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[Teproc]

I haven't posted since the 23rd ? Dear God. I've actually been caught up, it's just that I have mostly been reading on my phone and I hate phone posting. Also, I'm not super interested in the ash conversation. He's being annoying with his insistence that he was right even though he was obviously wrong, but I didn't think his insane certainty was scummy then, and I still don't think it's scummy now.

[ashersky]

I haven't posted since the 23rd ? Dear God. I've actually been caught up, it's just that I have mostly been reading on my phone and I hate phone posting. Also, I'm not super interested in the ash conversation. He's being annoying with his insistence that he was right even though he was obviously wrong, but I didn't think his insane certainty was scummy then, and I still don't think it's scummy now.

This man gets it.

[chairs]

I've also been reading, but I don't really have anything to say.

[Lekkit]

I've been pretty busy with work, not sleeping and doing other stuff (mostly Hearthstone) during what little spare time I've had. I have read everything, though, but not really processed it. I'm doing a gaming marathon today/tomorrow and won't be spending much time here, but I hope I can get going on monday.

[liopoil]

I made a post in the V/LA thread, yuma, look harder. I'm V/LA until tuesday, but I am able to check in once a day for a short while. last couple days I've read the  two posts that were made or something like that, seen that there's nothing important happening, and gone to take my turns in non-mafia games so that they can continue. robz, I find it interesting that you are asking what the case on me is when you advocated my lynch yesterday!

[yuma]

I made a post in the V/LA thread, yuma, look harder.

Sorry that I missed it. And like I said, I wasn't trying to point fingers or anything, just see if we could get a jump start on the game as it died off because everyone was more or less VLA and getting prods on players who hadn't posted seemed like a good way to do that.

[Robz888]

I made a post in the V/LA thread, yuma, look harder. I'm V/LA until tuesday, but I am able to check in once a day for a short while. last couple days I've read the  two posts that were made or something like that, seen that there's nothing important happening, and gone to take my turns in non-mafia games so that they can continue. robz, I find it interesting that you are asking what the case on me is when you advocated my lynch yesterday!

Yeah I've really just forgotten every detail of this game, other than the ash and Faust stuff.

[mail-mi]

The 23rd? Wow, I should post now. Im in the same boat as teproc with my caught up-ness.

Wel anyway.... Lynch order:

E>>>>>>>liopoil>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ash.

this is just normal ash.

[Robz888]

This mounting consensus that "this is normal town!ash" is just making me more certain he is scum and buddies are covering for him.

[Teproc]

Seeing scumteams already Robz ? That would be a lot of partners for ash. I still don't underqtand how this behavior would be particularly scummy.

Everyone buys the partner excuse for Ichimaru (the idea that his parrner would have warned him not to be so scumny) ? I could see a partner encouraging him to continue to act this way, fully expecting us to raise this very argument.

In fact, no one seems to care about the chairs situation, so vote: Ichimaru

[Robz888]

^Like, exactly like this. Deny, misdirect to obvious mislynch candidate.

[Robz888]

Oh! Chairs tho. I do kind of want to talk about tht more and not so easily let it go.

[yuma]

This is really messy, so sorry for that, but i need to get to baby and will try to consolidate later into a more concise post... so feel free to read but look forward to a better written post down the road.

Vote count yuma.?
2.7... (2): mail-mi, chairs
ashersky (2): Robz, Voltaire
chairs (1): 2.7...
Ichimaru Gin (2): Lekkit, Teproc
voltaire (1): ashersky
liopoil (1): yuma

Not Voting (2): liopoil, Ichimaru Gin

Ok... in the light of trying to get back on track here I think a case needs to be represented for everyone that has been voted for (i.e. someone on a wagon explain the case and why you think that points to so and so being scum)

I'll start:

So I think the whole of yesterday was completely and totally distracted by faust, unfortunately... While I do think there is something to glean from looking at the interactions there it is difficult to get stuff out of it... because it was such a bizarre situation of faust hijacking the game (this is the correct usage of the word "hijacking the game" eh 2.7?) and I think most players would react to faust the same way as scum or town... there may be exceptions to this and should be explored, but for now I am thinking lets go back and restart...

This is the vote count before faust claims vengeful:

2.7... (3): Teproc, yuma, liopoil
mail-mi (2): Voltaire, faust
Eevee (1): Robz888
liopoil (4): Eevee, chairs, Ichimaru Gin, mail-mi
chairs (1): 2.7....
faust (2): ashersky, Lekkit

from here things just to move completely toward faust and really the conversation is almost completely on him from then on out right or wrong... Now this isn't enough to just auto-lynch liopoil and isn't what I am suggesting (nor should we ignore everything that happens after this point). No. But I do think we should use this as a starting off point because yesterday was just so weird...

so the main initial votes on liopoil were for lurking... a good reason to vote day1 I think. He responded and then after the faust claim he only received two votes... compare this to 2.7 and eevee who both received a lot more attention after the faust claim I think... well let me back that up cause I am not sure if that is right as this is just off memory:

So we have the faust claim: from there here are the votes:

2.7 votes faust
liopoil votes faust
yuma votes eevee
ichimaru votes faust
mail-mi votes liopoil
robz votes 2.7
mail-mi votes 2.7
faust votes 2.7
yuma votes faust
2.7 votes eevee
faust votes ash
faust votes 2.7robz votes faust
2.7 votes eevee
votlaire votes eevee
faust votes faust (LAME!)
faust votes eeveeteproc votes eevee
Robz votes 2.7
voltaire votes mail-mi
teproc votes mail-mi
voltaire votes eevee
eevee votes faust
teproc votes eevee
mail-mi votes eevee[/b
mail-mi votes faust (hammer)

So yeah... liopoil received very few votes after faust's claim compared to the other lynch options of 2.7 and eevee specifically... Why is this significant? Well because I think at this juncture it is odd that liopoil wasn't brought up again as a wagon? Why? Well I think one possibility is that if he is scum, scum partners didn't want to make him be the alternative to faust (who did look like he was being lynched, but wasn't ever a for sure thing) and instead offered up eevee and 2.7.

Here are some points that I brought up in regard to liopoil responding aggressively to suspicion as town and keeps his cool as scum (and I think he kept his cool here). I stand by it although liopoil has brought up the point that he only responds aggressively when the points are stupid... which I don't know... anytime I am town I think all points brought up against me are stupid, because they are...

I don't really have a lot to add from liopoil day2. His argument with ash was what it was... he did push the 2.7 thing in regard to eevee being killed. I am almost always a little skeptical of those sort of arguments and tend to think they come from scum, but that isn't a big deal... other than that he is now VLA (as I previously didn't see, but will now acknowledge) and hasn't added much.

This is really messy, so sorry for that, but i need to get to baby and will try to consolidate later into a more concise post...

[ashersky]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

[mail-mi]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?

[yuma]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?

I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....

I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.

Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.

[ashersky]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?

I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....

I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.

Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.

That's unfair, Yuma.  You know I am one of the staunchest defenders of separation of game and IRL.

I believe the statement, that you had pressing family needs.  I'd rather you had just saved your text someone and handled it, as baby is more important.

But, you posted, in the game thread (as opposed to VLA, for example), so I am obliged to study it.  And the copy/paste stuck out as a possible scum tell for you.  So I noted it.

[yuma]

Ok more concise post:

1. liopoil was the largest wagon at the time that faust claimed and the thread turned into chaos
2. after that point he received very few votes compared to others who were in that category of possibly being lynched (specifically sure 2.7, eevee and mail-mi)
3. the main points against liopoil from day1 are lurking and responding passively to suspicion (I maintain that liopoil responds more aggressively as scum) and that it is compelling that his lynch was not brought up as a possibility against him after faust claimed
4. points I would add are his case against 2.7 today (I tend to find arguments that so and so talked about why the NK died to be from scum, but this isn't always true. I did it as town in GoT against Voltaire when we were both town for example), general lurky behavior today (and I don't just mean during his VLA, rather that he has posted but really only participated in a dialogue with ashersky and hasn't done much else)

Last point in case others missed it above, I think every wagon that currently exists needs to have the case re-presented by someone voting for that wagon so that we can regroup and figure out where we stand in this game. I think this needs to happen sometime between now and New Years Eve because there is going to be another mini-break that day as well and if we wait that long we are going to get bogged down in a slog, as if we aren't already....

[yuma]

That's unfair, Yuma.  You know I am one of the staunchest defenders of separation of game and IRL.

I believe the statement, that you had pressing family needs.  I'd rather you had just saved your text someone and handled it, as baby is more important.

But, you posted, in the game thread (as opposed to VLA, for example), so I am obliged to study it.  And the copy/paste stuck out as a possible scum tell for you.  So I noted it.

I had no problem with your post or analysis (which was correct, I did copy the last bit and pasted it above for clarification)... mail-mi was the one implying directly that my doing so was scummy and the one I took issue with and hence why I responded to him and not you.

Saving the text somewhere that I wouldn't lose would have taken far longer than copy and pasting a quick note at the top of the post so that is why I did what I did.

I don't use computer sticky notes or word pages when I write up posts like many players do, I just use the thread posts so the best place for me to save something is to just post it, but since that was kinda an ugly rough draft I thought it appropriate to clarify that a cleaner, easier to read version would be on its way before I posted at the top of the page...

[mail-mi]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?

I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....

I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.

Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.

See: ashs post.

[yuma]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?

I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....

I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.

Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.

See: ashs post.

No. Answer my question. Is being considerate to others scummy? I asked you. I didn't ask ash.

[mail-mi]

The thing that stuck out to me a lot from yuma's big post was that his first and last lines are exactly the same.  I'd guess he copy and pasted it.

Was it mean girls that yuma said he only copy&pasted as scum?

I have no idea if I said that or not and don't see why it is relevant here....

I copied the last statement above and put it at the top so that people wouldn't have to read through the slog before getting to the bottom and realizing I would be writing up a more concise post later... cause that would be annoying.

Are you asking if being considerate to others is scummy? Cause the answer I hope would be no.

See: ashs post.

No. Answer my question. Is being considerate to others scummy? I asked you. I didn't ask ash.

No, it isnt. Ash pointed something out, which triggered a memory of what you said once. Why are you taking this so far?

[yuma]

No, it isnt. Ash pointed something out, which triggered a memory of what you said once. Why are you taking this so far?

I'm not taking it far. I just wanted you to answer my question. because the moment that you type something like "yuma once said something similar as scum" paints me as scum and that is always something that I am going to respond to and press to get an answer as to why.

So my next question is that if it isn't scummy then why did you even bring it up? If my doing it here isn't scummy then why intentionally connect dots to something that I may have done before as scum?

[yuma]

but mail-mi what I would really like from you is a summary of why you are voting 2.7

[Ichimaru Gin]

Everyone buys the partner excuse for Ichimaru (the idea that his partner would have warned him not to be so scumny) ? I could see a partner encouraging him to continue to act this way, fully expecting us to raise this very argument.

In fact, no one seems to care about the chairs situation, so vote: Ichimaru

This sounds like WIFOM to me. I mean, either way, there's a scum/town argument for me if that's the way you want to spin it. Also, the whole "since this other lynch isn't going through (although I think you're giving up too soon) , I'm just gonna vote x without much reason" doesn't sound right to me. I'd like to hear more than 1 sentence explaining your vote.

It's unfortunate that it seems that this day is turning out somewhat uneventful as well. Faust may have done some strange stuff D1, but it certainly made things a lot more exciting.
I think it's a good idea to try to get a lynch before New Year's Eve. I'll be back tomorrow--after going over a lot of old posts  to refresh my memory on reads and such.