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[Archetype]

I've been thinking of a way to do Russian Roulette-ish mechanic in Mafia. Here's what I've come up with:

9 Players
2 Mafia
7 Vanilla Townies

Old Mechanics:
- Mafia have night chat
- Regular plurality rules for lynching
- If deadline is reached without a lynch consensus, the day ends in a no lynch

New Mechanics:
- Each Townie is holding a gun to their head. At the beginning of the game, each gun's status is Empty.
- Instead of a factional kill, the Mafia have a factional "bullet". Each night they may target a Townie to put a bullet into their gun. This changes the gun's status to Loaded.
- Each night, a Townie has 2 choices: Fire The Gun or Bow Out...
...If they fire a Loaded gun, they die and their alignment flips the following day
...If they fire an Empty gun, nothing happens
...If they bow out with a Loaded gun, nothing happens
...If they bow out with an Empty gun, they become Hated and take one less vote to lynch.
- Hated-ness stacks and lasts for the entirety of the game. Players are never notified if they are hated or how much so.
- If, at the beginning of any given day, a player is hated more than or equal to the number of votes required to lynch, they will die.

Thoughts? If people like it well enough, I'll run it under Invented-Open.

[A Drowned Kernel]

arch: any thoughts yet on tweaks to the super mario setup?

[yuma]

I've been thinking of a way to do Russian Roulette-ish mechanic in Mafia. Here's what I've come up with:

9 Players
2 Mafia
7 Vanilla Townies

Old Mechanics:
- Mafia have night chat
- Regular plurality rules for lynching
- If deadline is reached without a lynch consensus, the day ends in a no lynch

New Mechanics:
- Each Townie is holding a gun to their head. At the beginning of the game, each gun's status is Empty.
- Instead of a factional kill, the Mafia have a factional "bullet". Each night they may target a Townie to put a bullet into their gun. This changes the gun's status to Loaded.
- Each night, a Townie has 2 choices: Fire The Gun or Bow Out...
...If they fire a Loaded gun, they die and their alignment flips the following day
...If they fire an Empty gun, nothing happens
...If they bow out with a Loaded gun, nothing happens
...If they bow out with an Empty gun, they become Hated and take one less vote to lynch.
- Hated-ness stacks and lasts for the entirety of the game. Players are never notified if they are hated or how much so.
- If, at the beginning of any given day, a player is hated more than or equal to the number of votes required to lynch, they will die.

Thoughts? If people like it well enough, I'll run it under Invented-Open.

I haven't looked at it in depth, but if it does work this looks ideal for a Blitz (or semi-blitz) game. Maybe consider it for that?

[Voltaire]

At first blush it looks really cool. It'd need to be simulated for balance, but it's interesting enough I'd love to play it.

[Axxle]

I'm thinking that townies can rig it pretty easily. If they always bow out they can have 5 lynches without allowing mafia to kill anyone or get anyone within range to auto lynch them.

[liopoil]

Axxle: after two nights of bowing out and two town lynches, scum can essentially force a win. the optimal strategy is likely a weighted random for each townie.

[scott_pilgrim]

At first blush it looks really cool. It'd need to be simulated for balance, but it's interesting enough I'd love to play it.

Is there a mafia simulator online somewhere/how do people normally simulate games?


Also, I really like the mechanic, Archetype!  It looks like a really fun and interesting game.

[Axxle]

Axxle: after two nights of bowing out and two town lynches, scum can essentially force a win. the optimal strategy is likely a weighted random for each townie.

Whoops. I forgot how math works.

[Voltaire]

At first blush it looks really cool. It'd need to be simulated for balance, but it's interesting enough I'd love to play it.

Is there a mafia simulator online somewhere/how do people normally simulate games?

I fire up a spreadsheet and use random.org to decide lynches/NKs. As the days progress, I make sure massclaim, POE, etc. are accounted for if they're an obvious strategy. Do that about 10 times, I've usually caught if anything's broken.*

*I've only ever had to do this twice 

[ashersky]

I think the easier way to game it is to take out all luck and always pull the trigger.  Then you get one NK a night, helps POE for lynches, and it's just a vanilla game.  Not fun, I know, but to me seems like the best method.

[scott_pilgrim]

At first blush it looks really cool. It'd need to be simulated for balance, but it's interesting enough I'd love to play it.

Is there a mafia simulator online somewhere/how do people normally simulate games?

I fire up a spreadsheet and use random.org to decide lynches/NKs. As the days progress, I make sure massclaim, POE, etc. are accounted for if they're an obvious strategy. Do that about 10 times, I've usually caught if anything's broken.*

*I've only ever had to do this twice 

Okay, I was wondering because this is also how I simulated my set up for ~10 games or so, but I wasn't sure that such a small number of games would give meaningful results.  When I had tested I only had 1 town win, I've changed stuff since then to make it easier for town, but I guess the point of simulations is more just to look for broken strategies, and not to perfectly balance your game for you (I think scum generally has an advantage in simulations because of the random lynches*).

*Actually, maybe you could account for that using the stats: Take the average of f(D)/p for all days D of all mafia games we've played, where p is the percentage of living players that are town, and f(D)=1 if scum was lynched that day and 0 if not; then you can use that result, times the percentage of players that are town in your current game simulation, as the likelihood that scum will be lynched.  Does that work?  Seems too easy...but maybe something like that could give more accurate results.

[Archetype]

Semi-blitz would probably be best.

Hm. What if scum could load multiple bullets? Maybe, 2? Or maybe they can load as many guns as they want...but become hated for each one over 1? That would certainly not make everyone shoot themselves each night and swallow the single nightkill.

Another possibility is to give scum a pool of X bullets. They can load as many guns as they want with them, but once they're gone, they're gone for good.

[liopoil]

The best way to simulate is to write a script to run it millions of times in a second. I did this as scum in toy story to find my best choice to nightkill, and it sort  of worked... toy story was more complex though than this. You guys have only looked at the extreme strategies. it's possible that ash's is the best, but more likely the best is somewhere in between.

[ashersky]

The best way to simulate is to write a script to run it millions of times in a second. I did this as scum in toy story to find my best choice to nightkill, and it sort  of worked... toy story was more complex though than this. You guys have only looked at the extreme strategies. it's possible that ash's is the best, but more likely the best is somewhere in between.

Optimal is probably somewhere in between, for sure.  "Best" though probably has to take into consideration ease of doing/figuring out, which would be my suggestions.  I like Arch's ideas for fixes.

[Axxle]

PSA, drunk mafia: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11269.0

[A Drowned Kernel]

PSA, drunk mafia: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=11269.0

Is that an advertisement or a warning?

[Axxle]

probably.

[Dsell]

Sign up for drunk mafia! It'll be my first mafia game in seven months!

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hi. I'm interested in running a newbie-friendly/newbie-mod-friendly C9++ setup with a James Bond theme and I could use an experienced co-mod to help me out. I do have a couple dumb questions though. I would assume alignment is determined before power roles are assigned. But how do you determine who is scum and who receives power roles? And how/where do you roll?

[Archetype]

Hi. I'm interested in running a newbie-friendly/newbie-mod-friendly C9++ setup with a James Bond theme and I could use an experienced co-mod to help me out. I do have a couple dumb questions though. I would assume alignment is determined before power roles are assigned. But how do you determine who is scum and who receives power roles? And how/where do you roll?

You can use random.org to determine who gets what role and the game's setup.

I could help co-mod if you get no other takers.

[liopoil]

If someone below me in the queue is ready they can jump me. I hope to be ready to go... sometime soonish. eventually.

So, summer vacation starts soon for me and I may finally be able to get this together. Until then, keep skipping me

[Teproc]

I'm probably going to open my asher9++ game next week, Monday most likely.

Theme will be Homeland by the way, unless someone has a cool idea with that, since here it will be minor.

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hi. I'm interested in running a newbie-friendly/newbie-mod-friendly C9++ setup with a James Bond theme and I could use an experienced co-mod to help me out. I do have a couple dumb questions though. I would assume alignment is determined before power roles are assigned. But how do you determine who is scum and who receives power roles? And how/where do you roll?

You can use random.org to determine who gets what role and the game's setup.

I could help co-mod if you get no other takers.

Thanks Teproc! I guess I should get started on flavor then.

[Teproc]

Hi. I'm interested in running a newbie-friendly/newbie-mod-friendly C9++ setup with a James Bond theme and I could use an experienced co-mod to help me out. I do have a couple dumb questions though. I would assume alignment is determined before power roles are assigned. But how do you determine who is scum and who receives power roles? And how/where do you roll?

You can use random.org to determine who gets what role and the game's setup.

I could help co-mod if you get no other takers.

Thanks Teproc! I guess I should get started on flavor then.

While I appreciate the thanks, Archeytpe was the one who offered to co-mod (although I could as well as long as I'm not running a game myself at that point).

[AndrewisFTTW]

Hi. I'm interested in running a newbie-friendly/newbie-mod-friendly C9++ setup with a James Bond theme and I could use an experienced co-mod to help me out. I do have a couple dumb questions though. I would assume alignment is determined before power roles are assigned. But how do you determine who is scum and who receives power roles? And how/where do you roll?

You can use random.org to determine who gets what role and the game's setup.

I could help co-mod if you get no other takers.

Thanks Teproc! I guess I should get started on flavor then.

While I appreciate the thanks, Archeytpe was the one who offered to co-mod (although I could as well as long as I'm not running a game myself at that point).

Wow. How'd I manage to screw that up? Thank you Archetype! If I make this simple of a mistake, just think of all the mistakes I'll make as a full mod!