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The Alchemist

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Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« on: October 01, 2017, 07:33:44 am »
+2

Hello! If you're like me and have always wondered what dominion would look like with a little technological advancement, this is the expansion for you! It's a large expansion that's a mix of prosperity and dark ages: 15 strong, expensive cards that puts prosperity to shame, and 15 cheap, simple, mostly trashing cards that shine in certain situations. I'm looking for help with balancing the cards and getting general feedback before I go off and print them out.

The themes for this set include new spins on the vanilla bonuses (including combinations missing from the game) and filling up the 1 and 7 coin gaps, something Don X. actually supports. This set is great for making powerful engines (it is the industrial revolution after all), and for truly massive decks. It is strongly recommended to play with colonies and plats.

With no further ado, here are the expensive cards:


Cathedral:
Continuing the theme of chapel and bishop, this card trashes and rewards your tithe in the form of coin and victory tokens. Who doesn't love tokens? Adding cantrip to watered-down bishop warrants +$2 (see bridge -> highway).
[Edit]: Changed so that you only get the VP if you trash a card. Much harder to make golden decks now. Less likely to have the game go on forever.


Town Hall:
Lots of decisions need to be made with this duration card. Gives 9 options with a mix of useful and potentially harmful. Usually nets out to a market with a discarded card so I put this at $6. $7 May be reasonable.
[Edit]: No longer forces you to choose what you didn't pick on your next turn. Now each turn is independent and tracking should be much easier.


Hospital:
One step above doctor, but one step below donate in terms of quickly getting rid of unwanted cards. Useless if drawn in your first hand, but incredibly strong in your last. $6 may be too cheap.
[Edit]: Added coppers to the list.


Observatory:
Take a look at what's coming up and set up the perfect next turn. The reverse of hospital, useless if drawn in your last and easily the strongest deck inspector in the game if drawn in your first. $7 seems balanced but I'm not sure.


Steel Foundry:
A smithy on steroids, this terminal draw is a great way to use up actions. A hunting grounds with +$1 but no trash bonus. Might need to be at $8.


Infantry:
Infiltrate your opponents hands with this attack card. A +3 card attack like torturer or rabble, where you can place unwanted cards from your hand into an opponent's. Can attack repeatedly but keeps opponent's decks at 5.
[Edit]: Changed cost to $7. Thinking about forcing the cards given to be identical to reduce the targeted nature.


Artillery:
This second attack card lets you load, aim, and fire a card out of your enemy's hand. The only discard attack that lets the attacker choose the card to discard is pillage, and such a powerful ability forces it to be a one-off. To make this balanced without having to trash itself, you must pay a vanilla bonus. You cannot give up action if you're at zero. If you choose buy and have no more +buys, you cant buy a card this turn, etc. Has the problem of targeted attack but then again so does pillage.
[Edit]: Changed to not allow gaining of victory cards. I had intended this, but just forgot to put it in.


Police Station:
Need some defense against those harsh attacks? Need to protect you stuff from criminals? Hire a police station! This reaction card discourages attack cards. Forcing a trash of the attack/reflecting the attack is considered bad design, so this gives the choice to the attacker to take a gold hit and keep their attack (The police catch the criminals and either jail them or release them on bail). Also works as an expand on any attack cards you may have. Clears attacks from both sides!
[Edit]: Changed so the reaction effect is not strictly harmful. Also a moat reaction is an option available to them. The opponents are less likely to be disincentivised to buy attack cards.


Stock Exchange:
An action-treasure like crown. This lets you trade virtual gold for any vanilla bonus you need during your action phase, and trade in any unused actions/cards for gold in your buy phase. The buy phase ability is strictly superior to both diadem and vault, thus the $9 cost. May need to be higher. For your action phase ability, you need gold from action cards in order to trade in for a vanilla bonus, no using treasures or coin tokens. The card comes with $2, so you can make a cantrip or village, but then you can't use the buy phase ability. Really strong when combined with gold from markets or peddlers.
[Edit] Reduced cost to $7 based off suggestions.


Oil Refinery:
All your action cards too complicated with all their "mechanics" and "words" and what not? Well refine them into plain ol' vanilla cards instead! Turn your 10 native villages into regular, normal, not-a-novel-of-a-description villages! Or peddler variants, or even labs (easily the strongest option)! This card is unique in giving a choice that doesn't need to be unique. Choose +3 cards, or $3, or +1 action and +2 buys if that's your thing. This is probably the most likely to be broken. It was too weak to have effect on only one card, and having the choices be different is restrictive when you pick 3 out of 4. I may just have to go with the latter though if it's too strong.
[Edit]: Reduced cost to $8 as per suggested.


Factory:
The next advancement on Laboratory, this "power card of epic proportions that probably shouldn't exist at any cost" should be balanced at $9. I find it hard to believe that this card is not possible to be balanced, especially with things like kings court smithy and city quarter.
[Edit]: Changed from $7 to $9.


Supermarket:
The next logical step up from grand market. The +$1 combined with +1 buy warrants an increase of $4 from grand market, but the drawback of no silvers brings the total down to $9.
[Edit] Changed +1 Card to +1 Buy.


Public School:
Let your cards edumacate themselves and lern to be gooder. Give your baker a degree and turn them into a lab assistant! Or have your lowly herbalist follow their dreams and become a market or something. The natural extension to teacher. Exact same effect but without needed 5 reshuffles. Turning one of the two strongest cards in the came (along with champion) into a card you can buy right away rightly deserves the high cost of $10, maybe even more?
[Edit] Reduced cost to $9 based off suggestion. I felt that teacher was such a good card it was a shame no other cards besides events had the ability. I really like this card, even if only to increase the likelihood of getting to use +1 bonus tokens in a game.


Metropolis:
And lastly the pièce de résistance: metropolis. From lowly hamlet, to village, to city, then metropolis. Its vanilla bonuses are exactly that of a fully leveled up city, but with a duchy added in because why not? A metropolitan area is practically a duchy. The vanilla bonuses alone are worth $8, so it is probably undervalued at $10, but it didnt make sense to make it more than a colony at $12 or $13, but I'd like to hear your opinions.
[Edit] Changed from 3 VP to 1 VP as 10 was too cheap for 3.


Theatre:
Hate it when you have the perfect kingdom for an engine but there are no sticking +buys! Or when its a kingdom of 10 great cards but not a single non-terminal to be found. Or maybe you just really hate the sight of estates and hate that there aren't more trashing cards in the game? Well this is card for you. Alone it's worthless, a cantrip costing $2. But the worse the kingdom is, the better it gets. The actors play the part of whatever is you're missing to get your strategy off the ground. No handsize increasers? This cards is a basic lab costing $5. No villages? this card becomes a vanilla village at $3. It can be a worker's village at $4, and a junk dealer without the $1 at $4. Only when your kingdom is missing literally everything is this card an insanely strong $9 card.

Cheap cards:


Salesman:
The buy equivalent of Hireling. Used the price difference of Seaway -> Pathfinder to price this at $3.


Worker:
When using pawn, usually the best bet is +1 card +$1. This card gives that for half the price, and is good in decks with excess actions. Just a reminder that this and the other $1 cards in this set are pretty weak on their own. But with the extra buys from other cards, these cheap cards help you to make really big decks of mostly actions. Great for gardens, scrying pool, or champion games. I know a lot of these cards are "boring vanilla cards", but I actually like vanilla cards and think there should be more in the game.


Market Stall:
Some extra buys to help ease off the burden of buying these cheap cards. This should technically be priced at $2 but more than one buy is rarely useful, except in this set.


Furnace:
Pretty self explanatory. Burn a card in the furnace to give you more cards to keep your engine going. This might be better of costing $2.


Landfill:
Put something in the dump, get something out. Really simple card to turn your curses into coppers or estates into lighthouses.


Plot of Land:
Yes, I wanted there to be a card that was just a cantrip. There are many instances where this could be useful. But if you change your mind you chapel 4 of these and deplete the Lab pile. I really don't like the picture on this one but it was the best I could find. Funnily enough, finding a good picture of nothing is harder than it sounds. If you have a better one in mind please send it my way.


Sewer:
The worst sifting card in the game, but hey it only costs $2. This is the Lab -> Smithy equivalent of warehouse.
[Edit]: This card was +2 cards, discard a card at $1, but I agree that was way too weak.


Bank Note:
This is just an action version of silver. It is cheaper because it can be terminally drawn unlike silver, plus delve already showed that getting a silver at $2 isn't game breaking. This is useful in scrying pool games, games with treasure attacks, or any other game where you just dont want your deck cluttered with treasures. It especially combos well with my Stock Exchange (coincidence? nope.)


Statue:
A weaker version of monument. While it can lead to endless games, some hard trashing is needed to pull this off, and even then a max of 5 of these can be played. Compare to the Bishop/Fortress golden deck where you can get 12 VP per turn.


Coal:
Modified version of Encampment from the Strife fan expansion: http://www.nosro.net/games/dominion/strife/list.php#encampment
As there's now a real card named encampment, and to fit in with the theme of this expansion, I changed the name and picture. The idea is the same, burn up this card for a temporary bonus.


Slums:
The next step up from Necropolis. I want this a card because it just works for thematic reasons, and because it kinda works with 3 workers. Thats a gold and +3 cards right there, albeit for 4 cards.


General Store:
Want to buy 3 workers? Or how about a market stall and two coppers? This card will help you hoard up on cheap cards for whatever strategy calls it (looking at you gardens).
[Edit]: I changed the wording to "up to 3 cards", so you aren't forced to buy $0 cards if you get a $3 one.


Reforge:
Gain 1 coin token for copper, 5 for plat, etc. Weaker version of moneylender on all treasures, except its coin tokens so that's nice. Potentially game changing if you trash up all your treasures and end with a megaturn.



The following are versions of cards from Auto-Destruct Sequence (http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=3984). I really like his cards and they fit so well in my set I just had to include them.


Boom Town:
I really like this card, but it was too weak on its own. I think setting the price at 2 fixes it nicely. Also changed the wording to be more clear.


Demolish:
I just modified the formatting and image of this one.

These following ones I didn't modify, they were already perfect. I am just reposting them here because I intend to print them along with my own.


« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 03:51:33 am by The Alchemist »
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2017, 08:17:44 am »
+2

Hi! Welcome to the forums! I see you've found the card image generator, but I would also suggest reading the card creation guide.

Cathedral: This leads to stalemate games where nobody wants to end the game, just play cathedrals for infinite tokens.

Infantry: This is probably overpowered at , with smithy, attack, and trashing.

Town Hall: Probably works, but wayyy too much AP. Also tracking issues, playing several of these in a turn would be a real headache.

Hospital: This is definitely overpriced. It can't trash Coppers, so it will only trash 3 cards most game, and they need to be in the discard pile, and then it becomes dead. This could probably cost or less.

Observatory: I prefer 461.weavile's Battle Strategy, which does roughly the same effect as a event, but limits it to 4 cards. That might be too powerful at the cost, but it isn't as swingy with shuffles and powerful with choosing 4 cards.

Factory: Nope, nope, nope. Donald has tried this at many different prices, , 10, and it was too powerful for all of them. It's not worth trying again.

Steel Foundry: Terminal cards and is generally really good, so this could probably cost more. In the end, I don't think it's fun.

Artillery: Your description is weird, I think you meant to give it +1 Action. This attack is probably annoying and swingy.

Police Station: Does nothing without attacks. Also "Reactions that hurt the attackers" is a really bad idea, you can read it in the aforementioned fan card guide.

Supermarket: Wow, um.  I don't know. You do seem overly confident on the price, math in dominion isn't that simple. I don't like this card on the concept though.

Oil Refinery: This is an interesting card. I don't know about the cost, but it one of my favourites in this set.

Theatere: Maybe too much, I would drop the drawing part. Also, it can easily get annoying with definitions about what gives +2 Actions or +1 Buy. Pedantry: It's recursive, so it will trigger itself.

Stock Market: This is needlessly complicated.

Public School: Why do we need a Teacher supply pile?

Metropolis:
I don't think this card would work at any cost, at it's too good for sure.
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josh56

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2017, 08:19:02 am »
0

Cathedral is something you should never ever do as you could build a golden deck with only Cathedrals. Note that Groundkeeper is tied to greening.

The notion that Factory is "quite balanced" (how much did you test it?) seems dubious to me. We know from the playtesting of Empire that this very card at a high Debt cost did not work (but that may have had to do with the Debt cost).
Police Station is a Reaction that attacks. Another big no-no.

Supermarket is a Grand Market plus Lab plus Peddler for a mere $9 and thus too cheap (or, as increasing the costs is not something you really want, too powerful). Lab plus Grand Market would probably already be too strong at 9 (just think about how often you'd but this over Platinum).

Metropolis: Village, Lab, Market and Duchy baked into one card in the hope that it will work? Unless there is heavy junking everybody will aim for Metropolises, they are brilliant engine pieces and decent green at the same time.
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2017, 09:29:08 pm »
+2

Cathedral: As josh and thetasigma said, this is a major fan-card taboo, as it discourages ending the game.

Infantry: The problem is that the first attack option (give them a card from your hand) is basically a targeted attack, since you can't necessarily give everybody copies of that same card. Targeted attacks are also a big non-no for making fan-cards. You can read about why in the guide that thetasigma mentioned.

Town Hall: This is nearly impossible to track with one played in a given turn, let alone multiple. 3 of the 8 options are also drawbacks, and since you get all 8 eventually, I'd say this is actually worse than Market, although it's still definitely too strong to cost < $5.

Hospital: Hospital is definitely overpriced. It's dead if you draw it with no discard pile, and it doesn't let you trash Coppers. It shouldn't even cost $5+, let alone $6.

Observatory: Virtually lets you choose your next turn. It's pretty good. I'd price it slightly higher at $8 rather than $7, though.

Factory: Donald has playtested this same card with higher costs and it was still too strong. Not too mention that it is exactly twice the strength of a Lab, which is an already-powerful $5 cost card. And none of the official $7 cost cards are twice-as-powerful versions of $5 cost cards. I very much disagree with your "quite balanced at $7" statement.

Steel Factory: I think that $7 is a fine cost for it. I definitely wouldn't buy it over a Province.

Artillery: Your description says "if you chose to give up action, this becomes terminal." As written, however, this is already terminal, so I think you made a typo. Aside from that, it is way too swingy. If anybody reveals a Province, you can copy it, gaining 6 points essentially for free. It also has a targeted attack problem similar to, albeit less severe than, Infantry.

Police Station: This does nothing unless you happen to be playing a set that contains Attack cards. Requiring triggers that the card can't self-fulfill is another big no-no. It also attacks people who attack you, which is, you guessed it, another taboo. Buying these will discourage others from buying Attacks, which, in return, discourages buying Police Stations, so in a worst-case situation, nobody buys either card/card type. This problem is further exacerbated by its debt cost making it possible to buy on the very first turn no matter what.

Supermarket: The problem with the math you used to calculate its cost is that vanilla bonuses are non-linear in nature. That is, the difference between +$2 and +$3 is larger, in terms of strength, than the difference between +$1 and +$2, for example. Because of this, simply using math to calculate the optimal price of your card is more complicated than one would think. In reality, Supermarket is likely $9-cost power level even without the extra +1 card, even with the drawback.

Oil Refinery: I honestly think that this one is probably too weak for its cost. I couldn't see myself ever buying this over Platinum. I could see myself buying it at $8, though.

Theatre: IMO, this is one of the most interesting fan-cards I've ever seen. I definitely give this one the Gubump Seal of Approval. That last paragraph, however (the one about the cost calculations) should go under a dividing line a-la Peddler, since it happens with different timing than everything else. Other than that minor thing, absolutely fantastic job on this one. The art is perfect as well.

Stock Exchange: The two options for it (Action vs. Treasure) don't feel like they're connected in any way, and feel like they belong on separate cards instead of just being needlessly smushed together on one card. The other problem is that it's way too weak at a whopping $9. The 2nd option is not strictly better than Vault because it doesn't involve drawing any cards, which is about 80% of where Vault's power comes from (look at Secret Chamber). Diadem, which it is actually strictly better than, is widely considered to be the weakest of the Prizes. If it weren't for the Diadem option, the Buy phase ability would be a $3 cost ability, IMO. Because of the Diadem option, however, I'd price the Buy phase ability at $5 if it were its own card. If the Action phase ability was on a Treasure card, then I'd price it at $7, since you'd have a chance to play your other treasures first. Since it's Action-phase only, however, it isn't too much stronger than a Pawn, so I'd price it at $4 if it were its own card. If you insist on the mish-mash, however, I would price this card at $7 overall. And $7 to $9 is a BIG difference.

Public School: Once again, I don't see myself buying this over Platinum. There's another problem: There isn't much reason to get more than one of them. Although I say the same thing about Chapel, which is still a God-tier card, so it's a minor issue.

Metropolis: Ooh, boy. As you said yourself, the vanilla bonuses alone are worth $8, which is something with which I couldn't agree more. However, it is definitely too strong for just $10. Compare it to Nobles. It's about the same strength as both options combined, and is worth more VP. I would price a 3 VP Nobles alone at $8. When you compare Metropolis to that, it becomes quite clear that only $10 is ridiculous. This is a $12 cost card, at the very least. Wouldn't buy it over Dominate, though, so the $12 or $13 you think didn't make sense is actually right on the mark.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 05:41:16 pm by Gubump »
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The Alchemist

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2017, 05:45:46 am »
+1

Thank you all for your feedback! I am remaking the cards to fit your guys' advice. (By the way, I'm make them in photoshop not with the online editor, that's just where I took the templates from). I'm new, what's the etiquette for changing a post? Should it just edit the op, put a reply, or start a new post? I'd like the updated cards to be in the op but that makes the first few comments confusing. Is starting a new topic for the samr thing considered spammy?
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Awaclus

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2017, 06:06:31 am »
+1

Thank you all for your feedback! I am remaking the cards to fit your guys' advice. (By the way, I'm make them in photoshop not with the online editor, that's just where I took the templates from). I'm new, what's the etiquette for changing a post? Should it just edit the op, put a reply, or start a new post? I'd like the updated cards to be in the op but that makes the first few comments confusing. Is starting a new topic for the samr thing considered spammy?

Editing the OP is fine. If you want to make it less confusing, you can write "updated 2017-10-02" or something for the cards that you've updated so that people will realize that the first replies were talking about an older version. Starting a new topic is pretty spammy and just posting the new versions in a reply isn't great because random people who just browse for fan cards might only look at the OP.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 06:08:14 am by Awaclus »
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2017, 08:45:17 am »
+1

Yeah, just edit the OP. In my experience, people either comment on the OP or the very last replies, so there's no damage doing it and many people will just read the OP. I agree to basically all my predecessors wrote, especially Police Station and Cathedral. I actually tried myself at making the "Reflection Reaction" thing work very recently, by it not being a Reaction but instead an attack that hurt more if the attacker had been hit by an attack before themselves. That wasn't fun. The concept just isn't.

ThetaSigma12

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2017, 05:33:59 pm »
0

Well, here's my thoughts on the cheap cards. All in all most of them are bland combinations for that really don't seem like they need to exist. We already have a lot of vanilla cards, and man, do we need more? Most of these could probably cost and be fine. The cost is just kinda gimmicky. Here are a few card specific problems:

Worker:
Terminal +1 Card is a bad idea. There's a quote from Donald X. about it somewhere. But other than Ruined Library which is meant to suck, it hasn't appeared anywhere for good reason.

Boom Town: I believe this is the 3rd rendition of the card, taken from Auto-Destruct-Sequence who took it from the Prosperity design contest. You linked to the thread so you can read all the complaints with the idea and I don't think your version fixes anything.

Banknote: This is Action-Silver which should probably cost , and then is too bland. We have silver, we don't need vanilla action-silver.

Reforge: Treasures don't have value until played, so it should read: "You may play a Treasure from your hand to pay all the it produced and trash it. If you did, take a Coin token per paid." It's wordy, maybe it can be improved upon by someone else?

General Store: I think this should gain 3 differently named cards. With cantrips like Merchant that you want to load up on this can be a powerhouse. With that restriction it seems interesting, if not a tad weak.

Plot of Land: In games with no trashing this does nothing other than a cantrip. I see no reason for this card to exist as-is, but if you remade it similar to Kru5h's Dagger where it has a trashing benefit instead of the Cantrip, maybe?

Slums: No need to step on Crossroad's toes with this card. With Bustling Village and Port, I would cut this.

Statue: Has the same problem of Cathedral, stalemate games.


The rest are just boring vanilla cards that should cost or more instead of . I would try to keep the general boni, but rework it to make it more unique. All that being said, Coal and Salesman seem like nice cards.
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Fragasnap

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 07:14:15 pm »
+2

Quote
Infantry
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $6
+3 Cards. Each other player discards a card. You may put into their hands a card from yours, or a Copper, your choice.
Copper junking is not generally a very good idea because of how the Copper pile doesn't scale very well based upon the number of players.
Further, this card scales pretty poorly based upon the number of players since you may be able to trash up to 3 cards or as few as 1 card. An effect like Ambassador (return cards to the Supply to give out copies) would be preferred.

Quote
Town Hall
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $6
Choose four: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1; or discard the top card of your deck; or put a card from your hand on top of your deck; or trash a card from your hand; or gain a Copper, putting it into your hand. At the start of your next turn, do the other four.
Emphasis on the huge tracking issues. If you want an effect like this, I would recommend a simple choice between Action effects or a singular Duration effect so that a Town Hall that stays in play won't have to be tracked since it can only be there for one reason.

Quote
Hospital
Types: Action
Cost: $6
Look through your discard pile and trash any number of Curses, Ruins, Shelters, or Victory cards from it.
While I agree it is overpriced, I think most players underestimate how good searching trashing like this is in slower games. I think it would be fine if it trashed any 2 cards from the discard pile, though would test it at $5 first since $6+ trashers generally have a hard time.

Quote
Observatory
Types: Action
Cost: $7
Look through your deck, set aside up to 5 cards from it, shuffle your deck, and then put the set aside cards on top of your deck in any order.
I don't think this is overpowered as it has the issue of needing cards to be in the deck versus your discard pile. Getting to setup your engine from whatever is left in your deck (or setup a Province next turn) is probably fairly weak since it implies that your deck didn't go off this turn. The problem I have is that this is an Action card that requires you to shuffle your deck which slows the game down, even if it costs $7.
Making it an expensive Event would be preferred because then it is difficult to use since you have to constantly set $ and +Buys aside for it.

Quote
Steel Foundry
Types: Action
Cost: $7
+4 Cards, +$1.
While I don't think that this is overpowered, it is not a very "$7" effect. All the $7 cards that currently exist read very "wow."
King's Court says you play another actions thrice: Wowie. Forge says you can trash any number of cards on top of another effect: Woo. Bank gives you a nearly limitless amount of $: Amazing.
Steel Foundry draws a couple more cards than Smithy. Ho hum.
King's Court I think already covers the super-Smithy thing (because King's Court plays best with other cards that draw cards), but if you really wanted something more explicitly based on draw, I'd look to something like a big Courtyard or Embassy before a slightly larger Smithy.

Quote
Artillery
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $7
+1 Action. Each other player reveals their hand. You may pay 1 Action, pay 1 Buy, pay $1, or discard a card. If you do, each other player with at least 5 cards in hand discards a card of your choice. Gain a copy of a discarded card.
I think Pillage covers the concept of "Look into a player's hand and slap out the most important card" in the most fun way possible by being difficult to repeat and practically self-clogging (even if Spoils are decent cards).
Ignoring that, playing this to gain a Province is stupidly good, though I'm not sure if that is intentional or not.

Suggested wording:
Quote
Oil Refinery
Types: Action
Cost: $8
Do this three times: Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1.
Then you may reveal an Action from your hand. If you do, each copy you play this turn gives you the same three choices instead of following its instructions.

Quote
Theatre
Types: Action
Cost: $2*
+1 Card, +1 Action. If there are no other Supply piles that... give +2 Cards: +1 Card; give +2 Actions: +1 Action; give +1 Buy: +1 Buy; trash your own cards: You may trash a card from your hand.
This costs $3/$1/$1/$2 more for each case above respectively.
I don't like Theatre in a real-world context because it is so complicated to resolve--especially for non-experts.
You and I could say: It's Village this game. And remember what that means, but others won't have it so easy.

Quote
Stock Exchange
Types: Action, Treasure
Cost: $9
If it's your Action phase: +$2 and then spend any amount of $. For each $ spent, choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy.
If it's your buy phase, choose one: +$1 per unused Action you have; or discard any number of cards and +$1 per card discarded.
The Action phase effect is a slightly better Pawn. The Treasure effects are a worse Diadem and a slightly better Secret Chamber (the latter so bad it was cut from the game).
I would probably only buy this if it cost $2. Mini-Diadem or awful Splitter are the only vaguely useful parts of it without other elements working really hard to enable it.

Quote
Public School
Types: Action
Cost: $10
You may move your +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy, or +$1 token to an Action Supply pile you have no tokens on.
I echo the sentiment that Teacher doesn't need to be a Kingdom card. Teacher is further more interesting for being a card that sits in wait on your Tavern mat and can be called at a moment's notice for clutch late-game plays.

Quote
Worker
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+1 Card, +$1.
Worker is a Peddler with a draw-back, the draw-back being that it isn't really a Peddler because it's terminal. If you want this to work, I think it needs to be paired with an optional top-deck so when it draws something dead you can put it back instead (or just use it for money-smoothing). $1-cost is weird for the sake of being weird, but at a cost of $2 it will look pretty awful in comparison to Pawn and Courtyard.

Quote
Coal
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Card, +1 Action. You may trash this. If you do, choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1.
This one sounds fine to me. It needs a different name than Coal because it sounds like a Treasure. You could try Colliery (being a Coal-mine), but that might draw images of Mine instead.

Quote
Boom Town
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+2 Actions.
If Boom Town is in play...2 or more times: +1 Card; 3 or more times: +1 Buy; 4 or more times: +$1; 5 or more times: +1VP
This has the same issue as Cathedral: +VP needs a good way to encourage ending the game.

Quote
Banknote
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action, +$2
A card that gives +1 or more Actions and +$ is effectively a Treasure. Of course you can draw it dead, but that is easy to build around. That means Banknote is practically a Silver. It is generally accepted that the consideration of Silver is a fun part of Dominion that should generally not be supplanted by having cards that are Silver at $4 or less.
Plus Banknote sounds like it should be a Treasure.

Suggestion:
Quote
Reforge
Types: Action
Cost: $3
Play and then trash a Treasure from your hand. Then pay all of your $ and take a Coin token per $1 you paid.

Quote
General Story
Types: Action
Cost: $2
Gain 3 cards all together costing exactly $3.
The wording is a little confusing. Do you mean "Gain 3 cards with a total cost of exactly $3"? I assume so. It is astoundingly weak. Without $1 cards (and those are uncommon, even accounting for the couple you have), it will always be a $3 card and two Coppers.

Quote
Salesman
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $3
At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game: +1 Buy.
I think this one will be fine.

Quote
Plot of Land
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+1 Card, +1 Action
When you trash this, gain a card costing up to $5.
Not very interesting.

Quote
Furnace
Types: Action
Cost: $1
Trash a card from your hand. If you do: +2 Cards.
Should probably cost $2. The draw doesn't need to be conditional.

Suggestion:
Quote
Landfill
Types: Action
Cost: $1
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, gain a card costing less than it. You may trash this.

Quote
Market Stall
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+1 Action, +2 Buys.
Should probably cost $2.

Quote
Sewer
Types: Action
Cost: $1
+2 Cards. Discard a card.
Super weak. I don't like it.

Quote
Slums
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+3 Actions
Having played with a card very much like this before, it is frustrating. I think it needs something else going on to make the +3 Actions less the focal point of the card since it is so feast-or-famine.

Quote
Statue
Types: Action
Cost: $2
+1 Action, +1VP
Same issue as Cathedral. There isn't much of a reason to do anything other than gain +3VP to +4VP per turn by piling the Statues as fast as possible.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2017, 11:11:44 am »
0

I think Banknote can cost 2$, because you can draw it dead. Draw-to-X and cards that interact with Action cards aside, this makes it worse than Silver. However, I share the concern that it's too bland. However, it seems fine to put this as the Action part of a more expensive Reaction, for example.

GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2017, 05:29:00 pm »
+1

Aside from the possible stalemate issue with Cathedral, is just seems crazy powerful. Looking at Junk Dealer, which is a pretty powerful ... this gives a coin token instead of , AND gives a ... all for a cost increase from to . Also, the trashing is optional, not mandatory, so it's safer than Junk Dealer.

However, it's worth noting that a stalemate isn't that simple, due to the fact that you only get the if you trash a card. So you can't just build a deck with a bunch of these; soon you'll be down to just 1 card... and 1 VP per turn isn't great. But when combined with something like King's Court, you could build something better.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2017, 05:31:16 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2017, 05:42:12 pm »
+1

Reserve's wording doesn't work with Dominion rules.

You don't spend treasure cards in buys. When you play a treasure card, it produces (usually), and then you can spend that . Cards don't get spent. I'm not actually sure of your intention, but if I'm guessing right, then what you want here is a reserve card, similar to Coin Of The Realm (and the name should be changed because Reserve is a card type).

[Card name] - Treasure-Reserve :


When you play this, put it on your Tavern mat.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the start of your buy phase, or immediately after you finish playing a treasure card, you may call this, for +.


Allowing you to call it at the start of your buy phase OR after playing a treasure allows it to be called immediately after playing it, or during a future buy phase even if you don't have other treasures in hand.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 12:03:27 pm »
0

Hi and welcome to the forum! You got some pretty cool ideas and I'd like to play with some of these cards. Until then, these are my first impressions:

Cathedral: Seems weird to me that Cathedral, of all things, is one of the cheapest among your expensive cards  ;D This might compare a little too favourably to Junk Dealer, an already strong $5-card. There's not a huge cost gap between $5 and $6 so I feel like the coin token and +VP warrant a cost of $7.

Town Hall: I like it. Hard to say if it's balanced. I feel like the Copper should go to your discard pile, otherwise picking Copper becomes too automatic with hand-trashers, especially if they also give a benefit for trashing. And if you keep your Coppers, this plays like a double Grand Market (because you gain a net +$1 to your current hand) which seems utterly broken for $6. The Copper really shouldn't go into your hand.

Hospital: It looks balanced but I don't like how much it depends on shuffle luck for its cost. I guess that's the idea, though.

Observatory: I like the effect but it's again extremely dependent on shuffle luck and not very useful in deck-drawing engines (which you try to achieve in most games). In decks that aren't filled with junk, it doesn't compare too well to Cartographer, which already has a high opportunity cost. I'd slap +1 Action on it or reduce the cost to $5.

Steel Foundry: Like you said, might want to cost $8. Anyway, it's unexciting. I'd very much welcome an additional clause on it. How about an on-gain penalty, since it might be too cheap otherwise?

Infantry: I like this more than Masquerade, mechanically. It obviously works best in two-player games but giving your opponents Coppers to hand is fine. However, in a vacuum, this seems equally as strong as Witch, Torturer and Margrave. So why doesn't it cost $5?

Artillery: Nice idea! But an attack this harsh, with a benefit on top, should really have a significant drawback, which discarding a card isn't. That would often be the easiest choice, and I feel like there should be no easy choice. Paying $1 also often won't feel like a sacrifice when it's possible. Let the attacker only choose between paying 1 action or 1 buy so it actually hurts them. Also saves a line of text, which this card wants.

Police Station: This does so much and I like it in theory! Let's start with talking about its cost; The reaction is powerful so it has to be expensive but you also want defensive cards to be easily accessible so I like your choice of a high debt cost here. You can use it like a Watchtower that doesn't need to be in your hand when you are junked. Unfortunately, trashing the "last card you gained" has unsolvable tracking issues (e.g. when you shuffle the gained cards into your deck). It Expands attack cards but that seems too specific and means Police Station is a dead card in Kingdoms without attacks. Lastly, I think the reaction gives the attacker too many choices; two are plenty. I'd scratch the Moat part. I know why you put it there but it's boring and adds more text to an already complex and wordy card. I'm fine with the other two choices.

Stock Exchange: This card makes my head hurt. It has so much stuff going on, converts $ in things, or other things in $, and can be played as Action or Treasure which makes it extra complicated. And all of it doesn't even seem that powerful. Is it really even worth $7? Maybe, when I compare it to Bank which sometimes isn't even worth buying but when it's good it needs to cost $7, Stock Exchange seems to be like that.

Oil Refinery: I like it and want to play with it. Otherwise I can't say if that's balanced. As with most (of your) cards, it seems to depend strongly on the board. The picture shows Oil Rigs which bothers me a bit. Would you consider renaming it to Oil Rig or picking an image of an actualy refinery?

Factory: This is so vanilla! Please put something additional on it. Undercosted, powerful cards with on-gain penalties, for example, are much more interesting than plain powerful cards.

Supermarket: Yeah, kind of the same here, although in this case I especially like the redundancy with Grand Market.

Public School: There's a reason DXV didn't make Teacher's effect so trivial. Nonetheless, with its insane cost, Public School might play a role similar to Prince's - you delay buying a Province to gain a very slow card that, once played, grants you a significant bonus for the rest of the game. Prince has two important restrictions, though; it’s a one shot and you can’t normally use it with cards costing more than $5. Public School should be limited to cards costing up to $4 as well, to be more in line with Prince.

Metropolis: It seems like your most balanced cards are also your most uninteresting ones – a shame.

Theatre: I like the idea but it probably needs lots and lots of play-testing and fine-tuning. I’d change the wording of the conditional clause to “If there are no cards in the Supply that…” to avoid confusion with split and mixed piles.

Hope this helps. I'll talk about the cheap cards later.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 05:22:14 am by Co0kieL0rd »
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Gubump

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2017, 07:00:39 pm »
+1

Finally getting around to giving feedback on the updated cards, as well as the new cards.

Cathedral: I know this is nitpicky, but most of us are nitpicky: The "coin" in "coin token" should be capitalized. I also think that getting a Coin token as well as +1 VP is overkill for costing $6. I think that it should either cost $7, or taking a Coin token should be replaced with just getting +$1.

Town Hall: Gaining a Copper to your hand is almost always the right choice to make, both turns, since it helps you for the current turn. I think that the Copper should just be gained normally, instead of to your hand. Especially since it can also give you +$1, so it can effectively give you +1 Card, +1 Action, and +$2 for two turns, with the measly drawback that that would give you two Coppers. That's a $10-cost effect, I'd say.

Hospital: Still far too weak. Just buying Donate is a better choice about 99.999999% of the time, especially since you can always buy Donate (provided you don't already have debt). Even with Coppers included, I still wouldn't price it at $5 or higher.

Observatory: Even though I earlier said that it should cost $8, I actually agree with you now that $7 seems balanced, since it gives you no benefit the turn you played it and is severely nerfed by the fact that it needs to be drawn when most of your cards are still in your deck.

Infantry: In order to reduce the targeted nature of the attack, I would recommend replacing the attack with: "Choose one: Each other player gains a Copper into their hand; or return a card from your hand to the Supply. Each other players gains a copy of the returned card into their hand."

Artillery: Since you have to pay limited resources in order to make it attack, it has the targeted attack problem to a much higher degree than Pillage. For the same reason, it also has the problem that it scales terribly with the number of players; you only have to pay 1 resource to attack everybody else in a 2 player game, but you have to pay 3 of them to attack everybody else in a 4 player game. Unless I'm misunderstanding it and you only have to pay once and it'll attack everybody, in which case I would recommend the following wording: "Each other player reveals their hand. You may pay 1 Action, 1 Buy, $1, or discard a card from your hand. If you do, each other player with 5 or more cards in hand discards a card of your choice from their hand. Gain a copy of a non-Victory card discarded this way."

Police Station: It's still completely underpowered in the absence of Attack cards. It also has another problem I didn't notice before, which is that the reaction effect stacks. There isn't a limit to how many times you can reveal the same Reaction card when it triggers. In other words, you can just keep revealing the Police Station over and over again to delay the game until the Attacker chooses the option you want them to choose, but other options they chose still take effect. You can read more about it in the Fan Card Creation Guide.

Public School: Typo: I don't think you meant to say "Supply pile you have no coin tokens on." Also, a problem I have with this is that it does pretty much the same thing as Teacher, but faster (since you don't have to wait a turn to use it), so there isn't much point in progressing to Teacher when you already bought this, but there also isn't much point in getting this if you already have a Teacher by the time you can afford this. I don't think this should exist at any cost.

Theatre: After thinking some about this card, I realized that it isn't as amazing as I thought it was earlier. First of all, there isn't really a solid definition of what counts as "giving +2 Cards," for example. What if I have my +Action token on Village? Does that count as a Supply pile that gives +Cards now? What about Cellar? I get +2 Cards if I discard 2 cards, but does that count? Also, Theatre is paradoxical, so it should say "if there are no Supply piles other than this one" because as written, if there are no Supply piles that give +2 Actions, then Theatre itself becomes a card that gives +2 Actions, so there is a Supply pile that gives +2 Actions, so Theatre doesn't give +2 Actions anymore, but then there are no Supply piles that give +2 Actions, ad infinitum, and we have a paradox on our hands.

Salesman: While I disagree with how to came to the conclusion that this should cost $3, I do agree with that conclusion. That logic doesn't always work, however. For example, using the same logic, a card that gave +1 Action every turn would cost $4, but that would make this hypothetical card way too spammable, and it would be very easy to make it so that you can buy all the terminal cards you want without needing to worry about not having enough actions in a turn to use all of them.

Worker: The problem with this cards is, how high a percentage of your hands do you suppose you have exactly $1? The answer is probably somewhere between 0 and 0.000001%. Since you said yourself that it's strictly worse than an existing $2 cost card, that means that you'll buy this between 0 and 0.000001% of the time.

Market Stall: Problem is, by the time you need multiple buys, you'll very likely have enough cash to buy a better +Buy card. You also very rarely need +2 Buys from a single Action. There's a reason that no official card has ever given multiple buys.

Furnace: I agree that this is too strong for $1. Low-cost cards (and even some high-cost cards; look at Junk Dealer) often treat even mandatory trashing as a bonus, not a drawback. This is because when you're buying cheap cards like this, that likely means that it's early enough in the game that you'll be trashing Coppers and Estates left-and-right. I think this would be balanced at $3.

Landfill: One of the best $1-cost cards I've seen. I think it might be more interesting if it cost $2, though, so that you could buy more than one to transform your Estates faster, and then transform your Landfills after you've run out of use for them.

Plot of Land: Completely useless when there are no Throne Room variants or trashing cards in the Supply. I don't think this should exist.

Banknote: I don't see any point in making an Action version of an existing Treasure card. This is one of the most boring concepts I've seen.

Statue: Has the same problem the original version of Cathedral had, although less severe. Kind of like how touching a cactus is less painful than punching one, less bad does not mean good.

Coal: Unfortunately, you lose cool points in my book because this is literally somebody else's idea. At least you gave them credit. I still like the idea, but that's a point in nosro's favor, not yours. Coal does make more sense as a name for it, though, so you do still get some cool points.

General Store: I do like how this synergizes with the $1-cost cards. I think it should be up to $3, though, so that you don't need to have $1-cost cards for this to be more useful than "gain a card costing exactly $3," which is how it'll be played 99% of the time.

Reforge: What if you trash Treasures with variable $ values, such as Bank or Philosopher's Stone? How do you determine how much $ it gives? Also, the number of Coin tokens it gives this gives you would technically always be 0, because Treasures don't give $ until they're played.

Boom Town, Demolish, Pauper, Reserve, Refund, and Flea Market: Same point as Coal.

Overall Set: There are no $5 cost cards at all, and only 1 $4 cost card. This leaves a huge gap in costs for the most part. This set would be much better if there was a wider range of prices than really high and really low.
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The Alchemist

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2017, 05:06:30 am »
0

@Gubump
Thanks for the feedback, I will make corrections to the cards you suggested. The point of $1 cards is not to get them with hands where you have $1, but so you can buy 4 or 5 of them on one turn, increasing their strength. This is why market stall has +2 buys, and why I have Salesman. Since sets are meant to be playable standalone without others, you can imagine setting up games with large numbers of weak cards that together become strong. For example, with Public School, you can "educate" workers with +1 Action and now you have 5 peddlers easily.

As for Bank Note, I think you missed the huge synergy potential. Dominion needs this card above all others. An action version of a treasure card is super useful because you can play it on your action phase! That means that with Tactician, you can have enough money to buy a card and have no problem with discarding your hand, and hence play Tactician every turn. It means you dont have to worry about playing against pirate ship, or thief, or other treasure-trashers since you have no treasures to trash! And like I stated, it makes scrying pool super good since you can draw your entire deck with 1 card and have money to pay for cards! It's my favorite card of the cheap ones, save for Salesman.
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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 04:05:11 pm »
+1

Okay so this is a super long post so apologies in advance for any typos that slipped through.

Cathedral: This is crazy strong! It's just a much better Junk Dealer- I have a suggestion to make something more interesting which I'll get to in a minute.

Town Hall: I don't understand the discard the top card of your deck option, I feel like it's supposed to be a drawback but it isn't- it just cycles you a bit. But more importantly this is just too many options, especially for a non-terminal.

Hospital: Okay so I like the idea of another card that can trash from discard but I have a few problems with this. Why can't it just trash any cards? I don't see the point of listing all the different varieties of junk. Mainly though I just see this leading to miserable games that come entirely down to who draws their Hospital at the bottom of their shuffle. To combat this I suggest letting this trash from hand and discard and putting a limit on how much it can trash.

Observatory: Am I missing something or is this card just terrible? I can't envision a situation where spending a $7 buy and playing a do nothing terminal is worth reordering your deck a bit, it doesn't provide any economy or even cycle you at all.

Steel Foundry: Hunting Grounds isn't the most logical Training target but this is probably balanced, I have a soft spot for big terminal draw even if the +$1 is a bit strange.

Infantry: So this is a big Masquerade Ambassador crossover thing with issues in multiplayer. I suggest making this more like Ambassador and returning cards to the supply and then gaining them to opponents hands to get rid of the multiplayer issues. Aside from that this is terminal draw, a thinner, hand attack and a junking attack in one. It's a hellish concoction of all the most powerful abilities in dominion and is easily the most powerful card in the set, could/should be more expensive.

Artillery: I can't see a non-oneshot Pillage leading to fun times. The drawback is also way too flexible, + buys are often a non-issue and the discard a card option is never too bad because this gives +1 Card. I'm assuming you don't intent to have to pay separately for each opponent in multiplayer because that introduces politics. Oh and this gains a card too? I think this needs to discard your hand to be close to fair.

Police Station: I think others have pointed out the problems with this- it does close to nothing on a board with no attacks and you can reveal this infinitely to one attack. Also the reaction on this is a lot of words and in the end it's just a Moat reaction that gives your opponent a choice- so it's strictly worse than Moat's which doesn't seem worth all the text.

Stock Exchange: So the top part is a Pawn that can choose the same option more than once and combines with your existing money and the bottom is a bad Diadem or a treasure Secret Chamber. Why are there 3 relatively complex effects stuck together and the action-treasureness thrown on top of that? The action part can't combine with treasures so it seems like reasonable $3 or $4 cost to me, maybe it's good enough with Peddler variants that it has to cost £5 but that seems sad on most boards. The buy phase ability isn't strictly superior to Diadem or Vault- Diadem gives +$2 and Vault is a terminal Action that gives +2 cards. This seems like another really weak card to me, I suggest ditching the Diadem part because Diadem exists and Donald has talked about the problems with it as a regular kingdom card and splitting the other two parts into separate cards. Make the action part give +$3 and that could be a reasonable $7 and the Secret Chamber treasure could work as a $1.

Oil Refinery: This is the kind of cool effect I like to see on these expensive cards! It isn't clear to me from the text on the card whether you lock in the choices when you play Refinery or whether you choose each time you play the named card, based on your commentary I assume the former but a clarification on the card might be nice. I doubt this is broken, it seems much weaker than Pathfinding which basically plays a free Lab whenever you play the card. I worry about shuffle luck with this though, it's expensive so it's hard to get many copies and they don't stack particularly well so if you draw it near the bottom of your shuffle that's really sad. Making it a Reserve would  solve that somewhat but make it a lot slower so I'm not sure on that.

Factory: This just a bit dull, I feel like Pathfinding is secretly the big expensive super Lab that this is trying to be. Menagerie provides this effect but with a funner hoop to jump through that "have loads of money". We need more wacky Prince and Oil Refinery type things as $8 and $9 costs than stuff we've already seen but bigger.

Supermarket: Similar feeling to above but at least this has the buy restriction which makes it a little more interesting.

Public School: I don't hate having a second Teacher but just making it an expensive action just isn't exciting. How about you need to meet certain conditions at the end of the turn to get the tokens: if you have a certain amount of unspent money you can get the +but token (to use the money), a certain amount of unused actions +1 Card (to draw more actions), a certain amount of cards in hand +1 Action (to play the cards)  and a certain number of unused buys +$1 (to use the buys). Jumping through hoops like Menagerie or Magic Lamp is fun!

Metropolis: This kinda sucks right? How much more do you have to build if you can afford these? I see it used to give +3 VP I don't think that was too good for $10, it seems like going straight for Provinces will just go under this unless it's a Colony board.

Theatre: So this should say "If there are no other supply piles" because otherwise it counts itself and never works maybe, but that's just a wording nitpick. Also I think $4 for a non-mandatory cantrip trasher is too good, Junk Dealer and Upgrade are like the best $5's in my opinion apart from maybe Cultist or Mountebank, regardless of whether you agree with that though they're clearly near the top so that effect is kinda like Fugitive where it's too good for $4 but not enough for $5. Also the wording on the trashing part is weird and doesn't really work (Every card that trashes cards can trash "your cards" so it doesn't really get around the trashing attack problem) so I'd just get rid of that bit. This is a really cool card though!

Salesman: I think to comparison to make is Lab to Hireling rather than Pathfinding to Seaway so maybe this should cost $4 but it's probably fine at $3, I like it.

Worker: First off I think your design philosophy on these $1 costs is a bit off. $1 costs should be pretty much the same powerlevel wise as $2 costs, Poor House would be fine as a $2 and no existing $2's would break the game if they cost $1 instead (Okay Stonemason but it breaks the game at $2 so it doesn't count) Poor House costing $1 is pretty much just a gimmick.

Onto Worker itself, Champion is pretty much the only situation in which this card is any good. Weak terminal cards just don't get bought, or shouldn't get bought at least, I mean if Cultist gave Workers out instead of ruins it would still be broken. Sure you can buy loads if you have the buys and they aren't the worst thing ever if you have too many actions, but that probably just means you haven't built your deck in the most efficient way and buying fewer villages and fewer more powerful terminals will just be better in 99% of situations.

Market Stall: This one is better- it isn't strictly worse than any existing $2's like Worker is to Pawn and nonterminal +buy is good utility. As an aside all $1's should technically cost $2 and more than one extra buy is super useful! These cheap cards make extra buys less useful actually because they lower the power level of a kingdom.

Furnace: It's just Masquerade, if this costed $3 it would be third best $3 after Ambassador and Masquerade.

Landfill: This could easily have the gain be optional or give +$1. Otherwise it doesn't do anything on most boards.

Plot of Land: So this has two effects which don't do anything on their own but can have interactions with other cards, I'd prefer it if there was a guarantee that this has an interaction every time. My idea for Cathedral was some kind of Remodel variant that turns things into this and this is a non-supply pile.

Sewer: Wait why does this cost $2? I thought the theme was $1 costs and this seems like a good $1 because it's terminal and looks a bit bad next to Courtyard but not strictly worse.

Banknote: I don't think the edge cases where this being an action are common enough to justify this; Conclave, Minion, Festival and others do the action phase Silver thing but actually add to the game on their own merits too. (Also Scrying Pool is broken and treasure attacks are weak so I don't think that's much of a selling point)

Statue:  Again why include $2's if the theme is $1's? This compares too favourably to Estate maybe, if that matters. I don't really think this is interesting enough to exist given the infinite VP generation potential, even if it turns out okay in the end.

Coal: It's like a weaker but predictable Pixie! That isn't a bad thing, although I worry you just burn this immediately most of the time. I would hesitate to make cantrips cost $1 so I guess I'll let this not costing $1 go.

Slums: This seems fine, but bland. Your expensive cards are too complex and cheap cards too simple! A few vanillas is fine but some of them could do with spicing up.

General store: The floor with this is gain a Silver, which is very weak, if there are other $2's or $3's it gets better. I think this effect wants to be on a more expensive card so you can actually get mileage out of gaining multiple cards.

Reforge: Nice idea but it does have rules problems as others have pointed out. It could give 1 token for copper and 3 for other treasures, this makes it better with Silver and special treasures but that doesn't seem bad to me.

Boom Town: Cool card! I might stop the bonuses at 4 so losing the split isn't completely devastating.

Demolish: This is really strong! I'd probably have it at $4 because double Demolish is an incredible opening.

Pauper: I like it.

Reserve: Doesn't work rules wise but easily fixed by making it a... reserve!

Refund: This is really strong, like a more flexible Temple that gives economy. $4 or maybe even $5 seems appropriate. I think the reveal is unnecessary too right?

Flea Market: The top part is just Oasis with +1 buy which is okay at $4 but a bit boring. The on gain effect is pretty cool though!

I know it's the main theme of the set but I think there are some potentially good cards here that have been kind of shoehorned into being super expensive or super cheap (General Store is a good example) a few off theme cards are fine and I wouldn't lower the quality of the cards just to fit a theme.
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loneXolf

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Re: Dominion: Industrial Revolution [UPDATED]
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 08:38:39 am »
+1

Overall: I see that you like to make carbon clones of cards with lower or higher costs, I would try to stay away from this since it can ruin and balance of the game(supermarket,factory,metropolis) and can be really uninteresting why have factory when we already have laboratory. Why do you think hunting grounds has a when you trash this effect? (So it's not just a better smithy) or why does lost city have a negative effect instead of a higher cost?

Cathedral- Seems fine to me. Most cards that gives actions, cards, and vp don't seem that healthy to me, but the cost and trashing might limit that. Seems to lack impact for a 6 cost card for me,  but isn't as bad as Altar.

Town Hall- Horrible card to track if you play with more than 1 copy. Very strong trasher. But might be too strong considering it can be a grand market for two turns if you choose to gain the copper.

Hospital- This is the type of rng card that triggers me, since I will always draw it with little to no discard pile and my opponent will get rid of most to all of his starting deck in one to two uses, but that's just me. Also why does it not say "You may trash any number of cards" to stop it from comboing with on trash effects?

Observatory- This card seems like rubbish for the cost of 7. You need a deck that works with it perfectly to justify buying it. Also Look thought your deck effects don't seem that Dominion-like to me.

Steel Foundry- Seems fine. Pure vanilla cards sound not be high costed without a good reason since it's a tad boring, I would rework this card somehow to have text on it, but that's just me.

Infantry- Maybe is fine. I don't really like how it's power changes depending how many players are in the game.

Artillery- The targeted discard attack doesn't really fit dominion to me. In some kingdoms, I can see this card really making the game purely based on getting good artillery attacks off. Also do you have to pay X thing for each time you want to discard a card? If so, this card is much better in a 2 player game (besides the wider selection for the gain effect). Text needs some work.

Police station- "Or the last card you gained" That text is broken. Reactions cards should not attack your opponent. Also why would you buy this in a kingdom with no attacks?

Stock Exchange- Weird card hard to see it's power level without playing with it. The action phase half just seems to be a worse storyteller and buy phase half just seems weak to me. This card really demands a working engine that wants something like this and for 7 most of the time you will be buying a province over this. I can see games were no one touches this card. Also I would not try to combine a lot of different card effects together into a "mega card".

Oil Refinery- Seems like a fun card to use. A bit of a pain to track. Hard to see how strong it is.

Factory, public school, supermarket, Metopolis- I don't really think a non-victory cards should cost more than 8 without built on cost reduction, without a good reason. Having a lot of these cards will in a kingdom will limit the amount of cheaper cards can really put a game out of place. My suggestion is making them into a half pile at least when creating a 9+ costed card. Factory and supermarket don't really seem that healthly for the game. Public school, not a fan of stealing teacher's thunder but a slight pass on this since it isn't as bad as factory and supermarket. Metropolis follow suit with factory and supermarket, also I don't really see a good reason for making this a victory card, besides the slight theme with the stock victory cards.

Theatre- A poor attempt for "fixing" random kingdoms. Seems like a pain to see just by looking at the card what it actually does. A lot of the versions of these cards are also bad, for example a village with +1 buy and trashes a card from your hand isn't good for 6, also the 8 and 9 costs versions are sorta bad, a lost city should even have a trashing effect.

Salesman- There is already a fan made hireling clone that's +1 coin +1 buy I think. But I like this card a little bit better, not sure if a reliable extra buy is healthy for this game though.

Worker- This card is just bad, bad 1 cost cards don't really fit the game since you are limited to 1 buy without +1 buys and kingdoms can already be clunky. And for what reason you would put this over pawn in a prebuilt kingdom. +1 card terminals aren't healthy either.

Market stall- same as worker.

Furnace- Not sure if this card works or not something is off about it for me, I would make it cost 3 as is.

Landfill- Doesn't add anything that remodel or one of it's clones doesn't do. Why use this card over remodel?

Plot of land- Bad design, what if there is no action support or trashing support in the kingdom?

Sewer- Seems like less interesting spin on courtyard

Banknote- I don't see a reason for this card to exist, also it should cost more.

Statue- While it can lead to endless games, and that's okay?

Coal- This is worse than Encampment. A +1 card and +1 action card doesn't have much value, for a mining village type effect.

Slums- Why add a vanilla version of crossroads?

General Store- This card is pretty worthless in most kingdoms, following that make bad cards theme you got with workers.

Reforge- This card just seems too slow and clunky for most kingdoms.

Boom town- I seen this idea before I think. I cannot really see it's power level too much without playing with it. If you removed the 4 and 5 more lines it would work for sure.

Demolish- This seems like a much worse version of sentry for 3. It just seems weak to me since trashing a good target is heavy rng and place on the bottom of your deck for a card you won't trash isn't very strong. I don't think we need a cantrip that can trash unless it has a really special design.

Pauper- Too weak to warrant a buy in most cases unless you really need the buy.

Reserve- Putting coin tokens in your deck doesn't really seem like a good idea. Also brakes the game with storyteller. candlestick marker is pretty much a more useful version of pauper and reserve combined without the draw and discard effect.

Refund- Seems a bit too good for 2. I would make it cost at least 4.

Flea Market- Sorta works. A oasis clone for 4 isn't really a good idea oasis works a 3 since the peddler's value is 4. The +buy is cute but not really a interesting card.

P.S Sorry for any typos I didn't double check anything.
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