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Author Topic: Reserve-ifier  (Read 3376 times)

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tristan

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Reserve-ifier
« on: March 05, 2016, 07:52:03 am »
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I think it has already been posted here but I did not find it so my apologies in case this is redundant. A card or Event which reserve-ifies Action and Treasure cards might be interesting. Event makes more sense IMO though.

Whatever the card does normally is triggered when you call it. Treasures can be called at the beginning of the Buy phase and Actions should probably be called at the beginning of the turn. One could make it stronger via allowing Actions cards to be called at the beginning of the turn or immediately after having resolved an Action.

Reserve-ifier
Event - 3$
+1 Buy
Put a Treasure or Action card from your hand on your Tavern mat. If it is a Treasure you may call it at the beginning of your Buy phase and execute the normal effect of the card. If it is an Action you may call it at the beginning of your turn and execute the normal effect of the card.

Obviously the wording, especially "execute the normal effect of the card, is just a first rough sketch can be significantly improved upon.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 09:48:10 am by tristan »
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AdrianHealey

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 08:00:49 am »
+1

I think it has already been posted here but I did not find it so my apologies in case this is redundant. A card or Event which reserve-ifies Action and Treasure cards might be interesting. Event makes more sense IMO though.

Whatever the card does normally is triggered when you call it. Treasures can be called at the beginning of the Buy phase and Actions should probably be called at the beginning of the turn. One could make it stronger via allowing Actions cards to be called at the beginning of the turn or immediately after having resolved an Action.

Reserve-ifier
Event - 4$
Put a Treasure or Action card from your hand on your Tavern mat. If it is a Treasure you may call it at the beginning of your Buy phase and execute the normal effect of the card. If it is an Action you may call it at the beginning of your turn and execute the normal effect of the card.

Obviously the wording, especially "execute the normal effect of the card, is just a first rough sketch can be significantly improved upon.

Sounds like fun. Serious buff to cards that are sometimes as dead as dead can be (counting house, for example), but it's an obvious buff to all cards.
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faust

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2016, 08:26:07 am »
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Seems similar to Save. For Treasures, Save will almost always be better I think (unless you want to use this as pseudo-trashing, which would be pretty expensive). For Actions, it's stronger since you don't need to spend an Action. I think it could be fine, but maybe it should have a +buy to make it worthwile more often.

From a technical PoV, this has some tracking issues: In games with this and Miser, it's unclear whether Coppers on your Tavern mat come from Miser or Reserve-ifier. And if you use Reserve-ifier on a Reserve card, all hell breaks loose.
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Asper

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2016, 08:36:45 am »
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I think it has already been posted here but I did not find it so my apologies in case this is redundant. A card or Event which reserve-ifies Action and Treasure cards might be interesting. Event makes more sense IMO though.

Whatever the card does normally is triggered when you call it. Treasures can be called at the beginning of the Buy phase and Actions should probably be called at the beginning of the turn. One could make it stronger via allowing Actions cards to be called at the beginning of the turn or immediately after having resolved an Action.

Reserve-ifier
Event - 4$
Put a Treasure or Action card from your hand on your Tavern mat. If it is a Treasure you may call it at the beginning of your Buy phase and execute the normal effect of the card. If it is an Action you may call it at the beginning of your turn and execute the normal effect of the card.

Obviously the wording, especially "execute the normal effect of the card, is just a first rough sketch can be significantly improved upon.

Sounds like fun. Serious buff to cards that are sometimes as dead as dead can be (counting house, for example), but it's an obvious buff to all cards.

I think it sounds very weak. If it gave +1 Card +1 Action, i could accept it as a Village variant that delays its second action. Even then it wouldn't be strictly better than Village and could probably cost $3.

I also don't like the "execute" wording and think playing the other card would be better - you could make the card itself a Reserve or just use a special mat:

Delayer, $2, Action - Reserve
+ 1 Card
+1 Action
You may set aside an Action or Treasure card from your handd. If you do, put this on your Tavern Mat.
---
At the start of your turn you may call this to play the set-aside card.


Delayer, $3, Action
+1 Card
+1 Action
You may put an Action or Treasure card from your hand on your Delay Mat.
(You may play Action cards on your Delay Mat at the start of your turn, and Treasure cards on it at the start of your Buy phase)

Personally, i'd probably think about limiting it to either Treasure or Action for simplicity.
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Asper

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2016, 08:40:39 am »
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Seems similar to Save. For Treasures, Save will almost always be better I think (unless you want to use this as pseudo-trashing, which would be pretty expensive). For Actions, it's stronger since you don't need to spend an Action. I think it could be fine, but maybe it should have a +buy to make it worthwile more often.

From a technical PoV, this has some tracking issues: In games with this and Miser, it's unclear whether Coppers on your Tavern mat come from Miser or Reserve-ifier. And if you use Reserve-ifier on a Reserve card, all hell breaks loose.

Use Reservifier on Reservifier to get pseudo-CotR and play any card at the start of your turn.

Also, i think the concept is similar to Native Village to some extend.
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tristan

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2016, 09:47:50 am »
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Seems similar to Save. For Treasures, Save will almost always be better I think (unless you want to use this as pseudo-trashing, which would be pretty expensive). For Actions, it's stronger since you don't need to spend an Action. I think it could be fine, but maybe it should have a +buy to make it worthwile more often.
Unless you wanna trash the Treasure Save is worse as it is vulnerable to handsize attacks and as you cannot choose the moment at which the Treasure comes back.
Totally agree about the extra buy.

I think it sounds very weak. If it gave +1 Card +1 Action, i could accept it as a Village variant that delays its second action. Even then it wouldn't be strictly better than Village and could probably cost $3.
[...]
Personally, i'd probably think about limiting it to either Treasure or Action for simplicity.
Well, if it is weak it should definitely not be made even weaker via limiting it to only one type.
Concerning whether it should be an Event or a card, if you use it frequently it should be the latter whereas if you only use it from time to time it should be the former. But the card version would have to cost more than 2$ as it is strictly superior to Haven.
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Asper

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2016, 10:30:43 am »
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Seems similar to Save. For Treasures, Save will almost always be better I think (unless you want to use this as pseudo-trashing, which would be pretty expensive). For Actions, it's stronger since you don't need to spend an Action. I think it could be fine, but maybe it should have a +buy to make it worthwile more often.
Unless you wanna trash the Treasure Save is worse as it is vulnerable to handsize attacks and as you cannot choose the moment at which the Treasure comes back.
Totally agree about the extra buy.

I think it sounds very weak. If it gave +1 Card +1 Action, i could accept it as a Village variant that delays its second action. Even then it wouldn't be strictly better than Village and could probably cost $3.
[...]
Personally, i'd probably think about limiting it to either Treasure or Action for simplicity.
Well, if it is weak it should definitely not be made even weaker via limiting it to only one type.
Concerning whether it should be an Event or a card, if you use it frequently it should be the latter whereas if you only use it from time to time it should be the former. But the card version would have to cost more than 2$ as it is strictly superior to Haven.

That depends on the implementation. If the card itself goes on the Tavern Mat, it's not strictly better. It's also not strictly better if limited to one type, and actually not even if limited to Action or Treasure (although i admit that last version would be better than Haven most of the time).

I was not suggesting to limit it to one type for power reasons, but because it makes the card simpler (and easier to compare to existing cards, like Villages or other nonterminals).
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eHalcyon

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2016, 11:06:01 am »
+3

I've definitely thought about this concept and mentioned it in passing (probably in one of the preview or expansion announcement threads).  Controlled Native Village variants are something that I keep returning to (I think the first fan card idea I ever posted on f.ds was one).

I'd write it this way:

Happy Hour
$4 - Event
+1 Buy
Put a card from your hand on your Tavern mat.

In games using this, at the start of your turn, you may call a non-Reserve card on your Tavern mat, to play it.


So many commas just to follow convention. :P

This allows you to:
- play Treasure in the action phase, which simplifies the card while also adding neat combo potential.
- play Miser'd Copper if you want to.  It would reduce the value of Miser for coins, of course.
- put a Reserve card onto the Tavern mat from your hand without playing it.
- insta-Island VP for the same cost as Island, minus 2VP from an actual Island.

And it lets you play pure Victory cards from the Tavern.  I'm not sure what to do about that.  Possibilities:

- Leave it.  Playing VP would result in the card returning to your deck, nothing more.
- Leave it.  You would just fail to play the card and it would stay on your Tavern mat.
- Restrict the event to non-Victory cards (losing the Island effect for VP).
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2016, 08:03:51 pm »
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This is my 'reserve-ifier' card:


You're probably right that it would work better as an event though.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2016, 08:32:41 pm »
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What if it's a reserve card that you put on your tavern mat?
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GendoIkari

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2016, 08:34:42 pm »
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What if it's a reserve card that you put on your tavern mat?

Then it's just like a normal reserve card that was played and moved to your mat.
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faust

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 08:35:17 pm »
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- Restrict the event to non-Victory cards (losing the Island effect for VP).

Would have to restrict to non-Curses as well. Also, something something Inheritance Estate.
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tristan

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2016, 02:50:16 am »
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I've definitely thought about this concept and mentioned it in passing (probably in one of the preview or expansion announcement threads).  Controlled Native Village variants are something that I keep returning to (I think the first fan card idea I ever posted on f.ds was one).

I'd write it this way:

Happy Hour
$4 - Event
+1 Buy
Put a card from your hand on your Tavern mat.

In games using this, at the start of your turn, you may call a non-Reserve card on your Tavern mat, to play it.


So many commas just to follow convention. :P

This allows you to:
- play Treasure in the action phase, which simplifies the card while also adding neat combo potential.
- play Miser'd Copper if you want to.  It would reduce the value of Miser for coins, of course.
- put a Reserve card onto the Tavern mat from your hand without playing it.
- insta-Island VP for the same cost as Island, minus 2VP from an actual Island.

And it lets you play pure Victory cards from the Tavern.  I'm not sure what to do about that.  Possibilities:

- Leave it.  Playing VP would result in the card returning to your deck, nothing more.
- Leave it.  You would just fail to play the card and it would stay on your Tavern mat.
- Restrict the event to non-Victory cards (losing the Island effect for VP).
That's the best wording so far and I also do not think that while there is a theoretical rule issue with playing pure Victory cards it is unlikely to ever happen. Normally you do not want a dead card back into your deck. OK, if there is Salavager you might wanna have that Province in your deck to trash it and end the game quicker if you are leading. So I guess the first option makes sense, playing a Victory card basically does nothing. I think it would make sense to immediately discard a "player" Victory card.
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wachsmuth

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2016, 12:39:49 am »
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And it lets you play pure Victory cards from the Tavern.  I'm not sure what to do about that.  Possibilities:

- Leave it.  Playing VP would result in the card returning to your deck, nothing more.

To get rid of Curses -VP, you Happy Hour them onto the Reserve mat, then play them on the following turn and trash them with Bonfire.

- Restrict the event to non-Victory cards (losing the Island effect for VP).

Would have to restrict to non-Curses as well. Also, something something Inheritance Estate.

And, awkwardly, Hovel. And any other future cards that are not Action, Treasure or Victory.
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eHalcyon

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2016, 12:52:43 am »
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And it lets you play pure Victory cards from the Tavern.  I'm not sure what to do about that.  Possibilities:

- Leave it.  Playing VP would result in the card returning to your deck, nothing more.

To get rid of Curses -VP, you Happy Hour them onto the Reserve mat, then play them on the following turn and trash them with Bonfire.

- Restrict the event to non-Victory cards (losing the Island effect for VP).

Would have to restrict to non-Curses as well. Also, something something Inheritance Estate.

And, awkwardly, Hovel. And any other future cards that are not Action, Treasure or Victory.

So then the easier way would be to say "you may call a non-Reserve Action or Treasure".  Dropping "non-Reserve" entirely could be a possibility to simplify from there, but it would make Wine Merchant and some potential future Reserve cards hilariously broken, so that's probably not a good idea.

I think the two "leave it" options would be best.  Not sure which is better though.
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BlackHole

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2016, 01:18:35 pm »
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What about an event that lets you put a reserve token on an action-supply-pile? It could be like: when you play an action card from that pile, put it on your tavern mat. At the beginning of your turn or after resolving an action you may call that card to do the normal effect of it. I think that could lead to interesting strategic decisions - a bit like the tactician thing (one bad turn and one good turn are better than two mediocre turns), and big mega turns, especially when there are no villages around.
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tristan

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2016, 03:39:41 am »
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What about an event that lets you put a reserve token on an action-supply-pile? It could be like: when you play an action card from that pile, put it on your tavern mat. At the beginning of your turn or after resolving an action you may call that card to do the normal effect of it. I think that could lead to interesting strategic decisions - a bit like the tactician thing (one bad turn and one good turn are better than two mediocre turns), and big mega turns, especially when there are no villages around.
Definitely a good idea. Difference between this and the hitherto considered Save variant is that this is terminal (you gotta play the card, it does nothing, then it lands on the Tavern mat) but reservifies all cards of a pile whereas the Save variant is nonterminal (you can reserve-ify a card from your hand) but has to be bought each time.

Your card is definitely more strategic and thus more interesting.
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ConMan

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Re: Reserve-ifier
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2016, 07:01:52 pm »
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What about an event that lets you put a reserve token on an action-supply-pile? It could be like: when you play an action card from that pile, put it on your tavern mat. At the beginning of your turn or after resolving an action you may call that card to do the normal effect of it. I think that could lead to interesting strategic decisions - a bit like the tactician thing (one bad turn and one good turn are better than two mediocre turns), and big mega turns, especially when there are no villages around.
I think it would work best like Inheritance, otherwise you have to deal with the situation where you put the card on your tavern mat, then unreservify it.
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