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461.weavile

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Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« on: January 04, 2016, 08:51:38 pm »
+3

So here it is, my fan cards that my Dominion group and I mix in with the randomizers.

Detail format

http://imgur.com/a/7D3Lt

Print format

http://imgur.com/a/HeVSr

The primary goal I had when beginning this expansion was to make the Potion games more fun. They seemed to not be worth it, especially with very few cards that cost a potion in a Kingdom. So there are a few new cards that cost potion, a way to avoid buying Potions sometimes, ways to use the Potion for something after you buy what you need, and Events that cost potion.

Once that was done, it just didn't seem to be enough, so I started to do what our beloved DXV can't really do, and combine concepts from different expansions. I combined Alchemy with Adventures, Dark Ages, and Seaside. I combined Dark Ages with Adventures, Alchemy, Cornucopia, Guilds, Prosperity, and Seaside. I combined Adventures with a whole bunch of things and brought a couple Victory Point Tokens back.

I tried not to go overboard with new mechanics, so I only introduced one: a unique card that the other players cannot use, but can still limit you from getting all of them. I recommend each player gets a random one, but you can play however you like. It's designed to encourage playing with different strategies instead of just your favorite way to play. One other mechanic that popped its head up was playing cards when they aren't normally played; this already happens with Storyteller, Caravan Guard, and Black Market, but some of the cards or events have you play Treasures during the Action phase and Actions during the Buy phase. There is even one card that you play during your Clean-up phase.

What I did try to go above and beyond with was type combinations. I added a few that we haven't seen: Treasure-Traveller, Action-Reaction-Reserve, Action-Treasure (which everyone seems to try, but always falls short for me), Action-Attack-Reserve, and, most notably, a bunch of different Knight combos. We have Action-Attack-Knight-Reserve, Action-Attack-Knight-Duration, Action-Attack-Knight-Reaction, and, surprisingly, Action-Knight. There was one card which is an Action-Duration which I was contemplating making simply Duration, but it didn't feel necessary to stipulate that.

There are some tokens that are referred to by the cards and events similarly to Adventures. Four of the cards call for a Magic token, and three events call for Cantrip, Enchantment, and Clock tokens. To mirror the official tokens, that would be 24 tokens, 4 in each color.

Anybody that knows me from reddit may have seen some of these already here. You can also see some comments made in the identical topic on BGG here.

EDIT: Transcriptions courtesy of Fragasnap:
Quote
Lead
Types: Treasure, Traveller
Cost: $1P
$1P. When you play this, +1 Buy
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Poison.
Quote
Poison
Types: Action, Attack, Traveller
Cost: $2P*
+1 Action. Each other player may discard a Victory card from his hand. Each other player who does not gains a Curse.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Potion and a Recipe.
Quote
Recipe
Types: Action, Traveller
Cost: $3P*
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a card costing up to $2 and a P more than the trashed card and put it on top of your deck.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for an Ether.
Quote
Ether
Types: Action, Traveller
Cost: $4P*
Choose one: +1 Card and +2 Actions; or gain a Silver and a Potiton and put them into your hand; or return up to 4 cards from your hand to the Supply; or +2 Cards and put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Gold and an Elixir of Life
Quote
Elixir of Life
Types: Action, Reaction, Reserve
Cost: $5P*
+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are not affected by that Attack.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to trash a card from your hand. If the trashed card is a Potion, gain a Gold and put it into your hand, or if it is a Curse, gain a Duchy. Otherwise, +1 Card.

Quote
Quicksilver
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4P
$2P. When you play this, trash this card. Gain a card costing up to $2P.
Setup: Each player removes one Copper from his deck and adds 1 Quicksilver before shuffling.

Quote
Gold Leaf
Types: Action, Treasure
Cost: $5P
When you play this during your Action phase: +2 Cards, +1 Action.
$3. When you play this during your Buy phase, +1 Buy.

Quote
Spellcaster
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4P
Each other player plays a Delusion from the Delusion pile. Choose a player and take a Coin token for each Delusion he has in play.
Quote
Wizard
Types: Action, Attack, Duration
Cost: $5
At the start of your next turn, +$2 and choose one: Each other player plays a Delusion from the Delusion pile and draws a card; or each other player takes his -1 Card token and discards down to 4 cards in hand; or each other player gains 2 Coppers and puts one into his hand.
While this is in play, you cannot reveal any Reaction cards or call any Reserve cards.
Quote
Delusion
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $0*
At the start of each of your turns, discard a Treasure from your hand or reveal a hand with no Treasures.
At the start of Clean-Up during your turn, if you did not buy anything this turn, you may return this to the Delusion pile and stop discarding a Treasure every turn.

Quote
Magical Arrow
Types: Action, Reaction
Cost: $1+
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may play this card from your hand.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Shield
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $2+
+1 Card, +1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your Tavern mat. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack. If you have your Magic token, you may put this on top of your deck. If you do, discard a card.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Hammer
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $4+
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do: During your next turn +$1 when you play an Action. And if you have your Magic token, +1 Action per $ the trashed card costs.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magic Honedge
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5+
+1 Card, +1 Action. If you have your Magic token, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals it and puts a card from it that you choose on top of his deck. Either way, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand puts one on top of his deck.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magic Symbol
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Play your Medallion and set it aside.
Setup: Each player randomly takes one Medallion and sets it aside. The other Medallions are returned to the box.
Quote
Light Medallion +1 Card, +$1
Quote
Water Medallion Gain a card costing up to $4. If it costs $3, put it on top of your deck. If it costs $2, put it into your hand.
Quote
Forest Medallion +1 Card, +1VP
Quote
Shadow Medallion (Attack) Each other player gains a Curse, putting it into his hand.
Quote
Fire Medallion Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Trash it or put it into your hand and discard the other cards.
Quote
Spirit Medallion +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy
Quote
Time Medallion Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. Discard any number of cards. +$1 per card discarded the second time.
Quote
Darkness Medallion +2 Cards. Reveal 2 cards from your hand and discard them. For each differently named card revealed, if it is an... Action Card: +1 Action; Treasure Card: +$1 and +1 Buy; Victory Card: +1 Card.

Quote
Trinket
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$2. When you play this, put it into the discard pile of the player to your left.
When you buy this, each player gains a Trinket (including you).

Quote
Spell Book
Types: Action
Cost: $3P
+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1P.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $3
Put this on your Tavern mat.
When you put another card on your Tavern mat, you may call this to gain another copy of it. You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

Quote
Capitol
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +2 Actions. Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1.
You can't buy this if you have any Duration cards in play. When you buy this, +1VP per unused action you have (action, not Action card).

Quote
Warlord
Types: Action, Attack, Reserve
Cost: $5
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes 2 of them costing $3 to $7, and discards the rest. Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this for +$2, then your Action phase ends.

Quote
Mountaineer
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Put a card from your hand on your Tavern mat. If you do, put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to discard a card from your Tavern mat. +$ equal to half its cost. (Round up)

Quote
Imposter
Types: Action, Victory
Cost: $5
Choose one: +2 Cards; or +$2.
2VP

Quote
King
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Card, +1 Action. If this is the first King you played, at the start of your next turn: +3 Cards.

Quote
Queen
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. Each player (including you) with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

Quote
Rook
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions, +$2. If you have a King, Queen, or Knight card in play, +1 Card. The next two Action cards you play from your hand this turn must have more than one card type.

Quote
Castellan
Types: Action, Knight
Cost: $5
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck and discards them. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards costing from $3 to $6. If a Knight card was revealed, +$2.

Quote
Dame Bridget
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest. If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card.
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.
Quote
Dame Cassandra
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Reserve
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1
Quote
Dame Clare
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn: *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Cole
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* Each other player chooses one: take their -1 Card token and -$1 token; or gain an Estate and a Curse.
Quote
Dame Isabelle
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Reaction
Cost: $4
*Knight effect*
When one of your cards costing from $3 to $6 is trashed, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, put the trashed card into your discard pile and gain a copy of it.
Quote
Sir Nicholas
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Take a Coin token. *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Peter
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* (but you can gain one card another player trashes)
Quote
Dame Regina
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $6
+1VP. *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Robin
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
+$1. When you buy this or play this, *Knight effect* (but you only trash Sir Robin if you played it)
Quote
Sir Zachary
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $6
*Knight effect*
When you discard this from play, you may trash it. If you do, gain a White Knight or a Black Knight.
Quote
White Knight
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $0*
*Knight effect* (but is not trashed when trashing other Knight cards) If no player trashed a card by this, you may gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Duchy. Otherwise. +1 Action.
Quote
Black Knight
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Duration
Cost: $0*
*Knight effect* (but is not trashed when trashing other Knight cards) At the start of each of your turns, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$1 per $ it costs and +1 Card and +$2 if it has P in its cost.

Quote
Cantrip
Types: Event
Cost: $2P
Move your Cantrip token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, first choose one: either +1 Card and +1 Action or play the Action normally.

Quote
Enchantment
Types: Event
Cost: $5P
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, play it twice.)

Quote
Rewind
Types: Event
Cost: $2P
+1 Buy. At the start of Clean-Up this turn, you may choose an Action card you have in play. If you discard it from play this turn, put it on your deck.

Quote
Visions
Types: Event
Cost: $3P
+1 Buy. Each other player may discard a Reaction card from his hand. Each player who does not reveals his hand. You may choose one of the revealed cards and play it. Return that card to the hand of its owner during your Clean-Up phase.

Quote
Time Slip
Types: Event
Cost: $1P
If you Clock token is not on a Supply pile, choose a Kingdom card from the Supply. Put one copy of it into your discard pile and put your Clock token on its pile. (When you buy a card with your Clock token on it, you may return it to its pile and remove your Clock token. If you Clock token is on a Supply pile, -3VP.

Quote
Battlefield
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy. Each player (starting with the player to your left) may reveal and discard a card from his hand. The player that discarded the card with the highest cost in coins gains a Spoils from the Spoils pile.

Quote
Battle Strategy
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Look at cards from your deck and either discard them or set them aside until you have set aside 4 cards. Put them on top of your deck in any order. Put your -1 Card token on your deck.

Quote
Surprise Attack
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy. You may play an Action card from your hand. Discard it.

Quote
Hidden Trap
Types: Event
Cost: $2+
+1 Buy. Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, play it or discard it.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, set aside the card face-down.

Quote
War Drums
Types: Event
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Once per turn: Choose an Attack card you have in play and play it two more times. Other players cannot gain cards by this.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 01:34:06 am by 461.weavile »
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Warlords and Wizards is my favorite expansion.

Roadrunner7671

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2016, 09:14:38 pm »
+1

I don't have anything to say yet (I don't want to start the conversation) but I do want to post later. I'll keep this thread in mind.
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enfynet

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2016, 12:08:04 am »
0

I'm curious, why are you referring to "+1 Card" as a "cantrip" when it doesn't allow another action?
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drsteelhammer

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2016, 12:37:33 am »
+1

I don't think I did get around to comment on your expansion, so here is my critique:

Traveller: I'm not confident enough to critique Traveller lines, altough this one seems kind of weak. Also it feels incoherent, but I don't know if that is a problem.

Quicksilver Why would I ever buy this? I don't think this should be a supply card. The setup is kind of interesting altough I'm not sure how to implement this in a fun way.

Spellcaster I like this one. I see enough strategic depth in there that this makes a worthwile card.

Magical Arrow Seems very weak. I don't see it use at all

Magical Shield The potion part is entirely irrelevant on most of the boards with this. Also, the opportunity cost to get this seems too low.

Magical Hammer this sounds okay, you probably want it a decent amount of times. And this seems the first worthwile Potion overpay. Altough I'm still not sold on the mechanic

magic token My suggestion would be: Instead of overpaying P maybe take the token everytime you have an unused P at the end of your action phase? This seems more interesting to me and it is a more sustained use of the Potion. Price would have to be adjusted, obviously. (Or do you not lose your magic token in your mechanic? That would seem too strong)

Magical sword Seems okay, but the wording is messy, describe what they have to do and then afterwards describe the effect the token has.

Medaillons Yikes, I don't like it at all. Even if you balance them perfectly, they won't be balanced on a lot of boards they appear on. I would even go as far and say that I wouldn't even bother playing some boards when my opponent gets the first choice from these. Maybe they can work if you allow mirrors, but that doesn't seem to be what you would like to do.

Another idea with unique Medaillons: After each turn of playing Magic Symbol you must exchange your Medaillon. (All medaillons are laid out.) In that case nobody can block one Medaillon except he never uses it himself. After thinking about it, I like this idea more than my previous one.

Trinket Finally a silver junker, yay! :) Needs to be played with 12cards for symetry reasons or be returned to the pile instead of being passed.

Tinker This made me laugh. While you avoided the "Potion-Problem" pretty successfully on the potion cards, this one has this problem. What I mean with this: This is a complete dud with no other reserve cards. Dominion is usually played full-random, so you can not avoid having this card be a complete dud very often. Of course, you can house-rule it, but I don't think it is worth it. There is more value lost than gained.

Capitol See Tinker

Warlord Seems good enough to be a one-shot. Being called on a dud looks like a bonus. Don't have any thought on it just yet

King Pretty sure this is one of the least skippable cards in the game. Ignoring the very few rushes, you surely want at least two of these all the time? I'd say it better than wharf, which is saying a lot.

Rook see Tinker: if you want to make this work, make it a non-supply card that can somehow be gained when King or Queen is on the board.

Knights Not many thought on it, but I hate the upgraded Knights, they seem less fun than frustrating. Also a lot of these Knights break the nice 5-5 Knight split where all knights end up in the trash eventually which is, in my opinion, is the only thing that makes them bearable.

Events:

Rewind is too weak. Cantrip okayish, but not sure if I'd get a potion for it, ever.

Enchantment sounds insanely strong, not even sure 6p is expensive enough.

I find surprise attack hilarious. Needs to be once per turn, though.

May comment on the last few later
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2016, 12:38:29 am »
0

I'm curious, why are you referring to "+1 Card" as a "cantrip" when it doesn't allow another action?

Are you referring to the Medaillon? If yes, because it can only be played by playing a "+1action" card first.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2016, 02:06:53 am »
0

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

So I put the E-token on Market. I play a Market. I played it, so instead I play it twice. I played it twice, so I instead play it four times. I played it 4 times, so I instead play it 8 times, ad infinitum.
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tristan

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2016, 07:41:44 am »
+1

Quicksilver is overprized and, as a Copper substitute, pretty powerful in the presence of Remodel (buy Remodel on turn 1/2, remodel it into a Possession in turn 3/4/5) and Remodel-variants.

Gold Leaf would be a decent but not outstanding 7$ card so with 5P it is a bit expensive.

Spellcaster is a great concept. I find it hard to judge how strong it is (obviously it is stronger in multiplayer games) so I would test it at 4P and 3P.

I like Magical Arrow. It is a cheap Lab but you gotta play it during your Cleanup phase so you are vulnerable to handsize attacks and you never want to have more than 1 during a turn.

Cantrip defenses like Magical Shield are problematic for obvious reasons and if they are in addition to that Reserve cards they virtually nullify the power of Attack cards.

About the Medallions, the idea is phantastic. They seem roughly balanced. I particularly like Water, a good variation of a basic gainer. As it is non-terminal it might be a tad too strong. Shadow neatly alleviates for the non-terminal issue why putting the Curse into the hand of the player and Forest will probably get you a a lot of flack here. I think that a cantrip VP token gainer should cost 5$ or 6$. I have played two games with Asper's Hospital and it wasn't the backbone of anybody's strategy but then again the card is designed such that you cannot get a deck with only cantrips VP token gainers as it is a self-spammer (so you'd need some decent trashers in your deck to run such an engine). So I would slightly nerf the card. You could e.g. simply add "discard a card" (although that might be too weak). Don't listen to the folks though who will tell you that a cantrip VP token gainer should never ever be done.

Spellbook is good.

Capitol is, like Lost City, overpowered. Given that Lab is one of the best 5s which you often buy for 6$ "+2 Cards, +2Action" is a pretty good 6$. The card as it is would probably be something between a 6$ and  7$.

I like Mountainer. It incentivizes earlier greening as you could e.g. set aside a Province and call Mountainer for 4.

About the Knights, Castellan is obviously the most radical and IMO the most interesting Knight variant. Clare might be too strong as it attacks twice, Regina should probably cost 5$ (+1 VP is not that strong), Cole is definitely too strong (limit it to one token).

About the events, Rewind would probably be balanced at a cost of P, Cantrip is a good idea (although I would name it differently) and Enchantment is good as well (could be extremely powerful though so I would also test it at 6P). I like Visions a lot but I would make it an Attack-Event such that Reactions can be played normally (and can not be discarded to always defend). Perhaps I am stupid but I do not see the worthwhile War Drums combos as no Attack card provides more than 2 coins (immediately).
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 07:44:48 am by tristan »
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SirMartin

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2016, 12:07:13 pm »
0

I can't really gauge if these cards are overpowered or not, but I really like the new knights. Maybr shuffle all the Knights (including these) and use the top ten? I've only played with Knights twice, but I actually enjoyed them, and having slightly different cards in the same pile is genius.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 12:31:22 pm »
+2

While it's cool that you have full mock-ups and such for printing, I think you'll get much better feedback if you post the text of the cards here in a format we can easily read and respond to.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 12:36:30 pm »
+1

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

So I put the E-token on Market. I play a Market. I played it, so instead I play it twice. I played it twice, so I instead play it four times. I played it 4 times, so I instead play it 8 times, ad infinitum.

Similarly, Cantrip doesn't do what I'm guessing you want it to do. As worded, when you play the card, you can first choose to play the card normally, then you still get the normal card effects, so you'll play it twice. Or you could choose to get +1 card +1 action and then you still get the normal card effects.

I guess you want something like "when you play a card from that pile, you may choose to get +1 card +1 action instead of the card's normal effects".
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 05:56:19 pm »
+2

I like the idea of Magic Symbol. It basically gives each player a unique power, allthough still tied to a specific kingdom card. Very neat combination of a new mechanic with classic dominion gameplay. I'm not sold on exactly how they work, and i think the balance might be off a bit (but you allready know that). Probably you could do with random tokens instead of cards and have Magic Symbol just say "You get the bonus on your Medallion" or something like that.

Gold Leaf is an Action-Treasure, which i still think is a terrible idea for various rule reasons. You can achieve the same result with a Reaction that you can discard at the start of you buy phase for money (as i did with my Jeweler).

Magical Arrow reacts on being drawn, which is... not exactly pretty. First, it allows you to play it on practically any occasion, be it another player's turn, your cleanup phase, your buy phase, whatever. Of course some of those need support, but the cleanup thing would probably be the best on most boards either way - hey, 5 cards to draw one is a neat chance. At least, it's not nonterminal like Caravan Guard... Second, you can never really prove when a card was drawn, allthough of course Library does a similar thing. Third, you'll play cards inbetween resolving other cards, which is pretty confusing. Imagine playing Smithy, drawing Magic Arrow first, playing Magic Arrow, drawing two more cards. So far, so good. Now play Ironmonger. Draw Arrow, play Arrow, draw Arrow, play Arrow, repeat a bazillon times... oh yeah, and then reveal the top card of your deck and do the rest of Ironmonger. Also, two lines aren't eaxactly pretty, either. Same for Elixir of life.

I think the idea of the magic token is clever in general - it allows to either pay a Potion cost or not, and getting a better card if you do. Of course, it doesn't exactly translate the same as two different cards, as you only need to overpay once, but whatever. I still advise against combining the overpay with yet another ability that requires a dividing line.

Magic Sword is probably the cleanest implementation of the idea. Call me a square, but i think a card concept is cleaner when it's not mixed with something else. It's like Scrying Pool is "some overly-long-worded, weird Spy variant" instead of "draws all your actions" because the attack was unneccessarily mixed in. In a similar vein, the idea of Magic Hammer's duration effect is allready a nice concept, and the idea to have a card that's better if you overpayed Potion is nice. I suggest to make two cards of that. If not, i suggest switching the order so the "this-turn" effect is listed before the "next turn" effect.

Trinket: Everybody is doing the passing card thing now. I'm still not sold on it, allthough i admit a similar card, LastFootnote's Wanderer, worked nicely in 2-player games. Have you tested it in multiplayer?

In the absence of other Potion cards, Spellbook is a tad weak. You could try it costing a single Potion, or add a buy. Either way, it would be decent enough at picking up copies of itself simply for the Market/Peddler aspect to be worth it. Woah, it's simple and i still complain about it. Sorry for that, i hope it's at least a bit helpful.

When Tinker is the only Reserve card, it does nothing but pick up copies of itself.

Capitol's non-Duration clause is really weird. If it was something more common that actually influences the way you have to play (like "an attack card"), i'd say it would be neat, allthough i'd still make a different card of it. Durations are just much too diverse in what they do to actually feel like Capitol influences how you have to play. That aside, the VP aspect is fine, and i guess the card isn't too complex with it. I'd still remove the Duration clause or do something else in that vein on another card.

Warlord + Big Money, hooray! No, seriously, trash engine components, play Treasures, repeat.

Wizard's penalty again is something that won't matter quite often, and i'm not sure why it should be there. It's like the attack-gaining aspect of Squire, just that Squire is much simpler than Wizard.

Mountainer is nice. I like it.

Queen is an Oasis that attacks the first two times. I don't think it's strong enough.

Rook will very often be useless, either because the referenced cards are not on the board, or because there are not dual-type cards in the kingdom.

Castellan is worse than Swindler (edit: of course i mean) Smugglers in my opinion, because you don't even know what you'll gain before you play it. Sure, with multiple players it gets better, but that still doesn't excuse costing it at more than $4. And yes, it interacts with itself, but that's neither a plus nor a minus, as you can just as well unwittingly give a bonus to another player.

I think Dame bridget is okay, but probably the Bridge effect itself is decent enough without influencing the attack. (Edit: oh, man... BRIDGEt... Have +1 just for that pun)

Dame Regina could probably cost $5. One point per play isn't that much, allthough of course Knight games take longer.

Sir Robin should totally run away.

Rewind seems... Oddly familiar.

Enchantment will play the card infinitely.

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2016, 06:21:48 pm »
0

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2016, 05:59:36 pm »
+3

Ah, didn't see this was posted here as well as BoardGameGeek.
Transcribed:
Quote
Lead
Types: Treasure, Traveller
Cost: $1P
$1P. When you play this, +1 Buy
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Poison.
Quote
Poison
Types: Action, Attack, Traveller
Cost: $2P*
+1 Action. Each other player may discard a Victory card from his hand. Each other player who does not gains a Curse.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Potion and a Recipe.
Quote
Recipe
Types: Action, Traveller
Cost: $3P*
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do, you may gain a card costing up to $2 and a P more than the trashed card and put it on top of your deck.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for an Ether.
Quote
Ether
Types: Action, Traveller
Cost: $4P*
Choose one: +1 Card and +2 Actions; or gain a Silver and a Potiton and put them into your hand; or return up to 4 cards from your hand to the Supply; or +2 Cards and put 2 cards from your hand on top of your deck.
When you discard this from play, you may exchange it for a Gold and an Elixir of Life
Quote
Elixir of Life
Types: Action, Reaction, Reserve
Cost: $5P*
+1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may reveal this from your hand. If you do, you are not affected by that Attack.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to trash a card from your hand. If the trashed card is a Potion, gain a Gold and put it into your hand, or if it is a Curse, gain a Duchy. Otherwise, +1 Card.

Quote
Quicksilver
Types: Treasure
Cost: $4P
$2P. When you play this, trash this card. Gain a card costing up to $2P.
Setup: Each player removes one Copper from his deck and adds 1 Quicksilver before shuffling.

Quote
Gold Leaf
Types: Action, Treasure
Cost: $5P
When you play this during your Action phase: +2 Cards, +1 Action.
$3. When you play this during your Buy phase, +1 Buy.

Quote
Spellcaster
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $4P
Each other player plays a Delusion from the Delusion pile. Choose a player and take a Coin token for each Delusion he has in play.
Quote
Wizard
Types: Action, Attack, Duration
Cost: $5
At the start of your next turn, +$2 and choose one: Each other player plays a Delusion from the Delusion pile and draws a card; or each other player takes his -1 Card token and discards down to 4 cards in hand; or each other player gains 2 Coppers and puts one into his hand.
While this is in play, you cannot reveal any Reaction cards or call any Reserve cards.
Quote
Delusion
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $0*
At the start of each of your turns, discard a Treasure from your hand or reveal a hand with no Treasures.
At the start of Clean-Up during your turn, if you did not buy anything this turn, you may return this to the Delusion pile and stop discarding a Treasure every turn.

Quote
Magical Arrow
Types: Action, Reaction
Cost: $1+
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may play this card from your hand.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Shield
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $2+
+1 Card, +1 Action. Put this on your Tavern mat.
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your Tavern mat. If you do, you are unaffected by that Attack. If you have your Magic token, you may put this on top of your deck. If you do, discard a card.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Hammer
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $4+
You may trash a card from your hand. If you do: During your next turn +$1 when you play an Action. And if you have your Magic token, +1 Action per $ the trashed card costs.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magic Sword
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5+
+1 Card, +1 Action. If you have your Magic token, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand reveals it and puts a card from it that you choose on top of his deck. Either way, each other player with 4 or more cards in hand puts one on top of his deck.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magic Symbol
Types: Action
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Play your Medallion and set it aside.
Setup: Each player randomly takes one Medallion and sets it aside. The other Medallions are returned to the box.
Quote
Light Medallion +1 Card, +$1
Quote
Water Medallion Gain a card costing up to $4. If it costs $3, put it on top of your deck. If it costs $2, put it into your hand.
Quote
Forest Medallion +1 Card, +1VP
Quote
Shadow Medallion (Attack) Each other player gains a Curse, putting it into his hand.
Quote
Fire Medallion Reveal cards from the top of your deck until you reveal an Action or Treasure. Trash it or put it into your hand and discard the other cards.
Quote
Spirit Medallion +1 Card, +1 Action, +1 Buy
Quote
Time Medallion Discard any number of cards. +1 Card per card discarded. Discard any number of cards. +$1 per card discarded the second time.
Quote
Darkness Medallion +2 Cards. Reveal 2 cards from your hand and discard them. For each differently named card revealed, if it is an... Action Card: +1 Action; Treasure Card: +$1 and +1 Buy; Victory Card: +1 Card.

Quote
Trinket
Types: Treasure
Cost: $2
$2. When you play this, put it into the discard pile of the player to your left.
When you buy this, each player gains a Trinket (including you).

Quote
Spell Book
Types: Action
Cost: $3P
+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1P.

Quote
Tinker
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $3
Put this on your Tavern mat.
When you put another card on your Tavern mat, you may call this to gain another copy of it. You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

Quote
Capitol
Types: Action
Cost: $6
+1 Card, +2 Actions. Choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1.
You can't buy this if you have any Duration cards in play. When you buy this, +1VP per unused action you have (action, not Action card).

Quote
Warlord
Types: Action, Attack, Reserve
Cost: $5
Each other player reveals the top 3 cards of his deck, trashes 2 of them costing $3 to $7, and discards the rest. Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this for +$2, then your Action phase ends.

Quote
Mountaineer
Types: Action, Reserve
Cost: $4
+1 Action. Put a card from your hand on your Tavern mat. If you do, put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to discard a card from your Tavern mat. +$ equal to half its cost. (Round up)

Quote
Imposter
Types: Action, Victory
Cost: $5
Choose one: +2 Cards; or +$2.
2VP

Quote
King
Types: Action, Duration
Cost: $5
+1 Card, +1 Action. If this is the first King you played, at the start of your next turn: +3 Cards.

Quote
Queen
Types: Action, Attack
Cost: $5
+1 Card, +1 Action, +$1. Each player (including you) with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

Quote
Rook
Types: Action
Cost: $3
+2 Actions, +$2. If you have a King, Queen, or Knight card in play, +1 Card. The next two Action cards you play from your hand this turn must have more than one card type.

Quote
Castellan
Types: Action, Knight
Cost: $5
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck and discards them. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards costing from $3 to $6. If a Knight card was revealed, +$2.

Quote
Dame Bridget
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Each other player reveals the top 2 cards of his deck, trashes one of them costing from $3 to $6, and discards the rest. If a Knight is trashed by this, trash this card.
While this is in play, cards cost $1 less, but not less than $0.
Quote
Dame Cassandra
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Reserve
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* Put this on your Tavern mat.
At the start of your turn, you may call this to choose one: +1 Card; or +1 Action; or +1 Buy; or +$1
Quote
Dame Clare
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Now and at the start of your next turn: *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Cole
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* Each other player chooses one: take their -1 Card token and -$1 token; or gain an Estate and a Curse.
Quote
Dame Isabelle
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Reaction
Cost: $4
*Knight effect*
When one of your cards costing from $3 to $6 is trashed, you may discard this from your hand. If you do, put the trashed card into your discard pile and gain a copy of it.
Quote
Sir Nicholas
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
Take a Coin token. *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Peter
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
*Knight effect* (but you can gain one card another player trashes)
Quote
Dame Regina
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $6
+1VP. *Knight effect*
Quote
Sir Robin
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $5
+$1. When you buy this or play this, *Knight effect* (but you only trash Sir Robin if you played it)
Quote
Sir Zachary
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $6
*Knight effect*
When you discard this from play, you may trash it. If you do, gain a White Knight or a Black Knight.
Quote
White Knight
Types: Action, Attack, Knight
Cost: $0*
*Knight effect* (but is not trashed when trashing other Knight cards) If no player trashed a card by this, you may gain a Prize (from the Prize pile) or a Duchy. Otherwise. +1 Action.
Quote
Black Knight
Types: Action, Attack, Knight, Duration
Cost: $0*
*Knight effect* (but is not trashed when trashing other Knight cards) At the start of each of your turns, you may trash a card from your hand. If you do, +$1 per $ it costs and +1 Card and +$2 if it has P in its cost.

Quote
Cantrip
Types: Event
Cost: $2P
Move your Cantrip token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, first choose one: either +1 Card and +1 Action or play the Action normally.

Quote
Enchantment
Types: Event
Cost: $5P
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile, play it twice.)

Quote
Rewind
Types: Event
Cost: $2P
+1 Buy. At the start of Clean-Up this turn, you may choose an Action card you have in play. If you discard it from play this turn, put it on your deck.

Quote
Visions
Types: Event
Cost: $3P
+1 Buy. Each other player may discard a Reaction card from his hand. Each player who does not reveals his hand. You may choose one of the revealed cards and play it. Return that card to the hand of its owner during your Clean-Up phase.

Quote
Time Slip
Types: Event
Cost: $1P
If you Clock token is not on a Supply pile, choose a Kingdom card from the Supply. Put one copy of it into your discard pile and put your Clock token on its pile. (When you buy a card with your Clock token on it, you may return it to its pile and remove your Clock token. If you Clock token is on a Supply pile, -3VP.

Quote
Battlefield
Types: Event
Cost: $1
+1 Buy. Each player (starting with the player to your left) may reveal and discard a card from his hand. The player that discarded the card with the highest cost in coins gains a Spoils from the Spoils pile.

Quote
Battle Strategy
Types: Event
Cost: $5
Look at cards from your deck and either discard them or set them aside until you have set aside 4 cards. Put them on top of your deck in any order. Put your -1 Card token on your deck.

Quote
Surprise Attack
Types: Event
Cost: $2
+1 Buy. You may play an Action card from your hand. Discard it.

Quote
Hidden Trap
Types: Event
Cost: $2+
+1 Buy. Set aside a card from your hand. At the start of your next turn, play it or discard it.
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you do, set aside the card face-down.

Quote
War Drums
Types: Event
Cost: $4
+1 Buy. Once per turn: Choose an Attack card you have in play and play it two more times. Other players cannot gain cards by this.
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461.weavile

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2016, 01:15:34 am »
0

Thanks to everyone for the feedback, and thanks Fragasnap for transcribing them into text for everyone.

For now I'm going to interrupt only to point out false information. I really like seeing the feedback and I hope for a bit more discussion before I argue to keep things the way they are or change anything. A bunch of these cards had previous versions; if anybody wants to see those, I can link/transcribe them.

I'm curious, why are you referring to "+1 Card" as a "cantrip" when it doesn't allow another action?

Magic Symbol: +1 Action, play your Medallion. I wasn't sure I wanted to put "+1 Action" on every Medallion just because they all do the same thing.

I would even go as far and say that I wouldn't even bother playing some boards when my opponent gets the first choice from these.

You don't get to pick which Medallion you get. You could make a house rule for that (compounding house rules here), but I don't see that being fun.

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

If it said "when you play an Action from that pile" you would be right, but you don't play the card multiple times, just the Action.

Magical Arrow reacts on being drawn, which is... not exactly pretty. First, it allows you to play it on practically any occasion, be it another player's turn, your cleanup phase, your buy phase, whatever. Of course some of those need support, but the cleanup thing would probably be the best on most boards either way - hey, 5 cards to draw one is a neat chance. At least, it's not nonterminal like Caravan Guard... Second, you can never really prove when a card was drawn, allthough of course Library does a similar thing. Third, you'll play cards inbetween resolving other cards, which is pretty confusing. Imagine playing Smithy, drawing Magic Arrow first, playing Magic Arrow, drawing two more cards. So far, so good. Now play Ironmonger. Draw Arrow, play Arrow, draw Arrow, play Arrow, repeat a bazillon times... oh yeah, and then reveal the top card of your deck and do the rest of Ironmonger.

This one probably would get the same FAQ as Stash, because when you draw cards, you draw them all at the same time, not one after the other. During Clean-up, you draw 5 cards at the same time; if you draw one or more Magical Arrows, put them all in play, then draw more cards (together). When you play a Smithy, you draw 3 cards at the same time; if you draw Magical Arrow, you're welcome to play it or keep it in your hand, but it doesn't do anything except sit there. (This would be different with Library, it would either get set aside or put directly into play, because those are drawn one at a time, but you still aren't going to draw cards because of Magical Arrow and it won't count as one of your 7 cards unless you needed a useless card in your hand.) During your turn, Magical Arrow theoretically shouldn't be more annoying than your dad showing you that he drew an Estate instead of a usable card, then realizing he will play Madman and have to count that Estate that he left on the table in front of him. The main idea behind Magical Arrow is that it should be played when it isn't your Action phase for it to work, Durations make it weaker, and it's vulnerable to attacks. I can see some edge case arising where you buy Bonfire, trash the only action cards you have in play, and one says "When you trash this, draw a card." then you draw Magical Arrow and can play it to draw 2 more cards, but that edge case wouldn't happen if you were intending to trash the card to draw, because you can't play anything you draw after buying something anyway; on the other hand, there may be fan cards that trash things in play during the Action phase (other than Procession, etc, which won't clear the board entirely). If there are plausible edge cases that I missed, let me know and we can address them. I don't think this can happen in the middle of playing another Action, because I can't think of any that clears itself from play, then draws cards, then does something else; Madman comes close, and Urchin might've broken it if we were discussing an Attack card. ....that was a lot of blathering. This one definitely would need an FAQ.

Capitol's non-Duration clause is really weird. ... the VP aspect is fine, and i guess the card isn't too complex with it. I'd still remove the Duration clause or do something else in that vein on another card.

This clause was not added frivolously, and I'm marginally sad that I had to add it, but it's not flavor text, it's necessary.

Enchantment will play the card infinitely.

I still disagree, but now it's two votes against one. Maybe I need to hit the books harder. Can anyone point me in the correct direction?

Once more, thanks for investigating my work, everybody. I'll comment on some feelings later, (such as how I like Asper's solution to the Action-Treasure dilemma,) but I think pointing out misconceptions should be step one.
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Warlords and Wizards is my favorite expansion.

Asper

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2016, 06:52:10 am »
0

This one probably would get the same FAQ as Stash, because when you draw cards, you draw them all at the same time, not one after the other. During Clean-up, you draw 5 cards at the same time; if you draw one or more Magical Arrows, put them all in play, then draw more cards (together). When you play a Smithy, you draw 3 cards at the same time; if you draw Magical Arrow, you're welcome to play it or keep it in your hand, but it doesn't do anything except sit there. (This would be different with Library, it would either get set aside or put directly into play, because those are drawn one at a time, but you still aren't going to draw cards because of Magical Arrow and it won't count as one of your 7 cards unless you needed a useless card in your hand.) During your turn, Magical Arrow theoretically shouldn't be more annoying than your dad showing you that he drew an Estate instead of a usable card, then realizing he will play Madman and have to count that Estate that he left on the table in front of him. The main idea behind Magical Arrow is that it should be played when it isn't your Action phase for it to work, Durations make it weaker, and it's vulnerable to attacks. I can see some edge case arising where you buy Bonfire, trash the only action cards you have in play, and one says "When you trash this, draw a card." then you draw Magical Arrow and can play it to draw 2 more cards, but that edge case wouldn't happen if you were intending to trash the card to draw, because you can't play anything you draw after buying something anyway; on the other hand, there may be fan cards that trash things in play during the Action phase (other than Procession, etc, which won't clear the board entirely). If there are plausible edge cases that I missed, let me know and we can address them. I don't think this can happen in the middle of playing another Action, because I can't think of any that clears itself from play, then draws cards, then does something else; Madman comes close, and Urchin might've broken it if we were discussing an Attack card. ....that was a lot of blathering. This one definitely would need an FAQ.

The official rules certainly imply that you draw cards one at a time, otherwise Smithy would be unable to draw three cards if you have one card in your deck and two in your discard pile. Of course you can disagree on that, but even if you define your card to be revealed only after someone is finished resolving a drawing instruction, examples like Ironmonger - or any cantrip, for that matter, still stand.

If you insist on doing it the simultaneous way, it even introduces more problems. Let's say i play a Smithy and then a Magical Arrow. Then another, then another. How is another player supposed to know i didn't have a few Magical Arrows in my hand at the start of my turn? How would he catch me if i cheat? Is he supposed to very closely follow which cards in my hand are from when? Good luck with that. Library makes cristal clear you set aside a freshly drawn card immediately, so there's no room to confuse them with something you had in your hand before. Magical Arrow doesn't. So it introduces playing cards while resolving cards, depends on an arguable rules definition and is not accountable. If it went with the one-at-a-time ruling, it would be accountable again, but instead worsen the recursive card playing a lot.

This clause was not added frivolously, and I'm marginally sad that I had to add it, but it's not flavor text, it's necessary.

Both Champion Bonfire and Procession allow removing Champion from play after playing it. Normally that's not a good idea, as you don't get any benefit from it. With Wizard, it becomes a good idea. According to official ruling, Champion will still give its benefit after being trashed from play. Even if it wouldn't, Bonfire would still work with this. The fact that Wizard's on-buy scales crazily thanks to Champion is bad. It's worse to have that without being able to see how many Champions you have in play because Wizard's clause practically demands you to trash them.

I still disagree, but now it's two votes against one. Maybe I need to hit the books harder. Can anyone point me in the correct direction?

When you play, you play. It's induction. If Enchantment said something like "when [...] from your hand", the result wouldn't equal the condition.

Gubump

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2016, 09:45:51 am »
0

I still disagree, but now it's two votes against one. Maybe I need to hit the books harder. Can anyone point me in the correct direction?

Here's an example that uses similar logic:
Say somebody gives you a curse that states that "whenever you would eat a cookie, you must instead eat 2." So, you decide to eat a cookie. You would eat a cookie, but you must instead eat 2. Each time you would eat one of those cookies, however, you would eat a cookie, but you must instead eat 2. Each time you would eat one of those cookies, you would eat a cookie, and therefore must instead eat 2, ad infinitum.

^This works for the same reason as Enchantment: You start a repetition loop, but the conditions for repeating are always satisfied. In other words, you didn't close the loop. Here's a couple different wordings for Enchantment that work:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. When you play a card from that pile, resolve it twice.
Cost: $5P
Event
^Works the exact way you want it to.

Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. When you play a card from that pile from your hand, play it again immediately after resolving it.
Cost: $5P
Event
^Doesn't quite work the way you want it to, because then it doesn't work the same way with the various Throne Room variants.

By the way, I would give it a cost limit (I recommend $4) because Enchanting Possession, which costs strictly more than it, is stupidly powerful.
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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2016, 01:10:28 pm »
+1

As worded, Enchantment lets you play a card infinite times:

Enchantment:
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile (when you play a card from that pile, instead play it twice).
Cost: $5P
Event

If it said "when you play an Action from that pile" you would be right, but you don't play the card multiple times, just the Action.


Unlike Magic, Dominion doesn't have such a concept of a difference between the "card" and "the action that the card is".  Look at Throne Room. It says "Choose an action card in your hand. Play it twice." "It" is "the action card", not "the action". You do play "the card" twice.

You can simply say "when you play a card from that pile, first get all the effects of playing that card", or something.

*Edit* Oh, Asper's idea is better. "When you would play a card from that pile from your hand, instead play it twice." Note also the "would". If you're using "instead", it needs to be pared with a "would".
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 01:14:00 pm by GendoIkari »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2016, 01:17:07 pm »
0

This one probably would get the same FAQ as Stash, because when you draw cards, you draw them all at the same time, not one after the other. During Clean-up, you draw 5 cards at the same time; if you draw one or more Magical Arrows, put them all in play, then draw more cards (together). When you play a Smithy, you draw 3 cards at the same time; if you draw Magical Arrow, you're welcome to play it or keep it in your hand, but it doesn't do anything except sit there

This is the opposite of the Stash faq. You do draw cards 1 at a time, which matters for things like Stash (and Library).

*Edit* Hmm, the Stash FAQ doesn't actually seem to say that specifically. At least not on the Wiki. But I'm quite sure you're allowed to draw a few cards, reshuffle, and look at your new hand before deciding where to put Stash.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 01:22:16 pm by GendoIkari »
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Asper

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2016, 02:34:34 pm »
0

I feel i wasn't as helpful as i should have been with my last comment. Part of that might have been that i remembered having a discussion about on-draw reactions before, and i thought i remembered the person from back then to be stubborn about it, which might have caused me to be more grumpy than appropriate. So, sorry for that.

I wasn't even aware Magic uses such a distinction between card and effect. Interesting.

Also, i'm not sure how bad the VP clause on Wizard is. At the very least, it's limited how many times you can abuse that feature, normally. And well, Diadem can allready be used to abuse Champion's action giving, just not as straightforward as Wizard. And, of course Diadem's effect is less and not as reliably available.

About Enchantment being stronger than Possession, sometimes two copies of a card are better than one that does the effect twice, such as when your one copy misses the reshuffle, or when an attack like Pillage or Saboteur might cost you your only copy.

GendoIkari

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2016, 02:38:57 pm »
0


I wasn't even aware Magic uses such a distinction between card and effect. Interesting.


Yeah, it generally comes up when an effect refers to a "creature". "Creature" is defined as an object on the battlefield (aka a permanent) that has the type "creature". So a card in your hand that's a creature card can't be affected by something that deals with a "creature". But an effect could specify that it deals with a "creature card" instead, as in "search your library for a creature card".

Although really in this case, the Magic thing that's closer is the idea of copying spells. A copy of a spell isn't "cast", but it still acts just like the spell. This allows the existence of effects like "whenever you cast an instant spell, copy that spell", which is the effect the OP wants. Because you copied the spell, you get another copy of that spell, and now you have 2 of them, which will resolve one at a time. But the copy wasn't "cast", so it doesn't repeatedly trigger itself. But in Dominion, you can't "copy an action" without playing the action again.
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461.weavile

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 04:02:57 pm »
+2

So I really thought the drawing thing was the opposite of what GendoIkari said, but I, too, cannot find where I got my information.

Now that Asper said a bit more on the topic, I really think we're still misunderstanding each other. Magical Arrow says
Quote
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
Asper has now used this example twice:
Quote
Let's say I play a Smithy and then a Magical Arrow.
At first, I thought it was just a generic example, but now I think Asper is actually trying to play Magical Arrow while there are other cards in play.

Gabump, thanks for trying to give me a visualization, but it didn't really match my explanation. It was only validated by GendoIkari (again, with the insight) saying that an Action isn't distinguished from its card.

Also, Asper, I think you keep calling Capitol "Wizard" instead...
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Asper

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 04:24:23 pm »
0

So I really thought the drawing thing was the opposite of what GendoIkari said, but I, too, cannot find where I got my information.

Now that Asper said a bit more on the topic, I really think we're still misunderstanding each other. Magical Arrow says
Quote
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
Asper has now used this example twice:
Quote
Let's say I play a Smithy and then a Magical Arrow.
At first, I thought it was just a generic example, but now I think Asper is actually trying to play Magical Arrow while there are other cards in play.

Gabump, thanks for trying to give me a visualization, but it didn't really match my explanation. It was only validated by GendoIkari (again, with the insight) saying that an Action isn't distinguished from its card.

Also, Asper, I think you keep calling Capitol "Wizard" instead...

Damned, now i feel really stupid... Sorry for that. You are right on both accounts. I especially don't know why i missed the restriction on Magic Arrow. Hmm... I guess when you can't play it if other cards are in play, some problems i mentioned go away. I still think most users here will agree the official rules imply you draw cards one at a time, and that no player can really track whether you actually drew a Magic Arrow just now or had it in hand before, which keeps my concerns on rules issues and accountability intact.

461.weavile

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2016, 05:08:41 pm »
+1

I guess I can start commenting on suggestions now. Here are some options to change

Quote
Magical Arrow
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +2 Cards.
--
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, when you finish drawing, play this card from your hand.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Arrow
If you have no cards other than Magic Arrows in play, +1 Card.
--
When you would draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may instead set this card aside. If you do, when you are finished drawing, play this card.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Magical Arrow
+2 Cards
--
You cannot play this card from your hand if you have any cards in play other than Magical Arrows.
--
When you draw this, if you have your Magic token, you may reveal this card from your hand. If you do, when you finish drawing, play this card from your hand.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.
This version has 4 segments, just for Asper's viewing pleasure. XD

Quote
Magical Shield
+(2)
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When another player plays an Attack card, you may discard this from your Tavern mat, if you do, you are unaffected by that Attack. If you have your Magic token, you may put this on top of your deck.
--
When you buy this, you may overpay for it. If you overpaid by P, take your Magic token.

Quote
Tinker
+1 Action
+(2)
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When you put another card on your Tavern mat, you may call this to gain another copy of it. You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
--
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

Quote
Capitol
+1 Card
+2 Actions
Choose one: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy; +(1).
--
When you buy this, +1 VP per unused action you have.

Quote
Capitol
+2 Actions
Choose two: +1 Card; +1 Action; +1 Buy +(1).
--
When you buy this, +1 VP per unused action you have.

Quote
Queen
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(1)
You may trash a card from your hand
Each other player with at least 4 cards in hand discards a card.

Quote
Queen
+1 Card
+1 Action
+(1)
Each other player discards down to 3 cards in his hand.

Quote
Rook
+1 Card
+2 Actions
+(2)
The next two Action cards you play from your hand this turn must have more than one card type.

Quote
Castellan
+(2)
Each player (including you) reveals the top 2 cards of his deck and discards them. Any player that reveals a Knight reveals another card and discards it. You may gain a copy of one of the revealed cards costing from (3) to (6).

Quote
Cantrip
Move your Cantrip token to an Action Supply pile. (During your Action phases, you may reveal a card from that pile from your hand and discard it. If you do, +1 Card.)

Quote
Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile. (When you play a card from that pile from your hand, play it a second time.)

Quote
Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile costing up to (5)P.

Quote
Enchantment
Move your Enchantment token to an Action Supply pile costing no more than this.

Any other suggestions?
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461.weavile

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2016, 07:15:34 pm »
0

Just noticed a fairly large derp.

Let's fix that:

Quote
Tinker
+1 Action
+(2)
Put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When you put a card on your Tavern mat from play, you may call this to gain a copy of it.
You may trash this. If you do, put the card on your Tavern mat.
--
When you buy this, put it on your Tavern mat.

EDIT: It's still derp. Let's try again:

Quote
Tinker
+1 Action
+(2)
You may put this on your Tavern mat.
--
When you put another card on your Tavern mat from play, you may call this to gain a copy of it.
You may trash this. If you do, put the gained card on your Tavern mat.
Also debating whether it should cost 3 or 4, but opening 2 would let you empty the pile somewhat quickly, and the only thing that happens to you is you get a bunch of "Silvers" or you could trash them like nothing happened
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 01:01:52 am by 461.weavile »
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tristan

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Re: Fan Expansion - Warlords and Wizards
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2016, 06:09:27 am »
0

I went again over the  Medallions which are IMO the most innovative idea in this set:

Light is a Peddler and Spirit a Worker's Village so they are perfectly priced at 4$.

Time is a non-terminal Storeroom and probably thus a bit too strong.

Forest is probably also a bit too strong as it is a cantrip VP token gainer which I would test at 5$.

Fire is either a cantrip or a discard-trasher and probably OK.

Shadow is problematic as it is a non-terminal Attack but hand like Sea Hag it does nothing positive for the player and the hand-gaining probably roughly compensates for the non-terminality.

Water is a tad strong. It is always like an Ironworks that gains an Action card, i.e. a non-terminal gainer. It is weaker than Ironworks as you cannot get a card or a coin instead of an action but it is stronger due to the topdecking or handgaining. IMO it is more often than not better than Ironworks.

Darkness is far overpowered. Without the discarding it is a Lab. Unless you play an engine with virtually no treasures the discarding never hurts you so it is probably stronger than a Lab. I think that the card is a good 6$ / weak 7$.
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