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Topics - Geronimoo

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51
Help! / ...and then the worst deck won
« on: June 14, 2012, 08:17:12 am »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/14/game-20120614-050546-cdc1448e.html

elephantdog (won) goes for a simple Haggler+Courtyard BM-ish deck for Provinces
afkpuezo (second) goes for Vineyard enabled by Haggler
I (last) go for Duchy-Duke enabled by Haggler (buy Duchy-gain Silver so I shouldn't stall ever)

My strategy was probably not the best because of Saboteur and the Vineyard deck which gets enough time for big Vineyard, but the Province strategy seemed worst because he's alone to empty the 12 Provinces and he's going to stall. Maybe I'm wrong here. (I did get the most awful draws like triple terminal collision etc)

52
General Discussion / Do you have wood?
« on: June 14, 2012, 05:42:43 am »


Something similar happened to me at Essen last year. We were playing a prototype of a very complex coop game and the German girl who was teaching us asked me in the middle of the game "Do you have wood?". I turned all red. The other guy at the table looked at me and we laughed. The girl and other girls we were playing with looked at us quizzically, but it was going to be too "hard" to explain. Little embarrassing.

53
Game Reports / I'll trade that Province for 16 bucks
« on: June 12, 2012, 05:53:03 pm »
Post your game log here where you trade your Province away for 8 Silvers (bonus for Colony trading :) )

(turn 11)
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201206/12/game-20120612-144225-9da41c85.html

I got off to a very fast start here with 2 Provinces to their zero, so I figured I could easily trade the Province for 8 Silvers right before my reshuffle and assurer myself of a string of Province buys. Not saying it's the optimal play, but it sure is fun :)

54
Dominion Articles / How's about some Multiplayer
« on: June 08, 2012, 04:32:07 am »
I was going to post this on the main blog directly, but decided I'd give the community a chance to comment first and hopefully add some example games and/or more strategy:

How’s about some multiplayer?
A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
A robot must obey the orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
The three laws by Asimov

How’s about an intro

A few months ago I decided to try a little experiment so I activated my second nick on isotropic. The plan was to prove it’s possible to reach level 20 by playing like a robot whose programming only allows it to play Big Money variants. The nickname “I, Robot” seemed appropriate (I meant no harm). I would stick to buying one action card, then money and green for the rest of the game. Once I, Robot reached level 20 I’d write an article where I prove that big money is really that good…. Wow, did that fail!! Lower level isotropic players are actually quite smart. Even level 0s beat me to a pulp by playing a decent albeit far from optimal engine. I abandoned the experiment to conclude pure big money is only viable at the kitchen table with your mum and sister who felt sorry for you and ok, we’ll play ONE game of Dominion, Kevin, now stop making that puppy face….

My poor little robot was put on the shelf to rust until I saw one of WanderingWinders videos playing multiplayer (TODO: add link). It looked like fun so I rebooted my mechanical friend and anxiously clicked the 3 and 4 player boxes. I waited and waited, but eventually played a few 3 player games and fun was had.

How’s about some strategy now, Geronimoo…

Let’s move on to actual multiplayer strategy and how it differs from two player Dominion. Most of what you learned on this blog about two player Dominion still holds true for multiplayer. Wharf is still bah-roken, Jack will still lead to boring games and King’s Court-King’s Court-Bridge-Bridge-Bridge is still going to end the game right now. But there are a few subtle things that will make you a better multiplayer player if you’re aware of them. I’m not going to go into mechanical details like Tribute and Smugglers not targeting the same player, you’ll figure that out yourself. Let’s get to it!

The best defense is a good offense
Vs
The best weapon against an enemy is another enemy

I’m going to illustrate this with a simplified and very artificial game where players open $5/$2 and are only allowed to open Witch and/or Moat.The rest of the game they may only buy money and VP. This game can be played close to perfection by the simulator. In the two player game it’s obvious that going pure defense with Moat/Moat is awful because your opponent’s Witch/nothing opening will eventually get a few Curses in your deck while suffering no downsides himself. So both players are going to open Witch/Moat because any other choice will hurt their win rate.

The 4 player version of this game is a very different beast. The pure defense option is good for two reasons: fending off an attack is huge, no Curses instead of 3, and the attackers are being attacked themselves even if you don’t have a Witch. The simulator shows that if three players open Witch/Moat, the fourth player will dominate with a Moat/Moat opening! On the other hand if three players go Moat/Moat (not bloody likely) the fourth can safely open Witch and dominate. So, one attacker dominates three defenders and one defender dominates three attackers. Further simulations show two attackers will dominate two defenders. This results in the following optimal strategy for the player in the first seat: open Moat/Moat!! The second player can’t open Moat because player 3 and 4 will open Witch to dominate player 1 and 2. So player 2 goes Witch and this means player 3 and 4 will need to open Witch as well or get dominated. The other scenario where player one opens Witch is not optimal because it will result in player two playing the dominant strategy of being the only defender (player 3 and 4 will be forced into Witch to avoid getting dominated). Does this mean you should open Moat/Moat in a real multiplayer game of Dominion? Maybe not, but this artificial game shows that pure defense is very strong if all the other players are attacking. In this isotropic 3-player game (TODO: add link) I just buy Libraries while the two other players try to get something going with Torturer. These were  low level players playing pretty terrible strategies, but it should be obvious that a few Big Money Torturers will get dominated by Library Big Money.

Ignore the elephant in the room
Vs
Man, that’s a lot of faeces, give me a bigger shovel


It’s close to optimal to get a Gold and then start greening for a Smithy big money strategy because it’s your fastest route to 5 Provinces to win the split. If your single opponent is a Village idiot, you’ll probably need to buy all 8 Provinces and one Gold, then green is no longer optimal. But it won’t matter because you’re going to win anyway so you can stick to your strategy if you wish and basically ignore the elephant in the room. In the three player game ignoring the Village Elephant can cost you the game. It becomes very important to build up the economy some more before greening because you’re no longer aiming for 5 Provinces, but 7 and the Smithy player who builds up a little more, like one or two more Golds, is going to be in better shape to get to 7 before choking.

Kings and beggars
Vs
All are created equal

Quite often one card or combination will dominate an entire kingdom in a two player game. eg Minion and Fool’s Gold will cause a race to win the split. On the other hand there are cards that never get bought like Thief, Pirate Ship and Saboteur because they are just very weak in two player Dominion. Compare this to the 4 player game where winning the Minion split is hardly going to be decisive (3 Minions, whee) while Pirate Ship can be very strong because the odds of missing are close to zero. In multiplayer the cards are more balanced and the entire kingdom is more likely to play. This better balance is probably one of the reasons 3 is the recommended number of players on BoardGameGeek (TODO: add link). This is only true if the skill levels are close together. Minions are still going to dominate if you’re the only one who knows how strong they are.

Aim for the moon
Vs
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush

Two player games will mostly end with “All Provinces are gone” and it’s probably wise to build your deck/economy to reach for those big scoring green cards. Multiplayer games often end on piles and you must take that into account. This is especially true on engine boards where players are collecting multiple components. Piles are going to run out very fast and you might need to transition to greening instead of building up to a mega turn. This makes engine multiplayer games more complex than their 2-player counterpart. As if engines weren’t hard enough already! (TODO: really need some example games here)

It’s not easy being green
Vs
Green is the new Red

Here’s a game (TODO: add link) where a player opens Cache/Estate and pretty much goes green the entire game. I literally lol’ed when I saw it, but look at the final score. She almost won! In a two player game greening this fast will choke you up far before the the game is over, but in multiplayer games three pile endings are much more common and (extremely) aggressive greening can pay off. ehunt used this strategy with success in the multiplayer portion of the Isodom tournament (TODO: add link)

Me, myself and I
Vs
Follow the leader, leader, leader

You’re in a two player game and you’re the better player. Your opponent opens Moneylender. You know Moneylender is ok, but Baron is better, so you open Baron. Nothing special here, moving on. Now imagine you’re in a 4-player game. You’re still the best player and you know it. The first three players open Moneylender. Everyone’s staring at you. Groupthink starts to play and did that Moneylender suddenly blink at you seductively!? Depending on your personality you might give in to it. City is another card where groupthink is very likely to play, but while you can safely ignore the City idiot in a two player game, you’ll turn out to be the mentally challenged if two or three players empty the Cities and you don’t participate. So be aware of groupthink, but mostly try to be confident of your plan and stick to it! I’ll admit it, groupthink has gotten to me before, but then I’m a shy little bunny…

Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them
Vs
Give, and it shall be given to you

Being the fourth in player in an attacking game can be brutal. Now imagine you’re the starting player and play Swindler. You have a chance to turn the poor fourth player’s Copper into yet another Curse. You might want to give him a break and replace it with a Copper instead. He’s no threat to you, so when the end game comes around and the fourth player has a chance to finish the game on piles you might be able to persuade him not to do it so you get an extra turn to win. This won’t come up often and it might even cost you games, but it’s something to keep in mind.

Mind collision
Vs
Mind collusion

Multiplayer games can suffer from collusion, but it’s far more difficult in Dominion because the game is not that interactive. Attacks for instance don’t target single players (you can be selective with Spy, whoopie…). Kingmaking can occur, but it’s always at your own expense as in the previous chapter. Certain boards will allow multiple players to conspire against a single opponent. Here’s an example: player one opens Smithy to go Big Money. The three other players can now open Woodcutter aiming to rush Gardens and outrace the Smithy player on piles despite Woodcutter/Gardens being easily dominated in two player. All in all, collusion in Dominion is never going to be as big an issue as it is for other board games (Here’s a debate about it on the forum http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=2443.msg38189#msg38189)

How’s about ending this
If you’ve ever played multiplayer on isotropic, on purpose or not, you might have been put down by any of these: multiplayer players are weak, MPPs are slow, MPPs disconnect for no apparent reason, MPPs will buy the last Province to finish last and say “oops” which is even more annoying if you had a chance to win, MPPs just aren’t there and you start a two player game against Geronimoo out of desparation…

Despite all that I’m asking you to give it another try! If enough decent players do, we might have some fun with this multiplayer game called Dominion!

55
Solo Challenges / Geronimoo's challenges - Making history
« on: June 02, 2012, 10:53:34 am »
This tends to impress n00bs. Come on, you can do better. Make history, man!!!

Challenge - end the game in the fewest number of turns (points = tiebreaker). You need to score more than 1000 points and the entire board must be empty (yes, Coppers and Curses as well) either buying or gaining every card. You're allowed to choose the kingdom (Colony is allowed). The game from the intro should be a good starting point.

56
Tournaments and Events / Multiplayer league
« on: June 01, 2012, 04:05:56 am »
So we tried organizing a multiplayer tournament and failed. How about a multiplayer league? This could work like the BGGDL of olden days. You play a game (or X games) and register the outcome on the forum. This would take away the burden of trying to match up schedules.
Now we only need someone to set it up.

Discuss!

57
Game Reports / Multi player silliness
« on: May 26, 2012, 09:22:47 am »
WW's latest vids encouraged me to try some multi player. I use my alternate nick (yes, lame, I know) I, Robot.

http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201205/26/game-20120526-060802-9a4b1d0e.html

This game I do all kinds of silly/stupid stuff. Opening Sea Hag/Pawn clearly aiming for Peddlers. Then another guy also buys Sea Hag so I shift a little to get Phil Stones and use the Pawns to gain extra Coppers. Somehow I manage to get a bunch of actions played in a single turn and buy some Peddlers. My Stones quickly reach Platinum level because of the extra Coppers and I start greening. The other guys have obviously seen this vid because they realize Provinces just clog up your deck. My huge lead allows me to buy out the Curses over 2 turns.

The only downside of multi player is the down time between turns. But you feel the game was made for it. Try it, it's fun!

58
Simulation / Simulating challenge - Digger's Delight
« on: May 25, 2012, 05:33:12 am »
Tunnel is often the first card in a kingdom that grabs your attention. You can't help yourself but look for ways to discard it... This challenge is a tunneler's dream come true!!

Challenge - Aim for the lowest #average turns (no opponents). The Gold and Tunnel piles need to be empty (choose the third pile yourself). Make sure your bot doesn't end the game by emptying other piles (add buy conditions like "count in supply > 1"). Use the following kingdom:

Tunnel,Secret Chamber,Tactician,Apprentice,Warehouse,Young Witch,*Hamlet,Watchtower,Inn,Oasis,Salvager,!Colony

One entry with the bot (as a personal message) only per person, deadline friday 1/6.

(there's a solo challenge as well)

59
I can read your mind! Horse shit? No, really! Here, let me prove it (you may look under the black square)

Tunnel

Ok, I'm scanning your brain now....

...

...

scanning

...

...

hmmmm, donuts

...

...

scanning

...

...

The words you're thinking about are Horse Traders. Amazing no?

...

Tunnel is often the first card in a kingdom that grabs your attention. You can't help yourself but look for ways to discard it... This challenge is a tunneler's dream come true!!


Challenge - End the game in the fewest number of turns. The Gold and Tunnel piles need to be empty (choose the third pile yourself). Tiebreaker = most points. If you want to open $5/$2 you're allowed to skip turns until you have it. Use the following kingdom:

Tunnel,Secret Chamber,Tactician,Apprentice,Warehouse,Young Witch,*Hamlet,Watchtower,Inn,Oasis,Salvager,!Colony

One entry with the isotropic log (as a personal message) only per person, deadline friday 1/6.

(there's a simulation challenge as well)

60
Dominion General Discussion / Definitions
« on: May 24, 2012, 04:44:59 am »
There's quite a bit of confusion regarding archetypes. What is a Big Money deck, what is an engine? What is a rush strategy? We need clear and complete definitions.

Here are some ideas:

Big Money
-a linear strategy (the buying power goes up in a straight line, more or less)
-will improve its economy while greening at certain tresholds
-doesn't aim to end the game on piles
(-will always want extra treasures)
(-doesn't require trashing)

engine
-a non-linear strategy
-assembles components until it reaches critical mass at which point it starts greening
-has a method of getting multiple components in one turn (+buy, Ironworks, Upgrading...)
-has one or more "combos" (cards where 1 + 1 > 2)
-can aim to end on piles (mostly in mirrors)

rush
-a linear strategy
-has much lower tresholds to start greening because the aim isn't $8 but $4 or $5
-aims to end the game on piles

more archetypes?? hybrid?? attacking??? pins? Golden decks??
...

61
Dominion General Discussion / The first Dominion quiz
« on: May 19, 2012, 06:08:35 am »
http://www.quizrevolution.com/ch/a163529/go

A little experiment. Hope it's fun. I'd like to create a quiz for the main blog, but there aren't any free quiz creation options. Anyone have suggestions?

62
Other Games / Tichu on iPod
« on: May 18, 2012, 10:36:29 am »
So I just bought Tichu for my iPod Touch and it constantly hangs. I tried re-installing it, but no improvement. I have the latest iOs update and the faq isn't much help either. Anybody else have this problem or direct me to a solution? This is a really fun game to play on the train or but not like this.

63
A few days ago I came across a very interesting board and got crushed. I guess I suck at interesting... do you suck less??

Challenge- End the game on Colonies in the fewest number of turns (points = tiebreaker). You have to open $4/$3 on this board:

Bridge, Cartographer, Colony, Counting House, Haven, Menagerie, Pawn, Pearl Diver, Peddler, Platinum, Trading Post, Worker's Village

One entry with the isotropic log (as a personal message) only per person, deadline friday 5/25. Bonus points if you used Counting House (nah, just kidding :) )

64
Introductions / Groetjes uit België
« on: May 14, 2012, 11:21:17 am »
-37 years old
-Belgian nationality (I like chocolate, waffles and beer)
-wife and 2 children Seth (age 7, hates games, loves sports = my wife), Lewis (age 6, loves games, hates sports = me)
-IT Bachelor, work at AXA as a Software Engineer
-studied classical guitar and play electric guitar
-first addiction: Magic the Gathering. Became a very good amateur player (3rd and 5th at nationals), but not smart enough to compete with the pro's. I still play in a casual weekly draft
-second addiction: Poker. Read 30 books. Became a winning player at small stakes (11% ROI for $10-$20 SnG's), but couldn't handle the gambling with real money.
-third addiction: Dominion. Wrote a simulator in my spare time... at work. Became a very good amateur player... ;)
-other interests: board games (Agricola, Galaxy Trucker), American tv shows (Dexter, Family Guy, American Dad, Breaking Bad), all sorts of non-R&B music (JS Bach, Dream Theater, Slayer, Frank Zappa, Eminem), books (Pratchett, Coetzee, Dutch writers), movies (Matrix, LOTR, Spirited Away), procrastinating like a pro

65
This challenge runs concurrent with the solo challenge.

Challenge - Are you The Ultimate Gardener? Build a bot that finishes the game in less than 18 turns (average number of turns). You are only allowed to use cards from the base set and you are only allowed to buy Gardens and Estates as VP-cards (no Provinces, no Duchies). The Gardens pile must always be emptied. You are not allowed to use Workshop. The winner is the entry with the highest win rate against the built-in Big Money Ultimate (random start). You can use the Start State tab to define a legal opening ($4/$3 or $5/$2)

One entry (as a personal message) only per person, deadline thursday 17/5.

66
One of the strongest and simplest strategies in the Base Dominion set is Workshop-Gardens. If uncontested, this deck will end the game in 18 turns and end up with 43 points on average (Workshops, Estates and Gardens emptied).

Challenge - Are you The Ultimate Gardener? You have to finish the game in 18 turns or less and score more than 43 points. You are only allowed to use cards from the base set and you are only allowed to buy Gardens and Estates as VP-cards (no Provinces, no Duchies). You are not allowed to use Workshop.

Winner=highest points, tiebreaker=least #turns

One entry with the isotropic log (as a personal message) only per person, deadline thursday 17/5.

(this challenge runs concurrent with the simulation challenge)

67
Simulation / Simulation tournament - Governor
« on: May 07, 2012, 06:01:49 am »
This is going to be a slightly special tournament. The purpose is to find the best way to play Governor.

What do I need from you:
-a bot with Governor as the only action card
-play rules for the Governor which I will implement separately for each entry

Who wins:
-the bot that performs best in the mirror (Province game, random start) wins the tournament

What do you win:
-your play rules will be implemented in the next release of the simulator (yes, that might be a while...)
-respect from your fellow simulators/players

Post your entry in this thread.

The play rules need to be fairly simple (but complete) or I won't (be able to) implement them. You can use pseudo-code or even write your own java code that I can insert. Something along these lines :
    * remodel a Gold to a Province
       * if that fails and 3 or less Provinces left in the supply draw 3 cards
          * if that fails, gain a Gold
          
If there is a problem with your play rules, I might contact you to correct it.

68
For my next solo challenge, you're going to need a partner. You'll be working together with another player to complete the challenge. So sign up here if you want to play and state the times you'll be able to play to complete the challenge. I will then randomly and based on available play time pair each player. If you have someone in mind already, you can play with that person if he accepts.
I'll declare and start the challenge when enough players have signed up (enough=when I feel like it).

69
Game Reports / How I was almost crushed by a n00b with $1 Banks
« on: April 29, 2012, 02:35:40 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/29/game-20120429-112207-7e191d1a.html

So this game I quickly decide to go for the good old Hunting Party-Monument. My opponent seems to have the same idea, but then starts buying Banks and Margraves. The first time he plays Bank, he does it before his other treasures so it's only worth $1. I pump the fist, because hey, free win!!! Then his Margrave engine starts to really hurt my Hunting Parties stack and I barely squeeze out the win. That was scary  :o After the game I tell him how Bank works and he's like, oh, I never played with any of these cards before except Village. Ouch, ego crushed...

70
Solo Challenges / [COMPLETE] Geronimoo's challenges - The Black Market
« on: April 28, 2012, 04:00:00 am »
The intro got sucked into the Black Market deck...

Challenge: Finish the game in the shortest amount of turns by emptying the Colonies (buying/gaining them, you don't need to have them all in your deck at end of game). But... you are only allowed to buy cards from the Black Market deck.  To not make this impossible, you're also allowed to buy any number of Black Markets and Colonies, 1 Potion, 1 Silver, 1 Gold and 1 Platinum. Bonus points for emptying the Black Market deck! Choose your own kingdom (but you can't buy any of the cards except for Black Market).

One entry (as a personal message) only per person, deadline Saturday 5/5, GMT+1 9:00 a.m.

71
Short Round:“Indy, Indy, look what I found in trash!”.
Indiana: “What is it, Short Round?”
Short Round: “Some kind of map. Maybe is treasure map?”
Indiana: “We do not follow maps to buried treasure and X never, ever marks the spot."
Short Round: :(
Indiana: “Oh, what the hell, I’m bored, let me see”
Dr. Jones carefully examines the age old document. His eyes pop and he quickly scrambles to his study. Frantic minutes later he discovers the Bible of Donald X Vaccarino under a pile of Playboy mags. It appears the map is part of a collection of 10 maps that together lead to a vast amount of Gold. “This is the real thing, boy! Quick, pack your bags! We’re off to the Wharf!”. “Why boat Indy?” .  “We’re going to find a remote Native Village where I hope to uncover a Warehouse with a Secret Chamber and … there’s no time to loose, we need to go, NOW!”


Help Indy and his sidekick find the treasure! Challenge: open Treasure Map, then work to a mega turn where you trash all 10 Treasure Maps and gain 20 Golds. Shortest amount of turns wins. Huge bonus points if you can make your strategy thematic! Choose your own kingdom, but you need to open Treasure Map.

One entry (as a personal message) only per person, deadline Saturday 28/4, GMT+1 9:00 a.m.

72
Solo Challenges / [COMPLETE] Geronimoo's challenges - Priest gone wild
« on: April 17, 2012, 03:05:55 am »
You're a devout priest, withdrawn in your Chapel. You spend the days praying in solitude. One day, cleaning your chapel, you find a copper coin. You put it in your pocket, but don't think much of it. Next day, you find another copper coin and suddenly realize there's a whole world to discover outside your little chapel. You pack your bags, take the bus to the sea shore and somehow persuade the lighthouse keeper to sell you his property for a mere 2 copper coins. It sure is a crazy world! Who knows what else is possible???

Challenge - End a solo game in the fewest number of turns by buying/gaining all the Provinces. You start with a single Chapel (7 Coppers and 3 Estates in the trash and nothing on mats or anything). Just buy a Chapel and trash down to a single Chapel, at which point the challenge starts.

One entry (as a personal message) only per person, deadline Saturday, GMT+1 9:00 a.m.

73
Dominion General Discussion / Possession, a poll!
« on: April 16, 2012, 04:53:12 am »
Let's do a poll!

74
Game Reports / How lower level players view Possession
« on: April 08, 2012, 04:11:37 pm »
http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201204/08/game-20120408-125337-a5dbffdc.html

I mostly ignore Alchemist on Province boards without +buy and outrace my opponents when they go for it, but this board has Possession which is very nice +buy so I go for it. My lower level opponent (lvl 9 despite 1500 games) opens the very questionable Steward/Steward, but draws quite nicely with a turn 3 Gold (how lucky!) then many more Golds and very soon Provinces. I get a little frustrated as he buys Provinces the turn after I possess him a few times and I vent that. Then I think he's going to buy the last Province for the win so I say "gg" and he takes a pretty long time, so I ask not to slow roll me:

Quote
21:37 Geronimoo: gl hf
21:44 Geronimoo: oh come on
21:45 Phule: ??
21:46 Geronimoo: gg
21:46 Geronimoo: no slow roll please
21:47 Phule: I find it peculiar that someone would feign sportsmanship, etc by saying, "gl hf" and then play Possession...hilarious...then you have the nerve to say that I am slow rolling
21:47 Phule: ridiculous
21:53 Geronimoo: gg
21:53 Phule: gg...ease up on the hypocrisy, tiger
21:53 Phule has returned to the lobby.

So funny how people view Possession as something unsportsmanlike, while all you're doing is taking an extra turn...

75
Simulation / Yet another simulation challenge: Oasis in rush strategies
« on: February 29, 2012, 05:23:57 am »
Pretty simple challenge: create a bot that goes for a rush strategy and buys Oasis over Silver (once or even occasionaly is enough) and beats its counterpart that never buys Oasis. No other action cards are allowed! Rush strategy = Silk Road, IGG, Duke....

This was inspired by this thread

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