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Author Topic: Dominion: Seasons  (Read 41178 times)

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Drab Emordnilap

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2016, 05:42:41 pm »
+1

You and Cookielord played IRL with them?

No, on Tabletop Simulator.

How does this work with something like Dominion? Is there a Dominion client that's a plugin to this? If so, isn't that in conflict with Making Fun?
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2016, 05:53:16 pm »
+5

Thanks for all the signs of appreciation, guys! With this support I am most eager, and proud, to reveal the second card of the set.



As we all know from countless games of Dominion, the excessive troubles of war can be quite exhausting. From time to time, the nobles and liege lords like to spend a nice vacation at a restorative place. Rustic houses at a clean-water lake, trees and birds and stuffÖ thatís a place you spend your opening $4 for.

Sanitarium is the draw-up-to-x village that for some reason still doesnít exist in Dominion. It comes with a very engine-friendly on-gain bonus that only works in Spring. Otherwise it would be overpowered. The trash-on-gain incentivizes you to gain Sanitarium during the opening and, with weak or no other trashing around, as many of them as possible on turns 3 to 5. Of course thatís not always going to be the best strategy but most of the time, Sanitariumís unique abilities will make the decision not to prematurely gain a village non-trivial.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2016, 06:00:50 pm »
0

You and Cookielord played IRL with them?

No, on Tabletop Simulator.

How does this work with something like Dominion? Is there a Dominion client that's a plugin to this? If so, isn't that in conflict with Making Fun?

TS allows mocking up almost any game, and i personally use it as a means of testing a boardgame prototype a friend and i have been working on. It's imaginable Dominion Online and TS might have a conflict sooner or later, although i'm not sure how the boardgame industry as a whole stands on that matter. Apparently some think it's publicity and embrace the idea. Either way, the use cases of both softwares vary a lot. While Tabletop Simulator is fine to test stuff you made yourself (because there's no better way to do it), it's not a comparable experience to an actual Dominion Software. It's pretty slow, and still not as well-arranged as IRL games.

Either way, the issue of TS and Dominion Online is an interesting topic, and i think there's room for discussions here. But maybe not in this thread, if that's okay.

Roadrunner7671

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2016, 06:03:36 pm »
+2

Very stunning art, and nice concept! Is like a village + x (think Farming, Mining, Port) but can have great potential in engine decks. I want to focus on the art more. The pink backgroud with the majestic colors? You guys really came through. I've said this before, but when more cards get released, I hope Donald has a comment or two to make. This looks like it could be an actually good expansion set!
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2016, 06:15:34 pm »
0

Very stunning art, and nice concept! Is like a village + x (think Farming, Mining, Port) but can have great potential in engine decks. I want to focus on the art more. The pink backgroud with the majestic colors? You guys really came through. I've said this before, but when more cards get released, I hope Donald has a comment or two to make. This looks like it could be an actually good expansion set!

Thanks. Although the potential depends a bit on what kind of engine you want. With 6 cards in hand, it's a Necropolis.

Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2016, 06:18:59 pm »
+4

Very stunning art, and nice concept! Is like a village + x (think Farming, Mining, Port) but can have great potential in engine decks. I want to focus on the art more. The pink backgroud with the majestic colors? You guys really came through. I've said this before, but when more cards get released, I hope Donald has a comment or two to make. This looks like it could be an actually good expansion set!

Thanks. Although the potential depends a bit on what kind of engine you want. With 6 cards in hand, it's a Necropolis.

But with Necropolis in hand, it's a Lost City ;)
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2016, 06:36:13 pm »
0

Very stunning art, and nice concept! Is like a village + x (think Farming, Mining, Port) but can have great potential in engine decks. I want to focus on the art more. The pink backgroud with the majestic colors? You guys really came through. I've said this before, but when more cards get released, I hope Donald has a comment or two to make. This looks like it could be an actually good expansion set!

Thanks. Although the potential depends a bit on what kind of engine you want. With 6 cards in hand, it's a Necropolis.
Then don't have six cards!
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Erick648

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2016, 06:41:05 pm »
+1

Sanitarium is the draw-up-to-x village that for some reason still doesnít exist in Dominion. It comes with a very engine-friendly on-gain bonus that only works in Spring. Otherwise it would be overpowered. The trash-on-gain incentivizes you to gain Sanitarium during the opening and, with weak or no other trashing around, as many of them as possible on turns 3 to 5. Of course thatís not always going to be the best strategy but most of the time, Sanitariumís unique abilities will make the decision not to prematurely gain a village non-trivial.
I always assumed there was a reason why non-terminal draw-to-x doesn't exist.  With an action-based deck and a card that lets you discard non-actions, you can easily go through your deck each turn (and the fact that this is a village makes it easier to use non-drawing terminals as payload).  I'm not sure this is enough to be overpowered, but it will definitely require testing.
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Co0kieL0rd

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2016, 06:46:24 pm »
0

Sanitarium is the draw-up-to-x village that for some reason still doesnít exist in Dominion. It comes with a very engine-friendly on-gain bonus that only works in Spring. Otherwise it would be overpowered. The trash-on-gain incentivizes you to gain Sanitarium during the opening and, with weak or no other trashing around, as many of them as possible on turns 3 to 5. Of course thatís not always going to be the best strategy but most of the time, Sanitariumís unique abilities will make the decision not to prematurely gain a village non-trivial.
I always assumed there was a reason why non-terminal draw-to-x doesn't exist.  With an action-based deck and a card that lets you discard non-actions, you can easily go through your deck each turn (and the fact that this is a village makes it easier to use non-drawing terminals as payload).  I'm not sure this is enough to be overpowered, but it will definitely require testing.

I think we had about 10 test games with Sanitarium. It is definitely quite strong and there are powerful enablers. I'm really not sure if it's overpowered. It seems like it's weaker than a normal village at least as often as it's stronger. But maybe we didn't try to exploit its advantages enough. Who knows what a pro Dominion player would be capable of with this card?
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Roots and Renewal - this set is about interacting with the Supply and manipulating your opening turns
More, non-coherent cards I made
Flash cards - trying out a new concept

AJD

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2016, 08:26:31 pm »
+1

Very stunning art, and nice concept! Is like a village + x (think Farming, Mining, Port) but can have great potential in engine decks. I want to focus on the art more. The pink backgroud with the majestic colors? You guys really came through. I've said this before, but when more cards get released, I hope Donald has a comment or two to make. This looks like it could be an actually good expansion set!

The art is kind of... autumny for a card that gives a bonus during spring, isn't it?
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2016, 08:26:58 pm »
+2

I always assumed there was a reason why non-terminal draw-to-x doesn't exist.

(Minion, sort of)
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Roadrunner7671

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2016, 08:31:15 pm »
+2

Very stunning art, and nice concept! Is like a village + x (think Farming, Mining, Port) but can have great potential in engine decks. I want to focus on the art more. The pink backgroud with the majestic colors? You guys really came through. I've said this before, but when more cards get released, I hope Donald has a comment or two to make. This looks like it could be an actually good expansion set!

The art is kind of... autumny for a card that gives a bonus during spring, isn't it?
Shhhhh....
Just look at the pretty coors. Just relax and look at them. You are getting very sleepy...
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eHalcyon

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2016, 08:52:59 pm »
+3

Does the basic idea for Sanitarium come from WanderingWinder's Production Village (from the mini-set design contest) or did it come up independently?

There is some playtesting discussion for Production Village here, which may be interesting to consider.  The card is the same, except Sanitarium has a bonus on-gain effect.  I'm not sure how big a difference that effect makes.  Obviously it's a straight buff, but it could be a balance improvement over PV by improving consistency.
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2016, 09:04:03 pm »
0

Does the basic idea for Sanitarium come from WanderingWinder's Production Village (from the mini-set design contest) or did it come up independently?

There is some playtesting discussion for Production Village here, which may be interesting to consider.  The card is the same, except Sanitarium has a bonus on-gain effect.  I'm not sure how big a difference that effect makes.  Obviously it's a straight buff, but it could be a balance improvement over PV by improving consistency.

I suppose a Village with fixed draw is one of the simple but not yet existing ideas you just run into sooner or later. I don't think i actively knew PV existed when i first came up with such a card, but i knew when we were talking about how to make Sanitarium more interesting than just a Village that trashes on spring-gain. As the draw-to is much worse than Village for simple drawing engines, i think it's fine if it's better in other deck types. Personally, i think it's fairly priced.

AdrianHealey

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2016, 09:39:02 pm »
+1

You might change snow witch to something like: 'In Fall or Winter: if this is the first time this turn you play Snow Witch, all other players get a curse' to avoid the 'play 5 witches in a good engine' problem identified before.
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dedicateddan

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2016, 12:01:51 am »
+1

Nice design, bravo!
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2016, 12:06:17 am »
+2

Sanitarium is also similar to my Restored Village (which people also compared to Production Village), which is to say I like it but I probably won't use it because I already use a very similar card.


PS: I wish I'd heard of Tabletop simulator when that 50% sale was happening last month...

tristan

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2016, 01:46:26 am »
+1

Production Village obviously cannot cost 5$ so 4$ is the right price. Production Village and Outpost is a crazy combo which I encountered in one game (in general Production Village combos of course best with all non-draw terminals such that you draw 2 cards when you PV the second time) and overall I feel that the card is a very good 4$ village, definitely better (on average) than Farming Village and Mining Village, but not overpowered.

As the on-gain bonus of Sanitarium is small and season-conditional I think that Sanitarium should also be OK at 4.
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2016, 07:15:21 am »
+1

You might change snow witch to something like: 'In Fall or Winter: if this is the first time this turn you play Snow Witch, all other players get a curse' to avoid the 'play 5 witches in a good engine' problem identified before.

Or we could give the Curse in hand so the other players in line do their first Fall turn under roughly the same conditions. Makes it very easy to trash the Curses with something like Forge, though.

For now i think we should keep it as is, but i guess there are a few options if it doesn't work out. Just giving a single Curse is pretty bad, i think.

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2016, 07:23:54 am »
+1

You might change snow witch to something like: 'In Fall or Winter: if this is the first time this turn you play Snow Witch, all other players get a curse' to avoid the 'play 5 witches in a good engine' problem identified before.

Or we could give the Curse in hand so the other players in line do their first Fall turn under roughly the same conditions. Makes it very easy to trash the Curses with something like Forge, though.

For now i think we should keep it as is, but i guess there are a few options if it doesn't work out. Just giving a single Curse is pretty bad, i think.

I actually like this idea quite a lot. I mean, Watchtower makes the cursing equally useless as a Forge in hand would, so it's not really gamebreaking.

Also, if that isn't too complicated for your taste, one could use: "opponents gain a curse in hand. If this is the first time you played a Snow Witch this turn, put the curse into the discard" or something similiar.
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Asper

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2016, 07:30:27 am »
+1

You might change snow witch to something like: 'In Fall or Winter: if this is the first time this turn you play Snow Witch, all other players get a curse' to avoid the 'play 5 witches in a good engine' problem identified before.

Or we could give the Curse in hand so the other players in line do their first Fall turn under roughly the same conditions. Makes it very easy to trash the Curses with something like Forge, though.

For now i think we should keep it as is, but i guess there are a few options if it doesn't work out. Just giving a single Curse is pretty bad, i think.

I actually like this idea quite a lot. I mean, Watchtower makes the cursing equally useless as a Forge in hand would, so it's not really gamebreaking.

Also, if that isn't too complicated for your taste, one could use: "opponents gain a curse in hand. If this is the first time you played a Snow Witch this turn, put the curse into the discard" or something similiar.

It's good to know we have an idea how to make SW less problematic if it should turn out to cause problems after some further testing. Considering season mechanics add complexity on their own, we'd like to keep her as simple as possible otherwise. So if just gaining curses doesn't work, but putting them in hand does, i think that'enouh complexity.

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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2016, 11:15:03 am »
+2

Sanitarium is another card I've played with, and I'm a big fan of it so far. If the top were just "+1 Card; +2 Actions", it would be an (expensive) regular Village for too much of the game. The "draw up to 5" means the card is just the right amount of exotic.

As to how strong it is, I'm guessing it's probably on the higher end of $4 villages, but still reasonable. It does pretty trivially counter Militia and company, but I don't think that's necessarily a deal-breaker. Tough to say.
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2016, 01:15:35 pm »
+1

Given that the game starts in spring, why not put Sanitarium in Summer, so that there is an incentive to delay buying Sanitarium? Now, there is little reason not to buy it in your very first turn/two turns.
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Re: Dominion: Seasons - the set the community has been waiting for!
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2016, 01:33:32 pm »
+5

Given that the game starts in spring, why not put Sanitarium in Summer, so that there is an incentive to delay buying Sanitarium? Now, there is little reason not to buy it in your very first turn/two turns.

Summer is about when you'd be loading up on villages anyway. Spring is earlier than you might want to buy them ordinarily.
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