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[Davio]

Is it a bug or a feature?

My opponent Processioned a Lighthouse.

Now I know, you get the "regular" bonus from say Wharf even though it's trashed and that you let Procession out to remind you of this, nothing new so far.

But Lighthouse says "while this is in play" with regards to the defense you get from it.
So when I doubted between playing my Sea Hag and another terminal, I chose Sea Hag and sure enough, my opponent did NOT get a Curse.

I guess Goko and I differ on what "in play" means...

[Watno]

It's a reported and acknowledged bug: http://forum.makingfun.com/showthread.php?4203-Bug-with-processioned-Lighthouse-protecting-from-attack

[silverspawn]

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

[GeoLib]

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

[silverspawn]

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

no, you're wrong, I'm 100% sure. I have my physical copy of seaside nearby... wait I'll quote it for you (not literal quote because I've the german version but i'll translate it)

"The game ends after the turn of a Player, in which one of the following to conditions has come to pass:
The Province Pile is empty ore
Any 3 piles from the supply are empty
The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"

[dondon151]

You are most definitely wrong about this one. The game end condition is only checked after the clean-up phase of a player's turn. If at that time, the condition is not met, then the game does not end.

[silverspawn]

You are most definitely wrong about this one. The game end condition is only checked after the clean-up phase of a player's turn. If at that time, the condition is not met, then the game does not end.

i quoted it from my seaside rulebook... it explicitely states that the game also ends when you use amb to refill one of the piles. So you're saying that the rulebook is wrong? How could that be? It can't be a translation error.

i don't have another source... i thought it my rulebook says so I could rely on that. Isn't that, you know, what it's for?

[GeoLib]

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

no, you're wrong, I'm 100% sure. I have my physical copy of seaside nearby... wait I'll quote it for you (not literal quote because I've the german version but i'll translate it)

"The game ends after the turn of a Player, in which one of the following to conditions has come to pass:
The Province Pile is empty ore
Any 3 piles from the supply are empty
The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"

I'm a little leery trusting a translated version because there have been so many errors. That does sound like something that is unlikely to have been added during translation though.

Hmmm...
I recall this being discussed previously, and the conclusion (either through a rulebook or Donald X. quote) was that refilling with amb did not end the game.
Ok. I just checked the English seaside rulebook and there's no mention of the three-pile rule at all.
Yeah, ok. I just checked the base dominion rules and the wording is definitely different than the rules you just quoted:

"The game ends at the end of any player’s turn when either:
1) the Supply pile of Province cards is empty or
2) any 3 Supply piles are empty."

So the conditions are checked at the end of the turn. I'm pretty sure the ambassador thing does not end the game then.

[silverspawn]

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

no, you're wrong, I'm 100% sure. I have my physical copy of seaside nearby... wait I'll quote it for you (not literal quote because I've the german version but i'll translate it)

"The game ends after the turn of a Player, in which one of the following to conditions has come to pass:
The Province Pile is empty ore
Any 3 piles from the supply are empty
The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"

I'm a little leery trusting a translated version because there have been so many errors. That does sound like something that is unlikely to have been added during translation though.

Hmmm...
I recall this being discussed previously, and the conclusion (either through a rulebook or Donald X. quote)
Ok. I just checked the English seaside rulebook and there's no mention of the three-pile rule at all.
Yeah, ok. I just checked the base dominion rules and the wording is definitely different than the rules you just quoted:

"The game ends at the end of any player’s turn when either:
1) the Supply pile of Province cards is empty or
2) any 3 Supply piles are empty."

So the conditions are checked at the end of the turn. I'm pretty sure the ambassador thing does not end the game then.

but my rulebook has this line:

The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"
original: Das Spiel endet auch, wenn einer der zunächst leeren Stapel (z.B. durch den Botschafter) im gleichen Zug wieder aufgefüllt wird.

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

[GeoLib]

i know this doesn't match the title, but while we're at it: if you emtpy a third pile in your turn, and then you return 2 of those cards to the supply with ambassador, the game doesnt end after that turn. that's also definitely a bug

Nope. That's how the rules are supposed to work. Too lazy to look up the relevant quote right now, but I'm fairly sure about this one.

no, you're wrong, I'm 100% sure. I have my physical copy of seaside nearby... wait I'll quote it for you (not literal quote because I've the german version but i'll translate it)

"The game ends after the turn of a Player, in which one of the following to conditions has come to pass:
The Province Pile is empty ore
Any 3 piles from the supply are empty
The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"

I'm a little leery trusting a translated version because there have been so many errors. That does sound like something that is unlikely to have been added during translation though.

Hmmm...
I recall this being discussed previously, and the conclusion (either through a rulebook or Donald X. quote)
Ok. I just checked the English seaside rulebook and there's no mention of the three-pile rule at all.
Yeah, ok. I just checked the base dominion rules and the wording is definitely different than the rules you just quoted:

"The game ends at the end of any player’s turn when either:
1) the Supply pile of Province cards is empty or
2) any 3 Supply piles are empty."

So the conditions are checked at the end of the turn. I'm pretty sure the ambassador thing does not end the game then.

but my rulebook has this line:

The game also ends, when one of the once empty piles (f.e. through the ambassador) is being refilled in the same turn"
original: Das Spiel endet auch, wenn einer der zunächst leeren Stapel (z.B. durch den Botschafter) im gleichen Zug wieder aufgefüllt wird.

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

I have no idea, but the line in question appears to be missing from any English rulebooks I can find, and those are the original source. Is this the German version of the seaside rulebook?

[Stealth Tomato]

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

Occasionally the rulebook is wrong, or something discovered/decided later causes them to update the rules.
The original rulebook is not the absolute and unchangeable Word of God. Particularly when it's been translated.

[florrat]

Here are the English Seaside rules: riograndegames.com/getFile.php?id=441 [downloads pdf immediately]

I can't find the line you say in there. Why would a translator add this? I have no idea, but translators have done the weirdest things with Dominion (if I recall correctly, the German translators have done other changes which they thought to be convenient but which were incredibly awkward).

But the question is: what is the right way to play this? Can anyone find a quote from Donald somewhere (or ask him)?

[silverspawn]

Is this the German version of the seaside rulebook?

yea, 6 pages, blue design, a nice cover on the front page.

Here are the English Seaside rules: riograndegames.com/getFile.php?id=441 [downloads pdf immediately]

I can't find the line you say in there. Why would a translator add this? I have no idea, but translators have done the weirdest things with Dominion (if I recall correctly, the German translators have done other changes which they thought to be convenient but which were incredibly awkward).

But the question is: what is the right way to play this? Can anyone find a quote from Donald somewhere (or ask him)?

well, since i'm the only one who knows the alternative rule, we can be pretty sure that the game doesn't end after all, and my rule book just got it wrong for whatever reason.

[GeoLib]

Is this the German version of the seaside rulebook?

yea, 6 pages, blue design, a nice cover on the front page.

Here are the English Seaside rules: riograndegames.com/getFile.php?id=441 [downloads pdf immediately]

I can't find the line you say in there. Why would a translator add this? I have no idea, but translators have done the weirdest things with Dominion (if I recall correctly, the German translators have done other changes which they thought to be convenient but which were incredibly awkward).

But the question is: what is the right way to play this? Can anyone find a quote from Donald somewhere (or ask him)?

well, since i'm the only one who knows the alternative rule, we can be pretty sure that the game doesn't end after all, and my rule book just got it wrong for whatever reason.

That is super weird that a translator would add that though. I really don't understand the impetus there. Who did they get to translate this stuff? My mom is an interpreter and translator and I've talked to her about it before. I'm pretty sure that you definitely don't just add your own random lines in there.

[markusin]

Didn't the German Translators also add something to the rules stating something along the lines of "buying happens during your buy phase. Gaining happens outside your buy phase"? It seems they try to be clever with their interpretation of the rules and feel they have the authority to add their own clarifications. Doesn't seem unreasonable given the history.

[GeoLib]

Didn't the German Translators also add something to the rules stating something along the lines of "buying happens during your buy phase. Gaining happens outside your buy phase"? It seems they try to be clever with their interpretation of the rules and feel they have the authority to add their own clarifications. Doesn't seem unreasonable given the history.

Well, it still seems unreasonable, just not unprecedented....

[markusin]

Didn't the German Translators also add something to the rules stating something along the lines of "buying happens during your buy phase. Gaining happens outside your buy phase"? It seems they try to be clever with their interpretation of the rules and feel they have the authority to add their own clarifications. Doesn't seem unreasonable given the history.

Well, it still seems unreasonable, just not unprecedented....

Ah yeah, that's what I meant to say. "Unprecedented" was the word I was looking for.

[lespeutere]

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

Occasionally the rulebook is wrong, or something discovered/decided later causes them to update the rules.
The original rulebook is not the absolute and unchangeable Word of God. Particularly when it's been translated.

If only it was occasionally, at least the German translations are full of mistakes.
@silverspawn: http://forum.dominionblog.de/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1338

[silverspawn]

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

Occasionally the rulebook is wrong, or something discovered/decided later causes them to update the rules.
The original rulebook is not the absolute and unchangeable Word of God. Particularly when it's been translated.

If only it was occasionally, at least the German translations are full of mistakes.
@silverspawn: http://forum.dominionblog.de/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1338

ok that's... extreme. wow.

[Stealth Tomato]

why on earth would they add this line to the german rulebook when it's not correct?

Occasionally the rulebook is wrong, or something discovered/decided later causes them to update the rules.
The original rulebook is not the absolute and unchangeable Word of God. Particularly when it's been translated.

If only it was occasionally, at least the German translations are full of mistakes.
@silverspawn: http://forum.dominionblog.de/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1338

I love Google Translate sometimes.

hermit
wrong:
[ ... ] and take thee a madman .
Correct:
[ ... ] and take thee a madman by madman stack.

[Jimmmmm]

I love Google Translate sometimes.

hermit
wrong:
[ ... ] and take thee a madman .
Correct:
[ ... ] and take thee a madman by madman stack.

Dominion: Flowering Time (Prosperity).

Also, Obsession (Possession).