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Author Topic: Crazy Night/Victory card idea  (Read 907 times)

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LibraryAdventurer

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Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« on: January 03, 2018, 01:21:00 am »
0

EDIT: I've decided this card isn't worth doing...
EDIT2: I've decided this card isn't worth doing (really this time), but here's an alternative which happens to have the same name. I'm trying to decide if it's any better...
Quote
Astrologer
$4 Night - Duration
Reveal a card from your hand or discard pile and put it on top of your deck. If you revealed a victory card, +1VP and take a coin token. At the start of your next turn, you may discard 2 cards to gain a Duchy.

EDIT: Here is the newest second version of the card:
Quote
Astrologer
Cost 4 - Night - Duration
+1VP for every two victory cards you have in play (rounded up). At the start of your next turn: +1 Action.
-
While this is in play, you may play non-action victory cards as actions with "+$1".

original version:
Quote
Astrologer
Cost 4 - Night / Victory
If you have more victory cards in play than tokens on your constellation mat and haven't put any tokens on the mat this turn, put a token on your constellation mat.
If you have no cards in your discard pile, take Clear Skies.
-
This is worth 1VP for every two tokens on your constellation mat.

Quote
Clear Skies
State
While you have this, you may play Estates, Duchies, and Provinces as if they were action cards with "+$1".
At the end of your buy phase, return this.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 11:19:53 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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Accatitippi

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2018, 06:23:45 am »
+1

Quote
Astrologer
Cost 4 - Night / Victory
If you have more victory cards in play than tokens on your constellation mat and haven't put any tokens on the mat this turn, put a token on your constellation mat.
If you have no cards in your discard pile, take Clear Skies.
-
This is worth 1VP for every two tokens on your constellation mat.

Quote
Clear Skies
State
While you have this, you may play Estates, Duchies, and Provinces as if they were action cards with "+$1".
At the end of your buy phase, return this.

It seems very weak.
Clear Skies is very hard to get because you have to skip your buy phase or only buy events, and gives a very small benefit, unless you really have plenty of actions and draw.
Astrologers build up very slowly, and have a very low cap: uncontested, they'll give you 5 points per card if you have a monster deck able to repeatedly draw 10 dead cards, ignoring Clear Sky which is unwieldy to get and even worse to profit from.
Also, I suspect that some form of vp-token Night card might do what this wants to do more smoothly, and with fewer balance problems with regard to the split and so on.
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Gazbag

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2018, 10:53:08 am »
+1

At first I read this as 1vp per token on your mat and I still thought it was very weak. At 1vp per 2 tokens? Yeah this can be much more generous. To make this worth 2vp is already a lot of work and then it's just $4 for 2vp, Tunnel gives 2vp and has a decent reaction and only costs $3!

Clear Skies is very difficult to get and it isn't even very good either; Abandoned Mines aren't much better than Estates. Also a couple of rules questions, is Clear Skies shared like Lost in the Woods? I assume not, and how does Clear skies interact with Inheritance? I assume you can choose to play Estate as the Inherited card or as +$1?

The tweaks that could be made are: Let this give more than 1 token per turn, make it worth 1vp per token, make clear skies easier to get and/or make Clear Skies stronger.
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CPiGuy

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2018, 12:37:44 pm »
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Here's another idea for a Night/Victory card that also involves tokens on a mat.

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Asper

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2018, 01:27:42 pm »
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Charterhouse looks a tad weak compared to Bishop, no?
If you trash a Copper, Charterhouse is nonterminal and gives no advantage, but a Charterhouse token can be worth all from 0 to 8 (12) 5ths of a VP.
Charterhouse can't trash VP cards or even Curses. I think even 3 tokens per VP might work.

GendoIkari

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2018, 03:39:25 pm »
+1

Charterhouse looks a tad weak compared to Bishop, no?
If you trash a Copper, Charterhouse is nonterminal and gives no advantage, but a Charterhouse token can be worth all from 0 to 8 (12) 5ths of a VP.
Charterhouse can't trash VP cards or even Curses. I think even 3 tokens per VP might work.

The VP might be kind of weak, but I don't think it's fair to compare it to Bishop... Most of the time you play Bishop, you only get the same trashing your opponent does... which is to say that you can't even count the trashing as a benefit of the card. You would get that benefit whether you played it or your opponent played it.
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2018, 04:27:04 pm »
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I completely missed how hard it is to get Clear Skies. I was forgetting that the cards you bought would always be there. The point of Clear Skies is to let you have more victory cards in play when you play Astrologer. And probably I tried too hard to let it be balanced with Mill/Nobles/Inheritance.
What if I made it give Clear Skies every time? (There is a copy for each player like Deluded/Envious.)
And also, it's no longer one token per turn. Now, it shouldn't be hard to make it worth as much as a duchy at least.

Quote
Astrologer
Cost 4 - Night / Victory
If you have more victory cards in play than tokens on your constellation mat, put a token on your constellation mat.
Take Clear Skies.
-
This is worth 1VP for every two tokens on your constellation mat.

...Now I'm not sure if it's interesting enough.
Maybe I'll try this instead:

Quote
Astrologer II
Cost 4 - Night / Victory / Duration
If you have more victory cards in play than tokens on your constellation mat, put a token on your constellation mat.
If your discard pile is empty except for the cards you bought this turn, take Clear Skies.
At the start of next turn: +1 Action.
-
This is worth 1VP for every two tokens on your constellation mat.

Astrologer II makes it easier to use Clear Skies (and easier to get more Astrologers in play), but harder to get Clear Skies. Still trying to think of a simpler but fitting condition to get Clear Skies for this one.

majiponi

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2018, 02:01:56 am »
+1

If your discard pile is empty except for the cards you bought this turn, take Clear Skies.

I think this has a rule problem: we cannot see a card in discard, excepting the top card. And it is too long. How about "empty deck"? Much clearer.
And I think Clear Skies is weak, and has a problem, too. What if we play Inherited Estates? Duchy, Province as Copper works, I think.
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Asper

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2018, 11:09:50 am »
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Make Astrologer an Action card to avoid the "freshly bought cards" problem.
Have Clear Skies let the player discard Victory cards for coins to make it clearer and avoid the unnecessary trouble of playing Estates.

Gazbag

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2018, 11:31:50 am »
+3

Make Astrologer an Action card to avoid the "freshly bought cards" problem.
Have Clear Skies let the player discard Victory cards for coins to make it clearer and avoid the unnecessary trouble of playing Estates.

I think the idea of Clear Skies is that it lets you get more victories into play for Astrologer, whether that's worth the confusion is a question though. It also seems kinda broken with Changeling if you can get a Province into play.
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popsofctown

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 10:12:52 pm »
+1

I like OP's card
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2018, 09:54:38 pm »
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Hmmm, I almost decided this card isn't worth doing, but then I started thinking of ways to improve & simplify it. Here is a much-improved version which removes the need for Clear Skies*:

Quote
Astrologer
Cost 4 - Night - Duration
+1VP for every two victory cards you have in play (rounded up). At the start of your next turn: +1 Action.
-
While this is in play, you may play non-action victory cards as actions with "+$1".

*Which makes me wonder if I should change the name...
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 09:57:43 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Crazy Night/Victory card idea
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2018, 11:22:05 pm »
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I tried the version in the previous post in an IRL game, and it didn't work very well.
So here's very different attempt at a somewhat similar concept:

Quote
Astrologer
$4 Night - Duration
Reveal a card from your hand or discard pile and put it on top of your deck. If you revealed a victory card, +1VP and take a coin token.
At the start of your next turn, you may discard 2 cards to gain a Duchy.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2018, 11:24:24 pm by LibraryAdventurer »
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