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[Jimmmmm]

There's a bit more to the case on Jimm. I've noticed him trying to "keep the circle wide" as I am calling it now, something I think scum does. Scum, I've realized, really wants to keep as many suspects on the table as possible. This is why--maybe--Jimm jumped at my self-declared IC status to try and refute it (when it really wasn't necessary to refute, I mean obviously I was not and am not IC). He's done this one other time recently that I supposed I should try to dig up to prove my case.

Explain this for me. My first post after your claiming IC status was clarifying what you said because I initially misread your post. Do you disbelieve me on this?

Do you disagree with my second post? If someone supposedly misunderstood the setup and then immediately claims Town points for it, that looks to me like they might have misunderstood the setup specifically for the Town points. Compare that to e's believing that the JoAT gave scum a second NK. I don't think what Robz did was particularly scummy, but I maintain that immediately claiming IC status for it nullifies any Town points he would otherwise have received.

[Robz888]

Okay, I re-read you and you doing "keep the circle wide" was not as strong as I thought.

[WalrusMcFishSr]

Alright, let me post something. I spent rather more time yesterday in the Detroit International Airport than I would have preferred. So I'm feeling a little burned out.

So I realized that I hadn't posted much about Jimmmmm, other to say that I found him townier than not, and he's come up a few times now, so I did a quick reread. It's mostly a bunch of quick one-liner type posts, many of which are questions. He is quick to accuse Robz (however jokingly) and mcmc, which is interesting. It seems like scumhunting, but is it earnest or forced? I don't know much about his ordinary playstyle.

One thing that jumped out at me was the unvote. I remember I caught some flak in Game of Thrones for my early unvote on faust. But then I also revoted, which may have been the more significant thing there.

Part of the reason I decided to do this look into Ji5m just now is because of his recent defense of e, who is still my top scumread. That caused the conspiracy theory part of my brain to think about this: what if it's like Dynasty Warriors, where e (a traitor perhaps) is analogous to sudgy, and Ji5m is like theorel, and I am trying to inexpertly apply yuma's reasoning here.

I'm not sure I actually buy it though. Anyway I still feel viscerally scummier about e right now...if e flipped traitor well then I might start to believe myself more. But that's getting way too hypothetical.

So I can certainly see the scum angle. I did think it was interesting that Robz brought up Jimmmmm's activity, considering that his posts are pretty front-loaded to the first half of the game so far. I haven't felt that he has been nearly so active in the past couple days as he was earlier, and I don't think it's a great idea to put so much stock right now in posting frequency, considering it's been a crazy week for a lot of us. So IDK, maybe that means Robz feels scummy, maybe it just feels like Robz vs. Ji5m is just town vs. town...h5m.

PPE: Robz backs off a little. Interesting.

[Jimmmmm]

Walrus, bear in mind (or in case you missed my V/LA announcements) that I'm in Canada at the moment, and have been for 4-5 days. I'm doing my best to keep contributing, but it's really hard to dedicate time and effort at the moment.

[Robz888]

So I can certainly see the scum angle. I did think it was interesting that Robz brought up Jimmmmm's activity, considering that his posts are pretty front-loaded to the first half of the game so far. I haven't felt that he has been nearly so active in the past couple days as he was earlier, and I don't think it's a great idea to put so much stock right now in posting frequency, considering it's been a crazy week for a lot of us. So IDK, maybe that means Robz feels scummy, maybe it just feels like Robz vs. Ji5m is just town vs. town...h5m.

PPE: Robz backs off a little. Interesting.

I don't think level of activity is a scum indicator for me though the way it is for mcmc and might be for Jimm.

[Jimmmmm]

So I can certainly see the scum angle. I did think it was interesting that Robz brought up Jimmmmm's activity, considering that his posts are pretty front-loaded to the first half of the game so far. I haven't felt that he has been nearly so active in the past couple days as he was earlier, and I don't think it's a great idea to put so much stock right now in posting frequency, considering it's been a crazy week for a lot of us. So IDK, maybe that means Robz feels scummy, maybe it just feels like Robz vs. Ji5m is just town vs. town...h5m.

PPE: Robz backs off a little. Interesting.

I don't think level of activity is a scum indicator for me though the way it is for mcmc and might be for Jimm.

Don't get too caught up on scum v Town performances of mine from ages ago. Obviously there aren't really recent example either way for me, but I did realise I was getting a bit of a reputation for lurking, particularly when Town, which is why I went for a while without playing a game, and I'm doing my best to remedy that.

[yuma]

Your mod is back, thanks to TA for filling in!

[ashersky]

Your mod is back, thanks to TA for filling in!

Can we get a vote count?

[yuma]

Vote Count 1.8

Robz (1): Teproc
Jimmmmm (2): ashersky, Robz
2.7 (4): Walrus, mcmcsalot, Jorbles, Faust
ashersky (1): Voltaire
mcmcsalot (1): Jimmmmm
Morgrim (1): Morgrim

Not Voting (2): manda, 2.7

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day1 will end in ~ 3 days on December 4 at 10 pm forum time

[yuma]

Your mod is back, thanks to TA for filling in!

Can we get a vote count?

You don't even say "Hi" or "How was your Thanksgiving?"

No vote count for you!

[ashersky]

I'll vote: 2.7 at this point.  His "let me joke about my scummy behavior so it comes off as not scummy" thing, plus being in the IC's sights, is enough for now.

I'm back from the long holiday/weekend, so re-read and posts incoming.

[Morgrim7]

Hi Yuma!

[Teproc]

Just back from week-end as well, I'll do rereads tomorrow.

[2.71828.....]

Well this is fun. The first wagon I have ever had against me. L-2

[Morgrim7]

Well this is fun. The first wagon I have ever had against me. L-2

Actually, Its more like L-2.71828...

[2.71828.....]

Well this is fun. The first wagon I have ever had against me. L-2

ok. Either I have done a spectacular job convincing town that I am scum, or there is scum voting for me right now. I really don't like ashersky's pre-reread vote. Like that seems super scummy. Although all my jokes are after he went v/la, so I guess that is a fine knee-jerk reaction. My only concern is that I am certain someone voting for me right now is scum. They sense blood, and see an easy mislynch. I hope I don't make it too easy.

Everyone at least wait to lynch before the soft deadline. Too many people v/la and unable to express opinions. By the time everything comes out, I am sure we will find a better lynch.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

[ashersky]

(brief) summary of my summaries:
Jimmmmm- a slight scum read
mcmc- an uneasy feeling at the time of my post, made more scummy by the interactions after my post
robz- My first controversial "day pass."  His behavior could be town or scum, but I think it will be easier to find one of the two other scum than decipher whether the behavior is actually town or actually scum.
Ashersky- My second controversial "day pass."  Basically the same reason as Robz.
manda- New player I guess?  My first time playing with manda.  (as well as firsts mcmc, morgrim, teproc, jorbles, and walrus)  I have found manda's posts to have decent content, and I lean town here.
Morgrim- Need more content.  Nothing so far.  Other than a good laugh.  His brother is scummy for taking all the apples I would have had.
Walrus- Has been unable to post much, but from what he has I would say null to town.
Jorbles- I read as slightly scummy for what he had posted so far, but with an open mind because of Thanksgiving and the fact that I haven't played with him before.  More comments to follow-up on his reply later.  Not appropriate for this post.
Voltaire- I saved my tough reads for last.  I really don't know right now. 
Teproc- Lean Towny.

Now Faust asked me who I actually want to lynch, so I better answer that since I did not actually do that.  It is difficult, so I will put everyone in tiers.

Would lynch if we needed the vote- Jimmmmmm, mcmc, jorbles
Don't want to lynch but would if we needed the vote- Voltaire, Teproc, Walrus, Morgrim
Don't want to lynch- Robz, Ashersky, manda
Never lynch- Faust, 2.7

I know, that still doesn't answer the question, but it is getting somewhere.  I am not ready to actually vote for anyone yet.  Votes can be several different things:
1) RVS votes- usually very early in the game just to get things rolling, get some discussion, etc
2) Pressure votes- You specifically want more input from a person and so you vote for them.  You hope that at least one or two more people will join you to make it more serious but you do not really want to lynch them yet.
3) Wagon votes- Someone has a few votes on them, and you decide to vote to further whatever cause was created by the first non-RVS vote on that person.  So, for example, you may join a Pressure vote wagon (which makes your vote a combo of pressure/wagon) because you think that person really does need to be held accountable for what they said or they need to answer a specific question.  Wagon votes can also be used as a disguising technique for scum hoping to get an easy lynch.
4) "I actually think you are scum" votes- You have a read on someone, you say why you have that read on that person, and you vote for them.  You think they are scum and you want to eliminate scum.  so you vote.
5) "I think it will be easy to lynch you" votes- This category is exclusively for scum.  They gameplan who they want to target (a few different people maybe) and get a feel for the day and then slowly build up a wagon on that person.  Not all at once (scum are smarter than that), but gradually and consistently to deflect people from thinking that they themselves are scum

There may be more categories, but these will suffice.  It is a little too late for me to RVS vote, there is no one I can really see as a pressure vote person, I won't join the wagon on me, and I am not confident enough in my reads to really think that mcmc, jorbles, or jimmmmmm are actually scum.  And I am not scum so category 5 does not apply to me.  So I will withhold my vote until such a time as I deem appropriate.

So, this is the only real post of note from 2.7 during the long VLA lull for folks.  It's a big, giant bag of hedge.  I mean, read those reads, man.  HEDGE.

I actually like the second half of this though, with the different types of votes breakdown.  Well, I like the categories and stuff.  It's also a bunch of text that has nothing to do with the game, or scum hunting, so it is content for the sake of content, and therefore also scummy.

We need a lynch, and 2.7 is a good one.  Higher than average chance of flipping scum, good support including the IC.

Soft deadline is today, right?

[Jimmmmm]

It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.

This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.

Vote: Jorbles

PPE ash

[ashersky]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

[ashersky]

It's at this stage that I start to think about what kind of players actually turn out to be scum, and generally it's the quieter, non-controversial ones who you can't really build much of a Day 1 case on. With this in mind, my first suspect is Jorbles. He hasn't said anything particularly controversial, he's simply been around, ready to give an opinion when necessary without really putting himself out there on anything.

This may not be a super strong case, but I do think it makes him significantly more likely to actually be scum than e, so I'm going to see if there's any support there.

Vote: Jorbles

PPE ash

I guess I get your point, and I have no reason to think Jorbles isn't scum, but "significantly more likely" than 2.7?  That sounds like a stretch, to me.

I agree that there is probably at least one scum skating by in the quiet weeds.  Jorbles is a good mention.  Voltaire is awfully quiet for him, although he's VLA?

As for actual "cases" on D1, 2.7 is a good one.

[2.71828.....]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

yeah, I am working on my "scummy while town" meta so I can do scummy things when I am actually scum. (If robz can claim meta modification, I should be able to claim meta creation.) Well, actually to say "scummy as town" might be a stretch. Let's go with "jokes about things at times when it makes people think you might be scummy"

PPE: I wrote this before ashersky's last 3 posts.

[Jimmmmm]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?

[Jimmmmm]

yeah, I am working on my "scummy while town" meta so I can do scummy things when I am actually scum.

I really hope you're not serious, otherwise I'll just go ahead and policy vote you now.

If you are Town, please play for Town's win condition in THIS GAME.

[ashersky]

Hmm no I'm sold on the e "case", which seems to be mostly "he seems scummy". My impression is that his playstyle simple comes across as scummy because he doesn't or hasn't yet learned to use certain filters etc which strong vets use whether Town or scum. This doesn't make him scum, but certainly make him an easy lynch. At this stage I do not support this lynch.

Disagree.  Here are points against 2.7:

1)  Posting in this game very differently from previous town performances.
2)  In relation to #1, lots of joke posts.
3)  Lots of posts, zero useful content.
4)  So much hedging he could start a lawn care company.
5)  Immediately upon being called out for scummy behavior, he ramps up the scummy behavior in the guise of jokes to cover for scummy behavior.  (This is a classic scum trait, and especially one for newbie scum.)
6)  Not a great reaction to his wagon and pressure.

Hmm, that's much more helpful than anything else I could find. Other than joke posts, how has his posting been different?

The joke posts are a big part of it.  I think it's more what's lacking in his posts that are sticking out to me.  I recall 2.7 being incredibly thoughtful and useful right off the bat when he first started playing.  I think I was scum in a game with him being town and thinking "yikes, dangerous townie as a newbie" or something.  What was 2.7's first game, anyway?  I hope it isn't ongoing, and if it is, I am not intentionally discussing it.

I don't think he hedged so hard in his known town games, either.  Struck me as a decisive guy.