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Author Topic: Snowline fan-based expansion.  (Read 2187 times)

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ClouduHieh

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Snowline fan-based expansion.
« on: October 17, 2018, 12:15:46 am »
+1

My snowline expansion:

Sled dogs

Avalanche

Firn village

Snow shoes

Hot springs

Hibernating bear

Log cabin

Fur coat

Blizzard

A Crisp Day

Wolves

Carcass

Frigid village

Lodge

Snowy owl

Lumberjack

Cold storage

Fishing hole

Copper mine

Glacier

Igloo









« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 12:28:19 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 12:29:05 am »
0



Hereís a reaction called hot springs

A mystic/tunnel variation
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:15:30 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2018, 12:37:28 am »
0



This is hibernating bear. They say you should never wake a bear. Well as long as you stick to duration cards and reserve cards you have nothing to worry about.

This is a stronger version of enchantress but with some restrictions.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 03:18:15 am by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 03:19:16 am »
+1

Finally figured out how to post the pictures.
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Holunder9

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 04:36:09 am »
0

Hibernating Beat is too nasty compared to Enchantress.
Hot Springs looks fine but it is is too similar to Mystic and Tunnel for my taste.

Sled Dogs is a cool idea. I don't think it needs the restrictions though. Ratcatcher or Duplicate landing directly on your Tavern mat is strong but I think that the card can get away with it.
What seems like a mistake is that the card always puts stuff on the mat, that leads to massive piling and too much stuff on your mat. Also, gaining to hand looks to good.

I'd change it like this:

Sled Dogs
$4
Action

+1 Card
+1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up).
If it is face down, put an Action card from the Supply that costs up to 4 onto your Tavern mat.
If it is face up, discard a card from your Tavern mat.

I don't think that you need restrictions on only discarding Actions from the Tavern mat as you don't want Miser's Coppers back in your deck.
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crlundy

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 12:59:17 pm »
0

I agree with Holunder9 about Hibernating Bear and Hot Springs. For Hibernating Bear, consider there may not be other Durations or Reserves in the Supply.

Sled Dogs: This seems like a Lurker variant. Since the Tavern mat is not communal like the Trash, Sled Dogs avoids the player interaction that keeps Lurker in check; I worry Sled Dogs is too strong, especially as a cantrip. I would keep the discarding as non-Reserve Action cards: You could play a single Wine Merchant multiple times per turn, discarding it with Sled Dogs. It also limits some Possession abuse with Distant Lands, etc. I also wonder if people will think on-gain effects should happen when you move a card from the Supply to your Tavern mat. Below is a version that actually gains the card, but could be wonky:

Quote
Sled Dogs
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face down, gain an Action card onto your Tavern mat costing up to $4. If it's face up, discard a non-Reserve Action card from your Tavern mat.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 09:59:06 pm »
0



Howís this?
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trivialknot

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2018, 10:15:22 pm »
+1

Thereís already sort of a cantrip gainer: Cobbler.  Cobblers are card neutral, in the sense of pushing a card from one hand to the next.  Sled Dogs are not quite card neutral, since every other play increases your hand size.  While you need to play two Sled dogs to get this effect, they also skip shuffles less often since they arenít durations.  Overall, Sled Dogs seem about as powerful as Cobbler, possibly more so.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2018, 10:24:56 pm »
0



Howís this?
Some wording fixes: Capitalize Duration and Reserve, and say non-Duration non-Reserve card. Hope I don't come off as critical; just trying to make the cards seem more professional.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2018, 10:50:58 pm »
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Okay then but saying non-duration changes the card to the exact opposite. I donít want this attack card to affect duration and reserves. Saying non means it doesnít affect normal actions, which is what I donít want.
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2018, 10:56:25 pm »
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Okay then but saying non-duration changes the card to the exact opposite. I donít want this attack card to affect duration and reserves. Saying non means it doesnít affect normal actions, which is what I donít want.
I mean, 'Until your next turn, the first time each other player plays a non-Duration non-Reserve Action card, they get +1 Card, +1 Action instead of following its instructions, then discards a card.'
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2018, 11:03:19 pm »
0

So for one thing cobbler is in nocturne. I hated nocturne! Iím not buying it. I did sorta like the idea of night cards. So I might make my own fan based night cards. The reason why I even made a whole fan based expansion was because of the disappointment with nocturne.

There are about 10 other cards in snowline that will be using the journey token. Snowline is going to be like adventures. It will also have some cards similar to dark ages like hermit/madman, urchin/mercenary. There will be 2 new travelers as well. Tons of other attacks and a few reactions and some similar to reactions. With lots of other durations and reserves.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2018, 11:04:28 pm »
0

Oh okay wait a few minutes letís see if I can make it more professional now that I understand
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2018, 11:12:10 pm »
0



Is that better?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:16:00 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Fly-Eagles-Fly

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2018, 11:17:27 pm »
0

The 'or a' between non-Duration and non-Reserve makes both phrases meaningless. Just 'plays a non-Duration non-Reserve Action card' would work. Also, Reserve and Duration should be capitalized in the bottom, but I'm not sure you need that. Just because there might not be cards with those types doesn't mean there needs to be. Also, if you do keep it, you would only need the Reserve part because Hibernating Bear is already a Duration card.
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trivialknot

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2018, 11:30:28 pm »
0

So for one thing cobbler is in nocturne. I hated nocturne! Iím not buying it. I did sorta like the idea of night cards. So I might make my own fan based night cards. The reason why I even made a whole fan based expansion was because of the disappointment with nocturne.

There are about 10 other cards in snowline that will be using the journey token. Snowline is going to be like adventures. It will also have some cards similar to dark ages like hermit/madman, urchin/mercenary. There will be 2 new travelers as well. Tons of other attacks and a few reactions and some similar to reactions. With lots of other durations and reserves.
Well sure.  But the comparison to Cobbler suggests that the natural price for Sled Dogs is $5.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2018, 11:33:33 pm »
0

Hmm okay I think about that. In the meantime hereís 3 more. And I might change sled dogs to $5 later as well




« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:16:31 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Asper

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 05:26:58 am »
0

So... You might want to make the width larger or at least remove the white half on all those images. Giving them a width of 100 while having half the image being blank, you effectively have a width of 100. That's tiny.

Asper

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2018, 05:52:47 am »
0

Also, whether or not you like Cobbler (or Nocturne) has nothing to say about card balance. Costing a card with comparable or higher strength at 4$ would be imbalanced even if Cobbler didn't exist.
That said, I think you should not exclude Reserves from Sled Dogs, and instead should exclude Victory cards (we don't want to gain Islands or Castles straight to the Tavern Mat). In fact, I think you could just make it "non-Victory". I also think that your grammar and wording is off. In Dominion, a card you add to your own is always "gained" (barring Masquerade), which by convention makes it unneccessary to mention "from the supply". So, I would word the card:

Sled Dogs, Action, 5ß
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a non-Victory card costing up to 4$ onto your Tavern Mat. Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, put a card from your Tavern Mat into your hand.

If you want it to be a 3$ cost, I suggest following Holunder9's wording (small alterations by me):

Sled Dogs, Action, 3$
+1 Card
+1 Action
Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). If it's face up, gain a non-Victory card costing up to 4$ to your Tavern Mat. Otherwise, discard a card from your Tavern Mat.

Holunder9

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2018, 06:32:28 am »
0

So for one thing cobbler is in nocturne. I hated nocturne! Iím not buying it.
That's irrelevant for evaluating card strength. I hate Cultist but its existence implies that you cannot make a Looter for $5 that draws 2 cards and does nothing else.
Workshop-Ironworks-Cobbler should always be in the back of one's mind when designing gainers as they are terminals, non-terminals, cantrips (it is a bit more complex, Ironworks is not always non-terminal and Cobbler is arguably weaker than a pure cantrip gainer) and thus have set some rough benchmarks.




Is that better?
There is no reason to excluse Durations (unless you wanna buff Bear himself) and Reserves and this is just Enchantress that draws an extra card. Not novel enough for my taste.


Hmm okay I think about that. In the meantime hereís 3 more. And I might change sled dogs to $5 later as well





This is a pretty good design. I like that there are many interactions among the 3 cards. Firn Village helps the opponents play their Avalanches and Snow Shoes helps the opponents get rid of their Curses or Firn Villages.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2018, 03:14:11 pm »
0

Originally hibernating bear was just +1 Action. But then someone said it was too nasty. I want hibernating bear to affect reserves at the least. After all they work with the tavern mat. The theme is not to wake the bear from its slumber. However if your heading for the tavern your not likely to wake the bear. I wanted to make at least reserves a way to avoid the bear.

Sort of like how adventures had events that you could buy to avoid swamp hag.

« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 03:32:21 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2018, 03:28:06 pm »
0

Houlonder9 Iím glad you like them. These are the 3 cards similar to dark ages. Thereís a couple others that I have yet to show, but I donít like them as much as these. At first I wanted to make a card with more minus points than curse. With all the different victory cards I thought we could use more curse like cards.

Incase you didnít know firn is a term used to define a ton of snow compacted on even more snow.

And since itís got so much compact snow, it would be hard to get rid of. Hence no trash just like fortress. But then I figured even if itís still a village itís still too nasty. Originally snow shoes was something else. And then that when I figured it out. Letís give them an alternative since they canít trash it. Letís make snow shoes more like masquerade. Except better! Since they can just leave it on their tavern mat. And for the card they want to transfer.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2018, 06:51:48 pm »
0

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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2018, 08:05:14 pm »
0



This is too good. Your opening cards are supposed to be junk that you want to get rid of or sift through because that makes things more interesting. Why would you ever trash this? It never hurts and always helps, and helps a lot in fact. Since it will never be trashed, it won't make any difference in the game at all, except in obnoxious luck cases like a trashing attack hitting it.
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crlundy

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2018, 08:39:14 pm »
0

Also if Log Cabin gives VP tokens, it doesn't need to be a Victory card. See, e.g. Monument.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2018, 08:54:45 pm »
0



Didnít mean for the plus to be there.

Sure a lot of people like to get rid of there starting cards. Iím not one of them. Iím a copper strategist and win almost every game with Actions that work well with coppers I also donít usually get rid of my estates either.

And starting with one less estate doesnít really change things you just have one less card to trash.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:17:31 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2018, 09:26:36 pm »
0

Sure a lot of people like to get rid of there starting cards. Iím not one of them. Iím a copper strategist and win almost every game with Actions that work well with coppers I also donít usually get rid of my estates either.

What sorts of games are you playing, and who are you playing them with? There are barely any cards that work well with Coppers; the vast majority of them either hate Coppers entirely or only like them for trashing. Trashing is simply something you have to do to beat an experienced player.

And starting with one less estate doesnít really change things you just have one less card to trash.

That's exactly what I'm saying though. It doesn't change anything, so it's boring.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2018, 10:14:51 pm »
0

Apothecary, beggar, ill gotten gains, counting house, settlers/bustling village, fountain, Coppersmith, stables, storyteller, baron works with estate, triumph, Shepherd, and followers work with estate will. And when bandit fort is in the game keeping your coppers is in your best interest. I donít mind gaining coppers with count to get 3$ or a duchy. Also wishing well almost always gives me a free copper. Will o wisp too.

So thereís lots of cards. That work with copper strategies.

Apothecary is one of the best. One time I won when chapel was also in the game. The player used chapel quite a lot I won the game by over a dozen victory points. Also fountain has helped me win quite a few times as well. Iíll gotten gains has also been a big help and so has beggar. Settlers too. And stables and storyteller have also been instrumental in winning both online and in person. The only one that hasnít been very beneficial is counting house.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2018, 10:48:37 pm »
0

Apothecary, beggar, ill gotten gains, counting house, settlers/bustling village, fountain, Coppersmith, stables, storyteller

When you consider how many cards there are now, that's a puny amount. And half of the ones you mentioned don't even count:

Beggar is only good if there are other cards with Copper synergies on the board. You can't win a game just by gaining Coppers; you actually have to do something with them.
Ill Gotten Gains: Same thing here. It gains Coppers, but that's not the same as actually having synergy with them. You'll still want to trash the Coppers after gaining them if you can. The Coppers are more of a penalty to prevent it from becoming too powerful.
Settlers is extremely unreliable. Usually you only want to use the Copper ability in the beginning before you've trashed them.
Storyteller: You are aware that Storytelling Coppers doesn't actually increase your handsize, right? This is another case where it can deal with the Coppers but it would very much prefer not to.

It's also worth noting that Counting House and Coppersmith are absurdly weak and need a large amount of support to be worth it.

Fountain is similar in that it needs support to be worth it.

With Stables you can often get away with not trashing Coppers but it's still often a good idea to trash at least a few.

Apothecary is the only card that can support a Copper strategy on its own. And even then, it starts dudding pretty fast.

Once again, I have to ask what sorts of games you're playing. Do you really never trash?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 10:57:11 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2018, 11:09:52 pm »
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Well to each his own. We all have cards we love and we have cards we hate. If you think log cabin is boring. Well thatís life. Are there any existing expansions that donít have cards that are boring. I donít know of any. So I am intitaled to have a few as well. And log cabin isnít the only card Iíve put on here. And I happen to think log cabin is awesome. Iím just posting them on here for fun. Getting some feedback. Maybe tweak them a little if they need to be.

And as far as the those other cards with all the terms with synergies and stuff. That just goes over my head. Dominion is just game after all. If you think my card is boring, then give me a better alternative. Instead of complaining itís just boring or too nasty, or too powerful. Give me some ideas to tweak them to make them better. After all I donít think you gave me any good ideas for any of my chuckles and crlundy noticed I had it give out tokens, which I didnít mean to do. So thanks crlundy I fixed that at least.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:13:06 pm by ClouduHieh »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2018, 11:18:04 pm »
0

Thanks for the help fly eagles fly. I hope hibernating bear looks a bit more professional.

Holunder9 as well thanks for being positive with avalanche, firn village, and snow shoes. I hope you like some of the other cards I post on here.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2018, 12:41:48 am »
0



« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:17:54 pm by ClouduHieh »
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crlundy

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2018, 02:47:53 am »
0

Wolves/Carcass is interesting, I appreciate the synergies between the cards.

Wolves: Even though the discard attack doesn't stack, it is likely too powerful at $5. Opening with this and playing it before your opponents have multiple actions in hand will likely kill their turns. Donald X. said Raider at $5 was oppressive, and it has a similar-but-milder attack (I know you're not a Nocturne fan, but the design principle holds). The Carcasses help feed the Wolves, but until someone plays two Wolves in one turn, you don't have any, and are discarding e.g. the Wolves you got to try to fight back.

Carcass: This seems harsh overall. I don't think it needs to make you discard (Ruined Village is already the worst Ruin), and I don't think it needs to fish Curses from the Trash.

I also agree with Commodore Chuckles that Copper is a bad card, and it is nearly always possible to beat Copper-centric strategies. You are of course welcome to make any cards you enjoy playing with, but you will receive constructive and honest feedback from posting here. Some ideas can be improved, but sometimes you try something else; Donald X. shared his numerous ideas that didn't make it (a fascinating read). But at the end of the day, you do you, and just enjoy playing the game.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2018, 03:51:12 am »
0

Crlundy I appreciate your tactfullness. Iím going to change wolves and carcass a little bit.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2018, 04:14:15 am »
0



« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:18:24 pm by ClouduHieh »
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faust

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2018, 07:05:45 am »
0

Wolves is a lot stronger than Cultist, and Cultist isn't exactly the weakest card out there, so you might want to tone it down a bit.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2018, 11:40:39 am »
0

I just did. It discarded actions earlier. And it only costed 5 now it costs 6 instead. Cultist only costed 5. And margrave was nastier than this and it only costed 5. Gaining a carcass doesnít effect your score anyway. And how many wolves is each player going to gain anyway. Are they really going to pass up a gold a couple of times to buy 3 or 4 times. Snowline is a theme. You think itís easy to live places like Alaska and North Dakota. Do those colder states have more population than places like Texas and Florida. Nope. Because colder climates are harsher. Less people want to live in places such as these. So itís sopose to have some powerful attacks. It goes with the theme of my expansion. But to cushion the blow maybe when such player plays with a powerful attack they will have a useful defense. I mean I gave a useful defense to avalanche and firn village. Snow shoes. So just wait and see cause you havenít seen all of my reactions yet. I still have a few more to reveal. And yes you wonít always get a useful reaction to the attack. But it wouldnít be a random game if you always got the cards you preferred anyway. Just wait until you see some the other reactions before you howl at the wolves.

And if avalanche was also with wolves you would have another useful way to get rid of carcass.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 11:44:17 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2018, 01:16:14 pm »
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I'm a bit sad that Wolves/Carcass lost their interaction (being able to discard Carcass to Wolves), but the nerf is good. It's still strong as compared to Cultist, even for $1 more, since it also militias your opponents, and gives +1 Action if you have a second Wolves. Love that Carcass is simpler, I would need to play with it to evaluate how strong the on-trash junking is.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2018, 02:22:07 pm »
0



This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2018, 02:23:47 pm »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2018, 02:26:07 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:23:46 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2018, 03:33:06 pm »
+1



This is far too strong. Even assuming you had to use one Action per copy of this to get it back, it would still basically read +1 Card, +1 Action, +2$, which is too strong for 5$. All Grand Market has in addition is an extra buy, and as nice as a buy is, Grand Market costs 6$ AND has a very harsh buy restriction.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2018, 04:14:41 pm »
+1

A little tip if you want your cards to be coloured like official ones: on VioletCLM's card generator, if a card has only one colour on its banner, put the type of it in the Primary box, then in the Secondary box put 'SAME'. With Log Cabin, you'll want to put Victory as the Primary, and Action/Event as Secondary.

Of all your cards here so far, the Avalanche set is my favourite. The interactions with all the cards and what they do are sound. How many Firn Villages are there though? And you might want to use the same wording as Fortress for it, 'when you trash this, put it into your hand', because if it's trashed by another player's Knight there could be some confusion over whose hand it goes to. Fortress's wording is safe here.

Edit after Asper's 'ninja': Lodge is a fine way to make a card use 2 Actions. I would suggest the bottom  be worded "At the start of your Buy phase, for every unused Action you have, you may discard a Lodge from your Tavern mat." Then give it only +1 Action or make it a big terminal.

Snowy Owl is a simple and effective card, but with an extra Buy you can get 2 Lurkers for $4 anyway. Trash for benefit cards and games with no +Buys still like this of course.
Then writing this I realise Lurker shines in both these situations, so actually this a more elegant design again. Well done you.

Frigid Village is a strictly better Caravan, so that would push the cost to $5. Unless you add an on-gain effect to change this.
And reading your comments on it...are you designing this to be a set that plays by itself, or one to mix with other sets? Almost everyone on this forum will assume mixing with other sets, so that may affect the feedback you get.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 04:26:14 pm by Aquila »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2018, 05:56:11 pm »
+1



This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
This is strictly better than Caravan.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2018, 06:07:07 pm »
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This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
This is strictly better than Caravan.

Edge case: next turn you are going to play Storyteller then Diadem, and drawing 1 extra card would cause a badly-timed reshuffle.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2018, 06:24:29 pm »
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This one you get to start with +2 Actions on your next turn and start with 6 cards on your next turn. Of course if you were to play a lot of these it could make the next turn too powerful. Of course with all the attack cards. Iím sure one of them will tone this card down.
This is strictly better than Caravan.

Edge case: next turn you are going to play Storyteller then Diadem, and drawing 1 extra card would cause a badly-timed reshuffle.

That edge case is too extreme to make Frigid Village not strictly better than Caravan.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2018, 06:47:31 pm »
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ClouduHieh, I'm sorry that you found my criticism unconstructive. I'll try to be more specific.

Making a starting card that's better and more expensive than Estate is a neat idea, but isn't it more interesting if it has a significant drawback that might motivate you trash it? Log Cabin as it is now will never hurt you, so that interesting choice is gone. An example from the actual game is Cursed Gold: it's certainly more powerful and expensive than Copper, but it gives you Curses. Also, isn't it more fun to build up your deck by buying good cards rather than just starting out with them?

One more thing: Is this supposed to be a kingdom pile that you can buy? If so, are there still only 10 and the pile shrinks as the number of players goes up? An explanation would be helpful.

Also, as a kingdom card Log Cabin is pretty much a slightly better Great Hall. There's a reason Great Hall was cut: It ended up functioning pretty much the same as Estate and not making a difference in games. Buying it instead of getting cards that actually make your deck better was always a terrible option, and then at the end of the game when you actually wanted it the cantrip ability didn't really matter because you didn't care at that point if your deck was good. Just something to think about.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2018, 07:07:10 pm »
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Ignoring all discussion about whether or not you can be a good player without ever trashing your starting cards, Commodore Chuckles is still correct about 2 important things:

1) Log Cabin is essentially strictly better than Great Hall. You could come up with an extreme edge case where you'd rather play a Great Hall, but it would be super rare. Log Cabin is actually much stronger.

2) Having everyone start with a card that you would never want to trash basically makes the game exactly the same as having no one start with that card. In many ways, the Setup rules of Log Cabin just play out similar to "in games using this, each player gets an extra 1 when scoring". It has no actual effect on gameplay or strategy. All it does is artificially increase each player's final score by 1.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2018, 09:11:48 pm »
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Well first of all log cabin will have 14 all together so each player would start with just one and there would only be 10 more to buy. However Iíll have to change it a little it has its sopose be helpful when dealing with a blizzard which you guys yet to see. Blizzard is going to an event that always have log cabins with it. Also snowy owl is sopose to have 16, just like port did. You may start with a log cabin and may not want to trash however that might change when you see blizzard.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2018, 09:16:12 pm »
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Some good ideas here.

I think Log Cabin would be fine and good as a kingdom card pile without the setup.

I'd like Frigid Village at $5 cost. I think it would still be quite strong costing $5.

I agree with Aquila's suggestion about Lodge.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #50 on: October 19, 2018, 10:05:15 pm »
0



« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:19:43 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #51 on: October 19, 2018, 10:40:20 pm »
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How are these? I made it so frigid village would make your next turn start with +2 Actions.

And I took the card away from lodge and gave it an extra action. Also the only way to keep playing with it is to play only 1 other action that doesnít give you any actions.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:20:06 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #52 on: October 19, 2018, 10:52:13 pm »
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Blizzard: This is an attack directed at only one opponent (not actually an attack but close enough). Generally it's considered to be in the proper "spirit" of the game if all opponents are hurt by attackoids, to avoid politicking.

The "attack" part of the card is definitely brutal. Blizzard itself is an Event, so it's unaffected by the 5-and-up ban, which is an interesting self-synergy, but might cause it to completely take over the game, so I'd be careful of that. Deciding when to trash the Log Cabin offers an interesting choice, though. You can use it to grab a last minute Duchy to put yourself over the finish, which is nice.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #53 on: October 19, 2018, 11:09:40 pm »
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True thatís why I made it 12$. Of course players will buy it if they can. But depending on the game it may not happen very often. I also wanted to make it similar to possession with a chance to block it. The real possession never gave you a chance. Unless you had a horrible hand that was possessioned on.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2018, 11:12:33 pm »
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And perhaps it hits your opponent when they have horrible hand anyway. And of course the other can get back at the player that played it. Unless itís 3 or 4 player game.

And if I did make it affect each player it might make the game wonkier.  Especially if it happens multiple times in a row.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 11:13:47 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2018, 11:15:57 pm »
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But now it gives a better reason to start the game with one log cabin. So they can prepare for a blizzard.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2018, 11:43:14 pm »
+4

just So you guys know. Snowline is a term to define an area where the snow never melts. Originally I thought I would call it the tundra or taiga expansion. But snowline seems a lot cooler in more ways than one. Iíve always loved the flavor texts of each expansion they always make me laugh. So I thought Iíd create my own too.

Few have gone where your going. You have claimed most of the warmer lands. But these frigid lands have remained mostly untouched. But be careful you have heard of outlaws, wolves and even bears attacking any who choose to come here. When you arrive donít forget to hire a lumberjack to build you a log cabin. And a fur coat from the fur trader. And if you come across a yeti, run away! And donít forget to stop by the nearest lodge for a pint of cider. Oh look itís the lumberjack from earlier. Oh what luck! Your log cabin was recently damaged by a blizzard. Oh thatís nothing sir! An avalanche struck a village not far from here. A few pints later youíll be telling stories of how you fought that yeti off. And then they laugh out loud when you tell them your doing all this for a few good igloos.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #57 on: October 20, 2018, 03:18:29 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:20:29 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #58 on: October 20, 2018, 03:24:50 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:20:41 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2018, 03:40:01 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:21:06 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #60 on: October 20, 2018, 03:47:00 pm »
0


Dude, that is a just a cheaper, lamer Magpie that cannot gain itself.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #61 on: October 21, 2018, 05:33:52 am »
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I just wanted to say that that I like your flavor text.

I kind of feel that Fishing Hole's effect is a bit unreliable considering it needs the Journey token face up. I flip that thing, I reveal those things, oops, no Treasures, now reorder them. That seems a bit too much effort and fiddling for what it does. While I admit that the reordering could come in handy, it only does so with other specific kingdom cards, and only every second time. I guess my main issue is how this is twice unreliable.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #62 on: October 21, 2018, 05:46:29 am »
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So asper was the fishing hole without the journey token better then?
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #63 on: October 21, 2018, 06:12:10 am »
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So asper was the fishing hole without the journey token better then?

I actually think it was. Holunder generally likes to complain about cards that he thinks are boring, but I think it's a mistake to assume that only because a card does something simple, it plays uninterestingly. I feel Magpie's self-gaining has such a huge impact on the card that it plays entirely different. That said, the effect in itself doesn't involve all that many decisions. My suggestion is to try it out. Maybe you can give it a little extra, like an on-gain effect or something, if it should play dull, after all.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #64 on: October 21, 2018, 11:37:15 am »
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I think Iíll keep it the same the first one I mean. I already removed the second one. Itís okay to have some cards in an expansion that are simple anyway. And generally cards costing 2$ and 3$ usually are just that. And most expansions donít have very many 2$s anyway.

Just so you guys know I have about another 10 or so differently named cards I have yet posted not including the travelers. So about 20 more differently named cards yet to show. And who knows I might come up with new ideas. Carcass was a new idea. And 2 cards that were thought of and put together by other friends. Those 2 I will not change. Iíll let you know when I post those 2 cards. One was created by a young avid dominion player. The other one his uncle did.

And blizzard was a duration card which I made into an event instead.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #65 on: October 21, 2018, 11:48:18 am »
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I know much you guys seem to hate copper strategies. I would be very surprised if you Guys like this one.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:21:20 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #66 on: October 21, 2018, 12:11:33 pm »
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Another reason to keep some coppers. Similar to Ill  gotten gains except itís a victory.

Now the reason why I think it should give out curses. Is because first of all glaciers are a thing a beauty, however getting to close could be dangerous. And if you got to this such and such glacier before anyone else, then the other players should get something bad. Cause it could possibly be near death experience.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:21:46 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #67 on: October 21, 2018, 12:17:20 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:22:09 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #68 on: October 21, 2018, 01:13:06 pm »
+1

I think you got the wrong impression. We don't "hate" Copper strategies; we just believe trashing them usually helps you win more often given the nature of the game and the current cards. We also think the fact that trashing is important is one of the things that makes the game so strategically deep. Having said that, I actually do find Copper strategies interesting, precisely because they're so rarely good, and I'm sure a lot of others here would agree.

About the cards themselves:

Igloo looks fine.

Copper Mine is very similar to Coppersmith, another card that was cut because of how weak it was. It's clearly better though, since it doesn't take an action to play and it also gives $1 itself. It might still be weak, but that's all right; it looks interesting enough. The Copper-gaining is interesting because it could be good or bad: It can make the Copper better but gaining Copper in the beginning is usually awful and you might not draw it with the Copper Mine.

About Glacier, Ill-Gotten-Gains is widely hated because of how often it leads to the same strategy: It empties two piles at once, so the best thing to do is to just buy nothing but IGGs and then empty the Duchies or Estates. This card might lead to a similar rush, but probably less often: It's more expensive and it's a dead card that doesn't provide economy. Still, the fact that it gives you points while cursing everyone else makes it seem likely to be rush-y. The Copper restraint is interesting, but it won't make a difference if you're rushing these. If it's better to buy it toward the end, though, forcing you to keep Coppers could be interesting.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #69 on: October 21, 2018, 03:43:20 pm »
+1

This card might lead to a similar rush, but probably less often: It's more expensive and it's a dead card that doesn't provide economy. Still, the fact that it gives you points while cursing everyone else makes it seem likely to be rush-y.
Also, it is a Victory pile, so it won't run out at the same time as Curses.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #70 on: October 21, 2018, 05:47:36 pm »
0

Exactly the game wonít end near as fast as Iíll gotten gains especially if you did end up trashing most of your coppers when you do start buying this. Assuming the curse pile isnít already empty. But if there is no other card that gives them out. There may be some players stuck with curses they didnít have time to trash. Usually the curse pile is near empty by the time you focus on buying provinces and duchies. So this should add a little difference to the end of the game.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #71 on: October 21, 2018, 05:56:19 pm »
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Okay Iíll be posting the first set of travelers today. Now as you know the a few of the travelers were quite powerful cards. Especially champion (endless actions and endless moat at all times) only a few cards could still get thru the champion, Ill gotten gains being one of them. So it was quite a daunting task to create 2 new sets of travelers let alone kind of being a story of the original travelers were like. And finding pictures for a lot of them was very tough. Some of the pictures may not be quite right. But it was I could get.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #72 on: October 21, 2018, 06:13:22 pm »
0









« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:22:56 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #73 on: October 21, 2018, 06:23:08 pm »
0

So this is the story of the churl.

When he was young he lived on the streets, was treated bad by all. And so he lashed out at all.
Eventually he was exiled from the town. So he started drifting from town to town looking for a place to call home. Eventually he traversed the mountains, finally a place that accepted him. He became a mountaineer to guide travelers thru the mountains. Eventually he became a great hunter, mostly because of his traveling companion. Then he became a wealthy fur trader. After all people will pay anything for a warm fur coat in these treacherous lands.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #74 on: October 21, 2018, 06:37:42 pm »
+1

You seem to be quickly getting better at designing fan cards. I like these recent ones.

Coppermine looks like a much improved Coppersmith. I like it.

I think Igloo is my favorite. For some reason, I really like action-victory cards in general.

Personally, I house-rule that buying IGG (or Haunted Castle or Raid, etc) counts as playing an attack for the purpose of any reactions. Then again, I don't play with IGG in my real life games, and I haven't yet introduced Raid to my home play group, so Haunted Castle is the only time this house rule has actually come up. I might try out Glacier though, because it looks much less likely to cause the un-fun rushes that IGG does. Because of its cost and it being a dead card once it enters your deck, I think trying to rush them before you already have some kind of engineish thing going would be a bad idea.

as for the travellers:
- Churl: Making other players discard the top of their deck is not an attack (see Tribute). In the early game especially, it's more likely to help them than hurt them. Maybe have them reveal the top card of their deck and discard it if it's an action or treasure? (like a cross between Spy and Rabble)
- Drifter looks fine.
- Mountaineer: Stronger than Lab which is stronger than Fugitive, which is already strong for a $4 cost. Fugitive is okay because it's a traveller, but Mountaineer is probably too strong even for a traveller. Might be okay as the $5 traveller in the line.
- Fur Trader looks fine, not as strong as Teacher or Champion, but still very good. OTOH, Hunter looks like it might be just as strong as Fur Trader. Compared to Disciple though, it strength might be okay. It looks like you'll want to keep your Hunters for a few turns before exchanging them for Fur Traders.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 06:39:43 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #75 on: October 21, 2018, 07:17:17 pm »
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Just so you guys know that the next time I post the last set of travelers isnít quite on theme for snowline. But except for the first one and last one they are all attacks. And the last one is an awesome reaction.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 07:29:19 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #76 on: October 21, 2018, 07:28:31 pm »
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And then after those there will be at least 13 more, at least one more that isnít in the supply, at least one more victory, at least one more duration, at least one more reserve, at least 1 more reaction, and at least 3 more attacks. And one those attacks is also a nasty reaction. So I guess you could call it a reaction like attack. And one the cards mentioned is similar to a reaction. So I have wet your appetite. Also I still have at least 2 more cards to post on my alchemy thread.

So including the travelers 6 more attacks.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 07:29:57 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #77 on: October 21, 2018, 07:34:19 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:14:42 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #78 on: October 21, 2018, 07:43:54 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:14:27 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #79 on: October 21, 2018, 07:56:25 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 05:14:11 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2018, 08:12:18 pm »
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I feel like even if this attacked every time, instead of every-other time, it would still not be too strong.

If you want simpler wording, just look at Cutpurse and replace "Copper" with "Silver or Gold".
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2018, 08:31:27 pm »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2018, 08:32:32 pm »
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Well instead what if freezing forest was 3$ instead then? Would it be just right.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2018, 04:38:38 am »
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Igloo doesn't work when worded like this. I suppose you mean something like "This and your next turn, when you gain a card...".
Edit: Your

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2018, 06:33:20 am »
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Eagles is, worst case:

+4 Cards
+1 Action

It's much too strong.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2018, 08:53:03 am »
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It would be nice if you would put all your cards in the opening post, so they're all in one place.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2018, 09:35:28 am »
+1

- Churl: Making other players discard the top of their deck is not an attack (see Tribute). In the early game especially, it's more likely to help them than hurt them. Maybe have them reveal the top card of their deck and discard it if it's an action or treasure? (like a cross between Spy and Rabble)
- Drifter looks fine.
- Mountaineer: Stronger than Lab which is stronger than Fugitive, which is already strong for a $4 cost. Fugitive is okay because it's a traveller, but Mountaineer is probably too strong even for a traveller. Might be okay as the $5 traveller in the line.

I agree to most of these, escpecially that Churl is not an attack and that Mountaineer is too strong. I'll add that Drifter is also too strong, though. I know that you don't like trashing, but you got to realize that - unless overdone or done without sufficient control - it is very useful, and not a liability. Trashing a card from your hand has control, so for the biggest part of the game, this is +4$, gain a Silver, trash a junk card from your hand. Trading Post is worse than this, as it doesn't give you anything if you don't trash, and costs 5$. The fact that Trading Post trashes 2 cards is both an up- and a downside, though. So Drifter would arguably be okay if it was the same without the +2$. Just: You may trash a card from your hand to gain a Silver in hand.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2018, 10:28:16 am »
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It would be nice if you would put all your cards in the opening post, so they're all in one place.

Agreed. And it would be great if there were text to go along with the images... the images are either too small to easily read, or you click on them to expand the image, and they're way too large to even see all at once.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #88 on: October 22, 2018, 04:38:20 pm »
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Eagles is, worst case:

+4 Cards
+1 Action

It's much too strong.

Indeed. It can also be, if you wanted, almost exactly like Sentry, except with looking at 3 cards instead of 2, and getting some combination of an extra cards and extra money. It's ridiculously strong.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #89 on: October 22, 2018, 05:26:19 pm »
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There I made them bigger should be easier to read. Also I havenít read any posts about cold storage, lumberjack, hunters camp, and horse rider yet.

And now there bigger so they should be easier to read.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #90 on: October 22, 2018, 05:39:14 pm »
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Also I havenít read any posts about cold storage, lumberjack, hunters camp, and horse rider yet.
If you had all the cards in the OP, we could find them easily long after the initial discussion fades or it flips to a new page.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #91 on: October 22, 2018, 06:09:41 pm »
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How are these? I made it so frigid village would make your next turn start with +2 Actions.


This version of Frigid Village is basically just a weaker regular Village. You'd rather have the action now than next turn, and Durations miss the shuffle more; requiring twice as many for the same effect if you are drawing your deck. (See how Carvan costs less than Laboratory because it gives the card next turn instead of now).

Also compare it to Fishing Village.

As is, it might work at .

*Edit* Then again, it seems a little better than Ghost Town, with the exception of the "gained to your hand" bit. Not sure if Ghost town is considered weak enough to get away with a better on-play effect that costs less.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2018, 06:16:29 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #92 on: October 22, 2018, 06:31:35 pm »
+1

*Edit* Then again, it seems a little better than Ghost Town, with the exception of the "gained to your hand" bit. Not sure if Ghost town is considered weak enough to get away with a better on-play effect that costs less.
The hand-gaining is huge, you get a half Exploration. I also don't think that it is clear at all whether Ghost Town being a more delayed village than Frigid Village is a liability or an asset due to the increase of consistency.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #93 on: October 22, 2018, 08:02:45 pm »
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The reason why didnít post all at the same time is it would take me hours to post them all at once. Also if I can only reply back and fix a couple of them at time. If I posted all of them at once it would be too much for me to handle all at once. I wouldnít be able to fix any of them. I only post more when Iím certain Iíve got a few of them looking good. Not too powerful ect.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #94 on: October 22, 2018, 08:09:48 pm »
+1

What a lot of other people do is keep updating the very first post in the thread with every new card they add, in addition to making separate posts about them.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #95 on: October 23, 2018, 04:04:24 am »
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Agreed. You will find that your own posts show a little text saying "Modify" in the top right (next to the text to "Quote" it and the number showing your upvotes). Just click on that "Modify", and you can alter the post after the fact. I've altered my thread's OP over and over again for years.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #96 on: October 23, 2018, 08:02:13 am »
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I like Lumberjack, but it has way too many syntax errors (I think that syntax is the word). This is how it is, versus how it should be.

+ $2
+2 Buys
You may trash a treasure from your discard pile. Put this on your tavern mat.
-
At the end of your buy phase. You may call this if you only gained one card this turn.

Versus this:
+2 Buys
+$2
Look through your discard pile. You may trash a Treasure card from your discard pile. Put this on your Tavern mat.
-
At the end of your Buy phase, if you only gained one card this turn, you may discard this from your Tavern mat.

Sorry to need to criticize but it's much easier to read and analyze your cards if they're worded and punctuated correctly.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #97 on: October 23, 2018, 08:13:49 am »
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I suggest "no more than one card" for Lumberjack.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #98 on: October 23, 2018, 08:15:12 am »
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Cold Storage is neat. Hunters Camp is strong, but pleasently balanced by the silver gaining. For Horse Rider, does the Journey token actually do anything for it, because otherwise that part only matters if there's other Journey token cards in the kingdom. Also, these cards also have several capitalization and punctuation errors. Journey and Silver should both be capitalized. Card is not capitalized. There should be 'or's between choices. There should be a comma in after 'this' in the bottom part of Hunters Camp.
Also I agree with Asper.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #99 on: October 23, 2018, 06:24:25 pm »
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But Iím pretty sure all the reserve cards from adventures say call this from your tavern mat. I donít think any of them say discard from your tavern mat.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #100 on: October 23, 2018, 06:29:56 pm »
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But Iím pretty sure all the reserve cards from adventures say call this from your tavern mat. I donít think any of them say discard from your tavern mat.
Wine Merchant
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #101 on: October 23, 2018, 09:09:45 pm »
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Also, Tavern mat.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2018, 09:05:05 pm »
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There I think I fixed all the errors for lumberjack.

Now about horse rider true if there is no other actions that flip the journey token over than yeah itís not very useful. But you might still do it once in awhile because you might have a good hand and not want to discard for a 1$. But when there are other actions that use the journey token. Thatís when horse rider will really shine. I wanted to have an action that worked with journey tokens but only in a strategic way. Basically making combo card for a variety of other actions. And horse rider gives other choices anyway.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2018, 09:36:26 pm »
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Now is this too powerful for a 6 costing card? And I think this is the first card that lets you discard curses for a benefit.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 09:38:18 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2018, 09:41:46 pm »
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There I think I fixed all the errors for lumberjack.

Now about horse rider true if there is no other actions that flip the journey token over than yeah itís not very useful. But you might still do it once in awhile because you might have a good hand and not want to discard for a 1$. But when there are other actions that use the journey token. Thatís when horse rider will really shine. I wanted to have an action that worked with journey tokens but only in a strategic way. Basically making combo card for a variety of other actions. And horse rider gives other choices anyway.
You should capitalize Treasure and Buy phase, also, '...discard pile. You may trash...'

You could make Horse Rider part of a Split pile with something that uses the Journey token, or with something that only works if the Journey token is face up but only flips it face down and not back up, so you would need Horse Rider. I do like it the way it is, but I feel like it could be better.



Now is this too powerful for a 6 costing card? And I think this is the first card that lets you discard curses for a benefit.
I like this new Eagle, but you shouldn't have the really long space in between. See Ironworks.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #105 on: October 24, 2018, 09:42:47 pm »
0

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #106 on: October 24, 2018, 09:44:23 pm »
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Well sacrifice has a big gap between
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #107 on: October 24, 2018, 09:56:56 pm »
+1



Now is this too powerful for a 6 costing card? And I think this is the first card that lets you discard curses for a benefit.

This could be interesting now; except that I donít think the action or treasur option are useful at all. Using it to discard a Victory card is a lot like Hunting Grounds. Using it to discard a Curse is like a double lab. The other 2 options are terminal silver or Necropolis; both horrible. Especially since discarding an action is generally bad.

Discarding an action should give you something better than discarding a Victory, to make it an interesting deicision.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #108 on: October 24, 2018, 09:58:58 pm »
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First of all Ice Sculptures looks fun; not sure its name needs to be plural.
If you notice on Sacrifice, the 'Action: +2 Cards, +2 Actions' part has a small space in between, then the words Treasure and Victory are lined up straight with the word Action, and the +$2 and +2VP are centered directly underneath +2 Cards +2 Actions
Also, I second GendoIkari's observations.
Edit: Also if you look on the wiki page for Sacrifice (Here it is: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Sacrifice), you'll notice that the digital version does not have any big gaps.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 10:00:52 pm by Fly-Eagles-Fly »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #109 on: October 24, 2018, 11:03:42 pm »
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But are you guys also forgetting al those action-victory cards I have. Discard an igloo, and log cabin, then you get +2 Actions and +3 Cards. Which is powerful. What if I made it +3 Actions and/or switched action and victory benefits?
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #110 on: October 24, 2018, 11:17:28 pm »
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Originally old barn was in the supply but after a recent reply I decided to have it work with horse rider instead.

Hereís a theme:

You have been on a journey with your horse. It starts snowing like crazy. You happen to come across an old abandoned barn. While your in this old barn your journey has been put on hold.

That is why even though it works with the journey token. It does not let you flip the journey token over. If you did manage to flip it over earlier with horse rider you will get a nicer benefit. If you didnít youíll get the dungeon effect which may or may not be useful. And of course if there are cards using the journey token, this could change this cards abilities multiple times.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 11:31:49 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #111 on: October 25, 2018, 12:01:04 am »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #112 on: October 25, 2018, 12:15:29 am »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #113 on: October 25, 2018, 03:53:07 am »
+1

But are you guys also forgetting al those action-victory cards I have. Discard an igloo, and log cabin, then you get +2 Actions and +3 Cards. Which is powerful. What if I made it +3 Actions and/or switched action and victory benefits?
Just to reiterate, of course you can design your cards any way you like. But generally, it is considered a bad idea to have the strength of a card heavily depend on other cards in the kingdom, or an expansion in general. Scout apparently at one time seemed not-quite-horrible when playtested together with the dual-type Victory cards of Intrigue, and Rebuild doesn't appear quite as overly strong when played with Shelters. Both cards are awful. Scout because it is practically useless without (and actually weak even with) dual Victory cards in the kingdom, and Rebuild because its crushing, monolithic strength becomes apparent once you play with Estates. Similarly, Transmute might seem okay if you planned to pick up other Potion cards, anyhow. Verdict of all these: Don't make your cards rely on other cards that they are not guaranteed to be played with.

My suggestion would be:
Action: +2 Cards, +2 Actions
Treasure: +3$
Neither: +3 Cards

I think even that card can cost 5$.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #114 on: October 25, 2018, 05:46:48 am »
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With this being a cross between Swindler and Jester, what's the idea behind it being called Weasel? Also, compared to Jester itself, this seems a tad strong. While it's arguable whether the attack is worse than Jester's (it certainly is when hitting e.g. a Lab, but it's entirely harmless when hitting e.g. an Estate), Jester at the very least can't both attack and gain a card for the same thing revealed. It's probably not broken, but worth noting.

Again about Lumberjack: Going with the current wording, you can't discard it if you didn't gain any card.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #115 on: October 25, 2018, 10:37:59 am »
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But are you guys also forgetting al those action-victory cards I have. Discard an igloo, and log cabin, then you get +2 Actions and +3 Cards. Which is powerful. What if I made it +3 Actions and/or switched action and victory benefits?

If people are using this card the way most people use most cards, then most of the games it appears in will not have an action-victory card. This was one the problems with Scout (not the only one).

Just switching action and victory doesn't seem good; discarding an action for +3 cards acts just like a Smithy, while discarding a victory for +2 actions acts a little like a Village. Still weak no matter what option you choose.

I think discarding a Victory for +3 cards is good, because that makes it similar to Hunting Grounds. (Remember that discarding a victory from your deck is kind of like drawing an extra card most of the time).
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #116 on: October 25, 2018, 10:41:11 am »
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Without the attack reaction bit, this card actually just works like

+1 card
+1 action
+

Strictly better than Conspirator; way too good.

I think the idea of an attack response that works while it's on the Tavern Mat is good; but it would make more sense if it protected you from the attack rather than gained a card I think.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #117 on: October 25, 2018, 11:06:49 am »
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Eagles was different earlier. It was completely powerful on its own. So I changed it to where itís powerful with particular cards and gets you by on its own. So which version is best. The first one or the second one. Itís either going to too powerful or itís going to be powerful with particular cards.

Lumberjack I donít know what you mean by whatís wrong with it you will have to show me visually if Iím going to grasp whatís wrong with it.

I toned down weasel for you guys! You should be happy! Because I was going to post it with the possibility that if a Province was trashed. The attacker could gain a Province too.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #118 on: October 25, 2018, 11:21:52 am »
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Fur coat

Yeah you could do it that way. However wouldnít it be more strategic to save it for later. How many times in a game do you have 2 action cards neither give + actions. Now the dilemma which action do you play with I mean thier both good. Oh wait I still have a fur coat on my tavern mat. So this is what Iíll do Iíll play goons, Then I call the fur coat I get to draw another card and I get another action great now I get to play soothsayer too. So yeah you could waste it and play it like you would conspirator. So I guess it just depends what actions are being played with. But that was real point behind this card. And the fact that if an attack card was in the game you would save it for that.

Sample:

Player 1 calls a fur coat the same turn he played it so just like conspirator. Player 1 had a fairly good turn he was able to buy a gold. Player 2 called a fur coat after playing goons and then played swamp hag Player 2 had an awesome turn. Player 3 called a fur coat when player 2 played goons so he could gain a swamp hag. Player 3 had a pretty good turn, despite goons. He was technically able to gain a swamp hag However he didnít think getting a silver and a curse was worth it. Player 1 didnít have fur coat on the tavern mat. So he ends his turn having gained nothing. Cause buy a silver gain a curse not worth it.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:51:14 am by ClouduHieh »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2018, 11:29:07 am »
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Fur coat

Yeah you could do it that way. However wouldnít it be more strategic to save it for later. How many times in a game do you have 2 action cards neither give + actions. Now the dilemma which action do you play with I mean thier both good. Oh wait I still have a fur coat on my tavern mat. So this is what Iíll do Iíll play goons, Then I call the fur coat I get to draw another card and I get another action great now I get to play soothsayer too. So yeah you could waste it and play it like you would conspirator. So I guess it just depends what actions are being played with. But that was real point behind this card. And the fact that if an attack card was in the game you would save it for that.

It's very rarely more strategic to save it for later. Using it right away means that you just got a very powerful card effect; and that card is treated just like a normal, non-reserve card, so it won't miss extra shuffles or anything. You want to play that card every single turn. Perhaps if there are no villages in the game, then I could see wanting to save it so that you can play 2 Goons on the same turn or something. But that's about the only time I wouldn't always call this immediately.

The fact that you have the option to save it for later just makes it MORE powerful! So you are taking a card that is strictly better than Conspirator, AND strictly better than Poacher, and then adding on another extra bonus that makes it more flexible.

This card is basically a Grand Market without the +buy, but instead of +buy you have the flexibility of getting to use it as a future-village. As is, this card is too good even if it cost .

*Edit* It sort of sounds like you're saying "yeah, +1 card, +1 action, + is powerful, but you aren't always going to use this that way".... but the thing is, logically speaking, if you didn't use the card that way, it's because the way you used it was BETTER than that option! So the choices are to either use it as a card that's overpowered, OR use it as a card that's even more powerful than the overpowered card!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 11:31:30 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2018, 12:01:47 pm »
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There now you canít  play it like a conspirator at all.

And besides coin of the realm is even more powerful because it would let you play 3 goons in one turn.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 12:05:27 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #121 on: October 25, 2018, 12:07:41 pm »
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There now you canít  play it like a conspirator at all.
Now, this one would be called from the tavern mat, because they're is an on call function. Wine merchant and lumberjack however do not have an on call function, so they are just discarded. Also, you want a comma after turn, not a period.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #122 on: October 25, 2018, 12:40:44 pm »
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I will try to explain the Lumberjack thing visually later today. But I have a question: Do you want people to be able to discard Lumberjack from their Tavern Mat if they did buy no cards at all that turn?

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2018, 12:42:19 pm »
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There now you canít  play it like a conspirator at all.

And besides coin of the realm is even more powerful because it would let you play 3 goons in one turn.

Necropolis lets you play 2 Goon in one turn, but it's not powerful. The ability to use it as a village isn't what was making it powerful.

The new version is definitely weaker, but I'm pretty sure it's still a stronger version of Conspirator. The first one you play in a game is bad, but then every one you play after that can be seen as +1 card, +1 action, +, because you can call the previous one each time you play the next one. If there are villages around, you can play and call them in the same turn, so they aren't losing out on shuffles.

I think you're onto an interesting Conspirator variant here though... I don't quite get why the attack reaction is lumped in; it makes it extra wordy and the 2 effects really don't go with each other... you will still really want to call this for the effect; not save it in hopes if getting a bonus if attacked. I would suggest this:

Quote
Fur Coat - Action-Reserve -
+[2]
Put this on your tavern mat.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Directly after you finish playing an Action card (except this),
you may call this, for +1 Card +1 Action.

This might still be too strong; but at least you need to get multiple of them to really make them work.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #124 on: October 25, 2018, 01:40:17 pm »
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Well first of all the blizzard event was a nasty duration attack. And fur coat was the best defense for it. But then I had to change blizzard to make log cabin a little more useful. I might change fur coat so that it interacts with the blizzard event instead of attack cards. That means Iíll probably change the whole card again. And maybe retweak all 3 cards and repost them again.

Asper did lumberjack say gain cards. Sorry I meant buy cards. Iíll change that later.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2018, 01:42:14 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #125 on: October 25, 2018, 01:44:49 pm »
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Cause I like blizzard as an event instead of an attack duration.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #126 on: October 25, 2018, 02:38:01 pm »
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Well first of all the blizzard event was a nasty duration attack. And fur coat was the best defense for it. But then I had to change blizzard to make log cabin a little more useful. I might change fur coat so that it interacts with the blizzard event instead of attack cards. That means Iíll probably change the whole card again. And maybe retweak all 3 cards and repost them again.

Asper did lumberjack say gain cards. Sorry I meant buy cards. Iíll change that later.

It sounds like you're making some cards specifically to interact with other specific cards. I think the only way that works is if it's either a split-pile, or a non-supply card that can be gained by the other card. Otherwise, designs based on specific interactions will seem bad when looked at as an individual card (which is how most people are going to look at each card).
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #127 on: October 25, 2018, 05:28:40 pm »
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Yeah something like that. But if remember correctly nocturne had heirlooms.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #128 on: October 25, 2018, 07:40:27 pm »
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The Heirlooms were paired with Kingdom cards, so they always show up together so the effect wasn't dead (e.g. you can always trash Haunted Mirror because at the least Cemetery is there). Also, some Heirlooms and their Kingdom cards didn't even depend on each other to be useful (e.g. Tracker and Pouch).

Official Dominion cards strive to be viable in any random Kingdom. Reactions tend to be Kingdom-dependent: The bottom of Tunnel requires discarders, so Donald X. ensured the top was compelling enough for it to be bought, even in games where there was no combo. Throne Room would be a dud with no other Action cards, but this is reasonably unlikely.

You can also consider this anecdote from the Nocturne Secret History, about a card that was cut for varying too much based on the other cards around:
Quote
For a long time there was a Night attack that Cursed the other players if you had exactly 3 of anything in play. Early on it would probably be 3 Coppers, but it could be something else. Ö After some game where it seemed strong, I realized that we were endlessly seeing it in games with Heirlooms, and thus not 7 Coppers. We played some more games with no Heirlooms and it seemed obviously too strong. I tried a bunch of variations on it quickly and then killed it.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #129 on: October 26, 2018, 06:02:59 am »
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Asper did lumberjack say gain cards. Sorry I meant buy cards. Iíll change that later.

Yes, it currently says gained :)
I think both are fine. That's up to your preference. Bought cards are a bit easier to remember, but that's all.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #130 on: October 26, 2018, 09:07:34 pm »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #131 on: October 26, 2018, 11:01:54 pm »
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Now there is only 5 Fur coat and 5 Log Cabin. They are a split pile together. With fur coat on top.



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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #132 on: October 26, 2018, 11:09:56 pm »
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This was designed by a friend. So if you donít like and it needs to be changed cause itís too powerful or something. Just please ignore it. Itís not my place to change it. Iím only allowed to fix grammar like errors.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:11:59 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Neirai the Forgiven

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #133 on: October 26, 2018, 11:39:44 pm »
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This was designed by a friend. So if you don’t like and it needs to be changed cause it’s too powerful or something. Just please ignore it. It’s not my place to change it. I’m only allowed to fix grammar like errors.

"Discard an Estate and a Copper for +2 Cards, + $2. If you can't, gain a Copper." is more like Renaissance wording.
Oh yes, also: the Action text goes above the Victory text.

Okay, a review, too: Powerwise, the victory part is probably good. $5 normally gets you 3VP, so only getting 2VP normally, 4VP if you have 6-8 Estates in your deck, probably okay. 6VP if you have 9 Estates is pretty powerful, but then your opponents are letting you buy up a lot of Estates in a game where Snowman is a Kingdom, what were they thinking?

The value added by the Action is maybe harder to tell, however, +1 Buy gain a Copper is baaaaaaaaad, +1 Buy +2 Card +$2 is pretty good (around $5 itself) but not consistent. I think it's probably okay, maybe it should be $6.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2018, 11:44:17 pm by Neirai the Forgiven »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #134 on: October 26, 2018, 11:42:18 pm »
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So I have one more split pile. One more set of travelers. And one more lonely action. Which is my attack-reaction card. Unless I come up with more ideas that should complete my snowline expansion. So at least 8 differently named cards left.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #135 on: October 27, 2018, 02:03:01 am »
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If you look at Mill or Great Hall, the newest Log Cabin should really be worth 1 VP, not 2. At 2 itís way better than either of those.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #136 on: October 27, 2018, 08:48:44 am »
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I like a Crisp Day, but I think it's interesting enough on its own and doesn't really need to be paired with those other two cards.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #137 on: October 27, 2018, 10:15:40 pm »
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Yes but I needed it too because fur coat needs to be useful with a blizzard. Itís part of the theme. And I need something to keep blizzard in check. Itís also theme.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #138 on: October 29, 2018, 01:33:36 am »
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Thereís only 5 log cabins now. If you were playing a 4 player game only one player could have more than one. Also with blizzard in the game you will probably want to trash it for a better card. And if itís near end of game you might get yourself a duchy anyway. Nobles May have costed 6$ but itís the best official  action-victory card. Log cabin is 5$ and while the action is useful. I think we can all agree at least most of the time nobles will be better than log cabin.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #139 on: October 29, 2018, 02:30:26 am »
0










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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2018, 02:37:41 am »
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Why does Sell Sword give the option to discard from the top of your deck instead of your hand? Discarding cards from the top of your deck is generally a benefit to you; you'd always make that choice.

I don't understand the last part of Warden... what does it mean "for each different attack you revealed this to"? At the time you are revealing it, it will always be just to 1 specific attack. Does it mean attacks that it was revealed to earlier in the turn? Earlier in the game? There's no way to track that information.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #141 on: October 29, 2018, 10:51:46 am »
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First of all warden is not like champion. Warden will end up in your discard pile too. So you will draw cards for a little while. And you canít double up if you have 2 wardens because you still only get one card for each different attack. If wolves is played twice by the same player itís still the same attack. And if another player plays wolves itís still the same attack. Getting extra cards is still quite possible since you have to play 3 different attacks to get the warden in the first place.

Itís means that if a different attack attacks you before your next turn. You can keep drawing cards. If your playing in a 4 player game. Player 1 plays hedgeknight you reveal block the attack draw one card. Then he plays wolves block attack again draw another card. Player 2 plays sellsword block attack draw another card. Player 3 plays outlaw block attack draw another card player 3 plays outlaw again block attack. Nothing else happens itís the same attack.

Sellsword might be a weaker attack so what your only going to play it once. Hedgeknight and warden are so much better than sellsword anyway. Also discarding your top 3 cards isnít always the best option. What if your hand allowed you to draw some cards and get some extra actions and you decide to go with the second option and you end up discard a powerful attack you only have one of them and you havenít gotten to play it yet and then another of the 3 is a gold. Man oh man I knew I should of discarded that copper and silver from my hand instead. And then you play your turn and you end with 2 coppers and victory instead of what you could of gotten. The 2nd choice is still a gamble. Some like to risk it and some like to go with a sure thing.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 10:59:38 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #142 on: October 29, 2018, 11:07:49 am »
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The problem with Warden, like GendoIkari said, is that there is no way to track all those attacks, except in your head which can be a lot of things to remember and argue about in a game. It is a nice card, but has some issues. I do like the concept though, but you should try to think of a way to shine it up a bit, make it more game-friendly. Also, please put all the cards in the OP. It makes it so much easier to see all the cards. Finally, another thing about your cards. All your cards with a different main color, like victorys, durations, etc, have the whole card be that color, while official cards have the color only around the border. Are you using VioletCLM's generator here: https://shemitz.net/static/dominion3/?title=&description=&type=&credit=&price=&preview=&type2=&picture=&color0=0&color1=0&size=0? Because the problem is easily fixed by only putting the type in the first color box, and the second one should say Same, not the same thing as the first box.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #143 on: October 29, 2018, 11:32:33 am »
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Also, looking all the way back to Sled Dogs, that card still has a bunch of issues. To function as it currently does, here's a better way to word it.
+1 Card
+1 Action
Gain a non-Reserve Action card costing up to $4 to your Tavern mat. Turn your Journey token over (it starts face up). Then if it's face up, take a non-Reserve card from your Tavern mat to your hand.

There's really no good way to word the part where you take a card from the Tavern mat, so just work with whatever.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #144 on: October 29, 2018, 12:52:16 pm »
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I don't really think the issue with Warden is all that bad as you guys make it sound. It needs some rewording to make clear whether it's about different copies of attack cards, or about differently NAMED attack cards (for the first, two Torturers would count as two cards, the second wouldn't) but that's about it. Treasure Hunter certainly isn't better.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #145 on: October 29, 2018, 01:29:24 pm »
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I don't really think the issue with Warden is all that bad as you guys make it sound. It needs some rewording to make clear whether it's about different copies of attack cards, or about differently NAMED attack cards (for the first, two Torturers would count as two cards, the second wouldn't) but that's about it. Treasure Hunter certainly isn't better.

As worded, I genuinely don't know what the intention is:

-Draw a card for each attack that was played this turn that you reacted to with this specific copy of Warden
-Draw a card for each attack that was played this game that you reacted to with this specific copy of Warden
-Draw a card for each attack that you have reacted to this turn with a Warden
-Draw a card for each attack that you have reacted to this game with a Warden

Of all those options, #3 is the only one that is theoretically feasible due to tracking. That one is comparable to Treasure Hunter in terms of how much tracking is needed.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #146 on: October 29, 2018, 01:35:06 pm »
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Ok, looking through the explanation, I think I understand, but I'm still not certain. Perhaps what you want is something like this?

"When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it. If this is the first time you revealed a Warden to an attack with this name this turn, +1 card."

I think the only difference here is that it will work on each of your opponent's turns. I think it would be crazy to try and word it so that it doesn't work that way (unless you make it a Duration card that gets discarded when activated).

It's still seems like overly complex wording for a simple effect... I'm not sure the idea of trying to prevent it from working multiple times is worth it. Though of course you do have to have a way of preventing a player from infinitely revealing it to 1 attack.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #147 on: October 29, 2018, 02:39:33 pm »
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Ah, right, the tracking of different copies of Warden... I understood it as something like:

+1 Card per attack card you revealed a Warden to this turn.

But yes, of course you could technically reveal it multiple times and abuse the card that way. I forgot about this.

ClouduHieh, the rules of Dominion allow you to reveal any Reaction card multiple times to the same attack. It's a bit complicated to explain why, but nonetheless it's allowed. All the real Dominion cards take care that this doesn't make the game unfair: Some simply don't give you anything extra if you reveal it multiple times. Like Moat, because you are either protected from an attack or not, but you can't be protected multiple times... And some Reaction cards simply move themselves away from your hand, so you can only reveal them from your hand once.

The problem is, if Warden makes you draw cards when you reveal it, because the rules allow you to reveal it multiple times, you can use it to draw as many cards as you want.

Here is an idea:

When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If it is the first time you revealed a Warden to that card, it doesn't affect you, and +1 Card per Attack card the other player has in play.

Sadly,this is a lot of text... Another idea:

When another player plays an attack card, you may set this aside from your hand. If you do, until your next turn, when another player plays an attack card, it doesn't affect you and +1 Card. At the start of your next turn, put this in your hand.

Erm,that's even worse... Maybe a Duration card? This is more tricky than I thought.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #148 on: October 29, 2018, 09:00:20 pm »
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Okay the way it is sopose to work. And if you canít keep track or trust each other to keep track perfectly. Because no ones perfect. Write it down on a piece of paper.

Player 1 plays a wolves ( Your warden blocks it and draw a card.) now write down you drew a card for wolves. Player one plays wolves again. (Your warden blocks it) player 1 plays a hedgeknight ( your warden blocks it draw a card) now write down you drew a card for hedgeknight. Player 2 plays hedgeknight ( Your warden blocks it) player 3 plays avalanche ( Your warden blocks it and draw a card.) now write down you drew a card for avalanche. Player 3 plays wolves ( Your warden blocks it and wait letís see oh yes I already drew a card for wolves.) now itís my turn. Iíve got 3 extra cards this turn, yes a lot of attacks were played but there were only 3 differently named cards. So yes you are welcome to reveal warden as many times as you want, but your still limited to what you can actually get. And even if you had 2 wardens you would still only get one card for each differently named attack.

And with that said. Since 3 of the 5 travelers for this set are attack cards. You can at least get 3 cards on some occasions. And if thereís more attack cards you could get a lot of cards. Especially with knights. So go ahead reveal warden to wolves 500 times youíll still only get one card even if it was 500 wolves.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 09:19:19 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #149 on: October 29, 2018, 11:19:42 pm »
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Okay the way it is sopose to work. And if you canít keep track or trust each other to keep track perfectly. Because no ones perfect. Write it down on a piece of paper.

Player 1 plays a wolves ( Your warden blocks it and draw a card.) now write down you drew a card for wolves. Player one plays wolves again. (Your warden blocks it) player 1 plays a hedgeknight ( your warden blocks it draw a card) now write down you drew a card for hedgeknight. Player 2 plays hedgeknight ( Your warden blocks it) player 3 plays avalanche ( Your warden blocks it and draw a card.) now write down you drew a card for avalanche. Player 3 plays wolves ( Your warden blocks it and wait letís see oh yes I already drew a card for wolves.) now itís my turn. Iíve got 3 extra cards this turn, yes a lot of attacks were played but there were only 3 differently named cards. So yes you are welcome to reveal warden as many times as you want, but your still limited to what you can actually get. And even if you had 2 wardens you would still only get one card for each differently named attack.

And with that said. Since 3 of the 5 travelers for this set are attack cards. You can at least get 3 cards on some occasions. And if thereís more attack cards you could get a lot of cards. Especially with knights. So go ahead reveal warden to wolves 500 times youíll still only get one card even if it was 500 wolves.

The way you are describing it is not at all the way it is written though.... it says you draw a card for each differently named attack card, but you actually seem to want it to ever only draw one card each time. "For each" means "repeat this action as many times as the thing that comes after the for each". So if you revealed it to a second attack, you would draw 2 cards. If you revealed it to a third attack, you would draw 3 cards.

From your description, this is the wording you would want:

"When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it. If this is the first time this game that you have revealed a Warden in response to an attack with this same name, +1 Card."

This makes it clear that you can only get at most +1 Card when you reveal it. However, I really don't understand the point of limiting it to only work the very first time. It DOES need to be limited to stop you from revealing it repeatedly when an attack is played. But why should the card draw suddenly stop working once a player has played a particular attack before? I just don't get that part at all... this is a final-stage Traveler card; the reaction should be powerful.

Why not just limit it to 1 card per turn rather than 1 card per game? That solves the tracking issue, as well as makes it a better card. Keep in mind that writing down notes isn't actually allowed in Dominion... you would need to provide some sort of token system to track which attacks it has worked with so far. This version seems reasonable to me:

"When another player plays an Attack card, you may first reveal this from your hand, to be unaffected by it. If this is the first time this turn that you have revealed a Warden in response to an attack with this same name, +1 Card."

Finally, it should not have the Traveller type; see Champion and Teacher.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 11:23:19 pm by GendoIkari »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #150 on: October 30, 2018, 12:44:53 am »
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Where does it say that in my rule book?
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #151 on: October 30, 2018, 12:47:44 am »
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Well I wonít be changing my traveler cards anymore. If you donít like it just ignore it. Iím tired of changing my cards. So Iíll only change the ones I havenít shown yet. Iím happy with what my cards are like. And in the end (unless your making a profit off of it which Iím obviously not) my happiness is all that counts. If you canít figure out how my cards work because they arenít worded perfectly. Thatís your problem not mine. Or change them for yourselves. If I keep changing my cards for you guys then there no longer my ideas. Then itís not really my fan based expansion itís someone elseís. Why do you guys think Donald doesnít like adding fan based expansions to official expansions. Because itís not the same! And I feel the same way!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 12:53:59 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #152 on: October 30, 2018, 03:13:01 am »
+2

Well I wonít be changing my traveler cards anymore. If you donít like it just ignore it. Iím tired of changing my cards. So Iíll only change the ones I havenít shown yet. Iím happy with what my cards are like. And in the end (unless your making a profit off of it which Iím obviously not) my happiness is all that counts. If you canít figure out how my cards work because they arenít worded perfectly. Thatís your problem not mine. Or change them for yourselves. If I keep changing my cards for you guys then there no longer my ideas. Then itís not really my fan based expansion itís someone elseís. Why do you guys think Donald doesnít like adding fan based expansions to official expansions. Because itís not the same! And I feel the same way!
Which is fine and all, but then maybe don't post them in a forum whose main purpose is to criticise and discuss each other's fan cards.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #153 on: October 30, 2018, 10:42:08 am »
+1

Well I wonít be changing my traveler cards anymore. If you donít like it just ignore it. Iím tired of changing my cards. So Iíll only change the ones I havenít shown yet. Iím happy with what my cards are like. And in the end (unless your making a profit off of it which Iím obviously not) my happiness is all that counts. If you canít figure out how my cards work because they arenít worded perfectly. Thatís your problem not mine. Or change them for yourselves. If I keep changing my cards for you guys then there no longer my ideas. Then itís not really my fan based expansion itís someone elseís. Why do you guys think Donald doesnít like adding fan based expansions to official expansions. Because itís not the same! And I feel the same way!
It's called constructive criticism. We are trying to make your cards the best that they can be. Even people like Asper don't make perfect cards the first time. I don't think so, anyway  :). Seriously though, we're just trying to help.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #154 on: October 30, 2018, 10:45:03 am »
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Where does it say that in my rule book?

Where does it say what? Is this about the no note-taking comment? There have been several discussions on this forum and on BGG about this issue, and it has been made clear that the rule book lists the things that you are allowed to do, it doesn't list every possible thing that you aren't allowed to do. Nothing in the rulebook says that you are allowed to take notes, so you aren't. If you play Dominion with notes, that's fine so long as everyone you are playing with knows about it and agrees; at that point you are just playing a minor variant.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #155 on: October 30, 2018, 10:53:58 am »
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Well I wonít be changing my traveler cards anymore. If you donít like it just ignore it. Iím tired of changing my cards. So Iíll only change the ones I havenít shown yet. Iím happy with what my cards are like. And in the end (unless your making a profit off of it which Iím obviously not) my happiness is all that counts. If you canít figure out how my cards work because they arenít worded perfectly. Thatís your problem not mine. Or change them for yourselves. If I keep changing my cards for you guys then there no longer my ideas. Then itís not really my fan based expansion itís someone elseís. Why do you guys think Donald doesnít like adding fan based expansions to official expansions. Because itís not the same! And I feel the same way!

This is excessively hostile. People are only trying to help here. Good card design takes a LOT of work. Going through multiple iterations is to be expected. Donald doesn't just make a card and then keep it exactly the same.

If making multiple edits is too much work; then it might be good to not start with a version that's already saved into an image. Start with text-only ideas; that way things like wording can be worked out before you have spent too much time trying to make images for the cards.

If you only want to make cards for you, and not to be discussed and shared and critiqued and such, then that's fine... no one is stopping you. But in general people who post their ideas on this forum are doing so in order to seek help improving those ideas.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #156 on: October 30, 2018, 06:20:58 pm »
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The only reason I posted them on here was for fun. But if I get too much criticism then itís not fun. I donít mind changing them a little bit. Well I only have a few more to show any way. Then shortly after that Iíll take some time away from the forum. I only wanted to share my ideas thatís it. You guys donít have to like them. If you donít just ignore them. Because in my eyes they are fine the way they are. Iím not trying to make the cards as official as possible.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #157 on: October 30, 2018, 06:22:42 pm »
0

« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 06:36:01 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #158 on: October 30, 2018, 06:30:38 pm »
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This one doesnít let you flip the journey token over, so you may still need cliff. However if there other actions that flip the journey token over there will definitely be more strategy involved.
Iíve re-modified these.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:49:19 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #159 on: October 30, 2018, 07:31:07 pm »
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I really like Climbing Gear! It's an interesting and unique Herald/Vassal variant. The +2 Actions, +$2 looks too strong, but I get you probably want Cliff to have a village.

Yeti is similar to Minion, but different in some key ways that keeps me intrigued to see how it plays. (Also, remember to buy your Victory cards before trying to buy an Expedition.)

We're here if you want any other feedback about the designs, after you take some time. Hope you enjoy playing with these at home!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 10:47:41 pm by crlundy »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #160 on: October 30, 2018, 08:14:27 pm »
+1

Cliff is incredibly weak. Compare Moat: It gives +2 cards without the discarding, along with complete protection from attacks, and it's only $2. Cliff might be balanced at $1, but even then it's hard to think of a situation in which you'd want it.

Climbing Gear is too strong. Again, compare Festival: It also gives +2 Actions and +$2, but gives +Buy instead of all of the stuff this gives. Surely this stuff is much more powerful than +Buy.

If I keep changing my cards for you guys then there no longer my ideas. Then itís not really my fan based expansion itís someone elseís. Why do you guys think Donald doesnít like adding fan based expansions to official expansions. Because itís not the same! And I feel the same way!

This isn't the right way to look at it. Think of it this way: the ideas are yours, we're just helping you make them work. If an idea is solid it will still be recognizable as yours even after changes to balance it. Donald doesn't publish fan cards because the ideas aren't his, but if you read the Secret Histories of the expansions you'll see how much his own cards were criticized and changed by others before they were printed.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #161 on: November 13, 2018, 12:15:14 am »
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New cards for snowline!







Now these two are a split pile.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 12:26:23 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #162 on: November 13, 2018, 12:18:37 am »
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My card ideas are no longer just a pipe dream. Iíve finally created some cards in real life. But boy was it expensive.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #163 on: November 13, 2018, 12:54:59 am »
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Eventually Iíll try to modify the beginning part of the thread to have all the current cards. However Iíll probably only do a few at a time.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #164 on: November 13, 2018, 07:44:43 am »
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New cards for snowline!





These look pretty fun.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #165 on: November 13, 2018, 10:16:08 am »
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Is Crossbow supposed to go to your Tavern mat when you play it? It doesn't say to put it on your Tavern mat.

It's very rare that you would be willing to trash a card costing or more to make your opponents discard. A combination with Fortress is about the only thing I can think of in fact. And having to discard 3 cards to call it is a huge penalty; given that the card costs , I don't see what's wrong with just letting you call it normally.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #166 on: November 13, 2018, 11:18:07 am »
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Is Crossbow supposed to go to your Tavern mat when you play it? It doesn't say to put it on your Tavern mat.

It's very rare that you would be willing to trash a card costing or more to make your opponents discard. A combination with Fortress is about the only thing I can think of in fact. And having to discard 3 cards to call it is a huge penalty; given that the card costs , I don't see what's wrong with just letting you call it normally.
I think what he was basing it off of was Catapult. The key thing to realize here that makes this compare unfavorably to Catapult is that the other half of the Catapult pile is Rocks, which is a prime target for Catapult since it triggers both of the attacks, and gains you a Silver when you trash Rocks. I do see the relationship between Elk Mount and Crossbow, in that you call them both at the same time and draw two cards, then discard three cards. Playtesting would be the best way to get a measure of the strength of these cards, if you already have playtested them a few times then I'm sure they work.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #167 on: November 13, 2018, 12:30:44 pm »
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Now if you use your crossbow to trash bolts, you get to attack, and then you get to choose your reward. If used crossbow to trash a duchy you would get both too. With bolts you get to choose between another card costing up to 5$ or an elk mount.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #168 on: November 13, 2018, 01:18:35 pm »
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Now if you use your crossbow to trash bolts, you get to attack, and then you get to choose your reward. If used crossbow to trash a duchy you would get both too. With bolts you get to choose between another card costing up to 5$ or an elk mount.
That should work very well at first glance.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #169 on: November 13, 2018, 05:36:11 pm »
+1

« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 10:44:15 pm by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #170 on: November 13, 2018, 09:20:46 pm »
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This card is very strong. It seems balanced when it's the only trasher, or if there's another weak trasher, but in a game with say, Chapel, Steward, or another multi-card trasher, it seems like it could get really crazy.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #171 on: November 13, 2018, 09:36:02 pm »
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Indeed, just look at it compared to Priest. Worth pointing out that it doesn't only work when you trash a card, but also when your opponent trashes any; which means that when you play this, your opponent has to choose whether or not trashing cards on his turn is actually worth it. If it were "for the rest of this turn", like Priest, then it might be ok, though it would be maybe too similar to Priest.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #172 on: November 14, 2018, 03:08:38 am »
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It's too strong, but I really like the general idea of Vigiles.

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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #173 on: November 14, 2018, 10:47:03 pm »
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Howís my vigiles 3.0 version. I made it so it only works if another player during thier turn, trashes a treasure from thier hand. No other cards affect it and if treasure was trashed via and attack like giant it still wouldnít activate. And I also changed it to gain a silver.
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Re: Snowline fan-based expansion.
« Reply #174 on: November 15, 2018, 11:49:47 pm »
+1

Iíve started posting my snowline cards at the start of the thread.

Iíve got about half of them in the first post.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2018, 12:33:13 am by ClouduHieh »
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