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Author Topic: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes  (Read 1567 times)

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Seprix

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The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« on: January 22, 2018, 07:43:32 am »
+17

Here it is, the thing everyone has been waiting for. Hexes. Those bad things your opponent gets when you play Hexers. There were some legitimate surprises on this list, although I now mostly agree with them.

This is my current list for the Hexes, from best to worst: Delusion, Locusts, War, Envy, Poverty, Plague, Misery, Greed, Haunting, Bad Omens, Fear, Famine.


The Hexes

#1 Delusion Weighted Average: 84.56% / Unweighted Average: 81.82% / Median: 100% / Standard Deviation: 22.27%

In a not very close contest, Delusion nabs first place with the vast majority of first place votes. Delusion is a nasty Hex, forcing your opponent to not be able to buy Actions for an entire turn. This can put the opponent into a hole he cannot dig himself out of, and at the right time is absolutely devastating to get hit by.

#2 Locusts Weighted Average: 78.94% / Unweighted Average: 79.22% / Median: 81.82% / Standard Deviation: 16.15%

I had Locusts much lower than this (but seemingly nobody else, I gave it the lowest ranking out of everyone). However, after a discussion Locusts does indeed belong around this spot. Locusts fiddles with your deck in very annoying ways, either trashing a useful card like a Village or giving out a Curse in much the same way as Swindler, but better. Sometimes it can hit Province, and then the tears really start to flow. Locusts is a very swingy hex, so is Swindler or Saboteur.

#3 War Weighted Average: 69.62% / Unweighted Average: 63.64% / Median: 63.64% / Standard Deviation: 23.97%

Another counter-intuitive pick (I had it very low), I find it to be a very situational Hex. Sometimes it will hit a Village and that is very hard to come back from, but then sometimes it will just bounce off a Silver, and that is quite friendly! Overall though, this is a very swingy Hex that can land on the wrong side for one guy, and then it's a tough pitch.

#4 Plague Weighted Average: 66.45% / Unweighted Average: 66.23% / Median: 63.64% / Standard Deviation: 20.45%

Plague is simple. Curse the opponent. Nothing terribly fancy. Sometimes the in hand stuff hurts and sometimes it helps if anything, but overall itís just a Curser in Hex format. Quite good, although maybe not as good as Envy. Probably a bit overranked. Nothing left to say.

#5 Envy Weighted Average: 66.2% / Unweighted Average: 69.7% / Median: 81.82% / Standard Deviation: 28.1%

Envy is a more situational version of Delusion. Either it is quite strong or barely noticeable, and it entirely depends on the choice of payload. With Golds and Silvers, Envy can block an entire turn out and that hurts with the Gains Race most engines are. With Conspirators and other kinds of virtual coin or payload, not so much. Heck, alt Treasures or Platinum are not touched by Envy. Also, if a theoretical card existed where upon playing it Copper gave an extra $1, that would also work. Speaking of that theoretical card, it must feel pretty envious of the cards that still exist.

#6 Poverty Weighted Average: 65.69% / Unweighted Average: 69.26% / Median: 72.73% / Standard Deviation: 14.44%

Poverty is the Militia attack, and the Militia attack is hard to deal with. I am almost always happy to give this attack out to someone. Probably a bit underranked, but people still seem to underestimate just how good of an attack Militia is so it's not terribly surprising. You could also justify this position since it is only played once every twelve times.

#7 Haunting Weighted Average: 42.8% / Unweighted Average: 44.16% / Median: 36.36% / Standard Deviation: 24.98%

Haunting is not very good and is pretty overranked here at #7. Without an Urchin or Fear being played first, this attack is mostly ignorable except in money games, but in breaking news everyone knows to not just play money when attacks are on the board.

#8 Greed Weighted Average: 37.48% / Unweighted Average: 37.23% / Median: 36.36% / Standard Deviation: 19.42%

Probably slightly underranked, Greed is a weak junker attack. Greed doesnít really stop turns from happening unless the turn was pretty much a dud already, and the attack is slow enough that itís not much of a problem to deal with. Plague is miles better because it simply hands out a Curse.

#9 Misery Weighted Average: 35.6% / Unweighted Average: 38.53% / Median: 36.36% / Standard Deviation: 22.95%

Misery is an interesting Hex, albeit mostly on the weaker side. What ends up happening is either Misery means very little to the state of the game unless you get hit twice, or it is absolutely crucial in a single Province game and then you sob. But mostly it is okay to be hit with and isnít nearly as game changing as getting slammed by a Delusion. Despite this, it is still pretty underranked, I would still rather be hit by Haunting or Greed before Misery.

#10 Bad Omens Weighted Average: 26.68% / Unweighted Average: 23.38% / Median: 18.18% / Standard Deviation: 16.5%

Bad Omens is mostly bad. Itís a cute attack in theory but in execution I never really seem to end up caring, again unless my turn was going to be a dud anyways. And if it was, I really donít mind drawing two Coppers with my Smithy instead of some dead Actions, and the Coppers even skip the shuffle if it's not a Moat variant draw card. Fears about triggering bad shuffles are not nearly as bad as I thought they would be.

#11 Fear Weighted Average: 22.89% / Unweighted Average: 23.38% / Median: 18.18% / Standard Deviation: 16.01%

If it wasnít for good olí #12, Fear would easily be the worst Hex. It so rarely hurts to be forced to discard a Copper. The only time this attack really seems to hurt is when it is played before (but not even after, 5 card minimum) Haunting, (which is thematic) or if all you have in hand are Action and Victory cards (afraid of these parentheticals yet?). Well even then youíre mostly not going to care, there is probably still a ton of drawing to be done with the four cards left in hand.

#12 Famine Weighted Average: 3.09% / Unweighted Average: 3.46% / Median: 0% / Standard Deviation: 5.23%

In a not even close contest, Famine is almost universally considered to be the worst Hex, earning the vast majority of 0 ratings. Not only does it barely hurt, it is even kind enough to shuffle the rest of your deck afterwards! Famine is just a much much much worse Rabble.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 09:16:26 am »
+3

I think the strongest Hexes are the ones that basically give your opponent an extra turn, in order from most to least likely to cause something close to that effect: Delusion, War, Envy, Locusts (and you need to get really unlucky with Locusts). The other ones don't have that big of an impact.
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Gazbag

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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 10:06:25 am »
+1

I think Bad Omens is a clear 2nd last/last place. Fear is basically a Cutpurse and can occasionally knock someone from $5-$4 which can hurt. Bad Omens has the Fortune Teller problem of cycling your opponent a bunch and I find is usually more of a Boon than some of the Boons. Misery is also too high, I find it very rare that it does anything at all.

I like Awaclus' fix for the top of the list.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 04:52:13 pm »
0

Very much disagree about Bad Omens. It's brutal if it hits you before you trash your Coppers (which is often.)

And War is definitely too high. It doesn't do much in my experience, and it can have the Saboteur effect of cycling your deck.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 05:06:48 pm »
0

Definitely agree that misery should be ranked higher.  Getting two points seems better than a militia attack.  It's like a double point monument compared to a militia.  Also a 2 point swing seems like a much bigger deal than a half ghost ship attack.

As far as art goes, I love haunting and delusion.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2018, 05:08:08 pm »
0

And War is definitely too high. It doesn't do much in my experience, and it can have the Saboteur effect of cycling your deck.

Yeah, it has the Saboteur effect on a $4 card which gives you a free Gold when you gain it and a +buy when you play it. Saboteur wasn't that weak.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2018, 07:59:21 pm »
0

Notable Complaints:
  • Locusts should drop, it hurts when it hurts but usually it's not that bad.
  • Envy should at least jump above Plague, maybe War too. It can demolish turns very easily.
  • Fear should go over Bad Omens, because a minimum Cutpurse isn't that bad, and it can actually suck (for instance with trashing). I could see a case for it going over Misery too, most people fail to realise how little -2 hurts.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2018, 08:23:29 pm »
+1

Very much disagree about Bad Omens. It's brutal if it hits you before you trash your Coppers (which is often.)

And War is definitely too high. It doesn't do much in my experience, and it can have the Saboteur effect of cycling your deck.

War is guaranteed to trash a card unless you donít have a $3 or $4. I donít see why that ďdoesnít do muchĒ, itís definitey one thatís fucked me over the most.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2018, 08:34:27 pm »
+1

Very much disagree about Bad Omens. It's brutal if it hits you before you trash your Coppers (which is often.)

And War is definitely too high. It doesn't do much in my experience, and it can have the Saboteur effect of cycling your deck.

War is guaranteed to trash a card unless you donít have a $3 or $4. I donít see why that ďdoesnít do muchĒ, itís definitey one thatís fucked me over the most.

It's extra fun if your opponent has cost reducers in play.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2018, 09:32:28 pm »
0

Very much disagree about Bad Omens. It's brutal if it hits you before you trash your Coppers (which is often.)

And War is definitely too high. It doesn't do much in my experience, and it can have the Saboteur effect of cycling your deck.

War is guaranteed to trash a card unless you donít have a $3 or $4. I donít see why that ďdoesnít do muchĒ, itís definitey one thatís fucked me over the most.

It's guaranteed to trash a cheap, easily replaceable card and leave your expensive ones alone. Saboteur also hunted through your deck for targets, and it was considered one of the weakest attacks in the game.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2018, 09:48:21 pm »
+3

It's guaranteed to trash a cheap, easily replaceable card and leave your expensive ones alone. Saboteur also hunted through your deck for targets, and it was considered one of the weakest attacks in the game.

War can easily trash the best card in your deck. It's never good to lose the best card in your deck.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2018, 09:54:28 pm »
+3

So you say that top decking copper doesn't make you dud on turns where you already would dud.
Imagine you play village and smithy
- You see 4 cards
-If you have been bad omen'd you only see 2 cards.
That difference is huge.
Basically any other draw works the same way.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 02:00:25 am »
0

War seems rougher than Delusion to me.  It seems like it will hit a 3-4$ engine component about half the time or more.  If it's later in the game (and if it's not, War seems even better, when Silver is a valid hit), you will quite possibly have to skip a 5-6$ turn to replace it, because you probably bought it for a reason.  You're skipping the same 5$ action pickup as Delusion except you're not getting a Gold a consolation prize. 

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Gazbag

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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 02:13:23 am »
+3

War seems rougher than Delusion to me.  It seems like it will hit a 3-4$ engine component about half the time or more.  If it's later in the game (and if it's not, War seems even better, when Silver is a valid hit), you will quite possibly have to skip a 5-6$ turn to replace it, because you probably bought it for a reason.  You're skipping the same 5$ action pickup as Delusion except you're not getting a Gold a consolation prize.

Delusion is much worse because +buy is fairly common in Hex games (Skulk). This means sometimes Delusion is like missing 2-3 Actions which is usually just game losing.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 03:59:47 am »
+2

At the same time, Delusion is less bad for multiple reasons if Vampire is the hex source: You can gain most Actions you need with Vampire, and you can still buy Vampire if it's early enough that you're buying actions. This effect is even stronger in Nocturne-heavy games where you're more than happy to keep building by buying a couple Dens of Sin instead of Actions. Even without them, many engines can afford to spend a turn buying treasure payload or focusing on other useful things like trashing.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 05:55:54 am »
+1

Very much disagree about Bad Omens. It's brutal if it hits you before you trash your Coppers (which is often.)

And War is definitely too high. It doesn't do much in my experience, and it can have the Saboteur effect of cycling your deck.

War is guaranteed to trash a card unless you donít have a $3 or $4. I donít see why that ďdoesnít do muchĒ, itís definitey one thatís fucked me over the most.

It's guaranteed to trash a cheap, easily replaceable card and leave your expensive ones alone. Saboteur also hunted through your deck for targets, and it was considered one of the weakest attacks in the game.

Yeah, thatís why Warrior and Knights are both awful cards? Both are regarded as at least decent attacks even though they can miss.

Saboteur was bad because, it didnít do anything except the attack, it took up an Action slot, and they got a replacement card anyway. Trashing attacks are actually, pretty strong - at best they put you a half turn or so behind, at worst you lose a key card you have trouble replacing because it is scarce / the pile is empty. You say ďeasily replaceableĒ but the supply is finite and losing one of the only Villages etc is actually something that does matter. I donít know how to convince you ďtrashing attacks actually do thingsĒ, but your logic here is awful.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 05:57:43 am by Chris is me »
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 08:23:54 am »
0

I've had an experience where Warrior flipped my deck early on due to luck, but in general it's quite effective when it hits an important deck component. Losing a village when the villages are empty can hurt, moreso than many other hexes.

Locusts is similarly annoying, but is closer to the Saboteur effect. Losing an important action card with no good replacement can suck. Sometimes you can lose a key $3 Action card and are forced to take a $2 Action card even if you don't want one, or perhaps you can't replace it at all.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 02:43:15 pm »
+2

I find Misery made me appreciate more the importance of free tiebreaker points. I don't think it's a top Hex by any means, but I found it more effective than I had supposed.
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 07:06:56 pm »
+2

War seems rougher than Delusion to me.  It seems like it will hit a 3-4$ engine component about half the time or more.  If it's later in the game (and if it's not, War seems even better, when Silver is a valid hit), you will quite possibly have to skip a 5-6$ turn to replace it, because you probably bought it for a reason.  You're skipping the same 5$ action pickup as Delusion except you're not getting a Gold a consolation prize.

Delusion is much worse because +buy is fairly common in Hex games (Skulk). This means sometimes Delusion is like missing 2-3 Actions which is usually just game losing.

But my podcast told me Skulk is bad and we are only going to be buying those other ones, without +buy
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 07:17:28 pm »
+1

The real reason why Delusion is worse (for the player receiving it) than War is that it usually nullifies your $5 turn, whereas War nullifies a $3 or $4 turn.

Now that I think of it, it's kind of silly that the Ruins ranking is a ranking of how good the are, the Hexes ranking is a ranking of how bad they are.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 07:19:39 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2018, 08:33:45 pm »
0

You can buy a Ruins, you can't buy a Hex.  I guess.
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O

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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2018, 09:21:58 pm »
+5

You can buy a Ruins, you can't buy a Hex.  I guess.

You can, but they come with an annoying 5-cost card tacked on.


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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2018, 05:02:12 pm »
+1

Maybe we could get these 2017 Hexes results added to the wiki page for "List of Cards by Qvist Rankings"?
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2018, 05:05:52 pm »
+4

Maybe we could get these 2017 Hexes results added to the wiki page for "List of Cards by Qvist Rankings"?

http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?title=List_of_Cards_by_Qvist_Rankings&action=edit
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Re: The Dominion Cards 2017 Edition: Hexes
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 06:44:46 am »
+4

Yesterday I bought the first Province and a Cursed Village, which hexed me into delusion. Next, my Province buy triggered the Mountain Pass. Needless to say I was the highest bidder.
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