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[Teproc]

What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?

[faust]

What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?

Well, I was hoping that he would get afraid to be lynched and back off. That would have been a sure scumtell. But I guess ashersky's too clever for that. Still, I had the feeling that his case against me after my claim was so over the top, as if he didn't really try to convince people.

Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.

[Ichimaru Gin]

It is probably the time to call this off.

I am not Vengeful. I claimed to be to get reactions.

This is why I fixed my kill on ashersky. I wanted to see how he reacted. And I don't find his reaction particularly towny. What is more, the whole discussion about whether or not to kill me will be much more insightful once we know ashersky's alignment. If he's town, look for scum on my wagon. If he's scum, look for the other scum among people defending me (yes, it's not always that easy, but I think a good baseline).

Vote: ashersky

Ok. Just woke up, been reading over everything that I missed.
Question. I have a pretty strong town-read on Ash myself. So in my mind at least, voting for someone threatening to kill town is actually a town-read. Also, I find it hard to believe that anyone could not find Faust's behavior scummy, meaning this entire gambit was how useful? Which of your statements do we choose to believe. Maybe this is just a ploy because you were betting on the fact that your claim wouldn't actually get you lynched. So you are now trying to pass it off as a plan to help town. I don't buy it.

[Teproc]

Because... his case against you wasn't over the top before you claimed ?

[2.71828.....]

What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?

Well, I was hoping that he would get afraid to be lynched and back off. That would have been a sure scumtell. But I guess ashersky's too clever for that. Still, I had the feeling that his case against me after my claim was so over the top, as if he didn't really try to convince people.

Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.

that really feels like confirmation bias to me.  You are looking for reasons to find Ash scummy, so you found them. 

PPE: As Teproc said, his case against you was already so strongly stated that there is really nothing you could expect to hear from him except to go all out and call you scum

[Voltaire]

Well, in fact, vote: e. mail-mi isn't super-scummy, and has announced that he will be gone till the deadline, so it would be bad to lynch him.

It would also be great play by mafia to get us to think this.

(I'm catching up on the thread now, replying as I see 'em)

[faust]

What in ash's reactions makes you say he's not townie ? What were you expecting to get from him that would justify fakeclaiming as town ?

Well, I was hoping that he would get afraid to be lynched and back off. That would have been a sure scumtell. But I guess ashersky's too clever for that. Still, I had the feeling that his case against me after my claim was so over the top, as if he didn't really try to convince people.

Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.

that really feels like confirmation bias to me.  You are looking for reasons to find Ash scummy, so you found them. 

PPE: As Teproc said, his case against you was already so strongly stated that there is really nothing you could expect to hear from him except to go all out and call you scum

Well, possible. But he made reasonable arguments before, not just "oh, faust is scum cause he claimed a role not in the game". But feel free to have a different opinion, that's why I told you this, so you can make your own judgment.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 1.14

怪客

2.7... (2): Robz, mail-mi
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Eevee (1):  2.7...
liopoil (2): Eevee, chairs
faust (5): ashersky, Lekkit, liopoil, Ichimaru Gin, yuma
ashersky (1): faust

Not Voting (1): Teproc

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:20 p.m. Forum time.

[Voltaire]

Oh. Oh. Oh.

Also, people need to realise that this game isn't as easy as "fakeclaiming as town=bad". In most cases, yes, it is, but there are situations where it's not, and I think this was one of them.

First, I agree with this. But I'm not sure if I see it here. I need to re-read.

This has certainly shifted the focus of discussion away from tons of other people back to the "original", less-interesting in my mind people of the day. Not sure I like that.

[faust]

It is probably the time to call this off.

I am not Vengeful. I claimed to be to get reactions.

This is why I fixed my kill on ashersky. I wanted to see how he reacted. And I don't find his reaction particularly towny. What is more, the whole discussion about whether or not to kill me will be much more insightful once we know ashersky's alignment. If he's town, look for scum on my wagon. If he's scum, look for the other scum among people defending me (yes, it's not always that easy, but I think a good baseline).

Vote: ashersky

Ok. Just woke up, been reading over everything that I missed.
Question. I have a pretty strong town-read on Ash myself. So in my mind at least, voting for someone threatening to kill town is actually a town-read. Also, I find it hard to believe that anyone could not find Faust's behavior scummy, meaning this entire gambit was how useful? Which of your statements do we choose to believe. Maybe this is just a ploy because you were betting on the fact that your claim wouldn't actually get you lynched. So you are now trying to pass it off as a plan to help town. I don't buy it.

Well, lynch me if you need to. I understand if you do. Just remember what I said afterwards.

[Voltaire]

What I'm seeing on a re-read is confirmation bias from both faust and ash about each other, but none of the usual signs that let one go "oh, this is town v town."

[Voltaire]

faust, are you really Lu Meng?

[faust]

faust, are you really Lu Meng?

Yes.

[Ichimaru Gin]

So you're saying the flavor name you claimed was real, but you aren't in fact vengeful?

[faust]

So you're saying the flavor name you claimed was real, but you aren't in fact vengeful?

Yes.

[Voltaire]

Ok...I think faust is town.

Reasons:

1. Scum doesn't write "he's an ok mislynch" in-thread
2. faust has been sorting out optimal PR play (which is what he does regardless of role as town) [though I don't know if he did this in M31 as scum, I'll have to check]
3. I can see a pro-town reason to fake-claim vengeful from faust. Not that I think it was done particularly well, but it's definitely there.
4. faust willingly replied as to when he got his PM
5. He appears to go back and check the setup to see if there's a roleblocker (after saying there isn't, he points out mafia JOAT has a 1-shot)
6. A really, really strong gut feel

I will not be lynching faust today.

I'll vote for mail-mi, ash, e, Eevee, or lio (in that order I think).

[Voltaire]

Actually, I don't think I'll be voting for ash today either.

[faust]

Actually, I don't think I'll be voting for ash today either.

Well yes, I think an ash lynch won't be happening (for some reason I thought the deadline was one more day away), so vote: e is something I can get behind.

[Robz888]

Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust
Vote: faust

[2.71828.....]

L-1

[Robz888]

Ok...I think faust is town.

Reasons:

1. Scum doesn't write "he's an ok mislynch" in-thread
2. faust has been sorting out optimal PR play (which is what he does regardless of role as town) [though I don't know if he did this in M31 as scum, I'll have to check]
3. I can see a pro-town reason to fake-claim vengeful from faust. Not that I think it was done particularly well, but it's definitely there.
4. faust willingly replied as to when he got his PM
5. He appears to go back and check the setup to see if there's a roleblocker (after saying there isn't, he points out mafia JOAT has a 1-shot)
6. A really, really strong gut feel

I will not be lynching faust today.

I'll vote for mail-mi, ash, e, Eevee, or lio (in that order I think).

Town doesn't make a claim, disappear to avoid scrutiny, then retract the claim when it gets him into trouble. Scum does that. I mean come on now.

[Robz888]

L-1

Good, fine, someone hammer please.

[2.71828.....]

I will hammer faust at the deadline if we get there.  A few more hours won't hurt anyone

[Robz888]

I will hammer faust at the deadline if we get there.  A few more hours won't hurt anyone

It will if he wiggles out of it.

[Robz888]

Ugh, I mean, faust: What did you expect to happen? You thought we would all thank you for lying about your role, on Day 1 (!), when there was no reason for you to claim at all (!!) ? Did you consider how scummy this would make you look?