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2
Welcome to M118: Pacific Northwest Mafia!

This game will be Sanity Profanity, an open setup for 13 players from MafiaWiki. The flavor will be based on cities and towns of the Pacific Northwest. Setup specific information in the next post.

mod: Iguana Iguana

tags:

Playerlist:

1. Lalight
2. Galzria?
3. Awaclus
4. e
5. McMcsalot
6. Robz888
7. Joseph2302
8. Hydrad
9. Dsell
10. gkrieg13
11. DatSwan
12. faust
13. pingpongsam

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.


The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format:
Unvote: Playername. A simple Unvote may not be caught by the mod due to the mod's method of counting votes.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may
vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. The first time that a day ends without reaching a majority lynch, the player with the most votes will be lynched. After this happens once, if a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods, based on the mod's discretion.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.


Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights

3
Forum Games / Pick Iguana's next "M" mafia setup
« on: August 16, 2018, 06:48:15 pm »
EDIT - New options. Please vote again!

Rusty Guillotine: (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Rusty_Guillotine_Mafia)
14 player game with a delayed lynch death where players can still vote and talk for one day after they are lynched, then die and flip at the end of the next day.

Two-Fold C9++ (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Two-Fold_C9%2B%2B)
15 player 9++ game with both mafia and werewolves and town PRs based on relative strengths of each scum team.

Sanity Profanity:
(https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Sanity_Profanity)
 13 player game with unreliable cop results at the focus of the setup.

Death Rattle: (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Death_Rattle_Mafia)
13 player game where "vengeful enigma" townies are only able to use their abilities once after being night killed by mafia.



5
Welcome to RMM49: Samurai Jack Mafia!

This game will be a closed, invented setup for 12 players. Setup specific information in the next post.

mod: Iguana Iguana

tags: e

Playerlist:

1. Faust
2. Pingpongsam
3. Hydrad
4. DatSwan
5. McMcsalot
6. IDontPlayThisGame
7. Lalight
8. EFHW
9. Gkrieg13
10. Galzria
11. Haddock
12. Robz888

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 36 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.


The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format:
Unvote: Playername. A simple Unvote may not be caught by the mod due to the mod's method of counting votes.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may
vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. The first time that a day ends without reaching a majority lynch, the player with the most votes will be lynched. After this happens once, if a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.


Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights

7
welcome to M115: Okkervil River Mafia

this game will use schadd9++, an invented semi-open setup for 13 players that schadd did one time

mod: Iguana Iguana

tags:

All the little sadies and the literary ladies

1. Robz
2. IDontPlayThisGame
3. McMcsalot
4. e
5. The Wine Merchant Lalight
6. Datswan
7. Spaceanemone
8. Galzria Hydrad
9. Roadrunner Cuzz
10. EFHW
11. O
12. Faust
13. Gkrieg

The Rules:

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.

The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 40 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Dead players may not post in thread or QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
12. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.


The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable, or any string that uniquely identifies a user. Note that the point of voting is, in fact, unambiguity, and attempting to make it unclear to other players (or, of course, mods) which user you are voting for is very ill-advised.
2. Unvotes should be in this format:
unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may
vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.
6. If a majority lynch is not reached by the Day's deadline, no lynch occurs.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 24 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after two prods.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.
8. Each player will receive their own QT, regardless of role. Don't quote from it.
9. If the game goes on for 3 days and 3 nights without a lynch or nightkill, town wins.


Deadlines:
7-day Days, 2-day Nights


8
Hello.

Since there are a few of us who live in Kansas City, I thought it would be cool to get together and play Dominion Empires after it releases. Seems like the best place to play around here is Tabletop Games , so that's my proposed location.

I called Tabletop and they don't know when they are getting Empires in, but it's likely to be in soonish. June 11 seemed like a safe bet for getting together to play it. 2PM seemed like a good time to get together, but if anyone can't make that and wants to suggest another time instead, we could probably do something else.

Post here if you're interested! Also, if you can't make this but live in the area and are interested in some other game night, post that too!

9
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Bracket Wars II (finals!)
« on: April 20, 2016, 05:19:47 pm »
Well, if someone wants to host the NEXT ALL NEW BRACKET WARS, you can do that. I retire as host. I'll play though if anyone wants to try their hand.

Okay, I will:


Welcome to BRACKET WARS II!


1. Haddock
2. Seprix
3. Witherweaver
4. Scott_Pilgrim
5. LaLight
6. Roadrunner7671
7. Liopoil
8. silverspawn
9. e
10. ADK
11. LibraryAdventurer
12. Gkrieg13
13. J Reggie
14. XerxesPraelor
15. Yuma
16. Hydrad

16 players are needed.

Each player will send me two random things/topics/people/nouns via PMs, and I will bracket them using random RandomNG.

Voting in each round will take place in this thread over the course of 24 hours. Only the first 15 votes will count, so that there can't be a tie.

Don't say stuff from Bracket Wars I. 

Whoever owns the item that wins the bracket wins the game.

The only rule is not to reveal what you submitted until both of your words have been knocked out.

10
Non-Mafia Game Threads / Flip Out: A game for 8 players
« on: April 19, 2016, 11:21:23 am »
Flip Out: Flagrantly stolen from Forum Survivor Season 3

Flip out is a game where players stand outside of an 11x11 grid of tiles. On their first turn, each player will move onto the grid of red tiles. On each turn after that, each player will move one square onto a red tile in any direction that is open to them, including diagonally.  When the player moves, the tile they just left flips and becomes yellow. Players may not move onto yellow tiles. If you cannot make a legal move on your turn, you are out of the game.  The last player who can make a legal move on their turn wins the game. If two or more players have both made the same number of moves through the course of the game, it will result in a tie and shared win between those players.

In addition, each player may exercise a special power once during the game on their turn. After using their power, in addition to whatever move they make that turn, the player can flip any one tile on the board. This means either from red to yellow OR yellow to red.  However, players cannot flip squares people are standing on. This action can be taken either directly before or directly after the player's move on that turn.

Here's how turns in the game will look:

When it's your turn, post in this thread, in bold what square in the grid you are moving onto, and the name of the next person to move. Also, post how you choose to use your power if you want to use your power that turn. In the spreadsheet, move your name to the appropriate cell and change the color of your previous cell yellow. If you use your power during your turn, erase your name from the power bank at the top of the sheet and flip the tile you want to flip.

If you do not make a move within 24 hours of your turn, a random move will be assigned to you and the next player's turn will begin. Random moves will be made by the moderator at the moderator's convenience (IE: I'm not getting up in the middle of the night to assign a random move to someone). Players are still eligible to make their own move until the moderator makes a random move for them, even after the 24 hour window has passed.

Sign up order will determine player order for the game.

1. Teamlyle
2. Roadrunner
3. Haddock
4. Ghostofmars
5. Jimmmmm
6. Faust
7. LaLight
8. TwistedArcher


Differences from the forum survivor version of the game:

The ninth player, who starts in the middle, has been removed and this version of the game is for 8 players. However, the empty square in the middle of the board is still there. Starting positions have also been moved one square toward the center of the board to compensate for the missing player in the middle.

All players have a one-shot power, whereas in the survivor version only players who spent energy get to use a power.

Everyone is theoretically trying to win  :P

11
Mafia Game Threads / MAKE ME A GAME
« on: March 18, 2016, 01:55:38 am »
I'm drunk alright this here my bachelers partay but I wanna mafia right now n I ain't in none so gimme

Discuss.

Phone post sry can't reread right now.

12
Dominion General Discussion / Quick, Werothegreat, update the wiki!
« on: February 18, 2016, 08:55:33 pm »
Donald said all kinds of stuff.

13
I swindle copper into curse on turns 4, 6, 7, 10 (x2), and 11.

The first ten or so plays of swindler were so profitable that I stopped playing it in the mid game because I figured there wasn't really anything I could hit that would benefit me.

https://dominion-game-logs.s3.amazonaws.com/game_logs/20160126/log.0.1453852290318.txt

14
Mafia Game Threads / M73: Forest Fire - Game Over - Mafia Wins
« on: December 02, 2015, 04:02:08 pm »
Welcome to M73: Forest Fire Mafia by Iguana Iguana.

This game is for 9 players, and is classified as normal. It is an award winning micro-setup from from the mafiascum wiki; more can be read about the setup here

Co-Mod: EgorK

Sign ups are open.


1. silverspawn
2. roadrunner4741
3. Yuma
4. Gkrieg13
5. Joseph2302
6. Hydrad
7. Awaclus
8. Ashersky
9. Eevee

Game State Tracker:

The Rules:

(Pay special attention to changes to the standard rules at #11 & #12)

The Golden Rule:
This is a game. Everyone who signs up to play must be considerate of each other, never get personal, and focus on having fun. Once the game starts, having signed up is a commitment: inactivity is just as inconsiderate as rude comments.


The Standard Rules:
1. No communication between players outside of the game thread or shared QTs at any time. This includes passing references, jokes, or cases in other games or threads, whether in context or not.
2. If the game thread is locked, do not post. If you are unsure if something is locked, ask the mod by PM.
3. Direct or verbatim quoting of mod-provided information is strictly forbidden. Paraphrasing is okay.
4. Actions with instructions that do not specify a game state will be resolved in the order they are received.
5. All night actions must be submitted within 24 hours of day ending.
6. Players must post once every 24 hours.
7. Do not edit or delete posts, ever. If you need to clarify or correct something, post again.
8. Invisible text, font size less than 10, and spoiler tags are not allowed.
9. Cryptography is not allowed.
10. The time between a lynch being reached and a flip being provided is called twilight. All players may continue posting during this time, including the lynched player.
11. Players who are given the role "Tree" (equivalent to Vanilla Townie) will be tree stumped after a lynch. This means that after they are lynched, they will still be allowed to post in the thread. However, from that point on, they will count as a dead member of their faction, will be unable to vote, and will no longer have a posting requirement. After being lynched, trees can still be destroyed by arsonists, which will remove their ability to participate in the game. Tree stumps will not be given access to the speccy.
12. All other players who die after a lynch (and all players including trees who die after a night kill) will not be tree stumped. Dead players may not post in the thread or any QT, except their Role QT. A lynched player is not "dead" until a flip has been provided.
13. Personal multimedia, such as video or audio recordings, are not allowed in the game thread.

The Voting Rules:
1. Votes should be in this format: Vote: Playername. Unambigiuous nicknames are acceptable.
2. Unvotes should be in this format: unvote or Unvote: Playername.
3. Unvotes are not required if changing your vote from one player to another.
4. You may vote: no lynch.
5. Lynches occur when a simple majority (rounded up) of living players is reached. Once reached, a lynch cannot be undone.

The Rest:
1. Bold, teal text is reserved for the Mod. Players may not use it.
2. If you have an issue or problem with the game, please PM the Mod. Do not post complaints in the game thread.
3. Mods make mistakes - please point them out gently. If they can be corrected, they will. If irreversible, they will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. If a mod error disadvantages one faction greatly, the game may be called off.
5. Ask all questions and make all requests directly to the Mod via PM. Questions deemed as "universal" (defined as questions for which the answers should be available to all players) will be requested to be re-posted in the Game Thread and answered there.
6. One prod will be issued after 48 hours without posting in the game thread. Players are subject to replacement or modkill after one prod.
7. All rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, as determined by the mod.

Deadlines:
1. Days will last six IRL days.
2. Nights will last ~24 hours. (Players will be given 24 hours to submit night actions, then the next day will begin immediately; short nights are due to the simplicity of the setup.)
3. Saturday/Sunday will count as one day for the purposes of this game.

For information about the setup, please go to the Mafiascum wiki page for this setup. The setup will run exactly as outlined on the mafiascum wiki page. The only additional information I will add is flavor.

15
Forum Games / So how do I join a mafia game?
« on: October 27, 2015, 10:28:38 am »
Are there any open?

Also do I have to read like a million things or can I just 'wing it'?

16
Help! / Masquerade big money against IGG rush?
« on: July 05, 2015, 02:44:46 pm »


Code: [Select]
Herbalist, Pearl Diver, Fortune Teller, Masquerade, Trade Route, Horse Traders, Embassy, Highway, Ill-Gotten Gains, Venture
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?/20150705/log.54485813e4b0342f4922b1e1.1436121119419.txt

I got 5/2 here and my opponent got 4/3. It looked like strong big money options, but with no village around I thought IGG would be pretty strong and I didn't want to open embassy and give my opponent a free early silver in a big money game.

I was thinking masquerade would not counter IGG THAT well as you could just pick up your own masquerade on a sub 5 hand and pass curses back. So I open IGG/herbalist (probably the herbalist was worse than nothing. I thought it could put back IGGs, it ended up not being played much) and go mostly for IGG with one horse traders and two masqs.

My opponent on the other hand ignores IGG early and gets a few gold. Early on I'm ahead, then we are close for a long time, and in the late game he can province a few times to pull far enough ahead that I stand no chance of winning.

Was IGG just bad on this board? What should I have done here?

17
Rules Questions / Band of Misfits as Hireling?
« on: June 21, 2015, 11:02:14 am »
With ferry on the board, you can play band of misfits as hireling. Then Band of Misfits stays out each turn and gives you the extra card.

But what happens if the hireling pile runs out? Hireling is no longer in the supply, so does your band of misfits stop giving you the card, or does it continue to be a hireling because it never left play?

We are currently playing an IRL game with these cards so the answer may well determine who wins this game : P

18
Dominion General Discussion / Discussing/Playing Designed Kingdoms
« on: June 01, 2015, 07:00:12 pm »
So, I tried making this as a thread for people to post if they wanted to play each other's designed kingdoms, but there was nothing to discuss there really, and it did not take off. This is take two.

Let's post and discuss designed kingdoms! If you have been working on a kingdom, you can post it here in order to get feedback. If you see a kingdom in this thread, feel free to talk about how you think it should be played, what cards are best and what cards are probably not a serious consideration, what other cards could be interesting in the kingdom instead, etc. As an aside to that, if anyone is interested in playing the kingdoms, post that also and maybe we can make some games happen.

Okay, to start things off, here is a kingdom I have been working on:

Provinces/Estates



Code: [Select]
Hermit, Baron, Bureaucrat, Farming Village, Horse Traders, Counterfeit, Journeyman, Mystic, Rabble, Nobles
To be clear, this isn't the most polished kingdom I've created; I think cards can be swapped here to make it more fun. I'd be eager to here what people think about that.

19
Game Reports / Strange Golem/Pawn Engine
« on: March 29, 2015, 11:40:41 am »
http://www.gokosalvager.com/static/logprettifier.html?20150329/log.516cceeae4b082c74d79f558.1427642773998.txt

So I played poorly early on, letting my opponent get more knights than me and soft locking me out of buying most of what was on the board. I had a key misplay on turn 16, where I bought a province instead of the Dame Josephine, which let my opponent win the knight split 3-0 and basically lock me out of any sort of reasonable deck. All the same, it was fun to win the game on a weird untrashable pawn/golem engine, even if it required a lot of lucky draws on my end and probably some bad purchases on my opponent's part.

20
General Discussion / Anyone into outdoor sports?
« on: March 27, 2015, 03:47:35 pm »
I know this probably isn't the likeliest of places. I actually spend way more time climbing and training for rock climbing than playing dominion, which is probably why my ratings are so mediocre. Just wondering if there are any other outdoor enthusiasts lurking in these virtual caves?

21
Solo Challenges / Baronic Megaturn Challenge
« on: March 23, 2015, 12:51:00 pm »
Ok, so things are about to get totally baronic.

Here is the goal: Play 8 Barons in one turn, producing 12 coin from each baron, and use the money and buys they produce to buy 8 colonies and a province in order to end the game in a single megaturn.

Here are the restrictions:

While you are setting up for the megaturn, you can only produce coin to buy cards by using your starting coppers and by playing baron.

This means you cannot gain copper, silver, gold, or platinum (but you are free to keep and play your starting copper for as long as you want.)

You also cannot gain any kingdom treasures, any actions that produce coin or coin tokens, or cards that reduce the cost of other cards.

You cannot put baker on the board in order to use the starting the coin token.

You cannot use coppersmith to improve the value of your copper.

Cards that remodel other cards or gain cards outright are acceptable as long as they do not also fall into one of the banned categories.

Counting House and Apothecary are okay, as are moat, scout, spy, and pearl diver.

PM me your logs, and I will post a winner after I stop receiving submissions. If you want to submit a log but don't think you will get a chance right away, let me know and I will keep the challenge open for you. Have fun!

22
Introductions / Forum games and dominion league?
« on: March 06, 2015, 11:36:35 am »
Hi. I am WanderingWinder, long time lurker first time poster. As my topic indicates, i'm hoping for responses that can point me in the direction of the forum games and/or dominion league, though I think I'd be able to enjoy both more if i could find the button you use to add all the zaps. My favorite card is the reserve event hot air balloon from dominion adventures, which i think is going to be a bitch to code. So now that I've revealed myself, hopefully we can have a good discussion about how i'm likely to combo with scout! Well, guess there is nothing left to do except explain my own joke. Basically, the joke is funny because even though i've never posted before, i've proved some rudimentary awareness of forum in-jokes by using them, and now the joke is also substantially funnier because i explained it. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read this. Hope to play many of you soon on goko. until then, I'm undefeated against the top 20ish players!!!

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