylan and Swan are town. No idea why faust died. Raptor is easily scum, and so is yuma. More thoughts after massclaim.

Kind of a strange play for skum to take there right? Like, assuming mix is skum for this hypothetical... the plan would of been "Raptor you so screwed bro, I am gonna set up the Massclaim, hopefully we can out a PR or two, maybe you somehow even win the flip..." but end all raptor is lynched and Mix is left alone as the final and only skum.

There are two very interesting pieces of information we can look at there:

1) Why the eff would MiX, knowing they would be down to the wire if they were lukcy, get rid of their only potential remaining CC-out? They outright claimed VT. And then re stated it many times in the last few days here. Weird to get rid of your last ditch effort like that if skum.

2) Why say no UB claim? It ain't because MiX is gonna fake claim UB... they gave that out away. Also, if skum was gonna push the case on a mass claim... why put that in. Doesn't make sense.

Then follow all that up with Raptor then snap claims 1-shot doc... which... dumb if the plan was to set up the UB claim (even though that was thrown out right away). And thennnn... Mix sat on raptor all day... which again.. would be weird for the plan to be "let me set you up in a way that we get no information, incriminate no one in any way, and give you literally a 0% chance of not being the lynch."

That is all just one thing I know... but it has been sitting with me for a few days. Hard for me to paint a scenario with that info where mix is skum.


ppe: waste of time my foot. You should be defending yourself better not having me do it for you.

[MiX]

I will defend myself. The fact that I said to massclaim, and precisely how I said it, is completely NAI: town and scum me do this play. I claim VT as either alignment because I either know raptor will, or because I'm actually VT.

Scum!raptor already had the plan to claim 1-shot doctor, what I said publicly changed nothing for scum.

I said no UB claim because that's the town play, regardless of what I am.

I vote raptor because he's the one with the most heat. The only reason scum!raptor claims there is if he wants to be lynched while making it easy for scum to hide, as he had so much heat he was the only viable lynch that day. Me voting him is NAI. My interactions with him, however, are not.

This "analysis" is completely wrong and baseless, and the conclusion is that I'm town(y). Now you tell me why I'm wrong.

[Swowl]

I will defend myself. The fact that I said to massclaim, and precisely how I said it, is completely NAI: town and scum me do this play. I claim VT as either alignment because I either know raptor will, or because I'm actually VT.

Scum!raptor already had the plan to claim 1-shot doctor, what I said publicly changed nothing for scum.

I said no UB claim because that's the town play, regardless of what I am.

I vote raptor because he's the one with the most heat. The only reason scum!raptor claims there is if he wants to be lynched while making it easy for scum to hide, as he had so much heat he was the only viable lynch that day. Me voting him is NAI. My interactions with him, however, are not.

This "analysis" is completely wrong and baseless, and the conclusion is that I'm town(y). Now you tell me why I'm wrong.

because you're wrong?
My finding you towny for adding in something "completely good for town"... makes me lean town.
You getting rid of your only late claim block as VT is not NAI... skum!mix would absolutely of thought that through... makes me lean town...
The fact that if you were in cahoots with raptor there was no reason for you to do any of the above for a bus, you could of just... bussed... that makes me lean town.....

I don't get what you are not "getting" here.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, Swan. If MiX is town, who do you want to lynch?

[MiX]

I will defend myself. The fact that I said to massclaim, and precisely how I said it, is completely NAI: town and scum me do this play. I claim VT as either alignment because I either know raptor will, or because I'm actually VT.

Scum!raptor already had the plan to claim 1-shot doctor, what I said publicly changed nothing for scum.

I said no UB claim because that's the town play, regardless of what I am.

I vote raptor because he's the one with the most heat. The only reason scum!raptor claims there is if he wants to be lynched while making it easy for scum to hide, as he had so much heat he was the only viable lynch that day. Me voting him is NAI. My interactions with him, however, are not.

This "analysis" is completely wrong and baseless, and the conclusion is that I'm town(y). Now you tell me why I'm wrong.

because you're wrong?
My finding you towny for adding in something "completely good for town"... makes me lean town.
You getting rid of your only late claim block as VT is not NAI... skum!mix would absolutely of thought that through... makes me lean town...
The fact that if you were in cahoots with raptor there was no reason for you to do any of the above for a bus, you could of just... bussed... that makes me lean town.....

I don't get what you are not "getting" here.

It's just something that I also do as scum. It's mechanical play, going through the motions sort of stuff. It's clear that scum was thinking about claiming, as raptor claimed, which means they were thinking about a massclaim...which means I can easily say that as scum.

I didn't mean to claim not UB that day, which lets me backpedal if I need to. But seriously, at that point scum can't really claim UB, and it's towny to claim VT D4 (as I did) so I would do it as scum as well. Sure, I could keep the option until LyLo, but then I can't self-pres on LL or something. Also I might randomly kill UB or they claim before LyLo and then it's all for nothing.

I could have just bussed, or I could have said "let's massclaim" and then bus. There's nothing stopping scum from doing either. In fact, scum!me would only do this path, as it's the path that looks towniest to me, and I always do the thing that looks towniest to me as scum.

You can say that those actions make me less likely to be scum, but I'm here to say, not really.

PPE: Asking the right questions, love it.

[Swowl]

I will defend myself. The fact that I said to massclaim, and precisely how I said it, is completely NAI: town and scum me do this play. I claim VT as either alignment because I either know raptor will, or because I'm actually VT.

Scum!raptor already had the plan to claim 1-shot doctor, what I said publicly changed nothing for scum.

I said no UB claim because that's the town play, regardless of what I am.

I vote raptor because he's the one with the most heat. The only reason scum!raptor claims there is if he wants to be lynched while making it easy for scum to hide, as he had so much heat he was the only viable lynch that day. Me voting him is NAI. My interactions with him, however, are not.

This "analysis" is completely wrong and baseless, and the conclusion is that I'm town(y). Now you tell me why I'm wrong.

because you're wrong?
My finding you towny for adding in something "completely good for town"... makes me lean town.
You getting rid of your only late claim block as VT is not NAI... skum!mix would absolutely of thought that through... makes me lean town...
The fact that if you were in cahoots with raptor there was no reason for you to do any of the above for a bus, you could of just... bussed... that makes me lean town.....

I don't get what you are not "getting" here.

also, I am just gonna dial it back. That is something that has been bugging me for a bit, so I wanted it typed. You want ash lynched, ash wants you lynched.
Either you are both town and genuinely frustrated, or only one of you is genuine and the other is ATEing the shit out of it.

Because of that, and the fact that I do not know which it is, if that last part came off as snaky, thats mb. Whether you are genuinely frustrated or faking it, either way I should not play into like that. So, sorry about that.

[MiX]

It's fine Swan, it's clear that I'm the one on the offensive. I just wish you didn't do whatever you wanted without consulting the thread. I understand that one of us is scum, but that means any townreads we give are genuine.

I'm just upset you completely ignored me yesterday, and now we're still doing this. I think you should be more open about your agenda. We're all town here! Scum doesn't care who's lynched as long as it's not them. So you should listen to everyone for their reads.

[Dylan32]

The first time I saw someone argue against someone trying to give them towncred, they were scum. It was me, and I rode that all the way to my only MVP and first scum win.  Since then, I don't recall ever seeing anyone other than scum do that unless it was to point out a logical flaw that was messing up other reads beyond just that person.

[Swowl]

I will defend myself. The fact that I said to massclaim, and precisely how I said it, is completely NAI: town and scum me do this play. I claim VT as either alignment because I either know raptor will, or because I'm actually VT.

Scum!raptor already had the plan to claim 1-shot doctor, what I said publicly changed nothing for scum.

I said no UB claim because that's the town play, regardless of what I am.

I vote raptor because he's the one with the most heat. The only reason scum!raptor claims there is if he wants to be lynched while making it easy for scum to hide, as he had so much heat he was the only viable lynch that day. Me voting him is NAI. My interactions with him, however, are not.

This "analysis" is completely wrong and baseless, and the conclusion is that I'm town(y). Now you tell me why I'm wrong.

because you're wrong?
My finding you towny for adding in something "completely good for town"... makes me lean town.
You getting rid of your only late claim block as VT is not NAI... skum!mix would absolutely of thought that through... makes me lean town...
The fact that if you were in cahoots with raptor there was no reason for you to do any of the above for a bus, you could of just... bussed... that makes me lean town.....

I don't get what you are not "getting" here.

It's just something that I also do as scum. It's mechanical play, going through the motions sort of stuff. It's clear that scum was thinking about claiming, as raptor claimed, which means they were thinking about a massclaim...which means I can easily say that as scum.

I didn't mean to claim not UB that day, which lets me backpedal if I need to. But seriously, at that point scum can't really claim UB, and it's towny to claim VT D4 (as I did) so I would do it as scum as well. Sure, I could keep the option until LyLo, but then I can't self-pres on LL or something. Also I might randomly kill UB or they claim before LyLo and then it's all for nothing.

I could have just bussed, or I could have said "let's massclaim" and then bus. There's nothing stopping scum from doing either. In fact, scum!me would only do this path, as it's the path that looks towniest to me, and I always do the thing that looks towniest to me as scum.

You can say that those actions make me less likely to be scum, but I'm here to say, not really.

PPE: Asking the right questions, love it.

I am not you. They are my perceptions of you. I have no way of knowing what you say you would do to be true or not, I have to work with the info I have.

and yes, understood about the "one of us have to be skum" which, and don't take this the wrong way, but because I don't know your alignment, it makes it hard for me to utilize your opinion of anyone at this point. hope that makes sense.

[MiX]

The first time I saw someone argue against someone trying to give them towncred, they were scum. It was me, and I rode that all the way to my only MVP and first scum win.  Since then, I don't recall ever seeing anyone other than scum do that unless it was to point out a logical flaw that was messing up other reads beyond just that person.

Welcome to MiX, please enjoy your stay. I will argue for the truth regardless, for I know that the truth is above all. Only scum would hide in fake towncred.

[Swowl]

Meh. I never liked the Yuma lynch. that was a mistake.

Waiting to hear from Swan now.

yes well obv mb. However, dylan did their RR and came to literally the exact same conclusion for the exact same reasons I did on Yuma... and I can 100% trust their read to at least be true... so I kind of could not *not* run with that.

But was was your idea? of why we shoud definitely trust you and not lynch mix or ash?

Oh you do not have to trust me on anything - I openly admit I am officially frustrated with this game. I am trying best I can, but you can absolutely do you, i am not Teproc or something (I am not gonna sheriff about).

and hold on next part is coming in a sec.

ppe 3-4 something

[Swowl]

OK here is the thing. All bullshit aside.

Let's say we are going to lynch Ash/MiX today. Fine, I actually am ok with this at this point.

UB needs to claim right now.

Reasoning coming...

[Dylan32]

@Ash about your post about your skills declining or former reputation and everything: Dude, your reputation is part of what makes it hard to trust you sometimes because I believe you to be one of the better scum players on f.ds.  I've always been afraid to sheep you're reads unless you had some serious towncred built up because I try to be extra careful to not be duped by players better than myself (which to be fair I think is most people).  So if today happens to end with you being lynched instead of MiX and you flip town, as long as your read is right and MiX then flips scum, don't take it as an insult and leave, because I personally enjoy you being in the game. It instantly makes me think harder, even when I disagree with you or think you may be wrong.

Another thing, I feel like (if you're town) you are at a disadvantage to some extent both in terms of forming reads and being read since you were a post-D1 sub, since you lose the wagon timing context like has been talked about and we lose seeing how you would have reacted to what turns out to have been the central wagon to this whole game.  Maybe if you had been in D1, you're play would have given you more towncred to make it easy to choose between you and MiX.

It's been hard for me to decide in part because early on in the raptor vs me stuff, MiX was one of the people that seemed to be making the most sense, and even though I know it isn't, it's hard not to read that agreement as towny.

On a related tangent, this game can be hard for a person who naturally tries to get people to get along lol

ppe 4

[Swowl]

Essentially it prevents a situation from occurring where we get a counter claim in Mylo/Lylo. Here is just an example:

I am, as I have been since Day 4, essentially certain that ASH is the UB here. If not, then I wrong whatever, but there are only 2 remaining people it can be at this point. If we claim today, we GTD that even with a CC Town wins the game. We cannot do that if we wait past today.


The main part of the plan was to have Yuma claim at L-1. If they claimed UB and there was a CC, we lynch Yuma and win either way. Apologies for the plan not being like crazy or anything, but obviously the main idea was to follow skum read on the last day we could afford to on a player that could still fake (or not fake) claim the UB option, thus potentially creating a safe CC situation for us.

Today's fall back plan was always just to claim because it makes no sense not to.

ppe dylan

[MiX]

If ash is UB they should claim so that they become an IC and I'm lynched. That's the pro-ash play, and why I know he's not UB. If he is, damn, I guess I'm mislynched. But I haven't been wrong that much (I did vote LL) this game, I don't think ash would do all this as UB.

That's kinda why I wanted to talk about things yesterday, I understood that you thought ash was UB since he and scola are the only ones that can be UB at this point. But instead of relying on that chance, you should read him, and you would see his play and his lack of claim make him not UB.

If he is I'll eat a hat as well.

[Dylan32]

Yeah, the point I realized scola and Ash were the only two that could be it (barring town lying well after the UB claims VT massclaim) was when I dropped being too suspicious of scola. Unless Ash is doing like he mentioned about the doc wanting town to figure it out for themselves instead of just claiming and handing it to them, at this point I'm pretty confident it's scola.  I wasn't going to say anything about this, but since y'all already threw it out there, might as well.

[Swowl]

If ash is UB they should claim so that they become an IC and I'm lynched. That's the pro-ash play, and why I know he's not UB. If he is, damn, I guess I'm mislynched. But I haven't been wrong that much (I did vote LL) this game, I don't think ash would do all this as UB.

That's kinda why I wanted to talk about things yesterday, I understood that you thought ash was UB since he and scola are the only ones that can be UB at this point. But instead of relying on that chance, you should read him, and you would see his play and his lack of claim make him not UB.

If he is I'll eat a hat as well.

well one way or another I guess someone gonna have to buy a hat.


also - that is a good specification.

Ash should absolutely be the first one to claim here.

[Swowl]

Yeah, the point I realized scola and Ash were the only two that could be it (barring town lying well after the UB claims VT massclaim) was when I dropped being too suspicious of scola. Unless Ash is doing like he mentioned about the doc wanting town to figure it out for themselves instead of just claiming and handing it to them, at this point I'm pretty confident it's scola.  I wasn't going to say anything about this, but since y'all already threw it out there, might as well.

well it doesn't do any harm now to bring it up, as it down to only those 2. When yuma was still in the mix, it made it more complicated.

[Dylan32]

Yeah, the point I realized scola and Ash were the only two that could be it (barring town lying well after the UB claims VT massclaim) was when I dropped being too suspicious of scola. Unless Ash is doing like he mentioned about the doc wanting town to figure it out for themselves instead of just claiming and handing it to them, at this point I'm pretty confident it's scola.  I wasn't going to say anything about this, but since y'all already threw it out there, might as well.

well it doesn't do any harm now to bring it up, as it down to only those 2. When yuma was still in the mix, it made it more complicated.

I mean sure. It obviously wasn't too hard to figure out since at least 3 of us did, but a reason not to (if scum was actually using the NK lol) would be to force possibly noob or lazy scum to figure it out on their own.  Of course, it also doesn't matter since they would have me as basically good as an IC target right now, so that wouldn't matter now either way I guess.

[MiX]

Yeah, the point I realized scola and Ash were the only two that could be it (barring town lying well after the UB claims VT massclaim) was when I dropped being too suspicious of scola. Unless Ash is doing like he mentioned about the doc wanting town to figure it out for themselves instead of just claiming and handing it to them, at this point I'm pretty confident it's scola.  I wasn't going to say anything about this, but since y'all already threw it out there, might as well.

well it doesn't do any harm now to bring it up, as it down to only those 2. When yuma was still in the mix, it made it more complicated.

yuma claimed he wasn't UB early yesterday, when he said that we (me and yuma) had already claimed to not be UB at the D3 massclaim.

[Dylan32]

Yeah, the point I realized scola and Ash were the only two that could be it (barring town lying well after the UB claims VT massclaim) was when I dropped being too suspicious of scola. Unless Ash is doing like he mentioned about the doc wanting town to figure it out for themselves instead of just claiming and handing it to them, at this point I'm pretty confident it's scola.  I wasn't going to say anything about this, but since y'all already threw it out there, might as well.

well it doesn't do any harm now to bring it up, as it down to only those 2. When yuma was still in the mix, it made it more complicated.

yuma claimed he wasn't UB early yesterday, when he said that we (me and yuma) had already claimed to not be UB at the D3 massclaim.

At the D3 massclaim the UB was supposed to say VT I thought, but yeah yuma did specify not UB.

[Swowl]

Yeah, the point I realized scola and Ash were the only two that could be it (barring town lying well after the UB claims VT massclaim) was when I dropped being too suspicious of scola. Unless Ash is doing like he mentioned about the doc wanting town to figure it out for themselves instead of just claiming and handing it to them, at this point I'm pretty confident it's scola.  I wasn't going to say anything about this, but since y'all already threw it out there, might as well.

well it doesn't do any harm now to bring it up, as it down to only those 2. When yuma was still in the mix, it made it more complicated.

yuma claimed he wasn't UB early yesterday, when he said that we (me and yuma) had already claimed to not be UB at the D3 massclaim.

At the D3 massclaim the UB was supposed to say VT I thought, but yeah yuma did specify not UB.

this was kind of my thought, based on the wording, obviously I was over paranoid about it.

[ashersky]

I am, as I have been since Day 4, essentially certain that ASH is the UB here.

Is that timing correct?  You voted me on Day 4, and on Day 5, no?

I do like your thinking, though.

[Dylan32]

I am, as I have been since Day 4, essentially certain that ASH is the UB here.

Is that timing correct?  You voted me on Day 4, and on Day 5, no?

I do like your thinking, though.

Is his thinking correct or not though? The quality of the thought matters much less than the accuracy of the thought right now.

[Swowl]

It is correct.
I did not vote ash.
I pushed the LL case all day. Never voted anyone else.

[Swowl]

It is correct.
I did not vote ash.
I pushed the LL case all day. Never voted anyone else.

on day 4 to be clear.
On day 5 I voted no one until Yuma.

Not certain how my *accurate* not-misinterpretation of how I got to my end point is relevant here though. What is important, is Ash makes a claim.

[Swowl]

I am, as I have been since Day 4, essentially certain that ASH is the UB here.

Is that timing correct?  You voted me on Day 4, and on Day 5, no?

I do like your thinking, though.

Is his thinking correct or not though? The quality of the thought matters much less than the accuracy of the thought right now.

lol right... this.

[ashersky]

Ash hasn't made a claim up to this point.

I am, as I have been since Day 4, essentially certain that ASH is the UB here.

Is that timing correct?  You voted me on Day 4, and on Day 5, no?

I do like your thinking, though.

Is his thinking correct or not though? The quality of the thought matters much less than the accuracy of the thought right now.

DS is absolutely correct to not vote me and to believe I'm town.  I also agree in principle with DS's UB claiming reasoning.  I also like how DS was thinking I was the UB, which makes a lot of sense to think from an outside perspective.

Does that help?

[ashersky]

It is correct.
I did not vote ash.
I pushed the LL case all day. Never voted anyone else.

on day 4 to be clear.
On day 5 I voted no one until Yuma.

Not certain how my *accurate* not-misinterpretation of how I got to my end point is relevant here though. What is important, is Ash makes a claim.

Okay.  I believe you -- I'm thinking of WCD maybe, who flipflopped?

[ashersky]

Anything else need clarification right now?

[Swowl]

Anything else need clarification right now?

lol yes....

[Swowl]

while I appreciate your reasoning of my thought process, if it is genuine, then you understand the validity in my insisting on you claiming UB. Or not I suppose. But you need to claim. We only have 5 day days, and I cannot come up with a single thing - nor can anyone else, yourself so far included, new to discuss or talk about.

so the clarification is I would like you to claim UB or not. Pretty please.

[ashersky]

I do not claim to be the UB.

[Swowl]

Awesome. Thank you.
Dylan should probably confirm but i think the best play would now be for scolapasta to speak.

[Dylan32]

Awesome. Thank you.
Dylan should probably confirm but i think the best play would now be for scolapasta to speak.

Yup. I have nothing more to say until they do.

[MiX]

Awesome. Thank you.
Dylan should probably confirm but i think the best play would now be for scolapasta to speak.

Yup. I have nothing more to say until they do.

We can wait for yet another IC to speak.

Or we can lynch scum and end this game.

As you can see from the previous 2 days, ICs talking does not equate to scum flipping, or even PoE dropping. I'm still alive, ash's still alive.

But sure we can drag this day more.

[WestCoastDidds]

It is correct.
I did not vote ash.
I pushed the LL case all day. Never voted anyone else.

on day 4 to be clear.
On day 5 I voted no one until Yuma.

Not certain how my *accurate* not-misinterpretation of how I got to my end point is relevant here though. What is important, is Ash makes a claim.

Okay.  I believe you -- I'm thinking of WCD maybe, who flipflopped?

That would be me, flippity floppity

[MiX]

It is correct.
I did not vote ash.
I pushed the LL case all day. Never voted anyone else.

on day 4 to be clear.
On day 5 I voted no one until Yuma.

Not certain how my *accurate* not-misinterpretation of how I got to my end point is relevant here though. What is important, is Ash makes a claim.

Okay.  I believe you -- I'm thinking of WCD maybe, who flipflopped?

That would be me, flippity floppity

Hey, don't steal my style!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 6.1

ashersky (1): MiX
MiX (2): ashersky, WestCoastDidds

Not Voting (3): Dylan32, DatSwan, scolapasta

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Six ends at 12 am forum time May 11th.

[scolapasta]

I have a busy day today, but will be posting some thoughts later today / tonight.

[scolapasta]

OK, so here are my thoughts:

we have one scum.

Either it's one of ash or mix, or it's not. It feels to me that I'm not the only one here who is skeptical of lynching them both, i.e suspecting ti could be one of the "bloc". Otherwise we'd have done that. In fact, we should have dome it yesterday, and I blame myself for accepting the yuma wagon and hammering there. That was a big mistake.

But I suspect it wasn't just that - I suspect it was Swan purposefully steering us that way. Because he knows that if he could get rid of yuma first, it'd be easier to convince us to finish with two lynches of ash and mix.  i.e if we go the other way, and first lynch ash and mix and they are both town, then he may in fact not get us to go yuma at Lylo.

What's my evidence?

well, first the above that I really don't understand why he was so strong to not want to lynch ash or mix. It wasn't a I prefer yuma, it was an "I won't vote for ash or mix".

if I am forced to every lynch between MiX and Ash my mind is made on who it is. I will not be lynching either today.

I mean, what? I get having a strong preference, but there was enough evidence against any of the three. So why so definitive?

Again, because of the above. Get yuma out of the way first and then the ash/mix sell is easy. There was even a secret plan. Biut what was it?

Essentially it prevents a situation from occurring where we get a counter claim in Mylo/Lylo. Here is just an example:

I am, as I have been since Day 4, essentially certain that ASH is the UB here. If not, then I wrong whatever, but there are only 2 remaining people it can be at this point. If we claim today, we GTD that even with a CC Town wins the game. We cannot do that if we wait past today.


The main part of the plan was to have Yuma claim at L-1. If they claimed UB and there was a CC, we lynch Yuma and win either way. Apologies for the plan not being like crazy or anything, but obviously the main idea was to follow skum read on the last day we could afford to on a player that could still fake (or not fake) claim the UB option, thus potentially creating a safe CC situation for us.

Today's fall back plan was always just to claim because it makes no sense not to.

ppe dylan

To have Yuma claim UB? But he was convinced Ash was UB. So why not do the same thing with Ash or MiX, instead? With Ash we'd get the real claim, and have yet one more IC. Or if he's scum, the same plan fits.

Also, I believe he is has been one of those saying "only Ash or Mix" would do this no NK. This really sounds like framing them. I mean the first night, as was argued by MiX actually did make sense for a no NK from scum, and we should have followed through. We didn't because people seemed like it would be a stalemate. But really having an even number of people during the day seems advantageous to scum.

On that note, I'd be fine with a no lynch today again; let's force scum's hand. They no nk, we no lynch. Who cares if it's boring? At some point the mod will have to step in.

Now it could be that it is just one of ash or mix after all (in that I lean towards it being ash). But if it, you know what, that's a little boring, even if we win. But lynching scum!Swan who has secretly been toying with us all game? That to me sounds exciting.

Let's not forget that after D1, Swan wanted us to lynch Dylan vs Raptor. He's the one that led the lynch on LaLight (again when ash and mix were better targets). And then again on Yuma.

Swan, I'm on to you.

Here's my last piece of evidence. Read directly, it seemed at first like townslip... but read another way, it's ingenious:

Post #272

To someone who's played with him, does MiX usually jump his vote around like this?

Of the two wagons, I like Vote: WCD more than LL at this point.

elaborate on why?

OMGUS voting Lalight... has nothing to do with reactions.

Vote: LaLight

vote: Lalight

If that is the choice vote: LaLight

What is there to like about that wagon?

I read lalight and got zero town vibes, or rather no vibes. I'll be honest this game is weird and scumhuntimg is hard. So I am town hunting. Lalight doesn't seem townie.

Yep I agree that LL is scummier than WCD

... then why you on didds?

Because I was on didds from earlier on. And don't like putting people on L2

So wait just clarifying. That was not sarcasm? You think LL is more likely skum than WCD, with 15 hours to DL, and you are voting for the person you find to be more likely skum... bc you were on them already and don’t like putting people at L2?

That is just giving yourself an open door to vote for whoever you want with essentially no reason at all.

Vote: Dylan

Post #272:

Vote: Joseph

Got the players mixed up.

Here he want's us to think that he got the players mixed up? Why? Because scum!Dylan would know Joseph was scum, and not mix them up, but town!Dylan could easily make this mistake. So we read this and subconsciously think he's town.


Well, there's my case? Anyone with me?

(I have Cinco de Mayo dinner plans, but I'll be interested to see what every makes of these arguments some time later tonight.)

[MiX]

Lynch ash first.

Then I can listen.

[Swowl]

1) Regardless of any case you want to make on anyone. It does not change the fact that from a Town POV - doing the UB claim is 100% in Town's favor. Like now. So go ahead and make your weak case, but you still need to claim.

2) none of that is evidence. it is 100% taking things that were done and either forgetting the timeline of events, dropping out key parts that were stated and recorded, or just straight up twisting my words into a misleading way.

[Swowl]

Lynch ash first.

Then I can listen.

Your telling me right now you would rather lynch ash than scola if scola doesn't claim?

[Swowl]

and you can replace "scola vs ash" or anyone really if it helps make my point. If ash had refused to claim I would of said lynch them right there as well.

[MiX]

I forgot scola didn't claim.

Can the UB claim right now holy shit.

[Swowl]

same reasons as Ash specifically first.
I think now it should be specifically scola.
after that 100% population has made a role claim and we can take it from there.

That is my opinion at least.

[Swowl]

OK, so here are my thoughts:

we have one scum.

Either it's one of ash or mix, or it's not. It feels to me that I'm not the only one here who is skeptical of lynching them both, i.e suspecting ti could be one of the "bloc". Otherwise we'd have done that. In fact, we should have dome it yesterday, and I blame myself for accepting the yuma wagon and hammering there. That was a big mistake.

But I suspect it wasn't just that - I suspect it was Swan purposefully steering us that way. Because he knows that if he could get rid of yuma first, it'd be easier to convince us to finish with two lynches of ash and mix.  i.e if we go the other way, and first lynch ash and mix and they are both town, then he may in fact not get us to go yuma at Lylo.

- First example of twisting events and misleading info. a) I did not need to set up a mix/ash scenario... I strongly fought against it. If I had wanted to "set up" ash/mix, the job was done already. Why would I "get yuma out of the way first"? That makes zero sense in the reality of the situation.
- Secondly, I did not in any way create the bloc idea. i said I had an idea, i logged back in, and stated plainly it no longer mattered because of the claims that happened while I was asleep. then someone else created "the bloc" (don't remember who), and put me on it. I was in no way involved in that.

[Swowl]

well, first the above that I really don't understand why he was so strong to not want to lynch ash or mix. It wasn't a I prefer yuma, it was an "I won't vote for ash or mix".

- How in the world do you expect people to swallow this statement? I pushed Yuma's lynch through! Ofc I freeking "preferred yuma to ash/mix". that's what that means man. like what?!?!

if I am forced to every lynch between MiX and Ash my mind is made on who it is. I will not be lynching either today.

I mean, what? I get having a strong preference, but there was enough evidence against any of the three. So why so definitive?

- I am pretty sure i like answered this question to a fairly obvious point like 10-15 posts ago. Also, this is a non-point. As in it literally means nothing.

[Swowl]

To have Yuma claim UB? But he was convinced Ash was UB. So why not do the same thing with Ash or MiX, instead? With Ash we'd get the real claim, and have yet one more IC. Or if he's scum, the same plan fits.

- I actually cannot tell if this part is you twisting or just not understanding the situation. a) Not going to do the thing with MiX, same way as I wouldn't with anyone that already claimed VT, as it would have no effect. b) If I do it with Ash, obviously assuming they claim, I have removed the power ash has to counter claim against skum trying to use UB as a defense. So I picked yuma - because I thought she was skummy for all the case reasons I made, and the choices between outside non-VT claimed players were you and her. She won the skum point game by a landslide.
- Here is a question for you - If I am skum, then yuma, ash, and Mix are all town. why would I like... bother doing anything that you are stating here. Again with this point, but I could of just said "I know who I want to lynch in MiX and Ash" then gone there. Or fuck, I could of said NOTHING and it would of been accepted when I just randomly vote one of them. Why would I do things this way?

[Swowl]

Also, I believe he is has been one of those saying "only Ash or Mix" would do this no NK. This really sounds like framing them.

- more examples of just blinding throwing accusations. How can I be framing them in this instance when everyone already was aware of their 1v1 that they made for each other.
- Secondly, and MOST IMPORTANTLY... incorrect. I cannot recall if I said one of them may be able of doing it, but I certainly never said it was only them... I think. But I am pretty sure that is true. IDK man you are the one building the "case" you go search for it if I said it. Until then, I am going with "I didn't say that".

Let's not forget that after D1, Swan wanted us to lynch Dylan vs Raptor. He's the one that led the lynch on LaLight (again when ash and mix were better targets). And then again on Yuma.
Swan, I'm on to you.

- hahahaha ok. you wanna talk about let's not forget? let me correct you on almost everything here that you wrote.
First off - On day one I was the ONLY driving force to move for the skum Joseph Lynch.
On Day Two - I continued to pound EXACTLY for Joseph on sound logic that even though Raptor was skummy as fuck, it made no sense to lynch Raptor then Joseph, It should be Joseph and then Raptor.
On Day 3 - I started on Dylan because I thought his claim was absolutely asinine. Then, half way through the day, to some points people made, I SWITCHED TO RAPTOR.
-----------So up to that point your skum narrative for me is pretty much...

Step 1 - On Day 1 just chill and wait until the last second when wagons were tied 4 and 4 with WCD (who I can't be skum with if I am skum), and LL (who, why the fuck would I leave that town wagon to my buddy Joseph out of the blue). Then, instead of doing literally anything else at all - I created a brand new in depth case on a brand new unlooked at player (Joseph) and pounded and pursued to to lynch my mate?

Step 2 - I then continue to push it? Like I say nope - still 100% on Joseph, and then we should probably lynch raptor. Cuz that makes sense.

Step 3 - I SWITCH TO RAPTOR, when I could of just kept pounding Dylan?

- So like up until Day 4, I literally choose, not forced, not in a weird spot not anything... I CHOOSE to pick the absolute best route to completely fuck my faction over?

And then yes, to your point LL and Yuma. I have already made my cases for both of them in depth and posted them, so you can reference them if you need to. My argument in general would be that it is a whole hell of a lot harder to find 2 skum in 12-14 players than it is to find 2 town in 6-8 players.



I am not even going to merit your last portion with a response past this, which is the truth - I have no damn clue why I got them mixed up. Just happened. But it was a strange closing point as it was the weakest of all your weak points.

[Swowl]

k done. that would of bugged me until I responded to it.

Happy cinco everyone.

[Dylan32]

Swan, it bugs me a bit when you talk about being the sole reason we pushed for Joseph D1. You voted him at post 273 and gave a single reason. I posted an iso and case at #301, Didds joined the wagon at #304, then you're big case was at #316 and then MiX jumped on the wagon at #305.  So we share the credit for that wagon.  Also, it's intriguing that scola didn't claim and threw shade outside of the apparent 1v1 against the guy with one of the strongest pro-town narratives.

[Swowl]

Fair enough on the credit.
And yes it is weird.

[MiX]

Talking about Swan's all fine and dandy but it's really not for today. I guess it doesn't matter.

I like how we had everyone talk by now and no one claimed UB. Did we miss something?

[Swowl]

Talking about Swan's all fine and dandy but it's really not for today. I guess it doesn't matter.

I like how we had everyone talk by now and no one claimed UB. Did we miss something?

Scola said peace for cinco de drinko.
We are just chatting. Everyone should n same page. Scola is claiming.

[scolapasta]

OK, so here are my thoughts:

we have one scum.

Either it's one of ash or mix, or it's not. It feels to me that I'm not the only one here who is skeptical of lynching them both, i.e suspecting ti could be one of the "bloc". Otherwise we'd have done that. In fact, we should have dome it yesterday, and I blame myself for accepting the yuma wagon and hammering there. That was a big mistake.

But I suspect it wasn't just that - I suspect it was Swan purposefully steering us that way. Because he knows that if he could get rid of yuma first, it'd be easier to convince us to finish with two lynches of ash and mix.  i.e if we go the other way, and first lynch ash and mix and they are both town, then he may in fact not get us to go yuma at Lylo.

- First example of twisting events and misleading info. a) I did not need to set up a mix/ash scenario... I strongly fought against it. If I had wanted to "set up" ash/mix, the job was done already. Why would I "get yuma out of the way first"? That makes zero sense in the reality of the situation.
- Secondly, I did not in any way create the bloc idea. i said I had an idea, i logged back in, and stated plainly it no longer mattered because of the claims that happened while I was asleep. then someone else created "the bloc" (don't remember who), and put me on it. I was in no way involved in that.

on the first, what I'm trying to say is we had ash vs mix (as of D4) and you've steered us away from it for 2 days now, first with LaLight, then with yuma. I am asserting the reason is that it benefits you to keep them both in the game. rather than have had fairly town seeming yuma and the 4 rest of us be the final 5. At that point trying to cast me, wcd, or yuma as scum is MUCH harder than whoever is left of mix or ash. So keep them in the game until the end.

RE: bloc, It was me - and maybe it was a mistake. But I'm not sure saying you did not create or wasn't involved has anything to do with anything. Except as an honest statement that makes it seem like you have credibility, when it's irrelevant.

well, first the above that I really don't understand why he was so strong to not want to lynch ash or mix. It wasn't a I prefer yuma, it was an "I won't vote for ash or mix".

- How in the world do you expect people to swallow this statement? I pushed Yuma's lynch through! Ofc I freeking "preferred yuma to ash/mix". that's what that means man. like what?!?!

if I am forced to every lynch between MiX and Ash my mind is made on who it is. I will not be lynching either today.

I mean, what? I get having a strong preference, but there was enough evidence against any of the three. So why so definitive?

- I am pretty sure i like answered this question to a fairly obvious point like 10-15 posts ago. Also, this is a non-point. As in it literally means nothing.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. I am saying that you pushed for yuma instead of either ash or mix. You claimed it was due to a secret reason. And then that reason turned out to be fairly week. (trying to get yuma to claim UB at L-1). I mean, 1) if he was scum, there's no way he claims as that a GTD loss. if he's UB, you've outed him a day early.

My "undigestable" statement was that you stated reasons weren't really sold as you preferred yuma, they were sold as you would not lynch either of the other two. At the time, with strong feelings that the 4 of us were safe, it really should not have mattered much the order of those three, yet you chose to lead a lynch against the one who was seeming most towny. And I am arguing you did that because it benefited you as scum

To have Yuma claim UB? But he was convinced Ash was UB. So why not do the same thing with Ash or MiX, instead? With Ash we'd get the real claim, and have yet one more IC. Or if he's scum, the same plan fits.

- I actually cannot tell if this part is you twisting or just not understanding the situation. a) Not going to do the thing with MiX, same way as I wouldn't with anyone that already claimed VT, as it would have no effect. b) If I do it with Ash, obviously assuming they claim, I have removed the power ash has to counter claim against skum trying to use UB as a defense. So I picked yuma - because I thought she was skummy for all the case reasons I made, and the choices between outside non-VT claimed players were you and her. She won the skum point game by a landslide.
- Here is a question for you - If I am skum, then yuma, ash, and Mix are all town. why would I like... bother doing anything that you are stating here. Again with this point, but I could of just said "I know who I want to lynch in MiX and Ash" then gone there. Or fuck, I could of said NOTHING and it would of been accepted when I just randomly vote one of them. Why would I do things this way?

I've explained why I think you did it that way. I get that it could be very, very wrong. But you can't act like I didn't explain a reason. In fact to make things easy, I'll summarize all my reasons in the post after this, without all these quotes.

Also, I believe he is has been one of those saying "only Ash or Mix" would do this no NK. This really sounds like framing them.

- more examples of just blinding throwing accusations. How can I be framing them in this instance when everyone already was aware of their 1v1 that they made for each other.
- Secondly, and MOST IMPORTANTLY... incorrect. I cannot recall if I said one of them may be able of doing it, but I certainly never said it was only them... I think. But I am pretty sure that is true. IDK man you are the one building the "case" you go search for it if I said it. Until then, I am going with "I didn't say that".

Let's not forget that after D1, Swan wanted us to lynch Dylan vs Raptor. He's the one that led the lynch on LaLight (again when ash and mix were better targets). And then again on Yuma.
Swan, I'm on to you.

- hahahaha ok. you wanna talk about let's not forget? let me correct you on almost everything here that you wrote.
First off - On day one I was the ONLY driving force to move for the skum Joseph Lynch.
On Day Two - I continued to pound EXACTLY for Joseph on sound logic that even though Raptor was skummy as fuck, it made no sense to lynch Raptor then Joseph, It should be Joseph and then Raptor.
On Day 3 - I started on Dylan because I thought his claim was absolutely asinine. Then, half way through the day, to some points people made, I SWITCHED TO RAPTOR.
-----------So up to that point your skum narrative for me is pretty much...

Step 1 - On Day 1 just chill and wait until the last second when wagons were tied 4 and 4 with WCD (who I can't be skum with if I am skum), and LL (who, why the fuck would I leave that town wagon to my buddy Joseph out of the blue). Then, instead of doing literally anything else at all - I created a brand new in depth case on a brand new unlooked at player (Joseph) and pounded and pursued to to lynch my mate?

Step 2 - I then continue to push it? Like I say nope - still 100% on Joseph, and then we should probably lynch raptor. Cuz that makes sense.

Step 3 - I SWITCH TO RAPTOR, when I could of just kept pounding Dylan?

- So like up until Day 4, I literally choose, not forced, not in a weird spot not anything... I CHOOSE to pick the absolute best route to completely fuck my faction over?

And then yes, to your point LL and Yuma. I have already made my cases for both of them in depth and posted them, so you can reference them if you need to. My argument in general would be that it is a whole hell of a lot harder to find 2 skum in 12-14 players than it is to find 2 town in 6-8 players.



I am not even going to merit your last portion with a response past this, which is the truth - I have no damn clue why I got them mixed up. Just happened. But it was a strange closing point as it was the weakest of all your weak points.

I'll have to look for the quote on ash and Mix being the ones to do this. It's possible I misremember. But this "let me correct you on almost everything here that you wrote": I never said anything about Day 1. I did have a typo where I said "after D1" where I meant after D2" but even then that doesn't include D1. So I'm not sure why any D1 stuff is there as a correction. And hopefully it should've been clear that I mean D3 is when you were pushing Dylan over Raptor.

And my point here was just this: scum!swan knows raptors going down. So you try to point us towards Dylan to get one more day out of it. (if we don't lynch dylan, we get an IC). It failed, and when you saw that you switch because otherwise you would look more guilty.

SO next will be the simplifed follow up post. Since this one is probably a mess.

[scolapasta]

OK, simplified version of my case against Swan:
- arranged with scum N0 to go heavy after one of the members for town cred (Joseph)
- after losing Joseph, tried to get rid of IC Dylan before losing teammate, switched when saw it was a lost cause
- pushed for LaLight and Yuma lynches, when Ash and MiX were better targets, because keeping Ash and MiX around would make it easier to win on the last few days
- seeded this all with an early "got the wrong person" post
- I may have been wrong / misremember that you were team "only ash or mix" would try to pull thus off (the no NKs). At least I looked quickly and didn't see it.
- (a new one) tried to get UB to reveal on Day 4
- I still don't understand the reason for wanting to get Yuma to L-1. There's no way as scum they'd claim UB there.

So these last two points, seems like UB hunting to me. Which seems quite scummy.

Look, I get that I could be very wrong on this. But I wanted to get this all out there to see what others thought about any of this. It is only my 2nd game with you guys, so maybe I'm just looking "too hard".

And I understand that it very well doesn't make sense to lynch Swan today over ash/mix (my pref here again is ash). But I definitely wanted to make sure we weren't on autopilot for lynching one today, the other tomorrow.

[scolapasta]

Oh, but #1 preference is still no lynch.

[scolapasta]

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

We have eight alive.  The chance we'll need to iso out anyone is slim.  True random lynches still result in a win for town a lot, no?  Let's assume the NK is stopped every other night:

7 v 1, ML+NK
5 v 1, ML
4 v 1, ML+NK
2 v 1

That's three free mislynches before LYLO.  The chance we swing and miss four times in a row is small.  With no NKs, we get even more.  Even with NKs every night, we just NL that third ML to get to the same LYLO.

(This scenario-running is also clear evidence why not shooting is just a terrible idea by scum.)

So I'm not worried about anything.  I think only those I mentioned should claim.  Heck, they don't even need to if they don't want to and we STILL win based on our efforts.

(And by that I mean, we lynch MiX and win.)

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

We have eight alive.  The chance we'll need to iso out anyone is slim.  True random lynches still result in a win for town a lot, no?  Let's assume the NK is stopped every other night:

7 v 1, ML+NK
5 v 1, ML
4 v 1, ML+NK
2 v 1

That's three free mislynches before LYLO.  The chance we swing and miss four times in a row is small.  With no NKs, we get even more.  Even with NKs every night, we just NL that third ML to get to the same LYLO.

(This scenario-running is also clear evidence why not shooting is just a terrible idea by scum.)

So I'm not worried about anything.  I think only those I mentioned should claim.  Heck, they don't even need to if they don't want to and we STILL win based on our efforts.

(And by that I mean, we lynch MiX and win.)

ash, since I'm still learning how y'all play, why does the 5v1 scenario above not have a NK? Feels like that one lose us a ML there. (note this post was after the first no NK night, but before the 2nd)

[scolapasta]

Whoops, double quoted, accidently.

[scolapasta]

- I may have been wrong / misremember that you were team "only ash or mix" would try to pull thus off (the no NKs). At least I looked quickly and didn't see it.

Found the post I was thinking of (#767). It was MiX, not Swan. My mistake.

[Swowl]

k.
Clarity I am not doing this because they are trying horribly to make a case on me... it is because they didn't claim.

Vote: scolapasta

[Swowl]

also scola - could you please clarify for me, assume I am just being dumb here (no sarcasm), what my ultimate end game goal would be for trying to get other people lynched prior to jumping on either ash or mix in the world where I am skum?

[Swowl]

also why will you not claim? like if you are refusing to do so, at least give a reason.

[ashersky]

other then they could shoot the UB?
Downside of not being able to iso out the UB in terms of read backs. Which at this point, could be fairly important. Though to your point, discretion claim could come into play there.

We have eight alive.  The chance we'll need to iso out anyone is slim.  True random lynches still result in a win for town a lot, no?  Let's assume the NK is stopped every other night:

7 v 1, ML+NK
5 v 1, ML
4 v 1, ML+NK
2 v 1

That's three free mislynches before LYLO.  The chance we swing and miss four times in a row is small.  With no NKs, we get even more.  Even with NKs every night, we just NL that third ML to get to the same LYLO.

(This scenario-running is also clear evidence why not shooting is just a terrible idea by scum.)

So I'm not worried about anything.  I think only those I mentioned should claim.  Heck, they don't even need to if they don't want to and we STILL win based on our efforts.

(And by that I mean, we lynch MiX and win.)

ash, since I'm still learning how y'all play, why does the 5v1 scenario above not have a NK? Feels like that one lose us a ML there. (note this post was after the first no NK night, but before the 2nd)

It was just an scenario -- I wrote "let's assume the NK is stopped every other night" in the sentence beforehand.  As in, a doctor is successful every other night.  It was just a hypothetical.

At this point, we are at 6 alive, so it is:

5v1, ML+NK
3v1, NL+NK
2v1, LYLO

Or

5v1, ML
4v1, ML
3v1, NL+NK
2v1, LYLO

Or

5v1, ML
4v1, ML+NK
2v1, LYLO

I'm assuming that 3-person LYLO is the end goal for scum here, so I'm guessing the NK would actually happen at 4 alive.  If that's correct, scenarios 2 and 3 are the same, but forces an NL by town.  I could be wrong about the NK coming at 4 alive, I guess, if scum feels they have a better chance with four alive than three.  But you get the point.

Honestly, breaking it down like that, MiX would be silly not to NK tonight if he gets another mislynch through today.

[ashersky]

One point to add to the many:

--while it can be said that I have been tunneling MiX non-stop and MiX has been tunneling me to the same extent, MiX is the only one who has been participating in convenient mislynches the past few days

[MiX]

ASH OR SCOLA FUCKING CLAIM I AM LOSING MY SANITY PLEASE CLAIM.

No one vote anyone other than me or ash for the love of all that is holy please listen to me I am commandeering this thread I am tired of misplays and arguments about nothing.

Scola, here's one argument that breaks your theory: scum!Swan can just NK every day and win because they need 1 less mislynch, and given yuma and LL mislynches he would've already won (one of me/ash is a free mislynch). Also I can't be bothered with reading all of it since we lynch one of me/ash NOW instead of leaving us to LyLo.

I am very very tired. Please just try to win instead of trying to be correct.

[MiX]

This is like my first SK game all over again where raerae just wouldn't vote with me for reasons unknown. Except here I actually give a damn.

Please, PLEASE stop destroying my will to play mafia by having this game continue without a claim. At this point I don't wanna play town anymore because no one else seems to care about logic, setup shenanigans or trying to win.

I am exhausted.

[MiX]

For the sake of not burning out every other player in this game with me, I'll try to be productive. Also due to respect of the non-claim UB, scola.

By the way, no one will want to No Lynch today. So, you can accept that fact and claim now, I'd love that.

OK, simplified version of my case against Swan:
- arranged with scum N0 to go heavy after one of the members for town cred (Joseph)
- after losing Joseph, tried to get rid of IC Dylan before losing teammate, switched when saw it was a lost cause
- pushed for LaLight and Yuma lynches, when Ash and MiX were better targets, because keeping Ash and MiX around would make it easier to win on the last few days
- seeded this all with an early "got the wrong person" post
- I may have been wrong / misremember that you were team "only ash or mix" would try to pull thus off (the no NKs). At least I looked quickly and didn't see it.
- (a new one) tried to get UB to reveal on Day 4
- I still don't understand the reason for wanting to get Yuma to L-1. There's no way as scum they'd claim UB there.

So these last two points, seems like UB hunting to me. Which seems quite scummy.

Look, I get that I could be very wrong on this. But I wanted to get this all out there to see what others thought about any of this. It is only my 2nd game with you guys, so maybe I'm just looking "too hard".

And I understand that it very well doesn't make sense to lynch Swan today over ash/mix (my pref here again is ash). But I definitely wanted to make sure we weren't on autopilot for lynching one today, the other tomorrow.

Thanks for the tl;dr, although I did end up reading it.

- So you're saying that the bus was planned...from N0? What? Then why would Raptor not hammer? Scum didn't expect Joseph to be lynched D1, and they definitely didn't want him to. Unless this is a double bus?

- Yeah, "tried", so did ash, so did yuma, so did...town. The fact that he swapped at the perfect time just means he knows when raptor slips, which is perfectly NAI as Swan knows raptor very well.

- If Swan was interested in winning, they would've NKd more.

- So would town. Besides, yuma was reeking of town in his posts that weren't about reading anyone.

- That's my team. The only person alive that doesn't try to win this game as fast as possible is ash. Or me, I guess. But just ash.

- Do you mean D5? It was really good for the UB to claim...whenever, actually, because Dylan was IC. It didn't help scum nearly enough as it did town.

- I still don't understand why you hammered yuma. The point of putting him at L-1 is to force him to claim UB, which as you can see is something we as town cannot do for some reason.

- UB hunting is town because scum will inevitably NK the UB so who cares when. Town just wants an extra IC so they can stop eating each other.

- Your points are fine overall but even if you cop him as scum you should still lynch me or ash. There's just no way town wins with both of us alive, completely impossible.

- You could do that in LyLo, all you have done here is aggro Swan. You should be sorting my/ash's alignment today, as it will be the last day we're both alive.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

[MiX]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

[WestCoastDidds]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

What is your preference? I'm in a state of torpor, so anything, really.

[MiX]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

What is your preference? I'm in a state of torpor, so anything, really.

Just unvote or w/e, I prefer ash but who cares.

Just don't listen to Swan. He's pushed 2 mislynches and will again. He's crazy when going unchecked, look at D3.

I just want you to trust ny judgement of Swan.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh, good gravy. unvote

But MiXy, what's the point? We need 4 people to get a lynch and nothing is happening to move the needle on anyone, even a little except that scola is not claiming.

I am feeling hopeless and bored....and that apathy isn't going to abate until we do something.

So, something...lets do something

[MiX]

We don't need to lynch. We just need the UB claim.

Then the chaos will settle and we'll lynch scum!ash.

[WestCoastDidds]

We don't need to lynch. We just need the UB claim.

Then the chaos will settle and we'll lynch scum!ash.

But haven't they decided that they are not gonna do that? Everyone has posted.

[MiX]

We don't need to lynch. We just need the UB claim.

Then the chaos will settle and we'll lynch scum!ash.

But haven't they decided that they are not gonna do that? Everyone has posted.

Lynching town's not going to make the UB claim. If we have to, we no lynch.

But really what we can do is not vote, but talk. Talk people into saying if they're UB or not. Votes are just anti-town since we don't have all the information.

Expect me and ash have a scum result on each other. But that's for later.

[WestCoastDidds]

Expect me and ash have a scum result on each other. But that's for later.

Result?

[MiX]

Expect me and ash have a scum result on each other. But that's for later.

Result?

Scumread that we won't back out of. Same thing.

[scolapasta]

OK, so fine, I'll claim. I'm UB.

I was still hopeful to try for no lynch, NK, to get us to 5. But clearly that's not going anywhere.

And I also get the Swan lynch is likely not happening. So here's what will. We lynch Ash or MiX. I die tonight.

Then Dylan and WC will need to decide between Swan and the whoever is left. I'm guessing it won't be Swan.

And I'll admit myself, I'm not convinced it's him. Just that there is a case to be made and this will have been a far more interesting game if in fact it where him.

[MiX]

The game's not interesting given scum deliberately chose to require 1 more mislynch.

Thank you scola. Now let's lynch ash and end this charade.

[WestCoastDidds]

OK, so fine, I'll claim. I'm UB.

I was still hopeful to try for no lynch, NK, to get us to 5. But clearly that's not going anywhere.

And I also get the Swan lynch is likely not happening. So here's what will. We lynch Ash or MiX. I die tonight.

Then Dylan and WC will need to decide between Swan and the whoever is left. I'm guessing it won't be Swan.

And I'll admit myself, I'm not convinced it's him. Just that there is a case to be made and this will have been a far more interesting game if in fact it where him.

Alright, scola...so lets try to win now. Who is scum?

[scolapasta]

I lean that it's one of Swan or Ash.

You?

[WestCoastDidds]

I lean that it's one of Swan or Ash.

You?

I don't think it is at all in line with Swan's demeanor to wait it out like this. He'd have Nk'ed.  Ash is far more wily, and has vastly more experience with next level mind fucks.

[WestCoastDidds]

MiXy is next level, too, but  neither Swan nor I has the patience for that. I don't know Dylan well enough to say.

[scolapasta]

I get that. This might just be my inexperience with the group (and probably just in general). It might also be my recent quarantine playing of games like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detectives and looking for more of a Moriarty type playing games with us.

Also, my only game with y'all with Hunger Games, and look how that turned out with LaLight.

[MiX]

I get that. This might just be my inexperience with the group (and probably just in general). It might also be my recent quarantine playing of games like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detectives and looking for more of a Moriarty type playing games with us.

Also, my only game with y'all with Hunger Games, and look how that turned out with LaLight.

Why do you think they were lynched this game?

[WestCoastDidds]

I get that. This might just be my inexperience with the group (and probably just in general). It might also be my recent quarantine playing of games like Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detectives and looking for more of a Moriarty type playing games with us.

Also, my only game with y'all with Hunger Games, and look how that turned out with LaLight.

Yeah, LaLight is a stinker and he has done that to me twice in LyLo.  I obviously have a soft spot for emotional responses.

[Swowl]

I think we are all rather done at this point... I am following Swan because I don't have much enthusiasm for anything else at the moment

vote: scola

Please do not follow Swan.

That's a request. From a friend.

Please.

What is your preference? I'm in a state of torpor, so anything, really.

Just unvote or w/e, I prefer ash but who cares.

Just don't listen to Swan. He's pushed 2 mislynches and will again. He's crazy when going unchecked, look at D3.

I just want you to trust ny judgement of Swan.

everyone is forgetting the two lynches that I successfully got behind as well here.

Also, obviously the intent was to put pressure for the claim.

Unvote

[MiX]

I was scared someone else would hammer by putting scola at L-1.

Hi Swan. Ready to lynch in the ash/MiX set yet?

[Swowl]

fair enough. yep from my pov we win or WCD is playing the most amazing skum game of the year lol.

done thinking about the game.

I am going to wait for Ash really really quick to check in before voting tho.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ha! Yeah, I do not have that in me. Definitely not now, maybe not ever.

[Swowl]

Ha! Yeah, I do not have that in me. Definitely not now, maybe not ever.

the part of me that loves you hopes your trolling the shit out of me rn lol

[A Drowned Kernel]

Vote Count 6.2

ashersky (1): MiX
MiX (1): ashersky

Not Voting (4): Dylan32, scolapasta, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Day Six ends at 12 am forum time May 11th.

[WestCoastDidds]

Both you and MiX, respecting a level of gameplay that I’ve not yet achieved. It’s much appreciated, but entirely unfounded. #goals

And when I do fool you so profoundly, I’m making this my signature:

The part of me that loves you hopes you’re trolling the shit out of me rn lol

[MiX]

Both you and MiX, respecting a level of gameplay that I’ve not yet achieved. It’s much appreciated, but entirely unfounded. #goals

And when I do fool you so profoundly, I’m making this my signature:

The part of me that loves you hopes you’re trolling the shit out of me rn lol

Claiming scum O.o

The moment that quote becomes real, you're no longer the Didds I used to know.

[WestCoastDidds]

Both you and MiX, respecting a level of gameplay that I’ve not yet achieved. It’s much appreciated, but entirely unfounded. #goals

And when I do fool you so profoundly, I’m making this my signature:

The part of me that loves you hopes you’re trolling the shit out of me rn lol

Claiming scum O.o

The moment that quote becomes real, you're no longer the Didds I used to know.

Right? I just don’t think it’s in me. I’m much likely to be the sacrificial lamb and take one for the team. I just can’t see me being the genius mastermind playing it low key.

But the good news is that I am 100% authentically the Didds you know and have slowly, slowly come to appreciate. Who else would so predictably get you to throw up your hands and yell about quitting it with the oversharing?!

[MiX]

Both you and MiX, respecting a level of gameplay that I’ve not yet achieved. It’s much appreciated, but entirely unfounded. #goals

And when I do fool you so profoundly, I’m making this my signature:

The part of me that loves you hopes you’re trolling the shit out of me rn lol

Claiming scum O.o

The moment that quote becomes real, you're no longer the Didds I used to know.

Right? I just don’t think it’s in me. I’m much likely to be the sacrificial lamb and take one for the team. I just can’t see me being the genius mastermind playing it low key.

But the good news is that I am 100% authentically the Didds you know and have slowly, slowly come to appreciate. Who else would so predictably get you to throw up your hands and yell about quitting it with the oversharing?!

Double slowly hurts. Hurts because it's true.

I kinda want this game to end but I guess it's been alright. Definitely feeling better about it since scola claimed and Order is restored.

Put up on the "waiting for ash" queue.

[Swowl]

I mean... So I was waiting for Ash because of the way they worded their claim about UB.... but in reality there is no way in hell scola ever claims UB instead of VT if they are skum... so scola is town.

when does ash normally check in?

[MiX]

I mean... So I was waiting for Ash because of the way they worded their claim about UB.... but in reality there is no way in hell scola ever claims UB instead of VT if they are skum... so scola is town.

when does ash normally check in?

Yes, I caught onto that Swan. You can start by saying what your ideas are so I can say that, uh, if ash counterclaims the game is over, so your should proceed as if he's not going to.

No idea!

[ashersky]

No counterclaim from me, as I already claimed.  It was fairly clear scola was UB, wasn't it?

You all seemed fairly exasperated there for a bit.

None of that made any impact on the game.  Lynch MiX.  If you need me to make a possible scummy list of the others, I'll do it if I was somehow to be wrong.  I mean, I have my gut feels, I guess, but I'd need to reread the entire game again.

I think the handful of "ash over mix" random reads helps solidify my case against MiX, which has been laid out multiple times with multiple layers of evidence and exposition.  MiX's case on me has been a blend of WIFOM, stress, and "he's ash and good at scum" which is not a case but a prejudice.

I truly, honestly believe I am right here.  I also don't know that there's much more for me to do.  Yes, I've probably underplayed the dangers of incorrectness here, because I really want to get this right and win.  If we lynch MiX and I'm wrong, lynching me results in a loss, so I would have to go back on that promise (although you could lynch me without me anyway).  I very much don't want to lose what might be my last mafia game ever.

If people want to label me a good player, don't punish me for it.  Being good at scum doesn't make me scum.  I haven't played in years, so I haven't even had a scum alignment in years.  But I have been a town alignment in all my games since returning, including the only game to have ended.

Help me win this game.

[MiX]

No counterclaim from me, as I already claimed.  It was fairly clear scola was UB, wasn't it?

You all seemed fairly exasperated there for a bit.

None of that made any impact on the game.  Lynch MiX.  If you need me to make a possible scummy list of the others, I'll do it if I was somehow to be wrong.  I mean, I have my gut feels, I guess, but I'd need to reread the entire game again.

I think the handful of "ash over mix" random reads helps solidify my case against MiX, which has been laid out multiple times with multiple layers of evidence and exposition.  MiX's case on me has been a blend of WIFOM, stress, and "he's ash and good at scum" which is not a case but a prejudice.

I truly, honestly believe I am right here.  I also don't know that there's much more for me to do.  Yes, I've probably underplayed the dangers of incorrectness here, because I really want to get this right and win.  If we lynch MiX and I'm wrong, lynching me results in a loss, so I would have to go back on that promise (although you could lynch me without me anyway).  I very much don't want to lose what might be my last mafia game ever.

If people want to label me a good player, don't punish me for it.  Being good at scum doesn't make me scum.  I haven't played in years, so I haven't even had a scum alignment in years.  But I have been a town alignment in all my games since returning, including the only game to have ended.

Help me win this game.

It was to the trained eye, yes.

(this sentence intentionally left blank so I can answer each of yours separately)

You're right. If you're town, town should definitely lynch me.

There's no evidence, simply using my words against me. You know me better than to say those things you said must come from scum actually do. The setup lies or whatever regarding D3 is NAI. There was no need for scum!me to do so nor was I forced to do it, so how is it alignment indicative? The rest seem to just come from confirmation bias on top of this. Whereas I have a pretty solid case for you: no one else would forego 3 NKs. I don't even need that, I can also go for how cayvie didn't help scum D1, how they flipped into scumreading town shortly before leaving after having both other scum in their PoE, how you showed up D2 with saying you were scumread and you townread faust, following by his NK which is a clear ash move from the reads faust had, and how you never tried to lynch scum D3, which unlike yuma, may he rest in peace, you certainly have better reads than that. Your insistence that there was a Doctor for so long is also reaching for straws and overall misdirection and lies, and let's not forget the part where you tunneled me from D3, a day where town was focused on winning the 1v1, yet you wanted none of it. This is a real case, and it's much, much more than you have on me. The "ash over mix" comments are coming from town, how can they have any impact on either of our alignments?

I agree with this paragraph completely. Except the last sentence. Luckily for me, I don't have to consider a world where you quit mafia because of this game. That would be the worst outcome of the game of yuma's revival.

You're not playing a good scum game this...game...given you're skipping NKs. I think you underestimated how many mislynches were possible before you were next. Although I don't think you were going to win this game, so if you have a secondary objective, maybe it's been working. I presume it's to lynch me first, but obviously it doesn't have to do with me.

Help us win this game.

[MiX]

Oh boy, I just realized something.

This is essentially the kingmaker scenario of my second game all over again. Town wins instead of losing this time, but both of us want to "win", which is to say lynch the other first.

I've changed since then. Hopefully the result's different.

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh boy, I just realized something.

This is essentially the kingmaker scenario of my second game all over again. Town wins instead of losing this time, but both of us want to "win", which is to say lynch the other first.

I've changed since then. Hopefully the result's different.

The deep space nine game? That is the game I think of when I think about Ash’s scum skill. He was scum in the doomsday game later last year, too, and also won (I was watching/co-modding that game).

All good reasons that Ash should keep playing!

[Swowl]

Vote: Ash

very much hope that Ash continues to play as well.

[ashersky]

Vote: Ash

very much hope that Ash continues to play as well.

Why me?  I really fail to understand the votes other than from scum!MiX.  How am I the one that is likely to be scum here?

If I fail in this game, I definitely will see it as a sign that I definitely should not have returned.  It basically shows no personal growth as a human -- I'm still the auto-voted assumed scummy person I was when I played in the past.

I thought Hunger Games went pretty well, too.  Blip in the road I guess.

[ashersky]

I mean, I guess someone could be like "I really scumread Cayvie on D1, so sorry."

But then, you would be ignoring five full days of town!ash to lynch one day of scummy!cayvie, which seems like bad reasoning.  Plenty of players have one scummy day and are given the benefit of the doubt.

I think that's what I seem to have lost.  No one gives me the benefit of the doubt, ever.  Even in Hunger Games, very few players trusted me on faust.  Here, it's MiX who is preferred over me.

I like to think of myself as a Winger, but I guess the honest truth is I'm the Pierce Hawthorne of the group.  Or the Chang.

[ashersky]

MiX is literally the only person who's vote I understand and accept, because his is linked directly to his alignment.  Just as his willful participation in the other mislynches while supposedly only focusing on me.

It's the votes from others, who are actively choosing MiX over me, that I am not comprehending.  I mean, some of you know MiX better, so would prefer him through familiarity, or convenience, or whatever, but those are not game-related reasons to make this decision.

If you limit your scope to this game, and made a reasoned decision, I don't think the majority of you would choose MiX over me as town.

[Swowl]

I mean, I guess someone could be like "I really scumread Cayvie on D1, so sorry."

But then, you would be ignoring five full days of town!ash to lynch one day of scummy!cayvie, which seems like bad reasoning.  Plenty of players have one scummy day and are given the benefit of the doubt.

I think that's what I seem to have lost.  No one gives me the benefit of the doubt, ever.  Even in Hunger Games, very few players trusted me on faust.  Here, it's MiX who is preferred over me.

I like to think of myself as a Winger, but I guess the honest truth is I'm the Pierce Hawthorne of the group.  Or the Chang.

faust was town in hunger games.

[ashersky]

vote: ash

Screw it, good game MiX.

Remaining town, don't lynch MiX tomorrow.  Just let him win the game.  Getting a post-mortem town win here is more insulting to me than none of you believing me now.

I'm definitely done playing mafia games.

Sorry yuma.

[ashersky]

I mean, I guess someone could be like "I really scumread Cayvie on D1, so sorry."

But then, you would be ignoring five full days of town!ash to lynch one day of scummy!cayvie, which seems like bad reasoning.  Plenty of players have one scummy day and are given the benefit of the doubt.

I think that's what I seem to have lost.  No one gives me the benefit of the doubt, ever.  Even in Hunger Games, very few players trusted me on faust.  Here, it's MiX who is preferred over me.

I like to think of myself as a Winger, but I guess the honest truth is I'm the Pierce Hawthorne of the group.  Or the Chang.

faust was town in hunger games.

My point is I was town in Hunger Games, and no one believed me/trusted me/gave me the benefit of the doubt.

[ashersky]

I feel like I should say something, or that I want to say something more, but I just don't know.  I'm just incredibly frustrated and hurt, and I don't even know why.  Like, I don't really know any of you, and the only remaining player aren't even the ones I've known for years I guess, so what should I care so much?  I guess I shouldn't, but I have always been competitive and always want to win.

Without specifically talking about other games, quitting playing will not affect my modding duties.

I meant everything I said, no lies.  I'm sorry I can't earn your trust, I'm sorry we can't win, and I don't want to win without it.  I prefer MiX just win to complete my utter embarrassment as a loser.

[Dylan32]

Oh screw it. Vote: MiX

[MiX]

You can say what you want ash, but you are wrong. I'm sorry, but you are. If you can't accept that you can be wrong, then how are we supposed to accept that you can be town?

Oh screw it. Vote: MiX

You do know that AtE is ash's specialty, right?

[MiX]

MiX is literally the only person who's vote I understand and accept, because his is linked directly to his alignment.  Just as his willful participation in the other mislynches while supposedly only focusing on me.

It's the votes from others, who are actively choosing MiX over me, that I am not comprehending.  I mean, some of you know MiX better, so would prefer him through familiarity, or convenience, or whatever, but those are not game-related reasons to make this decision.

If you limit your scope to this game, and made a reasoned decision, I don't think the majority of you would choose MiX over me as town.

When did I support the yuma lynch at all?

I feel like I should say something, or that I want to say something more, but I just don't know.  I'm just incredibly frustrated and hurt, and I don't even know why.  Like, I don't really know any of you, and the only remaining player aren't even the ones I've known for years I guess, so what should I care so much?  I guess I shouldn't, but I have always been competitive and always want to win.

Without specifically talking about other games, quitting playing will not affect my modding duties.

I meant everything I said, no lies.  I'm sorry I can't earn your trust, I'm sorry we can't win, and I don't want to win without it.  I prefer MiX just win to complete my utter embarrassment as a loser.

You love me, that's why. Either that or you love everyone else but me, one of the two. If you're town I won't win, I don't think. And if I'm lynched, we're definitely not winning since then you self-vote. You locked yourself into losing by assuming I'm scum and, well...that's the game. You have a bad read. so since you tunneled, you need to be lynched so town has a chance.

On the upside, you're probably scum! Which I kinda hope you are, but at the same time I'd love to see your reaction to me being VT.

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Ash

I think that is the hammer

[MiX]

Vote: ash

Should be, yeah

[WestCoastDidds]

I feel like I should say something, or that I want to say something more, but I just don't know.  I'm just incredibly frustrated and hurt, and I don't even know why.  Like, I don't really know any of you, and the only remaining player aren't even the ones I've known for years I guess, so what should I care so much?  I guess I shouldn't, but I have always been competitive and always want to win.

Without specifically talking about other games, quitting playing will not affect my modding duties.

I meant everything I said, no lies.  I'm sorry I can't earn your trust, I'm sorry we can't win, and I don't want to win without it.  I prefer MiX just win to complete my utter embarrassment as a loser.

Ash, I don’t know you at all but I hate that you are struggling. Even if this is a ploy, at least some of your anguish feels authentic. I feel like the context of this game can heighten particular insecurities in particular ways. I know that I get my feelings hurt far more often than I should, and sadly, I help us lose more times than I help us win. I haven’t been coming around nearly as long as you have, and I don’t know about your journey, but I know that you are revered and that people refer to your game play with uber-high levels of respect. So much respect that your reputation makes it hard to trust you. I can only image how hard it is to read that mistrust as respect, but really, it is. You are a player than people know and respect, and that is a badge that was hard earned over years of awesomeness.

I also know nothing about your situation, but if Japan is as locked down as the states are, life is weird and more detached than it used to be, so that might be doing a number on you. So, if you find yourself wanting more human interaction (Tobi notwithstanding!), we’ll be here and we look forward to playing with you.

Years ago I left an activity that I love because it wasn’t early very good for me. That decision was hard, but what was harder is that no one even seemed (to me anyway) to notice that I had gone. That won’t be the case here. You will be missed.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ashersky was lynched! He was a Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof!

Game over! Town wins!

Final Vote Count

ashersky (4): MiX, DatSwan, ashersky, WestCoastDidds
MiX (1): Dylan32

Not Voting (1): scolapasta

[A Drowned Kernel]

And that's game! Thanks for playing everyone, and thank you for subbing in and sticking it out, ash.

[WestCoastDidds]

Phew!!!

I am feeling way ore relief than celebration, but the celebration will come!

[faust]

Finally.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thank you, ADK! You are doing a great job at modding! We appreciate you.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Speccy
Mafia

[faust]

I feel for ash though. What a terrible situation to sub into.

[WestCoastDidds]

But the good news is that I am 100% authentically the Didds you know and have slowly, slowly come to appreciate. Who else would so predictably get you to throw up your hands and yell about quitting it with the oversharing?!

Double slowly hurts. Hurts because it's true.

But maybe slowly is more lasting, in which case we win!

[WestCoastDidds]

I just read the speech...LaLight has to eat a hat!

[WestCoastDidds]

I feel for ash though. What a terrible situation to sub into.

100% yes. If ash wasn’t Ash, this would have been over a week ago

[MiX]

I feel for ash though. What a terrible situation to sub into.

I agree.

[MiX]

I like how the only words I have for that flip are "I agree".

Well played, but if we ignore the ash ways of being scum...this was basically a perfect game! Good job town!

[A Drowned Kernel]

I like how the only words I have for that flip are "I agree".

Well played, but if we ignore the ash ways of being scum...this was basically a perfect game! Good job town!

I don't know if I would call any game where town no-lynched D1 perfect

[MiX]

I like how the only words I have for that flip are "I agree".

Well played, but if we ignore the ash ways of being scum...this was basically a perfect game! Good job town!

I don't know if I would call any game where town no-lynched D1 perfect

It quite literally let us catch another scum. I think that's acceptable if you want a perfect game.

[WestCoastDidds]

I like how the only words I have for that flip are "I agree".

Well played, but if we ignore the ash ways of being scum...this was basically a perfect game! Good job town!

I don't know if I would call any game where town no-lynched D1 perfect

Hard agree. It wasn’t strategic on our part.

[LaLight]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

[MiX]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

Fear. So much fear.

Eat the hat LL! I think there were 3 promises of hat-eating this game, and one of them came true.

[WestCoastDidds]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

Fear. So much fear.

Eat the hat LL! I think there were 3 promises of hat-eating this game, and one of them came true.

It can be a pancake beret!

[scolapasta]

Woot. My first win.

Sorry for steering incorrectly us to Swan. I'll admit I wasn't actually very convinced about that, but I like I said, I was just looking too hard for a Moriarty (and wanted to at least throw it out there in case there was something there).

I think we still would've won, because we still preferred Ash to MiX as a group, and that AtE at the end sealed it for me. (it was clearly a hail mary effort, but that kind of thing seemed like it was made to have an effect on those of us who are newer, less experienced).

Good job Didds, not succumbing and being there with the hamme, and good job town!

[mail-mi]

This game was interesting to follow.

Ash, I think you played as well as you could as scum. I enjoy playing with you and hope you stick around. 

[WestCoastDidds]

Woot. My first win.

Sorry for steering incorrectly us to Swan. I'll admit I wasn't actually very convinced about that, but I like I said, I was just looking too hard for a Moriarty (and wanted to at least throw it out there in case there was something there).

I think we still would've won, because we still preferred Ash to MiX as a group, and that AtE at the end sealed it for me. (it was clearly a hail mary effort, but that kind of thing seemed like it was made to have an effect on those of us who are newer, less experienced).

Good job Didds, not succumbing and being there with the hamme, and good job town!

Thanks! If I had lost another game for town, I’m not sure I’d have recovered. :/

Looking back at how thoroughly I trusted ash in Hunger Games and in Deep Space Nine helped me see that I have a blind spot for him born out of mad respect.

[Joseph2302]

I feel for ash though. What a terrible situation to sub into.

Yes his scum buddies were bloody usless

[sudgy]

Ash, I think the reason that no one listens to you anymore is not that you are bad at the game, but that you are too good at the game.  You are so convincing and can argue your way out of anything, and so people have adapted and just never listen to you anymore.

[Dylan32]

Dang it! I could have hammered scum, but since town was likely going to hammer Ash I hedged and went MiX instead. Oh well, gg everybody!

[cayvie]

oh my god Ash that was hilarious and amazing, watching you come in and play my role so differently from the way i would have, but effectively nonetheless.

[cayvie]

oh my god Ash that was hilarious and amazing, watching you come in and play my role so differently from the way i would have, but effectively nonetheless.

it felt a little like being possessed by a demon XD

[cayvie]

also i wanted to pop into the scumchat n1 so bad and be like "don't kill shraeye!!" but you know

[cayvie]

anyway thank you for running this, ADK, and sorry to my buddies for abandoning you

and thank you Ash for replacing me!

[yuma]

Worst reads ever.

But also more fun than I used to have. Thanks guys and gals.

[WestCoastDidds]

Worst reads ever.

But also more fun than I used to have. Thanks guys and gals.

Hooray!!!! Fun town!!

[Swowl]

Ggz everyone
Thanks adk!

[scolapasta]

Worst reads ever.

But also more fun than I used to have. Thanks guys and gals.

Hooray!!!! Fun town!!

It definitely gave me a chance to start leaning some people's styles, which should be useful for future games.

[Swowl]

Woot. My first win.

Sorry for steering incorrectly us to Swan. I'll admit I wasn't actually very convinced about that, but I like I said, I was just looking too hard for a Moriarty (and wanted to at least throw it out there in case there was something there).

I think we still would've won, because we still preferred Ash to MiX as a group, and that AtE at the end sealed it for me. (it was clearly a hail mary effort, but that kind of thing seemed like it was made to have an effect on those of us who are newer, less experienced).

Good job Didds, not succumbing and being there with the hamme, and good job town!

all good. I didn't like minddddd persay - but same thing as you and not having a ton of games with us, I had not had a ton of games with you... so I am sitting there before you claimed UB like..."is this guy #$%ing skum?" lol

[Swowl]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

whenever I do not have a good option I just look at your signature and take it as a sign 

[Swowl]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

whenever I do not have a good option I just look at your signature and take it as a sign 

Also yeah the idea to push your's ... not the best. 
I actually (incorrectly, but actually) thought we had a chance with Yuma. Like a good chance at the time. Obviously... to yuma's point on bad reads... lol yeah bad read.

[WestCoastDidds]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

whenever I do not have a good option I just look at your signature and take it as a sign 

LaLet's LaLynch LaLight!

[WestCoastDidds]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

whenever I do not have a good option I just look at your signature and take it as a sign 

And in fairness, LaLi, you had just come off a masterful game as scum.

[scolapasta]

Woot. My first win.

Sorry for steering incorrectly us to Swan. I'll admit I wasn't actually very convinced about that, but I like I said, I was just looking too hard for a Moriarty (and wanted to at least throw it out there in case there was something there).

I think we still would've won, because we still preferred Ash to MiX as a group, and that AtE at the end sealed it for me. (it was clearly a hail mary effort, but that kind of thing seemed like it was made to have an effect on those of us who are newer, less experienced).

Good job Didds, not succumbing and being there with the hamme, and good job town!

all good. I didn't like minddddd persay - but same thing as you and not having a ton of games with us, I had not had a ton of games with you... so I am sitting there before you claimed UB like..."is this guy #$%ing skum?" lol

Yeah, being UB helped. Because I knew that it would appear as scummy, but if it did, I could just claim. Which is also why I waited to make the case until a day I felt it was still a good town move to claim as UB.

[WestCoastDidds]

Woot. My first win.

Sorry for steering incorrectly us to Swan. I'll admit I wasn't actually very convinced about that, but I like I said, I was just looking too hard for a Moriarty (and wanted to at least throw it out there in case there was something there).

I think we still would've won, because we still preferred Ash to MiX as a group, and that AtE at the end sealed it for me. (it was clearly a hail mary effort, but that kind of thing seemed like it was made to have an effect on those of us who are newer, less experienced).

Good job Didds, not succumbing and being there with the hamme, and good job town!

all good. I didn't like minddddd persay - but same thing as you and not having a ton of games with us, I had not had a ton of games with you... so I am sitting there before you claimed UB like..."is this guy #$%ing skum?" lol

Yeah, being UB helped. Because I knew that it would appear as scummy, but if it did, I could just claim. Which is also why I waited to make the case until a day I felt it was still a good town move to claim as UB.

I think we solve this by Scola playing with us more often!!

[LaLight]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

whenever I do not have a good option I just look at your signature and take it as a sign 

And in fairness, LaLi, you had just come off a masterful game as scum.

fair enough.

[Dylan32]

Worst reads ever.

But also more fun than I used to have. Thanks guys and gals.

Yuma, it was good to play with you, and I hope you stick around for another round. I feel pretty good that I was correctly reading you as town even though I couldn't get over your reads lol.

[Swowl]

so why did you lynch me at all?

anyway, good job!

whenever I do not have a good option I just look at your signature and take it as a sign 

And in fairness, LaLi, you had just come off a masterful game as scum.

fair enough.

if im being 100% honest... that kind of played into on my end :/ sorry you just like.. hunger gamed so good

[mail-mi]

Since this one's all done... Come join stormlight mafia! [/end shameless plug]

[skip wooznum]

/in

Dude.

Duuudeee. How ya been?

You know, with Modern Family ending this week, it may be time for Modern Community 2.

Now Constable Reggie, the question isn't whether there's time for Modern Community 2, It's whether there's space for it.