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[Lekkit]

Skimmed through the thread on my way to work. I'll be back in an hour or so. Also e is the numbers?

[Lekkit]

Allright, so I'm back.

Here's what I think: We either drop this talk about flavor claiming or we claim. I knew nothing of DW flavor prior to this game, and I'm apparently not the only one. All this talk has made think that talking about flavor claiming is bad for town. I'm not sure we'd get much out of flavor claiming, though, and I would prefer if we didn't claim more than has allready been claimed. So here's what I think we should do. We all flavorclaimvote without discussing it much further. If a majority wants to claim, then we all do it. Otherwise we drop it for now.

Flavorclaimvote: Against for me.

And that's all I'll say regarding flavor claims for now, and I'll most likely not say anything more until this vote is over, and I don't think anyone else should either.

[Teproc]

I'm assuming Eevee made a mistake in his post, otherwise it would be pretty funny to see him argue that making sense is scummy. He probably meant I was NOT making sense ?

Ok, so it looks like flavour names can't really reveal PRs. Kinda. I guess it could be a good idea then ? I still don't like it (like yuma, I enjoy the game for the social deduction aspect, I really dislike claiming of any kind actually), but mostly I agree with Lekkit that we just need to move on.

I'll vote no on flavour claiming then, but I'll do it if a majority agrees we should.

[faust]

Aaaand I'm late to the party again.

Look! I subbed into this game so yuma can lynch me D1!

On another note: Is there maybe some value in claiming which army we belong to? Like, I would expect them to have roughly equal numbers, and we might be able to catch scum if one army turns out to be substantially larger.

[faust]

Also, vote: ashersky.

That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!

But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!

[ashersky]

Also, vote: ashersky.

That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!

But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!

vote: faust

I am absolutely certain he is scum.

Also, looking at #1 there, looking for an "okay" mislynch already?  No interest in scum hunting, I see.

[faust]

Also, vote: ashersky.

That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!

But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!

vote: faust

I am absolutely certain he is scum.

Also, looking at #1 there, looking for an "okay" mislynch already?  No interest in scum hunting, I see.

OMGUS?

Stating that I have no interest in scumhunting is ridiculous. I put my vote on the person who right now I believe to be the best lynch, given the information I have. That's just the way this game works. If at some stage I'm convinced someone else is a better lynch, I will switch.

I mean, why DID you flavor-claim?

[Teproc]

faust, what do you think of e, since he prematurely flavour claimed as well ?

[faust]

faust, what do you think of e, since he prematurely flavour claimed as well ?

Well, e was only following ashersky. While I still find this suspicious, I can see it as a mistake because he didn't thoroughly think through the setup. ash is more experienced, and I don't think he makes such mistakes, so out of the two, I prefer voting ashersky.

[faust]

Onm another note, I think all this talk about mass flavor-claiming severely hurt us, up to the point where I would almost policy-vote Voltaire for starting it.

[Eevee]

teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.

um.... he makes sense, so he's scummier? Please explain.

The position e was arguing was so controversially nonsensical, I doubt scum would have wanted to go down that road. Teproc however had an opportunity to be right and increase his activity in an easy way.

The evidence is obviously very circumstantial, as teproc might have just seen something he deemed incorrect and wanted to tell his opinion,
but of the two I find teproc scummier, for making sense.


Yuma's position is consistent with his earlier opinions, and not an alignment tell, I don't think. Maybe the mods should stress that the game will partially be about flavor beforehand, as it seems some people don't want to play that game.

I would postpone claiming, what robz is saying makes sense, but I think can also be useful later - finding a plausible flavor for a role you are fakeclaiming just using wikipedia sounds hard as well.

[Teproc]

That's some interesting logic. I mean, what is town supposed to do in this situation, just say nothing ? I guess it would be more accurate to say that you find e townier than me in that argument, more than me being scummier ? Since what you're saying is that scum wouldn't hold a "nonsensical" position, not really that town wouldn't try to "make sense".

Basically I see what you're saying, but it seems to me that your logic should be giving you a town read on e rather than a scum read on me.

And I still disagree with it. People make mistakes/are wrong all the time, scum or town. And e was actually right about names not giving away PRs.

[Eevee]

You are right, "e came off townier" would have been more accurate, but especially in the beginning of the game, I like to make controversial statements to get the game running.

You continued with the extremely level-headed and rational responses. I don't know what you'd look like scum, my only previous game with you had me happy you were arguing your reads so convincingly because they happened to be wrong and I was scum.

fwiw, and this is more like a general
point:
regardless of your alignment, reacting like that instead of say getting upset at my (in your eyes almost baseless) accusations, makes you fun to play with.

[Teproc]

Hey, I was right about mail-mi ! And then I proceeded to be wrong about everything. So yeah. But let's not talk about that game, shall we ?

[mail-mi]

Hey, I was right about mail-mi ! And then I proceeded to be wrong about everything. So yeah. But let's not talk about that game, shall we ?

Hey I liked that game!

[mail-mi]

@Eevee: Good nuf explanation for me.

[Voltaire]

Sure. I voted for Ash cause he voted for me.
I haven't had any previous experience with mafia, although I have read (all the way through) a couple of mafia games on here.
Time zone: Pacific.

This is the kind of OMGUS newbie town does. Town read on Ichimaru.

[chairs]

1) Clarifications from mcmc have sufficed to make me worry less about outing PRs with simple flavor claims.  (Sorry for frustrating you, mcmc!)
2) Unlike CK9++, I am not seeing many good options for claiming in JK9++ - no "1-shot X means we have Y" type stuff.

[Voltaire]

I'm assuming Eevee made a mistake in his post, otherwise it would be pretty funny to see him argue that making sense is scummy. He probably meant I was NOT making sense ?

I stand with Eevee on this one. Null tell on you though (though I already find you vaguely scummy), small town read on Eevee though.

Also, vote: ashersky.

That guy is always scum. I mean, in the last game I played with him, he was scum twice!

But seriously: Ashersky flavor-claimed before we knew whether VTs had flavor names. This probably means one of two things:
1) ash himself is a VT, so he already knew. In that case, he's an okay mislynch.
2) ash is scum and had a fake claim provided. In that case, lynch him!

vote: faust

I am absolutely certain he is scum.

Also, looking at #1 there, looking for an "okay" mislynch already?  No interest in scum hunting, I see.

Ash has claimed every vote against him is terrible. Also everything faust says is right. If ash turns out to be a PR then he knew he was maybe outing himself, so he'll be ok with it. vote: ashersky (I think my vote was already there but that's definitely where I want it).

Onm another note, I think all this talk about mass flavor-claiming severely hurt us, up to the point where I would almost policy-vote Voltaire for starting it.

 

[Voltaire]

In all seriousness, top scum read, along with Teproc.  Hesitance/fear of the claiming TALK, even before the claiming, is a scum tell.

Also, everyone should vote ash because chairs is one of his top scum reads.

[faust]

In all seriousness, top scum read, along with Teproc.  Hesitance/fear of the claiming TALK, even before the claiming, is a scum tell.

Also, everyone should vote ash because chairs is one of his top scum reads.

I agree that this makes ash look even scummier.

[faust]

Well, there's more to this setup than just flavor stuff. For example: We are likely to have a Hider. Is that going to help us? Should they claim? (It's a good claim I think, because unlike with other roles, there can't be more than one, so fakeclaiming is dangerous) I vaguely remember someone somewhere talking about some "Hider plan" that worked great in some game I didn't participate in. Are we able to pull off something like this here? Can someone who was in this game explain how that plan worked?

[faust]

By the way, I had too much spare time, so I did some math. Maybe this can be of use.

Probabilities for PRs:

P(there is a Tracker)=63,6%

P(there is a 1-shot Tracker)=22,2%

P(there is a Doctor)=P(there is a Jailkeeper)=31,5%

P(there is a Hider)=49,1%

P(there is a 1-shot Commuter)=13,9%

P(there is a Vengeful)=P(there is a Vigilante)=31,5%

P(there is a Role Cop)=24,6%

P(there is a Gunsmith)=4,1%

P(there is a Mafia Bus Driver)=40,9%

P(there is a Mafia JOAT)=73,0%

P(there is a SK)=50,0%

[Voltaire]

Well, there's more to this setup than just flavor stuff. For example: We are likely to have a Hider. Is that going to help us? Should they claim? (It's a good claim I think, because unlike with other roles, there can't be more than one, so fakeclaiming is dangerous) I vaguely remember someone somewhere talking about some "Hider plan" that worked great in some game I didn't participate in. Are we able to pull off something like this here? Can someone who was in this game explain how that plan worked?

It won't work here. It worked in Clue because of a list provided by the mod in the OP that accidentally created a flawless Hider plan. It was broken and will never happen again.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 1.2:

2.71828 (1): chairs
Voltaire (1): mail-mi
ashersky (3): Voltaire, Ichimaru Gin, Faust
Eevee (1): Yuma
Faust (1): ashersky

Not Voting (6): Robz888, Lekkit, Liopoil, Eevee, Teproc, 2.71828

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on December, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.