Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?  (Read 1616 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Pizzaelemblast

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
  • Shuffle iT Username: Pizzaelemblast
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« on: August 16, 2019, 07:08:15 pm »
0

Some games are just fast-ending non-games due to the 3-pile-rule. Particularly games with both ruins and curses. They would play out as much more interesting proper games if they didn't end by the 3-pile-rule.


So that's why it would be great if this rule could be adjusted in the advanced options, or even better in the autoplay options. There could be multiple options: extend to 4-pile or 5-pile instead of 3-pile, end only by provinces running out, or just give an exact number of turns and then the game ends at that point (I'll bet experts would have fun crafting challenge games with that option). I can think of some more cool options but I think I'll leave it at that now for brevity.


I surmise that the 3-pile-rule was originally made to accommodate the base game, which didn't have so many powerful cards, and on top of that to accommodate the game as experienced by new players. Because, for new players, they could reasonably both build dysfunctional decks, and no one's deck would have been strong enough to buy provinces often, except through the occasional lucky hand. And so in that case the game would have just dragged on and on, so it needed an alternate end condition in the 3-pile-rule. If new players experienced the game dragging on and on while failing to be able to buy provinces, it would've seemed like the game didn't "work", which could be a thing to cause bad reviews, so I surmise that the 3-pile-rule was important when Dominion was still a new game.


But today, Dominion is very established and popular, and the conditions of playing online are different from playing with cards in so many ways. We have tons of expansion sets with more powerful cards on average than the early sets, and this makes it much more rare that the board is so weak that tedium occurs before all 8 provinces get bought.


Do people agree with my assessment? Even if you don't agree perfectly with it, would you still prefer if there was a way to turn off the 3-pile-rule or select other options that cause the game to end?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 07:27:15 pm by Pizzaelemblast »
Logged

LibraryAdventurer

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1274
  • Shuffle iT Username: LibraryAdventurer
  • Respect: +961
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2019, 10:10:22 pm »
0

This feedback forum is for feedback about this dominion strategy forum, not about the online game. To give feedback on Dominion online, go here: http://forum.shuffleit.nl/index.php

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5499
  • Respect: +22174
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2019, 12:32:50 pm »
0

I surmise that the 3-pile-rule was originally made to accommodate the base game, which didn't have so many powerful cards, and on top of that to accommodate the game as experienced by new players.
The rule was originally there to make sure there's a way to end the game, when Provinces are harder to come by, e.g. in games with Curses and no trashing. It has worked out to be a significant part of play though.

There are banned and disliked card lists now; you can put cards that make for faster games on those if you want. That's about the extent of it; there probably will not be a feature to change the game end condition online. IRL of course you can play however you want.
Logged

crj

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1257
  • Respect: +1351
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2019, 03:16:33 pm »
0

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
Logged

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5499
  • Respect: +22174
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2019, 04:44:09 pm »
+2

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8130
  • Respect: +8899
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2019, 08:51:13 am »
0

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.

I’ve always wanted a “you win” effect on a card; Alien Egypt is my favorite card in Temporum.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Wizard_Amul

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 50
  • Respect: +42
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2019, 10:16:50 pm »
+1

I’ve always wanted a “you win” effect on a card; Alien Egypt is my favorite card in Temporum.

I don't know if either of these would be good or balanced, but these are a couple of ideas I just thought of that could work in Dominion. I think these would both be a bit too luck heavy, though.

1) There could be an event that costs 0 that reads "Reveal your hand. If your hand has exactly one of each of Victory type card from the Supply, then win the game." I have no idea what would be balanced for this, but I was trying to think of an elegant condition that isn't too easy/difficult (for one that doesn't vary from kingdom to kingdom, my first idea was just "if your hand has exactly one of each of estate, duchy, and province").

2) Think of treasure maps and travelers with a win condition of colliding 2 of the last traveler. It would be something like an on play effect of "Trash this and a Traveler 1 from your hand. If you trashed two traveler 1 cards, gain 2 of Traveler 2" and the last traveler would say "Trash this and a Traveler 4 from your hand. If you trashed two traveler 4 cards, then win the game." I know a lot of people (including me) don't like the traveler/urchin/treasure map type of hoping for good shuffle luck and lucky interactions, so I don't like this idea as much.
Logged

ednever

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 633
  • Respect: +695
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2019, 10:52:20 am »
0

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.

Fleet.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8130
  • Respect: +8899
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2019, 10:57:42 am »
+1

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.

Fleet.

Fleet is listed the quoted post...
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

pubby

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 343
  • Respect: +541
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 03:59:36 am »
+3

I’ve always wanted a “you win” effect on a card; Alien Egypt is my favorite card in Temporum.

I know a guy who found all 5 pieces of exodia in the black market deck.
Logged

mxdata

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 56
  • Respect: +39
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2019, 05:13:04 pm »
0

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.
On a related note: What is the reason that Provinces still end the game in Colony games, instead of Colonies simply taking their place for the end-game condition?
Logged

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2704
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3376
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2019, 05:52:28 pm »
+1

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.
On a related note: What is the reason that Provinces still end the game in Colony games, instead of Colonies simply taking their place for the end-game condition?

One big benefit is that there's a way out of a game when Colonies are unattainable and gains are too limited for any reasonable three pile to happen quickly.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8130
  • Respect: +8899
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2019, 11:50:38 pm »
0

Colonies and Fleet each tweak the game-end condition; on reflection I'm kinda surprised there aren't more things that change it.
I've tried some.
On a related note: What is the reason that Provinces still end the game in Colony games, instead of Colonies simply taking their place for the end-game condition?

One big benefit is that there's a way out of a game when Colonies are unattainable and gains are too limited for any reasonable three pile to happen quickly.

It also feels simpler.. I don’t know if that’s related to Donald's choice; but it’s just adding one new rule instead of both adding a rule and taking away another rule.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Donald X.

  • Dominion Designer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5499
  • Respect: +22174
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2019, 02:03:17 pm »
0

On a related note: What is the reason that Provinces still end the game in Colony games, instead of Colonies simply taking their place for the end-game condition?
The initial idea was for it to really be a decision, do you go for Provinces or Colonies (and Colony was 9 VP). Later it seemed like, it was okay if you tended to go for Colonies; it's a game with Colonies, let's have the experience. But the end-game rule didn't change, and it's nice that some games it's still a decision and you might go for Provinces instead.
Logged

Vengil

  • Herbalist
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
Re: Can we have variants to the "3 piles empty=game over" rule?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2019, 05:39:01 am »
0

I really like the rule of three empty piles. It's another strategy ! :)
With curses and ruins this strategy is easier and cool.

I have a funny idea for an Landmark :
Landmark : the game finish when two piles are empty (except curse and ruin).


What do you think ?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 06:58:41 am by Vengil »
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.086 seconds with 21 queries.