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[pingpongsam]

FoS: chairs

Multiple request by multiple people for some elaboration on the sudgy looks like a SK comment he made.

[faust]

Ash, the "scumslip" was you saying that I said mafia the first time and scum the second time.

I study my PMs not trying to memorize them, but in other ways.  I asked Volt what would happen if I got roleblocked or docced, trying to find ways that I could get saved.

I was thinking, someone could go back in time and try to save me.  If I get saved, we catch scum.  If I don't, I got killed.

But how do you know there's a role like "time-travelling doctor"? I think the OP example shows that a role like that would be very much overpowered.

[faust]

Question for the sudgy wagon: why would he be fake claiming right now day one? What's the end game?

I will note that my vote stands against his voting pattern. His claim didn't exist until after my vote. chairs' inclination that he was acting like a SK keeps me interested in my vote because I think it fits the claim perfectly.

I think looking for the SK to lynch instead of just wanting to lynch scum is somewhat of a scum trait. Especially D1, and when we don't even know whether we have a SK.

[faust]

Also, just thought of this, but I'm pretty sure if we have two protective roles, we can game the game to auto-win.

Basically, once one dies, the other one time travels to save him.  Then, even if that one gets killed, the other saves him.  And they just rotate who's alive and who's dead while lynching everyone else.

This of course only works if both have the ability to time travel. Which as already stated would be overpowered.

[faust]

Okay, now sudgy. I think he is best left alive today. If he is lying, he has to continue lying in the future, which will get harder. If he is telling the truth, he might die sooner or later and all we're doing here is wasting a lynch and let a potentially strong town PR die early.

I like xeiron's plan, and I think sudgy should follow it today.

[faust]

Clarification: I think we sudgy should follow the plan that he announces multiple targets today based on his flavor. I do not think doctoring sudgy is such a great idea.

[faust]

So, right now we have (without rereading because I don't have the time right now)

Archetype - Archetype? I have heard hardly anything from him since that early wagon. Seems like a good target.

chairs - Weird Tree Stump claim is reason enough to let him live.

sudgy - I also think he should be left alive because of his claim, and think the way he acted towards the claim fits his meta.

Walrus - has not given me any strong vibes. Null.

Jimmmmm - I find his contributions useful and would like to have him around for D2.

xeiron - not sure what to make of his reaction to sudgy's claim. First part seemed towny, but about the later parts I'm not so sure.

ashersky - claimed and should stay alive. Also contributes a lot, and I like the way he plays.

faust

Galzria - has to post more. But I'm rather unwilling to lynch him, as he's a strong town player.

2.71828..... - don't know. Have to reread I guess. Null for now.

EFHW - IC.

pingpongsam - Lean towny. I'd prefer not to lynch him today.

nkirbit - Could lynch.

jotheonah - Slight town read.

After this, I think I want to vote: Archetype. Again.

[pingpongsam]

Question for the sudgy wagon: why would he be fake claiming right now day one? What's the end game?

I will note that my vote stands against his voting pattern. His claim didn't exist until after my vote. chairs' inclination that he was acting like a SK keeps me interested in my vote because I think it fits the claim perfectly.

I think looking for the SK to lynch instead of just wanting to lynch scum is somewhat of a scum trait. Especially D1, and when we don't even know whether we have a SK.

I see your point. The thing is I am interested in lynching any scum which was the basis for my vote. Upon the claim the notion that it could be a specific type of scum occurred and then was reinforced by chairs' allegation which thus far he has not supported. But, yeah, I see your point. If sudgy is Town well, it's a terrible lynch. If sudgy is Mafia, it's a pretty bad claim. If he is SK the claim fits, it's a great lynch but I am getting into egotism to think I've somehow identified the SK on D1 from some highly circumstantial evidence.

That said, at this rate if we all claim we go to D1 no-lynch because so far every claim has resulted in a 1-day pass today.

[pingpongsam]

Archetype made it clear he was V/LA with today being the earliest possible date he could post again. Voting him for being absent is a low blow.

[jotheonah]

Clarification: I think we sudgy should follow the plan that he announces multiple targets today based on his flavor. I do not think doctoring sudgy is such a great idea.

What is not such a great idea is talking at all about whether or not we should doctor sudgy.

[chairs]

(This post is not in response to the votes I got)

I'm going to partially claim.  I have been thinking about it, and I think it is in town's best interests.

My role has the "weak" modifier.  This means, that when I target somebody at night, if I target the mafia, I die.

Now, this can be used as a cop.  Either I announce my target the night before, then we see if I die (but in RMM, it would be hard to know), or if I die somebody can go back in time to save me (a roleblocker could do that).

EFHW, do you think I should announce my target each night?

This got answered already but is a bad idea because scum can abuse it.  The "if my flavor name starts with X" is good, though.

unvote.

[Archetype]

That V/LA was really unexpected, but I'm here! And I've caught up!

Firstly, I believe sudgy's claim. Mostly because it's coming from sudgy and, no offense, I don't think he would have came up with Weak as a fakeclaim if he were scum. It's possible that Voltaire gave the scum fakeclaims though. I do not think he should name his target beforehand. At all. FOS to all those who said he should. Anyone who remembers LOTR2 (ash especially) should know I was a Weak Doctor and did the same thing. Terrible, terrible move. Scum didn't manipulate it per se, but it ended up hurting more than helping. I think the same thing can happen here if we aren't careful. I really like xeiron's plan of using the first letter to determine scum/town.


It's spread throughout a couple of quotes, but xeiron seems to be putting a lot of emphasis on sudgy's power. I think that if there is a Doctor (Time Traveling or not) they shouldn't be trying to keep sudgy alive as much as possible. His power is a very fragile cop that, while I'm pretty sure could be Town, isn't reliable when compared to saving EFHW who is modconfirmed Town aligned. And apparently a Doctor saving sudgy won't do anything, but a Roleblocker can. Which I'm still confused about.

I'm keeping my vote on xeiron. It seems like's he's directing the conversation around sudgy's power than about actual scum hunting.

[Archetype]

So here are my reads:

Archetype - Town

chairs - I'm like 80% he's Town based on his claim, but we have seen a scum Tree Stumps. His SK theory is strange.

sudgy - Reminds me of MC Sudgy. That combined with his claim gives me a towny vibe here

Walrus - Leaning Towny. Can't really remember anything he's said in particular.

Jimmmmm - Seems a bit too interested in sudgy's claim and IIRC was one of the first people on my early wagon. Leaning a bit scum.

xeiron - Jumping to conclusions and is like a dog on a bone with players' claims. Scummy.

ashersky - Reminds me of how he played as Maleficent in Grimm Tale. Shoving his opinion down other people's throat and pushing too hard for information. Then again he is usually like that. Plus I don't think he's being 100% truthful with his claim. Scummy.

faust - Null, but he also has come out against me some. So he's obv. scum.

Galzria - I can remember he posted some big-ish post, but nothing from it. Null. Come post!

2.71828..... - Top townread. Very insightful posts and it seems like we have some similar views.

EFHW - IC. I think this is her first time being one...?

pingpongsam - Null, leaning Town. He has posted a Modest Mouse song so he rocks. But he has also defended me a bunch which reminds me of ashersky in Monster Madness Mafia. Other than that I don't really have an opinion

nkirbit - Null, but leaning Towny.

jotheonah - Null. I can't remember anything in particular.

Won't lynch:
EFHW
Archetype
chairs
2.7
sudgy

Willing to lynch (in order):
xeiron
ashersky
Jimmmmm
jotheonah/faust
nkirbit/PPS
Walrus/Galzria

[2.71828.....]

All right.  reads reads reads.  I reread the thread and made a note of the things that stood out to me. (either I think they were scummy or had some significance.  I did not include lots of posts arguing over claims and such)
1. Archetype-
/98 says leans scum on Ash, but then says it is a weird claim for scum.
/197 sheeps jo’s xeiron vote

2. chairs-
/180 claims tree stump D2
/218 sheeps jo’s xeiron vote
/248 mentions lynching galz for lurking
/266 votes sudgy in a strange way

3. sudgy-
/198 sheeps jo’s xeiron vote
/269 partial claim.  “weak” modifier

4. Walrus-
/251 reads post.  ends with a nkirbit vote for questionable reasons (in my opinion)

5. Jimmmmm-
/102 votes archetype because of archetype's /98

6. xeiron-
/169 votes archetype for “setting up a D2 mislynch” of Ashersky

7. ashersky-
/80 claims enabler
/286 points out alleged differences in posts when sudgy referred to “mafia” in one then “anti-town” in another.  votes sudgy in the next post

8. faust-
/120 puts words in Ashersky’s mouth about lynching him
/265 says sudgy would be a good lurker lynch
/270 unvotes after the “weak” claim

9. Galzria-
/221 great post with lots of content about the Ash claim, but hasn't commented on anything else

12. pingpongsam-
/264 useful reads post. ends with voting sudgy because of his voting history so far

13. nkirbit-
/291 says the xeiron plan for sudgy doesn’t work and then votes sudgy because he thinks it is a fake-claim

14. jotheonah-
/119 secret case for why we should not lynch Ash
/166 votes ash because he does not see a town narrative for his play
/185 votes xeiron because he /194 “starts” the archetype wagon
/196 says he supports Ash and xeiron lynches
/261 votes nkirbit. never really expands on that


As far as scummy people go, I find Faust scummy.  But it seems to me like Faust just posts in a way that makes me think he could be scum, but turns out to be town.  I am not ready to vote or lynch him.  I also find chairs scummy.  But with his claim I will let him slide until D2.  I don't like Walrus' rationale for his nkirbit vote at the end of his reads post.  Seemed a little scummy to me. 

Joth has been useful and posting, but has switched his vote so many times.  I am interested in what his original reason to not lynch Ashersky was, especially since it was so strong, yet not strong enough from preventing him from voting Ash later.  My original town read has been shifting scummier and scummier.

So I don't have any strong scum reads.  However, I do not want to lynch any of the people that have claimed things so far.  Ash because Ash.  Chairs because his claim is easy to figure out D2 if he was lying.  Sudgy because I don't really see his claim coming from a scum perspective.  Also Ash got on him for saying "mafia" one time and then "anti-town" another.  I may be naive, but that just seemed like he was going off memory and then went and actually checked the PM.  so a little towny.

PPE:3

[Voltaire]

Vote Count 1.6

Archetype (3): Jimmmmm, xeiron, faust
xeiron (2): Archetype, sudgy
nkirbit (2): Walrus, jotheonah
sudgy (3): pingpongsam, ashersky, nkirbit

Not voting (4): 2.7..., chairs, EFHW, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

D1 ends on Friday, December 27 at 530 PM forum time (two days added due to the original deadline falling on Christmas)

[EFHW]

So, it looks like a lot of us are going to be busy over the next few days and not as available for mafia.  Our deadline is the 27th at 5:30 pm.  Ideally the game can pick up on the evening of the 26th so we can have some discussion before the deadline.   Please make a quick post letting us know your availability those two evenings, and if you can't be there, be sure to leave a vote before you go!

[ashersky]

Honestly, I'll be completely focused on family time for the Christmas holidays, so basically LA until Monday.

[sudgy]

I have something tonight, tomorrow night, then on Christmas day I'm gone all day.

My free time is being all spent on a Christmas gift...

[xeiron]

I am also busy with christmas the coming days.
I will have phone access, so I can follow the game, but don't expect much activity from me.

[xeiron]

Great discussion.  I'm inclined to believe sudgy.  This claim seems a lot like his claim in MC of being a captained doctor, which turned out to be true.  Not really thought out, asking for guidance.  I think the investigative aspect of his weak role is wasted if he doesn't claim.  It may be hard to find a way to really trust the information we get from this, but not telling us pretty much wastes it.  He could have looked for a way to breadcrumb, or cryptically announce, like ashersky says, but that's tricky too.  Now that we know, telling us might have wasted the PR itself, but it's too late now.

Now that it's done, I suggest he does not mention any names, but devises a clue based on his flavor name that would point uniquely to one person who he then targets.  sudgy make sure the clue gives nothing away ahead of time!  Those of you familiar with Dr. Who, can his flavor name be inferred from what we already know?

A couple of people have mentioned "then you guys can time travel and ....".  I don't think we should make any plans based on hopes that we could do that.  Too many things can go wrong.  Don't claim based on that, either.  ashersky I think your doctor plan wouldn't work b/c we wouldn't necessarily know what nights things were done.

PR's should use their own judgement about who to target, but I personally don't think we should use the doctor in the way xeiron suggests. 

Thoughts?

I think EFHW makes much sense here.

[pingpongsam]

I should be present after Christmas. So Thursday/Friday I'll be around as much as usual.

[EFHW]

Honestly, I'll be completely focused on family time for the Christmas holidays, so basically LA until Monday.

Please leave your reads before you go!

[ashersky]

Honestly, I'll be completely focused on family time for the Christmas holidays, so basically LA until Monday.

Please leave your reads before you go!

Town: me, EFHW
Townish: Galz
Safely nullish: chairs for the claim
Unsafely nullish: everyone else
Scummish: sudgy for the claim, walrus for oddly lurking?

I don't know, no real strong reads, as this has been an odd D1.  This is a pretty worthless post, all in all.

[jotheonah]

I am with my family but honestly, some times I need a break from them. I've also been sick, so I know the next thing I need to do is reread some people and see what jumps out, but I'm just too lazy right now.

[Archetype]

I'll be with family Christmas Eve/Christmas Day. I think I've posted all that you've wanted EFHW.