Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All

Author Topic: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest  (Read 7134 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6437
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7788
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 01:13:45 pm »
+1

Cycle more to upgrade Travelers faster?
Logged

schadd

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 877
  • Shuffle iT Username: schadd
  • lockjaw
  • Respect: +1237
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2016, 01:23:11 pm »
+2

Cycle more to upgrade Travelers faster?
and as a bonus travelers make for a bunch of differently named cards
Logged
I thought you thought it was a slip because I said 'Jake's partners' instead of 'Roadrunner7671.'
6-8
he/him
beloved my john, i'll carry on

Witherweaver

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6437
  • Shuffle iT Username: Witherweaver
  • Respect: +7788
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2016, 01:25:57 pm »
+7

Cycle more to upgrade Travelers faster?
and as a bonus travelers make for a bunch of differently named cards

C-c-c-c-c-c---they display some nice synergy.
Logged

Max

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
  • Respect: +72
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2016, 01:51:20 pm »
0

Cycle more to upgrade Travelers faster?

As long as you can get them out of the trash with an inn or herald buy, sure.
Logged

LastFootnote

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6849
  • Shuffle iT Username: LastFootnote
  • Respect: +9375
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2016, 10:05:46 am »
+5

IRL, I've replaced it with a stronger version.

I'd be interested to hear what it is, if you don't mind sharing. We can hide in the Variants subforum if you don't want to do this in public.

You put one of the revealed cards back on your deck.
Logged

Burning Skull

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1116
  • Shuffle iT Username: Burning Skull
  • See you in the Outpost
  • Respect: +1759
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2016, 10:13:45 am »
+1

Harvest is a very special card. Chancellor is a powerhouse compared to it.

mameluke

  • Duke
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 366
  • Respect: +433
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2016, 10:51:24 am »
0

More fun: Reveal the top four cards of your deck; then trash them. +$2 per differently named card trashed.
Logged

werothegreat

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7978
  • Shuffle iT Username: werothegreat
  • Prepare to be boarded!
  • Respect: +9186
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2016, 11:15:01 am »
+1

More fun: Reveal the top four cards of your deck; then trash them. +$2 per differently named card trashed.

So that's why Doctors are so rich!
Logged
Contrary to popular belief, I do not run the wiki all on my own.  There are plenty of other people who are actively editing.  Go bother them!

Check out this fantasy epic adventure novel I wrote, the Broken Globe!  http://www.amazon.com/Broken-Globe-Tyr-Chronicles-Book-ebook/dp/B00LR1SZAS/

pacovf

  • Cartographer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3297
  • Multiediting poster
  • Respect: +3638
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2016, 12:16:23 pm »
+1

If Harvest said, "+$4, discard the top 4 cards of your deck" it would see about as much play.  Which tells us something about the virtue of reliability, as Merchant Ship has a very similar effect and is very strong.

Merchant ship is very strong?
Logged
pacovf has a neopets account.  It has 999 hours logged.  All his neopets are named "Jessica".  I guess that must be his ex.

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1575
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2016, 01:56:22 pm »
0

I wonder if this card would be to over-powered if it discarded 5 cards.
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 10580
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
  • Respect: +11002
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2016, 02:27:22 pm »
+1

I wonder if this card would be to over-powered if it discarded 5 cards.

I thought you meant from hand at first.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
  • Respect: +747
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2016, 02:54:56 pm »
0

Seriously, Harvest is not that bad. Same power level as merchant ship, both shine in different situations. Both have the same use : getting more money than gold if you can play enough actions.
Excluding Big Money games (which are rarely a thing nowadays), it's extremely easy to get $4 from your harvest. If you hit $2 or $1 (!) it means that you bought harvest too early. Otherwise, you will always get $3+.
And I'm not talking about tunnel or deck-inspection tricks here. I tend to think the biggest downside oh harvest is the lack of +buy, which will make you prefer something like baron, horse traders or wine merchant as a source of money. But if you already have enough +buy, harvest is usually better than those three. I think harvest is best in average-engine games, or junking attack games with slow trashers.
Logged

Seprix

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5414
  • Shuffle iT Username: Seprix
  • luck is a glitch
  • Respect: +3344
    • View Profile
    • The Border Village
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2016, 05:33:08 pm »
+4

If Harvest had +Buy, it would have been an interesting Baron/Wine Merch variant.
Logged
WOWIE I GUESS I HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING AROUND HERE
Join Dominion Discord

iguanaiguana

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 604
  • Respect: +1041
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2016, 11:55:35 pm »
+13

If Harvest had +Buy, it would have been an interesting Baron/Wine Merch variant.

If harvest cost 1$, it would have been a cool poor house variant.
Logged
You are my favorite reptile.
Igu is town or trying the hardest he ever has as scum.

Triumph44

  • Salvager
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 61
  • Respect: +47
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 10:26:24 pm »
0

Seriously, Harvest is not that bad. Same power level as merchant ship, both shine in different situations. Both have the same use : getting more money than gold if you can play enough actions.
Excluding Big Money games (which are rarely a thing nowadays), it's extremely easy to get $4 from your harvest. If you hit $2 or $1 (!) it means that you bought harvest too early. Otherwise, you will always get $3+.
And I'm not talking about tunnel or deck-inspection tricks here. I tend to think the biggest downside oh harvest is the lack of +buy, which will make you prefer something like baron, horse traders or wine merchant as a source of money. But if you already have enough +buy, harvest is usually better than those three. I think harvest is best in average-engine games, or junking attack games with slow trashers.

The problem is that Harvest, like Tribute and other 'turn cards over on a deck, get stuff' cards, is quite unpredictable - in a deck with good variation, you should almost always get at least $2, usually $3, and sometimes 44.  But you don't know before you take the Harvest plunge.  In addition, it sorta nombos with itself - early game, without Shelters, your deck doesn't have enough variation to buy it, and then middle or late game, you are probably buying better stuff with your 5s.  If it gave you +buy it might help you make your deck more amenable to Harvest. 

I love when I can find a place for it because I do enjoy making it work, but it's not optimal in most decks. 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 10:29:37 pm by Triumph44 »
Logged

Davio

  • 2012 Dutch Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
  • Respect: +3320
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 03:33:26 am »
0

Still, it's the triggering reshuffles aspects which annoys me the most.
Logged

BSG: Cagprezimal Adama
Mage Knight: Arythea

Burning Skull

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1116
  • Shuffle iT Username: Burning Skull
  • See you in the Outpost
  • Respect: +1759
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2016, 03:59:27 am »
+4

I guess Harvest will be good if you hit exactly five in that kingdom:

Duchess
Scout
Sea Hag
Marauder
Harvest
Hamlet
Loan
Adventurer
Fortune Teller
Squire

Accatitippi

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1145
  • Shuffle iT Username: Accatitippi
  • Silver is underraided
  • Respect: +1762
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2016, 09:38:41 am »
+4

Still, it's the triggering reshuffles aspects which annoys me the most.

It's actually not bad at all. Quite the opposite, in fact: it's a great way to make sure that the harvest misses the shuffle. :P
Logged

brokoli

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1103
  • Respect: +747
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2016, 12:50:05 pm »
0

The problem is that Harvest, like Tribute and other 'turn cards over on a deck, get stuff' cards, is quite unpredictable - in a deck with good variation, you should almost always get at least $2, usually $3, and sometimes 44.
It's a lot more predictable than tribute : you know it will be money. And from my experience, it's usually $4, sometimes $3.
Logged

Loempiaverkoper

  • Scout
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
  • Respect: +47
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2017, 07:09:17 am »
0

I didn't see this interaction mentioned yet.
I've used Harvest with Herald. Having my deck consist of only actions made the heralds super strong, and the harvest provided the virtual money.
Only had to worry about playing the harvests before I ran out of deck to draw.
Logged

weety4

  • Young Witch
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 139
  • Respect: +49
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2017, 01:33:08 pm »
0

In my opinion Harvest is mainly weak because afterwards three terminal Action cards have been published (Giant on average, Legionary, Courtier) which provide 3 and do something additional so Harvest sucks in comparison. Of course the other reason is that you mostly prefer non-terminal cards that provide coins.
Logged

jomini

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 948
  • Respect: +677
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2017, 07:04:34 pm »
0

The problem is that Harvest, like Tribute and other 'turn cards over on a deck, get stuff' cards, is quite unpredictable - in a deck with good variation, you should almost always get at least $2, usually $3, and sometimes 44.
It's a lot more predictable than tribute : you know it will be money. And from my experience, it's usually $4, sometimes $3.

This depends heavily on the board:
1. No trashing. Okay, you start with 7 coppers. Say you have N cards. When you hit a copper, how likely are you to hit a second copper? Well assuming I did the permutations correctly, you need an N of about 26 cards to have better than 50% odds assuming no other duplicates. Reality is worse because you will be getting duplicates of other cards. Gaining 16 cards is looking at around T9 on a quick board to actually start paying out at $4.
2. Low draw control. If you can discard cards, life is fine, but Harvest has the trouble that if your intend to draw your deck and if it ends up being in the bottom 4 cards itself, it gets progressively worse. Say I want to hit double province and I expect to hit $3.5 per Harvest. This means I need to hit either 4 and some treasure or 5 ... but if my deck is only 16 cards (say I opened Remake/Ratcatcher) then I will completely whiff on one Harvest each turn. Getting enough Harvests to ensure big VP buys becomes somewhat self-defeating as they draw down your expectation value for each Harvest play. A thinner deck where you can more reliably draw several Harvests is also a deck where you are much more likely to get a complete $0 whiff on one or more Harvests.
3. +action requirements. At best, Harvest costs 2 actions, 1 buy and 2 draw to yield a province. Gold costs 0 actions, 1 buy, and 3 draw. There are a lot of boards where you will buy villages, and not want to burn all that on a Harvest. With only one village pile, but with terminal draw, light trashing, and +buy it is pretty steep to skip out on the draw. After all Smithy x2/Silver x4 is 2 actions, 1 buy, and 0 net draw, yet you need a good reason to go for it instead ditching some silver and using a gold.


On the positive side:
1. It is generally easier to gain $5 actions over $6 golds. Yeah a few cards (Mine, Tax collector, etc.) can go direct to gold, but you can snag Harvest from University, Smasoning gold, and Remodeling Silver. When you can drop it into an effective deck it can save a turn or two in ramp up (e.g. Kc/Artificer/Margrave can drop in Harvest mid-turn and quickly add $12 to the buy total). University can be absolutely insane here where you go from maybe $5 worth of buying power to something like $20 in mid-turn.
2. There are now a good number of VP setups where it is preferable to gold: Vineyards, Arena, Bandit fort, Basilica, Colonnade, Defile shrine, Museum, Orchard, Tower, Triumphal arch, and maybe wall.
3. With deck top sorting cards, it can be useful to clear dross off the top. E.g. Apothecary leaves you some green and two random cards - discard and forget it. Top deck a province with a Count or Mandarin - dump it for cash. Even Pearl diver can make tiny marginal improvements on its ability to skip dross.

All told Harvest is just not THAT much cheaper than Gold. In the early game you will NOT be hitting better than Gold all that often and will have plenty of terminal silver hands. Worse when you do hit big hands, it will almost always be because you dumped a card you wanted to play (like a non-terminal trasher). Late game, you can save a $1 now instead of gold and later you can spend an action ... to net maybe $1 more than Gold. Sometimes +actions are that cheap and Harvest is not bad. Other times Gold or even silver is vastly more action and space efficient.
Logged

CPiGuy

  • Baron
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 58
  • Shuffle iT Username: CPiGuy
  • Respect: +80
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #47 on: September 11, 2017, 11:38:12 am »
+1

I used Harvest and some village (don't remember which) as my main source of income in a Bandit Fort game. I think it worked, because I won.
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 301
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +551
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2017, 04:55:54 pm »
0

Harvest has gotten a bad rap. I don't think it's the worst 5 in the game, and it might not even be in the bottom 10. In a decent treasureless engine with enough +actions it shouldn't be too hard to play it before you draw your whole deck. Or you can draw your deck, then discard some junk and harvest that. There are ways to make it work. At the very least, it's decent to pick up if there's nothing else going on on the board. That already makes it better than Cache, which you usually don't want even if there's nothing else going on.
Logged

ThetaSigma12

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1516
  • Shuffle iT Username: ThetaSigma12
  • Respect: +1575
    • View Profile
Re: rēs cornūcōpiae consultēmus: harvest
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2017, 05:33:40 pm »
+1

Harvest has gotten a bad rap.
I mean, it sucks! Adventures and Empires made deck-drawing much easier. And with 2E's of Intrigue and Base rolling out suddenly the contenders for worst dropped out. Compare Harvest to Liegonary, Harvest can only sometimes give more, and it doesn't have a killer attack! I'd definitely put it at the worst .
Logged
If you have a fan card you want to be created, just post about it here! I'd love to take a look at it.
Pages: 1 [2] 3  All
 

Page created in 0.131 seconds with 20 queries.