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Author Topic: STAR WARS  (Read 67270 times)

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GendoIkari

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #450 on: December 31, 2019, 02:09:40 pm »
+1

IX was a complete mess of writing; but I thought it was fun.
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blueblimp

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #451 on: December 31, 2019, 02:26:43 pm »
+3

TROS is for me perhaps the worst of the new trilogy because it's the only one where I at times felt bored while watching it in the theater. The combination of nonsensical plot plus relentless action is pretty dull. TLJ was for me the most enjoyable of the three, but it was also a mess that made the badness of the third movie almost inevitable. I guess I'd rank TLJ>TFA>TROS, but really they all played a part in convincing me that I'm done with Star Wars forever.
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silverspawn

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #452 on: December 31, 2019, 03:18:05 pm »
+1

IX was bad even for a star wars movie. Nothing is ever a product of what happened before. It's just a sequence of plot points the author wanted to get to connected by meaningless action scenes, and the resulting story looks like swiss cheese.

Also, all the decisions were lame and cowardly. They don't even had the guts for a single death that hurt.

I don't really get it. Just hire a good writer? They're out there. Why is that so difficult?
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silverspawn

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #453 on: December 31, 2019, 03:33:59 pm »
+1

I think in terms of plot, this is actually the worst star wars movie of all time. It's probably a better watching experience than Phantom Menace, but the plot of Phantom Menace made far more sense. Ditto episode VI. The ending has some similarities, and it's not hard to figure out which movie did a better job pulling off Palpatine's death.
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blueblimp

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #454 on: December 31, 2019, 03:45:20 pm »
+1

It's just a sequence of plot points the author wanted to get to connected by meaningless action scenes, and the resulting story looks like swiss cheese.
One of the many examples of this was


The scene from the teaser trailer where Rey fights a TIE fighter. It's a good teaser, because it makes you wonder how she got into that situation. Then, in the movie, it turns out that it happens for no reason and has no impact on the plot. Argh.
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GendoIkari

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #455 on: December 31, 2019, 07:16:44 pm »
+4

I think in terms of plot, this is actually the worst star wars movie of all time. It's probably a better watching experience than Phantom Menace, but the plot of Phantom Menace made far more sense. Ditto episode VI. The ending has some similarities, and it's not hard to figure out which movie did a better job pulling off Palpatine's death.

Yeah, as I heard some YouTube reviewer say; the prequels may have been done poorly but at least they were a trilogy; it was clear that there was a continuing thought-out story. Not so with the new ones.
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Seprix

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #456 on: January 01, 2020, 07:39:37 am »
0

9 was really really bad.
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silverspawn

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #457 on: January 01, 2020, 08:01:29 am »
+1

On the bright side, I'm all for more female actors in just about any role, particularly the main role, and I thought Rey was pretty well acted. Not so sure about some of the supporting actors, although it's difficult if you're given corny lines.
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Seprix

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #458 on: January 01, 2020, 08:08:32 am »
0

On the bright side, I'm all for more female actors in just about any role, particularly the main role, and I thought Rey was pretty well acted. Not so sure about some of the supporting actors, although it's difficult if you're given corny lines.

The actors were great and did a good job with what they were given, both here and in the prequels (with the exception of Natalie Portman).
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pacovf

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #459 on: January 01, 2020, 05:02:08 pm »
+1

I think I was saddened the most was the squandering of some great ideas. Rey having to choose between letting the Final Order kill the Resistance, or killing Palpatine and becoming a Sith... that was quite the conundrum. Then, of course, it doesn’t matter, and Rey beats Palpatine by... using two lightsabers.
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blueblimp

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #460 on: January 02, 2020, 01:15:55 am »
+2

I think I was saddened the most was the squandering of some great ideas. Rey having to choose between letting the Final Order kill the Resistance, or killing Palpatine and becoming a Sith... that was quite the conundrum. Then, of course, it doesn’t matter, and Rey beats Palpatine by... using two lightsabers.
The way that scene resolved was so weird. In the first part, like you, I thought they were setting up a puzzle, where the rule is: if Rey kills Palpatine, she loses. The obvious way out is for Ben to somehow kill Palpatine instead. The writers could have found a clever way to do that, or could have found a way for someone else entirely to do it. But instead the setup is basically just forgotten once Ben shows up.
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GendoIkari

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #461 on: January 02, 2020, 01:30:46 pm »
+2

I think I was saddened the most was the squandering of some great ideas. Rey having to choose between letting the Final Order kill the Resistance, or killing Palpatine and becoming a Sith... that was quite the conundrum. Then, of course, it doesn’t matter, and Rey beats Palpatine by... using two lightsabers.
The way that scene resolved was so weird. In the first part, like you, I thought they were setting up a puzzle, where the rule is: if Rey kills Palpatine, she loses. The obvious way out is for Ben to somehow kill Palpatine instead. The writers could have found a clever way to do that, or could have found a way for someone else entirely to do it. But instead the setup is basically just forgotten once Ben shows up.

Was episode VI all that different in that way, though? Palpatine tells Luke to kill him, which he says will complete his turn to the dark side. And then eventually Luke does lose his temper and attempt to kill him... Vader stops the killing blow; but the act in Luke's heart was the same whether Vader intervenes here or not. I always though that seemed strange. To me, IX just mirrors VI in this way... Palpatine claims that someone killing him will turn that person to the Dark side, but in both cases it really appears that he was just lying; or at least underestimating the power of the light side to keep people from the dark.
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pacovf

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #462 on: January 02, 2020, 02:40:53 pm »
+2

I feel like there’s a difference. The emperor wanted to prove to Luke that he would succumb to the dark side. Luke wanted to prove to the emperor that he could turn Vader to the light side, by choosing not to fight (although he did momentarily give in to his anger).

In IX, Palpatine doesn’t want to prove anything, he wants to transfer his spirit to a new body, Rey’s. Neither does Rey want to prove anything, she just wants to stop him. When Palpatine says that killing him will turn her into the host of all Sith and Rey refuses to strike him down, it’s not to prove a point or as part of a plan to defeat him, it’s to save Ben. Then Palpatine just drops his previous plan, through no conscious action of the protagonists. It feels cheap in a way that Luke’s choice did not.

EDIT: so many typos due to writing on phone...
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 07:05:56 pm by pacovf »
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ThetaSigma12

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STAR WARS
« Reply #463 on: January 03, 2020, 11:22:37 am »
+4

Preface: I don't know what to spoiler-tag, honestly so much of the plot points felt utterly inconsequential, and the biggest "spoilers" really happened in literally the first 5 minutes or were in the trailer.

I don't think that was an intentional joke though.
I lost it at the opening crawl. Holy crap was that a way to get Palpatine back. And then I got rewarded with Snokes in a Jar two minutes later. Beautiful. I found myself keeping track of all the stupid things that happened, here are some of my thoughts from watching:
  • Palpatine comes out of nowhere. What a huge plot point to introduce in the beginning.
  • Chewy on a second transport was a complete cop-out just for an emotional moment.
  • C-3PO's "death" was also just for an inconsequential emotional moment.
  • The Ach-To scene was extremely short and pretty useless, and definitely felt like another retcon of Luke.
  • Literally all the galaxy comes for Lando after nobody came for Leia in Ep VIII.
  • Beating Palpatine with two lightsabres.
Agree it was a complete mess of writing, but to me, more importantly, it was a massively incompetent trilogy. Characters come in and out of nowhere: Rose has more time in VIII than most of the new people from VII, then gets a minute in IX. Palpatine literally just appears. Maz Kanata never gets explained by the end, and it's unclear why she's even in IX. Oh, and I'm forgetting Captain Phasma too, who only existed for marketing purposes. The endless retcons: Rey's heritage going from "Who are her parents?" to "Her parent's don't matter!" to "...But her Grandparents do!". Snoke made the dyad, but Snoke was Palps, but Palps didn't know and the dyad still existed post-Snoke? There were so many great things about all the movies, but taken as a trilogy, they really feel like a joke to me.

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GendoIkari

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #464 on: January 03, 2020, 02:40:52 pm »
+1

^ Yeah, this is all correct.

I did read an interesting thing about Rose and why she wasn't there much though... they filmed a bunch more with her and Leia, but due to the restrictions they were dealing with due to Carrie Fisher's death; all of those scenes needed to involve a mix of CG and other editing trickery... and they were not able to do it in a way that they found to be satisfactory. So most of her scenes were cut.

Of course, the real way to handle Rose in the trilogy would have been to never introduce her... she's not in 7, adds nothing to 8, and is barely in 9.
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blueblimp

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #465 on: January 03, 2020, 03:29:54 pm »
+2

There were so many great things about all the movies, but taken as a trilogy, they really feel like a joke to me.
They really do feel more like three unrelated movies than a coherent trilogy. That the 3rd movie is frantically retconning elements of the 2nd movie, when they knew _before making the 1st_ that they would be making a trilogy, is pretty unforgivable. Though, to be fair, the OT was a little guilty of this too. (AFAIK, Leia being Luke's sister wasn't decided until writing ROTJ, and that revelation creates some internal consistency problems.)
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AJD

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #466 on: January 03, 2020, 04:51:05 pm »
+3

^ Yeah, this is all correct.

I did read an interesting thing about Rose and why she wasn't there much though... they filmed a bunch more with her and Leia, but due to the restrictions they were dealing with due to Carrie Fisher's death; all of those scenes needed to involve a mix of CG and other editing trickery... and they were not able to do it in a way that they found to be satisfactory. So most of her scenes were cut.

Of course, the real way to handle Rose in the trilogy would have been to never introduce her... she's not in 7, adds nothing to 8, and is barely in 9.

Rose is the heart of 8.

In any event, "they filmed a bunch more with her and Leia" sounds like a cop-out or a pretext to me. If they wanted to include her, they could have written scenes that didn't involve an actress who died a year and a half before filming began.
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ThetaSigma12

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #467 on: January 03, 2020, 10:08:24 pm »
0

In any event, "they filmed a bunch more with her and Leia" sounds like a cop-out or a pretext to me. If they wanted to include her, they could have written scenes that didn't involve an actress who died a year and a half before filming began.

I agree, considering how much CGI trickery they used for reshoots they definitely could have pulled something off. Did you see this twitter thread about how the ending was CGI? There's a bunch more stuff about how reshoots for the ending, Rey's hood being CGI on Ach-To, and changes in Kylo's death scene. They did all kinds of manipulation with this, that excuse doesn't hold up.

That the 3rd movie is frantically retconning elements of the 2nd movie, when they knew _before making the 1st_ that they would be making a trilogy, is pretty unforgivable. Though, to be fair, the OT was a little guilty of this too. (AFAIK, Leia being Luke's sister wasn't decided until writing ROTJ, and that revelation creates some internal consistency problems.)

Last Jedi deserves some shade too, it rewrote a lot of the major questions that VII had tried to set up. Even if IX had tried to continue what VIII set up (which I believe was definitely possible) it would have ended up making VII inconsistent with the rest of the trilogy. I know they didn't do it for the OT, but having a single creative team for all three would have been nice.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 06:28:59 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Kuildeous

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #468 on: January 09, 2020, 01:58:26 pm »
+2

I wasn’t fond of the Chewie cop-out either. It was a clumsy shell game. I had hoped that the whole thing was Kylo clouding Rey’s mind with Dark Side chicanery so that she saw the shuttle explode—all as a ploy to get her to give into anger more. I wish they did that.

I do like the callback to the “I love you” “I know” trope from V and VI. That was brilliantly done.
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Titandrake

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #469 on: January 13, 2020, 04:33:39 pm »
0

qntm has a take here which I like with. https://qntm.org/rise

Some cool ideas, bundled inside a bunch of weird writing.
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Barbarossa41

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #470 on: February 04, 2020, 11:55:23 pm »
+1

Who here has seen The Mandalorian?
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LastFootnote

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #471 on: February 06, 2020, 12:37:57 am »
+2

Who here has seen The Mandalorian?

I have. It’s good! Felt very Star Wars.
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Barbarossa41

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #472 on: February 06, 2020, 01:30:51 am »
+1

Who here has seen The Mandalorian?

I have. It’s good! Felt very Star Wars.


Yeah! my opinion too!
They did telegraph a few of the plot twits though...
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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #473 on: February 08, 2020, 10:33:47 pm »
0

honestly the Mandalorian / TV in general seems like a more natural home for star wars - lets them worldbuild at their own pace, don't have to cram every plot into three hours and then listen to people complain that the movie is three hours long. It felt closer to A New Hope than any member prequel/sequel trilogies, and I'm really glad I got a disney+ subscription to watch it.

Kuildeous

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Re: STAR WARS
« Reply #474 on: February 10, 2020, 10:02:04 am »
+1

Quality show. Very Western feel to it, which makes sense from a Star Wars point of view. While Firefly never got a second season, this makes for a pretty good replacement, atmosphere-wise.

And though some people were up in arms at Stormtroopers punching a baby, that baby is older than me, so I can’t feel bad for it. Maybe belong to a species with a shorter maturation time.
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