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Author Topic: Movies: Any movie buffs?  (Read 94797 times)

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1325 on: October 09, 2017, 11:39:02 pm »
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Have you guys seen the new Star Wars trailer.

Yes

I am really looking forward to episode 8
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1326 on: October 10, 2017, 12:01:13 am »
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About Blade Runner: agree the visuals were impressive, the plot was a bit subpar, the music was good but could have used less blaring horns.

I also liked the police chief.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1327 on: October 10, 2017, 05:51:40 am »
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Have you guys seen the new Star Wars trailer.

No.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1328 on: October 10, 2017, 07:11:26 am »
+1

Have you guys seen the new Star Wars trailer.

It still puzzles me why anyone watches trailers of films they already know they're going to see, so no.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1329 on: October 10, 2017, 07:14:10 am »
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Anything that suffers from SeinfeldIsUnfunny wasn't that great in the first place. Many great works have transcended their time period you know. The original Blade Runner is a great achievment in design and mood, in the service of a poor story with a checked-out actor playing an uninteresting actor, which is all the more evident when a much more interesting character comes in and gives a great monologue about how you'd have had a much better time watching the movie about him.

To mitigate the above; art is subjective in nature so I'm not saying Blade Runner is "dated" or anything silly like that, but I personally was very underwhelmed by it. Looking forward to 2049 though.
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O

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1330 on: October 10, 2017, 07:28:14 am »
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Many great works have transcended their time period you know.

It's not a time period thing, it's a genre-defining thing. Blade runner helped define cyberpunk, and almost all cyberpunk in the 90s can be said to be influenced by it.

I can't really name anything from the 80s that held up better than Blade Runner... Neuromancer I guess? i personally was nonplussed by it. Akira if we're counting Japanese media (which we probably should, as it's cyberpunk)... but even then I feel like Akira is outclassed by the 90s contributions.

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Teproc

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1331 on: October 10, 2017, 07:38:36 am »
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The Lord of the Rings was genre-defining and it's still a great read. To me, that Blade Runner was influential is interesting and a testimony to its place in the history of cinema/art in general, but completely irrelevant as far as it concerns what it is now, and I'd say what is is now is a very flawed film with great design.

I do like Akira more, FWIW. It actually has characters I can care about as well as visual style.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 07:40:03 am by Teproc »
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1332 on: October 10, 2017, 09:08:45 am »
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Funny thing about bringing up Lord of the Rings... Tolkein was the one to argue that Beowulf should be considered "a good piece" and forced it into the English canon for being the first literary work of it's kind, valuing works for their contributions at their time of creation over their current enjoyment. And god does Beowulf suck to read.

The only problem with what you're saying is "wasn't that great to begin with". It was great. Then people built more upon it and it's become somewhat outdated. Maybe it's not great now. It doesn't retroactively erase the innovation or the feeling of the moment.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1333 on: October 10, 2017, 09:31:04 am »
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Right, well the way I see it is that there are two ways to approach a work of art

a) Historically, where one considers the context it was made in and the influence it had. This actually has little to do with the work itself, it's just about how it was perceived and what it meants to people at the time.
b) Artistically, where one considers it for itself, independent of its context.

Blade Runner is undoubtely major in the first approach, but I'd argue it's minor in the second approach. I don't doubt many people watching Blade Runner still find it great though, so that's just me. My "wasn't that great to begin with" was a bit of a flippant generalization to the Seinfeld thing, because I think it's not super productive to say "well, you should find it good because they did it first"... I mean by that metric, the Lumière shorts are the greatest movies of all time, they invented the whole thing !
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1334 on: October 10, 2017, 10:25:26 am »
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I saw a list of 'best sci-fi movies of the 21st century' recently and few of them explore their sci-fi concept as well as Blade Runner. I'm looking at Donnie Darko, Inception (for novelty rather than clarity), and Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Those are all great films. Blade Runner was never a blockbuster. It was intelligent sci-fi that made itself into a cult film.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1335 on: October 13, 2017, 02:44:22 pm »
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Just finished episode 2 of Ken Burns' The Vietnam War. Wow is it a good documentary, looking forward to episode 3. I doubt I'll make it through the whole thing though.

EDIT: Wait, would this actually count as a TV show?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 02:50:37 pm by ThetaSigma12 »
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1336 on: October 14, 2017, 01:23:27 pm »
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Right, well the way I see it is that there are two ways to approach a work of art

a) Historically, where one considers the context it was made in and the influence it had. This actually has little to do with the work itself, it's just about how it was perceived and what it meants to people at the time.
b) Artistically, where one considers it for itself, independent of its context.


As someone who studies literature, I  feel like I need to jump in and point out that these can't be so easily separated. Often, one needs to have an understanding of a work's context in order to understand or appreciate it "artistically".  Furthermore, I'd argue that your "historical" approach most often requires "artistic" evaluation and analysis. And finally, what is "artistically" valued changes over time, so it is inherently context-dependent.

Now, to be less pedantic:

The original Blade Runner is a great achievment in design and mood, in the service of a poor story with a checked-out actor playing an uninteresting actor, which is all the more evident when a much more interesting character comes in and gives a great monologue about how you'd have had a much better time watching the movie about him.

I love how your criticism here is one of my favorite things about the movie. The movie ends with the realization that we've been following and caring about the wrong characters, which I find to be a powerful moment that recolors the entire film on subsequent viewings (and enables the "Deckard is the villain" interpretation that I find really interesting).

I really really enjoyed 2049, and think it can be considered a better movie in a lot of ways, but one thing I felt like it was missing was this kind of unsettling ambiguity.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 02:05:55 pm by tripwire »
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1337 on: October 14, 2017, 04:01:27 pm »
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I don't disagree that the things that are valued in a work of art evolve over time. They also evolve over... space ? What I mean is that I don't believe in the objective value of art (well, art in general maybe, but I don't believe any individual work of art is intrisically good or bad). The distinction I'm putting forward is there, between the purely subjective (what one's individual reaction to an individual work of art is at a given time) and the (pseudo-)objective, which includes the context in which it was made and the context in which it was and is received by the public at large.

Think of it this way: when I watch something like Citizen Kane, I can appreciate it for its historical value, in particular in terms of what its influence was, but that has no bearing on my appreciation of it as a work of art I'm interacting with. That is, if someone tells you "I don't like Citizen Kane because X and Y", responding "but it's important and it invented such and such" is completely missing the point. It's also interesting and also relevant and worth dicsussing, but these are two different discussions.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 04:03:16 pm by Teproc »
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KingZog3

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1338 on: October 14, 2017, 06:22:05 pm »
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I do have one more point on Blade Runner that wasn't discussed, and that's the "romance" scene, which is basically sexual assault. I think that's important to note, as it seems glossed over by many fans. It doesn't take away from the historical relevance, nor do I think the new one (which I do intend to see when I have the time) is going to have it.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1339 on: October 14, 2017, 10:51:43 pm »
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New Project: I watch all of the old Tim Burton Batman movies.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1340 on: October 15, 2017, 11:05:51 am »
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New Project: I watch all of the old Tim Burton Batman movies.

That's only 4 hours. Sounds more like a task than a project.

I know people crapped on Danny DeVito's portrayal of the Penguin, but at least it was a way to humanize him. Prior to that, we had the Batman TV series with a caricature. But then the movie had rocket penguins at the end, so the caricature did come back.

It was a different time then.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1341 on: October 15, 2017, 11:07:22 am »
+1

I do have one more point on Blade Runner that wasn't discussed, and that's the "romance" scene, which is basically sexual assault. I think that's important to note, as it seems glossed over by many fans. It doesn't take away from the historical relevance, nor do I think the new one (which I do intend to see when I have the time) is going to have it.

I remind people of this at times. It sadly fits with the noir setting. It's still awful. Fortunately, I received confirmation that the sequel is far less rapey than the original, so I'm glad to hear that.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1342 on: October 16, 2017, 10:26:57 am »
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New Project: I watch all of the old Tim Burton Batman movies.

I'll admit that even with Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker being more "realistic" and "dark", I still found him less threatening than Jack Nicholson. At least he seemed honest in his attitude. I never bought the humor from Nicholson, which made him much creepier in my opinion.

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1343 on: October 16, 2017, 10:29:22 am »
+1

New Project: I watch all of the old Tim Burton Batman movies.

I'll admit that even with Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker being more "realistic" and "dark", I still found him less threatening than Jack Nicholson. At least he seemed honest in his attitude. I never bought the humor from Nicholson, which made him much creepier in my opinion.

Huh, I think a similar effect can be seen with Tim Curry's Pennywise vs. Bill Skarsgard's Pennywise.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1344 on: October 16, 2017, 10:41:36 am »
+1

I guess the difference is also whether you "believe" Nicholson's Joker or not. Otherwise he just seems campy.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1345 on: October 16, 2017, 02:42:50 pm »
+1

New Project: I watch all of the old Tim Burton Batman movies.

I'll admit that even with Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker being more "realistic" and "dark", I still found him less threatening than Jack Nicholson. At least he seemed honest in his attitude. I never bought the humor from Nicholson, which made him much creepier in my opinion.

Huh, I think a similar effect can be seen with Tim Curry's Pennywise vs. Bill Skarsgard's Pennywise.

In what direction would you apply that? Because I felt Tim Curry was more threatening. To me it had a lot to do with the color scheme, though. The new one looked so much like "this is a scary movie" with his pale colours that I felt "Yeah, this is not real, I'm not scared.". Tim Curry's red hair and colorful costume made him seem much more like a living person, in clown attire, which I felt amplified the effect. I was actually going to write about this here, but my phone ate the post.

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1346 on: October 16, 2017, 02:51:16 pm »
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I guess the difference is also whether you "believe" Nicholson's Joker or not. Otherwise he just seems campy.

I actually think that's part of it. I don't buy Nicholson being the Joker, and as a result the character he's playing makes no sense to me. Heath Ledger's joker made sense however, which meant he was more, uh, relatable to me, I guess?

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1347 on: October 16, 2017, 03:01:50 pm »
+1

New Project: I watch all of the old Tim Burton Batman movies.

I'll admit that even with Heath Ledger's portrayal of the Joker being more "realistic" and "dark", I still found him less threatening than Jack Nicholson. At least he seemed honest in his attitude. I never bought the humor from Nicholson, which made him much creepier in my opinion.

Huh, I think a similar effect can be seen with Tim Curry's Pennywise vs. Bill Skarsgard's Pennywise.

In what direction would you apply that? Because I felt Tim Curry was more threatening. To me it had a lot to do with the color scheme, though. The new one looked so much like "this is a scary movie" with his pale colours that I felt "Yeah, this is not real, I'm not scared.". Tim Curry's red hair and colorful costume made him seem much more like a living person, in clown attire, which I felt amplified the effect. I was actually going to write about this here, but my phone ate the post.

Well I think Curry and Nicholson were similar, and Ledger and Skarsgard were similar.

Tim Curry felt more threatening in a way that his appearance was more 'normal', but wrong enough to give a very disturbing feel. He also at times was overly clowny, in the same manner that real clowns are.  He was more like a psychopath.. he could fit in the normal world (inasmuch as clowns are normal), but secretly he ate children.

Bill Skarsgard's Pennywise always seemed like a monster and never a person. I think Ledger's Joker was similar. Though I agree that in some ways Ledger was more realistic, he didn't seem like someone who, if you came across on the street (without makeup and scars), you would feel comfortable around. Nicholson, though, seemed more like the kind of psychopath you may expect to see in politics or running a company. All smiles, articulate, educated , but under the surface absolutely insane. So if you were to meet him, you might at first think he's a regular outgoing person.

I don't think any one is better than the other in either case; they both have different effects.
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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1348 on: October 16, 2017, 04:39:03 pm »
+2

I think I'm in the majority of thinking that Ledger's joker was way more creepy and dark and scary and believable.

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Re: Movies: Any movie buffs?
« Reply #1349 on: October 20, 2017, 02:58:12 pm »
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A little thing I'm doing for fans up in NEOhio. Sundays at 9pm.
10/22 The Phantom Menace
10/29 Attack of the Clones
11/05 Revenge of the Sith
11/12 Rogue One
11/19 A New Hope
11/26 The Empire Strikes Back
12/03 Return of the Jedi
12/10 The Force Awakens
12/17 The Last Jedi

+--+

Also, Ragnarok fits the Marvel mold very well. Matt Damon was excellent.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:59:49 pm by enfynet »
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