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[Seprix]

For players looking to improve, it's important to come in with a good opening and a game plan, as well as knowing what will generally happen in any given game. People can present boards and then provide the solutions in spoilers. Like "Forced Wins Training Sessions", this thread will hopefully help some players get better at finding that edge over their opponent.

Here is the first board, admittedly a bit easy:

Code: [Select]

Transmute, Ambassador, Doctor, Lookout, Port, Spice Merchant, Worker's Village, Highway, Mandarin, Fairgrounds
What do you do here on 4/3? 5/2?

How will this game go?

Feel free to submit your own boards. Let the training begin!

[2.71828.....]

I would start spice merchant/ambassador over double ambassador any day.

Also, 5/2 (not 2/5) I think a case could be made to open mandarin/doctor. Getting to 5 to buy highways will be tough early. Having that mandarin could really help. But then maybe your opponent can thin quickly enough and put you in a hurt with Estates and coppers and such. I am still intrigued by a (rare) mandarin 5/2.

[Seprix]

I would start spice merchant/ambassador over double ambassador any day.

Also, 5/2 (not 2/5) I think a case could be made to open mandarin/doctor. Getting to 5 to buy highways will be tough early. Having that mandarin could really help. But then maybe your opponent can thin quickly enough and put you in a hurt with Estates and coppers and such. I am still intrigued by a (rare) mandarin 5/2.

Mandarin is one of those few cards I am still not terribly acquainted with. And I agree that Spice Merchant/Ambassador is better overall.

[Seprix]

Another Kingdom.

Code: [Select]

Save, Crossroads, Bridge, Messenger, Militia, Quarry, Transmogrify, Band of Misfits, Pillage, Upgrade, Prince
What do you do here on 5/2? 4/3?

What is the game plan?

[ThetaSigma12]

Transmute is very strong here, and you likely want two of them.

I think you mean Transmogrify.

[Kirian]

I feel like Transmogrify is better than Militia here.  You're getting some of the functionality of Upgrade, and you want them later on.

[arcee]

can you use quarry to get Princes, and Save them to collide with Bridges?

e: actually, princed Crossroads could lead into a big bridge turn as well.

[Seprix]

e: actually, princed Crossroads could lead into a big bridge turn as well.

Not when you're getting shafted by Princed Militia every turn.

[Titandrake]

I don't like that you said "people can post solutions", because unlike the forced wins topic the "solutions" might not be right. For example, I'm not sure picking up a Prince is right on this board. My plan would be something like, Militia/Silver into lots of Upgrades and at least 1 Transmogrify, then Transmogrify Upgrade --> Pillage or Silver --> Militia as needed. In that plan piles might end very fast, which could lead to a game where you don't have time to pick up Prince and draw it with the right target.

There's value in discussing what you would do on the board, and I do think there's some value in discussing only high level goals for each kingdom, but I'd prefer calling it just that - discussion.

[ThetaSigma12]

I don't like that you said "people can post solutions", because unlike the forced wins topic the "solutions" might not be right. For example, I'm not sure picking up a Prince is right on this board. My plan would be something like, Militia/Silver into lots of Upgrades and at least 1 Transmogrify, then Transmogrify Upgrade --> Pillage or Silver --> Militia as needed. In that plan piles might end very fast, which could lead to a game where you don't have time to pick up Prince and draw it with the right target.

There's value in discussing what you would do on the board, and I do think there's some value in discussing only high level goals for each kingdom, but I'd prefer calling it just that - discussion.

This. It's a great idea to start a discussion Seprix, and I've enjoyed reading yours and other's opinion and comments, but labeling your answers as the "solution", or "answer", instead of a suggestion or idea seems a bit (really no offense here) prideful.

[Seprix]

I don't like that you said "people can post solutions", because unlike the forced wins topic the "solutions" might not be right. For example, I'm not sure picking up a Prince is right on this board. My plan would be something like, Militia/Silver into lots of Upgrades and at least 1 Transmogrify, then Transmogrify Upgrade --> Pillage or Silver --> Militia as needed. In that plan piles might end very fast, which could lead to a game where you don't have time to pick up Prince and draw it with the right target.

There's value in discussing what you would do on the board, and I do think there's some value in discussing only high level goals for each kingdom, but I'd prefer calling it just that - discussion.

This. It's a great idea to start a discussion Seprix, and I've enjoyed reading yours and other's opinion and comments, but labeling your answers as the "solution", or "answer", instead of a suggestion or idea seems a bit (really no offense here) prideful.

I don't see how that becomes the conclusion reached. Mistaken, certainly. But I don't know where this whole pride angle came from. That was how the game went when I played it, and I didn't see any better options at the time or in retrospect.

My thinking was this: At a certain point it just becomes another thread where you end up posting logs, and nobody needs that, that's where game reports come in. This thread was hopefully going to be some interesting thing where you realize the best strategy isn't immediately obvious and you have to think. That was the plan. It probably wasn't correct to have a solutions section, and I can omit that (and erase all prior) in the future and just post boards where you think about how it'll go.

[ThetaSigma12]

I don't like that you said "people can post solutions", because unlike the forced wins topic the "solutions" might not be right. For example, I'm not sure picking up a Prince is right on this board. My plan would be something like, Militia/Silver into lots of Upgrades and at least 1 Transmogrify, then Transmogrify Upgrade --> Pillage or Silver --> Militia as needed. In that plan piles might end very fast, which could lead to a game where you don't have time to pick up Prince and draw it with the right target.

There's value in discussing what you would do on the board, and I do think there's some value in discussing only high level goals for each kingdom, but I'd prefer calling it just that - discussion.

This. It's a great idea to start a discussion Seprix, and I've enjoyed reading yours and other's opinion and comments, but labeling your answers as the "solution", or "answer", instead of a suggestion or idea seems a bit (really no offense here) prideful.

I don't see how that becomes the conclusion reached. Mistaken, certainly. But I don't know where this whole pride angle came from. That was how the game went when I played it, and I didn't see any better options at the time or in retrospect.

My thinking was this: At a certain point it just becomes another thread where you end up posting logs, and nobody needs that, that's where game reports come in. This thread was hopefully going to be some interesting thing where you realize the best strategy isn't immediately obvious and you have to think. That was the plan. It probably wasn't correct to have a solutions section, and I can omit that (and erase all prior) in the future and just post boards where you think about how it'll go.

It seemed like you were labeling your answers as the correct ones. Certainly, on the internet it is very easy to convey the wrong message, so I defiantly believe that you had no intention or making me feel a bit offended.

This thread IS a good idea though, and I would be for you editing your posts to be more open to alternate "solutions."

[Roadrunner7671]

I think if you're going to go the lengths to buy a Prince you'd be better served to Prince a BoM. The Militia pile isn't going to run out, and that bit of flexibility is a help.

Personally though, I probably wouldn't go for Prince though. I'm really not sure what I'd do on this board.

[Chris is me]

For the second game, because of Save it is definitely worth discussing the differences between 5/2 and 2/5.

2/5 is nothing (or Crossroads) / Upgrade. 5/2 is Upgrade / Save a Copper.

Seconded on the "don't label what you come up with as The Solution" idea.

Prince Militia, then try and get a bunch of Golds probably and green out. I don't think you can make all the Bridge tricks work here? Save only helps a little with Militia reducing hand size.

[singletee]

This board was from my League match with Seprix. Some observations from me:

I do think you want to get one Prince for your Militia. The attack consistency helps a lot, and the $2 every turn is important too. Save will help you line them up.

Gold is a very good card on this board.

Quarry is bad (whoops!). It helps to get Prince but needs other help to do it. There is +Buy but there are no cheap spammable Action cards you want. Gold is your goal here, and Quarry doesn't help you get it.

Transmogrify is great, I like getting 1 or 2 of them.

[luser]

This board was from my League match with Seprix. Some observations from me:

I do think you want to get one Prince for your Militia. The attack consistency helps a lot, and the $2 every turn is important too. Save will help you line them up.

Gold is a very good card on this board.

Quarry is bad (whoops!). It helps to get Prince but needs other help to do it. There is +Buy but there are no cheap spammable Action cards you want. Gold is your goal here, and Quarry doesn't help you get it.

Transmogrify is great, I like getting 1 or 2 of them.

I disagree with your quarry rating, its relatively decent here with transmorgrify, After you get prince it becomes upgrade/pillage/duchy/silver.

For opening I favor pillage over upgrade as with saving spoils you should easily get prince and then save prince to connect with millitia. For estates you could use transmorgrify and as its otherwise moneyish board upgrading coppers with 3 size hands from millitia isn't a thing.

[Limetime]

It's between transmogrify and militia.
I like militia more because
a) the attack is brutal
b) you can hit upgrade
c)the attack is pretty good early.

[Limetime]

I think if you're going to go the lengths to buy a Prince you'd be better served to Prince a BoM. The Militia pile isn't going to run out, and that bit of flexibility is a help.

Personally though, I probably wouldn't go for Prince though. I'm really not sure what I'd do on this board.

Princing a bom is pretty hard because you can only prince cards 4 or less. Going into the effort to of playing bridge before prince is definatly not worth the little bit of flexibility you gain.

[luser]

It's between transmogrify and militia.
I like militia more because
a) the attack is brutal
b) you can hit upgrade
c)the attack is pretty good early.

I would do open transmorgrify, then militia rather than opposite. (and if opponent already has two millitias then perhaps messenger him third one and tmorgrify messenger. Main difference is attack on turn 3/4, otherwise its mostly same. Chances of getting gold are relatively low and upgrade isn't that hot and if it hits on turn 3 opponent could save silver for better turn 4, that he might want to do anyway.

[pacatak]

Played this set last night. So many different options we played two games with it.  I'm what strategies would you have done

[aku_chi]

Replacing Estates with Mills seems really strong.  Mill also has synergy with Diplomat and Patrol.  I would probably open with Mill and Silver and look to get a Replace or two ASAP.  Diplomat is good as a response to Replace and in conjunction with Mill, so it's definitely worth picking up.  I'd probably play a sloppy Mill + Diplomat engine, but if I got a good opportunity for a large Doctor overpay, I would take it.  Replace will be bad at trashing Curses, especially once the Curses are out.  A Stonemason for two $4 cards seems strong (I probably take Diplomats over Heralds).  I might rely on Stonemasons for trashing Curses and some Copper.  There may or may not be time to add a Patrol or two.  I expect that Mill and Curses will empty quickly, so Poacher will be poor.  With Stonemason in the kingdom, a fast three-pile ending seems certain.  Winning the Mill split will make it easier to come out ahead in the three pile finish.  This engine I'm planning is a little sloppy, so a Herald overbuy to set up a last turn could be strong.  Taxman and Masterpiece seem irrelevant in the kingdom.

[Chris is me]

Poacher is very good here, so I would probably open Poacher / Silver. It's not like you're stuck with it in the event of two piles draining. Grab a Replace as soon as you can and change Estates into Mills. The attack + Mill synergy with other cards makes it better than Herald or Poacher (though you should buy those cards over Mill).

Diplomat is actually really good here - Replace counts as an attack in any case, and Mill makes discarding down for benefit possible.