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[Teproc]

I would rather lynch one of mail-mi, Ichimaru or yuma, but I need to do more rereads first anyway.

As for your previous comment, that's probably fair. It doesn't help that we keep lynching my town reads though.

[Ichimaru Gin]

My preferred lynches are: Teproc or Mail-Mi.
would lynch: Liopoil, Robz
Yuma I'm a little less sure on. I'm trying my best to narrow down my personal lynch pool, but aside from my preferred lynches, I don't feel that strongly either way about most of the people left in the lynch pool. Which I know is really bad.

Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.

This is a horrible line of thinking.

I'm re-reading lio, and he's pretty scummy. Crap.

This has happened to me some when rereading. I feel like I've got a read on someone and then see something that makes me feel exactly the opposite.
I am going to vote: Mail-Mi

I called him out on his 180 reads flip on me with no evidence. It really came across as OMGUS to me--he still hasn't responded to that. He has been lurking a fair amount, and what he has contributed

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

Before I've read anything else

I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)

I would like everyone to read this: YES.

I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)

After I finish my rereads, I'll probably post a longer case on him, but this is a start at least.
I don't know if he has a meta for generally short posts, but I don't see him contributing a lot of content.

Oddly, it seems like there's almost a vote-shy thing going on today. To a degree, any vote on someone in the new lynch pool has a 50% chance of hitting scum if the person is one of the pseduo-IC's, and a 60% chance of hitting scum if the person is in the lynch pool themselves. There are a couple good cases that I see, but aside from Voltaire, Liopoil, and Teproc--with a little from e and Yuma, there's not a lot of contribution. Lekkit's claim really helps town out, so let's use it. Scum has a vested interest in making the game stall right now-when we have more information as town then ever.

[2.71828.....]

Can you give reasons for your scum reads?

I will try to get that down by Sunday.  Travel day tomorrow, so hopefully I will get some time either Saturday night or Sunday afternoon to do a reread and get a more full picture out there.  I just thought it would be good to have some sort of reads out for everyone to see where I stand right now. 

[Teproc]

Robz reread, since he has the most votes on him.

Day 1

#116 : Reluctant to flavor claim
#118 : And then enthusiastic
#119 : Then thinks that would be way too easy
#131 : Looks an awful lot like rolefishing
Scum!Robz would not know if flavour gives away Prs, so he would probably be ok with claiming.
Town!Robz wouldn't know either, but wouldn't he be more careful ? Especially after #119...
#235 : Now supporting claiming makes more sense from a town perspective.
#406 : « I'm caught up, but I don't have like thoughts about anything ». This is how I felt at the time, but does town!Robz ever has that attitude day 1 ? I'm genuinely asking.
#473 : votes liopoil (1) for meta reasons (Toy Story)
#694 : This kind of second-guessing (about liopoil) reads town to me. And while I think « semi-random last minute lynch » is a horrible, horrible idea, he did the same thing in Chocolate as town, so.
#805 : Would rather lynch Eevee than liopoil. His backing off of liopoil is interesting. Could be town surprised that the wagon got going so fast, could be scum worried that his casual bussing is working a little too well. Or distancing himself from a mislynch, but I don't think that's likely at all. People are just not getting suspected for mislynching nowadays, in fact the only person suspected based on voting his me, for NOT mislynching. On-wagon is where it's at for scum. In Chocolate Factory, no townie ever tried to do any kind of wagon analysis. Ever. If I were scum, I would certainly not try to distancing myself from lynches, because it's simply pointless with the current town meta.
#823-939 : Reaction to the faust claim. I've been over this, I read all of this as very townie.
#993 : Votes faust (9 times!) after he said he lied. Is pissed about faust for the rest of the day. That's null for Robz.
#1052 : Actually goes back to 2.7 for his flip-flopping on faust.
#1081 : Wants to move back to liopoil last minute. I really need to read Robz in Modern Community to get a more current idea of his scum!meta, but classic scum!Robz doesn't change his opinion every few days like that.

Day 2

#1151 : votes ashersky (1) for his 100% stance on faust. I don't like this. Day 1, Robz argued that this made ash town, now he thinks it makes him scum ? Changing you mind is not scummy, but I don't get the reason for it at all here, except maybe paranoia because Robz always reads ash as town.
#1227 : somewhat good response to my question here I guess.
#1228 : Saying Ichimaru isn't scum because partners would coach him. Doesn't mean anything for now, but worth keeping in mind if/when one of them flips.
#1285 : Suspects me of being ash's partner for saying this is town!ash and misdirecting on to Ichimaru.
#1308 : reads post ! There's... not a lot in it though.
#1407 : Ok, I think I'm now convinced that the ash tunneling is town!Robz.

Day 3 is a little hard to analyse right now I think. He had some doubts about the Lekkit claim, but didn't push it (although I think it would be suicidal for scum to push those today). It'll all be more interesting when we get flips out of the reduced lynch pool.

Overall, this comforts my opinion that Robz should not be our lynch today. If he and liopoil are both town, it does mean the ash wagon was all town, but that's plausible enough. Maybe I need to reread liopoil next. I would reread my top scum read, mail-mi, but I already know what I'm going to find there, regardless of his alignement. What a lovely meta.

[Teproc]

I guess a post count could be useful with new info, so here's one for each day. This doesn't count pre-game posts

Day 1

Voltaire : 153
2.7 : 144
Robz : 104
ashersky : 103
Teproc : 102
faust : 87
yuma : 67
liopoil : 57
mail-mi : 45
Ichimaru : 37
Eevee : 35
chairs : 31
Lekkit : 27

Day 2

ashersky : 56
yuma : 52
Voltaire : 43
Robz : 39
2.7 : 35
liopoil : 32
Ichimaru : 30
Teproc : 18
mail-mi : 17
Lekkit : 14
chairs : 10

Day 3

Voltaire : 82
Teproc : 64
liopoil : 31
Robz : 23
2.7 : 21
yuma : 19
Ichimaru : 16
Lekkit : 9
mail-mi : 7

Obviously the first thing that you'll see is that I'm extremely low day 2 compared to other days. I was in vacation. I didn't post in the V/LA thread because I was still able to read most day and then come and post once or twice a day. Also, I didn't really have strong reads anyway.

The second thing is yuma's spike in activity day 2, but that's also RL reasons, since he was sick day 1 and is again now I think ?

Other than that... liopoil is a little more active today than he's been. Excited by the reduced lynch pool ? I think the Lekkit claim, if it's true, would cause scum to post a little less (self-serving I know), because scum needs to think hard about whether or not they want to bus, and if they do, who they want to bus.

Anyone else sees something interesting ?

P.S. : I will be semi-V/LA this weekend (it's my mother's birthday if you must know)

[mail-mi]

@Teprocs comment on liopoil: actually, I think that is s bit damning for liopoil. I niticed that a lot in Toy Story, he got more active later as scum. I know I put him as towniest (I think) but evidence is stacking against him.

[liopoil]

mail-mi, that bit of "evidence" was brought up on D1, and D2 a bit... and I already responded that not only is this bad because it discourages lurkers from posting more, but it's also wrong because I've done it as town too. Not only that, but Teproc's comment I believe is intended to point towards me being town.

[yuma]

Finally have a chance to look at this game (I hope):

So my main people I think I want to look at are:

mail-mi, Robz and Teproc (again). Liopoil I feel is worth looking at but I will save for last given that there is some credit to be had for the 2.7 mod mistake error (how much is perhaps debatable, but given that if he is potentially 2 other partners out there to find anyways that would help point to him if we can find them makes me want to not focus on him). Ichimaru doesnt' seem to be a candidate for lynch today and I think he was analyzed yesterday to an extent that if he does become viable there is at least that to reference at a later point.

So let's start (I am just putting down stuff, I might be repeating what others have said, so sorry about that):

mail-mi: I think the main thing to point out about him was that he was a potential candiate for lynch day1 against faust. Voltaire and Teproc voted for him, as did faust at one point.

There wasn't anyone specifically arguing against lynching mail-mi, but there was what I would call movement away from him... I mean part of that was the whole faust thing distracting it, but there was plenty of talk about him from voltaire that went more or less ignored (the tactic I think scum would use in preventing a partner lynch opposed to actively defending), basically a lot of people were saying "I'll vote eevee over mail-mi if we aren't lynching faust" including me.

I'll remind people about the rage "secret-cases" vote against voltaire given that we now believe voltaire to be town... Could be an easy place for scum-mail-mi to put down a vote w/o getting pressure for it?

This post is interesting as well:

My scumminess reads:
Voltaire
liopoil
faust
chairs
ash

given what we know about basically of these people excluding to a minor extent liopoil...

He jumped his vote around all over (e to lio to e to eevee to faust) in a very short space of time toward the end of day. Not sure what to think of that, I mean we kinda saw him do that as mafia in GoT

Day2:

He starts out with a very strong read on ashersky... like the kinda strong town read that I think he might have as scum.... his pokemon reference to sheeping my case on teproc rubbed me the wrong way as well... it is like he was trying to overly dramatize that he was sheeping to negate the fact that he was sheeping and he slowly, nice and gradually shifted his read over to ashersky being scummy (but never voting for him).

Day2 mail-mi is quite different from day1 mail-mi in that he is voting and posting quite a bit less (well christmas for everyone I guess, so really it is the voting that stands out I think. Day1 he was bouncing all over. Day2 he just stayed on 2.7 and teproc all day long)

Day3 non-existant.

Basically I could be willing to vote for mail-mi.

If mail-mi is scum I think his partners could be: Robz, Ichimaru (bussing today), maybe teproc (bussing on day2), maybe liopoil (if you consider him back in the lynch pool, which I don't think we are quite ready to do)

[yuma]

Robz:

He started out with a scum read on liopoil and then introduced the lurker lynch idea... also note that he pretty much excluded mail-mi from this analysis as he votes liopoil, lekkit and eevee, but only ever says about mail-mi "that it is too easy"

He is very aggressive in regard to the faust fakeclaim, pretty much in the same way that he was in response to the morgrim claim in Chocolate Factory.... So either the same response or a good acting job? I do think his unvote when faust showed back up was a townie move, but with robz doesn't mean he is town... Interesting to note that Robz was also pretty adamant at the end that 2.7 should be the lynch of choice if faust isn't lynched.... something that mail-mi picked up heavily on as well and pushed into day2...

Really the main thing I am noticing--and it is probably because I am doing this just after reading mail-mi--is that robz frequently says he is willing to vote for mail-mi, but never does or puts him off to the side for some reason or other...

examples:

You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.

Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.

I'll happily lynch Eevee, mail-mi, or liopoil. I would also lynch Lekkit.

I don't think we should lynch chairs today. I see where you are coming from, 2.7, but this sort of thing seems to backfire on town mostly.

Vote: 2.7 I will be around at deadline and an hour or two before deadline, and will move to Eevee, liopoil, faust, or mail-mi, or faust if necessary. I actually like the faust lynch even more now since if it's wrong, he could shoot 2.7. I don't want him to shoot ashersky, if ash is wrong about faust he's wrong, whatever, town ash has bad early reads and is brashly overconfident all the time. Shoot 2.7, faust!

I'm only going to vote for faust, 2.7, or Eevee.

Day2:
he was strong and hard about ashersky and really that was about all he talked about... slight exaggeration maybe, but pretty much all the important stuff was surrounding ashersky... which is kinda rough because I don't know how to read that whole interaction. It could so easily be a town v town argument because ashersky and robz have had this sort of argument from time immortal it seems and I didn't see anything to separate it from a town v town fight, nor would I expect there to be anything if robz is indeed scum...

other than that he does defend ichimaru, teproc. I don't have too much else to say. He did get a vote from liopoil... and ash I think voted for him? and 2.7. Oh and I voted for him... I didn't remember that. Huh...

I think the only thing he said about mail-mi all day2 was:

Mail-mi: Someone wants to lynch mail-mi, I think? Voltaire, yes? Maybe yuma? Do you still? Why?

Day3: Robz brings up the idea of looking more closely at mail-mi... which he hasn't done PS... except to just come out and say that mail-mi is the scummiest rather out of the blue... realizing that he is going to need to bus his partner?

I think there is a strong argument to be made that robz and mail-mi are potentially scum partners... and as a result I would be willing to vote robz. I don't know which player I think we should lynch first and I am not so sure it matters? I guess I should look at them as potentially mafia, but not partners and figure out that, but like I said I think they could very easily be partners.

I think robz could also be partners with: ichimaru (defending yesterday), Teproc (defending yesterday), liopoil (slight bussing yesterday).

[yuma]

Teproc:

As teproc himself pointed out he was not on either of the two lynch wagons.

I'll add in my case on him from day2 here to reference: which is basically that he admitted to ichimaru's case being good on him, as well as some points from ichimaru himself...

I will point out something that some people appear to find this scummy, but I am not so sure I do, of trying to keep people in the lynch pool... teproc expresses dislike of both me and ichimaru receiving day1 passes--me for my absence, which I admit wasn't really needed--and ichimaru for him being new. I think it is something scum can do--hence why I am including it--but isn't necessarily the scumtell people think it is I think.

Out of the three I have looked at Teproc has had the best reads thus far: He expressed town reads on: voltaire, lekkit, chairs, faust quite early and his scum reads actually include people still in the game: liopoil, robz and ichimaru but these changed rather dramatically toward the end of day...

I think the main point against Teproc is one that is actually kinda a point in favor for him... that is it can be looked at both ways. He strongly defends faust and ashersky both day1 and day2. As I said before that is a tactic that can be used by scum (see me in Wibbley Wobbly against voltgloss) or town (see me on faust in Toy Story). He is never really swayed by any of the arguments presented or by the claims that faust makes

day2: see my case against him up above.

I have noticed that some people are referencing the final vote count from day2 to talk about teproc... I'll do the same:

ashersky (6): Robz(?), Voltaire(t), Lekkit(t), Liopoil(?), 2.71828(t), ashersky(t)
Teproc (4): Ichimaru Gin(?), chairs(t), mail-mi(?), yuma

So from what I am seeing here is that unless both robz and liopoil are scum partners at least one player needed to be bussing teproc for teproc to be scum--we have determined the mafia has to be 3 yes due to the PRs that have been claimed, flipped? I don't think that is much of a stretch myself... but if both are actually town then Teproc would need to be double bussed? That is more significant and would mean from my perspective that the team would be teproc, ichimaru and mail-mi.... and wouldn't be my first choice for a scumteam... So maybe that makes him less of a lynch candidate for today.

Day3: He has defended Robz, He has done somethings that I found to be scummy, i.e. trying to manipulate the flavor claim to make me look bad... the reaction to the liopoil situation, he could possibly fit the bill of a player who anticipated lekkit's claim--he said so himself at one point--(he had a townread on 2.7 and a slight scum read on voltaire btw), but that doens't mean he is scum as I had the same reaction... so that is more null than scummy.

he has stated he wants to lynch one of: me, mail-mi and ichimaru...

So I do read him kinda scummy, but not at the same level as robz or mail-mi and is a player that I think will benefit from having other flips first, I think...

If he is scum I could see him as partners with: robz and possibly mail-mi. Not ichimaru I am thinking.... didn't see much interaction with liopoil....

[2.71828.....]

Goko is actually powered by Forum Games posts.  Recent server issues are entirely due to those gerbils not being active enough in their mafia games, damn it.

Man, I feel guilty about this game now.  Doing a reread now.  thoughts later after I catch up.  I am a little behind right now.

[2.71828.....]

Town: Lekkit, 2.7, Voltaire - Totally believe the claim
mild town: Yuma
mild scum: Robz, Teproc
Stronger scum: Ichimaru, liopoil, mail-mi

I just reread all of Ichimaru and he comes off a lot townier than I thought he would.  His reads have not always been the best, but they really feel like honest town reads to me.  I do not view him as "stronger scum" anymore.  I actually fit him more as "mild town." 

liopoil up next.

[2.71828.....]

liopoil up next.

And by "next" I mean tomorrow.  I will also do mail-mi, and then I will reevaluate from there.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Ok just checking in. I'm happy with my vote on mail-mi for now--though I could also vote Teproc and possibly Robz. Though he's currently the largest wagon, I don't think that lynch is gonna happen right now.
Still undecided on Lio right now, but I'm leaning town on him.

How is just ignoring a vote on you normally read, town or scum? Cause I'm definitely leaning scum on mail-mi. I still haven't posted a larger case yet, but still.

Let's see. Deadline ends the 15th I think.

It'd be nice to hear a little more from Lekkit. I mean his claim was super helpful and everything. Did he post something about being busy for a few days or something?

Anyway, I'll be back tomorrow. Hopefully with a larger case on mail-mi.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 3.4

teproc (1): mail-mi
Robz888 (2) Liopoil, voltaire
mail-mi (1) Ichimaru Gin


Not Voting (5): teproc, Robz, Lekkit, 2.71828, yuma

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: Thursday, January 15th at 8 pm

[liopoil]

can we just lynch robz now?

[yuma]

can we just lynch robz now?

how bout we at least wait until we hear from our two other quasi ICs--2.7 and lekkit--and robz as well now that I think of it...

what's the big rush? you normally like to take it slow...

[liopoil]

no rush, people who aren't sure who they want to lynch should take their time. I'm just impatient because I'm pretty much sure of who I want to lynch. People shouldn't care about me being impatient of course, so yeah, ignore me.

Usually I'm much more undecided.

[Lekkit]

I'll be getting to this tomorrow for real. Between lack of sleep and the forums being down, I haven't really felt up to this.

[Voltaire]

yuma is now out of my lynch pool today. He sheeped all of my reads/reasoning that I didn't post. Maybe I hinted at stuff, but man. We are thinking the same way.

I would also lynch Robz or mail-mi. I'd rather lynch Robz though.

[Robz888]

Uh, I'm behind. Sorry, I know that's not helping, and I'm not helping. Is there something I should do, or answer, other than re-read and give reads?

[yuma]

Uh, I'm behind. Sorry, I know that's not helping, and I'm not helping. Is there something I should do, or answer, other than re-read and give reads?

I think focusing on those last two followed up by responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficial in that order.... same goes for mail-mi where ever he is...

[Ichimaru Gin]

Yeah. I'm only able to get this page to load periodically. Still haven't done a full case on mail-mi, been a pretty hectic weekend.
How long are these problems with the forum going to last?

[mail-mi]

responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficial

can i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.

[yuma]

focusing on those last two (re-read and reads) followed up by responses to points/cases against you would be most beneficial in that order....

can i have a full case to respond to? because i don't see one.

I fixed my quote for you....

I think if you re-read and give reads you find some points to address. I don't think there is a specific post with a case against you.... nor do i think there needs to be one for you to respond