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[2.71828.....]

I just finished rereading yuma and have some thoughts.  (I am leaning town on him right now)  I just don't see scum!yuma posting some of the things he did and having some of the reads that he had.  However, if he is town that means I have 3 scum in Robz, Teproc, Ichi, and liopoil.  I need to reread Robz, and that will be my next priority. 

Could everyone put who they think the 3 scum are?  I have some thoughts on this as well but if everyone doesn't mind I would prefer to wait until everyone else has put out this list.

[2.71828.....]

PPE : 2.7, have you thought about a massclaim ? Like the flavour claim, it has a pretty high chance of being useless, but I think it's worth doing in the off chance it isn't.

Everyone will claim VT, so I don't really see the point.  If you have something to claim, please claim.  I am treating everyone as a mafia goon (since scum PRs are worthless now) or VT.

[yuma]

You think Robz is scum, yes. So do I. But, again, you act as if that was a certainty, which it is not, not if you are town at least.

PPE : I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. I just think your reasoning is not that of a town member in lylo.

And that is what I don't get. I am not certain. If I was certain I would be voting, lylo regardless... remember GoT where I was "certain" about Voltaire and allowed scum to slow hammer him...? Well... and even then I learned a lesson there (combined with Toy Story where if I were alive I would have voted for Gveo very early and would have lost the game in lylo there as well....) to not be too hasty with my vote. But morale of the story is that I am not certain and I don't know how you are getting that impression. If you want to see certain... look at liopoil apparently...

Really I don't see how what you are accusing me of doing is any different than what you have done.

I am starting with a basis that Robz is scummy, based off a previous reread--and I want to go look at Ichimaru and liopoil specifically, as I have already looked at you and Robz--to see if they match for potential scum partners before I do anything because for him to be scum he has to have partners... he isn't working in isolation right? You have done the same in finding Robz scummy and then pinpointing Ichimaru and me as his partners... I haven't had time to get to that part done, but will after Tuesday. So I guess if you want to find me scummy because you have time and I don't...

It is like you are finding me suspicious for finding Robz to be scummy and wanting to see who meets the qualifications of him being a partner, of course there is always a chance that Robz isn't scum and no one would fit the demographic of being his partner. Are you afraid that I might discover that it is you who best fits the mold? I am beginning to think that this might be the case.

[yuma]

From your reread of Teproc:

If he is scum I could see him as partners with: robz and possibly mail-mi. Not ichimaru I am thinking.... didn't see much interaction with liopoil....

Why do you not see Teproc as Ichimaru's partner?  Or is this part of the post out-dated (it is like a week old) and you no longer draw that conclusion?

It isn't out-dated. It isn't as strong as an assumption as before given that there is a smaller pool, but I believe that my logic was based off their interactions between each other day2 primarily... the voting for each other, starting wagons on one another was the crux of it I believe.

But this was mostly from Teproc's point of view and I will look at it again from Ichimaru's point of view.

[yuma]

Could everyone put who they think the 3 scum are?  I have some thoughts on this as well but if everyone doesn't mind I would prefer to wait until everyone else has put out this list.

If you can wait until Tuesday I can give you a more definitive answer. I have a guess right now, but it is more based off stuff from today than anything else.

[Robz888]

Who I think is scum:

Yuma, for sure
Liopoil, for nearly sure
Ichi, more likely than Teproc, but not much
Teproc, a little less likely

[Teproc]

I think the scumteam is Robz and yuma + a third, probably Ichimaru.

[Ichimaru Gin]

My vote is on Robz/Teproc/x
Possibly liopoil?

[liopoil]

I think scum is robz, yuma, and either teproc and ichimaru. I put Teproc ahead of ichi before, but I really just am not sure at all. I don't need to make that decision yet, and I will reread both when I do.

No, I'm not certain robz is scum, I'm confident enough that there's no way I'm going to be changing my mind. I'm going to be voting for robz eventually, and so if robz is town scum wins no matter what anyway. If in GoT you were going to be voting voltaire eventually, it didn't matter that you voted earlier. If somehow robz is town and scum wins, the blame should be on me getting it terribly wrong, not on me voting prematurely.

yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.

The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.

PPE: meant to post this this morning, just came back and saw I actually never hit post, so here it is.

[yuma]

yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.

The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.

I agree with you, but when you say something over and over again it adds a sense of urgency to it you must admit yes? And as I am in a position with my personal life where I am not capable of being urgent I want to put the brakes down a bit.

[yuma]

No, I'm not certain robz is scum, I'm confident enough that there's no way I'm going to be changing my mind. I'm going to be voting for robz eventually, and so if robz is town scum wins no matter what anyway. If in GoT you were going to be voting voltaire eventually, it didn't matter that you voted earlier. If somehow robz is town and scum wins, the blame should be on me getting it terribly wrong, not on me voting prematurely.

To respond to the rest of this quote... I agree there is a difference between being certain and being very confident, and I don't really have a problem with you being very confident or voting--really my issue with that is more that I fear others are going to vote quickly before Lekkit and 2.7 can be fully utilized and before I am able to solidify my certainty and explore areas that I want to first, so wanting you to unvote is more out of fear what others might do than any problem with your particular vote.

My real problem is that Teproc is painting me as scummy for "being certain" when my reads and thought process seem to be the same as yours (or at least quite similar to it in the context of what he is speaking about) but he isn't calling you out for it... and is instead fingering me solely.

Or to look at it even more dramatically.... look at Robz. He appears to be "very confident" or even "certain" if I can use Teproc's use of the word that I am mafia but w/o any of the reads and rereads that liopoil and I have done to back it up...  So why isn't Teproc calling Robz out? And again only pointing the suspicion at me for this?

[liopoil]

the top two scumreads for each person given so far (please correct me if this is incorrect):

Liopoil: Robz, Yuma
Robz: Yuma, Liopoil
Yuma: will give answer tomorrow, but seems like robz is his top scumread.
Teproc: Robz, yuma
Ichimaru: Robz, Teproc
e: hasn't given a definitive answer, but seems like ichimaru and robz are probably his top scumreads.
lekkit: hasn't posted since the 16th!! Can we get a prod on Lekkit?

also, nobody posted yesterday. I think everyone ran out of things to say, maybe because we're waiting for yuma, e, and lekkit to decide who they think is scum? That's cool and all, yuma is right, it doesn't matter when we lynch robz. But when is our deadline?

The reason I made this list is because I think it will be interesting to look back on tomorrow. I only did the top two because I think that's all that really is important right now.

[2.71828.....]

e: hasn't given a definitive answer, but seems like ichimaru and robz are probably his top scumreads.

Yeah, I was waiting for other people to give answers first before I responded.  I am doing a Robz reread starting now, so I will come back with a more definitive "I think Robz is scum" or "I do not think Robz is scum" after that.

[2.71828.....]

Can we get a prod on Lekkit?

^^this

[Teproc]

So, this tells us everyone wants to lynch Robz ? That's a little worrying, but with his super scummy hammer on mail-mi, it would make sense for the scum team to just bus him today. Although why even hammer mail-mi then ? I guess one for one trade is pretty good for scum at this point, especially if they know there are no PRs left (Lekkit is basically a VT now).

The thing is : are we really never going to lynch Robz in the next three days because of that ? I don't think so, so we might as well lynch him today and see if we lose right away.

I could vote Robz now but I guess I'll wait for Lekkit to show up and 2.7 to finish his reread.

[Teproc]

As far as the "yuma is too certain about Robz", I feel the need to clarify :
- there is some confirmation bias here. I think yuma is scum for PoE reasons, so I found his certainty scummier than liopoil's because I already thought yuma was scum anyway
- The way I arrived at the conclusion that yuma was probably scum is not something that can convince any other townie. I saw something scummy in yuma's post, so I jumped on it because I'm trying to convince other townies of what I already think.
- they're not exactly the same thing. The way liopoil (and Robz apparently) are certain of someone being scum is just them saying "This guy is scum, we should lynch him". I don't think that is scummy, in fact I'm doing the same thing. If yuma's next post is "Vote: Robz, I'm 100% sure he's scum", I'm not going to find this particularly scummy.

What I saw was :
- liopoil was pushing for Robz's lynch (it certainly read like you were asking me to vote now by the way)
- yuma saw that, and wondered if it meant that liopoil was excited town or just scum bussing. When I saw that, I wondered if it meant that liopoil was scum trying to win the game by lynching Robz. I'm town, so yuma having a very different reaction seemed scummy to me.

Maybe this is all wrong because town!yuma isn't paranoid as me in those situations (come to think of it, he certainly wasn't in GoT), but I don't think it's as ridiculous as yuma makes it sound.

[Teproc]

Also, scum has not quickhammered, so this pretty much confirms for me that robz is scum. while all three haven't been online at the same time, I would expect a slow-mo quickhammer of sorts

I disagree that it means anything. A 3-person quickhammer seems pretty hard to pull off without daychat. ALso, it could mena that you are scum. And I don't like that you are trying to make this you v Robz. Scum bussing would do exactly that I think, to get more towncred from Robz flipping scum.

[liopoil]

If you vote for robz I will unvote. We definitely want to hear from lekkit and e first. I hadn't realized how absent lekkit has been today, and that e actually hadn't given strong reads yet.

I have left open a tab with a post that just says unvote in it ever since I voted for robz, by the way. At first it was just in case of quickhammer, now I don't really need to worry about that (and it's not like I'm going to be around to unvote if needed at all times anyway), but I'm keeping it anyway.

Also, scum has not quickhammered, so this pretty much confirms for me that robz is scum. while all three haven't been online at the same time, I would expect a slow-mo quickhammer of sorts

I disagree that it means anything. A 3-person quickhammer seems pretty hard to pull off without daychat. ALso, it could mena that you are scum. And I don't like that you are trying to make this you v Robz. Scum bussing would do exactly that I think, to get more towncred from Robz flipping scum.

I did say that I doubt it would be an actual quickhammer, but a slower hammer instead. And it confirms FOR ME that robz is scum I said, because I know I'm town. And I do not expect any towncred when robz flips scum and will not be giving towncred to others who suspect robz. Robz was almost certainly going down today anyway. No, when robz flips scum I will be looking at his interactions with players on the first 3 days.

He hammered mail-mi because either him or mail-mi was getting lynched, and if it was mail-mi then robz was getting lynched today regardless of if he hammered.

[Robz888]

Look, is there even a chance we lynch someone other than me today? If the answer is "no," just get on with it, I guess. I mean, it's a huge shame, because I feel like I am going to get blamed for the town's loss, even though really we are in a situation where we SHOULD win, and I can't believe this is happening all over again. Town should have won Chocoloate Factory, too. Here, though, I can't really blame you all for lynching me... I feel like it's really bad luck mail-mi wasn't one of the scum. I hammered him because I was going to be the alternate lynch candidate, and I was not scum. And if I hadn't hammered him, I would have been lynched instead, and town would have lynched mail-mi today and lost as well. I guess think of it this way: In the world where you lynch mail-mi and Robz, in either order, we will always lose. That's the world we're in, but the rest of you just don't know it.

[Robz888]

Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.

[liopoil]

Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.

Robz is doing scum AtE

[Robz888]

Possibly, this is just liopoil telling one of his partners to go for the quickhammer, and his partner, yuma, saying no way man, we got this in the bag anyway.

yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.

The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.

I agree with you, but when you say something over and over again it adds a sense of urgency to it you must admit yes? And as I am in a position with my personal life where I am not capable of being urgent I want to put the brakes down a bit.

[Robz888]

Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.

Robz is doing scum AtE

What is AtE?

[liopoil]

Possibly, this is just liopoil telling one of his partners to go for the quickhammer, and his partner, yuma, saying no way man, we got this in the bag anyway.

yuma - the first thing you quoted is not urging Teproc to vote for robz now. It is saying he should lynch robz. which means voting for him, eventually.

The second one, I suppose is a bit like that. So sure, people shouldn't listen to that and vote before they are ready, though I doubt anyone would anyway.

I agree with you, but when you say something over and over again it adds a sense of urgency to it you must admit yes? And as I am in a position with my personal life where I am not capable of being urgent I want to put the brakes down a bit.

If I am really scum than I have just 2 buddies and can't quickhammer robz. I think robz just gave himself away some more here^^

Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.

Robz is doing scum AtE

Appeal to Emotion... right?

What is AtE?

[liopoil]

Liopoil is doing scum endgame tactics.

Robz is doing scum AtE

What is AtE?

Appeal to Emotion... right?

quote fixed