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[yuma]

I think this setup made it very difficult for town to win because as long as I was alive I wasn't going to lynch arch up through lylo... unless someone took a completely different train of thought than what is expected?

It wasn't the setup that made it difficult for town to win--it was the fact that he loverized you, mr. I'm a confirmed town vig!. I think if he would have loverized nearly anyone else, things would have gone down a lot differently.

that is true to an extent... but look at it this way...

Why didn't mafia kill me? Well because I would always be around to say "don't lynch arch!"

I guess if arch had loverized someone else that could have been lynched it might have been better. Say TA or someone...? And then arch could be lynched later?

I don't know. Because basically the player that is loverized is never going to be night killed by mafia and is thus more likely to continue to survive and continue to say "don't lynch arch!"

[AndrewisFTTW]

WW and ash saying I'm not good at arguing in the speccy QT. What's the deal guys? The game itself was frustrating enough without being insulted and mocked outside of it.

[yuma]

I am also getting increasingly uneasy about yuma. I do not like the effort he put in last day to stop a lynch.

This is blatantly false. Yes I tried to stop a lynch on two towns, both of which ended up being correct and I think ultimately pretty obvious. But before that I tried to work my tail off to get a lynch elsewhere, but was thwarted by scum and misguided town

If you don't want me to put forward effort I'll just randomly roll a dice and shoot whomever it picks for me and then lurk until deadline and then derphammer if I happen to be around... does that work for you?

Voltaire in the speccy said that this is a classic example of a scumtell from me? Cause frustrated yuma is always scum yuma!

Blatantly false!

[AndrewisFTTW]

I'm sorry. I was having a really rough time with this game. There were so many times I wanted to just be done with it but I kept telling myself that's exactly what scum wants and I owe it to the rest of town to see this through. But seriously, I'm sorry if you have a rough time understanding what I'm trying to say or if I'm not making myself clear or whatever. But I've felt personally attacked a few times, including the stuff in this QT. It doesn't exactly motivate me to play more mafia.

[yuma]

Also, I was absolutely livid to wake up lynched. Especially because yuma had known I had logged off for the night due to other posts making that clear. My time zone is well known. We had plenty of time to figure out what was happening. Yuma timed it to where I wouldn't be around to dicuss anything, which was a dick move.

It's happened to others who aren't in the U.S. Town or scum, it's equally frustrating to be lynched in your sleep. Why not wait for me to be able to say something, especially after so long? We had time until deadline. Were they afraid I'd talk them out of it? They couldn't know what I would say anyway, or if I actually wanted to be lynched (remember, I play to win, not survive).

I was just incredibly angry. I've calmed down since. Just, take people's time zones into account when you can, if you are town. The sneak attack is a scum tactic.

And again ash, I do apologize for lynching you in your sleep. Like I said it was intentional, but it was strategical in the sense that I feared your role copping of arch would reveal that I was lovers with him and thus you could make it clear to your scummates during twilight. I do normally try to take into account time zones--and certainly did here.

So I hope you won't think it was a "dick move" but see it was a necessary evil from my perspective to help my team best win...

[AndrewisFTTW]

I think that's part of the game, you don't have to apologize for that.

[yuma]

Also I should mention that my motivation for lynching you ash was mostly based off the assumption that arch was town and that you had rolecopped him.

I wasn't sure of your alignment either way. But felt that for town to have a good chance of winning you needed to be lynched. Because if we lynched your parter you would be able to go into night "knowing" that I was lovers with Arch and could just shoot arch for the win.

So I felt that I needed to 1. lynch you and 2. lynch you w/o you being able to have any last words to have a chance to win.

We ended up being right, but really it was more that I felt there was a 2/3 chance of you being scum and I wanted to hit you before your partner. Of course that was faulty logic to begin with but it was the logic I was working with. It wasn't personal or even an honest read, it was trying to make the right decision to have the best chance of winning.

I did feel kinda scummy the way I was trying to backhandedly manipulate the game though... I'll give you that.

[yuma]

I think that's part of the game, you don't have to apologize for that.

Well I generally think that letting people have the last word is the best way to go. And ash has been lynched in his sleep when he had pertinent information to share before... so I know he doesn't like it... although I think he has dealt out a few hammers when people were sleeping himself.

It is part of the game. But it was the first time I had ever intentionally hammered while someone was asleep... I didn't like it, but felt it was necessary

[AndrewisFTTW]

By the way Jimm if you flavor claimed Faile maybe I would've matched that up with Tracker.

[Witherweaver]

WW and ash saying I'm not good at arguing in the speccy QT. What's the deal guys? The game itself was frustrating enough without being insulted and mocked outside of it.

I realized it seemed like I was insulting you after I said it. I totally didn't mean to, sorry.  But I had a really hard time following things you were saying.  Like there was a severe lack of understanding between us.  I think I would have acted the same way Day 1 towards you if I were town (and been wrong).

[Witherweaver]

So I didn't mean to personally attack you.  I can say that our back and forths weren't faked at all on my end.  I expected you to turn up SK or something, because I was thinking, "why are we arguing?  I don't think I'm being irrational.  This guy is overly defensive and hiding something."

[AndrewisFTTW]

Well it seemed like the running theme of this game for me was people misinterpreting things I was saying or claiming I said something I didn't so I was very frustrated and thus defensive.

[AndrewisFTTW]

And maybe I'm just defensive anyway. I really don't understand why people think that's a scumtell.

[Witherweaver]

And maybe I'm just defensive anyway. I really don't understand why people think that's a scumtell.

Eh, on my end it's probably naivety.  Remember this was my (simultaneous) first game.  It seemed natural to think defensive ->hiding something -> scum.

What I don't get is how Yuma seemed so sure you were town.  I get "the argument isn't good enough to show he's scum", but Yuma seemed very confident in a town read.  I guess that's just experience/intuition/being good at Mafia.

[yuma]

And maybe I'm just defensive anyway. I really don't understand why people think that's a scumtell.

Eh, on my end it's probably naivety.  Remember this was my (simultaneous) first game.  It seemed natural to think defensive ->hiding something -> scum.

What I don't get is how Yuma seemed so sure you were town.  I get "the argument isn't good enough to show he's scum", but Yuma seemed very confident in a town read.  I guess that's just experience/intuition/being good at Mafia.

Well a lot of it was because ash was pressing me constantly that I needed to have an opinion on him... so I kinda created a strong town read on Andrew because of that. scumslip arguments are never going to cut it for me... at some point I want to compile all of the alleged scum slips and see how many actually are. Cause they just aren't... a thing.

From there I actually felt that Andrew responded townie to the pressure put on him... meaning that he responded defensively and aggressively and annoyed (none of these things are scumtells... instead they are emotion tells, which I often think town is more willing to let through than mafia) but really he spoke sense through the emotion and was pretty much town.

I thought andrew played a pretty good game. In the end I voted for him because it really was in my mind a 50/50 decision and neither one made a lot of sense (I guess at that point I should have looked again at arch, but that just wasn't ever going to happen...)

[yuma]

Anyways... this game was fun. I liked it a lot.

Sorry to town for being completely wrong. At least my reads were a little bit better instead of being completely off the whole game...

And it is nice to see mafia win a RMM game, town had a good winning streak going there...

Also, Jimmm your Dice Mafia II can open soon! Once EFHW's game fills right? Just three more spots?

[Witherweaver]

And maybe I'm just defensive anyway. I really don't understand why people think that's a scumtell.

Eh, on my end it's probably naivety.  Remember this was my (simultaneous) first game.  It seemed natural to think defensive ->hiding something -> scum.

What I don't get is how Yuma seemed so sure you were town.  I get "the argument isn't good enough to show he's scum", but Yuma seemed very confident in a town read.  I guess that's just experience/intuition/being good at Mafia.

Well a lot of it was because ash was pressing me constantly that I needed to have an opinion on him... so I kinda created a strong town read on Andrew because of that. scumslip arguments are never going to cut it for me... at some point I want to compile all of the alleged scum slips and see how many actually are. Cause they just aren't... a thing.

From there I actually felt that Andrew responded townie to the pressure put on him... meaning that he responded defensively and aggressively and annoyed (none of these things are scumtells... instead they are emotion tells, which I often think town is more willing to let through than mafia) but really he spoke sense through the emotion and was pretty much town.

I thought andrew played a pretty good game. In the end I voted for him because it really was in my mind a 50/50 decision and neither one made a lot of sense (I guess at that point I should have looked again at arch, but that just wasn't ever going to happen...)

I see.. a lot to learn about this game~

[ashersky]

Well it seemed like the running theme of this game for me was people misinterpreting things I was saying or claiming I said something I didn't so I was very frustrated and thus defensive.

Like I said, I was scum and driving it on purpose.  It wasn't personal, just playing hard to win.

I meant no offense here or in QT.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Well it seemed like the running theme of this game for me was people misinterpreting things I was saying or claiming I said something I didn't so I was very frustrated and thus defensive.

Like I said, I was scum and driving it on purpose.  It wasn't personal, just playing hard to win.

I meant no offense here or in QT.

I understand the above being done on purpose, it's all part of the game.

[Archetype]

Ah man, this game was awesome!! I think ashersky and Witherweaver played a better game, but that fakeclaim carried me a lot longer than I thought it would. But man, Yuma was the perfect target. I originally chose him so that he wouldn't Dayvig me and was very surprised that he trusted me so much. I do feel bad about backstabbing him like that, though. He played a great Town game and really his only major misplay was trusting me so much.

Great setup, mail-mi and Jorbles. I've never read WOT, but now I really want to!

[Archetype]

Seraph Knight Loverizer would be an interesting role, though. Same with DaySK.

[Voltaire]

I am also getting increasingly uneasy about yuma. I do not like the effort he put in last day to stop a lynch.

This is blatantly false. Yes I tried to stop a lynch on two towns, both of which ended up being correct and I think ultimately pretty obvious. But before that I tried to work my tail off to get a lynch elsewhere, but was thwarted by scum and misguided town

If you don't want me to put forward effort I'll just randomly roll a dice and shoot whomever it picks for me and then lurk until deadline and then derphammer if I happen to be around... does that work for you?

Voltaire in the speccy said that this is a classic example of a scumtell from me? Cause frustrated yuma is always scum yuma!

Blatantly false!

And I was wrong!

I was getting really nervous your claim was an ash-style "Imma go down causing max chaos" thing, as you've also seen I think.

[Voltaire]

And maybe I'm just defensive anyway. I really don't understand why people think that's a scumtell.

Eh, on my end it's probably naivety.  Remember this was my (simultaneous) first game.  It seemed natural to think defensive ->hiding something -> scum.

What I don't get is how Yuma seemed so sure you were town.  I get "the argument isn't good enough to show he's scum", but Yuma seemed very confident in a town read.  I guess that's just experience/intuition/being good at Mafia.

Well a lot of it was because ash was pressing me constantly that I needed to have an opinion on him... so I kinda created a strong town read on Andrew because of that. scumslip arguments are never going to cut it for me... at some point I want to compile all of the alleged scum slips and see how many actually are. Cause they just aren't... a thing.

This we agree on!

[Voltaire]

yuma, you played very well! Scum won this game, town didn't lose it.

[Jorbles]

I'm sorry. I was having a really rough time with this game. There were so many times I wanted to just be done with it but I kept telling myself that's exactly what scum wants and I owe it to the rest of town to see this through. But seriously, I'm sorry if you have a rough time understanding what I'm trying to say or if I'm not making myself clear or whatever. But I've felt personally attacked a few times, including the stuff in this QT. It doesn't exactly motivate me to play more mafia.

I do not envy the game you had. Scum spent the entire game making you look bad, which makes for a stressful game. I thought that it was a mistake at the time on the scum team's part because you really were the most powerful town role once yuma had spent his shots, but it was a high risk high reward sort of situation. I thought you did a good job. All things considered.