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Hearthstone Noob
« on: February 08, 2016, 01:14:53 am »
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So I just got through the introductory quest in Hearthstone. It was, as it says, very easy to learn, but what getting better and having fun tips do you have for the Hearthstone noob?
Basically it seems almost the same in gameplay and mechanics as MTG (which I've only played like 3 games of). What are the important differences?

BTW, my username is TheLibrarian (because LibraryAdventurer wouldn't fit).

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2016, 02:02:16 am »
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The important differences are that there is way more emphasis on tempo and less emphasis on card interactions. Also, minions are better than creatures because they also function as removal, big minions function as (slow) mass removal, and HS doesn't have any good removal spells.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2016, 08:51:15 am »
+2

Tempo is the single most important thing in Hearthstone, meaning that with most decks, all beginner's decks in particular, you should value board control over everything else. As long as you cannot kill your opponent in one turn (or your hero doesn't die next turn) heroes' hitpoints are secondary. Since on your own turns you can attack your opponent's hero and minions almost unhamperedly (spells cannot be cast from hand like instants in MTG) you should always seek to make the best possible "trade", i.e. you attack enemy minions with your own so that yours survive with as much health as possible while killing off their minions. If you can use spells or weapons to do so, use those primarily as your minions are more valuable. Your first weeks or months of playing HS may be very minion-centered (as most cards are minions) so it's important you learn to trade minions optimally. 90 per cent of arena games consist of just that.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2016, 09:01:51 am »
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One of the big things about higher level play is knowing when not to play cards.  If you already have three minions on the board to threaten your opponent, you usually don't need to drop more down, particularly if you're facing a class with a good board clear (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Consecrate, sometimes Twisting Nether).  If you hold back, you can plop those minions down after they use the clear, which is going to use up most of their mana from their turn anyway.  If you had just thrown down everything, you would have neither a board nor a hand.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 09:23:43 am »
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One of the big things about higher level play is knowing when not to play cards.  If you already have three minions on the board to threaten your opponent, you usually don't need to drop more down, particularly if you're facing a class with a good board clear (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Consecrate, sometimes Twisting Nether).  If you hold back, you can plop those minions down after they use the clear, which is going to use up most of their mana from their turn anyway.  If you had just thrown down everything, you would have neither a board nor a hand.

That's good advice, but it's way less important than it is in Magic. In Hearthstone, it is more often the case that you just need the tempo boost from playing your cards. This is especially the case with spells; in Magic, you can hold on to your Doom Blade until your opponent has a really good target for it, but in Hearthstone, spending a turn not doing anything can be way more detrimental than not getting good value out of your removal. This is, again, because Hearthstone doesn't have any good board clears.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 09:24:47 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2016, 09:41:08 am »
+1

One of the big things about higher level play is knowing when not to play cards.  If you already have three minions on the board to threaten your opponent, you usually don't need to drop more down, particularly if you're facing a class with a good board clear (Flamestrike, Blizzard, Consecrate, sometimes Twisting Nether).  If you hold back, you can plop those minions down after they use the clear, which is going to use up most of their mana from their turn anyway.  If you had just thrown down everything, you would have neither a board nor a hand.

That's good advice, but it's way less important than it is in Magic. In Hearthstone, it is more often the case that you just need the tempo boost from playing your cards. This is especially the case with spells; in Magic, you can hold on to your Doom Blade until your opponent has a really good target for it, but in Hearthstone, spending a turn not doing anything can be way more detrimental than not getting good value out of your removal. This is, again, because Hearthstone doesn't have any good board clears.
It's also worth mentioning that the value of playing around board clears also varies with game mode.  In Arena you should play around Common board clears like FS and Consecrate most of the time, particularly at high wins.  In Constructed you need to get a sense for what decks are around and what you're playing against so you can work out whether the deck you're facing will have the card you're worried about.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2016, 10:33:18 pm »
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thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2016, 11:40:41 pm »
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The important differences are that there is way more emphasis on tempo and less emphasis on card interactions. Also, minions are better than creatures because they also function as removal, big minions function as (slow) mass removal, and HS doesn't have any good removal spells.

This change is basically the main reason I like Hearthstone better than MTG actually - for all the emphasis on "back-to-basics" that WoTC puts out, the game isn't really primarily about the creatures and doing cool things with them. Here it seems to be, and the lack of good removal spells lets people play out their decks without feeling the bad feeling that comes from a spell being countered (yeah, I know the secret, but that's easier to play around) or just killed (Priest seems to be one of the more MTG-style classes, which is probably why I dislike it)
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2016, 02:55:49 am »
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thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2016, 08:02:48 am »
+1

thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.

Nowadays when I had friends of mine introduced to Hearthstone, I noticed a considerable amount of beginner players having good cards already like Knife Juggler, Implosion and Naxxramas cards, even on the lowest rank! You'd have to play exceptionally well to be able to deal with that card quality using only basic cards. But maybe this trend is only on the European server, or it was a bad coincidence.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 11:40:12 am »
+1

thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.

Nowadays when I had friends of mine introduced to Hearthstone, I noticed a considerable amount of beginner players having good cards already like Knife Juggler, Implosion and Naxxramas cards, even on the lowest rank! You'd have to play exceptionally well to be able to deal with that card quality using only basic cards. But maybe this trend is only on the European server, or it was a bad coincidence.

The other day I was bored and played a game on Europe (not my server) with a basic deck, and at rank 25 my opponent played coin turn 5 golden Emperor turn 6 golden Dr. Boom.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2016, 11:43:39 am »
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thanks for the tips

I'm still working on unlocking the different classes, so I haven't played any pvp yet.

It's very possible to start playing ranked straight away, with the basic decks if you have to.  The ladder is set up so that you're almost guaranteed to play other new players at first, and you gain experience for playing cards whether you win or lose.

Nowadays when I had friends of mine introduced to Hearthstone, I noticed a considerable amount of beginner players having good cards already like Knife Juggler, Implosion and Naxxramas cards, even on the lowest rank! You'd have to play exceptionally well to be able to deal with that card quality using only basic cards. But maybe this trend is only on the European server, or it was a bad coincidence.

If you have direct experience then I'll defer to that.  I was only going on the fact that you can't reverse into rank 25 (except by staying away for a few months) and that I believe that there is a literal separate pool for new players in the matchmaking algorithm.  It's possible that is only in casual though, or that the system has changed from when I saw it explained.

PPE: Yikes.
The other day I was bored and played a game on Europe (not my server) with a basic deck, and at rank 25 my opponent played coin turn 5 golden Emperor turn 6 golden Dr. Boom.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2016, 11:50:21 am »
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There are probably players who haven't played Ranked in a while on the low ranks. They'll obviously get higher eventually, but if there are a lot of other such players on the low ranks, it takes much longer, especially since there's RNG involved and then there can be new returning veterans. For example, I can consistently get to rank 5 or higher if I try, but I've been playing Arena or nothing at all lately so I'm somewhere around rank 20 at the moment too.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2016, 02:50:04 pm »
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BTW, my username is TheLibrarian (because LibraryAdventurer wouldn't fit).

Incidentally, if you want people to add you then they need your full battletag (including the four numbers after your name).
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 07:43:04 pm »
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okay, I didn't notice them until you pointed them out.

It's TheLibrarian 1285

finished unlocking the classes now.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2016, 10:34:38 pm »
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Won 3 games with my first arena deck (paladin). kind of. Really I won 2, because the first game I played the opponent did absolutely nothing the whole time so it wasn't much of a game.

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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2016, 11:26:23 pm »
+1

Won 3 games with my first arena deck (paladin). kind of. Really I won 2, because the first game I played the opponent did absolutely nothing the whole time so it wasn't much of a game.

Congratulations on your first 2 arena victories :) So are you enjoying the game?
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 11:30:24 pm »
+1

yup  it's fun

ugh. went 0-3 with my second arena deck because I got shafted by the cards it gave me.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:51:25 am by LibraryAdventurer »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2016, 02:11:59 am »
+1

It's probably a good idea to not play Arena until you've played enough Constructed to get an idea about how the strategy works, what cards to expect, etc. Also, use HearthArena when you do think that you're ready. It's expensive to go on Arena unless you average more than 3 wins.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2016, 11:59:03 am »
+1

yup  it's fun

ugh. went 0-3 with my second arena deck because I got shafted by the cards it gave me.

It's difficult to get such a bad draft that you go 0-3. Almost any deck has the potential to go 3-5 wins if played right/drafted correctly. With practice you'll be able to get more wins in arena even with poor decks. Also you get better at drafting. You're not drafting for syngery mots of the time. I used to draft priests and avoid spiteful smith because it was a weapon card. But it's actually a decent pick, even in priest. Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2016, 12:39:26 pm »
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Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 06:17:19 pm »
+1

Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

Well, you CAN play any class in arena and get at least 4-5 wins even with the weak ones. You just need a lot of experience to be successful with those. "Weak" arena classes are characterized by their "zero-tempo" hero powers (among other things), i.e. their powers do not change the current board state.
Priest can be an exception with the right minions already in play.
Shaman's hero power is just terrible and his good cards are mostly rare and epic and don't combo very well (it's probably the worst class overall and honestly needs a rework).
Warlock and Hunter, however, do have several very powerful common cards. With those classes you might need to draft a little more low-curve (choose more minions costing 2 or 3 mana than usual) and only use their hero powers in the late game. Then you should be able to get a decent number of wins with them easily.
Warrior, similarly, has got some good common cards including weapons which he needs to establish an early-game lead but he needs more support for the late game like taunts and heals (because he took so much damage from attacking with weapons). If your opponent is a Paladin or Mage and also has a strong late game, you'll probably lose with Warrior. And you encounter a lot of Paladins and Mages in arena so I don't recommend picking Warrior.
When you are an experienced player, you should just pick whatever class you feel like in arena. Unless your draft is terrible, you should always be able to get 4 wins or so.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2016, 06:41:29 pm »
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Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

Well, you CAN play any class in arena and get at least 4-5 wins even with the weak ones. You just need a lot of experience to be successful with those. "Weak" arena classes are characterized by their "zero-tempo" hero powers (among other things), i.e. their powers do not change the current board state.
Priest can be an exception with the right minions already in play.
Shaman's hero power is just terrible and his good cards are mostly rare and epic and don't combo very well (it's probably the worst class overall and honestly needs a rework).
Warlock and Hunter, however, do have several very powerful common cards. With those classes you might need to draft a little more low-curve (choose more minions costing 2 or 3 mana than usual) and only use their hero powers in the late game. Then you should be able to get a decent number of wins with them easily.
Warrior, similarly, has got some good common cards including weapons which he needs to establish an early-game lead but he needs more support for the late game like taunts and heals (because he took so much damage from attacking with weapons). If your opponent is a Paladin or Mage and also has a strong late game, you'll probably lose with Warrior. And you encounter a lot of Paladins and Mages in arena so I don't recommend picking Warrior.
When you are an experienced player, you should just pick whatever class you feel like in arena. Unless your draft is terrible, you should always be able to get 4 wins or so.

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 06:43:02 pm by Awaclus »
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2016, 06:54:14 pm »
0

Also knowing which classes are good is a HUGE factor in arena. Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Druid.

Yeah, pretty much in that order, too (best to worst). And you should never play Priest or Hunter, and Warlock and Shaman are kind of weak too.

Well, you CAN play any class in arena and get at least 4-5 wins even with the weak ones. You just need a lot of experience to be successful with those. "Weak" arena classes are characterized by their "zero-tempo" hero powers (among other things), i.e. their powers do not change the current board state.
Priest can be an exception with the right minions already in play.
Shaman's hero power is just terrible and his good cards are mostly rare and epic and don't combo very well (it's probably the worst class overall and honestly needs a rework).
Warlock and Hunter, however, do have several very powerful common cards. With those classes you might need to draft a little more low-curve (choose more minions costing 2 or 3 mana than usual) and only use their hero powers in the late game. Then you should be able to get a decent number of wins with them easily.
Warrior, similarly, has got some good common cards including weapons which he needs to establish an early-game lead but he needs more support for the late game like taunts and heals (because he took so much damage from attacking with weapons). If your opponent is a Paladin or Mage and also has a strong late game, you'll probably lose with Warrior. And you encounter a lot of Paladins and Mages in arena so I don't recommend picking Warrior.
When you are an experienced player, you should just pick whatever class you feel like in arena. Unless your draft is terrible, you should always be able to get 4 wins or so.

If you can average 4 wins with Priest, you can average 8 with Rogue. Rogue is insanely strong (although it's also very tricky to play) right now. There isn't really any good reason to ever pick Priest or Hunter no matter how good you are, if you're trying to maximize your chances of winning a lot.

So I guess that means when you open arena and get offered Hunter, Priest and Shaman you stop playing arena forever? I was talking about the capabilities of the weak classes in arena, and sometimes you have to pick one of those. You might even feel like picking a weak class because you're tired of always picking Pala and Mage. Never did I say Priest and Hunter could surpass them but I wasn't talking about maximizing your win rate.
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Re: Hearthstone Noob
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2016, 06:57:19 pm »
0

So I guess that means when you open arena and get offered Hunter, Priest and Shaman you stop playing arena forever?

Well, then you just pick Shaman.
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