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[Jimmmmm]

Caught up.  Huge respect to the gambit the Jimmmmm/ Walrus scum team is pulling.  They absolutely deserve to win if the whole town falls for it.

Remember, this sets them up perfectly for two more days.  When I flip as the real RB, they can fight each other, ensuring whichever is the weaker gets lynched.  They get a mislynch and two NKs out of this

They must have know the setup was 4 PRs.  They needed to out the final one and ensure they could hardcore bus on D3.  It sets up the invisible 3rd partner (manda?) to sail through multiple days without having to make an impression, leaving them in a good spot in mylo/Lylo situations in the endgame.

Well played, scum.  You are caught out, but will probably succeed, given my terrible track record of being believed as the caught town PR.

This post is rubbish (in a game sense, not a personal sense). Scum "wins" a mislynch and 2 NKs for outing two of their three? Ridiculous. If you were Town you'd have self-voted already, quite happy to sacrifice yourself to catch two scum.

[Jimmmmm]

Ok.  Ash is correct in that if he is town, it will take us quite some time to lynch our way through scum.  But let's look at the situation

Lynch ash (town), town NK
8 alive 3 scum

lynch Jimmmmm, town NK
6 alive.  2 scum

Lynch Walrus, town NK
4 alive 1 scum

We will have to find the remaining scum in a 3v1 scenario.

Now, if only 1/3 of Jimmmmm, Walrus, Ashersky is scum, then the situation I describe above ends in a scum win.

Lynch Ash (town), town NK
8 alive, 3 scum

Lynch Jimmmm (or Walrus) (town), town NK
6 alive, 3 scum

Scum win

If ash is Town then both Walrus and I are scum. 100%. The situation you describe is equivalent to the second best case scenario, ie best case unless we lynch all three scum in the next three Days.

[ashersky]

Ok.  Ash is correct in that if he is town, it will take us quite some time to lynch our way through scum.  But let's look at the situation

Lynch ash (town), town NK
8 alive 3 scum

lynch Jimmmmm, town NK
6 alive.  2 scum

Lynch Walrus, town NK
4 alive 1 scum

We will have to find the remaining scum in a 3v1 scenario.

Now, if only 1/3 of Jimmmmm, Walrus, Ashersky is scum, then the situation I describe above ends in a scum win.

Lynch Ash (town), town NK
8 alive, 3 scum

Lynch Jimmmm (or Walrus) (town), town NK
6 alive, 3 scum

Scum win

If ash is Town then both Walrus and I are scum. 100%. The situation you describe is equivalent to the second best case scenario, ie best case unless we lynch all three scum in the next three Days.

Could you tell us your third?  That'd be helpful.

[Jimmmmm]

Could you tell us your third?  That'd be helpful.

Only if you tell us your other two.

[ashersky]

Obviously ash is being lynched now because of Walrus' counterclaim, but I feel like without that ash would win simply for having a crazy meta and people simply dismissing what he says as being "just ash".

Man, this is so scummy.  Sounds like really annoyed scum for not being able to overcome "crazy ash" meta problems.  It's like "thank god my partner counterclaimed to make sure we could win out over crazy meta considerations...

[ashersky]

Could you tell us your third?  That'd be helpful.

Only if you tell us your other two.

Scumslip?

[ashersky]

Obviously ash is being lynched now because of Walrus' counterclaim, but I feel like without that ash would win simply for having a crazy meta and people simply dismissing what he says as being "just ash".

Man, this is so scummy.  Sounds like really annoyed scum for not being able to overcome "crazy ash" meta problems.  It's like "thank god my partner counterclaimed to make sure we could win out over crazy meta considerations...

In fact, I can't let this go.  It is so much of a "my partner counterclaimed town so really, you need to believe us" argument that it's crazy.

Man, so so so so scummy.

[Jimmmmm]

Could you tell us your third?  That'd be helpful.

Only if you tell us your other two.

Scumslip?

Gee your sarcasm radar's off this game.

[Jimmmmm]

Obviously ash is being lynched now because of Walrus' counterclaim, but I feel like without that ash would win simply for having a crazy meta and people simply dismissing what he says as being "just ash".

Man, this is so scummy.  Sounds like really annoyed scum for not being able to overcome "crazy ash" meta problems.  It's like "thank god my partner counterclaimed to make sure we could win out over crazy meta considerations...

In fact, I can't let this go.  It is so much of a "my partner counterclaimed town so really, you need to believe us" argument that it's crazy.

Man, so so so so scummy.

Of course you can't let it go. You're running out of ways to try to lynch me instead of your partners NKing me.

[ashersky]

Caught up.  Huge respect to the gambit the Jimmmmm/ Walrus scum team is pulling.  They absolutely deserve to win if the whole town falls for it.

Remember, this sets them up perfectly for two more days.  When I flip as the real RB, they can fight each other, ensuring whichever is the weaker gets lynched.  They get a mislynch and two NKs out of this

They must have know the setup was 4 PRs.  They needed to out the final one and ensure they could hardcore bus on D3.  It sets up the invisible 3rd partner (manda?) to sail through multiple days without having to make an impression, leaving them in a good spot in mylo/Lylo situations in the endgame.

Well played, scum.  You are caught out, but will probably succeed, given my terrible track record of being believed as the caught town PR.

This post is rubbish (in a game sense, not a personal sense). Scum "wins" a mislynch and 2 NKs for outing two of their three? Ridiculous. If you were Town you'd have self-voted already, quite happy to sacrifice yourself to catch two scum.

This argument applies to you, no?  Why haven't you self-voted to catch the two scum?  Isn't it very possible walrus claims the same as his scum partner for town cred post flip?  If you think I'm scum, why not consider how easy it would be for a scum partner to counterclaim me for cred?

You are playing a scummy game, and everything in your play says you are doing and saying things only for your own best interest, not the town's.  That is pure scum play.  The late and convenient fake claim, your strained reasons for the targeting of me (such an easy frame), the odd, off attitude you've been taking all game and especially D2 when you decided to use this gambit (the wagon analysis set piece you used was probably your "go" signal).

Amazing play, man.  It's vintage asherscum, actually.  You've learned well.  But you know town!ash, and you know this is it.  The same way other vets who have played in many games with he just know my alignment, you know.

[Jimmmmm]

Caught up.  Huge respect to the gambit the Jimmmmm/ Walrus scum team is pulling.  They absolutely deserve to win if the whole town falls for it.

Remember, this sets them up perfectly for two more days.  When I flip as the real RB, they can fight each other, ensuring whichever is the weaker gets lynched.  They get a mislynch and two NKs out of this

They must have know the setup was 4 PRs.  They needed to out the final one and ensure they could hardcore bus on D3.  It sets up the invisible 3rd partner (manda?) to sail through multiple days without having to make an impression, leaving them in a good spot in mylo/Lylo situations in the endgame.

Well played, scum.  You are caught out, but will probably succeed, given my terrible track record of being believed as the caught town PR.

This post is rubbish (in a game sense, not a personal sense). Scum "wins" a mislynch and 2 NKs for outing two of their three? Ridiculous. If you were Town you'd have self-voted already, quite happy to sacrifice yourself to catch two scum.

This argument applies to you, no?

No.

Why haven't you self-voted to catch the two scum?  Isn't it very possible walrus claims the same as his scum partner for town cred post flip?  If you think I'm scum, why not consider how easy it would be for a scum partner to counterclaim me for cred?

How often have you seen me self-vote? If I know anything about Town ash, it's that he'll gladly sacrifice himself if it would catch two scum, to make a point as much as anything else. Are you suggesting that as a Cop with a guilty result and someone who has counterclaimed the confirmed scum I would be happy to lynch myself? What exactly are you basing that on?

You are playing a scummy game, and everything in your play says you are doing and saying things only for your own best interest, not the town's.  That is pure scum play.

This is one of many things you've said without giving any sort of reason. What exactly has I done for my own interest instead of the Town's? I successfully caught scum Night 1, put the focus on you Day 2, asked for opinions on you to try to find your partners, and then claimed. Are you suggesting that claiming immediately before getting opinions would be more pro-Town? I strongly disagree.

The late and convenient fake claim, your strained reasons for the targeting of me (such an easy frame), the odd, off attitude you've been taking all game and especially D2 when you decided to use this gambit (the wagon analysis set piece you used was probably your "go" signal).

What off attitude? Explain yourself.

Amazing play, man.  It's vintage asherscum, actually.  You've learned well.  But you know town!ash, and you know this is it.  The same way other vets who have played in many games with he just know my alignment, you know.

You're really suggesting that outing oneself and one's teammate is amazing scum play?

[ashersky]

iPad posting so NK fancy quotes.

You and walrus are getting away with it.  That makes it amazing. The fact that you ask in such a smarmy way confirms that you know you are pulling off what will go down as the greatest scum gambit in f.ds history.

Think about it.  When I flip town RB, walrus becomes suspect #1.  But by then, you taken out the tracker and the Roleblocker, killed off a VT, and probably the Bodyguard tonight.  That leaves just the IC vs. a full scum team.

Day 3 is spent discussing Walrus, ending (I hope!) in his lynch.  But what about scum partner Jimmmmm?  What about the anonymous third partner?  You are still smooth sailing, and killing IZc on N3 takes out your only real opposition.

It's 5 vs 3 on D3.  It's 4 vs 2 on D4.  That is pretty amazing.  Even if you can't rogue your way out of a lynch on D4, it's mylo on D5.  If you do argue your way out of a lynch on D4 (and you laid out that foundation today with the "let scum live so we can find the partner" speech -- that was never meant for me, as town, it was meant for you on a future day), it's a scum win.

You are playing an awesome scum game.  Like I've said, this is reminiscent of LOTR1 dragon Jimmmmm.  Just masterful.  It's the "so crazy, no way scum do it" defense.

[ashersky]

As for your scummy behavior and self-serving attitude, I'm not going to go quote all your posts for you.

Just do a Ctrl-F for "Post by: Jimmmmm".

[ashersky]

On self-votes, I don't know if you have.  But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote.  If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?

[Jimmmmm]

iPad posting so NK fancy quotes.

You and walrus are getting away with it.  That makes it amazing. The fact that you ask in such a smarmy way confirms that you know you are pulling off what will go down as the greatest scum gambit in f.ds history.

Think about it.  When I flip town RB, walrus becomes suspect #1.  But by then, you taken out the tracker and the Roleblocker, killed off a VT, and probably the Bodyguard tonight.  That leaves just the IC vs. a full scum team.

That's ridiculous. If you flipped Town, Walrus wouldn't be become "Suspect #1". He would be confirmed scum. So would I. We would be the next two lynches, 100%.

Day 3 is spent discussing Walrus, ending (I hope!) in his lynch.  But what about scum partner Jimmmmm?  What about the anonymous third partner?  You are still smooth sailing, and killing IZc on N3 takes out your only real opposition.

It's 5 vs 3 on D3.  It's 4 vs 2 on D4.  That is pretty amazing.  Even if you can't rogue your way out of a lynch on D4, it's mylo on D5.  If you do argue your way out of a lynch on D4 (and you laid out that foundation today with the "let scum live so we can find the partner" speech -- that was never meant for me, as town, it was meant for you on a future day), it's a scum win.

Of course I wouldn't "rogue my way out of a lynch on D4". If you flip Town I am confirmed scum. There's no getting out of that.

It's currently 7 v 3. Fast forward 3 Days. Unless we (Town) have won by then, the best we can hope for is 3 v 1. That's with two correct lynches and one mislynch. That's right. Mylo is only one mislynch away already. You really think if Walrus and I were scum together the only way we thought we could force one single mislynch in 3 Days is to confirm both of us as scum? You really think a scum play that outs two out of the three scum is masterful play? Of course you don't, you're way smarter than that.

You are playing an awesome scum game.  Like I've said, this is reminiscent of LOTR1 dragon Jimmmmm.  Just masterful.  It's the "so crazy, no way scum do it" defense.

The play you're describing is so stupid that I'm slightly offended that you think others will believe I'm that obtuse.

[Jimmmmm]

On self-votes, I don't know if you have.  But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote.  If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?

Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.

[Jimmmmm]

As for your scummy behavior and self-serving attitude, I'm not going to go quote all your posts for you.

Refusing to even put in the effort to back up what you're saying? If you've given up why are you still posting?

[ashersky]

As for your scummy behavior and self-serving attitude, I'm not going to go quote all your posts for you.

Refusing to even put in the effort to back up what you're saying? If you've given up why are you still posting?

As mention, I'm on mobile.  I believe others can back up your different attitude this game.  It's been discussed.

On self-votes, I don't know if you have.  But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote.  If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?

Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.

You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!

[Jimmmmm]

You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!

Nope. You're scum. I'm a Cop. You're caught.

[ashersky]

I believe you both would have been POE candidates today.  You were both already under pressure early in the game.  You had to try something, and this fake claim plan was it.  It is awesome.  Ballsy.  Bravo for trying.

Getting caught out on a fake claim is part of fake claiming.  You don't ever expect to survive it.  So getting 3 guaranteed town kills in exchange for losing possibly two of three scum partners in the mid game is acceptable.

You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town.  Misunderstood results, role, etc.  Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.

[ashersky]

You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!

Nope. You're scum. I'm a Cop. You're caught.

That's a lie.  Just like when I "caught" mcmc in Mean Girls.  Just like when I was "caught" at the end of Hydras.

That's a scum lie.

[Jimmmmm]

On self-votes, I don't know if you have.  But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote.  If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?

Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.

You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!

I mean, I said that if you were Town what you would do is self-vote knowing that it will catch two scum. That's your Town meta.
You said that I said that optimal play is for a PR to self-vote. That's just a bold-face lie.

[Jimmmmm]

I believe you both would have been POE candidates today.  You were both already under pressure early in the game.  You had to try something, and this fake claim plan was it.  It is awesome.  Ballsy.  Bravo for trying.

Getting caught out on a fake claim is part of fake claiming.  You don't ever expect to survive it.  So getting 3 guaranteed town kills in exchange for losing possibly two of three scum partners in the mid game is acceptable.

You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town.  Misunderstood results, role, etc.  Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.

So you're saying that me/Walrus/X thought we were so screwed that we would be the next three lynches?

[ashersky]

On self-votes, I don't know if you have.  But your argument, not mine, was that optimal town play was for the town PR to self-vote.  If that's your argument, why aren't you doing it as a "town pr"?

Sigh. I guess there's no point asking you to stop misrepresenting me.

You are misrepresenting ME by getting me mislynched through your gambit!

I mean, I said that if you were Town what you would do is self-vote knowing that it will catch two scum. That's your Town meta.
You said that I said that optimal play is for a PR to self-vote. That's just a bold-face lie.

Go read your post again. You said self lyching catches two scum. Is that not optimal?  I made that leapt of logic from your post. 

Of course, you don't actually think catching two scum is optimal, because you are scum.

[Jimmmmm]

You could argue that you are town, even when I flip town.  Misunderstood results, role, etc.  Plenty of opportunities for misdirection, as you'll get to live two more days.

Nope. I've double, triple, quadruple checked my result PM. It mentions your name, and the word "Goon" in bold without negation.

If you are Town, I am scum. I'll put that on the record:

If ashersky flips Town I will self-vote immediately the next Day and never post in this game again.