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[ashersky]

ash, here's eevee's vote on me:

Here goes some very rough POE:

Players:
1. Voltaire
2. Robz888
3. mail-mi
4. Chairs
5. Ashersky
6. Yuma
7. Ichimaru Gin
8. Lekkit
9. Liopoil
10. Teproc
11. 2.7
12. Eevee
13. Faust

Players 1-7 eliminated due to activity / general controversy surrounding them (and IG for being new, I agree it's no fun to start of your mafia career by getting lynched).

I wouldn't oppose my lynch if I didn't know my alignment, I know my performance this far has been lacking. Day 1s, I just don't see much happening.

Anyways, faust/Teproc have also been involved in a way I can remember, and Lekkit gets a pass for attempting a case on Voltaire, leaving me to a Vote: liopoil Robz's observations about his play being similar to Toy Story are a nice addition to my own PoE.

I'll note that not all of the players 1-6 have been heavy contributers, and that he doesn't mention e, and doesn't explain why the things he says about faust, teproc, and lekkit are deserving of a D1 pass.

This is why POE isn't so good D1. later, it's awesome. not now.

Robz's case is lio is lurking on D1, he just did that as his scum partner in toy story, ergo he is scum.

That's a lurking case with some weak meta thrown in.  Bug you've explained the irl reason, so time to move on.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Serious ash? Why are you trying to derail really the only good wagon we've had D1?
Who do you suggest we lynch? Faust? I don't think that's about to happen right now.

now this is ridiculous. If you don't want to lynch someone, and there's a wagon on them, of course you should try to derail it. And at some point in every D1 there will be a wagon that is the only good wagon we've had. Should we always lynch the first player to get a wagon on them?

I agree. Of course everyone should do as they see best. I don't want to tell anyone what to do, just expressing *my* opinion. I think Ash is reading too much into IRL, as you yourself said

right, I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable. and again, of course I shouldn't need to be at L-2, and I'm sure I would have caught up sooner or later regardless of people voting for me. being at L-2 made it sooner, not later.

now I'm going to go way way back and comment on posts as I read back to now.

So for Ash to be "We're lynching someone for IRL" just doesn't make sense to me. But hey, it all depends on what those who are currently voting otherwise believe--and whether they agree with Ash or not. I don't think we should just randomly follow the first good wagon that gets rolling, but at the same time, I think that there are at least 2 other's out there willing to finish this off. We'll see though.

[ashersky]

vote: Ichimaru Gin.

This is a policy vote.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.

[ashersky]

I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.

You are correct.

If someone presents a new case, or re-presents an old one I missed that is unrelated to the fact that liopoil has been posting less than the norm, I would listen and understand/accept people voting for those reasons, whether I agree or not.

I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.

[Ichimaru Gin]

I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.

You are correct.

If someone presents a new case, or re-presents an old one I missed that is unrelated to the fact that liopoil has been posting less than the norm, I would listen and understand/accept people voting for those reasons, whether I agree or not.

I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.

Fair enough. And Liopoil, I know you've said some different things about this. I can understand the importance of Finals.
I guess I just question exactly how much time they take. But that's only me. It's quite possible that you're taking a huge number of units and need to be studying almost constantly in preparation. Or, I could even understand that the game is also a distraction, something going on in the back of your mind. At any rate, I don't want to be the one that kills someone just cause they were busy with school.
Ash and I , I think agree that we shouldn't lynch people for IRL and Finals are very important. However, we disagree as to the exact severity of time required. And that's fine. Please tell us if you really are completely swamped!

[liopoil]

Small town read on Teproc I think. Maybe. But a big one on Robz.

why? just because robz told us about flavor? just because teproc was anti flavor claim?

[liopoil]

I'd appreciate an explanation. If this is because you think that we're making the mistake of lynching someone for lurking when it is only caused by IRL problems that they can't control. Fine.
Otherwise, I don't really get it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason though.

You are correct.

If someone presents a new case, or re-presents an old one I missed that is unrelated to the fact that liopoil has been posting less than the norm, I would listen and understand/accept people voting for those reasons, whether I agree or not.

I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.

Fair enough. And Liopoil, I know you've said some different things about this. I can understand the importance of Finals.
I guess I just question exactly how much time they take. But that's only me. It's quite possible that you're taking a huge number of units and need to be studying almost constantly in preparation. Or, I could even understand that the game is also a distraction, something going on in the back of your mind. At any rate, I don't want to be the one that kills someone just cause they were busy with school.
Ash and I , I think agree that we shouldn't lynch people for IRL and Finals are very important. However, we disagree as to the exact severity of time required. And that's fine. Please tell us if you really are completely swamped!

I'm not swamped, or really even close to that. I don't know why ashersky is giving me a pass. I agree with not questioning IRL reasons. I also think that if someone is going to have limited access they should post this in the V/LA thread either before or after the V/LA. And that in the V/LA thread there is no lying or stretching the truth allowed. I haven't posted there because I don't think that exams are an excuse for me in this case. sometimes exams are a reason for V/LA, for sure, and I would totally excuse lurking for someone else if they needed to study for exams a ton. In this case though, it isn't a huge deal.

[Voltaire]

I firmly believe the sanctity of IRL VLA needs to be defended (by not lynching for it, but also by not lying/manipulating the excuse) to keep these games as fun and open to all as possible.

I agree with you. But here's the problem with applying this to lio:

I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.

I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable.

not asking to be lynched though!

really though, I do have time. If I didn't, I would have posted something in the V/LA thread.

PPE: lio himself.

[Voltaire]

Small town read on Teproc I think. Maybe. But a big one on Robz.

why? just because robz told us about flavor? just because teproc was anti flavor claim?

No, not because he told us about flavor. Yes because of the way Teproc was anti-flavor claim. This was swamped by some scummy stuff he said later and I'm back to null on him. As for Robz, it was because of his series of posts from 112-119. That read has tempered somewhat only due to time now.

[mail-mi]

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

Before I've read anything else

I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)

I would like everyone to read this: YES.

I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)

[Robz888]

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

Before I've read anything else

I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)

I would like everyone to read this: YES.

I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)

I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.

[mail-mi]

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

Before I've read anything else

I would like everyone to remember Volt's bias against me. (this is serious)

I would like everyone to read this: YES.

I would like everyone to realize that if mail-mi isn't alive at the end of the game and is town, town loses. (yes this is also semi-serious. Stats say that if you mislynch me, you lose. Look at the games I'm in.)

I think I only bring up biases when I'm scum.

I think I'm not you. And yes, Volt does have a bias against me. MC, WWTWDP (even though he was scum), BtB, others, he's had a bias against me.

[liopoil]

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

since when do we always let mail-mi live??

[Voltaire]

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

since when do we always let mail-mi live??

I'm really, really scarred by GoT.

mail-mi is right that I have a bias against him. I'll fully admit that.

[mail-mi]

Separately, I do see a similarity between Toystoryliopoil and hereliopoil. I am willing to lynch.

Want to lynch: voltaire, liopoil.
Willing: faust, 2.7
Wouldn't shed a tear over: Everyone else
Won't: mail-mi, yuma

[2.71828.....]

And, only one Final to go. . .
I'm voting Liopoil because.
1. He has a very low post count.
2. The posts that he has made are relatively low on content
3. When attacked, he responded with

well dang, sorry guys. It's exam week, but I still should have contributed more than I have been. catching up. Serious thank you for putting me at L-2, so I have a motive to contribute... because lynching town is bad. It really should not work that way, but it did.

e: I get being frustrated at lurkers. Once upon a time, I actually was near the top of the post count a few games in a row, and I was frustrated at lurkers too. But now that I've been there, I realize it's just something we have to deal with. Is it bad for town? yes. Should it happen? no. Will it inevitably happen every game? yes. We're playing a game on the internet, and while everyone made a commitment in signing up, they aren't really committed in the sense that nothing terrible happens to them if they lurk.

That said, it still is rude of me and others to put this game to the side and not contribute. I'm going to try to get back into this game now, something that I've done successfully a few times as both alignments.

I do understand the pressures of exams. I just got out of one ten minutes ago. However, I feel that this is still a poor reason for lurking. I mean, I know how much time I waste doing other things all the time--even during Final's week. You can almost always find a couple minutes to check in and post something that really adds to the game. Generally, I found this response pretty scummy in that it's excuses didn't really add up.
And when it comes down to it, like I said, we need a lynch. Even a lurker lynch is usually better than no lynch. So let's see this finished before the deadline.

ok. This rubbed me the wrong way. It almost felt like a "let's get the least bad lynch in." That type of behavior is not pro town. That is one of the reasons that I was voting Faust. The deadline is in less than 48 hours, but there is still time to build a case on someone else and we do not need to comment ourselves with an ok VT lynch. Although, I can see how a new player will feel the pressure here to make sure we get a lynch.

[Robz888]

Didn't realize deadline was so soon. I'll lynch liopoil, mail-mi, whoever. Well, not yuma, ash, or Voltaire, just because we need them too badly and none of them seem at all scummy to me.

Uh, I guess I'm more concerned that this wasn't a very good Day 1, since I don't really have any reads... Other than strongly thinking ash is town, which is something I always think anyway. And that chairs is PR or scum.

[2.71828.....]

After the whole chairs thing chairs has totally dropped off the radar. I think in a game like this (JK9++) getting reads from night actions will be huge. Chairs especially will need a positive result to help me post him toward town PR and away from scum.

[Robz888]

You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.

Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.

[Voltaire]

You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.

Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.

I'm fine with the concept, not fine with the candidate. He's not a lurker. Go re-read him. His posts have content. Specifically read his case against me. It's wrong, but can you imagine scum making it? I think it's far more likely to come from town.

[liopoil]

You know what, I bet neither liopoil nor mail-mi flip scum, they're just too easy.

Let's try semi-random last minute lynch again. Vote: Lekkit, an un-scrutinized lurker.

I'm fine with the concept, not fine with the candidate. He's not a lurker. Go re-read him. His posts have content. Specifically read his case against me. It's wrong, but can you imagine scum making it? I think it's far more likely to come from town.

I like the concept too, but yeah, wrong guy. who's the right guy? not sure yet.

quickly reread mail-mi, didn't see much for voltaire to suspect, though I actually haven't looked for where voltaire spelled out his suspicion of mail-mi. He was pretty strong against the flavor claiming, but so was I a bit, as was teproc. Really isn't much to get a read on anybody.

[2.71828.....]

If we want random lurker eevee is our guy

[liopoil]

The case on mail-mi: being normal mail-mi, and also appearing to be trying. That's how you find scum!mail-mi. For D1, I'm reasonably happy with this.

here's what I found when I looked for voltaire's case on mail-mi. What did he say that struck you as trying too hard to be normal mail-mi?

also, I would think that it wouldn't take much effort for mail-mi to be normal mail-mi... what else would he be? doing something else sounds harder.

[liopoil]

also:

/somuchin.

Please don't make me scum again!

he can't be scum!