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Author Topic: Release date  (Read 43010 times)

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crj

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Re: Release date
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2016, 05:19:33 am »
+1

...allegedly.

Personally, I'm holding off until copies are actually in customers' hands to find out if the card flexion, colour consistency and corner radii are back to normal. Also, whether the insert, the key strip, the rulebook's image resolution and the box texture are OK this time round.

I don't know how many of those RGG is even aspiring to fix. Card flexion and rulebook resolution yes, the others... probably not?
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Donald X.

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Re: Release date
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2016, 03:46:43 pm »
+2

Talking about the release, has Rio Grande actually switched the printer or whoever was responsible for the mild production issues of Adventures? It's not a big thing but it'd be nice if the production quality would be similar to that of the previous expansions.
In fact it's the same printer under new owners - Cartamundi bought the plant from Hasbro.

RGG is of course trying to fix everything anyone complained about. I won't know how it turns out until the cards are in my hands; anyone shy is unlikely to suffer from waiting a few days for early reports.
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tristan

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Re: Release date
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2016, 03:10:14 am »
0

Thanks for the info.
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Re: Release date
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2016, 07:44:44 am »
+1

Donald X, do you know if Dominion: Empires will be at the UK Games Expo on 3-5 June?
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schoeggu

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Re: Release date
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2016, 08:23:56 am »
0

I've sent an email to the dominion-welt.de guys last week, asking when we can expect the German version.

The answer:
Quote
Geplant ist zur Zeit eine Veröffentlichung voraussichtlich Anfang September dieses Jahres. Weitere Informationen finden Sie dann auch demnächst auf der Dominion-Welt Website.
:'(
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Re: Release date
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2016, 08:34:52 am »
0

I've sent an email to the dominion-welt.de guys last week, asking when we can expect the German version.

The answer:
Quote
Geplant ist zur Zeit eine Veröffentlichung voraussichtlich Anfang September dieses Jahres. Weitere Informationen finden Sie dann auch demnächst auf der Dominion-Welt Website.
:'(

well.. just as I said ;)
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Emeric

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Re: Release date
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2016, 12:42:25 pm »
0

Talking about the release, has Rio Grande actually switched the printer or whoever was responsible for the mild production issues of Adventures? It's not a big thing but it'd be nice if the production quality would be similar to that of the previous expansions.
In fact it's the same printer under new owners - Cartamundi bought the plant from Hasbro.

RGG is of course trying to fix everything anyone complained about. I won't know how it turns out until the cards are in my hands; anyone shy is unlikely to suffer from waiting a few days for early reports.
And what about the back of the event and the landmark ?
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Donald X.

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Re: Release date
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2016, 12:43:43 pm »
0

Donald X, do you know if Dominion: Empires will be at the UK Games Expo on 3-5 June?
I don't know but it doesn't sound promising; it would need to be air-shipped.
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Donald X.

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Re: Release date
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2016, 12:44:10 pm »
0

And what about the back of the event and the landmark ?
They are intentionally the regular back (not the randomizer back) to match the Adventures ones.
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mith

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Re: Release date
« Reply #34 on: May 20, 2016, 06:05:51 pm »
+18

Because we had so much fun doing this last time...

How to approximate the probabilities of playing with X Events/Landmarks* without having to shuffle them into the randomizer deck, because mixing blue- and brown-backed cards just makes you feel dirty:

Limit of 2 Events/Landmarks
  • Shuffle the basic card randomizers (Curse, Copper, Silver, Gold, Estate, Duchy, Province), and deal them out.
  • If the first three cards include both Curse AND Copper => You've been Mountebank'd! Play with 0 Events/Landmarks (1/7 = 14.29% vs. 14.23%*)
  • Otherwise, if the fourth card is Curse OR Estate => Play with 1 Event/Landmark (9/35 = 25.71% vs. 25.66%*)
  • Otherwise => You're done! Play with 2 Events/Landmarks (3/5 = 60.00% vs. 60.11%*)

Limit of 4 Events/Landmarks
  • Determine if you are playing with 0 or 1 Events/Landmarks as above.
  • Otherwise, if the first, second, or last card is Silver => Play with 2 Events/Landmarks (1/4 = 25.00% vs. 25.07%*)
  • Otherwise, if Duchy was drawn before Province => Play with 3 Events/Landmarks (7/40 = 17.50% vs. 17.54%*)
  • Otherwise => Play with 4 Events/Landmarks (7/40 = 17.50% vs. 17.50%*)

*Assumes 260 Kingdom Cards and 55 Events/Landmarks.

And here's a recursive formula for calculating the exact probabilities:
R = 260 (Kingdom Randomizers)
E = 55 (Events + Landmarks)
T = 315 (R + E)
K = 10 (Kingdom Drawn)

P[0] = C(R,K)
       ------
       C(T,K)

P[N] = P[N-1]*(E-N+1)*(K+N-1)
       ----------------------
            (T-K-N+1)*N
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 06:23:04 pm by mith »
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Oyvind

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Re: Release date
« Reply #35 on: May 23, 2016, 09:50:31 am »
+1

The "funny" thing is that DXV himself has suggested a maximum limit of two events/landmarks in total per game, and he has also said elsewhere that he in fact recommends playing with two events in every game (pre-Empires).

Now that we'll have 34 events and 21 landmarks, we have a total of 55 landscape-oriented non-card cards. Using the suggested maximum of two such cards in every game means that each one will be used in every 27.5 games on average, and we still don't have a total of 275 kingdom cards, so each non-card won't come up exactly as frequently as each kingdom card, at least not yet, although it's really close (we have 236 kingdom piles pre-Empires).

Would there be a problem if one included three events/landmarks in some games? I mean when it comes to balance? I'm sure there's a reason a maximum of two is recommended.
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Re: Release date
« Reply #36 on: May 23, 2016, 10:06:54 am »
0

So is there any news now? You said the copies get shipped on the 25th, does that mean the rulebook gets posted then aswell or will it be on the 26th, 27th?
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LastFootnote

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Re: Release date
« Reply #37 on: May 23, 2016, 10:16:19 am »
+2

The "funny" thing is that DXV himself has suggested a maximum limit of two events/landmarks in total per game, and he has also said elsewhere that he in fact recommends playing with two events in every game (pre-Empires).

I don't remember him making any such recommendation. I think he said something along the lines of, if you want to put two Events in every game, go for it; you can shuffle the Events separately from the other randomizers.

Would there be a problem if one included three events/landmarks in some games? I mean when it comes to balance? I'm sure there's a reason a maximum of two is recommended.

Just to keep the game from getting crazy complex. But if your group can handle complex, do whatever you like. When playing with my main group, we almost always put out three: either 2 Events and 1 Landmark or 1 Event and 2 Landmarks. It's a holdover from Empires playtesting.
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LastFootnote

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Re: Release date
« Reply #38 on: May 23, 2016, 10:18:17 am »
0

So is there any news now? You said the copies get shipped on the 25th, does that mean the rulebook gets posted then aswell or will it be on the 26th, 27th?

Jay (Rio Grande Games) is 100% in charge of when the rulebook goes up. I don't think Donald ever has any information about that.
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mith

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Re: Release date
« Reply #39 on: May 23, 2016, 10:23:46 am »
+1

Now that we'll have 34 events and 21 landmarks, we have a total of 55 landscape-oriented non-card cards. Using the suggested maximum of two such cards in every game means that each one will be used in every 27.5 games on average, and we still don't have a total of 275 kingdom cards, so each non-card won't come up exactly as frequently as each kingdom card, at least not yet, although it's really close (we have 236 kingdom piles pre-Empires).

Assuming 260 and 55, the expected number of Events/Landmarks per game if you don't limit them is about 2.11 (exact value: 55*10/(260+1)). It happens that the suggested maximum is lower than this (but this wouldn't be the case if there were more Kingdom cards).

(Note that even without limiting the number you play with, a given Event or Landmark will show up slightly less often than a given Kingdom card - every 26.1 games vs. every 26; I'm sure there is an elegant way to show where the +1 comes from in the above formula, but my hand-wavy explanation is that the last card you draw will always be a Kingdom card.

And of course Young Witch throws things off a little bit for the 2-3 cost cards, and Black Market further skews things if you want to account for that somehow. Worrying about playing with every card exactly the same number of times seems pointless.)
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Re: Release date
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2016, 11:48:20 am »
+2

As someone posted on BGG, the Rio Grande Games site now lists Dominion: Empires' release date as May 31.
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Re: Release date
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2016, 11:54:48 am »
+5

As someone posted on BGG, the Rio Grande Games site now lists Dominion: Empires' release date as May 31.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!  :'(
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Re: Release date
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2016, 11:58:58 am »
+11

As someone posted on BGG, the Rio Grande Games site now lists Dominion: Empires' release date as May 31.

If it's any consolation, both delays together add up to ~1/25th as long as it took for Adventures to come online.
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Re: Release date
« Reply #43 on: May 23, 2016, 01:20:17 pm »
+7

The problem were the previews. Before those, I didn't know I wanted Empires so much :( Now the previews are teasers after all
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Deadlock39

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Re: Release date
« Reply #44 on: May 23, 2016, 02:12:22 pm »
+2

As someone posted on BGG, the Rio Grande Games site now lists Dominion: Empires' release date as May 31.

Here's to hoping that this is just a conservative estimate based on it starting to ship on the 25th, and maybe it will start showing up slightly before that.

Seprix

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Re: Release date
« Reply #45 on: May 23, 2016, 02:18:54 pm »
+1

So I guess the Rebel Base won't be in firing range in 7 minutes. Darth Vader will be most displeased. :)
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Donald X.

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Re: Release date
« Reply #46 on: May 23, 2016, 03:35:54 pm »
+6

As someone posted on BGG, the Rio Grande Games site now lists Dominion: Empires' release date as May 31.

Here's to hoping that this is just a conservative estimate based on it starting to ship on the 25th, and maybe it will start showing up slightly before that.
I believe it's an in-stores estimate, not a shipping estimate.
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Oyvind

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Re: Release date
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2016, 04:03:32 pm »
0

Now that we'll have 34 events and 21 landmarks, we have a total of 55 landscape-oriented non-card cards. Using the suggested maximum of two such cards in every game means that each one will be used in every 27.5 games on average, and we still don't have a total of 275 kingdom cards, so each non-card won't come up exactly as frequently as each kingdom card, at least not yet, although it's really close (we have 236 kingdom piles pre-Empires).

Assuming 260 and 55, the expected number of Events/Landmarks per game if you don't limit them is about 2.11 (exact value: 55*10/(260+1)). It happens that the suggested maximum is lower than this (but this wouldn't be the case if there were more Kingdom cards).

(Note that even without limiting the number you play with, a given Event or Landmark will show up slightly less often than a given Kingdom card - every 26.1 games vs. every 26; I'm sure there is an elegant way to show where the +1 comes from in the above formula, but my hand-wavy explanation is that the last card you draw will always be a Kingdom card.

And of course Young Witch throws things off a little bit for the 2-3 cost cards, and Black Market further skews things if you want to account for that somehow. Worrying about playing with every card exactly the same number of times seems pointless.)

I'm a statistician, so I know what you mean.  :) Actually, I'm thinking that the Young Witch game "should" include a bane that should be taken out from the randomizer deck, so that a total of 260 kingdom cards should be used in 25.9 games, if you catch my drift.

IMHO the cards used in a Black Market deck shouldn't count towards any of them being used as a kingdom card, but I have a houserule in which only 113 cards (exactly half of the 226 cards not being used in the current kingdom, even though YW once again complicates things a bit) are being used at a time (it's rather difficult shuffling 200+ cards, even with sleeves). It seems like I need to up that number to 125 now, which is perfectly fine with me (split piles should probably be shuffled "internally" in advance). These cards are determined randomly in all Black Market games.

I also agree that it's pointless to find a way to play with all cards the exact same number of times, but being a statistician, it's fun to dream about it.  ;)
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Oyvind

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Re: Release date
« Reply #48 on: May 23, 2016, 04:23:01 pm »
+3

The "funny" thing is that DXV himself has suggested a maximum limit of two events/landmarks in total per game, and he has also said elsewhere that he in fact recommends playing with two events in every game (pre-Empires).

I don't remember him making any such recommendation. I think he said something along the lines of, if you want to put two Events in every game, go for it; you can shuffle the Events separately from the other randomizers.

Would there be a problem if one included three events/landmarks in some games? I mean when it comes to balance? I'm sure there's a reason a maximum of two is recommended.

Just to keep the game from getting crazy complex. But if your group can handle complex, do whatever you like. When playing with my main group, we almost always put out three: either 2 Events and 1 Landmark or 1 Event and 2 Landmarks. It's a holdover from Empires playtesting.

You're right about the recommendation thing. I mean, he said it, but it wasn't in a public forum. I listed somewhere (I think it was on BGG) that I wondered if someone could recommend 50 kingdom cards that would be best to use to showcase as many interesting game mechanics as possible while keeping each element visible enough.

I was going to sing in an opera, and for stage performers, it's generally a lot of waiting in between different scenes, especially during rehearsals, so I collected some of my colleagues and put in Dominion games anywhere we got the time for them. Going to an island for these rehearsals and performances meant that I had somewhat limited space for game accessories in my bag, so I figured I wanted to use about 50 kingdom cards, and then some events.

Donald X. replied to me in a private e-mail message, saying that he recommended bringing all 20 (at the time) events, using two in every game. So we did, and it seemed like a perfect number, even though some of the players had never played Dominion before. I think I'll go for two combined events/landmarks per game in the Empires era, at least initially. Thanks for your feedback! It's greatly appreciated!  :)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 04:39:04 pm by Oyvind »
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Re: Release date
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2016, 06:39:05 pm »
+1

The easiest thing to do if you're worried about Event/Landmark probabilities and want to play with 2 most of the time is to play with 3 Events/Landmarks 3/26 of the time.

(Tangentially related: I messed around at one point with determining the largest group of Recommended Sets of 10 with no overlapping cards. The best I found was 12 Kingdoms, which happened to not include any single-expansion sets; I was a little surprised I couldn't do a bit better, though I suppose half the available cards is pretty good. I think it'd be neat to have a collaborative effort to try to come up with 26 "interesting" Kingdoms without duplication, once Empires is released, since 260 is a nice round number and we can just consider the Bane a special case until we get another promo or something.)
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