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Author Topic: Cultist/Rebuild  (Read 1866 times)

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GeoLib

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Cultist/Rebuild
« on: March 16, 2014, 01:16:29 am »
+1

So I played a game irl with this kingdom today:




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Beggar, Secret Chamber, Squire, Bishop, Mining Village, Contraband, Count, Counting House, Cultist, Rebuild
It was a shelters game with plat/colony.

What do you go for here? Rebuild is strong, especially with Count, but is it strong enough in a colony game, especially facing off against Cultist?

My opponent was first player and got 5/2 and went for Count/Squire. I opened Silver/Silver. I picked up a Count first and then we both went for Cultists. His FPA helped him out in a big way when his 4-cultist turn emptied the ruins pile and my 4-cultist turn immediately afterward did nothing. We split the ruins 6/4 and he was able to trash all of his pretty soon afterward. We both got a platinum. I grabbed a colony and made a desperate attempt to 3-pile on ruins, cultists, and squires (the first two already being empty, and the third had five and I bought three in one turn), but his superior deck won out. What do you guys think on this one? I toyed briefly with Beggar/Counting House/Squire before deciding that there was no way to make it consistent. Poor Counting House.

I think I probably should have gone straight for Cultist (as should he actually), but Count's trashing with Squire's on-trash seemed really nice. The turn before he piled out the ruins, he trashed a hand with 3 squires to pick up 3 cultists.
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KingZog3

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 03:49:11 am »
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1st of all I got beat by a Counting House/Beggar/Warehouse engine once. Anyway I think it's the Shelters that kill Rebuild the most, not the Colonies. I'm not even sure Colonies makes Rebuild that much weaker because the jump up is still a reasonable amount of points. Straight Rebuild would lose though to Rebuild/Count.
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GeoLib

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 12:39:12 pm »
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1st of all I got beat by a Counting House/Beggar/Warehouse engine once. Anyway I think it's the Shelters that kill Rebuild the most, not the Colonies. I'm not even sure Colonies makes Rebuild that much weaker because the jump up is still a reasonable amount of points. Straight Rebuild would lose though to Rebuild/Count.

According to SCSN, shelters make basically no difference to Rebuild's power (though you do have to adjust how you play). I think the Colonies make it slightly weaker because it allows a non-mirroring player to grab colonies to hopefully get enough points before the rush ends it and means that the rebuild player has to kill all 8 provinces on his own.

Warehouse would have made Counting House/Beggar stronger for sure, but I think it would've also tipped this toward Rebuild.
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KingZog3

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 12:58:36 pm »
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1st of all I got beat by a Counting House/Beggar/Warehouse engine once. Anyway I think it's the Shelters that kill Rebuild the most, not the Colonies. I'm not even sure Colonies makes Rebuild that much weaker because the jump up is still a reasonable amount of points. Straight Rebuild would lose though to Rebuild/Count.

According to SCSN, shelters make basically no difference to Rebuild's power (though you do have to adjust how you play). I think the Colonies make it slightly weaker because it allows a non-mirroring player to grab colonies to hopefully get enough points before the rush ends it and means that the rebuild player has to kill all 8 provinces on his own.

Warehouse would have made Counting House/Beggar stronger for sure, but I think it would've also tipped this toward Rebuild.

Of the Counting House thing was just something that happened to me. I wouldn't try it against Rebuild. I just think that Opening 5/2 here I would go Cultist. It kills the rush and allows for you to have enough time to buy VP.
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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 01:35:41 pm »
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Rebuild is rarely a card to be ignored completely.  However, in colony OR shelter games, it is not as critical to purchase it right away (in my opinion).  This game has colonies AND shelters, so I agree that the correct move is to go for cultist or count first.  The decision about picking up a rebuild later on in the game is entirely based on how consistently you are able to buy a colony, or get VPs in some other way. 

This is an example of a game where I would completely ignore rebuild and work on developing a quasi-golden deck.  Start with Count for some good early trashing (including trashing your squire for a cultist if it works out that way), use cultists for draw, throw in some squires for +action (squires are also nice in reestablishing your economy with a couple silvers after trashing away with count).  Once you have all that in place, pick up a bishop (or two) to clear out any additional junk (your silvers and golds once you get up to platinum) and get extra VPs.  I don't really see rebuild being able to keep up.
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shark_bait

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 10:34:27 am »
+1

his 4-cultist turn emptied the ruins pile and my 4-cultist turn immediately afterward did nothing.

Reason why Cultist has the greatest FPA in regards to all of the junkers.  At least with most others you can only play 1 per turn, but Cultist is just obscene in regards to whoever plays the big strand first, not to mention the huge luck associated with lining up early Cultists for extra cycling.
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GeoLib

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 10:55:24 am »
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his 4-cultist turn emptied the ruins pile and my 4-cultist turn immediately afterward did nothing.

Reason why Cultist has the greatest FPA in regards to all of the junkers.  At least with most others you can only play 1 per turn, but Cultist is just obscene in regards to whoever plays the big strand first, not to mention the huge luck associated with lining up early Cultists for extra cycling.

Yeah. That was a bummer. I think I might have mitigated the FPA by buying Cultist on my first 5, though.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 10:55:39 am »
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Rebuild just sifts through all the junk, though. Not seeing why Cultist would even be countered here. Every cultist buy is not a Rebuild, Count or Duchy buy. Let the other guy get Cultists, the junk doesn't hurt anyway.
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GeoLib

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 10:57:32 am »
+2

Rebuild just sifts through all the junk, though. Not seeing why Cultist would even be countered here. Every cultist buy is not a Rebuild, Count or Duchy buy. Let the other guy get Cultists, the junk doesn't hurt anyway.

It hurts if you don't ever draw your Rebuild and they can get a few Colonies before you can empty the provinces.
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pingpongsam

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 11:03:58 am »
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Count can trash a hand if the junk does get thick. I still think Cultist is the losing proposition, here.
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silverspawn

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Re: Cultist/Rebuild
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 11:18:11 pm »
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Count can trash a hand if the junk does get thick. I still think Cultist is the losing proposition, here.

yea i think so too. you will draw your rebuilds less frequently, but so what? you're still going to draw them more often than your opponent. and you can end the game so quickly, just piledrive duchies and estates, then you 3pile with ruins
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