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[liopoil]

vote: 2.7

also, suspicious because no longer self-voting, even though he said:

I'd rather you lynch me than not.

scum!ashersky just realized that he's getting lynched, and the self-voting isn't helping, so he's diverting to e.

[ashersky]

vote: ashersky

[ashersky]

I'd look at the jumping bean that is liopoil, who's not sure of anything ever in his life, but also is happy to switch his vote once his possible partner hits L-1.

[yuma]

vote: ashersky

vote: ashersky

i am sorry you are annoyed and I see some of your points. But the moment you self vote it all becomes meaningless. This is especially frustrating given the conversation we had day1 along the same lines.

[liopoil]

yuma, that's L-1

Unvote

[yuma]

Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...

Um, okay then?  I don't know what to say to that.  You've never been sure 100% sure that your parents are really your parents, or that any number multiplied by zero is zero (I'm assuming there's a math edgecase to this...), or that you and that high school girlfriend were going to be together forever?

I think both of you are approaching the word "certain" from different perspectives. liopoil's is obviously from a more math centric viewpoint, ash from a more... what is the word...? humanist? (not quite the word, but you get the point) that you guys have different backgrounds and ways of looking at things based off your own experiences so don't expect the other to interpret the same word the same way....

I for one know that when ash says "100% certain" he isn't actually "100% certain" from a mathematical point of view. If he was, he would have told us via a result, which wasn't possible at that point in the game so obviously he was more "100 certain that he was convinced"

[yuma]

yuma, that's L-1

Unvote

and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.

[yuma]

yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.

I think you should follow your cold heart and vote.  You think your parents might be aliens.  That's harsh.

This is certainly going to end up as a quote in the Guess the Mafia Poster game some day... speaking of which nobody has guessed my clue there yet. It has been up for a long while... maybe I should just give it away?

[liopoil]

Nope, I've never been 100% certain about anything really...

Um, okay then?  I don't know what to say to that.  You've never been sure 100% sure that your parents are really your parents, or that any number multiplied by zero is zero (I'm assuming there's a math edgecase to this...), or that you and that high school girlfriend were going to be together forever?

I think both of you are approaching the word "certain" from different perspectives. liopoil's is obviously from a more math centric viewpoint, ash from a more... what is the word...? humanist? (not quite the word, but you get the point) that you guys have different backgrounds and ways of looking at things based off your own experiences so don't expect the other to interpret the same word the same way....

I for one know that when ash says "100% certain" he isn't actually "100% certain" from a mathematical point of view. If he was, he would have told us via a result, which wasn't possible at that point in the game so obviously he was more "100 certain that he was convinced"

fair enough. I mean, for all that it really matters I'm 100% certain my parents aren't aliens. If I were to put an actual percentage to it, it would have a lot of 9s on it. rounding up doesn't change much.

but was ashersky's percentage close enough to 100 that rounding up doesn't matter? if faust flipping town as surprising as my parents turning out to be aliens? no, I hope not.

[liopoil]

yuma, that's L-1

Unvote

and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.

because I for one am not ready for the day to end.

[2.71828.....]

All right.  I am not ready to lynch anyone yet.  Let alone myself.

Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.

For now, I'm going to vote: e. He seemed overaware of Eevee's death. And indirectly "taking responsibility" for it just feels scummy to me as well.

Let me ask a question:  why is it a bad thing to try to figure out why scum would kill who they did during the night?  I think it is very beneficial to town to consider these things.  I am glad that you are doing the same.  Oh wait.  You aren't.  You would much prefer to get a quick lynch in before anyone can say anything about it.  Before anyone can say anything about it.  Chairs is still alive in this game, right?

PPE: 2

[yuma]

yuma, that's L-1

Unvote

and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.

because I for one am not ready for the day to end.

Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.

[Voltaire]

yuma, that's L-1

Unvote

and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.

This. Just lynch ash already.

[Voltaire]

Hate the e lynch right now.

[liopoil]

yuma, that's L-1

Unvote

and your point is? why did you remove your vote? If ash is concerned about getting lynched, let him remove his vote.

because I for one am not ready for the day to end.

Sure... neither am I. Lekkit and teproc have yet to post I think... but ashersky should be the one to unvote, not you. You unvoting removes the pressure for him to unvote and start using his vote in a constructive manner.

why should I want him to unvote? his self-voting is good for us if he's scum, which I think he is.

[2.71828.....]

People who are behaving in an anti-town way right now:
Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town.  Please enlighten me.
Chairs - He has not been around this game since he came out anti-claim in such a way that led a few of us to believe that he is scum or town PR.

Now, just because they are acting in an anti-town way does not mean that they are scum.  I think both Faust and Eevee behaved in anti-town ways D1 (eevee not giving any reads and Faust with his fake claim), and neither were scum.

Right now I will pressure vote: chairs to get more involved.  He has been sitting in the anonymity of being a "scum or PR" long enough and there is no reason for him to remain there (in anonymity).  We need him to contribute.  Especially if he is the PR that he was supposed to be.

[ashersky]

Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town.  Please enlighten me.

It's not pro-town.  It's anti-town.  Yuma (and anyone else opposing my self-vote) is correct there.

[liopoil]

And you're intentionally being anti-town because....?

[ashersky]

And you're intentionally being anti-town because....?

As stated, I'm annoyed.

Also, it caught you out.  You took the opportune excuse to jump ship on 2.7.  That was just super scummy.

Why, you ask?  Because you didn't vote me for self-voting.  You didn't vote me for other crap.  You took the "huh, ash was self-voting but now just put someone at L-1 instead and man that's so easy!" route and jumped off of 2.7 to me.

That's scummy, dude.

Mislynching town is anti-town.  Hands down.  No arguments there.  So, lynching me is anti-town.  No one knows I'm town but me, so I'm the only one actively doing something anti-town on purpose by voting for me.  Yuma thinks I'm town, even if he won't admit it.  So do you, lio.  But the way you are voting me washes away the protoplasm you are using to mask your alien identity and is showing you to be the scum of DW2 that you are.

[2.71828.....]

Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town.  Please enlighten me.

It's not pro-town.  It's anti-town.  Yuma (and anyone else opposing my self-vote) is correct there.

Glad you cleared that up.  I was pretty sure it was anti-town.  My question: why the vote then?  Are you town fed up with being suspected or are you scum resigning yourself to a certain fate?  I know limiting you to two different possibilities is bold because you are known to do just about anything.

I, for one, thought you were town all of D1.  I, for one, do not want to lynch anti-town behavior, I want to lynch scum.  I am not entirely convinced you are scum.  However, I will policy vote for you tomorrow after Lekkit and teproc have had a chance to post if you are still voting yourself. 

PPE:2

[Ichimaru Gin]

All right.  I am not ready to lynch anyone yet.  Let alone myself.

Plus, E has too many reasons explaining why scum killed eevee, clearly has been thinking about who scum should kill a lot.

For now, I'm going to vote: e. He seemed overaware of Eevee's death. And indirectly "taking responsibility" for it just feels scummy to me as well.

Let me ask a question:  why is it a bad thing to try to figure out why scum would kill who they did during the night?  I think it is very beneficial to town to consider these things.  I am glad that you are doing the same.  Oh wait.  You aren't.  You would much prefer to get a quick lynch in before anyone can say anything about it.  Before anyone can say anything about it.  Chairs is still alive in this game, right?

PPE: 2

If I really wanted a quick lynch, I would have voted Ash--but I'm not, because I don't feel good about that lynch right now. From what I know of Ash, him being way overconfident is not anything new. And, in this instance, I don't think you somehow acting responsible for Eevee's death is good for town in any way. Because if you are town, it doesn't really accomplish anything. I do appreciate that you are contributing though. That's more than a lot of people are doing.

For now unvote. There's still a lot I need to review, and the super-quick ramp up on Ash frankly makes me nervous. It's in scum's best interest to get a quick lynch so town gets no information.

[Ichimaru Gin]

PPE: 4

[ashersky]

Ashersky - I do not see how voting yourself is pro-town.  Please enlighten me.

It's not pro-town.  It's anti-town.  Yuma (and anyone else opposing my self-vote) is correct there.

Glad you cleared that up.  I was pretty sure it was anti-town.  My question: why the vote then?  Are you town fed up with being suspected or are you scum resigning yourself to a certain fate?  I know limiting you to two different possibilities is bold because you are known to do just about anything.

I, for one, thought you were town all of D1.  I, for one, do not want to lynch anti-town behavior, I want to lynch scum.  I am not entirely convinced you are scum.  However, I will policy vote for you tomorrow after Lekkit and teproc have had a chance to post if you are still voting yourself. 

PPE:2

I like your thinking, homes.  As for two options for my own voting, those are two good ones.

But, I'd point out that you've all seen the "scum!ash resigned to losing because it's hopeless" ash before.  Does this seem like that?

The honest answer is I'm just tired.  Tired of being misread so many times.  Part of it comes from having just been scum like 80 times in the last 79 games.  So now, fair or not, I'm going to be suspected more than "normal" in current games, until I have a streak of town flips again.  So maybe hastening the town flip isn't so bad for me personally, even if it isn't the greatest option for town.

The problem now, though, is if I unvote, it's scummy because "hey ash doesn't want to die he's scum!" is sure to be tossed out by someone.  So it's a catch-22.  Sure, it's partly my own doing, from 30-some games of creating my own meta.  Still exists, though, and there's little to be done.

If you think I'm the scummiest, vote me.  Lynch me.  If you don't, then vote where you think the scum are.

[liopoil]

yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.

ash, I know you saw this post, you even responded to it. Don't claim I only decided to do it because you moved your self-vote, that's just not true. This post is while you are self-voting, and e is still at L-3 or something like that.

[ashersky]

yeah, usually when ashersky does the crazy town!ash thing I get the sense that it's crazy town!ash doing it. Not this time. And robz I think also reads ashersky well, especially when ash is town. I'm ready to vote for ashersky, but it's early in the day, I don't even want to put him at L-2. I don't think everyone has even posted yet, we might have a guilty result on someone or the like.

ash, I know you saw this post, you even responded to it. Don't claim I only decided to do it because you moved your self-vote, that's just not true. This post is while you are self-voting, and e is still at L-3 or something like that.

You said that, but didn't vote.  You voted because of my vote on 2.7, after having voted myself.  That's my point, which you are proving.  You didn't vote me for my self-vote, you used my switch to 2.7 as a reason to vote me right after you said you didn't want to.