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[Stealth Tomato]

I'm having a day that reminds me why I quit Dominion for awhile.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140307/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1394223849948.txt

In which my opponent opens Sage-Remodel (?) on a Witch board with no good money-generating $4s, spikes 5 Copper on Turn 3 (!) and proceeds to win the Curse split in a game that's never close.

It's possible he had an actual plan, but he wasn't talking... can anyone spot it?

[shark_bait]

May the Goko RNG bless you and keep you;
the Goko RNG make his luck shine upon you and be gracious to you;
the Goko RNG shine his face towards you and give you peace

(Goko) Numbers 6: 24-26

[Witherweaver]

I'm having a day that reminds me why I quit Dominion for awhile.

http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20140307/log.505de22f0cf2ef979299a5d8.1394223849948.txt

In which my opponent opens Sage-Remodel (?) on a Witch board with no good money-generating $4s, spikes 5 Copper on Turn 3 (!) and proceeds to win the Curse split in a game that's never close.

It's possible he had an actual plan, but he wasn't talking... can anyone spot it?

Well, given that you will get 5 Coppers on Turn 3, you'd rather have the Sage and Remodel, right?

[silverspawn]

sucks. i can relate.

[TrojH]

Perhaps you should've bought a Sage at Turn 4, so you can play the Witch more often...

[Stealth Tomato]

Perhaps you should've bought a Sage at Turn 4, so you can play the Witch more often...

Not a bad theory, but the Minstrel fulfills much the same role.

[JOG]

I'd maybe try the sage remodel open here.  The idea would be sage increases remodel estate to wm turns, and then wm increases witch plays.  You're probably going to get the witch a turn or two (maybe more) slower. But, after you remodel an estate or 2 into wm the deck's going to cycle very fast, so witch gets played more often.  Splitting the curses 5/5 with this opening would be reasonable, I think.  Then your deck's going to have more wm's, no estates, but less treasure.  I'd prefer this deck to alternative. 

[Witherweaver]

I'd maybe try the sage remodel open here.  The idea would be sage increases remodel estate to wm turns, and then wm increases witch plays.  You're probably going to get the witch a turn or two (maybe more) slower. But, after you remodel an estate or 2 into wm the deck's going to cycle very fast, so witch gets played more often.  Splitting the curses 5/5 with this opening would be reasonable, I think.  Then your deck's going to have more wm's, no estates, but less treasure.  I'd prefer this deck to alternative.

But opening Sage/Remodel and the Remodeling Estates to Wandering Minstrels makes hitting $5 pretty unlikely...

[shark_bait]

I'd maybe try the sage remodel open here.  The idea would be sage increases remodel estate to wm turns, and then wm increases witch plays.  You're probably going to get the witch a turn or two (maybe more) slower. But, after you remodel an estate or 2 into wm the deck's going to cycle very fast, so witch gets played more often.  Splitting the curses 5/5 with this opening would be reasonable, I think.  Then your deck's going to have more wm's, no estates, but less treasure.  I'd prefer this deck to alternative.

But opening Sage/Remodel and the Remodeling Estates to Wandering Minstrels makes hitting $5 pretty unlikely...

Silver and WM do not mix well.  Gaining WM with the assumption that a Silver will help hit $5 is probably not a good idea.

[Witherweaver]

I'd maybe try the sage remodel open here.  The idea would be sage increases remodel estate to wm turns, and then wm increases witch plays.  You're probably going to get the witch a turn or two (maybe more) slower. But, after you remodel an estate or 2 into wm the deck's going to cycle very fast, so witch gets played more often.  Splitting the curses 5/5 with this opening would be reasonable, I think.  Then your deck's going to have more wm's, no estates, but less treasure.  I'd prefer this deck to alternative.

But opening Sage/Remodel and the Remodeling Estates to Wandering Minstrels makes hitting $5 pretty unlikely...

Silver and WM do not mix well.  Gaining WM with the assumption that a Silver will help hit $5 is probably not a good idea.

Right, so what's the plan to get the Witch?  Do you Remodel your Sage if you draw them together early, or Remodel an extra WM later on?

[JOG]

Idea would be to play remodel or sage, remodel on turn 3 or 4.  Remodel estate into wm, and buy a silver.  Maybe buy a silver on turn 4.
You still have sage to draw silver for witch.  Minstrel could discard silver, and then sage could draw minstrel instead of silver but it's unlikely.

[JOG]

I guess sage could draw remodel too.  Still think you could hit $5 but risk of not getting there might be too great.

[Witherweaver]

Hmmm.. I don't know.. it seems like it would be hard to hit $5.. I guess the WM -> Discard Silver -> Draw Sage -> Use Sage to draw Silver thing is clever, but I'm not sure it would really work.  And you might not have 3 Coppers left in your hand.. though maybe you could Remodel that Silver to a Witch.  It just seems like on average it's going to take a while to get the Witch.. though yes, when you do get it, your deck is set up much more nicely than the money player's.

[DG]

I love the coppersmith and potion at the end, they're like the final insult.

[TheMirrorMan]

Isn't Sage/Silver instead of Silver/Silver an alternative here ?

In the long run, the sage will also skip all the curses.

[Kirian]

Obviously his plan was to sabotage your shuffle luck.

I was going to say something like "Why did you buy HG on T5 with $7 rather than a second Witch?"  Because, I mean, that seems like a pretty reasonable question; I think you want a second Witch here early.

But then I look through some more of the log and see that T7 HG and Witch collided (with no WM), then T9 HG and Witch collided again (with no WM), so buying a second Witch there wouldn't have mattered.  Meanwhile, he hit his Witch on T5, not T7.  And while you were busy getting killed by collisions, he was Remodeling Estates into WM.  GG at that point.

[luser]

A possible plan with sage/remodel is keep buying and remodeling estates to sages till you could remodel to sage to witch. Then you will curse each turn.

[Awaclus]

A possible plan with sage/remodel is keep buying and remodeling estates to sages till you could remodel to sage to witch. Then you will curse each turn.

Yes, with a deck of 7 Coppers, junk, terminal non-$-giving Actions and a ton of Sages you will draw dead with your Witch, you will probably find yourself cursing each turn.

[Stealth Tomato]

A possible plan with sage/remodel is keep buying and remodeling estates to sages till you could remodel to sage to witch. Then you will curse each turn.

I'm not sure that actually works. You need to be able to play a Sage after Witch; otherwise, the Witch triggers a reshuffle on the deck emptied by Sage, then your next turn is a junk draw.

Isn't Sage/Silver instead of Silver/Silver an alternative here ?

In the long run, the sage will also skip all the curses.

It is, I'm just wary of Sage openings because if it collides with your other opening buy (Silver in this case), it's functionally a fourth Estate with the Chancellor upside.

...although if that collision is on T4, it actually works out fine. I should rethink this logic.

[luser]

A possible plan with sage/remodel is keep buying and remodeling estates to sages till you could remodel to sage to witch. Then you will curse each turn.

I'm not sure that actually works. You need to be able to play a Sage after Witch; otherwise, the Witch triggers a reshuffle on the deck emptied by Sage, then your next turn is a junk draw.

You need to follow a sage strategy, you need 3 sages to start chain again on next turn. Minstrel antisynergizes here, and you need to keep number of silver buys small.

Isn't Sage/Silver instead of Silver/Silver an alternative here ?

In the long run, the sage will also skip all the curses.

It is, I'm just wary of Sage openings because if it collides with your other opening buy (Silver in this case), it's functionally a fourth Estate with the Chancellor upside.

...although if that collision is on T4, it actually works out fine. I should rethink this logic.
[/quote]

Also turn 3 collision with silver is not that bad. Unless you draw 3 estates you could get second silver and have ~50% chance of two silvers on turn 4 or 5.