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[flies]

To flies : it's funny, but not at all !!  Abel is my third Christian name , and the first one of my grandfather... And 'K' is the first letter of my name... That's all (and, shame on me, I never seen one minute of Veonika Mars... )

No shame. It's not a good show.

Them's fightin words, partner

[KingZog3]

To flies : it's funny, but not at all !!  Abel is my third Christian name , and the first one of my grandfather... And 'K' is the first letter of my name... That's all (and, shame on me, I never seen one minute of Veonika Mars... )

No shame. It's not a good show.

Them's fightin words, partner

Sorry I didn't mean it so harshly. It's just too light for my taste. Plus I never like shows aimed at teens/shows about teens and their love life/shows that have teen's love lives as a side plot.

[flies]

No worries.  I just think it's very well written with a strong cast (esp the lead and her dad).  Lots of nifty plot twists and snappy dialogue.  It also does an unusually good job of representing class and gender.

I agree that the teen love plots can get a little tired, but among teen love plots it's still ahead of the pack. 

Ergo Veronica Mars is the best show ever and anyone who disagrees deserves a double miss in every game evar.

[Holger]

I dunno, being able to forge other forges into Province without a dependency on Shelter/Poor House would be a pretty big change.  It might be dominant.  Maybe maybe not.

Expand can do even better: it can Expand itself into a Platinum, and doesn't need a $2 card in hand, but it is still not a dominant card. I really don't see this as overpowered; you don't buy a $6/$7 card just to TfB it anyway, in my experience.* And forging into Provinces is already possible in Shelter games.

Another "fix" for Forge would be to keep the price, but replace the "exactly" by "up to" - this would greatly improve its flexibility...

*Edge case: Border Village.

[KingZog3]

I dunno, being able to forge other forges into Province without a dependency on Shelter/Poor House would be a pretty big change.  It might be dominant.  Maybe maybe not.

Expand can do even better: it can Expand itself into a Platinum, and doesn't need a $2 card in hand, but it is still not a dominant card. I really don't see this as overpowered; you don't buy a $6/$7 card just to TfB it anyway, in my experience.* And forging into Provinces is already possible in Shelter games.

Another "fix" for Forge would be to keep the price, but replace the "exactly" by "up to" - this would greatly improve its flexibility...

*Edge case: Border Village.

But the "up to" would make it too good I think. I can trash all kinds of things in the end game with no penalty and just pick up Provinces.

[Holger]

I dunno, being able to forge other forges into Province without a dependency on Shelter/Poor House would be a pretty big change.  It might be dominant.  Maybe maybe not.

Expand can do even better: it can Expand itself into a Platinum, and doesn't need a $2 card in hand, but it is still not a dominant card. I really don't see this as overpowered; you don't buy a $6/$7 card just to TfB it anyway, in my experience.* And forging into Provinces is already possible in Shelter games.

Another "fix" for Forge would be to keep the price, but replace the "exactly" by "up to" - this would greatly improve its flexibility...

*Edge case: Border Village.

But the "up to" would make it too good I think. I can trash all kinds of things in the end game with no penalty and just pick up Provinces.

Maybe you're right, I'm not sure. But this only works if the other (preferably non-green) cards in hand together cost at least $8; and you may get a Province out of playing them instead of trashing them as well.
And Expand is also very likely to give you a Province in the end game, you just need any $5+ card in hand, and you can still play the other cards to maybe gain another green card.

[Stealth Tomato]

I'm always a little bit surprised when Forge gets cited as underpowered for the cost. Back on Iso, I had a gain rate of about .86 with it, wildly higher than most players, and it was one of my highest win-rate cards. (Councilroom won't talk to me at the moment so I can't confirm)

The biggest problem with Forge is that most people aren't exceptionally good at playing with it. You have to focus fairly heavily on obtaining it, and then you have to be very aggressive with the trashing element. Many players are unwilling to do one or both.

Forge offers you very good upgrading (Estate-Silver-Copper into a $5 is typical), good endgame control (via Province -> Province), and some great aggressive plays once you're in full-greening mode (Silver-$5 or Gold-$2 into a Province). Its versatility is great, and it's only really held back by being terminal.


I tend to see Expand as underrated as well (particularly with strong $5s that can be turned into Provinces), but it's undoubtedly overpriced--see Graverobber.

[KingZog3]

I'm always a little bit surprised when Forge gets cited as underpowered for the cost. Back on Iso, I had a gain rate of about .86 with it, wildly higher than most players, and it was one of my highest win-rate cards. (Councilroom won't talk to me at the moment so I can't confirm)

The biggest problem with Forge is that most people aren't exceptionally good at playing with it. You have to focus fairly heavily on obtaining it, and then you have to be very aggressive with the trashing element. Many players are unwilling to do one or both.

Forge offers you very good upgrading (Estate-Silver-Copper into a $5 is typical), good endgame control (via Province -> Province), and some great aggressive plays once you're in full-greening mode (Silver-$5 or Gold-$2 into a Province). Its versatility is great, and it's only really held back by being terminal.


I tend to see Expand as underrated as well (particularly with strong $5s that can be turned into Provinces), but it's undoubtedly overpriced--see Graverobber.

I agree on Forge. I think it's better than people think. Expand is not that good. It would be ok at $6, but I would still take other $6's before Expand.

[Asper]

Forge offers you very good upgrading (Estate-Silver-Copper into a $5 is typical), good endgame control (via Province -> Province), and some great aggressive plays once you're in full-greening mode (Silver-$5 or Gold-$2 into a Province). Its versatility is great, and it's only really held back by being terminal.

I'd rather have Salvager on my board for all those reasons. Sure, it only trashes one card, but it's so much more flexible and allows roughly the same things Forge does, except using it as a Chapel.