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Author Topic: Some Fan Cards  (Read 5445 times)

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soudek01

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Some Fan Cards
« on: September 28, 2016, 06:43:32 pm »
+6

Hey, Dominion Strategy, I have never posted before but I have been following the forums for about a year. Here are some of my fan card ideas. Test them, give me some constructive criticism, or just let me know what you think. I don't have Adobe Photoshop so I don't have nice mock-ups of any of my ideas.

Here is a Lurker/Peddler varient:

Resurrection ($4, Action)

+1 Action
+$1

You may either trash a card from your hand, trash this for +1 card, or gain a card from the trash.
_____________________________________________________________________
When you gain this from the trash, also gain a card from the Supply costing up to $6.


The Market varient:

Impatient Market ($5, Action)
 
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+$1

_______________________________________________________________
When you draw this, instead of putting it in your hand, set it aside face up and +1 card. After you have finished drawing, put this in your hand.


A new attack:

Barricade ($4, Action - Attack - Duration)

You may put your deck in your discard pile. You may trash a card from your hand or discard pile, if you do, +$2. While this is in play, when an opponent would trash a card, they put their hand in their discard pile instead.


Event idea:

Deny ($12, Event)

Once per game: gain any action supply card, if you do, immediately trash the rest of the cards in that pile. That pile no longer counts towards the pile out game ending.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 10:23:19 pm by soudek01 »
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faust

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2016, 06:46:17 pm »
+3

Impatient Market ($5, Action)
 
+1 Action
+1 Buy
+1
_______________________________________________________________
When you draw this, +1 card.
That card is way too overpowered for getting respect.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2016, 06:49:02 pm »
0

Faust, could you explain why you think that? I was considering bumping the price to 6.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 06:50:57 pm by soudek01 »
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faust

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2016, 06:56:53 pm »
+2

Faust, could you explain why you think that? I was considering bumping the price to 6.
I was making a joke about the fact that your card only says "+1" in the last line, without specifing the bonus. "+1" is a frequent expression to indicate that you upvoted a post by someone else. Thus I consciously misinterpreted your card as saying that you get an upvote, and thus more "respect", each time you play the card.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2016, 07:05:46 pm »
0

Oh, thanks, I didn't realize that the bonus wasn't specified. It's +1 $ because it's a Market variant!
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2016, 07:35:50 pm »
+2

Impatient Market would have to have a back like Stash, or else you could slyly reveal it more than once if you were amy good with sleight of hand. Balance wise, wouldn't it be basically strictly better than Market? You might trigger a reshuffle, but drawing Impatient Market dead doesn't hurt you as much as drawing Market dead.
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2016, 07:38:38 pm »
+1

Recycle should probably cost $2 because all it can really do (in a regular game) is gain Industrial Villages. Depending on the type of deck you're building, Industrial Village can be a huge powerhouse, like if you're doing crazy trash for benefit then gain back shenanigans. So it's balance would largely depend on the board. I like that you can only gain it through Recycle though!
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2016, 07:54:18 pm »
0

Impatient Market would have to have a back like Stash, or else you could slyly reveal it more than once if you were amy good with sleight of hand. Balance wise, wouldn't it be basically strictly better than Market? You might trigger a reshuffle, but drawing Impatient Market dead doesn't hurt you as much as drawing Market dead.

I don't think it would need a special backing, it would just be kindof a surprise when you draw it and get an extra card, especially if your not tracking your deck very well. I am not sure if it is strictly better than market; it can't be Throned for draw and topdecking doesn't appear on many boards but if you draw it dead you still get +1 card.

Recycle should probably cost $2 because all it can really do (in a regular game) is gain Industrial Villages. Depending on the type of deck you're building, Industrial Village can be a huge powerhouse, like if you're doing crazy trash for benefit then gain back shenanigans. So it's balance would largely depend on the board. I like that you can only gain it through Recycle though!

Maybe Recycle should cost 2. I'd say that there is some form of trashing in the majority of games so you could potentially snag knights or some late game estates out of the trash with Recycle. Especially if you're using Industrial Villages for massive draw. Do you think a rush could work with Recycle, Industrial Village and something else?

Also, Recycle weakens Remodelers, Forge and Rebuild.
There is a decent chance that Industrial Village is the only Village on the board.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 08:02:38 pm by soudek01 »
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ConMan

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2016, 09:02:30 pm »
+1

Impatient Market would have to have a back like Stash, or else you could slyly reveal it more than once if you were amy good with sleight of hand. Balance wise, wouldn't it be basically strictly better than Market? You might trigger a reshuffle, but drawing Impatient Market dead doesn't hurt you as much as drawing Market dead.

I don't think it would need a special backing, it would just be kindof a surprise when you draw it and get an extra card, especially if your not tracking your deck very well. I am not sure if it is strictly better than market; it can't be Throned for draw and topdecking doesn't appear on many boards but if you draw it dead you still get +1 card.
The problem isn't that *you* can't track when your Impatient Market shows up, it's that you're not accountable to your opponents.
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2016, 09:41:22 pm »
0

Impatient Market would have to have a back like Stash, or else you could slyly reveal it more than once if you were amy good with sleight of hand. Balance wise, wouldn't it be basically strictly better than Market? You might trigger a reshuffle, but drawing Impatient Market dead doesn't hurt you as much as drawing Market dead.

I don't think it would need a special backing, it would just be kindof a surprise when you draw it and get an extra card, especially if your not tracking your deck very well. I am not sure if it is strictly better than market; it can't be Throned for draw and topdecking doesn't appear on many boards but if you draw it dead you still get +1 card.
The problem isn't that *you* can't track when your Impatient Market shows up, it's that you're not accountable to your opponents.

This makes sense. I guess I am not used to playing with cheaters. This also wouldn't really be an issue online. Maybe we could say:

"When you draw this, reveal it to the other players, set it aside face-up, and +1 card. When you're done drawing cards place this into your hand."

It's hard to word. There is always Roadrunner's idea of putting a stash-like backside on the card. Do you guys think a "when-draw" effect is worth doing?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 09:42:36 pm by soudek01 »
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Limetime

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2016, 10:00:39 pm »
+1

Impatient Market would have to have a back like Stash, or else you could slyly reveal it more than once if you were amy good with sleight of hand. Balance wise, wouldn't it be basically strictly better than Market? You might trigger a reshuffle, but drawing Impatient Market dead doesn't hurt you as much as drawing Market dead.

I don't think it would need a special backing, it would just be kindof a surprise when you draw it and get an extra card, especially if your not tracking your deck very well. I am not sure if it is strictly better than market; it can't be Throned for draw and topdecking doesn't appear on many boards but if you draw it dead you still get +1 card.
The problem isn't that *you* can't track when your Impatient Market shows up, it's that you're not accountable to your opponents.

This makes sense. I guess I am not used to playing with cheaters. This also wouldn't really be an issue online. Maybe we could say:

"When you draw this, reveal it to the other players, set it aside face-up, and +1 card. When you're done drawing cards place this into your hand."

It's hard to word. There is always Roadrunner's idea of putting a stash-like backside on the card. Do you guys think a "when-draw" effect is worth doing?
It is probably too close to +1 card
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2016, 11:18:10 pm »
0

Limetime, good point, they are similar abilities. The major perks of the "when draw" ability are:

1) You still get the +1 card if you draw Impatient Village dead.
2) You can play cards in different orders.
               Examples: Since I already drew this Throne Room, I can now throne my Impatient Village.
                                Since I already drew this Crossroads, my City Quarter will draw me more cards.
                                Since I already drew this Replace (from Intrigue V2), I can Replace my Impatient Village.
                                There are a lot of examples, they're just hard to think of, haha.
3) The "when draw" ability can trigger at unique times, such as after a Legionary attack (which actually makes the ability a bit like a reaction).
     
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 11:28:15 pm by soudek01 »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2016, 11:33:02 pm »
+1

Recycle makes TFB better. Check this out:

Play Industrial Village
Play Remodel, trash Province, gain Province.
Play Recycle, gain Province from the trash.

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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2016, 11:37:11 pm »
0

Recycle makes TFB better. Check this out:

Play Industrial Village
Play Remodel, trash Province, gain Province.
Play Recycle, gain Province from the trash.



Does the TFB make Recycle OP?
What do you think of an empty trash counting towards the 3 pile (the second part of Recycle)? On some boards there may be a rush with Recycle, Industrial Village (Trash), and Estates or something. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to test it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 11:42:56 pm by soudek01 »
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2016, 12:07:40 am »
+1

Recycle makes TFB better. Check this out:

Play Industrial Village
Play Remodel, trash Province, gain Province.
Play Recycle, gain Province from the trash.



Does the TFB make Recycle OP?
What do you think of an empty trash counting towards the 3 pile (the second part of Recycle)? On some boards there may be a rush with Recycle, Industrial Village (Trash), and Estates or something. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to test it.
That doesn't sound like a good rush at all. Your opponent can just snag a few Provinces and be in the clear.

I don't think TFB makes Recycle overpowered. It's sort of like Fortress I guess. I don't think Fortress is overpowered with TFB. And it would be easier to take advantage of TBH with Fortress than it would be with Recycle.
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2016, 12:35:46 am »
0

Recycle makes TFB better. Check this out:

Play Industrial Village
Play Remodel, trash Province, gain Province.
Play Recycle, gain Province from the trash.



Does the TFB make Recycle OP?
What do you think of an empty trash counting towards the 3 pile (the second part of Recycle)? On some boards there may be a rush with Recycle, Industrial Village (Trash), and Estates or something. Unfortunately, I haven't had time to test it.
That doesn't sound like a good rush at all. Your opponent can just snag a few Provinces and be in the clear.

I don't think TFB makes Recycle overpowered. It's sort of like Fortress I guess. I don't think Fortress is overpowered with TFB. And it would be easier to take advantage of TBH with Fortress than it would be with Recycle.

I just gave it a super basic test and in an uncontested 2 player game with no trashing, no attacking, no + buy, and Recycle costing $2, those three piles can be emptied by about round 18. Earning that player a total of 11 points. It's a completely horrible rush, haha.

However, I still like the concept of an empty trash counting toward the 3 pile in Recycle games.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 12:37:32 am by soudek01 »
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Asper

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2016, 04:03:27 am »
+2

Hi, and welcome to the forums. Not sure how long you have been lurking here, but i also did a card that starts out in the trash a while ago. Like yours, it was paired with a supply card that gained it from there, and was a trasher itself - the main difference was that my trash card was an attack that made opponents trash their cards, which meant the trash would get filled with cards you actually want to gain from there. Edit: That also reduced the tfb-abuse potential.

For Industrial Village, i see the main reason to gain it in the first place would be to trash bad cards (even if you gain it for the Village, you will still use it to trash junk), and that implies that if a player gains them at all, the trash will fill up with useless stuff nobody wants to gain back. This makes the 3-pile clause basically useless - to actually get an empty trash, players would have to gain 10 cards without using their best ability.
Edit 2: I think the clause is meaningful only in games without trashing and without a card that starts in the trash - so it basically means that in games without trashing, only 2 piles need to empty. Sadly, this implies that junkers will become unbearably strong - imagine a game that ends immediately as the IGG are emptied.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 04:11:10 am by Asper »
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McGarnacle

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2016, 07:34:26 am »
+1

Faust, could you explain why you think that? I was considering bumping the price to 6.
I was making a joke about the fact that your card only says "+1" in the last line, without specifing the bonus. "+1" is a frequent expression to indicate that you upvoted a post by someone else. Thus I consciously misinterpreted your card as saying that you get an upvote, and thus more "respect", each time you play the card.

I would buy that card on every board. On a side note, I wonder how many times we've all played a Copper in Dominion, and how much respect we would have if Copper had +1.
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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2016, 08:54:52 am »
+1

@soudek01 I'd be happy mock up your cards for you if you wanted me to.
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2016, 10:23:49 am »
+1

@soudek01 I'd be happy mock up your cards for you if you wanted me to.

Please do! Is there an easy, free way to mock them up that I don't know about?
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2016, 10:24:44 am »
0

Faust, could you explain why you think that? I was considering bumping the price to 6.
I was making a joke about the fact that your card only says "+1" in the last line, without specifing the bonus. "+1" is a frequent expression to indicate that you upvoted a post by someone else. Thus I consciously misinterpreted your card as saying that you get an upvote, and thus more "respect", each time you play the card.

I would buy that card on every board. On a side note, I wonder how many times we've all played a Copper in Dominion, and how much respect we would have if Copper had +1.

Haha, I'd be more respected that's for sure!
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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2016, 10:37:51 am »
+1

@soudek01 I'd be happy mock up your cards for you if you wanted me to.

Please do! Is there an easy, free way to mock them up that I don't know about?
No.

Actually, you could PM me or somebody like Apser, Co0kieL0rd, or LastFootnote and they might do it for you. Try me first, and I'll get back ASAP.
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2016, 10:38:46 am »
+1

Hi, and welcome to the forums. Not sure how long you have been lurking here, but i also did a card that starts out in the trash a while ago. Like yours, it was paired with a supply card that gained it from there, and was a trasher itself - the main difference was that my trash card was an attack that made opponents trash their cards, which meant the trash would get filled with cards you actually want to gain from there. Edit: That also reduced the tfb-abuse potential.

For Industrial Village, i see the main reason to gain it in the first place would be to trash bad cards (even if you gain it for the Village, you will still use it to trash junk), and that implies that if a player gains them at all, the trash will fill up with useless stuff nobody wants to gain back. This makes the 3-pile clause basically useless - to actually get an empty trash, players would have to gain 10 cards without using their best ability.
Edit 2: I think the clause is meaningful only in games without trashing and without a card that starts in the trash - so it basically means that in games without trashing, only 2 piles need to empty. Sadly, this implies that junkers will become unbearably strong - imagine a game that ends immediately as the IGG are emptied.

I appreciate everyone's support with my ideas, it's been fun so far!
Asper, I have been "lurking" for quite a while (fantastic word choice btw). At least, long enough to have downloaded all of your cards and understood their concepts. Speaking of your cards, Necromancer/Zombie are well thought out, but I haven't gotten a chance to actually playtest them. The main idea with my start in the trash cards is the 3-pile clause, I would like to make that work somehow. What about a Fishing Village/Crossroads/Caravan/Haunted Woods Variant for Industrial Village?

Recycle ($2, Action)
Look through the trash; you may gain a card from it.
_______________________________________________________________
Setup: Place the Industrial Village pile in the trash. In games using this, if the trash is empty, consider it an empty Supply pile.

Industrial Village (*$4, Action - Attack - Duration)
+2 Actions
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per Recycle revealed. If you didn't draw any cards, +1 card.
At the start of your next turn:
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per Recycle revealed.
_______________________________________________________________
While this is in play, other players can only trash cards costing $5 or more.

The reasoning behind this version of Recycle/Industrial Village is: 1) TfB abuse is reduced 2) put good stuff in the trash 3) Let's be honest, the idea is falling apart, suggestions? There is a cool Tournanament-like game ending here where the important part is having a province in your hand and enough Actions to chain Remodels and Recycles.
1) Draw your deck and a Province.
2) Play Village.
3) Remodel a Province into Province.
4) Play Village.
5) Recycle a Province.
6) Play Village.
7) Repeat.
This would be difficult to setup, I am not sure If i would consider it TfB abuse or good deck building.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 11:10:17 am by soudek01 »
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Asper

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2016, 12:04:49 pm »
+1

Hi, and welcome to the forums. Not sure how long you have been lurking here, but i also did a card that starts out in the trash a while ago. Like yours, it was paired with a supply card that gained it from there, and was a trasher itself - the main difference was that my trash card was an attack that made opponents trash their cards, which meant the trash would get filled with cards you actually want to gain from there. Edit: That also reduced the tfb-abuse potential.

For Industrial Village, i see the main reason to gain it in the first place would be to trash bad cards (even if you gain it for the Village, you will still use it to trash junk), and that implies that if a player gains them at all, the trash will fill up with useless stuff nobody wants to gain back. This makes the 3-pile clause basically useless - to actually get an empty trash, players would have to gain 10 cards without using their best ability.
Edit 2: I think the clause is meaningful only in games without trashing and without a card that starts in the trash - so it basically means that in games without trashing, only 2 piles need to empty. Sadly, this implies that junkers will become unbearably strong - imagine a game that ends immediately as the IGG are emptied.

I appreciate everyone's support with my ideas, it's been fun so far!
Asper, I have been "lurking" for quite a while (fantastic word choice btw). At least, long enough to have downloaded all of your cards and understood their concepts. Speaking of your cards, Necromancer/Zombie are well thought out, but I haven't gotten a chance to actually playtest them. The main idea with my start in the trash cards is the 3-pile clause, I would like to make that work somehow. What about a Fishing Village/Crossroads/Caravan/Haunted Woods Variant for Industrial Village?

Recycle ($2, Action)
Look through the trash; you may gain a card from it.
_______________________________________________________________
Setup: Place the Industrial Village pile in the trash. In games using this, if the trash is empty, consider it an empty Supply pile.

Industrial Village (*$4, Action - Attack - Duration)
+2 Actions
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per Recycle revealed. If you didn't draw any cards, +1 card.
At the start of your next turn:
+1 Action
Reveal your hand. +1 Card per Recycle revealed.
_______________________________________________________________
While this is in play, other players can only trash cards costing $5 or more.

The reasoning behind this version of Recycle/Industrial Village is: 1) TfB abuse is reduced 2) put good stuff in the trash 3) Let's be honest, the idea is falling apart, suggestions? There is a cool Tournanament-like game ending here where the important part is having a province in your hand and enough Actions to chain Remodels and Recycles.
1) Draw your deck and a Province.
2) Play Village.
3) Remodel a Province into Province.
4) Play Village.
5) Recycle a Province.
6) Play Village.
7) Repeat.
This would be difficult to setup, I am not sure If i would consider it TfB abuse or good deck building.

Well, Necromancer solved the issue of tfb abuse (at LastFootnote's suggestion) by only gaining Action and Treasure cards. You should do either that or limit the price range, because i feel Province (and Colony) are the cards where tfb would be strongest. Firstly, because they have the highest costs in their respective games, secondly, because - unlike when you Remodel a Gold into a Province - you do not lose a "useful" car when you trash them.

Also, i think not providing a trashing ability is necessary, but probably not enough, to get the 3-pile clause working. Furthermore, you could argue that, in kingdoms without another trasher, this is equal to Industrial Village just being a non-supply pile that counts for the game's end. My suggestion would be to split the two concepts (card starting in trash, 3-pile-rule) up and focus on each on its own - they don't necessarily need to be on the same card. The attack on Industrial Village for example is a concept worth its own slot (although it needs to be reworded to use an "until your next turn" wording to be in line with official Duration-Attacks).
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soudek01

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Re: Some Fan Cards
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2016, 01:41:54 pm »
+1

Thanks, Asper. I'll be thinking about all of that!
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