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[shraeye]

                                       Vote Count 3.2.3

arishipshape (2): Uncleeurope, Joseph2302
faust (2): Debatepro, shraeye
EFHW (2): raerae, faust
Joseph2302 (1): EFHW

Not Voting (2): silverspawn, arishipshape

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.
Day 3 ends February 21, 2019, 04:00:00 pm.

If all roles are as stated, I don't think I would make Ari's role a scum role.  I think a town enabler weakens EFHWs role more.  Of course we don't know what scum powers there are, but if EFHW is town, surely scum have ninja kills.

[shraeye]

I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town.  Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.

I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town

[Debatepro]

Vote count please

[faust]

Another thing, though: if I look at a setup of only two masons plus  Neapolitan, that feels... unelegant. Like, the only thing that differentiates Neapolitan from Cop now is that it returns "non-VT" on the masons... who are very hard to mislynch. Eh.

This is incomplete. If the Enabler is town, then there is more to differentiate Neapolitan from Cop. And the fact that the Neapolitan would get a scum result on their Enabler is kind of neat form a game design POV.

[faust]

Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.

Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?

I did not want to discuss potential PRs and what I think about them because it might show to scum that I am a VT, and that for no upside to town.

[faust]

I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town.  Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.

I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town

It is not so much the fact that there arre no investigative PRs, but rather... scum has little way to counteract what we have. Masons is nothing that scum could work against with any of their PRs. Neapolitan can only be messed with by a Roleblocker, which we do not seem to have (unless EFHW is scum). Motion Detector... well I suppose scum could have a Ninja.

Also yes "non-VT" does not make you sure of what you caught, but "VT" does. The major strength is creating ICs. Which is pretty good if there already is are two IC-like roles.

[faust]

I think a town enabler weakens EFHWs role more.

...how? Did you mean mail-mi?

[faust]

I agree with the assessment that the setup makes ari's role more likely to be town.

[Uncleeurope]

I personally think Ari’s behavior is much more indicative of his alignment than setup analysis.

Regardless, since everyone (<-hyperbole) seems to be more waffley about an Ari lynch (still my first choice) what’s the kill plan people?

Joseph? Silver? Debatepro? Faust? (please no) ESFW? (May as well just kill me)

We did a whole lot of information sharing but it hasn’t done a large amount to influence my current suspects. With the exception of making me realize people seem to trust Debatepro more than I do.

If the pick is anyone other than Ari/Joseph/Debatepro you are going to have to give me an argument worthy enough to sway me, although some alternatives will require less incentive.

[silverspawn]

Another thing, though: if I look at a setup of only two masons plus  Neapolitan, that feels... unelegant. Like, the only thing that differentiates Neapolitan from Cop now is that it returns "non-VT" on the masons... who are very hard to mislynch. Eh.

This is incomplete. If the Enabler is town, then there is more to differentiate Neapolitan from Cop. And the fact that the Neapolitan would get a scum result on their Enabler is kind of neat form a game design POV.

if the enabler is town, yes.

[faust]

I'm thinking about the argument that 2 investigative roles is too strong for town.  Note that both of them are potentially misleading in a closed setup, "non-VT" and " there was movement" wouldn't make me super convinced of what I had caught.

I'm not convinced that it is too strong for town

It is not so much the fact that there arre no investigative PRs, but rather... scum has little way to counteract what we have. Masons is nothing that scum could work against with any of their PRs. Neapolitan can only be messed with by a Roleblocker, which we do not seem to have (unless EFHW is scum). Motion Detector... well I suppose scum could have a Ninja.

Also yes "non-VT" does not make you sure of what you caught, but "VT" does. The major strength is creating ICs. Which is pretty good if there already is are two IC-like roles.

I am thinking about that argument. It is meh. If scum has a Ninja, then a Motion Detector would not do much of anything really. Possibly would even functionally be negative utility as scum would appear with favourable results. So... I guess it could work out balance-wise?

I am still very concerned about the way EFHW claimed out of the blue. But I do not think it is likely that we lynch there today, and if we do manage to hit some other scum, then maybe their flip might help us figuring out EFHW. (As in, a Ninja flip would obviously go a long way towards clearing her.)

Either way I don't think we should give her result on Eddie any weight. Either she is scum and it is whatever, or she is town and scum has a Ninja or something and the result is useless (since we have no evidence for other scum targeting roles).

Wild speculation: Scum has daychat. I think scum needs some sort of additional boost in this setup, and daychat makes sense.

[faust]

Anyway vote: silver

[faust]

Daychat would also explain why this game is such a pain to figure out.

[EFHW]

Anyway vote: silver

I thought you wanted to lynch ari?

[faust]

Anyway vote: silver

I thought you wanted to lynch ari?

I changed my mind.

[Debatepro]

Anyway vote: silver

I thought you wanted to lynch ari?

I changed my mind.

Why and does this change who you think the scum team is?

[Debatepro]

Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.

Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?

I did not want to discuss potential PRs and what I think about them because it might show to scum that I am a VT, and that for no upside to town.

Why you already said you are VT? Can you give a hypothetical that demonstrates how this would work?

[faust]

Probably not important right now, but killing the IC in a closed setup is bold. I expect that scum has Strongman powers.

Then why say he didn't want to talk about it today? If like to hear from him and you seem eager for me to let this go, care to explain?

I did not want to discuss potential PRs and what I think about them because it might show to scum that I am a VT, and that for no upside to town.

Why you already said you are VT? Can you give a hypothetical that demonstrates how this would work?

I am not sure I understand your question.

[faust]

Anyway vote: silver

I thought you wanted to lynch ari?

I changed my mind.

Why and does this change who you think the scum team is?

Because I think it is plausible that ari is town. And yes. Well to be honest I don't quite know what to think anymore.

[shraeye]

I think a town enabler weakens EFHWs role more.

...how? Did you mean mail-mi?

yeah, that's what I meant.

[Debatepro]

NM. I understand now. I thought the discussion was about revealing something else like the strongman pr, not about we shouldn't claim/ed.

[shraeye]

Hold on.  For all the speculating, why has a somewhat obvious solution been very overlooked?  I'm not if it's right to blame people for the overlooking, but if faust is willing to entertain daychat then I'm surprised he didn't consider this...

[Debatepro]

I believe these are the votes since the last vote count.

Vote Count 3.21 (count then alphabetical)
arishipshape (2): Uncleeurope, Joseph (#1710), faust
faust (2): Debatepro, Shraeye (#1789)
EFHW (1): raerae, faust (#1835)
Joseph2302 (1): EFHW
silverspawn (1): faust (#1862)

Not Voting (2): silverspawn, Joseph2302
With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends February 21, 2019, 04:00:00 pm

[Debatepro]

Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:

DebatePro/raerae/silver

EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)

Now faust can say he voted for EFHW, even if only temporarly. See: EFHW#1835, then silver #1862.

[faust]

Some interesting facts: there are two possible 3-person scumteams that involve no bussing at all:

DebatePro/raerae/silver

EFHW/faust/UncleEurope (interestingly, this is raerae's list...hmm)

Now faust can say he voted for EFHW, even if only temporarly. See: EFHW#1835, then silver #1862.

I voted for EFHW, even if only temporarly.