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[TrojH]

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Poor House, Cellar, Shanty Town, Workshop, Caravan, Death Cart, Young Witch, Counting House, Rabble, Witch, King's Court
http://gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20140525/log.5122b3cbe4b0b5ff61e0c4ec.1401067361892.txt

When does King's Court get completely ignored? When the Bane (Shanty Town) pushes it off the screen. 

Actually, I DID know that King's Court was in the game. Still, I never bought one; every time I had the chance, it seemed like buying treasure or VP was a higher priority.

I don't know if my opponent knew that King's Court was in the game. But given his turn 12 buy of a Rabble instead of a King's Court, I'm guessing not. 

[MarkowKette]

I think both, ignoring KC and going Witch BM or going for the KC engine are viable here. The Curse Split is most important.
There is no + buy so you can never get more than one Duchy/Province per turn so you will rarely forego on buying a Province to get a KC instead.
If you hit 7 before the curse split is decided and you have a reasonable amount of actions in your deck you probably want a KC.
If you build the KC engine you still might catch up while constantly attacking with multi rabble. And you have all the Pile control with KC Workshop on DC's.
I'm not sure what is the way to go here but sometimes there is just never a good opportunity to get KC here.

[shark_bait]

There is no + buy

Ruined Market would like to chat. 

I guarantee SCSN would dig for the Ruined Market and play engine.  I mean, it's a tough engine to play as you will have Curses to deal with and no trashing.  But if you can start with 7-10 card hands initially, use Cellar to sift through junk and line up KC/KC with draw it is possible.

[silverspawn]

There is no + buy

Ruined Market would like to chat. 

I guarantee SCSN would dig for the Ruined Market and play engine.  I mean, it's a tough engine to play as you will have Curses to deal with and no trashing.  But if you can start with 7-10 card hands initially, use Cellar to sift through junk and line up KC/KC with draw it is possible.

yes i'm almost certain that you have to build a KC-Engine here. Digging for a ruined market is legit, once you have it you get a total of 4 buys and can catch up from a potential province lead.

[MarkowKette]

There is no + buy

Ruined Market would like to chat. 

I guarantee SCSN would dig for the Ruined Market and play engine.  I mean, it's a tough engine to play as you will have Curses to deal with and no trashing.  But if you can start with 7-10 card hands initially, use Cellar to sift through junk and line up KC/KC with draw it is possible.

That's true so i should add that if there is a ruined market on top then the engine is the clear way to go.
If there is not i still think that Witch BM has good chances.
Btw: is there a way to see if one of the 10 ruins is the market before it show's up on top?
If there is not then i'm still sceptical if it's worth it to dig for it.

[Polk5440]

If Ruined Market is on top, do you open with it? When do you pick it up?

[shark_bait]

Btw: is there a way to see if one of the 10 ruins is the market before it show's up on top?
If there is not then i'm still sceptical if it's worth it to dig for it.

Nope, you'd have to dig and hope that it was one of them.

[TrojH]

There is no + buy so you can never get more than one Duchy/Province per turn so you will rarely forego on buying a Province to get a KC instead.

Sorry, I should have pointed out that this was a Colony game. I don't know if that will change your analysis or not...

[silverspawn]

There is no + buy so you can never get more than one Duchy/Province per turn so you will rarely forego on buying a Province to get a KC instead.

Sorry, I should have pointed out that this was a Colony game. I don't know if that will change your analysis or not...

it shifts the odds even more towards the engine; if there's colony you have more time to build

[Kirian]

If Ruined Market is on top, do you open with it? When do you pick it up?

If it's on top, don't you open DC?  I would assume getting Ruins via DC would be the better way to get them.

[TrojH]

If Ruined Market is on top, do you open with it? When do you pick it up?

If it's on top, don't you open DC?  I would assume getting Ruins via DC would be the better way to get them.

That assumes you have enough for a DC on your first turn. What if you're first player and you have 3 coins in your opening hand? If you're really desperate for the Ruined Market so you can play an engine, maybe you should buy it immediately so your opponent can't get it.

[silverspawn]

If Ruined Market is on top, do you open with it? When do you pick it up?

If it's on top, don't you open DC?  I would assume getting Ruins via DC would be the better way to get them.

That assumes you have enough for a DC on your first turn. What if you're first player and you have 3 coins in your opening hand? If you're really desperate for the Ruined Market so you can play an engine, maybe you should buy it immediately so your opponent can't get it.

buying it with death cart might work, but i really doubt that you want to buy the ruins. you can dig for it later, buying it T1 is just ridiculously bad for an opening.

[TrojH]

I agree that it's a horrible opening, but that's because I think the engine is questionable here. I'm just saying that IF the engine is the way to go, perhaps you better not leave it to chance. That Ruined Market on top of the deck may be the only Ruined Market available.

There's only one way to settle this: we need SCSN to come in here and opine. 

[liopoil]

I can never resist KC. There's cellar for sifting. Rabble stalls the BM player a lot. Engine!!

[lespeutere]

You want to open ruined market/DC in that case, I suppose. DC will get you to 5$ for witch and/or 7$ for KC.

[Davio]

You can probably build an Engine here with most components, because you have the time to do so.

I might even open Workshop/Death Cart to grab Caravans, Shanties and Cellars along the way.
Don't ignore Counting House, because it can grab those Cellared Coppers right back.
And KC-Rabble every single turn will cause a lot of dead turns for the BM player.

You have to be patient thought and really hammer those Caravans, they're quite important, otherwise the junk will cause you to have many single KC-Terminal turns. The power of KC lies in connecting with something good; Caravan (and Cellar) make that job much easier.

Abandoned Market seems like it would be a good opportune gain, but would you really risk getting many Ruins to get it?

[pst]

As for digging for a Ruined Market: If there isn't one on top there is over 10% risk that there isn't a single one in the pile (in a twoplayer game).

(The pile has nine unseen cards and C(39,9) ways to choose these nine cards from the 39 unseen non-RM ruins. That should be compared with the total number of ways to choose nine cards from any of the 49 unseen ruins. C(39,9)/C(49,9) = 0.103.)