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[Teproc]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I believe in a town narrative for what faust did here. If he is town, I don't see how he could expect to get anything out of his fakeclaim, because there was no way ash would just back down in the face of a vengeful claim. Someone else maybe, but not ash.

As scum, it's still a very weird play, but it makes some amount of sense. Vengeful is one of the safest fakeclaims there is for scum, especially if he specifically targets someone (because people like me will be scared of hitting two town), but it wasn't working out for him so he backed out of it when it looked like he was kind of the only viable lynch left.

I might hammer soon. I'm thinking about it still. I'll do a quick faust reread right now.

[Robz888]

Unvote I guess to get some answers since he shere.

[Teproc]

Voltaire, faust didn't check back about the Roleblocker. Ash talked about Roleblocking, faust said there was no Town Roleblocker in the setup. I said it was a shame there was no Mafia Roleblocker either, because that could have been a scumslip by ash otherwise, and faust responded that there kind of was a Mafia Roleblocker : the JOAT who has a 1-shot Roleblocking.

[Voltaire]

The Case on mail-mi, or Why We Really Should Lynch Him D1 This Time

unvote for sure. Chairs is 99% town I am thinking.

vote: Voltaire too many town reads so early in the game.

Since when is this scummy/a reason to vote someone?

vote: Voltaire rage vote. I hate hate hate "secret cases" even if they're "secret town slips." Remember the last time someone did this ? Yeah, they were scum.

Since when does mail-mi rage vote?

Oh scum totally tries gutsy plans. All the time.

*squints* Really? D1? Really? Cite examples.

The one that you brought up: Ash&co. in RMM9 (Jimmmm's game) being all on or all off.

That's completely different from a plan to misunderstand the setup D1. That's what we're talking about. Early D1 individual plans.

Okay, I can't think of any specific examples. But i am not going to discredit scum being gutsy on D1. It is very possible.

Statement with no evidence.

He then does his sheeping, of not lynching chairs, of giving yuma a D1 pass, of plan-less ash, of the case on faust, of the case on lio.

He then has the post where he states I have a bias against him (admittedly true) and claims that town will lose if we lynch him, statistically. I'll let yuma take it from here:

and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...

After being called out, mail-mi claims he was only semi-serious! This is the second time he has done this, after claiming his first vote on me (way back at the top of this post) was semi-serious.

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

Before I've read anything else

I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)

I would like everyone to read this: YES.

I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)

I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.

and I think bringing up the metastat of mail-mi not being alive at the end of the game is scummy... I don't think these games offer a large enough sampling size nor a reliable enough set of variables to draw any conclusions from in this area... unless you are trying to manipulate people into thinking a certain set of conclusions...

Bolded that for you.

Then he votes chairs anyway, despite his previous sheeping of the "chairs is probably a PR". 

So, I think mail-mi is committing the scum tell of "oh crap, that thing I did was scummy - I was just kidding!" in addition to the fact that he has a general anti-town meta. This lets him live for a very long time, because players (like me in the past) keep saying "lynch mafia not scum" and he gets to skate by. mail-mi has also resorted to irrelevant-to-the-game defenses (like the stats).

The following players have voted mail-mi, stated a willingness to vote mail-mi, or have had him in their most recent lynch pool:

Voltaire, chairs, faust, Robz, (yuma?), e, (lio?)

That's seven, and I probably missed some people/some people would vote him to cause a lynch.

PPE: A lot posted while I was writing this.

[faust]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?

Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.

Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.

[Voltaire]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?

Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.

Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.

Wouldn't you rather we lynch ash tomorrow for you?

[Lekkit]

Still very happy with my vote. I don't see town playing kike faust has. It's super crazy and I think it's something scum would do to hopefulky get out of a lynch.

[Voltaire]

Voltaire, faust didn't check back about the Roleblocker. Ash talked about Roleblocking, faust said there was no Town Roleblocker in the setup. I said it was a shame there was no Mafia Roleblocker either, because that could have been a scumslip by ash otherwise, and faust responded that there kind of was a Mafia Roleblocker : the JOAT who has a 1-shot Roleblocking.

Point. Thanks for catching that. I wasn't doing a full re-read, just of faust's posts.

[Teproc]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?

Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.

Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.

Are you claiming VT right now ?

[Voltaire]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?

Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.

Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.

Wait, you're claiming VT?

[2.71828.....]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?

Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.

Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.

say what?  not the worst mislynch?  I know if you voted me I would certifiably be the worst mislynch, because I am town, and any town mislynch is certifiably the worst mislynch. 

given up the fight already?

[2.71828.....]

Ok, my previous statement is a little strong.  It is true that lynching town PRs is "worse" than VTs, but not to such an extent that anyone should offer themselves up as a mislynch.

First Ash is a good mislynch.

Now Faust himself is a good mislynch.

[Voltaire]

faust, please answer either this:

Wouldn't you rather we lynch ash tomorrow for you?

or this:

Are you claiming VT right now ?

immediately.

[Robz888]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?

Yes. Well, I am not the worst mislynch. The stage we were at, we could have easily lynched a town PR accidentally, I didn't want that to happen. Which is why I'd still like an ash lynch.

Give me some more time, I'm working on an updated reads list.

No, screw your updated reads list, it's irrelevant now. We're talking about you, man.

[2.71828.....]

I'll give you some percentages if you want:

Voltaire - 37%
Robz888 - 17%
mail-mi - 40%
Chairs - 36%
Ashersky - 42%
Yuma - 24%
Ichimaru Gin - 27%
Lekkit - 20%
Liopoil - 32%
Teproc - 22%
2.7 - 29%
Eevee - 31%
Faust - 90%

FTFY

ok.  it is updated. 

[faust]

I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.

Voltaire - a stronger town impression than I had lately. Still, I could absolutely see him as scum.
Robz888 - most likely town.
mail-mi - lurky as usual. The way he disappeared for the deadline was indeed scummy. Should be looked at again.
Chairs - town or PR. Which of those should be determined soon. Probably needs to claim at latest D3.
Ashersky - likely scum.
Yuma - not much, but he acted a little weird after my claim ("withhold judgment until he returns" - afraid to get opinions out there?) If ash is scum, I could see him as partner.
Ichimaru Gin - pretty null, leaning slightly slightly scum.
Lekkit - seems generally towny.
Liopoil - the way he lied about the setup while mafiascum was offline struck me as towny. Overall, I lean town a little.
Teproc - did not vote for me after my claim. Hard to say what that means, it really depends on ash's alignment. The rest of his play feels reasonable. Slight town read.
2.7 - I agree that he acted scummy around my claim, and I also found him scummy before that. So I lean scum.
Eevee - dangerously absent. Reminds me of GoT, and he was scum there.

PPE: 16

[Robz888]

I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.

If we lynch you, it will be solely because you lied to us without cause, disappeared, said you lied without any sort of justifiable explanation (other than your scum who wrongly thought you'd get mileage out of that), came back, didn't real satisfy anything, posted reads that don't really matter, and left again.

[Robz888]

Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?

[faust]

faust, please answer either this:

Wouldn't you rather we lynch ash tomorrow for you?

or this:

Are you claiming VT right now ?

immediately.

Why would I want to lynch ash tomorrow instead of today? I mean, sure, he'll still be a good lynch tomorrow.

I'm not claiming anything.

[faust]

Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?

Sorry if you feel like I wasted your time.

[Voltaire]

Blurrrrrrrrrgh. Town read on faust lessened, but still a town read.

Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?

If he's town, you know how people reacted will be really, really good evidence once he flips. Same for if he's scum, really.

[Robz888]

Blurrrrrrrrrgh. Town read on faust lessened, but still a town read.

Faust, for one thing, I put a lot of thought into deciding whether your claim was true. Lotta ink was spilled over that. Now you say I did that for nothing, just so you could draw what looks to me like the wrong conclusion about ash? You see how I don;t actually beleibe you would waste my time like that, and are instead scrambling scum?

If he's town, you know how people reacted will be really, really good evidence once he flips. Same for if he's scum, really.

How will it be evidence of anything? People's reactions to his weird lie will be helpful? I mean all reactions are helpful but I don't see how this one is especially helpful.

[faust]

I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.

If we lynch you, it will be solely because you lied to us without cause, disappeared, said you lied without any sort of justifiable explanation (other than your scum who wrongly thought you'd get mileage out of that), came back, didn't real satisfy anything, posted reads that don't really matter, and left again.

When I claimed, we were scrambling towards the end of the Day, unable to get a real wagon. Something had to happen. Okay, I might not have executed it best, but I think this gives a lot to analyze, which is good.

[2.71828.....]

I mean, Eevee's reactions to everything going on here will be really useful in future days.


wait.....


I am still on vote: eevee, right?

[Voltaire]

I guess I am in a little hurry now, I will post some updated reads for D2 in case you lynch me.

If we lynch you, it will be solely because you lied to us without cause, disappeared, said you lied without any sort of justifiable explanation (other than your scum who wrongly thought you'd get mileage out of that), came back, didn't real satisfy anything, posted reads that don't really matter, and left again.

When I claimed, we were scrambling towards the end of the Day, unable to get a real wagon. Something had to happen. Okay, I might not have executed it best, but I think this gives a lot to analyze, which is good.

See, the issue is that I agree with your statement, but your claim made it seem like you were afraid of being lynched, not that you wanted to focus the day. Do you see what I'm saying?