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[liopoil]

Robz doesn't have many interactions with the three players I am interested in: yuma, teproc, and ichimaru

Yuma: gives him a D1 pass, but that's normal. Says his first post of D2 is a truthbomb. D3 doesn't feel much suspicion for him. D4 poof, first post says that he can't possibly see how yuma can not be scum, and continues to push this.
Ichimaru: hardly anything D1, then on D2 says the case on him is too good it must be terrible. D3 still feels like town, resistant to his lynch. D4 says he's probably scum early on.
Teproc: nothing D1, D2 didn't like his defense of ash, doesn't remember much else. Not excited for his lynch. D3 nothing, D4 at first has him as least scummy of suspects, later flails to make case on Teproc b/c wants to convince me he's scum.

So this just further convinces me that it's Yuma and ichimaru gin.

At this point, here's what I think scum's plan is:

they've realized from yesterday that it is unlikely for them to ever convince me that I should vote for Teproc. Xeiron and e too seemed less likely to vote for Teproc than they are for me. So I believe that scum have decided that they have to get me mislynched if they want to win. Both xeiron and e expressed doubt that I was town, e slightly more than xeiron, but they killed e anyway because killing xeiron would show that he was more right than e and killing e suggests that e was right, slightly at least. So now they are dead set on convincing Teproc or Xeiron to vote for me.

[yuma]

Robz doesn't have many interactions with the three players I am interested in: yuma, teproc, and ichimaru

Yuma: gives him a D1 pass, but that's normal. Says his first post of D2 is a truthbomb. D3 doesn't feel much suspicion for him. D4 poof, first post says that he can't possibly see how yuma can not be scum, and continues to push this.

....

So this just further convinces me that it's Yuma and ichimaru gin.

or it shows that from the start of day4 your and robz's plan was to either bus him or try and get me mislynched. Because you start out pushing hard for Robz to get lynched, but once people start thinking that I might be a better lynch you hop over there lickety-split... thinking you had a chance to win it all yesterday. You over played your cards I think and have been caught... at least you have been caught up for me... I am a little pessimistic that I will be able to convince teproc about this. Xeiron maybe... but it takes three to lynch. I really have no idea what ichimaru thinks about the subject as he has kinda been a revolving door when it comes to opinions on you (kinda makes me think he is your third scum partner, but I am not at all sure about this)...

actually I think having ichimaru as your partner makes sense as it is a good game plan.... if you get me lynched today you win... but you have a nice safe fall back once again in bussing ichimaru so that if he gets lynched you can say "Look! I was right about Robz and Ichimaru, I must be right about yuma as well!" But the other side is a nice option as well if Ichimaru is town then you just put up the two other townies as your lynch options and if one of us is lynched today then you are guaranteed to win... so that is kinda a wash...

[yuma]

Robz doesn't have many interactions with the three players I am interested in: yuma, teproc, and ichimaru

and really I think this points to robz being scum partners with liopoil. Robz creates interactions with his scum partners. He does it amazingly well. See MCommunity where he did so extremely well. I think this points to him and liopoil as they did have scum read interactions (specifically Robz at liopoil) throughout the game up until this last day where robz "pretended" to buddy up to liopoil and have a town read on him...

[Teproc]

I mean, based on how they played day 4, it seems clear to me that the remaining town (from my PoV) is liopoil or yuma. Which means Ichimaru is scum by default. I was having doubts before but I think his play day 4 has been very scummy, which also helps.

That doesn't actually advance us much though, since if we lynch Ichimaru it's just us three staring at each other tomorrow. If xeiron agrees with this, I think our lynch today should be between yuma and liopoil, since we won't have an IC helping figure things out tomorrow. I don't know if xeiron will agree since it might not make sense from his PoV, but that'd be my preference, although I'll certainly vote Ichimaru if that's the way he wants to go.

Looking at final vote counts :

Day 1, Robz is off-wagon (on 2.7), yuma, liopoil and Ichimaru are on wagon. I am off (on Eevee)

Day 2, Robz and liopoil are on-wagon, Ichimaru and yuma are off(on me). I am off (not voting)

Day 3, Robz, Ichimaru and yuma are on-wagon, liopoil is off (on Robz). I am technically off although I was ready to hammer mail-mi once Lekkit came back.

Day 4, yuma, liopoil and myself are on-wagon, Ichimaru is off (not voting).

Also, the liopoil wagon from day 1 looks like this :

liopoil (5): Robz, Eevee, chairs, faust, Ichimaru.

I'll note that yuma was briefly on the wagon as well (after Eevee), but switched to 2.7 for misrepresenting a quote of his.

I still think this speaks in favor of liopoil. Not from the Robz aspect of things : Robz launching this wagon and backing off (he's the first of the five to unvote) is certainly consistent with a Robz/liopoil scum team. Where it gets interesting is that, in oder for yuma to be town, liopoil and Ichimaru have to both be scum. Ichimaru's vote here would be quite ambitious as a first day playing scum : as I said yesterday, I believe Robz would have told him that bussing on day 1 is a bad idea (unless Robz doesn't actually think that ?).

xeiron, since you're the only one I can actually trust, does that reasoning make sense to you ? Or do you believe Ichimaru would put his partner liopoil at L-2 on his first day of playing mafia ever ?
I guess an argument in favor of this is that Robz has said that it's good for scum to have pressure on them early.

[yuma]

That doesn't actually advance us much though, since if we lynch Ichimaru it's just us three staring at each other tomorrow. If xeiron agrees with this, I think our lynch today should be between yuma and liopoil, since we won't have an IC helping figure things out tomorrow. I don't know if xeiron will agree since it might not make sense from his PoV, but that'd be my preference, although I'll certainly vote Ichimaru if that's the way he wants to go.

This is a good point, except that from my point of view it would be deciding between you and Ichimaru today while we still have an IC as I am quite confident liopoil is mafia and am not completely sure about you and ichimaru...

So while this contradicts your post it does make me wonder if figuring out between you and ichimaru today with xeiron's help would be more beneficial...?

[liopoil]

I mean, based on how they played day 4, it seems clear to me that the remaining town (from my PoV) is liopoil or yuma. Which means Ichimaru is scum by default. I was having doubts before but I think his play day 4 has been very scummy, which also helps.

why is this clear from your POV?

Robz and I have been scum together twice, B2B and Toy story. I invite people to go look at those games. I think they'll find it's significantly different from this game.

[liopoil]

Looking at final vote counts :

Day 1, Robz is off-wagon (on 2.7), yuma, liopoil and Ichimaru are on wagon. I am off (on Eevee)

Robz very much supported the faust lynch.

[xeiron]

I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok. I was asleep when you guys killed Robz.
Pretty busy with school right now, but just wanted to check in.

Hmm. Lio hammered. Interesting. I'm taking that as a bus.

Not entirely sure what to make of yuma right now.

PPE: 1

[liopoil]

I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.

I'm not sure if I agree or not. On one hand, I feel more confident about yuma being scum, on the other hand, Teproc sort of has a point in that it doesn't matter because we'll be in the same position tomorrow and we have an IC now.

[xeiron]

I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.

I'm not sure if I agree or not. On one hand, I feel more confident about yuma being scum, on the other hand, Teproc sort of has a point in that it doesn't matter because we'll be in the same position tomorrow and we have an IC now.

We have a IC now, but we have one more day of actions and interactions to base the decition on tomorrow.

As I see it,
Ichimaru is scum
Teproc is town
and then one among Yuma and Liopoil is scum. I am leaning Yuma as scum, but I am less sure about Liopoil's towniness than than I was at when I subbed in last day.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.

I've said this before. I think it is irresponsible to lynch someone without even having an actual posted case on them.

I say this because I know that I am town--and even though we lynched scum yesterday. If you kill me, town will lose.
I don't know if my position on the Robz wagon is at all related to your read on me--but I slept in that morning, and liopoil had already hammered him by the time I woke up.

[Teproc]

xeiron, what do you think of Ichimaru's vote on liopoil day 1, putting him at L-2 ? As I said a few posts above, this is making me doubtful of a liopoil/Ichimaru scumteam (and thus doubtful that liopoil is scum at all).

@Ichi : I'm not putting much stock in your position off-wagon yesterday, no. It's just, you have been opportunistic with your votes on the first few days, and then you approached lylo in a way that didn't seem townie to me. Mostly waiting to see what people were saying and being non-committal, which is exactly what scum does in this case : they want to know which townie is the most likely to be lynched, and which scum they will have to bus. Even outside of that, yuma and liopoil have both done things to make me think they're town, you haven't.

[xeiron]

I think we should lynch Ichimaru next.

I've said this before. I think it is irresponsible to lynch someone without even having an actual posted case on them.

I say this because I know that I am town--and even though we lynched scum yesterday. If you kill me, town will lose.
I don't know if my position on the Robz wagon is at all related to your read on me--but I slept in that morning, and liopoil had already hammered him by the time I woke up.

You do have a point.

I wil try to write a proper case.
I will try to put together something on Yuma, Liopoil and Teproc as well.

That way I can give my thought about who to lynch tomorrow, as I will probably be killed during the night.

But it is sleeping tome for me now, so the cases would have to wait a day or two.

[Ichimaru Gin]

xeiron, what do you think of Ichimaru's vote on liopoil day 1, putting him at L-2 ? As I said a few posts above, this is making me doubtful of a liopoil/Ichimaru scumteam (and thus doubtful that liopoil is scum at all).

@Ichi : I'm not putting much stock in your position off-wagon yesterday, no. It's just, you have been opportunistic with your votes on the first few days, and then you approached lylo in a way that didn't seem townie to me. Mostly waiting to see what people were saying and being non-committal, which is exactly what scum does in this case : they want to know which townie is the most likely to be lynched, and which scum they will have to bus. Even outside of that, yuma and liopoil have both done things to make me think they're town, you haven't.

Ok. Much earlier in this game, I admit that I did some scummy things. But I was still figuring everything out then. I know that you find the so called "newbie excuse" scummy, but for D1 of my first game ever, I think it's stretching it to call out my opportunistic voting. Which is really just, I had no idea what I was doing at that point.

And "I haven't done anything to make you think I'm town". What about

Interesting post by Ichimaru. I do hedge a lot, that's who I am, I'm never sure of anything. I know it's ont good for the game, and I do try to appear more certain than I am (for example, I am certain that pretty much every argument that has been done in the history of mafia can be reduced to WIFOM, because you're never sure scum isn't thinking three steps ahead of you), but I'm apparently failing at that.

That post was very convincing even though it was wrong. Could he have done that as scum ? Maybe. But I don't think so. Unvote

I'm not exactly sure what to make of you at this point. I could see you as a scumpartner for Robz. But at the same time, I think it seems like you're really working as town and trying to be methodical about things.
Still, I take that blanketed statement on me as scummy.

[Teproc]

Yeah, I know I found you townie in that response. I caught some flak for that too, for some reason. I guess it's mostly day 3 and 4 stuff. I still think that response and case on me look townie, but the townie things yuma and liopoil have done far outweigh this.

Oh, and Robz's interactions with you also look very bad. I still need to reread, but he was very dismissive of case on you early day 2, saying it was too easy to be true, even accusing me of being ash's partner redirecting on an easy mislynch.

[liopoil]

yuma has done townie things?

[Teproc]

Well he got the game going back on track (in terms of activity) day 2, and he has been better at seeming townie in the end of day 3. Although his fixating on your dice roll thing is weird, since that made sense from my perspective. I don't know, I'm just second guessing myself all over right now, having nightmares of a Robz/yuma/liopoil scumteam. Eagerly waiting for xeiron's reread, but right now I'm still leaning town on you. I wanted to reread the thread tonight, but there's no rush and I'm tired, so I'll do it tomorrow hopefully.

[xeiron]

xeiron, what do you think of Ichimaru's vote on liopoil day 1, putting him at L-2 ? As I said a few posts above, this is making me doubtful of a liopoil/Ichimaru scumteam (and thus doubtful that liopoil is scum at all).

@Ichi : I'm not putting much stock in your position off-wagon yesterday, no. It's just, you have been opportunistic with your votes on the first few days, and then you approached lylo in a way that didn't seem townie to me. Mostly waiting to see what people were saying and being non-committal, which is exactly what scum does in this case : they want to know which townie is the most likely to be lynched, and which scum they will have to bus. Even outside of that, yuma and liopoil have both done things to make me think they're town, you haven't.

I was not aware of that vote. Thanks for metioning it.

[liopoil]

Well he got the game going back on track (in terms of activity) day 2, and he has been better at seeming townie in the end of day 3.

I don't know what you mean by the D3 thing, and whatever he did to get the game back going D2 is really not something that scum wouldn't do.

[yuma]

Is anyone interested in anything that I have to say?

[yuma]

Is anyone interested in anything that I have to say?

I guess I'll take that as a no.

vote: liopoil

mcmc let me know via PM when the next day begins if I am still alive will you? (least fun game I have ever played. Black-balling me out of the conversation, even if you think I am scum, just isn't right guys. It is rude and completely against the entire point of the game. Frankly town deserves to lose not just for reading me wrong but honestly for being rather arrogantly rude about it).

[Teproc]

What ?

I didn't respond because it seems like a pointless question to me. If you're town you should defend yourself anyway. I don't see any indication that people have given up on you being town. If you read my latest posts, I am having doubts about you being scum, but I guess you'd rather be a victim ?

If you're town, whatever, you're frustrated and I get that, even if it also annoying to me. If you're scum, this kind of AtE is just annoying.

How is anyone "black-bailing" you out of the game, whatever that means ?

[liopoil]

That's kind of ridiculous, nobody posted anything at all since you said that, so none of us were part of the converstation. Even I would at least read anything you post, and would consider if it suggested something that I don't know to be false. (really anything except an accusation against me). I'm sure other players would consider whatever you say too. I apologize if this isn't the case, but this feels faked to me.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Hmm. I find Yuma's comment somewhat strange. At least to me, it is not terribly apparent that he is being ignored. But at the same time, I haven't been following recent things too closely.

I guess the honest question I have to ask is, why would he do this as scum?