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[Voltaire]

also can someone summarize the whole liopoil thing in regard to 2.7's flavor for me. I missed that in real time and kinda glossed over it, but it appears that some seem to think it has real implications. I would greatly appreciate a summary.

lio noticed that ash flipped with e's claimed flavor name. He requested that e answer/double-check/explain this. But before e could, we all worked out the possible options and concluded that mod error was the likeliest, and that this was most likely to mean e is town (lio agreed/said this himself).

So if he were scum, why did he point this out to create a pseudo-IC? (which is what would have happened to e since this was prior to Lekkit's claim).

[Voltaire]

It starts here at 1541, yuma.

Voltaire: my biggest townread.  Like robz said, he's been exactly like normal town voltaire, and it doesn't seem fake. I first got the townread from his reactions at the very start of the game regarding the flavor thing. He was pretty bold in what he was saying, and as scum I think it put him at risk of being caught should the setup been different from what it is. Lastly, I agreed with him in regard to ashersky and the fact that ashersky, who tried super hard to get voltaire lynched, couldn't find any good reasons (I thought) to lynch him makes me not really worried that he's scum.

2.7: I'm gonna actually reread for this one, because despite him having nearly 200 posts I remember very little about him:

first, off-topic a bit, here's something I just stumbled upon - pregame he says this:

I am good with starting whenever, I just may not be able to be as active right out of the gate.  Next week is a relatively busy work week for me.

and then....

FIRST

clearly he must be scum, town wouldn't be this excited to get into the game. 

back to something game related.... WOAH:

I don't know Dynasty Warriors, so mass-claiming flavor names will not really help me.  However, it could be really useful to certain PR town members (Robz?) as they make decisions for night actions.  I like flavor name claiming. 

I am Zhuge Liang

Ashersky was Zhuge Liang, a Vanilla Townie

...what does this mean? is he obvscum? could two people have the same name? did I just out him as VT? is he IC?

I think I'll stop my reread there for now...

[Voltaire]

Yeah, it's better to re-read, as I am mis-remembering it myself. e did post that his flavor was Zhuge Liang right away.

[Voltaire]

because he confirmed that he is zhuge liang right away. as scum he might not post until mcmc either confirms or changes the flip, and if it turns out ash was really zhuge liang he might claim to have misread his PM, he was really --insert similarly spelled name here--

hmmm, so maybe not. if he was scum and this was his fakeclaim, I think he'd be more likely to question mcmc about this during the night, 'umm, I thought nobody else would have my fakeclaim'... and also if mcmc made the mistake it pretty much confirms that there is a zhuge liang in the game, and it has to be e otherwise someone would counterclaim.

[Voltaire]

assuming ash is really zhang fei:

let's assume that e is scum for a minute. the name zhuge liang is certainly town, right? he's in one of the two town factions that are fighting the scum together, right robz? zhuge liang is surely his mod-provided fakeclaim then, right? So there is no real zhuge liang in the game. e has his real scum flavor name. if e is scum, then mcmc flipped a flavor name that isn't in the game at all. And, if e is scum, that means he saw ash flip his mod-provided fakeclaim. Surely he would have contacted mcmc regarding this and it would have been fixed during the night, right? as town it's easy to forget your flavorname, I don't know mine off the top of my head right now. Scum who have already used the name to fakeclaim on the other hand... less so I think.

That's why I think that e most likely is really zhuge liang, and so he's likely town.

[yuma]

also can someone summarize the whole liopoil thing in regard to 2.7's flavor for me. I missed that in real time and kinda glossed over it, but it appears that some seem to think it has real implications. I would greatly appreciate a summary.

lio noticed that ash flipped with e's claimed flavor name. He requested that e answer/double-check/explain this. But before e could, we all worked out the possible options and concluded that mod error was the likeliest, and that this was most likely to mean e is town (lio agreed/said this himself).

So if he were scum, why did he point this out to create a pseudo-IC? (which is what would have happened to e since this was prior to Lekkit's claim).

Ok, thanks for explaining, I see your point and agree with it to an extent, but my concern corresponds to what I mentioned a while ago--which no one responded to:

2. up until you said you had something to claim you played it perfect, but after that.... I think you gave away too much there and perhaps allowed mafia to formulate a response about 2.7 and voltaire that would correspond to them anticipating your results. Here is my thought process.... what role would be worth claiming about with information about 2 players that we could possibly have? Not any of the protective (Doc, JK), Tracker either is a positive result or an ambiguous result like chairs had on ashersky, the killing roles have no results to give out, and our rolecop is dead and gunsmith maybe you had results... but the hider claim was so much more likely that I think you totally gave your hand away when you said you had results to claim.... because if I as town saw it, I am sure that mafia also saw it. So I think in looking back at this we should see if we can spot anyone who tried to create reads on voltaire/2.7 that anticipated a hider claim from lekkit... Thoughts?

lekkit stated he had something to claim at 1532 and lio noticed it at 1541...

So I am not saying liopoil is scummy, nor am I so sure he should be today's lynch, but I do see a narrative where someone as scum could anticipate 2.7 being given quasi-IC status and then during the reread pointing this out because it was going to happen anyways...  see what i mean?

[Voltaire]

So I am not saying liopoil is scummy, nor am I so sure he should be today's lynch, but I do see a narrative where someone as scum could anticipate 2.7 being given quasi-IC status and then during the reread pointing this out because it was going to happen anyways...  see what i mean?

Mmmmmmmmmmm...but that requires sitting on the mistake, only whipping it out when Lekkit claims. And it's not like lio started out with a conclusion (e is town! look at how right I am!) It doesn't make lio conf!town, but it takes him out of my lynch pool today, I think. Because I need to find reasons to eliminate people, and this is the best reason for taking someone out today I think.

[yuma]

So I am not saying liopoil is scummy, nor am I so sure he should be today's lynch, but I do see a narrative where someone as scum could anticipate 2.7 being given quasi-IC status and then during the reread pointing this out because it was going to happen anyways...  see what i mean?

Mmmmmmmmmmm...but that requires sitting on the mistake, only whipping it out when Lekkit claims. And it's not like lio started out with a conclusion (e is town! look at how right I am!) It doesn't make lio conf!town, but it takes him out of my lynch pool today, I think. Because I need to find reasons to eliminate people, and this is the best reason for taking someone out today I think.

I agree with you there, that he probably isn't the lynch for today--barring something egregious--but what do you think of the concept liopoil aside? That mafia was likely aware of what was coming from lekkit?

[Voltaire]

I agree with you there, that he probably isn't the lynch for today--barring something egregious--but what do you think of the concept liopoil aside? That mafia was likely aware of what was coming from lekkit?

Yeah, probably. I do agree with that. What conclusions do you draw from it? Who looks good, who looks bad?

[yuma]

I agree with you there, that he probably isn't the lynch for today--barring something egregious--but what do you think of the concept liopoil aside? That mafia was likely aware of what was coming from lekkit?

Yeah, probably. I do agree with that. What conclusions do you draw from it? Who looks good, who looks bad?

I haven't had a chance to look (I will later if you think it is worthwhile), more bouncing the idea of you if it is something you think is worth looking at... My time is limited and I don't want to use it on info that you and others won't find pertinent...

[Voltaire]

I think (if you're town) your reads are invaluable and you should form them on your own from whatever information you find relevant.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 3.3

teproc (1): mail-mi
Robz888 (2) Liopoil, voltaire


Not Voting (6): teproc, Robz, Lekkit, 2.71828, Ichimaru Gin, yuma

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: Thursday, January 15th at 8 pm

[Voltaire]

Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.

This is a horrible line of thinking.

I'm re-reading lio, and he's pretty scummy. Crap.

[2.71828.....]

ok. quick post as I take a short break from my other activities.

I was really disappointed with the mod error, as it does create a pretty strong case (along with the Lekkit result) that I am town. 

All that aside, here is the last reads post I had:

Current reads:
Would lynch: Robz, Ichimaru, Ashersky
Would lynch on the 2nd before deadline: Chairs, liopoil
Would take some persuading, but might vote for them: mail-mi, Teproc, Lekkit
Not interested in lynching today: Yuma, Voltaire

So I was pretty wrong there.  But I don't think all the way wrong

Here are my new reads:

Town: Lekkit, 2.7, Voltaire - Totally believe the claim
mild town: Yuma
mild scum: Robz, Teproc
Stronger scum: Ichimaru, liopoil, mail-mi

I dont have much more right now, and I have only really skimmed the last page or so of posts, but this is where my gut is right now. 

[2.71828.....]

I was really disappointed with the mod error, as it does create a pretty strong case (along with the Lekkit result) that I am town. 

Don't get me wrong, it helps us as town and we needed the help, but I enjoy fighting cases and the back and forth debate.  It is one of the things I enjoy about mafia. 

[Voltaire]

Can you give reasons for your scum reads?

[liopoil]

checking in, will be back with more tomorrow. I see there's been a fair bit of discussion about me, is there anything specific you would like me to address now?

[Voltaire]

checking in, will be back with more tomorrow. I see there's been a fair bit of discussion about me, is there anything specific you would like me to address now?

I think scum is trying to prevent you becoming a collective town read.

[Teproc]

So you think yuma is scum ? Or is someone else doing it ?

I guess you'll say I am ? liopoil is a town read for me (and out of my lynch pool for today), I'm just not as convinced as you that the 2.7 thing is that indicative of his alignment.

[Voltaire]

lio has helped give out town reads (narrow lynch pool). You have helped keep the lynch pool open (widened lynch pool).

[Voltaire]

@Robz : Just joking, I saw liopoil and Voltaire saying that I was unlikely to be scum because of the way the wagons broke down so I figured I'd comment on it.

Yep, I'm asking them to clarify.

Look at the final vote count of yesterday. Assuming we believe lekkit, all of the ash wagon is conf!town except us two. Everyone else except Teproc is voting for Teproc. That means, from my perspective at least, that at least one of his buddies was bussing him yesterday if he is scum, two buddies if you are town as well.

Robz, have you answered/addressed this?

[Teproc]

lio has helped give out town reads (narrow lynch pool). You have helped keep the lynch pool open (widened lynch pool).

How so ? I've given town reads on lio and Robz.

Maybe you're referring to my resistance to making 2.7 an IC out of the whole Zhuge Liang flip thing, although you guys eventually convinced me on that point (which didn't end up mattering since Lekkit claimed), but otherwise that is an unfair assessment of my play.

[Voltaire]

lio has helped give out town reads (narrow lynch pool). You have helped keep the lynch pool open (widened lynch pool).

How so ? I've given town reads on lio and Robz.

Maybe you're referring to my resistance to making 2.7 an IC out of the whole Zhuge Liang flip thing, although you guys eventually convinced me on that point (which didn't end up mattering since Lekkit claimed), but otherwise that is an unfair assessment of my play.

I'm not just looking at today.

[Voltaire]

I would like everyone to state if they're cool with lynching Robz.

[liopoil]

I would like everyone to state if they're cool with lynching Robz.

very cool