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[Robz888]

I'm not very persuaded by ash's case on faust. What I'm trying to figure out is what ash's case says about ash. Is this something he does as town? I think it's more a town!ash thing to have like a super-confident, likely wrong read on Day 1. So maybe he's just trying to signal to us that he is indeed town. That's all I get from it. But I always see ash as town.

[Eevee]

Ash is clearly faking his certainty to send us some sort of a message. The problem with artificially creating reads to send a message is that.. well, he is not being genuine, and if he is scum, he has all the motivation in the world to manipulate us into thinking otherwise.

I agree he is exaggerating his certainty to send us a message, but sadly I don't think we can really read much into the message. To me it's a very loud and distracting null-tell (that could help determining the alignments of other players once we get some flips and wagons, people often react to ash very strongly until they realize what he is doing).

[liopoil]

Uh, I think the case against you, liopoil, is just a bit more sophisticated than that. It's not just that "you're lurking." Lots of people are lurking for various reasons. I've actually had very little time for this game, so.

The case against you is that, well you're low post count and not much content. AND I think this is something scum liopoil does on Day 1. I remember in Toy Story Mafia wishing you could have a little bit more meatier content on Day 1, worrying that you could and should be the obvious lynch on "lynch the lurker whose posts are most strained to be contributions" basis.

Later, I think you did really get into the game and do a great job. And I think as town, even when you are a lurker, it's not quite like this.

I realize this, hence:

I'm lurking, something I did as scum last game. And that I have done as town previously. I don't think it speaks to my alignment much.

The case is that I'm lurking, which is something that I did as scum last game.

I'd argue that there isn't much of a difference between scum!lio lurking and town!lio lurking.

[Robz888]

Fair enough.

[Voltaire]

I'm not very persuaded by ash's case on faust. What I'm trying to figure out is what ash's case says about ash. Is this something he does as town? I think it's more a town!ash thing to have like a super-confident, likely wrong read on Day 1. So maybe he's just trying to signal to us that he is indeed town. That's all I get from it. But I always see ash as town.

It strikes me as a town!ash thing for now. Enough that I no longer want to lynch him.

[Voltaire]

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

[Voltaire]

I would happily vote/hammer lio if it comes down to that. I'd be happy with that lynch. I'd be happier with others, though.

[EFHW]

Vote Count 1.9

很有意思

2.7... (2): Teproc, yuma
faust (1): ashersky
mail-mi (1): Voltaire
Voltaire (2): mail-mi, Lekkit
liopoil (5): Robz888, Eevee，chairs, faust, Ichimaru Gin {L-2}

Not Voting (2):liopoil, 2.7....

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.

[Robz888]

I would like everyone to re-read mail-mi.

I would like everyone (who has played with him before) to ask themselves, "is this how town!mail-mi acts?"

I would like everyone (especially Robz) to consider how we always let mail-mi live, and what that means.

Okay I'll think about it!

[Eevee]

I reread mail-mi. I thought he started off scummier than he finished, still not quite a townread but I prefer liopoil.

[Robz888]

I reread mail-mi. I thought he started off scummier than he finished, still not quite a townread but I prefer liopoil.

I re-read him too. Yeah, he seemed scummier than I had remembered. I still don't know exactly how to identify scum!mail-mi though, it's just that he's always scum. His posts here are very short, devoid of content... I might accuse him of being too ready to lynch anyone. Don't like his ash or Voltaire votes. A fine lynch I guess.

[Ichimaru Gin]

And, only one Final to go. . .
I'm voting Liopoil because.
1. He has a very low post count.
2. The posts that he has made are relatively low on content
3. When attacked, he responded with

well dang, sorry guys. It's exam week, but I still should have contributed more than I have been. catching up. Serious thank you for putting me at L-2, so I have a motive to contribute... because lynching town is bad. It really should not work that way, but it did.

e: I get being frustrated at lurkers. Once upon a time, I actually was near the top of the post count a few games in a row, and I was frustrated at lurkers too. But now that I've been there, I realize it's just something we have to deal with. Is it bad for town? yes. Should it happen? no. Will it inevitably happen every game? yes. We're playing a game on the internet, and while everyone made a commitment in signing up, they aren't really committed in the sense that nothing terrible happens to them if they lurk.

That said, it still is rude of me and others to put this game to the side and not contribute. I'm going to try to get back into this game now, something that I've done successfully a few times as both alignments.

I do understand the pressures of exams. I just got out of one ten minutes ago. However, I feel that this is still a poor reason for lurking. I mean, I know how much time I waste doing other things all the time--even during Final's week. You can almost always find a couple minutes to check in and post something that really adds to the game. Generally, I found this response pretty scummy in that it's excuses didn't really add up.
And when it comes down to it, like I said, we need a lynch. Even a lurker lynch is usually better than no lynch. So let's see this finished before the deadline.

[Ichimaru Gin]

Also. You really need to be at L-2 in order to contribute?
That just sounds bad.

[liopoil]

right, I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable. and again, of course I shouldn't need to be at L-2, and I'm sure I would have caught up sooner or later regardless of people voting for me. being at L-2 made it sooner, not later.

now I'm going to go way way back and comment on posts as I read back to now.

[ashersky]

I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.

Shame on all of you voting liopoil.

[Eevee]

It's not the amount of posts lio has made that made me vote for him.

[liopoil]

I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.

I don't really have an excuse. my comment about exam week was immediately followed by essentially saying that it doesn't make my lurking excusable.

not asking to be lynched though!

really though, I do have time. If I didn't, I would have posted something in the V/LA thread.

[Voltaire]

I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.

Shame on all of you voting liopoil.

I'd really only say shame for those voting after his "I've been busy" post.

ash, it really doesn't look like a faust lynch is going through. Nor chairs. Who do you want lynched? At one point you'd called Teproc almost as scummy as them. What happened to that?

[Ichimaru Gin]

Serious ash? Why are you trying to derail really the only good wagon we've had D1?
Who do you suggest we lynch? Faust? I don't think that's about to happen right now.

[Ichimaru Gin]

PPE: Just missed Voltaire's post.

[ashersky]

It's not the amount of posts lio has made that made me vote for him.

What has he done that's scummy, though?  Lack of content comes from lack of posts.  It's not like he's tossing votes willy-nilly.

We can't, as a community, lynch lurkers with irl excuses.  Just like we can't as players make up irl excuses for lurking.  College exams are valid and important.

[liopoil]

Serious ash? Why are you trying to derail really the only good wagon we've had D1?
Who do you suggest we lynch? Faust? I don't think that's about to happen right now.

now this is ridiculous. If you don't want to lynch someone, and there's a wagon on them, of course you should try to derail it. And at some point in every D1 there will be a wagon that is the only good wagon we've had. Should we always lynch the first player to get a wagon on them?

[ashersky]

I refuse to lynch someone for IRL.

Shame on all of you voting liopoil.

I'd really only say shame for those voting after his "I've been busy" post.

ash, it really doesn't look like a faust lynch is going through. Nor chairs. Who do you want lynched? At one point you'd called Teproc almost as scummy as them. What happened to that?

I posted my pops quiz yesterday.  I suggested we all do a scum possibility ranking.  No one responded to either.

[liopoil]

ash, here's eevee's vote on me:

Here goes some very rough POE:

Players:
1. Voltaire
2. Robz888
3. mail-mi
4. Chairs
5. Ashersky
6. Yuma
7. Ichimaru Gin
8. Lekkit
9. Liopoil
10. Teproc
11. 2.7
12. Eevee
13. Faust

Players 1-7 eliminated due to activity / general controversy surrounding them (and IG for being new, I agree it's no fun to start of your mafia career by getting lynched).

I wouldn't oppose my lynch if I didn't know my alignment, I know my performance this far has been lacking. Day 1s, I just don't see much happening.

Anyways, faust/Teproc have also been involved in a way I can remember, and Lekkit gets a pass for attempting a case on Voltaire, leaving me to a Vote: liopoil Robz's observations about his play being similar to Toy Story are a nice addition to my own PoE.

I'll note that not all of the players 1-6 have been heavy contributers, and that he doesn't mention e, and doesn't explain why the things he says about faust, teproc, and lekkit are deserving of a D1 pass.

This is why POE isn't so good D1. later, it's awesome. not now.

[liopoil]

That sounds.. very hard for scum that doesn't know the show (game?).

Jeez people, everything will be explained.

Pm's are going out, and hopefully you learned from last time don't freak out when you get a colored Pm, The Battle of the Red Cliffs is the showdown between the massive Wei army(Bad Guys!), against the combined forces of the Wu naval fleet(Good Guys!) and some Shu officers(also good guys!)

I thought this was the fake claim info, plus a no face post later.

All before PMs.

But we also have a flavor name. Can we claim flavor name? Unless scum were provided with fake flavor names, they're caught. The "No Face" is just to remind people that's the flavor for VT (same as last game) I assume.

this, and a couple similar posts by voltaire give me a further townread on him, because he's being pretty bold in saying things about the setup in a situation where we don't definitively know how it works. Saying we all have a flavor name as scum is potentially dangerous if we didn't all have a flavor name.