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[deggertsen]

So my wife and I got Dominion a few months ago and LOVED it. We were so happy to finally find a game that we could both play together that was fun. We made all the common mistakes that most noobs make, but that's what made it fun. The problem came when we actually figured out what I would consider the ultimate strategy of the game. Buy money and forget the action cards.

Now our games last about 10 minutes and involve 3-5 action cards in our deck max! And this happens even when we use all 12 of each victory card. Usually the person to get less action cards wins. When you have 3 treasure in your hand you buy silver, when you have 4 you buy the best action card to get you more money or cards in your hand (i.e. Smithy), when you have 5 treasure you buy a dutchy, when you have 6 or 7 treasure you get a gold, and when you have 8+ of course you buy a province. So most of the Kingdom cards are ignored. The problem is that it's the kingdom cards that actually make the game FUN! (Note that this strategy may not hold true when playing 3 or 4 players, though I think it would, but it seems to win every time in 2 player games no matter what else I've tried)

So what has your experience been and what should we do next? Are there some common rule changes that can extend the game play? Is it just time for us to go out and get an expansion? Is that even going to change this "Ultimate Strategy"? We want longer games that require more strategy in building our decks and we think it should somehow require you to get kingdom cards in order to get victory cards and win.

What do we do??

[JacquesTheBard]

Deggertsen, this is most certainly NOT the Ultimate Strategy, even in base dominion. Do you have Festival, Chapel, Library, Gardens, Workshop, Cellar, and Witch on the board? Possibly militia and councilroom? There are a lot of exciting games to play in base alone, to the point where other members of the forum will probably confuse you for a troll. Keep experimenting, and try to look at some of Stef's Dominion Academy posts. There's a lot of interesting choices to make when playing dominion. For crying out loud, Mine is a crucial card on the "first board" that everyone plays. Freaking Mine.

[Robz888]

http://dominionstrategy.com/big-money/

[Stealth Tomato]

This is a problem that will tend to occur anytime you play a game with only one group--the group starts getting stuck in strategies they're comfortable with and relatively good at. You need to play with different people to evolve your game and start developing more advanced strategies.

[sudgy]

There are a lot of exciting games to play in base alone, to the point where other members of the forum will probably confuse you for a troll.

Some people have trolled saying this...

There have been a lot of people who think this, but it's not the case.  There are basically four stages to learning Dominion strategy:

1. The noob stage, where people make mistakes and buy random action cards.
2. The Big Money stage, where people think the best strategy is buying just money and victory cards (and maybe one or two kingdom cards).  This is where you are.
3. The "intermediate" stage, where you realize some kingdom cards can compliment big money, or especially each other.
4. The "expert" stage, where you start utilizing kingdom cards in the best way possible and start building amazing decks such as engines, combo decks, etc.

Most people are in either stage 1 or 4 (4 has a very wide range of skill).  Reading the articles on the main site can help you through the stages a lot.

[deggertsen]

http://dominionstrategy.com/big-money/

That is EXACTLY what I needed to read. Thank you!

@sudgy. I think I am in the #3 stage, because I certainly do recognize that having some kingdom cards to compliment big money wins over big money. But I don't think I'm at stage 4 yet.

However, I still would like to know if there are rule variations out there that can make the game last longer. 14-17 turns seems WAY too short to really have a fun game... But of course I could be wrong...

Sorry for accidentally trolling.

[sudgy]

http://dominionstrategy.com/big-money/

That is EXACTLY what I needed to read. Thank you!

@sudgy. I think I am in the #3 stage, because I certainly do recognize that having some kingdom cards to compliment big money wins over big money. But I don't think I'm at stage 4 yet.

However, I still would like to know if there are rule variations out there that can make the game last longer. 14-17 turns seems WAY too short to really have a fun game... But of course I could be wrong...

The way to have a fun game is to try to get faster than 14-17 turns (which you usually can do).  At least I would say so.

[sudgy]

Also, when you have more complex strategies, the game lasts longer timewise.

[jsh357]

Also: add expansions.  Each one exponentially increases the replayability of the game.  If you're getting bored of the base cards, this is the best way to shake things up.

[LastFootnote]

There have been a lot of people who think this, but it's not the case.  There are basically four stages to learning Dominion strategy:

1. The noob stage, where people make mistakes and buy random action cards.
2. The Big Money stage, where people think the best strategy is buying just money and victory cards (and maybe one or two kingdom cards).  This is where you are.
3. The "intermediate" stage, where you realize some kingdom cards can compliment big money, or especially each other.
4. The "expert" stage, where you start utilizing kingdom cards in the best way possible and start building amazing decks such as engines, combo decks, etc.

I guess this "progression list" is worthwhile since a lot of people seem to have this exact experience, but it's worth noting that not everyone goes through stages 2 and 3 on their way to stage 4. Many players simply refine their strategies and become good at the game without going through a tedious "Buy Only Money" phase. It's the path I recommend if you can swing it.

[blueblimp]

I dunno. I think it's useful to go through a BM+X phase as long as you learn how to play it well along the way: which cards are good as the X, how to time greening in mirrors, how to time greening in non-mirrors. It's a smaller part of the game now than it was when there were fewer expansions, but it still matters sometimes.

[Awaclus]

You also might want to check out some of the YouTube videos by members of this community in the Dominion on YouTube subforum. Seeing someone really experienced play and explain the reasoning behind their choices has been pretty awesome for me, it makes you take into account things that otherwise wouldn't have crossed your mind.

[DStu]

http://dominionstrategy.com/big-money/

See also http://dominionstrategy.com/2012/07/30/building-the-first-game-engine/ on how just simple Village Smithy does not manage to beat BigMoney, but how you can improve your deck with the additional kingdom cards so that it eventually will.

[Jimmmmm]

I like that the OP doesn't simply say, "Your game is broken!" but asks for advice.

In my opinion, while Base is an okay game in its own right, once you've played with expansions, you'll never want to go back. Big Money is probably the most viable in Base only, so adding expansions will add a heap more workable strategies. While it may be best to get the expansions in order, if you specifically want a longer game may I recommend the Prosperity expansion. It add Colonies (Victory cards worth 10VP) and Platinums (Treasures worth $5), which definitely increase the length of an average game, as well as a bunch of other fun stuff.

[SCSN]

There are basically four stages to learning Dominion strategy:

1. The noob stage, where people make mistakes and buy random action cards.
2. The Big Money stage, where people think the best strategy is buying just money and victory cards (and maybe one or two kingdom cards).  This is where you are.
3. The "intermediate" stage, where you realize some kingdom cards can compliment big money, or especially each other.
4. The "expert" stage, where you start utilizing kingdom cards in the best way possible and start building amazing decks such as engines, combo decks, etc.

5. The "enlightenment" stage, where you realize you've been at stage 1 all along and all your skill boils down to not repeating some of the mistakes you've made before.

[Warfreak2]

I remember finding this site the first time, and the next game on Isotropic I just played Big Money, and won, with every Province I bought feeling like I had a super power. But it was clear that it wouldn't work much further up the leaderboard.

If 14-17 turns isn't long enough for you, add strong attacks to the game. If you're both playing Witch and Militia, the pace will slow down considerably; when you get some expansions, you'll see other attacks like Ambassador, Ghost Ship, Sea Hag and Knights, any of which can potentially double the length of a game.

[Awaclus]

I remember finding this site the first time, and the next game on Isotropic I just played Big Money, and won, with every Province I bought feeling like I had a super power. But it was clear that it wouldn't work much further up the leaderboard.

If 14-17 turns isn't long enough for you, add strong attacks to the game. If you're both playing Witch and Militia, the pace will slow down considerably; when you get some expansions, you'll see other attacks like Ambassador, Ghost Ship, Sea Hag and Knights, any of which can potentially double the length of a game.

Ghost Ship will square it!

[pingpongsam]

Always satisfying to win with zero treasures in your deck.

[LastFootnote]

I remember finding this site the first time, and the next game on Isotropic I just played Big Money, and won, with every Province I bought feeling like I had a super power. But it was clear that it wouldn't work much further up the leaderboard.

If 14-17 turns isn't long enough for you, add strong attacks to the game. If you're both playing Witch and Militia, the pace will slow down considerably; when you get some expansions, you'll see other attacks like Ambassador, Ghost Ship, Sea Hag and Knights, any of which can potentially double the length of a game.

Ghost Ship will square it!

So if your games lasted 10 minutes before, they'll now last 100 square minutes? What?

[flies]

Here's what I'd do to solve this problem.  First, I'd buy an expansion or two.  (I wouldn't go for intrigue or alchemy first, but that's another discussion!)

Next, I'd play some games where both players agree to try wacky things.  Try and look for card interactions and play for them even if they're not stronger than money decks.  You'll never learn to build complicated decks ("engines") if you don't explore.

[Awaclus]

I remember finding this site the first time, and the next game on Isotropic I just played Big Money, and won, with every Province I bought feeling like I had a super power. But it was clear that it wouldn't work much further up the leaderboard.

If 14-17 turns isn't long enough for you, add strong attacks to the game. If you're both playing Witch and Militia, the pace will slow down considerably; when you get some expansions, you'll see other attacks like Ambassador, Ghost Ship, Sea Hag and Knights, any of which can potentially double the length of a game.

Ghost Ship will square it!

So if your games lasted 10 minutes before, they'll now last 100 square minutes? What?

Yeah, that's right.

[Polk5440]

I am so glad you asked on the forum before giving up the game. 

You can read the other blog posts, articles on the forum, or watch some videos to get a flavor of what more advanced decks are like. This will make you think differently about the relatively boring First Game.

More advanced decks may take fewer turns, but time-wise can take longer (more decisions to make, more cards to play per turn). But Dominion really is a short game. 30 minutes at most with two players in person.

Really, it sounds like you are ready for an expansion or two!  For games with more turns, look at Prosperity. Seaside and Intrigue are good choices, as well. Even though I enjoy playing with all the expansions and Hinterlands is my favorite expansion, my friends and I get a lot of mileage out of games randomized from Dominion, Intrigue, and Prosperity only.

[LastFootnote]

Ghost Ship will square it!

So if your games lasted 10 minutes before, they'll now last 100 square minutes? What?

Yeah, that's right.

I don't know, dude. 100 square minutes is a pretty big area of squared time.

[Kirian]

Ghost Ship will square it!

So if your games lasted 10 minutes before, they'll now last 100 square minutes? What?

Yeah, that's right.

I don't know, dude. 100 square minutes is a pretty big area of squared time.

[WanderingWinder]

Ghost Ship will square it!

So if your games lasted 10 minutes before, they'll now last 100 square minutes? What?

Yeah, that's right.

I don't know, dude. 100 square minutes is a pretty big area of squared time.

No, that's "Time Squared"