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Author Topic: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!  (Read 6244 times)

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mubiks1

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Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« on: March 19, 2018, 07:40:58 pm »
+19

After months of anticipation, we just received our brand-new Guilds and Cornucopia box! We're having a great time playing with cards that we've only played on Shuffle iT until today! Love the coin tokens -- they make for some big turns.

One interesting change is the "Coffers" term:



Going back to playing our awesome new cards!
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GendoIkari

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 07:54:47 pm »
+11

I have no idea how to feel about this. It seems like a really big and arbitrary change. Even though I have to keep reminding myself that thereís no actual rules change here. Very curious to learn why this was done though... was ďtake a coin tokenĒ not clear enough? (Given that Pirate Ship wording was fixed). And another mat seems unnecessary. Empires realized that Prosperity never needed a mat to add VP tokens to. But now Guilds is going in the opposite direction; adding a new mat where there wasnít one before?

I guess a lot of this is just me complaining about change. Guilds was fine as it was.

Oh, and welcome to the forum!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 08:01:49 pm by GendoIkari »
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 08:02:06 pm »
+4

I'm all in favor of shorthand keywords for common abilities, but this word choice feels awkward. And now I'm getting that strange thing where the word sounds funny and completely foreign.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 08:16:45 pm »
0

Oh, glad this is public now, I can update my fan cards this wording if I ever get around to it.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2018, 08:33:54 pm »
0

Oh, glad this is public now, I can update my fan cards this wording if I ever get around to it.

There was playtesting for second edition specifically or something?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2018, 09:23:58 pm »
+2

Oh, glad this is public now, I can update my fan cards this wording if I ever get around to it.

There was playtesting for second edition specifically or something?

No, I just mentioned it to ThetaSigma once while we were exchanging card templates. As the guy who mocks up hundreds of fan cards, I thought he might find it interesting.
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crj

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 11:10:55 pm »
+2

I'm all in favor of shorthand keywords for common abilities, but this word choice feels awkward.
Yeah. Especially "+1 Coffers" rather than "+1 Coffer", which feels outright illiterate. )-8
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Erick648

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 12:39:36 am »
0

I guess this means we won't get another expansion with Coin tokens, which I'd hoped was a possibility after they brought back Victory tokens in Empires.  There'd be no way to word the cards that would be intelligible to both people who had First Edition Guilds and didn't know about Second Edition and people who had Second Edition Guilds and didn't know about First Edition (they could include something in the rulebook explaining that Coin tokens are now Coffers, but it would still be awkward).
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popsofctown

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 01:03:41 am »
0

That's ok, coin tokens is not the ripest design space.
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dz

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 01:19:57 am »
0

I think I remember Donald saying that Young Witch's bane will be marked with a new token instead. Is that in 2E now?

Also is the Cornucopia and Guilds rulebook merged together or split into 2?
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Donald X.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 04:03:15 am »
+3

I think I remember Donald saying that Young Witch's bane will be marked with a new token instead. Is that in 2E now?

Also is the Cornucopia and Guilds rulebook merged together or split into 2?
It's one rulebook (with everything mixed together), and yes there's a Bane card.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 06:18:07 am »
0

Having a shorthand term for taking a coin token seems like a good idea, but 'coffers' sounds kinda weird. I guess we'll have to get used to it.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 10:05:35 am »
0

Oh, glad this is public now, I can update my fan cards this wording if I ever get around to it.
There was playtesting for second edition specifically or something?
No, I just mentioned it to ThetaSigma once while we were exchanging card templates. As the guy who mocks up hundreds of fan cards, I thought he might find it interesting.

And it's been bugging me since: You know your cards have a problem that you need to change, but you can't change it now, and you don't want to go back and change it.
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Fuu

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 10:17:13 am »
0

Not sure how I feel about "coffers". It's probably a better design in the sense that you can put it in bold type as a basic card effect. However I wonder why it was necessary to give it a name distinct to "coin token" - I presume "+1 Coin Token" must have been tried but had some problem.

The coffers mat also looks a bit like it might camouflage the coin tokens put there.

Took a quick look online and I can see that some places have a small number of these for purchase. Looking forward to hopefully picking one up sometime soon :)
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LastFootnote

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 11:00:10 am »
+1

Oh, glad this is public now, I can update my fan cards this wording if I ever get around to it.
There was playtesting for second edition specifically or something?
No, I just mentioned it to ThetaSigma once while we were exchanging card templates. As the guy who mocks up hundreds of fan cards, I thought he might find it interesting.

And it's been bugging me since: You know your cards have a problem that you need to change, but you can't change it now, and you don't want to go back and change it.

Apologies, then. And apologies to Donald X. for letting it slip.
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Cuzz

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 12:10:42 pm »
0

yeesh
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GendoIkari

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 12:27:39 pm »
0

Are the tokens themselves in 2E the same?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 01:27:54 pm »
0

Are the tokens themselves in 2E the same?

I believe so.
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mubiks1

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 01:58:32 pm »
+16

A few comments and photos...

I like the coffers mat. But I like mats in general. Maybe that's because we play on a rug with a lot of texture, and it would be easy to lose coin or victory tokens otherwise. I'd use a debt mat if there was one. If I was playing at a table, I might not use mats at all. But I have kids. They like playing on the floor.

The coin tokens are shiny, so camouflage hasn't been a problem for us:


As for the word "coffers," maybe it's awkward but my five-year-old (who can barely read but has every card from every expansion memorized based on the artwork) loves it. He instituted the house rule "when you get a coffers, cough". Play butcher; cough twice.

Here's the bane card, which I didn't realize was new since I've never seen the original Guilds & Cornucopia (except on Shuffle iT):


Cover of the new rule book:


Contents:
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chipperMDW

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 04:38:39 pm »
0

Does 2E Cornucopia/Guilds have recommended kingdoms with Alchemy? If so, are they effectively subdivided into Alchemy/Cornucopia and Alchemy/Guilds kingdoms (the way 2E Prosperity and Seaside did it)? And does it have recommended kingdoms using Cornucopia/Guilds alone? If so, do they have 5 cards each from Cornucopia and Guilds? Are there any all-Cornucopia or all-Guilds recommended kingdoms?

If we got A/C, A/G, and C/G, then I think we would at last have recommended kingdoms for all current pairings! And if we didn't get any all-Cornucopia or all-Guilds sets, that means we probably aren't getting an all-Alchemy kingdom (since those are/were all small sets), which would mean we may also have completed the set of recommended kingdoms for the currently released sets!
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Donald X.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2018, 05:08:47 pm »
+3

Not sure how I feel about "coffers". It's probably a better design in the sense that you can put it in bold type as a basic card effect. However I wonder why it was necessary to give it a name distinct to "coin token" - I presume "+1 Coin Token" must have been tried but had some problem.
Coin tokens are used in other ways (Pirate Ship, Trade Route).
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Donald X.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2018, 05:14:18 pm »
+2

Does 2E Cornucopia/Guilds have recommended kingdoms with Alchemy? If so, are they effectively subdivided into Alchemy/Cornucopia and Alchemy/Guilds kingdoms (the way 2E Prosperity and Seaside did it)? And does it have recommended kingdoms using Cornucopia/Guilds alone? If so, do they have 5 cards each from Cornucopia and Guilds? Are there any all-Cornucopia or all-Guilds recommended kingdoms?

If we got A/C, A/G, and C/G, then I think we would at last have recommended kingdoms for all current pairings! And if we didn't get any all-Cornucopia or all-Guilds sets, that means we probably aren't getting an all-Alchemy kingdom (since those are/were all small sets), which would mean we may also have completed the set of recommended kingdoms for the currently released sets!
These are all the relevant sets:

Guilds & Cornucopia:
Misfortune: Advisor, Candlestick Maker, Doctor, Fairgrounds, Farming Village, Fortune Teller, Horse Traders, Jester, Soothsayer, Taxman
Baking Contest: Baker, Farming Village, Harvest, Herald, Journeyman, Masterpiece, Menagerie, Remake, Stonemason, Tournament

Guilds / Cornucopia & Alchemy:
Clown College: Jester, Remake, Harvest, Horse Traders, Menagerie ē University, Golem, Alchemist, Philosopher's Stone, Familiar
Wine & Dine: Young Witch, Hamlet, Hunting Party, Fairgrounds, Horn of Plenty ē Apprentice, Scrying Pool, Apothecary, Transmute, Vineyard ē Bane: Herbalist
Illuminati: Butcher, Herald, Masterpiece, Merchant Guild, Stonemason ē Apprentice, Golem, Philosopher's Stone, Scrying Pool, University
Tonics & Toxins: Baker, Candlestick Maker, Doctor, Plaza, Soothsayer ē Alchemist, Familiar, Herbalist, Transmute, Vineyard

There is no all-Alchemy kingdom. If you want one, I think, everything but Possession and Scrying Pool.
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ObtusePunubiris

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2018, 05:31:42 pm »
+5

What timing.  This past Saturday, after years of playing this game mind you, my wife played a Candlestick Maker, took her coin token, and asked where her coin token mat was.  She was very upset when I told here there wasn't one.  Now, when I needlessly buy the 2E version because I want all the new shiny, I can say I was just trying to make her happy.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2018, 06:22:12 pm »
0

How does the bane card work? Is it larger than a card, so that the pile sits on it, and you can see the word ďbaneĒ on each side?
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Donald X.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2018, 06:46:47 pm »
+4

How does the bane card work? Is it larger than a card, so that the pile sits on it, and you can see the word ďbaneĒ on each side?
No, you just turn it sideways and put it under the pile, and "Bane" sticks out on both sides.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 08:45:32 pm »
+1

How does the bane card work? Is it larger than a card, so that the pile sits on it, and you can see the word ďbaneĒ on each side?
No, you just turn it sideways and put it under the pile, and "Bane" sticks out on both sides.

Iím pretty sure that was my idea (itís what I do with the Young Witch randomizer now), but Iím like 0 for 2 on remembering stuff today.
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crj

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 09:15:19 pm »
0

Or you align it the same direction as the pile and leave it sticking out the top. Which I suspect would work better with the kind of card layouts we seem to adopt.
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werothegreat

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2018, 12:01:41 am »
+15

Now I need to update the wiki...
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2018, 01:17:03 am »
+13

Now I need to update the wiki...

Contrary to popular belief, I [...] run the wiki all on my own.
:P

Seriously though, have a good time doing so. Your work on the wiki is greatly appreciated, and I think I speak for more than just myself when I say this.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2018, 09:28:15 am »
+3

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2018, 10:37:46 am »
+1

this change doesn't affect me at all.  I only play with my own 1st edition set.  Unless...
Is there any more design space for coffers/coins?  Like enough for it to be used again in a future set?

It's one of the blandest mechanics in the game, but it plays absurdly well.  There are not that many mechanics in the game where you think "i want that 4$ more than that 3$" and end up buying the 3$ anyways.  coffers in a game mean there are more meaningful and interesting decisions.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2018, 11:50:07 am »
0

Coffers seems like.. perfectly correct for this.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2018, 11:56:28 am »
+1

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

I believe so, yes.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2018, 01:22:11 pm »
+10

This is the first time I'd noticed that Donald made jokes about nose-stealing in two separate expansion descriptions.  It seems fitting they'd end up in the same box.

I like the name Coffer(s) for the token mat, but I don't like +1 Coffers on the card.  Possibly I don't like the double-plural?  If Baker gives me +1 Coffers, Butcher should give +2 Cofferses.  Cofferss?  Covfefes?
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2018, 01:27:11 pm »
0

This is the first time I'd noticed that Donald made jokes about nose-stealing in two separate expansion descriptions.  It seems fitting they'd end up in the same box.

I like the name Coffer(s) for the token mat, but I don't like +1 Coffers on the card.  Possibly I don't like the double-plural?  If Baker gives me +1 Coffers, Butcher should give +2 Cofferses.  Cofferss?  Covfefes?

The "Coffers" are not the coin tokens. So, it's more like the coffers gain +2 in my head, or "+1 (to the) Coffers".
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 01:30:49 pm »
+5

For me, "+1 to Coffers", or maybe even "+ to Coffers" would have been fine. "+1 Coffers" is icky.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 01:48:25 pm »
+8

For me, "+1 to Coffers", or maybe even "+ to Coffers" would have been fine. "+1 Coffers" is icky.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2018, 06:46:32 pm »
0

For me, "+1 to Coffers", or maybe even "+ to Coffers" would have been fine. "+1 Coffers" is icky.

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!

Well, I mean, on many levels...
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Chase Adolphson

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #38 on: March 22, 2018, 07:23:19 pm »
+1

A few comments and photos...

I like the coffers mat. But I like mats in general. Maybe that's because we play on a rug with a lot of texture, and it would be easy to lose coin or victory tokens otherwise. I'd use a debt mat if there was one. If I was playing at a table, I might not use mats at all. But I have kids. They like playing on the floor.

The coin tokens are shiny, so camouflage hasn't been a problem for us:


As for the word "coffers," maybe it's awkward but my five-year-old (who can barely read but has every card from every expansion memorized based on the artwork) loves it. He instituted the house rule "when you get a coffers, cough". Play butcher; cough twice.

Here's the bane card, which I didn't realize was new since I've never seen the original Guilds & Cornucopia (except on Shuffle iT):


Cover of the new rule book:


Contents:



Your five year old plays dominion?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Wow he's smart!
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2018, 11:34:58 pm »
0

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #40 on: March 23, 2018, 12:38:48 am »
+4

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.

Nay, as of now, it is the Posessee, not the Possessor who gains the coin tokens, or any non-debt token for that matter.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #41 on: March 23, 2018, 12:58:07 am »
0

Apart from the "Coffers" thing, are there other changes to the card texts compared to the 2nd edition versions we have seen before (which has been online)?

I see that the rulebook is still not online: http://riograndegames.com/Game/1293-Dominion-Cornucopia-amp-Guilds

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #42 on: March 23, 2018, 01:27:20 am »
+1

I always thought they should of had a token for young witches bane. A bane token. About a year ago I had to throw out my young witch cards and a few others from dominion. Because my step father made me. But I didnít want to lose the mechanics of some of my favorite cards. So I used the blank cards to replace them with cards that didnít bother him. So I replaced young witch with crocodile. And what are crocodiles afraid of. Hippos! So I found an eraser with the picture of hippo on it. Most of my friends donít care either way about young witch. But they definitely loved the hippo token for the game. It made the game easier thatís for sure. Also are they ever going to do a seaside 2nd edition. Lookout, and Seahag have no real benefit. And lookout can destroy your deck at the end of the game. One time I drew 2 duchies and province with lookout and it was online when it happened.talk about bad luck! And cutpurse is a pretty weak attack card too. And thereís not many ways to trash cards in seaside. If you want a card to trash cards salvager is the only really good one. Navigator and explorer are disappointing too. And pearl diver isnít much better than those. So thereís at least 5 cards they should replace or least tweak a little. Lookout should let you draw a card also, seahag should at least give you a couple of treasure, cutpurse should make them discard a treasure instead of a copper. For a hand when they only have silvers and golds. Navigator should let you choose (like cartographer). Explorer should cost 4 instead of 5. Cause itís always the last card you would buy for 5 money. And pearl diver should let you draw that card after you look at the bottom at least. No one seems to buy pearl diver at least not right away, when native village, lighthouse and embargo are in the game. Even haven is bought more often.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #43 on: March 23, 2018, 01:36:09 am »
+2

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #44 on: March 23, 2018, 07:55:49 am »
+4

I always thought they should of had a token for young witches bane. A bane token. About a year ago I had to throw out my young witch cards and a few others from dominion. Because my step father made me. But I didnít want to lose the mechanics of some of my favorite cards. So I used the blank cards to replace them with cards that didnít bother him. So I replaced young witch with crocodile. And what are crocodiles afraid of. Hippos! So I found an eraser with the picture of hippo on it. Most of my friends donít care either way about young witch. But they definitely loved the hippo token for the game. It made the game easier thatís for sure. Also are they ever going to do a seaside 2nd edition. Lookout, and Seahag have no real benefit. And lookout can destroy your deck at the end of the game. One time I drew 2 duchies and province with lookout and it was online when it happened.talk about bad luck! And cutpurse is a pretty weak attack card too. And thereís not many ways to trash cards in seaside. If you want a card to trash cards salvager is the only really good one. Navigator and explorer are disappointing too. And pearl diver isnít much better than those. So thereís at least 5 cards they should replace or least tweak a little. Lookout should let you draw a card also, seahag should at least give you a couple of treasure, cutpurse should make them discard a treasure instead of a copper. For a hand when they only have silvers and golds. Navigator should let you choose (like cartographer). Explorer should cost 4 instead of 5. Cause itís always the last card you would buy for 5 money. And pearl diver should let you draw that card after you look at the bottom at least. No one seems to buy pearl diver at least not right away, when native village, lighthouse and embargo are in the game. Even haven is bought more often.

First off I'm sorry to hear about Young Witch. I also grew up in a fairly religious-fundamentalist kind of situation, and have horrible memories of the implications of constantly-changing and arbitrary decisions regarding what books, TV shows, films, and games I was allowed. Rabbits shooting Turtles = fine, but Robots kicking Robots = evil - Harry Potter being fine up until the release of Order of the Phoenix and then having to literally burn the previous four books - etc etc etc. It's shit.

But mainly I wanted to reply to you about Seaside. Seaside has actually got a 2nd edition, but the changes are pretty minor, and mostly cosmetic. Outpost is slightly different but I think that's the only gameplay change (and the change only matters in very few situations). Seaside is one of my favourite expansions, if not outright my favourite, and I feel the need to defend a couple of cards from your ire and encourage you to experiment with them more. You're right that Navigator and Explorer are generally weak. They're both cards that are strong in money-based decks, and those are generally the weaker choice compared with engine decks unless the engine available is very poor. They both combo well with Hunting Party, and Navigator can occasionally be useful in a Duke strategy maybe, but that's about it. But hey, some cards are more limited in their use than others. I've certainly used both of these cards well in the past, it's just not common. Pearl Diver is also obviously weak, but it's a $2 cantrip, so it' can't be that strong or any board with +buy will see it massively rushed. Cutpurse is odd - it's overpowered in 4P and mostly underpowered in 2P, but it's not awful. But as for Lookout and Sea Hag, I think you're really missing something, as these two cards are very strong. Sea Hag used to be considered one of the premium $4 cards in the game. It has become less powerful as later sets have given more and more ways to deal with curses, but in plenty of boards it is still an absolute must-buy. Lookout is even more impressive relative to price, in my opinion. If you look at the Qvist card rankings, Lookout is always right up there among the absolute best $3 cards such as Masquarade, Ambassador, and Steward. I rank it even higher than the community in general. It's just a fiddly card to play with and you absolutely should not be using it in the late-game, as you point out. But what use are most trashers in the late-game? Lookout has the very rare quality of being a powerful deck-thinner and giving decent odds of a T3/4 $5 buy (this is because it is a sifter/cycler as well as a trasher - that discard is almost as important as the trash). Often you have to weigh up the benefits of upping your odds of being able to get a powerful $5 early vs being able to thin down your deck (unless you open 5/2, when naturally lookout is not really going to be attractive anyway). If that power 5 is either a junker such as Mountebank or Witch, or a power trasher like Sentry, Junk Dealer, or Upgrade, then the deal is even sweeter. But even if it's just a regulation power 5, Lookout is a supreme opening buy and I'd often even take it over Chapel. I think the only reason people hate lookout so much is that they just can't seem to stop themselves playing it long into the mid-game or even late-game, and then it's obviously horrible. Just treat it like a late-game Chapel - as a dead card. If you can get rid of it, so much the better, but if you can't, then one dead card is better than ten! Keep on buying lookout - just restrain yourself from playing it late-game. Once you've opened Lookout/Militia or even Lookout/Cutpurse or Lookout/Navigator a few times and been able to thin by one card and buy a Mountebank by the T5 shuffle once or twice, you'll probably be more amenable to it.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #45 on: March 23, 2018, 08:05:44 am »
0

First off I'm sorry to hear about Young Witch. I also grew up in a fairly religious-fundamentalist kind of situation, and have horrible memories of the implications of constantly-changing and arbitrary decisions regarding what books, TV shows, films, and games I was allowed. Rabbits shooting Turtles = fine, but Robots kicking Robots = evil - Harry Potter being fine up until the release of Order of the Phoenix and then having to literally burn the previous four books - etc etc etc. It's shit.

While I cannot empathise in the same way because I have not been subjected to that kind of environment, I must admit that the creative circumvention brought a smile to my face. To me, it sounds like the curses Hergť came up with for Cptn. Haddock since most of the more regular curses were off limits in the Christian youth magazine he published in.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #46 on: March 23, 2018, 08:10:42 am »
0

Yeah, Lookout is legitimately like a 85th percentile card.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #47 on: March 23, 2018, 12:46:14 pm »
0

So, I "get" a coin token when I play a Baker while I am possessed, right? Rule changed AGAIN?

Not "again".  This is consistent with the second edition wording of Possession that also tells you to gain all tokens the Possessed player would gain.

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .

Says who? Possession explicitly says you gain any tokens they would gain. "+Coffers" means gain a token. Which means if you are Possessed, and play Baker, the Possessor gets the token.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #48 on: March 23, 2018, 12:52:31 pm »
+1

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .

Not exactly, the Possessor also gets VP tokens, and (horribly) the -$1 token.

Here's the timeline, assuming that you would always play with the newest versions of everything:

* Possessor gets no tokens.

* Empires is released, with Possession errata in the rulebook. Possessor gets Debt tokens, Coin tokens and the -$1 token. Possessor doesn't get Pirate Ship tokens, based on the way Pirate Ship works as explained in the Seaside rulebook (later corrected in the 2nd edition card text).

* Prosperity 2nd edition is released, with changed rules about VP tokens. Possessor now gets VP tokens, Debt tokens, Coin tokens and the -$1 token.

* Guilds 2nd edition is released, with changed rules about Coin tokens. Possessor now gets VP tokens, Debt tokens and the -$1 token.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #49 on: March 23, 2018, 12:57:28 pm »
0

Says who? Possession explicitly says you gain any tokens they would gain. "+Coffers" means gain a token. Which means if you are Possessed, and play Baker, the Possessor gets the token.

Possession does say "gain", but according to Donald, the Possessor only gets tokens the player would take, and this doesn't include tokens the player would put on or add to mats. Therefore no Pirate Ship tokens and no player tokens from Adventures (except the -$1 token). And now, no Coin tokens. If this has been omitted from the wiki, I suggest it's added.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 12:59:10 pm by Jeebus »
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #50 on: March 23, 2018, 01:02:33 pm »
+1

Says who? Possession explicitly says you gain any tokens they would gain. "+Coffers" means gain a token. Which means if you are Possessed, and play Baker, the Possessor gets the token.

Possession does say "gain", but according to Donald, the Possessor only gets tokens the player would take, and this doesn't include tokens the player would put on or add to mats. Therefore no Pirate Ship tokens and no player tokens from Adventures (except the -$1 token). And now, no Coin tokens. If this has been omitted from the wiki, I suggest it's added.

Aha.  That's an interesting distinction.  Even though VP tokens in Prosperity get put on mats.  Is this why Empires didn't have any of those?
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #51 on: March 23, 2018, 01:03:50 pm »
+2

Link to Donald X.'s post about the upcoming change to Possession, for reference:

Can you discuss the rationale for the change from "coin tokens" to the "Coffers" mat in the second edition of Guilds? http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18379.msg751151#msg751151

One potential benefit is to reduce the risk of confusion given that Pirate Ship, Trade Route, and Guilds cards use the same tokens.
It made sense to have a mat. It lets you put the rule for how they work right on the mat. It keeps the tokens distinct from ones used for Pirate Ship, or from unused tokens waiting to be used.

I had "Add a token to your Coffers." Well "+1 Coffers" is way shorter. And familiar, people get it immediately. It gets to go with the other +'s. It looks nice on the cards.

As I mentioned in Discord, there is another change coming that you won't see until Alchemy, which is, Possession is now going to call out the Debt token specifically - you get the cards they would get and the Debt tokens they would get. It will have the symbol on the card, weird though that is.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #52 on: March 23, 2018, 01:06:56 pm »
0

Link to Donald X.'s post about the upcoming change to Possession, for reference:

Can you discuss the rationale for the change from "coin tokens" to the "Coffers" mat in the second edition of Guilds? http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18379.msg751151#msg751151

One potential benefit is to reduce the risk of confusion given that Pirate Ship, Trade Route, and Guilds cards use the same tokens.
It made sense to have a mat. It lets you put the rule for how they work right on the mat. It keeps the tokens distinct from ones used for Pirate Ship, or from unused tokens waiting to be used.

I had "Add a token to your Coffers." Well "+1 Coffers" is way shorter. And familiar, people get it immediately. It gets to go with the other +'s. It looks nice on the cards.

As I mentioned in Discord, there is another change coming that you won't see until Alchemy, which is, Possession is now going to call out the Debt token specifically - you get the cards they would get and the Debt tokens they would get. It will have the symbol on the card, weird though that is.

Aha.  That is going to be a confusing thing for players who have Alchemy but not Empires, but probably less confusing overall than remembering you take other players' - token.

But this essentially means that until Possession is updated (either hard copy or online), then my logic should still work.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2018, 01:10:53 pm by werothegreat »
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2018, 01:17:39 pm »
+3

Uhhhh....

So, not all tokens anymore? Just the debt tokens?
Yes, that's what I'm saying, just Debt tokens.

How are you guys concluding that Possession works on anything other than debt tokens? It's directly contradicted in the above quote.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2018, 01:21:14 pm »
0

Uhhhh....

So, not all tokens anymore? Just the debt tokens?
Yes, that's what I'm saying, just Debt tokens.

How are you guys concluding that Possession works on anything other than debt tokens? It's directly contradicted in the above quote.

The change is not live yet though, as the new version of the Alchemy rulebook has not been released, while Coffers is already a thing.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2018, 01:41:56 pm »
0

Uhhhh....

So, not all tokens anymore? Just the debt tokens?
Yes, that's what I'm saying, just Debt tokens.

How are you guys concluding that Possession works on anything other than debt tokens? It's directly contradicted in the above quote.

The change is not live yet though, as the new version of the Alchemy rulebook has not been released, while Coffers is already a thing.

But this whole discussion was about the new rule change! majiponi's post that started the whole thing specifically talked about the new rule change, and was clarifying that, under the new rule, coin tokens would stay with the possessed person who actually played Baker.

All the other discussion seems to have been a mix of confusion concerning people who either didn't know that there was a new rule change, or thinking that we were talking about the current (obsolete) version of the rule.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2018, 01:54:57 pm »
+3

You have this backwards. He was asking about playing Baker while he was possessed; not about forcing someone to play Baker while Possessing them. And indeed, the rule is changing again; it is now back to the original printed first edition Possession, for everything except .

Not exactly, the Possessor also gets VP tokens, and (horribly) the -$1 token.

Here's the timeline, assuming that you would always play with the newest versions of everything:

* Possessor gets no tokens.

* Empires is released, with Possession errata in the rulebook. Possessor gets Debt tokens, Coin tokens and the -$1 token. Possessor doesn't get Pirate Ship tokens, based on the way Pirate Ship works as explained in the Seaside rulebook (later corrected in the 2nd edition card text).

* Prosperity 2nd edition is released, with changed rules about VP tokens. Possessor now gets VP tokens, Debt tokens, Coin tokens and the -$1 token.

* Guilds 2nd edition is released, with changed rules about Coin tokens. Possessor now gets VP tokens, Debt tokens and the -$1 token.

Are you sure rule #2 ever existed? Empires Previews #1 was where Donald first mentioned that Possession was receiving errata, and from the very beginning he said that the possessor would get VP tokens in addition to debt and coin tokens. I don't see any time when there was a rule that made VP tokens different from Debt or Coin.

Quote
Oh right. I forgot to mention it, but Possession is getting errata. No joke, errata. It will now cause the possessing player to also get all tokens the other player would have gotten. This means they will also get VP tokens, which wasn't the point, but was the simplest way to make debt + Possession not suck.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2018, 02:31:02 pm »
0

Are you sure rule #2 ever existed? Empires Previews #1 was where Donald first mentioned that Possession was receiving errata, and from the very beginning he said that the possessor would get VP tokens in addition to debt and coin tokens. I don't see any time when there was a rule that made VP tokens different from Debt or Coin.

The Empires rulebook said that you take VP tokens, the original Prosperity rulebook said that you take VP tokens and put them on your mat. Empires didn't mention any mats, but for people with Prosperity it would seem that you use the mats, since the rulebook didn't mention any specific rules change about taking VP tokens. But you're right, Donald did declare that rules change online when Empires was released, so following all official announcements, printed or not, there was never any rule #2.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2018, 06:30:20 pm »
+1

Aha.  That is going to be a confusing thing for players who have Alchemy but not Empires, but probably less confusing overall than remembering you take other players' - token.
Well I do get to explain it in the rulebook.

Quote
ē Any cards the Possessed player would have gained in any way, you gain instead; this includes cards bought, as well as cards gained due to Actions. The cards you gain this way go to your discard pile, even if they would have gone to that player's hand or the top of their deck or somewhere else. You also get any [debt] tokens that player would have gotten (this is a change from the original version of Possession). You do not get any other tokens that player would have gotten (this is a change from the errata in Dominion: Empires). [debt] is something from Dominion: Empires; if you do not have those cards, that part of Possession's effects does not matter.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2018, 12:25:08 am »
+1

Is it too late to sneak in some wording that clarifies what happens to States during a Possessed turn?

(My reading of LastFootnote's answer to me over on BGG is that the Possessed player gets States as normal, though he didn't explicitly state that.)
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #60 on: March 24, 2018, 04:39:41 am »
+2

Is it too late to sneak in some wording that clarifies what happens to States during a Possessed turn?

(My reading of LastFootnote's answer to me over on BGG is that the Possessed player gets States as normal, though he didn't explicitly state that.)
It is way too late.

The possessing player has no rule giving them States, and so does not get them. States are not gained cards or debt tokens.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #61 on: March 24, 2018, 04:13:58 pm »
0

Thanks for that info cascade... Iíll definitely give lookout another try. There have been other cards in the past that I didnít think were great. But I think are cool now. Examples stone mason, smugglers, and story teller. Man I have had some good games with storyteller! Itís a powerful card. After you figure out itís wonkyness. Even though I have had to replace cards. It hasnít bothered me that much. Itís just so hard to find blank cards none of the new expansions have them. Luckily my 2nd to last expansion I bought seaside had 12 of them which I havenít used yet. But since Iím an animal lover and a zoo volunteer. Replacing cards that my stepfather didnít like with mostly animals has been mostly great. I even had to replace curses. Wastelands make more sense for a minus score anyway. Snake pit replaced witch, monkey replaced oracle, poisen apples replaced scrying pool, bee pheromones replaced familiar, truth serum replaced possession, desert replaced fortune teller, earthquake replaced cultist, and ruined fountain replaced mystic. Thankfully I got to keep most of the vauge cards. Like ghost ship, haunted woods, entantress mostly cause theres a pig in the picture, sea hag, swamp hag, soothsayer, and Iíll gotten gains. Oh and haunted castle too. Of course Iím disappointed with nocturne in more ways than one. First of all Iíd have to replace half the expansion. And then it adds another 2 hours to gameplay. Most of my friends arenít ready for it, too complicated for them. And I just donít have enough blank cards. The only other expansion I donít have is intrigue. But only because Iím trying to find the original at reasonable price. I want sabatour and secret chamber! And tribute looked like an interesting interactive card. Coppersmith would be an awesome addition to my copper strategy games. Apothecary, counting house, settlers, bustling village, beggar, fountain, goons, storyteller, gardens. Even just a couple of these in the game is a strong copper strategy. So Iíll just stick to nocturne online only. Oh and after the disappointment of nocturne Iíve decided to create my own dominion expansion for me and my friends to enjoy. The snowline expansion. It still in process. But have most of the info for most of the cards down. It has 2 new traveler cards, duration, reserve, and some cards will use the journey token(boot). Hereís a few cards I have put together. Yeti, frigid village, fur trader which is the end of one of the travelers, avalanche, and snow shoes. Iíve also got some new alchemy cards too. And some of the actions have plus + 1 potion. Meaning once you buy them you may not have to hang on to potion cards anymore. Hereís the cards: mad scientist, panacea, mortar and pestle, the potter, magnifying glass, and wine cellar. I even have my own promo card! Village idiot which is a duration attack card.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #62 on: March 24, 2018, 04:48:02 pm »
0

I am confused... why would you have a problem with Witch and Curse, but not with Haunted Castle and an Enchantress turning people into pigs? I could understand having a problem with all of them, but only with some...?
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #63 on: March 24, 2018, 05:01:30 pm »
+2

I am confused... why would you have a problem with Witch and Curse, but not with Haunted Castle and an Enchantress turning people into pigs? I could understand having a problem with all of them, but only with some...?

Witchcraft is specifically mentioned and condemned in the Bible; so some branches of Christianity have strong feelings about the subject. This generally includes things such as fortune tellers as well. Ghosts and haunting and such are generally not in that same category.

For Enchantress, while that card in particular may be intended to refer to basically the same thing as a witch, the word "enchantress" has other meanings as well, so someone who is just going off of the card names might not think of it.

But I'd be careful with this line of discussion; it is edging on an RSP split.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #64 on: March 24, 2018, 09:54:43 pm »
+1

Well ghost town, haunted woods, ect. Didnít bother him because there are plenty of ghost towns that were abandoned and not because they were haunted. And if your in a forest at night it can be spooky doesnít mean itís haunted though. So those cards are vague. However the hex haunting and ghost have pictures of actual ghosts and I would have to throw those out. Devils workshop is also horrible along with imp. The only way anything with devil in the name, would a thorny devil lizard, Tasmanian devil, and deviled eggs. Those are the only things associated with the word devil that my folks would find acceptable. They donít mind if I play a game that has some magic like final fantasy. They just donít want those cards in their house. So I can play with any card online. I have asbergers syndrome so I canít live on my own. Itís their house there rules. At least I can keep the vague ones( mostly because I donít have enough blank cards to replace all the vauge cards)
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #65 on: March 24, 2018, 10:30:59 pm »
0

Anyway since Iíve had to replace a lot of cards. Iíve had to get creative. And if I got nocturne I already have ideas to replace most of the cards Iíd have to replace. But thatís when I decided why not make my own expansion. I saw others have done it online too. Itís still in process. And then I thought about alchemy, thereís so many empty inserts in the box, itís almost like their challenging us to make more cards for it. After all they combined guilds and cornucopia cause they were small. And they never made another small expansion. So alchemy seems like a lonely expansion if you ask me. I know most people hate it. But I dislike prosperity mostly because half of the treasure cards are not worth buying and thereís not many actions. Thatís why Iím adding a few more actions ect. To alchemy. To make it more fun to play with. Cause I love a lot of the cards in that expansion. Apothecary, poisen apples(scrying pool), vineyard, golem, university only if thereís a few other actions costing 5, alchemist, truth serum (possession), bee pheromones (familiar), herbalist, philosophers stone, transmute, and apprentice as the worst card. Unless you play it with certain cards. In that order. So Iím adding a new treasure, a new reaction since it didnít have any. A new attack powerful card. But with a minus score attached to it. So youíll think twice about buying too many. A new action-victory. And 2 new duration cards with potion in its cost. Just something for me and my friends to enjoy. While we wait for the next expansion to come out. If there is one.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #66 on: March 26, 2018, 11:17:29 am »
0

Having a component to label the Bane card was just as surprising.  Not needed, but nice-to-have.  Many groups I've played have done one of the following, all working out:
1) put the Bane card way off to the side
2) "tap it" (aka, turn it 90 degrees)
3) put a glass bead next to it.

Another update I'm wondering about is if they allowed Poor House to be the Bane card, as even though the rules call for a 2 or 3-cost card in the Kingdom, I suspected Poor House would've been fine too.  DVX was last OK with that...
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/12682225#12682225

What timing.  This past Saturday, after years of playing this game mind you, my wife played a Candlestick Maker, took her coin token, and asked where her coin token mat was.  She was very upset when I told here there wasn't one.  Now, when I needlessly buy the 2E version because I want all the new shiny, I can say I was just trying to make her happy.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #67 on: March 26, 2018, 11:22:34 am »
+4

Another update I'm wondering about is if they allowed Poor House to be the Bane card, as even though the rules call for a 2 or 3-cost card in the Kingdom, I suspected Poor House would've been fine too.  DVX was last OK with that...
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/12682225#12682225

No, the Bane card still has to cost $2 or $3. Just because Donald would have been OK with Poor House being the Bane doesn't mean that he'd change it in a reprint. The idea is to change as little as possible, and changing functionality just so one extra card can also be a Bane for Young Witch doesn't qualify. I mean sure it's a small change, but the benefit you'd get from that change is at least as small, and the impetus is heavily toward not changing things.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #68 on: March 26, 2018, 01:06:27 pm »
0

Thought I'd point out that Guilds & Cornucopia 2E now seems to be generally available. $39.49 from Amazon, Target, Walmart, probably elsewhere.

Amazon also offers a 5% off coupon that you click to apply, making it $38.04: https://www.amazon.com/Dominion-Cornucopia-Guilds-Card-Game/dp/B00XRDONWS

If you want to order other games too, Target offers $10 off $50 or $25 off $100 on their "toys" category, which includes games. Discount automatically applies in cart: https://www.target.com/p/rio-grande-games-dominion-cornucopia-and-guilds-card-game-expansions-board-game/-/A-51604536
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #69 on: March 26, 2018, 06:38:07 pm »
0

Another update I'm wondering about is if they allowed Poor House to be the Bane card, as even though the rules call for a 2 or 3-cost card in the Kingdom, I suspected Poor House would've been fine too.  DVX was last OK with that...
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/12682225#12682225

No, the Bane card still has to cost $2 or $3. Just because Donald would have been OK with Poor House being the Bane doesn't mean that he'd change it in a reprint. The idea is to change as little as possible, and changing functionality just so one extra card can also be a Bane for Young Witch doesn't qualify. I mean sure it's a small change, but the benefit you'd get from that change is at least as small, and the impetus is heavily toward not changing things.

That's a shame.  At least its easy enough to house rule.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2018, 09:20:35 pm »
+9

Feast yer eyes on the high-res Coffers mat:

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2018, 10:02:48 am »
0

Yes, it's very pretty. But it only depicts one coffer!

This is all going to continue to bug me; I can tell. )-8
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2018, 10:43:28 am »
0

Feast yer eyes on the high-res Coffers mat:



Between Ryan Laukat's art, the font, and the scroll text boxes I would swear it came from a Red Raven game if I didn't know better.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2018, 01:37:39 pm »
+1

Yes, it's very pretty. But it only depicts one coffer!

It depicts 1 Coffers.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2018, 02:56:35 pm »
0

Huh.  It looks like Jay uploaded the updated Alchemy rulebook to the RGG site.  Is it available for purchase yet?
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #75 on: March 29, 2018, 03:34:08 pm »
+1

I am confused... why would you have a problem with Witch and Curse, but not with Haunted Castle and an Enchantress turning people into pigs? I could understand having a problem with all of them, but only with some...?

To be fair, Dominion is riddled with occultism. If you want to completely abandon everything remotely related to the occult, you can't play Dominion. But you can't use the English (or Dutch) names for the weeks of the day anymore either, because they refer to Germanic/Norse (pagan) gods. Banning everything remotely occult out of your life is simply not doable unless you spend the rest of your days in a monastery. (Hey, that's also a Dominion card!)

Being a christian myself, I felt a little bit uneasy when Nocturne came out. It's by far the darkest expansion so far, thematically, and almost all of the cards have some reference to the occult. But I kinda got over it. I figured God won't condemn me just because of a card game.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #76 on: March 29, 2018, 03:42:28 pm »
+6

Being a christian myself, I felt a little bit uneasy when Nocturne came out. It's by far the darkest expansion so far, thematically, and almost all of the cards have some reference to the occult. But I kinda got over it. I figured God won't condemn me just because of a card game.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #77 on: March 29, 2018, 04:00:36 pm »
+5

Also, it's a game.  Is having a card called "Witch" implying you condone witchcraft?  By that logic, Militia means you're going to raise an army, Torturer means you've got a dungeon in your basement.... like I dunno.  It just seems silly.  It's just a game, there's no such thing as real magic.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #78 on: March 29, 2018, 04:10:21 pm »
+2

Being a christian myself, I felt a little bit uneasy when Nocturne came out.
I've played Secret Hitler. In a church.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #79 on: March 29, 2018, 04:15:46 pm »
0

Also, it's a game.  Is having a card called "Witch" implying you condone witchcraft?  By that logic, Militia means you're going to raise an army, Torturer means you've got a dungeon in your basement.... like I dunno.  It just seems silly.

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured.

Quote
It's just a game, there's no such thing as real magic.

That's where I respectfully disagree. There are real witches in the world who practice real magic by means of real rituals. My girlfriend used to be a witch before she converted to christianity. It's real, it's dangerous, it's demonic, and the people who get involved with it tend to get in over their heads. Sure, it doesn't work like in the Harry Potter books, where you say a single Latin word and a beam of light shoots out of your wand - it's more subtle than that. But it does exist.

...but we're getting really far off topic here. My apologies.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #80 on: March 29, 2018, 09:04:59 pm »
+3

Sure, it doesn't work like in the Harry Potter books, where you say a single Latin word and a beam of light shoots out of your wand - it's more subtle than that. But it does exist.
It also doesn't work like setting a card on the table, picking up two more cards from a stack sitting nearby, and handing a purple card from a stack of them to each of your friends.

The only people I've seen who are actually afraid of playing card games or reading books that mention terms associated with the occult tend not to be very familiar with the occult.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2018, 09:32:24 pm »
+2

Huh.  Horn of Plenty no longer has the big on it.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #82 on: March 30, 2018, 02:22:33 am »
+1

Also, it's a game.  Is having a card called "Witch" implying you condone witchcraft?  By that logic, Militia means you're going to raise an army, Torturer means you've got a dungeon in your basement.... like I dunno.  It just seems silly.  It's just a game, there's no such thing as real magic.

Take it to RSP.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #83 on: March 30, 2018, 02:45:40 am »
+5

Torturer means you've got a dungeon in your basement....

Actually I have 10 Dungeons in my basement.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #84 on: March 30, 2018, 09:10:50 am »
+2

The magic/witchcraft discussion was indeed continued in RSP :) See: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=18422.0

To post something more ontopic:

Huh.  Horn of Plenty no longer has the big on it.



I like it better this way, the card gets a lot less crowded and it doesn't really need the big 0 to clarify that it's a Treasure card that doesn't intrinsically give you $.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #85 on: March 30, 2018, 09:46:39 am »
+8

Cornucopia and Guilds have been brought up to 2nd edition on the wiki.  All that remains is to wait for Dominion Online to update to the Coffers wording, so I can get screencaps of those cards.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #86 on: April 02, 2018, 05:13:28 am »
0

[I updated the wiki]

Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.

Liar! :P
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #87 on: April 02, 2018, 05:28:57 am »
+1

The only other expansion I donít have is intrigue. But only because Iím trying to find the original at reasonable price. I want sabatour and secret chamber! And tribute looked like an interesting interactive card. Coppersmith would be an awesome addition to my copper strategy games. Apothecary, counting house, settlers, bustling village, beggar, fountain, goons, storyteller, gardens. Even just a couple of these in the game is a strong copper strategy.

I would strongly advise getting 2nd ed Intrigue and just making up some fan cards to match the removed 1st ed cards you like. The cards added to 2nd ed are some of the best dominion cards going. The ones that were removed generally look cool but turn out not to be once you've played with them a bit. Coppersmith can be interesting but Secret Chamber is horribly fiddly and Tribute is just annoying and pretty weak too.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2018, 07:43:58 am »
+1

[I updated the wiki]

Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.

Liar! :P

I tried to update the "Second Edition" page once, then Wero the Great modified my post after just a couple of hours, and everything was clearer! He really is Great!

@ werothegreat: Talking about "Second Edition", you can maybe post that "Base Cards" isn't updated yet, and that it will be updated before Alchemy? Just a thought...
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2018, 11:21:54 pm »
0

A few comments and photos...

Contents:


I apologize in advance as I do not mean to hi-jack this thread. However, there seems to be an active and knowledgeable player-base here so I'm hoping someone can answer my question based on personal experience...

I JUST received a copy of Guilds and Cornucopia via Amazon. According to the seller this is the 2nd Edition, but I just want to make sure before opening the box as it conflicts with some other information. My box has "Rio Grande Games 2017" on it, so I'm thinking it is 2E. However, I have all of the other 2E expansions and on the back they all say (for example): "Dominion: Adventures is an expansion, and cannot be played by itself; to play with it, you need Dominion (or the first edition of Intrigue)" My G&C box does not say the "or the first edition of Intrigue" part, which I thought was one of the ways to identify a 2nd edition.

In addition, my box's contents section is different than what is listed in the rules section (above). It says:
"Contents:
300 cards
25 coins
6 mats
box liner
inlay
rule booklet"

Can anyone clarify?
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2018, 11:25:01 pm »
+4

That is 2nd Edition.  The first edition did not have mats.
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Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

Donald X.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2018, 01:34:13 am »
+1

That is 2nd Edition.  The first edition did not have mats.
Also you can tell from the card images (on the back cover) - two of them have the large font.

Somehow I forgot about the "first editions of Intrigue" thing when doing that back cover.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 01:40:42 pm by Donald X. »
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2018, 02:18:39 am »
0

Huh.  Horn of Plenty no longer has the big on it.


Interestingly, it still has the small $0 symbols, making Crown the only Treasure to not feature them.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #93 on: April 07, 2018, 07:53:46 pm »
+3

Feast yer eyes on the high-res Coffers mat:


Can't.  No feast!  We've left 1st Edition!
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #94 on: April 08, 2018, 07:44:45 am »
+2

Can't.  No feast!  We've left 1st Edition!

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2018, 12:04:54 pm »
+1

I just saw that the new card to mark the Bane pile is actually called a "Bane card" in the rules, which is very unfortunate, since the cards from the Bane pile are called Bane cards. This leads to these unfortunate sentences in the rules:

[...] mark its pile with the Bane card (underneath it, sideways). This is the "Bane" pile referred to by Young Witch; cards that start the game in this pile are "Bane cards."

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2018, 12:32:19 pm »
+10

I just saw that the new card to mark the Bane pile is actually called a "Bane card" in the rules, which is very unfortunate, since the cards from the Bane pile are called Bane cards. This leads to these unfortunate sentences in the rules:

[...] mark its pile with the Bane card (underneath it, sideways). This is the "Bane" pile referred to by Young Witch; cards that start the game in this pile are "Bane cards."
A leak from the upcoming superhero-themed expansion shows that it just gets worse:
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2018, 02:31:21 pm »
+1

I just noticed that there is a printing error in the rules PDF. In the FAQ section, the image for Followers is repeated instead of the image for Trusty Steed. Of course it's too late to fix this in the published game, but it can be fixed for next time.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2018, 03:57:02 pm »
+1

I just noticed that there is a printing error in the rules PDF. In the FAQ section, the image for Followers is repeated instead of the image for Trusty Steed. Of course it's too late to fix this in the published game, but it can be fixed for next time.
Wero caught this and I've reported it. Also the Possession FAQ has right for left, but that one wasn't printed yet.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2018, 05:31:18 pm »
+3

Wero caught this and I've reported it. Also the Possession FAQ has right for left, but that one wasn't printed yet.

It sounds like it's printed now(?). Hopefully you also caught this error, for Scrying Pool:

If you run out of cards without revealing an Action card, shuffle your discard pile and keep going.

I'm pretty sure this should be "non-Action card", as it was in the 1st edition rules.

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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #100 on: April 16, 2018, 06:17:10 pm »
+4

Wero caught this and I've reported it. Also the Possession FAQ has right for left, but that one wasn't printed yet.

It sounds like it's printed now(?). Hopefully you also caught this error, for Scrying Pool:

If you run out of cards without revealing an Action card, shuffle your discard pile and keep going.

I'm pretty sure this should be "non-Action card", as it was in the 1st edition rules.
It is not printed yet and I will report this error.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #101 on: June 14, 2018, 11:43:58 pm »
0

Being a christian myself, I felt a little bit uneasy when Nocturne came out. It's by far the darkest expansion so far, thematically, and almost all of the cards have some reference to the occult. But I kinda got over it. I figured God won't condemn me just because of a card game.


It's not a big fear, but it's still there.... I find god's favorite card game is Munchkin!
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #102 on: June 27, 2018, 02:22:01 pm »
0

Donald,

How is the Alchemy reprint coming along?  Any updates you can share?

Thanks, Kevin
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #103 on: June 27, 2018, 03:28:19 pm »
+1

How is the Alchemy reprint coming along?  Any updates you can share?
It should be out any day; I will find out when someone reports having it. I am checking Amazon, they do not have it for a normal price, so I guess it isn't out yet.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #104 on: July 07, 2018, 07:11:19 pm »
+3

How is the Alchemy reprint coming along?  Any updates you can share?
It should be out any day; I will find out when someone reports having it. I am checking Amazon, they do not have it for a normal price, so I guess it isn't out yet.
Jay now expects Alchemy to be in stores in about a month. It's printed but hasn't shipped.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #105 on: July 09, 2018, 06:11:05 pm »
0

How is the Alchemy reprint coming along?  Any updates you can share?
It should be out any day; I will find out when someone reports having it. I am checking Amazon, they do not have it for a normal price, so I guess it isn't out yet.
Jay now expects Alchemy to be in stores in about a month. It's printed but hasn't shipped.

No new Base Cards set yet, by the way? Looking so forward to these two boxes, so that everything (except for a couple of promos) is updated.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #106 on: July 09, 2018, 06:11:39 pm »
+3

No new Base Cards set yet, by the way? Looking so forward to these two boxes, so that everything (except for a couple of promos) is updated.
New Base Cards is out, some people have it.
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Re: Playing the new Guilds & Cornucopia!
« Reply #107 on: July 10, 2018, 05:12:47 pm »
0

No new Base Cards set yet, by the way? Looking so forward to these two boxes, so that everything (except for a couple of promos) is updated.
New Base Cards is out, some people have it.

OK, great news! Thanks a lot!
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