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Author Topic: Neat and potentially useful card interactions  (Read 114474 times)

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faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1025 on: July 05, 2017, 05:22:36 pm »
+2

Governor/Mountain Pass

A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 05:26:34 pm by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

schadd

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1026 on: July 05, 2017, 05:37:19 pm »
+4

You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.

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aku_chi

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1027 on: July 11, 2017, 10:24:22 pm »
+11

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

Turn 1: Plan on Gear.
Turn 2: Buy Gear and trash Estate.
Your deck is exactly 7 Copper, 2 Estates, and a Gear.

Over the next 4 turns, your goals are (in priority order):
1) Buy two Gears and trash two Estates.
2) Buy two Golds.
There is a very high likelihood (~86.5%) that you will accomplish these goals.

There are exactly three failure cases:
A. You draw 5 Copper on turn 3. (Likelihood: 8.3%)
B. You draw 3 Copper and 2 Estates on turn 3 (buying Gear and trashing Estate).  Then, your turn 4 Gear draws Copper and Gear. (Likelihood: 4.2%)
C. You draw 4 Copper and a Gear and draw 2 Copper on turn 3 (buying Gold).  Then, you draw 1 Gold, 2 Copper, and 2 Estates on turn 4 (buying Gear and trashing Estate).  Then, you draw 5 Copper on turn 5 or Gear draws Gear. (Likelihood: < 1%)
These are not catastrophic failures.  In each of these cases, you should probably buy a Gear and trash Copper.  Now you spend the rest of the game with one more Estate and one fewer Copper than usual.  This might even help in the mirror (though you're disadvantaged if it comes to Duchy-dancing).

Turns 7+: Buy Province when able, buy a third Gold on the first miss.
I tested this out and consistently got 5 Provinces by turn 12.  After that, the deck starts to falter, but you can go in for Duchies or save up for Provinces depending on the game state.
In a mirror, it might make sense to skip the third Gold and go for Duchies immediately.  Maybe.
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luser

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1028 on: July 21, 2017, 12:09:33 pm »
0

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.
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aku_chi

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1029 on: July 24, 2017, 11:51:38 pm »
+4

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

Could be.  I expect it wouldn't be too hard to simulate.

I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)

The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile.  When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck.  Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat.  This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies).  But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:

Turns 1-6: Buy Silver x4 and Counting House x2.  Prefer to buy the Counting Houses last (potentially even if you have $5 early).  If you get unlucky with a $2 hand, buy a Copper and optionally Scouting Party.  If you open with $5, buy a Scouting Party and Silver.
Turn 7: You'll have 5 cards in your hand and 11 in your deck.  Buy Scouting Party twice, making sure that you have one Counting House in your hand or discard pile.  Buy a Copper.
Turn 8-12: Play Counting House, draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Buy a Province or Duchy.
Turns 13+: Once you have more than 8 non-Copper cards in your discard pile, you'll need to choose between risking a hand with no Counting House (and buying a Province) or buying Scouting Party twice while taking fewer Copper (and buying a Duchy, presumably).  Hopefully the game is almost over.

It's not uncommon to get 4 Provinces and a Duchy by turn 12.  This strategy is mostly unaffected by discard attacks.  Junking attacks actually help in turns 8-11, but they'll hurt both before (if relevant) and after.  This strategy is completely foiled by any cards that can trigger a reshuffle.
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Titandrake

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1030 on: July 25, 2017, 01:37:11 am »
+4

Some of these are old.

In IGG rush games, Triumph almost always gives more points than Duchy because it counts the Coppers you gain from IGG.

Upgrade-Fortress: if you draw your deck, and have 2 Upgrades in hand + a Fortress in hand, you can empty the Upgrades in a single turn, and then next turn use Upgrade to gain tons of Duchies off your Fortress. You lose very fast if you don't have a plan against this.

Scrying Pool-Peasant line: Scrying Pool is an attack, which makes Soldiers give tons of money. Teacher gives you a way to get enough Actions and Buys to use all the money you can get.

Rats-Watchtower: Gets you thin very quickly. If you have both in hand and trash the Rats you gain, it's close to "+2 Cards, +1 Action, trash a card from your hand." This is nuts and is worth going for even if you don't have any other way to trash Rats.

Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.
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Chappy7

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1031 on: July 25, 2017, 12:08:46 pm »
0


Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.

Same goes for trader-cache
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Chris is me

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1032 on: July 25, 2017, 12:30:14 pm »
0

Gear/Plan

Get rid of those pesky Estates while you pick up your three Gears.

I've been playing around with this lately.  It's really strong as a standalone money strategy (if there aren't crippling attacks or good engine Alt VP).  It's extraordinarily consistent - more so than any money strategy I've played.

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

This totally beats Triple Gear. Otherwise you are essentially saying a Silver is better for Gear BM than trashing three Estates without using any Actions. Not having that second Gear on the first shuffle isn't really fatal - it usually misses the second shuffle anyway.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1033 on: July 25, 2017, 12:33:37 pm »
+2

Trader-Death Cart: Gaining Death Cart + 2 Silver for $4 is a pretty great deal, if it's the type of game where you want Silvers. This may be competitive with fast engines but I've never tried timing it.

Well, you're not really gaining it for $4 since you need to leave a $4 costing card in your hand in order to do it, so it's more comparable to paying $4P for it. Of course, the Trader is also useful on its own, so it's better than that.

dedicateddan

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1034 on: July 25, 2017, 02:47:53 pm »
0

I am not sure if this beats triple gear. It could win in 60% by having extra turn/estate vp to offset 40% of bad luck.

I've got another two-card synergy that can work well as a standalone strategy: Counting House + Scouting Party
(Hat tip to Dan Brooks.)

The gist of the strategy is to buy two Counting Houses and alternate playing them and guaranteeing you have one in your next hand with a full discard pile.  When you play Counting House, you should choose to draw all minus C Coppers, where C = 8 - N, where N is the number of non-Copper cards in your discard pile.  Then, buy Scouting Party, triggering a shuffle and leaving 5 cards (including a Counting House) on your deck.  Buy a Province or Duchy with the remaining money, rinse and repeat.  This strategy is bolstered by a way to get more copper early (especially Beggar, but there are lesser synergies).  But, the strategy is pretty strong without any other kingdom cards:

This gets even better with Beggar.

Turn 1 and Turn 2, open Beggar/Beggar + Scouting Party
Turn 3 and Turn 4, play Beggars, buy two Counting Houses (prioritize these over the second Beggar if you are lucky enough to play a turn 2 Beggar)
Turn 5, use Scouting Party to topdeck a Counting House near the bottom of the shuffle, buy a copper
Turn 6+, play Counting House, take enough copper to leave exactly 8 cards in deck + discard, buy Scouting Party once to topdeck a Counting House on a 5 card deck, and buy Province

Looks like a Province every turn 6-13. Faster than most money strategies. An example of 6 provinces on turn 11 is here: #5453546.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1035 on: August 05, 2017, 05:04:27 am »
+1

Bit of an obvious one, but Lurker + Procession. You can keep playing the same Processions over and over again and gain a ton of cards in the process.

Cuzz

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1036 on: August 08, 2017, 11:03:55 am »
+2

Probably well-known but Herbalist-Capital is pretty wow.
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Dylan32

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1037 on: August 08, 2017, 02:55:38 pm »
0

Governor/Mountain Pass

A Governor deck is often able to win without buying a card after it is set up, so you can bid all 40 debt on the first Province gain. You should make sure your opponent is the first to go for Provinces.

Just had this combo, forgot to let opponent take the first one, but they literally didn't bid for it at all. 8 VP for 1 debt, I'll take it.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1038 on: August 12, 2017, 07:34:35 am »
+8

Procession + Duplicate is pretty neat. You play Procession on Duplicate, Duplicate reserves itself, Procession loses track of it, then you gain a $5 Action and may call Duplicate to gain a copy of it.

I guess you could say that Procession has that synergy with any Reserve card, but it's not particularly useful for most of them. Wine Merchant is another noteworthy one.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 07:36:22 am by Awaclus »
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Burning Skull

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1039 on: August 12, 2017, 10:23:58 am »
0

Procession + Duplicate
Got demolished by that recently

faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1040 on: August 31, 2017, 09:29:02 am »
+4

Rebuild/Castles

It's fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 02:21:04 am by faust »
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1041 on: August 31, 2017, 10:58:43 am »
0

Rebuild/Castles

It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.

I just had one of these. I lost, but it was certainly one of the more interesting Rebuild games I've had.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1042 on: August 31, 2017, 11:30:20 am »
0

Rebuild/Castles

It fairly interesting how Rebuild interacts with the Castle pile. You can use them as alternative stepping stones to Province, and on the way you grab the on-gain bonuses from Crumbling, Haunted and (potentially) Grand Castle.
And, gain the on-trash bonus of Crumbling!
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1043 on: September 01, 2017, 04:01:21 am »
+4

Harbinger with Envoy or Advisor is moderately useful for obvious reasons.

AJD

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1044 on: September 01, 2017, 11:48:00 am »
0

I had a good time with Port/Pathfinding/Windfall the other day. (I used the Golds as fodder for my Catapult and Bishop. I don't think I played it optimally, but hey, my opponent resigned, so.)
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faust

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1045 on: September 18, 2017, 04:01:16 am »
+4

Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:

Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.

Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Jacob marley

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1046 on: September 21, 2017, 04:48:35 pm »
0

Just had an interesting Rebuild game (yes it happens!) with two synergies:

Rebuild/Secret Passage
Lets you put the green in your hand right where you want it for Rebuild. Or you can just skip over it.

Rebuild/Triumph
playing 2 Rebuilds and then buying Triumph gives a nice little VP boost and more Rebuild fodder.

Scavenger also works nicely with Rebuild, allowing you to topdeck a Rebuild for next turn, speeding up rebuild plays.
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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1047 on: September 22, 2017, 08:55:17 am »
0

Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.
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Awaclus

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1048 on: September 22, 2017, 10:00:07 am »
0

Caravan Guard is a pretty cool bane. If you have more than one in your hand, you can react with all except one, then reveal the last one as a bane.

Isn't that more of a nombo? You can't use the CG for both its own ability and to protect you from YW.

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Re: Neat and potentially useful card interactions
« Reply #1049 on: September 22, 2017, 12:05:21 pm »
+1

So what's the best bane? Tunnel looks pretty good: it synergises with your own Young Witch on your turn, while defending you against opponents' on theirs.
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