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[Teproc]

I think he either meant night 0 or the flips we'll get after night 1.

Do you think it means we/some people will get PMs with flavour info during night 1 ? That might be a thing I guess.

[Teproc]

So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But  I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
Sorry, just really confused about the whole flavor thing.

This is exactly what I meant. I'm still waiting for the pro-claim people to explain to me why this line of reasoning is wrong.

[Voltaire]

So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But  I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
Sorry, just really confused about the whole flavor thing.

This is exactly what I meant. I'm still waiting for the pro-claim people to explain to me why this line of reasoning is wrong.

I don't know that it's wrong. I am simply suspicious since mcmc made it extremely unclear if scum have fake claims. Normally this is something a mod explains prior to a game. That's all.

[Teproc]

I believe he made it unclear to make it a strategic possibility for scum to trick town into massclaiming flavour.

[ashersky]

This early in the game?  Definitely worth keeping things under wraps.  Later in the game, more info is better for the town.

Since when is this how ashersky plays? vote: ashersky.

RVS, I assume.

Since when is it possible to define how I play?

vote: ichimaru

[Voltaire]

This early in the game?  Definitely worth keeping things under wraps.  Later in the game, more info is better for the town.

Since when is this how ashersky plays? vote: ashersky.

RVS, I assume.

Since when is it possible to define how I play?

vote: ichimaru

Nooooooooooope. Serious vote.

[ashersky]

Voting the person you yourself mentioned might be a possible town PR?  Awesome.

[2.71828.....]

If the claim does nothing, why does it matter who was for or against it ?

The way I see it :
- scum doesn't have any fake claim. We massclaim names and we win. This has a 0% chance to happen because the game would just be stupid if it were the case
- scum does have fake claims. PRs and VTs are undistinguishable. This gives us nothing. I fail to see how it would be relevant to see who is for or against it if the claiming accomplishes nothing.
- scum does have fake claims. PRs and VTs are recognizable. Yay, we just outed PRs !

I think the second option is by far the most likely, and I don't see the point of it. Since there is a risk that the third option is a thing, I'm against it, and I assume scum would be in favor (which is not to say I assume everyone in favor would be scum).

So it's possible that flavor could reveal whether you're a PR or not? As I said, I know absolutely nothing about the flavor. But  I could just look up names on the dynasty warriors wiki or something. If scum has been provided with fake flavor names, then claiming doesn't really get town anything, does it? And it seems that options 1 and 3 would skew the game somewhat.
Sorry, just really confused about the whole flavor thing.

This is exactly what I meant. I'm still waiting for the pro-claim people to explain to me why this line of reasoning is wrong.

Option 1- Unlikely, but not out of the question.  Scum would want to make it seem totally ridiculous.  Town would be likely to believe them so totally discrediting this option is easy for scum.

Option 2- Most likely.  The thing that I believe is that it is actually beneficial to town.  Maybe not right now, but as the game progresses we will learn more and forcing people to take a stand is important.

Option 3- Unlikely, but not impossible.  I think a big key here is that we have two claims rather than just one.  If you look at wiki entries for both of them (here and here), you can see the similarities and differences.  They could easily fit a PR or VT role.  Now, more in-depth knowledge might help some people, but most of us will not do the research (don't have time to do the research) to fully grasp the entire story and how that character has developed over time.  Then you throw in the fact that mcmc said he would be taking some characters and making the "stock" characters.  So a fancy description may very well have been demoted to "stock" character. 

So, in my mind, Option 3 is not really that true since names will show alignment, but not role.  Option 2 is very good because it forces people to have an opinion.  It forces people to take sides.  Which as Ashersky pointed out is good for endgame.  Which makes me think that town would want to help town and help put information out, while scum might not be so eager.  Which is why I am pro-claim (clearly).  Option 1 would be nice, however unlikely.  However,

I believe he made it unclear to make it a strategic possibility for scum to trick town into massclaiming flavour.

He might have left it ambiguous because he did not give scum fakeclaims, making it a strategic possibility for town to attempt a claim, but forcing scum to fight it.

[Teproc]

See, I just don't think these are the same things. Having this as a strategical possibility for scum is fine because town doesn't outright lose the game if scum convinces them to out their PRs. Having it as a strategical possibility for town is not fine because scum would just lose on the spot.

So, the way you see option 3 is that the info would still be very vague ? I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying, because what you're describing looks a lot like option 2 to me, functionnally.

And if it's option 2, who was for or against the claim is irrelevant. Wait, actually it wouldn't, scum would be in favor (slight chance of outing PRs) and town would be against (slight chance of outing PRs, no chance of outing scum).

So yeah, let's do it and lynch Voltaire, ashersky and 2.7. Game over.*

*This is not serious. I think there's some huge WIFOM which makes it pretty impossible to get anything out of people pro or anti-claiming position in option 2, because not all scum would be pushing for it, and some town would be pushing against it because people are wrong sometimes.

[Teproc]

*some town would be pushing for it because people are wrong sometimes. ie it wouldn't mean that all of the people pushing for it are scum.

[Voltaire]

Voting the person you yourself mentioned might be a possible town PR?  Awesome.

I honestly forgot you'd maybe-claimed.

[Teproc]

God I suck at posting. It would mean that NOT all of the people pushing for it are scum. I should go to bed now, these mistakes are embarassing.

[2.71828.....]

See, I just don't think these are the same things. Having this as a strategical possibility for scum is fine because town doesn't outright lose the game if scum convinces them to out their PRs. Having it as a strategical possibility for town is not fine because scum would just lose on the spot.

So, the way you see option 3 is that the info would still be very vague ? I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying, because what you're describing looks a lot like option 2 to me, functionnally.

And if it's option 2, who was for or against the claim is irrelevant. Wait, actually it wouldn't, scum would be in favor (slight chance of outing PRs) and town would be against (slight chance of outing PRs, no chance of outing scum).

So yeah, let's do it and lynch Voltaire, ashersky and 2.7. Game over.*

*This is not serious. I think there's some huge WIFOM which makes it pretty impossible to get anything out of people pro or anti-claiming position in option 2, because not all scum would be pushing for it, and some town would be pushing against it because people are wrong sometimes.

What I describe as option 3 does look similar to 2 because I do not believe that PRs will be outed. PRs can only be outed with a role claim. Which we are not doing.  We are claiming flavor names. Which helps with alignment. Not with PRs. And there is serious WIFOM with pretty much any info that goes out.  Flavor, role, anything. Not until we have heard data to analyze on that person (read: they are dead) can we truly learn anything about their early stances. So when I flip town (in the off chance that I die on D3 or N3 for example) there will be something for you to look at.Which helps town. And when you flip scum (say on D1 or N1) we will learn something from your refusal to claim.

[Ichimaru Gin]

vote: Ashersky

[mcmcsalot]

Clarification's

Everyone received a Character name and a role(A Power role or "No face officer" which simply means "Vanilla Townie")

Flavor indicates alignment.

Flavor follows logically the events and characteristics of the game series from my interpretations.

In Mafia XXXII Flavor Claiming was not allowed as it directly related to role. Wu were doctors. Shu were vigs. Wei were investigators. Yuan were IC. All power roles were characters who were playable in the game series. All Vanilla Townies were characters who were not playable in the game series.

In Mafia XXXVI Flavor Claiming is allowed.

The flavor is taken from my memory of the game series which includes up to Dynasty Warriors 7 http://koei.wikia.com/wiki/Dynasty_Warriors_7

Everyone received a different PM which contained different information.

[Teproc]

See, I just don't think these are the same things. Having this as a strategical possibility for scum is fine because town doesn't outright lose the game if scum convinces them to out their PRs. Having it as a strategical possibility for town is not fine because scum would just lose on the spot.

So, the way you see option 3 is that the info would still be very vague ? I'm not sure I completely understand what you're saying, because what you're describing looks a lot like option 2 to me, functionnally.

And if it's option 2, who was for or against the claim is irrelevant. Wait, actually it wouldn't, scum would be in favor (slight chance of outing PRs) and town would be against (slight chance of outing PRs, no chance of outing scum).

So yeah, let's do it and lynch Voltaire, ashersky and 2.7. Game over.*

*This is not serious. I think there's some huge WIFOM which makes it pretty impossible to get anything out of people pro or anti-claiming position in option 2, because not all scum would be pushing for it, and some town would be pushing against it because people are wrong sometimes.

What I describe as option 3 does look similar to 2 because I do not believe that PRs will be outed. PRs can only be outed with a role claim. Which we are not doing.  We are claiming flavor names. Which helps with alignment. Not with PRs. And there is serious WIFOM with pretty much any info that goes out.  Flavor, role, anything. Not until we have heard data to analyze on that person (read: they are dead) can we truly learn anything about their early stances. So when I flip town (in the off chance that I die on D3 or N3 for example) there will be something for you to look at.Which helps town. And when you flip scum (say on D1 or N1) we will learn something from your refusal to claim.

So you don't think option 3 is possible basically. But you think option 1 is ? I don't see how you could truly believe that . I could see believeing neither is possible, or that both are, but 1 is so much less likely than 3 that I fail to see how this makes sense at all.

I don't think mcmc's clarification clarifies much of what I'm worried about. Unless the fact that flavor claiming being allowed this time means it's not related to role, but he is deliberately not saying that outright. I guess that makes option 3 less likely, but I still see it as more likely than 1, pretty easily.

[mcmcsalot]

Vote Count 1.1:

2.71828 (1): chairs
chairs (1): 2.71828
Voltaire (1): mail-mi
ashersky (2): Voltaire, Ichimaru Gin
Ichimaru Gin (1): ashersky

Not Voting (7): Robz888, Yuma, Lekkit, Liopoil, Eevee, Faust, Teproc

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on Deceber, 19 at 2:00 p.m. Forum time.

[mail-mi]

Totally siding with Teproc right now. He's the only one making sense!

[yuma]

I really doubt that flavor claiming could give us a positive benefit. I mean, the whole point of flavor is that it's unrelated to the real game, right? I'll gladly flavor claim if it does indeed give us a benefit, but if this is the case I think it pretty much goes against the idea of the game and isn't really what I signed up for.

I agree with this entire statement... except for the "gladly flavor claim part." I won't be claiming anything right now. I think mass claiming of any type is 1. generally bad for town (very few situations have/would have produced good results for town--Bankers for example--and we can't know right now given the info we have wether it will be good or bad, so let's just not go there) and 2. it is lame. If in fact flavor claiming would out scum I wouldn't find any satisfaction from that sort of a victory.

I am going to try really hard to not get sucked into any sort of petty, unproductive argument about this like in Harry Potter. You all know where I stand. Respect my stance and just because I don't post a million posts arguing it of it doesn't mean I have stopped believing in it.

[yuma]

vote: Ashersky

can you explain your vote and then tell us about yourself... (specifically previous mafia experience of any kind and your timezone would be most beneficial)

welcome to forum mafia!

[Ichimaru Gin]

Sure. I voted for Ash cause he voted for me.
I haven't had any previous experience with mafia, although I have read (all the way through) a couple of mafia games on here.
Time zone: Pacific.

I'm actually going to a Toastmasters meeting right now. But I'll be back in one hour.

[Eevee]

why does him voting for you make you want to vote for him?


town reads on Voltaire and chairs by extension. teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.

[mail-mi]

teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.

um.... he makes sense, so he's scummier? Please explain.

[yuma]

teproc is making sense, so he is slightly scummier than e I guess.

um.... he makes sense, so he's scummier? Please explain.

Eevee is totally making sense here

vote: eevee

[ashersky]

vote: yuma because yuma.